Anyone who believes anything the GOP says these days is dumber than a sack of rocks.

I seriously wish they would get those death panels up and running and process about 29% of the population into cat food.

Great thread, 726.

About the only aspect of Obamacare I supported was the cuts to Medicare - they desperately need to happen. The problem lied in Obama and the DNC lying their asses off proclaiming they were going to actually improve Medicare while simultaneously cutting a half a trillion in funding for it.

Nevertheless, the GOP's sudden love for the program is partisan bullshit at its finest.

JEFFJ

The only change to Medicare was to eliminate the 20% rake of the top by insurance companies 'administering' Medicare Advantage - the GOP's 'privatizing' of Medicare. $.20 of every premium dollar NOT going to provide care.

Compare that to 2-3% for regular Medicare 'administration' and you can see the level of waste in Medicare Advantage.

AU,

The problem not talked about is the fact that at current medicare reimbursement rates, ALL services are provided at a loss. Cutting the rate of reimbursement even further was a disaster in the making.

Granted, Medicare costs are sky-rocketing out-of-control. Personally, I think the only solution that makes sense is to raise the age of eligibility, particularly in light of a population bulge that is primed to start drawing benies en masse.

JEFFJ

There has been talk of moving away from 'fee for service' that only encourages more use of more procedures and tests. "Results based fees", i.e. a 'lump sum' to treat various treatable illnesses will leave more in the pockets of providers for actually getting people well.

Anyone who believes anything the GOP says these days is dumber than a sack of rocks.
I seriously wish they would get those death panels up and running and process about 29% of the population into cat food.

#1 | POSTED BY AXE AT 2010-02-17 06:02 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Wow. Adolfe Axe Hitler Speaks his mind. Well we all know where you stand. The true leftwing example of tolerance

Universal Single Payer, it is coming. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but it is coming.

As the decades(?) old fleecing by the capitalists remains in [beyond and in both directions] full effect, the Federal government must provide for the general welfare of its people.

...or allow them and it to be over-run.

("it" means the three documents that together make up the idea of America.)

Nobody should be eligible for Medicare until at least age 70, then we need to gradually ratchet up that number over time. Either that, or we go bankrupt.

Any liberal who thinks we should move health care under the federal government because it would be cheaper is so stupid, you should ignore everything else that spills out of his piehole. We don't have these towering deficits going out ad infinitum because Medicare is able to contain costs; it's the opposite.

"Any liberal who thinks we should move health care under the federal government because it would be cheaper is so stupid, you should ignore everything else that spills out of his piehole."

Don't tell RiR now, but we already have 40% of the insured covered by a single-payer, government plan. And --generally speaking --- that's the 40% that don't complain about their health care costs.

"We don't have these towering deficits going out ad infinitum because Medicare is able to contain costs; it's the opposite."

Typical Republican. Underfund something to the point of destruction, and then point to the destruction as proof it was no good in the first place. In the last decade, health costs for workers have risen 131% while inflation rose 32%. And in that time, Medicare rates rose...ZERO. And up until a year or so ago, Medicare was a cash cow, taking in more than it paid out. It's only after a decade of refusal to impose sensible rates that it's in serious trouble.

"Personally, I think the only solution that makes sense is to raise the age of eligibility?

That is one way to do it but the poor people who are then left out will be trying to buy health care insurance at an age that makes it exorbidantly expensive.
Last night this guy Sassi with Wellpoint made the argument that the reason his company is raising rates so dramatically was due to younger, healthier people opting to not buy insurance leaving only the older folks who require more health care services to pay higher rates.
This illustrated what is happening with Medicare, by excluding younger, healthier people we create the worst risk pool possible and give the insurance companies the best risk pool possible.
The insurance companies basicly tell us...hey give us your young, healthy people and we'll insure them and make a profit until they become elderly or disabled, then you taxpayers can take care of them. Great for insurance companies not so great for taxpayers.

How do you know they were "lying their asses off"?

I think that it's certainly possible to streamline a program, such that it is more efficient while less expensive, both at the same time. Isn't that what you cons are constantly railing should be done? And, isn't that what everyone should expect? Apparently, for you to acknowledge that it's possible that a Dem plan could be trying to cut costs, while also trying to make something better, wouldn't fit in with your cute partisan talking point.

Typical Republican. Underfund something to the point of destruction, and then point to the destruction as proof it was no good in the first place.

Underfund? Medicare, Medicaid and CHIP account for 20% of the federal budget, or $600 billion annually. How much more "underfunding" can we afford?

What percentage of the budget does Medicare need to be before it is not "underfunded?"

Ryan's district in Wisconsin is more purple that red or blue. One relatively strong Democratic candidate and he could join the laid off workers from Janesville's shuttered GM plant for breakfast at the local coffee shop.

"staggering" is actually an understatement.

Criminal would be more accurate.

Krugman is a wingding.

Nobody should be eligible for Medicare until at least age 70, then we need to gradually ratchet up that number over time. Either that, or we go bankrupt.
Any liberal who thinks we should move health care under the federal government because it would be cheaper is so stupid, you should ignore everything else that spills out of his piehole. We don't have these towering deficits going out ad infinitum because Medicare is able to contain costs; it's the opposite.

#9 | POSTED BY RIGHTISRIGHT

Open your fucking pie hole when you can also provide solutions for affordable gap coverage without denial and also solutions to cut the trillion dollar annual defense budget..

"Nobody should be eligible for Medicare until at least age 70"

Cuz we know they will be bankrupt trying to buy health insurance by then. Try to buy health insurance at age 67 and then get back to me about what a great idea this is RisR. What a fucking idiot.

"Give me more free stuff! Bankrupt the country if we have to!"

Selfish bastards.

"Give me more free stuff! Bankrupt the country if we have to!"

Selfish bastards.

Signed,

Corporate/Wealthiest Americans. THANKS!

"Give me more free stuff! Bankrupt the country if we have to!"

Selfish bastards.
#19 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-02-18 11:37 PM

The artificial health insurance costs are staggering. The actual ones are worse.

100% regulated universal health care is the cheapest method, and we've got a lot of demand already. A win/win.. other than for those "entities" competing with such incredible overhead that they pay billions to their executives in bonus alone.

If the "industry" wants to compete they need to reform. Since that won't happen they need to end.

Open your fucking pie hole when you can also provide solutions for affordable gap coverage without denial and also solutions to cut the trillion dollar annual defense budget..

#17 | POSTED BY LEGIO AT 2010-02-18 08:58 PM

So true. I laughed heartily today at Michael Barone's column entitled:

"IF DEMOCRATS FALL, GOP NEEDS A PLAN"

Hilarious, no?

Repug plan during Carter, Clinton and now Obama is to put politics above the needs and care of American citizens and attack dems at all costs and for all reasons until they fail.....

As spud points out:

Typical Republican. Underfund something to the point of destruction, and then point to the destruction as proof it was no good in the first place.

#10 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2010-02-18 05:19 PM

"Smaller govt" for repugs seems to mean doing away with anything that would actually benefit working Americans, and give unlimited funding to the military/pentagon and giant, global oil/war corporations........

Krugman is a wingding.

#16 | POSTED BY SOMOCO AT 2010-02-18 08:52 PM

Great argument, way to dispell all of Krugman's points...!!

Oh, wait, that was just namecalling, eh?

Well, at least Krugman WARNED everyone about the what would result from repug policies, BEFORE they drove the economy off a cliff.

Course, they just called him a wingding then too, eh?

There has been talk of moving away from 'fee for service' that only encourages more use of more procedures and tests. "Results based fees", i.e. a 'lump sum' to treat various treatable illnesses will leave more in the pockets of providers for actually getting people well.

#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-02-17 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Medicare did this in 1983. It's called Diagnosis Related Groups.

I can see you're right on top of things, as usual.

Can anyone really expect a Rethuglican to do anything else?

Well actually we can and should, after all we still have Ron Paul.

So is this country REALLY going to put the same a-holes that drove this country into a ditch during the Bush/Cheney years BACK into power?

Really? I have just laughed off all the whining and bitching as sour grapes knowing that the country wouldn't really let those idiots within shouting distance of power again anytime soon - but more and more I am seeing signs that this could ACTUALLY happen?

God help us.

Lump sum? Results based fees? Like NCLB? Thought libbies hated those ideas?

You can't have results based fees when the situation is out of the doctors control. How do you stop the fat fuck from eating himself to death? How do you stop the smoker from lighting up a cancer stick? How do get a libtard to think logically?

These things are out of the doctors control and his renumeration cannot be based on the actions of others determined to cause harm to themselves.

Like most things, this government program has been warped into something it was not meant to be. And as usual, DANNI spouts off about the poor. Someone mentioned death panels? Can we start with the poor? We sure would save the country a lot of money.

Speaking of Medicare:

"Premiums jump 14 percent on Medicare private plans"

"A study to be released Friday by a major consulting firm found that premiums for Medicare Advantage plans offering medical and prescription drug coverage jumped 14.2 percent on average in 2010, after an increase of only 5.2 percent the previous year."

"The AP also somehow failed to note that the American Association Of Retired Persons, the AARP is one of the main if not the major provider of these supplemental Medicare insurance programs."

Why is it that rightwingers who were so eager to bankrupt the country under GWB/Cheney with needless wars, tax cuts for rich, and out of control spending, get so upset when the Dems in good faith try to clean up the mess?

Oh. That's right. Rightwingers are hypocrites and only concerned with their own narrow partisan self interest.

You can't have results based fees when the situation is out of the doctors control. How do you stop the fat fuck from eating himself to death? How do you stop the smoker from lighting up a cancer stick? How do get a libtard to think logically?

These things are out of the doctors control and his renumeration cannot be based on the actions of others determined to cause harm to themselves.

#27 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-19 12:48 PM | Reply

Sir, please look to the health care system in England! Doctors get bonuses for educating patients and helping them be healthier; lose weight, stop smoking, stop drinking, get preventative care, or lowering blood pressure...to name a few! The results are healthier people that are less likely to develop acute or chronic conditions and illnesses. No, not every patient will listen or take action but some will.

You would be a fool not to admit that when your doctor tells you "if you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to die!" you are more likely to listen!

People can be educated, I even hold out hope that you can be educated. You could learn what is wrong with the current system and why it is in a state of decline in both the quality of care and the number of people it serves.

ElCid has a partisan interest in denying the need for healthcare reform in America. Just like all GOPhers.

"The AP also somehow failed to note that the American Association Of Retired Persons, the AARP is one of the main if not the major provider of these supplemental Medicare insurance programs."

Yeah, the AARP sold out, bigtime. To the AARP, seniors are a commodity, auctioned off to the for-profit insurance brokers.

That's the exact same thing everyone's employer who offers them health care does, by the way.

That's the exact same thing everyone's employer who offers them health care does, by the way.

they shop for the best deal.

so?

You would be a fool not to admit that when your doctor tells you "if you keep doing what you are doing, you are going to die!" you are more likely to listen!

are you saying that doctors here aren't advising patients of this? we need to pay them a bonus to tell people to live better lifestyles?

ElCid has a partisan interest in denying the need for healthcare reform in America. Just like all GOPhers.

there seems to be a partisan interest in accusing people of "denying the need for healthcare reform in America" also.

30 to 45 million American currently do not have access to affordable Health Insurance. There is nothing "partisan" about that reality. The only partisan gain to be made on the issue involves denying the reality and the need to address it. Which, shock of shocks, is what the GOP has been doing ever since President Obama set out to address the problem.

30 to 45 million American currently do not have access to affordable Health Insurance

"do not have access?" strike one

#36 | Posted by moder8

How many of those 30 to 45 million are between jobs, under 20, illegal, or children under 18? I believe the correct number is somewhere closer to 17 mil, but I think that may be a little inflated as well.

It's not the government's job to prevent hardship. The Constitution doesn't say to "provide for the general welfare" it says to "promote the general welfare". Huge difference.

Eb, the fact is, President Obama is trying to enact meaningful healthcare reform. The GOP is fighting him tooth and nail.

Cuz we know they will be bankrupt trying to buy health insurance by then. Try to buy health insurance at age 67 and then get back to me about what a great idea this is RisR. What a fucking idiot.

#18 | Posted by danni

Why are you trying to buy health care at 67? Haven't you paid the gooberment for 45 years 2.69% of your income so that you don't have to pay for insurance? What an idiot.

P.S. If the system worked, insurance companies wouldn't even offer insurance for those over 65 because there wouldn't be a market for it.

It would be kinda hard to make people pay for something they already have for free. But, we are speaking hypothetically of course.

are you saying that doctors here aren't advising patients of this? we need to pay them a bonus to tell people to live better lifestyles?

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2010-02-19 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag

That is EXACTLY what I am saying!

People with out good insurance don't go to the ER till they get sick, they don't get PREVENTATIVE CARE! They don't have a regular doctor! They can't afford the astronomical cost of medications to prevent or treat conditions. That is the fundemental failing of the current system!!

You are not willing to learn, you don't understand the system, you are not interested in examining the system, you reject any information presented to you, you don't care about the health of the people of this great nation, you don't care about being the best, you don't care about this country.

you are a traitor to this nation

People with out good insurance don't go to the ER till they get sick, they don't get PREVENTATIVE CARE! They don't have a regular doctor! They can't afford the astronomical cost of medications to prevent or treat conditions.

most people are insured bozo and have access to the exact care you are referring to. they still live shitty lives. we do not value our health in this country. period. Yes, some people without insurance don't go to the MD and go the ER and that is a problem we can remedy.

Jesus Christ, an office visit and generic Rx would solve a ton of these problems.....not "astronomical cost of medications".

what a tool.

You are not willing to learn, you don't understand the system, you are not interested in examining the system, you reject any information presented to you, you don't care about the health of the people of this great nation, you don't care about being the best, you don't care about this country.

you are a traitor to this nation

what is it you think you know that I don't?

please share with the class...

LOL

Eb, the fact is, President Obama is trying to enact meaningful healthcare reform.

and what is your evidence of that? that POS that just failed.

try again. weak.

The GOP is fighting him tooth and nail.

yes, they are. I'm glad they fought him on this. However, not for the same reasons they did. they did it for partisan reasons rather than the fact that it was a POS.

Krugmann's stupidity is astounding....

Krugmann's stupidity is astounding....

#45 | Posted by jonryker

STFU Ryker and go fetch me some coffee.

--Picard

most people are insured bozo and have access to the exact care you are referring to. they still live shitty lives. we do not value our health in this country. period. Yes, some people without insurance don't go to the MD and go the ER and that is a problem we can remedy.

Jesus Christ, an office visit and generic Rx would solve a ton of these problems.....not "astronomical cost of medications".

what a tool.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2010-02-19 03:15 PM | Reply

I was clear...

You are not willing to learn, you don't understand the system, you are not interested in examining the system, you reject any information presented to you, you don't care about the health of the people of this great nation, you don't care about being the best, you don't care about this country.

you are a traitor to this nation

you are a traitor to this nation

you want to call me a homo as well, Tigerlily?

you might as well. you can pile it on with the rest.

and be just as accurate.

Nulli,

Awwwww! You jumpin' in with him? Well, I guess that's easier than paying attention or thinking....

All should watch MSNBC a couple of hours a day as Keith and Rachel document what the party of uglies seeks to do to the nation. No programs. No leaders. No ideas. Just a course of obstructing any benefits to people, even if they (the Repubs) once proposed that very same legislation. This is pure criminal hypocrisy, hiding behind a Palin mask while wanting nothing more than to see their LEGITIMATELY elected president, and by inference their nation, fail. herm

Herm,

You're talking about Uglies and Rachel Maddow and Keith Olberman at the same time? Seems redundant.....

But, thanks for the MSNBC update....you're the only one watching....