Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, February 16, 2010

Arthur Salm: Dick Cheney is a war criminal. He belongs in prison. "I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Cheney crowed Sunday, on ABC's This Week, adding, "I was a big supporter of the enhanced interrogation techniques ..."

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U R A Maroon

yep, we only TRIED AND CONVICTED people for waterboarding dumbass

This article is jumping to what may be an inaccurate conclusion. If Cheney were to say he was a big supporter of Donkey shows that doesn't mean he actually ever blew a Donkey. We may all strongly we suspect Cheney of blowing Donkey's. We may even find the blue dress with the Donkey stain in his closet but we must be careful not to just jump to the conclusion that Cheney loves Donkey dong.

I support waterboarding.

yep, we only TRIED AND CONVICTED people for waterboarding dumbass

#2 | Posted by truthhurts

Yeah--done on a civilian!

Waterboarding is not torture--if they die from it--then it is murder--like the Japenese did.

What did this particular group of people most covet? Their secrecy? Particularly the parts of the National budget that were kept secret throughout their multi-term access, the result being astronomical debt, wage enslavement, wall street and corporate dominion, and the dollar is going to need to arrange it's funeral - always too expensive.

They are war profiteers and oil men. Those two items alone are responsible for their access to our governments highest office - Bush was so unqualified and anyone who denies it should be considered of unsound mind themselves. He was put in place to fulfill someone elses complex agenda. He's a slick bastard, but I highly doubt that George reads Tom Clancy (on anything less than Xanax), let alone PDB's or internet news. He was given this treasure map and it lands him and his cronies on war profits and oil profits. Fancy that?!

911 was their plan, bin Laden is just a boogieman first used to threaten the oil cartels with "oil going over $160/barrel" - not directed at the average American whatsoever, but straight into the heart of the group. And wouldn't you know it - he was RIGHT - record OIL PROFITS through the boogieman bin Laden and his spooky secret note to the President of the United States (who happens to be at the heart of a family that are both war profiteers and oil men)! What are the odds?!

Yes, it obviously was a crime of massive proportions. The defenses were literally brought down on purpose. But suppose that even if bin Laden did plan 911 - how in hell could he have known about the military maneuvers planned? How did his cabal of miscreants entirely confuse NORAD and every top brass and every staff that made decisions integral to perpetrating 911 (on accident)? Those NORAD people installed for this "job" have not been questioned to my knowledge, let alone considered enemies of the State, a terrorist cell and their every action a potential threat to our blah, blah, blah. Getting logical investigations is like the video footage, computer, phone and camera data taken by Mossad agents, 757 wreckage, the Gitmo torture tapes, the exact record of theft from the vaults under WTC or Dick Cheney's visitor records - all magically disappeared.

It wouldn't surprise me if a large number of operators that day were originally CIA, inventing some kind of multi-branch requested seal equating essentially to the perpetuating executive secrecy bullshit purposefully instituted solely for it's misuse which is tradition with these Presidential frauds.

Cheney is a criminal and always has been. Those whom he associates himself with are also criminals. His family and the families of their friends are also criminals. Basically, they are the "terror network" that Bush was referring to. War profiteers and oily men. They represent the 1% that own nearly everything with a dollar value that is on this planet. They never minded killing us to get at their resources, in fact that just cuts back on us flotsam who breed uncontrollably. Perhaps they generated the Haiti earthquake because they are good people with good intentions and can easily justify the crime with higher profits? Only time (and the swelling of quite a few UBS accounts) will tell.

"Waterboarding is not torture--if they die from it--then it is murder--like the Japenese did."

seriously this is still a debate?

how is it now torture?

explain.

They should pull his decrepit ass out of that wheel chair and water board him, he has information about war crimes.

Yeah--done on a civilian!

Waterboarding is not torture--if they die from it--then it is murder--like the Japenese did.

#5 | Posted by MURPHY

abcnews.go.com

Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam 40 years ago. A photograph that appeared in The Washington Post of a U.S. soldier involved in water boarding a North Vietnamese prisoner in 1968 led to that soldier's severe punishment.

"The soldier who participated in water torture in January 1968 was court-martialed within one month after the photos appeared in The Washington Post, and he was drummed out of the Army," recounted Darius Rejali, a political science professor at Reed College.

oh man..
this is one of the best laughs I have had on this site since celisary treid to tell us he was a real person...

a war crime....ah...thats a good one.

hmm we have tried and convicted others for waterboarding so it is not a crime.

ok gotcha,

I repeat again...(is that a yogi ism?)

if any of a good leftists family could be saved by waterboarding any of these punks...thier sanctamonious outrage of cheney would go out the frickin window.....

geen a family member of mine died from the failures of the bush cheney administration so....

of course how many liberal or conservative families have lost a loved one because of the use of torture?

And before you lock your brain up attempting to contemplate that..

The invasion of iraq was justified by "intelligence" gained from torture.

Toture kills

I think Cheney can be tried for treason but the whole concept of a "war crime" is idiotic. War crimes were invented for no other reason than to have a "civilized" excuse to execute the losers of a war. I'm not against such executions as much as a I am against pretentious excuse making.

An empire in steep decline eventually has to leave many of its ideals on history's curbside.

Waterbording is not torture and Sean Hannity is willing to undergo waterboarding to prove it....what??? Oh, he chickened out??? I guess it probably is torture if Hannity is afraid to undergo the procedure.

how is it now torture?

explain.

#7 | Posted by klifferd

Kliff...it was always torture. When was it not? What country do you live in? North Korea? According to the Geneva conventions it is torture.

If Cheney admits to allowing torture then he is a war criminal.

The Truth does hurt.

No legal authority of any type in the U.S. or the world has ever doubted that waterboarding is torture.

Only the retards around the DR like Mr Torture Werks!(tm)

I won't hold my breath waiting for him to actually be held accountable for said war crime.

We should only treat our prisoners as they themselves treat others. Be they civilian or military prisoners. No waterboarding, but it should be OK to slowly cut their heads off on video, or simply blow the fuckers up. Fair?

I liked the Andrew Sullivan write-up better, for this part:

In fact, the attorney general of the United States is legally obliged to prosecute someone who has openly admitted such a war crime or be in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the UN Convention on Torture. For Eric Holder to ignore this duty subjects him too to prosecution. If the US government fails to enforce the provision against torture, the UN or a foreign court can initiate an investigation and prosecution.

These are not my opinions and they are not hyperbole. They are legal facts. Either this country is governed by the rule of law or it isn't. Cheney's clear admission of his central role in authorizing waterboarding and the clear evidence that such waterboarding did indeed take place means that prosecution must proceed.

We should only treat our prisoners as they themselves treat others. Be they civilian or military prisoners. No waterboarding, but it should be OK to slowly cut their heads off on video, or simply blow the fuckers up. Fair?

Yes, that will certainly highlight the difference between us and the terrorists. They chop off heads, we chop off heads... what are we fighting for again?

"yep, we only TRIED AND CONVICTED people for waterboarding dumbass"
#2 | Posted by truthhurts

Yep, we also hung people for stealing horses and convicted people for preforming abortions. We even used to be able to smoke cigarettes in public. But now we are tried and convicted.

Still trying to figure out your point except to call someone dumbass.

If you give them enough rope, they'll usually hang themselves.

Cheney's been blathering on for weeks. Let him talk. He sounds like a lunatic and he'll keep dropping these little confessions, because his ego is so huge he won't be able to keep his mouth shut.

Eventually he'll admit enough "little things" that it'll suddenly be a big thing.

When a soldier is left without an arm or leg due to it being blown off, the soldier will suffer for the rest of their life.

That is torture.

We should disband the military because for every person they shoot but leave alive is tortured.

Still trying to figure out your point except to call someone dumbass.

#23 | Posted by KBM

when did we change the law that make waterboarding legal, since it was illegal?

or are you just a dumbass?

"what are we fighting for again?"

To keep them from chopping our our heads. Isn't it easier to win if the rules for both parties are at least equal? We've not won a war since the concept of "total war" was changed to "politically correct war." Instead we act as pansy-ass cowards afraid of offending people that have no bearing upon the advancement of our nation. Fuck them, and fuck the terrorists.

Scaring a person in to thinking they are drowning but not actually drowning them is a war crime?

Wow

Donnor

That was a typo

I meant how is it not torture?

It's torture.

If one can die by waterboarding then it is not JUST scaring them.

Scaring a person in to thinking they are drowning but not actually drowning them is a war crime?

Wow

#28 | Posted by Godisfemale

yes it is, as in we have tried convicted and put to death people for doing it to our soldiers.

yes it is.

sorry you dont understand that but, yes it is.

torturing someone to death (which we have done in the GWoT btw) is not the only form of torture.

you are now considered a dumbass

#6 | Posted by redlightrobot
Are you running for office in Texas?

Mancow couldn't take it. Sean saw that clip and crapped his pants.

I repeat again...(is that a yogi ism?)

if any of a good leftists family could be saved by waterboarding any of these punks...thier sanctamonious outrage of cheney would go out the frickin window.....

#12 | Posted by afkabl

So using your logic they are being stupid to limit interogation to waterboarding. There can be no limit to torture if you think it will save even one life. So why not bring back the rack? I know, lets draw and quarter 'em!!!

You sir, are a flipping moron.

for the record we brought back the rack it is called a stress position.

latest offensive in Afghanistan with a handicap strict rules that routinely force them to hold their fire.

Although details of the new guidelines are classified to keep insurgents from reading them, U.S. troops say the Taliban are keenly aware of the restrictions.

"I understand the reason behind it, but it's so hard to fight a war like this," said Lance Cpl. Travis Anderson, 20, of Altoona, Iowa. "They're using our rules of engagement against us," he said, adding that his platoon had repeatedly seen men drop their guns into ditches and walk away to blend in with civilians.

If a man emerges from a Taliban hideout after shooting erupts, U.S. troops say they cannot fire at him if he is not seen carrying a weapon or if they did not personally watch him drop one.

What this means, some contend, is that a militant can fire at them, then set aside his weapon and walk freely out of a compound, possibly toward a weapons cache in another location. It was unclear how often this has happened. In another example, Marines pinned down by a barrage of insurgent bullets say they can't count on quick air support because it takes time to positively identify shooters.

"This is difficult," Lance Cpl. Michael Andrejczuk, 20, of Knoxville, Tenn., said Monday. "We are trained like when we see something, we obliterate it. But here, we have to see them and when we do, they don't have guns."

everybody should feel better now that we have rules under obama.

and apparently this Supt has a history of doing this in RI (in Providence), she comes in whacks the teachers unions and cuts and replaces teachers.

sorry wrong thread

everybody should feel better now that we have rules under obama.

#36 | Posted by semtex111

hey here is a solution,

DONT FIGHT OTHER PEOPLE'S WARS FOR THEM

"yep, we only TRIED AND CONVICTED people for waterboarding dumbass"
#2 | Posted by truthhurts

Yep, we also hung people for stealing horses and convicted people for preforming abortions. We even used to be able to smoke cigarettes in public. But now we are tried and convicted.
Still trying to figure out your point except to call someone dumbass.
#23 | Posted by KBM at 2010-02-16 04:25 PM

And hung for witchery - never forget that either. Oh, and massacred by Puritans for having the audacity of befriending the invading settlers.

So many instances of abuse performed have secret information tied to and from them, it's obvious they are covering their ass.

These Gitmo "detainees" were sometimes interrogated to death, were medically experimented upon, subject to random beatings, blaring music, pressure positioning, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, sexually berated, religiously persecuted and psychologically and physically tortured. They produced NO actionable intelligence because this is the side-show intended to distract from the actual rendition and torture program. Unfortunately the Gitmo torture tapes are only now disappeared. No investigation has been made to my knowledge. This is also quite telling. Even if the detainees really weren't just randomly turned over by local tribes-people prior to the US-led invasion of the Middle East, they also never got access to lawyers or have been impartially tried. Also, no information was permitted as to the true nature of their condition and their treatment while detained. What we have since learned is quite disturbing - our own United States military employs torture. Not even Red Cross workers were allowed to visit, and for good reason as the operation would be in jeopardy.

But now we have law suits challenging the entirety of this use of rendition and torture so even dumbasses who deny waterboarding can once again witness it as the legally and physically defined torture it always has been.

Ah Yes...there is a legal expert we should listen too Arthur Salm - that great American legal mind and journalist whos prior column include:

Arthur Salm: Legalize marijuana
It's time to re-evaluate the benefits vs. costs of medical marijuana

Arthur Salm: The most depressing place in the world - Canada

Arthur Salm: Blooms in the desert-xeriscaped gardens

Arthur Salm: Hey kids, drugs are cool!

"He seemed intent on impressing us with the abrupt rise to his current editorial position based on his apparently innate writing skills. He stressed:

■his B.A. in an unrelated field
■lack of any writing courses
■background as a bus driver
■experience as an unpaid movie critic on radio

His single editing credential consisted of proofreading copyright lines on reprints for a local academic press. Otherwise, he shuffled papers for that publisher, then skated into the job at the paper."

The Bus Driver with a BA is a guy YOU PUT UP AS CREDIBLE!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....OH MY GUT HURTS..YES! THE BASTION OF TRUTH - ARTHUR SALM - BUS DRIVER TO THE STARS! HE - AND ONLY HE - CAN STATE WHAT A WAR CRIIME IS - THE CRIME FIGHTING BUS DRIVER THAT HAS A PART TIME JOB WRITING FOR A LOCAL BLOG!

YOU GUYS ARE TOO MUCH !!!!!

why not have waterboarding as an olympic sport?

Can we Waterboard Salm??
Sounds like a Taliban name to me...:0

Lets see...? Here we have an enemy that every second of the day all they think about is wanting to kill me and my family. If they are captured we should let them go. But 1st give them my address. I'll take it from there. I promise not to use any form of torture!

Sa usual, the headlind is totaly misleading.

I have always liked watersports, especially the Sports Illustrated Swim suit edition, nothing like real life action.
I think it would be great that when we have the Summer Olympics in pakistan we should introduce waterboarding to the region.

obama can demonstrate the camel turd shot put.
Bring a little bit of obama's camel lot to his homeland.

yep, we only TRIED AND CONVICTED people for waterboarding dumbass

#2 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

We also used to try and convict Black men for their relationships with White women...

thehill.com

Not all old laws are good laws.

Hooray for waterboarding!

Hooray for waterboarding!

#47 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2010-02-16 06:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sure that sounds better in German, or when said by the Khmer Rouge, or the thugs of the Spanish Inquisition, or the imperial Japanese...

The Khmer Rouge at the Tuol Sleng prison in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, used waterboarding as a method of torture between 1975 and 1979.[114] The practice was documented in a painting by former inmate Vann Nath, which is on display in the Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum. The museum also has on display boards and other actual tools used for waterboarding during the Khmer Rouge regime.[115][116]

en.wikipedia.org

And so on and so on...

I'm sure that sounds better in German, or when said by the Khmer Rouge, or the thugs of the Spanish Inquisition, or the imperial Japanese...

False. English only!

WAR CRIME: ตอบ น้ำ ขึ้น!!

Ah Yes...there is a legal expert we should listen too Arthur Salm - that great American legal mind and journalist whos prior column include:
Arthur Salm: Legalize marijuana
It's time to re-evaluate the benefits vs. costs of medical marijuana
Arthur Salm: The most depressing place in the world - Canada
Arthur Salm: Blooms in the desert-xeriscaped gardens
Arthur Salm: Hey kids, drugs are cool!
"He seemed intent on impressing us with the abrupt rise to his current editorial position based on his apparently innate writing skills. He stressed:
■his B.A. in an unrelated field
■lack of any writing courses
■background as a bus driver
■experience as an unpaid movie critic on radio
His single editing credential consisted of proofreading copyright lines on reprints for a local academic press. Otherwise, he shuffled papers for that publisher, then skated into the job at the paper."
The Bus Driver with a BA is a guy YOU PUT UP AS CREDIBLE!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....OH MY GUT HURTS..YES! THE BASTION OF TRUTH - ARTHUR SALM - BUS DRIVER TO THE STARS! HE - AND ONLY HE - CAN STATE WHAT A WAR CRIIME IS - THE CRIME FIGHTING BUS DRIVER THAT HAS A PART TIME JOB WRITING FOR A LOCAL BLOG!
YOU GUYS ARE TOO MUCH !!!!!
#41 | Posted by foshaffer at 2010-02-16 05:14 PM

Love the editing style, you put that together intelligently, I hope that I got it. The gist being Arthur Salm is not legally accredited, his claim is either unconstitutional, misinterpreting data or outright wrong, but basically the bus driver with the funny name needs to shut up and "wrap his turban". Imo, since it's legally obvious that international law was repeatedly violated and Cheney publicly admits just that, then Salm has it very correctly put that law demands Cheney explain himself. Something tells me that national secrecy is already invoked or the case for impeachment would have been instigated around 2001.

This quote is really telling "No legal authority of any type in the U.S. or the world has ever doubted that waterboarding is torture. To have subjected an individual to waterboarding once is torture under U.S. and international law. To subject someone to it 183 times is so categorically torture is it almost absurd to even write this sentence."

From the Dick's mouth: "I was a big supporter of waterboarding," Cheney crowed Sunday, on ABC's "This Week," adding, "I was a big supporter of the enhanced interrogation techniques "

BTW did Cheney set the policy of enhanced interrogation? Did Cheney specifically tell anyone they could waterboard?

Does just saying you support a policy make you a war criminal?

#52

Probably so if you're one of the people in the room making the policy.

Donnor

That was a typo

I meant how is it not torture?

#29 | Posted by kliffer

oh! you had me going...

Probably so if you're one of the people in the room making the policy.

#53 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

But did he actually make the policy? give the order?

If I'm in the room with the president, I can advise that when we are done interrogating prisoners we throw them out of planes over the Atlantic ocean, but does that idea alone make me a war criminal?

The Vice President technically has no actual power unless there is a tie in the senate. I don't see what he actually did to make him a criminal.

Does just saying you support a policy make you a war criminal?

#52 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

ummm he was the Vice President! I would say yes. But, you know there will be no paper trail that we can get to...yet.

But, someone had to authorize it. Who was it if not the VP?

BTW did Cheney set the policy of enhanced interrogation? Did Cheney specifically tell anyone they could waterboard?
Does just saying you support a policy make you a war criminal?

Yes, yes, and no.

If I'm in the room with the president, I can advise that when we are done interrogating prisoners we throw them out of planes over the Atlantic ocean, but does that idea alone make me a war criminal?

Well, if they do get tossed from planes, then yes you're a war criminal... and a litterbug to boot!

#55 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Technically, you're right. But, as you know from the past several years, no one has been a bigger proponent of 'enhanced interrogations' than Cheney. He still is from what I've been hearing him say lately.

I think I know why Bush is keeping quiet so why doesn't Cheney STFU?

If Cheney doesn't STFU then I say we start an investigation and find out Who the fuck did authorize it. Why is this so difficult? It was a crime to do it then and a crime to do it now.

If I commit a crime while working for the Gov and even if I no longer were to work for the government then I could still be prosecuted for said crime.

What makes Cheney or Bush exempt? Nothing!

I don't understand why this is so difficult for the Democrats.

The REthugs would have no qualms in doing this I bet. Hell they would have gone after him while he was still in office. Wouldn't matter what happened to the country...someday maybe the Dems will grow a set and then just maybe we'll get something done around here!

www.wsws.org

Under other circumstances, the interview on Fox News would be Exhibit A in a war crimes trial against the former vice president, as Cheney admitted sharing responsibility for the torture regime established in the CIA prisons. He declared he was "proud of" the torture of such prisoners as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged organizer of the 9/11 attacks, who was waterboarded 183 times. "I knew about the waterboarding," he said. "Not specifically in any one particular case, but as a general policy that we had approved."

Cheney even declared, in one particularly chilling remark, that he fully supported those torturers who went beyond their instructions and engaged in interrogation methods that even the Bush White House had refused to pronounce legal. The exchange went as follows, as Cheney summed up his attitude to the CIA interrogations:

CHENEY: It was good policy. It was properly carried out. It worked very, very well.

WALLACE: So even these cases where they went beyond the specific legal authorization, you're OK with it?

CHENEY: I am.

Cheney & Co.-> Gutless,Spineless & Cowardly!!!

Dick Cheney was way too Gutless,Spineless & Cowardly to fight in the Vietnam War but still he's a hero to a group of pathetic,like_minded "Assholes" on this site....Holy Shit!!!

I miss all those bushy investigations. Good idea.

someday maybe the Dems will grow a set

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-16 08:20 PM

LOL! Good one.

Libs prefer harsh language and empty threats

Technically, you're right. But, as you know from the past several years, no one has been a bigger proponent of 'enhanced interrogations' than Cheney. He still is from what I've been hearing him say lately.

#59 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

So are plenty of talkers on the radio and on TV. So are members of Congress.

I'm still stuck on the technicality that the Vice President has absolutely no power under our system of government. Did he have stronger influence on the White House than most Veeps ever had, yeah probably, but what actual authority did he have? That's a legit question on my part, that I'm genuinely curious to know the answer. I didn't think the Vice President can order anyone to do anything so how can he set an interrogation policy? And if he can't actually put the policy in place, how can he be guilty of a crime.

Unless just supporting the policy, or being in the government that makes the policy makes you a war criminal, in which case yeah he would be guilty (if in fact its a war crime). But then again so would members of the Obama administration.

Like to see him run for POTUS in 2012.
Get rid of these panty-waste lib's who are making us the laughing stock of the world.

The left wants the world to like us where I'd rather have respect.
When the shit hits the fan, the entire word looks to us for help and we can't be the worlds Policeman with the ol "limpwristed" approach of the Chicago criminal element currently running Washington.

There should no longer be any doubt as to who authorized the use of torture.

In April, 2008, a heretofore secret memo from Bush's DOJ . . . specifically from John Yoo, deputy of OLC (Office of Legal Council) . . . was declassified at the request of the ACLU.

A direct line from the DOJ (Yoo) to the "Bush Administration," to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, is clearly outlined.

www.aclu.org

BTW did Cheney set the policy of enhanced interrogation? Did Cheney specifically tell anyone they could waterboard?

Does just saying you support a policy make you a war criminal?

#52 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2010-02-16 07:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thank you for conceding the main point, that the "water treatment" has been, and is established as a torture technique punishable by US and international law.

The last alcoholic that admitted he drank three beers a day, the family said he really drank two fifths and three beers a day.

When someone admits something multiply by 20
if his name starts with a C multiply by 2000.

Simple hypothetical to Libs on D.R.:

1. Your entire family is aboard airliner rigged to explode into little pieces upon landing in three hours.

2. You have in custody, the "terrorist" KNOWN to possess code to disarm it.

3. Do you employ ANY means necessary in attempt to extract this information?

Thanks for participating.

JM

Simple hypothetical to the Reps on D.R.:

1. Your brother/sister is in the army.

2. You have in custody a "terrorist" you think may have intel linking Iraq to AQ

3. Do you employ any means necessary in attempt to extract this information?

Thanks for participating

Oh BTW, my example actually happened. Your brother/sister died.

I think that we may have heard the last of Cheney for a while. You can bet that the next time he is in front of an objective reported, he is going to be asked to specifically define what he means by support of enhanced interrogation techniques. If the answer is that he authorized their use, he is toast.

if any of a good leftists family could be saved by waterboarding any of these punks...thier sanctamonious outrage of cheney would go out the frickin window....

~Babbler.

Still spouting the party line, Babbler?

How pathetically predictable.

The question itself is bullshit.

How do you know the person you want to torture has the info you want?

If you torture someone into giving you intel how do you know he didn't just make it up in order to make the pain stop fer a sec?

How do you know that torture won't kill the guy and lose the info you want?

Bottom line is that torture is not the most effective way of extracting information nor is it the most reliable. It also silences moderate voices by inflaming extremists. It's also morally repugnant.

Dick Cheney is an admitted War Criminal and needs to be brought up on charges.

He never will, of course, but that's not a good enuff reason to stop calling for it.

24 is just a TV show not reality.

And yer an idiot with more in common with the terrorists than you'd ever admit.

K?

Be Well.

Waterboarding was first declared illegal in war crimes tribunals run by the United States after World War II. Soldiers and Officials either taking part in the waterboarding, ordering it be done, or having knowledge of the waterboarding but not intervening were convicted. They often received prison terms or death sentences related to their parts in the torture activities. Waterboarding was illegal to use against civilians or soldiers or any others.

Law: The United States considers Waterboarding a war crime by case law and statute.

Fact: Cheney ordered Waterboarding.

Question for the NOPers: If he broke the law, why are you against him being tried for it?

Redlight,

The point was Arthur Salm is a nobody. He has no legal background - he barely has a writting background - he is basically a Bus Driver with a BA that lucked into a job - but the article is posted here as if his opinion has some weight.

If this was an article by an ex-supreme court judge, a noted constitutional jurist it would have meaning. But guys like you have your minds made up and then if anyone that can type writes something you agree with then BAM - it is the gospel truth - without taking into consideration who is saying it and why.

Which is why the left runs after made up crisis after made up crisis - the spotted Owl, the Rain Forest, Global Warming, Feed the World, Dipers are filling the landfills....it order to put meaning into your life you find a cause and crusade for it - with the underlying basic tenants that the US is bad, Humans are destroying the earth, and everyone should live in peace and harmony - WITH YOU or your breathern TELLING them how to live.

Basically - Humans are not destroying the world but have done harm - mostly in areas where socialism / communisum prevales - you want to fix the environment? Support capitalism

The US isn't bad - it has freed more people than any other government in history - ask europe / Asia after WW2 - who rebuilt it? Ask Eastern europeans what it was like before Reagan took the wall down - and now. Ask the Iranian on the street if they would like the US to invade.

We have not been perfect - but the good far outweighs the bad.

We should not ask if GOD is on our side - but rather if we are on the side of God. What good does excluding our childern from the morals and values that founded this country serve?

Yet liberals consistently fight against ANYTHING that puts a context of Morals and Values. The history of the US ( up until recently ) has always been on the side of God - freeing people - rewardind honesty and hard work - punishing those that take advantage of those who are to weak to defend themselves.

" The history of the US ( up until recently ) has always been on the side of God "

Somebody failed American history miserably.

rebusreport.com

Oh wait, it's foshitfobrains, nevermind.

Talk about grasping at straws! Zat - you really are desperate! An attached article to a treaty - (which by definition is negotiated) as PROOF of ...what? That the guys that signed the treaty wanted to make peace with the Muslims so they tossed that in to make the muslims happy?

That sure is a FOUNDING document of our democracy isn't it? That sure deminishes the rest of our history - Doesn't it.

It must truly be sad to live life as you see it.

Yet liberals consistently fight against ANYTHING that puts a context of Morals and Values

funny arguing defending torture and Morals and values

TRUTH72...
1. I am not a REPUB. I consider myself a Conservative. Whoever, in whichever party will do the right thing - gets my vote.

2. Would you or would you not use any means at your disposal in a attempt to save your family? Would you punch, kick, waterboard, light hair on fire and extinguish with golf shoes??? Whatever??

Or would you, with a couple hour window of opportunity, ask politely - pretty please - how to de-fuse the C4?

JM

well for better than 4,000 americans have paid the price for torture so you arguement is theory, mine is reality

2. Would you or would you not use any means at your disposal in a attempt to save your family? Would you punch, kick, waterboard, light hair on fire and extinguish with golf shoes??? Whatever??

OH Btw, I would do all of these things you say and argue justifiability to the jury.

I dont have a problem doing that with cheney,bush etal.

Some of you folks are obsessed with "24". It is fiction ya know?

concerning:

Simple hypothetical to the Reps on D.R.:
1. Your brother/sister is in the army.
2. You have in custody a "terrorist" you think may have intel linking Iraq to AQ
3. Do you employ any means necessary in attempt to extract this information?

Sadham was going to sell oil in EUROS which would have crashed our dollar. they had to remove SH
they made something up.

To answer your question, AMERICA until Reagan came along , said they would NOT TORTURE anyone in your given circumstances (soecidically under ANY circumstances, no torture that was official) So how come we became corrupt perverted and another spanish inquisition?

How come it is alright now to be a monster?

Why are you a monster? Who do you work for?

Iraq has NEVER been linked to AQ and even you know that yet you tell untruths.

a MILLION iraqi WOMEN AND CHILDREN were killed
They were not AQ they went shopping.

Did you know the no fly list in the USA is over a m illion long? These are all AQ? You are gullible.
No AQ that is a gimmick.

go read 1984 and see if the fear they use isnt the same.

Trying to scare you into voting the last of your rights away. And you are dumb enough to do it too.


"The left wants the world to like us where I'd rather have respect.
When the shit hits the fan, the entire word looks to us for help and we can't be the worlds Policeman with the ol "limpwristed" approach of the Chicago criminal element currently running Washington."

#67 | Posted by Docsmooth

You don't want respect, you want fear.

If you actually think the "Chicago criminal element" is " 'limpwristed' ", you should read a book - cross reference Al Capone.

TRUTH 81,
Come on. 4000 Americans have paid the price for torture?? What the H does that mean?

OK - I am heartened to hear that you would do all things necessary. We have a starting point. I have literally had conversations with people who would allow the crash. YES! I am NOT joking. At the point in the conversation at which that is admitted - the discussion is over. It is pointless to argue with an insane asylum patient who ought be in a straight jacket.

OLD WHISKEY 84,
Fiction? Tell that to Daniel Pearl's family. Every single waking moment in the lives of radical jihadists/terrorists, etc., is consumed by efforts to murder as many Jews, Americans and other assorted "infidels" as possible.

JM

Read Bush's 2003 SotU

Read about the justification to invade Iraq

Read about Cheney's nexus between Iraq, WMD and AQ.

The nexus of why we had to invade Iraq.

It was because Iraq had WMD and was working with AQ to develop and provide AQ with WMD.

That little bit of information resulted from intelligence gained from torture.

Torture was used to gain the intelligence used to justify the invasion of iraq.

And what happened to the individual who was tortured and all?

He was handed over to Libya.

Libya? WTF!

Well he was and he died in their hands.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Now why would the bush administration hand over such a high value AQ detainee to LIBYA?

WTF

No torture, no lies on nexus between Iraq, WMD and AQ, no reason to invade Iraq, no dead 4,000+ americans

I won't hold my breath waiting for him to actually be held accountable for said war crime.

#19 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-16 04:01 PM | Reply

wont hold your breath from a waterboarding thread

I get it....

12 | Posted by afkabl

So using your logic they are being stupid to limit interogation to waterboarding. There can be no limit to torture if you think it will save even one life. So why not bring back the rack? I know, lets draw and quarter 'em!!!

You sir, are a flipping moron.

#34 | Posted by Mutant9 at 2010

well good...then if some fucker buys a dirty bomb from iran and they vaporize a few thousand then maybe if you family were there at the time, then maybe you will change your mind.
but even through your trash talking dogshit, I still believe that you would want people to do whatever they had to do, your liberal sanctamonious fucker attitude aside....and I WOULD hope you would, not for you but for the sake of innocent lives that you would sacrifice.

well good...then if some fucker buys a dirty bomb from iran and they vaporize a few thousand then maybe if you family were there at the time, then maybe you will change your mind.

Emotional argument is for those who have failed logic and reason. There is no law in the world the average person would not want to ignore in the name of justice for a family member; that does not make it right or moral.

or effective

Effective or not depends on what the person you torture knows. It can be effective if they have information to give, but either way, it is neither right nor moral IMHO.

I find it completely unhuman that libtards can consider waterboarding "torture" but allow abortions to occur for no other reason other than birth control. AMAZING. I believe that libtards should no longer be classified as homo-sapiens. They need to be re-classified as homo-insapiens.

It was because Iraq had WMD and was working with AQ to develop and provide AQ with WMD.

That little bit of information resulted from intelligence gained from torture.

It wasn't all torture, they also had "Curveball" feeding them the lies they wanted to hear.

"It was because Iraq had WMD and was working with AQ to develop and provide AQ with WMD."

Which is exactly what every leading dem echoed and backed Bush via their votes. Didn't the previous administration also claim Saddam had WMDs, as well as draft a plan to remove Saddam?

I find it completely unhuman that libtards can consider waterboarding "torture" but allow abortions to occur for no other reason other than birth control.

I find it amazing and completely alien that you can equate torture with abortion AND then that you think that liberals use abortions for NO other reason than for birth control.

use abortions for NO other reason than for birth control.

#97 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-17 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please tell me what other reason they use it for? Shits and grins? Nothing to do that day? What a fucking stupid thing to type.

Yet liberals consistently fight against ANYTHING that puts a context of Morals and Values. The history of the US ( up until recently ) has always been on the side of God - freeing people - rewardind honesty and hard work - punishing those that take advantage of those who are to weak to defend themselves.

Nobody can be that naive. Oh wait, I forgot about the source.

That's like saying Nike is doing God's work by paying their sweatshop slaves 10 cents an hour and working them 12 hours a day. I guess God has the same sense of humor as foshaffer. Apparently, they both attend the same church too.

Please tell me what other reason they use it for? Shits and grins? Nothing to do that day? What a fucking stupid thing to type.

#98 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Are you saying only Liberals get abortions?

And you are ok with making women have RAPE babies?

you are either one sick puppy ELCID or very narrow minded.

I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

...Adolph Hitler: from Mein Kompf.

I will not invade Poland. - Adolph Hitler.

Yes, let's just take everything Hitler said on face value.

I will not invade Poland. - Adolph Hitler.

Yes, let's just take everything Hitler said on face value.

#102 | Posted by Corky

"The Stimulus is Working"

--B. Obama

#103 | Posted by Eddie

Were Edwardo to consult the CBO, or any of several major economic analysts quoted in the thread article yesterday, he wouldn't look so stoopid.

"Cheney Admits to War Crime"

Can we waterboard him and see what else he admits to?

apparently this thread is over... Darwin's Law has been invoked.

omg did I say Darwin?

I needs mo coffee!

That would be Godwin's law! lol

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