An important note to understanding how Ryan's budget saves money: It's not through privatization, though everything does get privatized. It's through firm, federal cost controls. The privatization itself actually costs money. The CBO's analysis of Ryan's Medicare changes tells the story well...

It'll save the Government money, cost us all more out of our pockets - and it can't do it without federal cost controls.

Whether or not you like his answer, you have to give him credit for stepping up to the chalkboard.

Don't have any idea, LoD, but it's interesting that he'd propose it. It's no secret that what he lays out, minus the federal controls, is and has been what many on the right have proposed.

I find the admission of federal controls the most interesting part. I thought the Market would fix everything without regulation or controls. This may be an admission, like Greenspan finally conceded, or it's as you said. A plan so radical it seeks to accomplish something not yet seen.

As I've been saying for a year now, PAUL RYAN in 2012~! Or, Mike Pence...or...

...anybody but the present potus** or Sarah Palin.

No way! A federal budget that doesn't run up huge debt and exist on deficit spending? Not even the rank and file Republicans will support this. It's not just the Dems that throw good money after bad, it's an ingrained belief in Washington that you have to "bring home the bacon" in order to get reelected, regardless of whether one's state needs the money or not. And entitlements have become so permanent and usual that people forget that even Social Security was supposed to be a temporary program. Nice try, but unfortunately it'll go nowhere in today's system.

Much like the Rtard health plan of "Don't get sick, but it you do get sick, die soon!!!", this steaming pile of Republican Base depends on old people going to early graves because they starve to death in the gutter.

Typical greedfuck. Death panel the asshole!!!

According to the analysis, old people are left out in the cold; how will he ever get support for such a plan?

#3 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-09 11:49 PM | Reply

As I've been saying for a year now, PAUL RYAN in 2012~! Or, Mike Pence...or...

#5 | Posted by nanc at 2010-02-10 12:14 AM | Reply

There you go. It just took two posts for the wing ding hate crowd to come out.

Social Security was supposed to be a temporary program.

It is. You don't get benefits after you die.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your next President.

Paul Ryan?

That's the whack job who wants to cut taxes on the top 5% by 25% aint he?

Apparently completely unaware that the top tier tax payers in the US almost never pay their rate due to lobbied loopholes.

See also: Corporate taxes.

What the fuck is the problem with Rtards?

Swear to gawd those morons think tax cuts cure cancer.

Privatize Medicare?

Cos making MC a for-profit concern is sure to bring administrative costs down?

Damn, this guy's a moronic toady fer the powers-that-be.

His alternative GOP budget is a POS.

Be Well.

Cost controls only work if the fed stops spending.

I don't think Republicans can do it. They'll probably see money and try and start another war.

Paul Ryan?

That's the whack job who wants to cut taxes on the top 5% by 25% aint he?

Posted by dethspud

Why not just say that you haven't read the 95 Page plan, and leave it at that?

Why not just say that you haven't read the 95 Page plan, and leave it at that?
#14 | Posted by wisgod

Because it's really only 65-pages long (minus 10-pages of blank filler)?

The 10-pages of blank filler is to entertain the Democrat simpletons while it's discussed in the House. He hands out crayola's too.

Basically this is just a political stunt by Ryan.

Done specifically so that the rethugs can say down the road that "Hey, we put forth a plan that woulda cut the deficit by 2080!"

Never mind that the plan is unworkable.

That it's based on economic indicators remaining static fer the next 70 years.

That it rewards the already well off individuals and the mega-corporations and does so by gutting medicare and making health care too expensive for seniors to afford.

Weakminded asswipes like Wussy may buy in but Spud just laughs at him.

LOL.

Be Well.

The 10-pages of blank filler...
#17 | Posted by wisgod

Still leaves Ryan's plan 30-pages short of the length you claimed it to be when you challenged Spud on what you describe as a "95 Page plan." How --- if you ever stop bobbing and weaving --- do you explain that one, Professor Lobachevsky?

... but Spud just laughs at him.

I'll bet it bothers him as much as the laughter and derision you bring upon yourself daily with your third person cutesy-speak

Aw come on, Doc

It's got a spiffy cover.

Although it does kinda remind me of grade school when you had to write a 100 word essay and dammit, you counted every word, even "a" and "the" and the nun wouldn't get anything more than exactly 100 words, period.

Basically this is just a political stunt by Ryan.

Posted by dethspud

Yeah, you stupid shit. Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions, Kiddie Clown.

Have you counted the pages yet, doc drunkis?

This plan that screws the elderly will never fly. Most republicans will need SS and Medicare. They won't be voting for this and neither will I.

Why not just say that you haven't read the 95 Page plan, and leave it at that?

He's talking about simplifying the tax code by making people earning under 100,000 pay a flat 10 percent fee and people over that pay 25%.

That's a tax raise fer many Americans that is a tax cut to the richest.

Not even factoring in his "plan" to eliminate estate taxes and capitol gains and taxes on money made through interest.

He talks about reducing the American corporate tax rate to 8.5 per cent.

Simply put it's a sop to the rich that will guarantee America becomes a third world country as far as the vast majority of it's citizens are concerned.

Raising the retirement age of people might werk fer folks who don't do physical werk fer a living but fer many it would simply be cruel.

Ya wanna try arguing for any of that shit, Wussy?

GL w/ THAT.

Be Well.

They won't be voting for this and neither will I.

#25 | Posted by jackass

No shit? You're not a Congressman either?

I suppose we could do a poll on how one counts pages.

And whether blank pages count.

And do we deduct for half-pages?

Wussy challenges Spud on Ryan's GOPiggie alternative budget, claiming it's 95-pages long. He gets called on it and then the dunce, after much googling, finally comes up with what he appears to think is a 95-page budget which isn't a 95-page budget. What a hoot!

I'll leave you to Wussy's owl impersonation and check in later. Maybe he'll have sobered up by then.

Yeah, you stupid shit. Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions, Kiddie Clown.

You're correct. Now we can move to Republicans offer really horrible and unthought out plans. They really should have stuck to "No."

That's rich, Doc Shined up....

The House Republican Budget Altenative (H.Con.Res 85)"--- minus the 30-pages Wussy made up --- can be found at www.house.gov

#16 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at

H.CON.RES.85
Title: Setting forth the congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2010 and including the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2009 and 2011 through 2014.
Sponsor: Rep Spratt, John M., Jr. [SC-5] (introduced 3/27/2009)

Wisgod would you be ok if SS and Medicare became gutted? What pvt insurance company would even bother with the risk of Insuring elderly clients that are most certainly going to cost a lot of money? Not many if any at all.

Wisgod would you be ok if SS and Medicare became gutted?
Posted by jackass

No, it wouldn't.

Jackass, read pages 51 and 52.

The party of no plans has become the party of no reality based plans.

Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions

A solution?

Wot's the problem?

How to destroy the last vestiges of a healthy and burgeoning middle class?

If that's the question then Ryan's plan is indeed a solution.

A Final Solution.

Yer doing far better under Obama's plan than you would under Ryans.

Why do rtards continually vote against their own self interest?

Blind partisanship or just basic retardation?

Both?

Be Well.

Dems have been buying votes for years out of the social security trust fund. That will not stop until they run the country into bankruptcy. Update: We are already bankrupt. It is too late.

We are steadily becoming more vulnerable to economic disaster on an epic scale.

We should never bailout fraudsters. If any bailout was actually vital to our national security it should be conditional on firing top management, restricting the use of bailout money to activities which contribute to economic recovery, and eliminating future bonuses until institutional solvency is restored and FULL taxpayer money is returned. $90 billion back over ten years for $13 trillion in "loans" does not qualify.

Yer doing far better under Obama's plan than you would under Ryans.

Posted by dethspud

Yeah, if I wanted to own Spanish and Chinese wind mills, High speed trains from Spain and an American Car Company....

"Dems have been buying votes for years out of the social security trust fund."

Medicare Part D. Passed by Republicans in the middle of the night, unfunded and prohibits negotiations with drug companies for lower prices.
Your partisan blindness is showing again.

"prohibits negotiations with drug companies for lower prices"

Fail.

Should read:

prohibits GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO drug companies for lower prices

THIS IS JUST WRONG...

dont EVEN try and tell me this..
because as WE ALL KNOW>..
republicans are just the party of NO and this would mean they have had ideas all along....and we have been told that time after time after time here and SURELY you dont think ANY of our liberal poster BROS here would just have MADE THAT UP.
now DO YOU???????????????????????????
????

Dems have been buying votes for years out of the social security trust fund."

Medicare Part D. Passed by Republicans in the middle of the night, unfunded and prohibits negotiations with drug companies for lower prices.
Your partisan blindness is showing again.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2010

wait a min...your answer has absolutely NOTHING to do with the sentence you copied...
and ASK 10 seniors about part d and you will get 7 or 8 who like it very much..
However...we have to admit that even though this SS borrowing was started under LBJ for his GREAT SOCIETY bullshit...repubilcans have continued the THEFT....

Here we go with the progressive relativism-any attempt to cut spending will be smattered by progressives in both parties. Don't get stacked in the mud of the party machine. How about 10% cut across the spectrum of Government in 2010 and more next year. It is simple and does not require 2000pages...can't be done? Then we're doomed and 10% cut proposal will look heavenly in the upcoming chaos. There is an old World adage: "diarrhea usually follows the smorgasbord"

YO liberty

nice post...I sure hope you are wrong though....

"wait a min...your answer has absolutely NOTHING to do with the sentence you copied..."

Of course it does, the Republicans were buying the votes of seniors and at the same time giving a nice big wet kiss to BigPharma, all of it unfunded and thus part of the same borrowing from SS. Accusing the Dems after such an egregious episode of borrow and spend and giveaway to Big Pharma is pretty ridiculous.

"Dems have been buying votes for years out of the social security trust fund."

Medicare Part D. Passed by Republicans in the middle of the night, unfunded and prohibits negotiations with drug companies for lower prices.
Your partisan blindness is showing again.

-------

and the obama plan gives them even more without doing shit for the people.

I thought you were talking about the SS fund you see.I didnt know you were making another wild assed statement about everything in general...lol

SO...is it a breaking news item to know that a politician bought some votes?

HEY DANNI

maybe you can contact menendez and ask him how that shit is going for him today..

making sure that TWO of his biggest contributors got thier bailout money.
may not be illegal but then why did he keep thier identity a 'secret'...

hhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
mm

news at 11

I'd like the Dems to allow Ryan's proposal come to the floor for a vote. Let's see who on the right has the courage to vote for it.

Medicare, medicade, social security, fed sate and local pensions including HC, are ALL very important.

I believe there are solutions for each, all of which require a lot of thoughtful, constructive workouts. Michael Medved had a person on the air yesterday, a former US comptroller, and he offered several good constructive ideas for the big 3 SS, medicare, and medicade.

We must live within our means. As danforth recently offered, a means test on SS bene's is a good starting point

... but Spud just laughs at him.

I'll bet it bothers him as much as the laughter and derision you bring upon yourself daily with your third person cutesy-speak

#20 | Posted by goatman

Doesn't sound so "cutesy" today. Passive/aggressive?

Doesn't sound so "cutesy" today.

I was talking on more general terms. It was still third person, though.

A means test? So, if I am a worthless piece of shit (like a lot of the lefties here appear to be) and save none of my earnings for 50 years (assuming they ever get off their ass and worked)... I would get some welfare from the government. However, if I actually work hard, save some of my own money, and am a RESPONSIBLE adult, all I get from the government is a big "FUCK YOU".

Yup, sounds like the liberal position. Wonder if that means testing will come with a tube of KY.

Good for Ryan---now both sides have some ideas and the art of compromise can now start--like a lot of what he has suggested but it certainly can be modified---the taxes will be a plus for the middleclass---would like the high wage earners to pay more on a progressive scale---like the ideas of making individuals more accountable for their healthcare which will drive down healthcare costs over time--it'll force healthcare companies to become more cost efficient over time and bring products that really address needed healthcare without the frills. Social security is not that difficult to address if they push out the years of eligibility over time.

I believe there are solutions for each, all of which require a lot of thoughtful, constructive workouts. Michael Medved had a person on the air yesterday, a former US comptroller, and he offered several good constructive ideas for the big 3 SS, medicare, and medicade.

We must live within our means. As danforth recently offered, a means test on SS bene's is a good starting point

#52 | Posted by DavetheWave

That former comptroller was probably David Walker who has been warning for years about the day of reckoning that we are now facing.

Dems should be jumping all over this to get the seniors vote. This plan throws seniors under the bus.

Dems should be jumping all over this to get the seniors vote. This plan throws seniors under the bus.

#58 | Posted by Sycophant

Not necessarily, it would give seniors a chance to make their own decisions and would be phased in over time not hurting them as much as thought.

"As danforth recently offered, a means test on SS bene's is a good starting point"

Thanks for the nod, but I don't believe I was the one who suggested that. My main suggestion was extending the retirement age, as an acknowledgment we're all living longer. My proposal was to add -- to today's formula -- one month for every year someone has until retirement. That doesn't screw any current retirees, and anyone younger than, say, 54 has over a decade to plan for one or more extra years of work. A means test, OTOH, would be seen by the wealthier as yet another type of welfare.

Another suggestion is raise the employer and employee percentages a half-point or one point apiece. That might seem huge, but we can't go from 6 payers per user to less than 3 without some serious overhauls or an increase in taxes.

And one more suggestion would be to stop allowing politicians to use it as a political football or a cash cow. Get some REAL Trustees in there, with a David Walker-type as the Chair.

Dems should be jumping all over this to get the seniors vote. This plan throws seniors under the bus.

#58 | Posted by Sycophant

Not necessarily, it would give seniors a chance to make their own decisions and would be phased in over time not hurting them as much as thought.

#59 | Posted by matsop

Getting to the age where it'll affect me, at first blush, I don't have a problem with it since I care about my kids and grandkids. I'm willing to make sacrifices for them if it won't throw future generations under the bus.

As danforth recently offered, a means test on SS bene's is a good starting point"

Thanks for the nod, but I don't believe I was the one who suggested that. My main suggestion was extending the retirement age, as an acknowledgment we're all living longer. My proposal was to add -- to today's formula -- one month for every year someone has until retirement. That doesn't screw any current retirees, and anyone younger than, say, 54 has over a decade to plan for one or more extra years of work. A means test, OTOH, would be seen by the wealthier as yet another type of welfare.

Another suggestion is raise the employer and employee percentages a half-point or one point apiece. That might seem huge, but we can't go from 6 payers per user to less than 3 without some serious overhauls or an increase in taxes.

And one more suggestion would be to stop allowing politicians to use it as a political football or a cash cow. Get some REAL Trustees in there, with a David Walker-type as the Chair.

#60 | Posted by Danforth

Agree---you might not even have to increase FICA if you continue to push back eligibility as mentioned.

As I've been saying for a year now, PAUL RYAN in 2012~! Or, Mike Pence...or...

#5 | Posted by nanc at 2010-02-10 12:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

...anybody but the present potus** or Sarah Palin.

#6 | Posted by nanc

We all know you voted for Bush. You have been disqualified from being able to make any intelligent voting decisions so We are taking away your voter registration until you take the new Republican literacy test proposed by Tom Tancredo.

Nanc has an IQ of less than 100. I doubt she could pass a remedial reading test much less any voter qualification test.

Violent cuts?

Couldn't you call teh 80 years of overspending "violent theft"? This would just then be a cessation of that....

A "violent cut" is a total cut without a gradual reduction.

Sooner we do it, the cheaper it is...I know, the babyboomers will whine.....so what?

Probably right. The problem with "violent cuts" is the short term damage they tend to cause. I always prefer a gradual cut so people can adjust.

A federal budget that doesn't run up huge debt and exist on deficit spending?

Positively Clintonian. Last Republican to say he was going to run surpluses and pay off the debt by cutting taxes of the have mores was Dubya. How'd that work out?

yeah it was dave Walker. His solution was very complex, and had a lot of parts to it, like extending the age for qualification for younger people. (Under 55) A means test was but 1 of perhaps 5 ideas he expressed about SS. It can be done, but won't be easy.

Oh and btw SS is a very small issue compared to medicare and medicaid.

In the end "Violent Revolution" is the Only Solution that will have have any effect against these Right Wing,Republican Fascist Bastards!!!

Oh and btw SS is a very small issue compared to medicare and medicaid.

#70 | Posted by DavetheWave

It pales compared to the other 2.

In the end "Violent Revolution" is the Only Solution that will have have any effect against these Right Wing,Republican Fascist Bastards!!!

#71 | Posted by AntiCadillac

Sure, kill all the people that actually have a job... how is that going to make your lazy ass get a bigger welfare check? What, are you going to implement a slavery system? Force the children into indentured servitude to foreign banks so you can get a new tv? Future generations should, and hopefully will, find people like you and beat the stupid out of them... then piss on your bloody corpse.

Paul Ryan?
That's the whack job who wants to cut taxes on the top 5% by 25% aint he?
Apparently completely unaware that the top tier tax payers in the US almost never pay their rate due to lobbied loopholes.
See also: Corporate taxes.
What the fuck is the problem with Rtards?
Swear to gawd those morons think tax cuts cure cancer.
Privatize Medicare?
Cos making MC a for-profit concern is sure to bring administrative costs down?
Damn, this guy's a moronic toady fer the powers-that-be.
His alternative GOP budget is a POS.
Be Well.

#12 | POSTED BY DETHSPUD

This asshole is a complete fucking whackadoo. I notice the military isn't mentioned anywhere in this so called proposal. The military accounts for almost 1 TRILLION dollars a year now not including the supplementals and ancillary support bills for "special" projects. Fucking nuts.

Yeah, you stupid shit. Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions, Kiddie Clown.

#23 | POSTED BY WISGOD

Implement his solution and repukes will never hold an office again in america.

Sure, kill all the people that actually have a job... how is that going to make your lazy ass get a bigger welfare check? What, are you going to implement a slavery system? Force the children into indentured servitude to foreign banks so you can get a new tv? Future generations should, and hopefully will, find people like you and beat the stupid out of them... then piss on your bloody corpse.

#73 | POSTED BY 1LIBERTARIAN

Huh? The rest of us are living off the tit and not working?.. a Giant fuck you. Future Generations should throw your ass into the tub grinder and use your worthless rendered meat in a protein stew for plants.. Then you would be worth something.

"Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions"

I hate to break it to you, but throwing more gas on a gasoline fire isn't really a solution.

Hey, legio, if you are working and paying into social security and are told you will never get anything out of the system, you are being robbed. Same as I am.

Based on your post, however, I seriously doubt that even grinding your worthless carcass up for fish-food would begin to repay the debt you owe the world. Some people are just completly worthless. You sound like one of those whinny-assed bitches that sits on their lazy ass, commplaining cause their welfare checks aren't big enough, and selling your vote to whatever fucker offers you a biger handout, regardless of how that is going to damage future generations. In that case, a big FUCK OFF AND DIE before you completely bankrupt the future generations.

okay so this post isnt to stick it to any liberal but for information

just heard a segment on beck that talked about the depression of 1920 and how the numbers show that it was worse than 1929...
also that they cut spending in half and cut taxes and unemployment was down to a little more than one PER CENT by 1926 and the recession was over by 1922..

anyone know of a source where I can find out more about that since I know that most of you here have a hatefull blind spot towards beck...

If I thought he was just thinking outside the box, proposing something so the CBO can analyze it so he can then take it back to try and work out the problems with it (i.e., fucking over old people), I might get behind the guy.

I have the feeling this is just porn for the tea party, though.

Now go back to claimimg the Republicans offer no solutions"

I hate to break it to you, but throwing more gas on a gasoline fire isn't really a solution.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at

but that hasnt been the lie yelled around dc or the retort now has it...
the lie has always been some sort of nonsense about the party of NO....when there are plans online and I linked a photo yesterday of gopers holding up plans in the house while obama was accusing them of having no plans...

porn for the tea party?

do I have to sign up somewhere?

#40 Danni> Your partisan blindness is showing again.

So speaketh the queen of partisan blindness (most of the time). You have continually told us how we cannot stop Federal spending because that is helping keep us from falling into the financial abyss called A DEPRESSION. Yet you frequently carp about all the spending GW did during his two terms in office. Doesn't that sound just a bit hypocritical?

I mean, GW and cronies from both sides of the aisle spent money far beyond the shekels coming into federal coffers (classic definition of wreckless spending, IMO). Using your logic, and I'm being generous calling it that, that could have been the only thing keeping our economy afloat.

Yet when BO and his cronies, mostly on one side of the aisle, are spending far more than what is flowing into federal coffers, you spout with righteous indignation when any of us dare to mention the dreaded term "spending cuts".

I was against GW's terrible spending policies and am even more against BO's far worse spending policies. We are piling a huge load of debt on the backs of future generations.

prohibits GOVERNMENT DICTATING TO drug companies for lower prices

#41 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD at 2010-02-10 10:24 AM | Reply | Flag

Perhaps you have a example of this happening.

Kind of like how Walmart "negotiates" with suppliers.

I forgot the blanket Walmart=good in wing ding land.

porn for the tea party?

do I have to sign up somewhere?

#82 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-02-11 11:19 AM | Reply

As the comic relief.

I forgot the blanket Walmart=good in wing ding land.

Anything that saves me money is good. Let me guess, 726, you'll pass a WalMart, drive an extra two miles and pay more elsewhere because you despise WalMart so -- am I right, Mr. Self Righteous?

No wonder lefties are always so poor. They stupidly pay more for their goods rather than go to a WalMart and pay less.

"As you all know by now, the long-term budget deficit is largely driven by health-care costs"

No, not healcare costs, it's healthcare insurance a.k.a. Medicare, Medicaid, and it can be fixed by competition (state lines), portability (pre-existing), tort reform (malpractice ins costs). The entitlement programs in general have caused these deficit. Once again, government is not the solution for the problem, government IS the problem.

Paul Ryan voted for Bush's TARP bailout. In his interview where he was asked about this, he cited Jonah Goldberg and the fear that if the economy crashed, it would usher in Obama -and a naziesque liberalism statist "solution." Goldberg's revisionism of HItler as a liberal is popular with the Right these days, who use it to ignore their Authoritarian bent.

Here's Ryan's own words:

"I'm a limited-government, free-enterprise guy, but TARP... represented a moment where we had no good options and we were about to fall into a deflationary spiral,"

"I believe Obama would not only have won, but would have been able to sweep through a huge statist agenda very quickly because there would have been no support for the free-market system."

So, Republican darling of the Right, Ryan, admits that the bailouts helped save us.

Funny how liberalism was used to save us from liberalism.

What a twisted mind.