The problem is that they will be forced to make a quick fix. If there as not so much hysteria and adequate time is granted then the solution becomes a better one.

I know it's wrong but secretly I am happy that Toyota is having so many problems. Well, I guess it isn't so secret now.

I know it's wrong but secretly I am happy that Toyota is having so many problems.

no shit? We are shocked.

I'm sure will be happy when 3,000 workers at the Camry plant get fired too.

Because afterall, you care about workers in the country.

LOL

#2 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-09 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag: Obviously oblivious to the fact she drives a foriegn car not made in the USA

The War on Toyota continues.

"The War on Toyota continues."

It's not a war it's media driven hysteria just like the explorer-Firestone thing.

"it's media driven hysteria"

Remember when Audi's were supposedly taking themselves out of park, into drive and accelerating when the brake was applied?

These people are simply too stupid to operate a motor vehicle.

"These people are simply too stupid to operate a motor vehicle."

Are you suggesting that the toyota drivers should pay for the repair as some sort of stupid tax?

Computer glitches happen. Finding and fixing them can be time consuming and difficult. Modern cars have extreamly complex systems. I hope that this problem is quickly found and solved, and that no one else is harmed.

#8 | Posted by salamandagator at 2010-02-09 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag: confuses Toyota and Audi

How that accelerator pedal AJ?

These people are simply too stupid to operate a motor vehicle.

So a Veteran California State Highway Patrol officer does not know how to drive?

It was a joke zat.

"So a Veteran California State Highway Patrol officer does not know how to drive?"

No one is immune from stupidity.
The car accelerates, pop it in neutral and brake or turn the ignition off and brake remembering that you can lock the steering wheel and you may loose some of of your brake assist. Not difficult, i have had throttles stick before it takes all of half a second before the problem is solved if you have a little common sense.

But for you 726, i'm sure it would be a life threatening ordeal.

Sal,

Thanks for your concern. But I don't drive Jap death traps.

I am sure that I could find the nearest car with a W bumper sticker and could ram it.

Besides stupidity, is there any other reason why they can't put their car in neutral?

I'll bet Toyota is going to get a flood of lawsuits for every kind of accident their cars are involved in.

I do know that it is possible to start a Porsche Cayenne in drive. You hafta work it just right, and your foot'll be on the brake anyway, but it's a little startling the first time it happens.

The cars don't have a real ignition switch. It's a button that you have to press for three seconds. The on/off switch is computer controlled.

The real problem is GM is now owned by the Government and a long rival of Toyota. Now Obama's Government Motors is fighting dirty!!! What a joke!!!!!

"Now Obama's Government Motors is fighting dirty!!! What a joke!!!!!"

The joke is on America, The Japanese government has colluded with Toyota for decades to prevent the importation of competitive autos and to undercut American manufacturers in the US market.

Not to mention Pontiac...

#20 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2010-02-10 10:07 AM | REPLY | FLAG: Belongs to the school of It's-never-our-fault

"Belongs to the school of It's-never-our-fault"

No, belongs to the school of we treat other countries much more fairly than they treat us.
I think most Americans would agree with that.

i drive a subura with manual transmission.

i understand the concept of neutral.

automatic is lame.

No, belongs to the school of we treat other countries much more fairly than they treat us.
I think most Americans would agree with that.

Hells yeah, even a Canuck'd agree to that.

Case in point the Japanese car invasion of the 70s.

The Japanese car companies essentially did a lot of dumping which is to say they sold cars on the American market at a loss in order to build market share.

America had laws on the books preventing America from doing the same to other countries but no law preventing it from happening to America.

In hindsight that was kinda dumb.

Be Well.

No, belongs to the school of we treat other countries much more fairly than they treat us.
I think most Americans would agree with that.
#23 | POSTED BY DANNI

Most Americans are deluded like you.

I had a Buick that started rusting from the day I drove it out the showroom. Then I had an Olds that burned oil like a two cylinder engine. I haven't driven an American car since the 80s. They're crap. My Toyota Solara is eleven years old and still drives and looks like its new. Reputations are earned.

Uncle Sam is his user name and he'a defending Toyota...what a traitor piece of shit...

Uncle Sam must live in Kentucky and work at the ToyoAmerica plant for $8.00/hr, suckin up to Mitch McConnell, heh?

The US government, as with the Japanese government, as with the German government, have a vested interest in their auto manufacturers. Is this something new? Don't think so.

Your bullet proof, ho-hum designed, old lady Camry sucks as much as Palin's "retarded" speeches.

Posted by ArmyVet at 2010-02-10 10:46 AM | Reply

*prefer's "American" autos made anywhere but here.

"Feds: Toyota Isn't Doing Enough for Safety"

Common sense: The Feds aren't doing enough to teach Americans how to DRIVE properly.

This is a huge issue for me. Most Americans get a couple of weeks one summer to "learn" how to point a car with an automatic gearbox from someone who isn't much more qualified to teach than the student. This travasty passes for driver "training" in this country. Then everyone wonders why this kind of thing happens. It's funny that no other country in the world seems to be having such a huge issue with this exact same model of Toyota.

See the problem is this: Americans view cars as appliances or even status symbols, they are a means to an end, they get you to where you are going, period. While most of us Euro-trash view driving as an art form, something to excel at, something that helps us relax, have fun, enjoy life. It's simply convenient that we end up somewhere we want to be after we are done recreating. As such the attitude of teaching people to drive properly is totally different. It's NOT AT ALL uncommon to fail your driving test multiple times in the UK for example as it's actually hard to get a license. You have to competently display minor items like CAR CONTROL and common sense before they take your $40, stamp your hand, and turn you loose to kill your fellow man in your 3000lb steel and glass machine.

Who am I to say these things? Well, I'm sure I'm going to get chewed up for saying things that no one likes to hear but the truth is this:

I have driven on both sides of the Atlantic, I do hold a US license with endorsements (MCY, CDL Class A), an English drivers license (with MCY endorsement), a W-Hills Regional racing license, an SCCA Regional racing license, and an SCCA US National racing license. All of these licenses except one involved some type of serious classroom time and time on either a racetrack or a skidpad learning car control and honing high speed (and low speed) driving skills. Guess which license didn't require these things?

In my opinion the best thing that could happen to the American driving public would be site to site teleporters.

Your bullet proof, ho-hum designed, old lady Camry sucks as much as Palin's "retarded" speeches.

That's why my next car will be German. Who the fuck designs their cars? Even the Lexus is boring.

translation: pay us off.

#19 | Posted by Unclesam

The real problem is GM is now owned by the Government and a long rival of Toyota. Now Obama's Government Motors is fighting dirty!!! What a joke!!!!!
---------------
The mainstream Media which loves Obama will be doing 24/7 news coverage on this.

You will see that govmoto will say only so called "skilled" union workers should build these cars. You could train a monkey to do SOME of the jobs on an auto assembly line. Bolting parts on is not a skilled trade.

#29 | Posted by boyracer_x at 2010-02-10 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

+1

There are actually two terms, driver (who can CONTROL the car) and operator (which appears on many state licenses).

90c2cab...another blame it all on Obama dead head. First of all the buy out of GM started on Bush's watch for those with Alzheimers disease. A pubbie has been brainwashed once again. Toyota's problems stem from over complicated mechanisms in certain devices that should never be too complicated like braking systems and throttle controls. Of course they will be problematic. Their bodies are made out of recycled Gisha brand tuna cans so they rust like a tin can too. Let's thank the government for oversight in this matter. Toyota needs a nanny state investigation, not a free pass.

BTW...I have an old Ford pickup with close to half a million miles on it. Try that with a Toyota.

#35 | POSTED BY RINGMASTER

for your consideration

I think that this is a symptom of a larger problem. I think that we've been making cars (on both sides of the pond) more complicated than they need to be.

I came to this conclusion about a month ago when someone broke into my Jeep Wrangler and tried to hotwire it. While they were unsuccessful, they managed to burn up all the computers that feed information to my instrument console, my blinkers, and possibly the controller for my cooling fan. I spent about an hour under the dash trying to get the car to start, and eventually I was able to get it to recognize the key and start (by bypassing the starter solenoid). I pulled it out of the way, parked it on the street, and started my 1950 Plymouth.

So far, my Jeep has been to two different repair shops. One with a stellar reputation was unable to fix it, and punted it to the dealership (who after three weeks are also having issues getting it fixed). In the meantime, I'm driving a 60 year old car (that I've rebuilt) and thus I feel qualified to say where and when we fucked up.

In the old days, we used carburators to provide fuel to a gasoline engine. They were mechanically controlled. A series of steel rods ran to the carb and actually opened and closed the carb and there was a spring that returned the gas pedal to idle when one's foot wasn't applying pressure. It was simple and one could pretty much figure out how to work on it. We then went to fuel injection sometime in the 1980s. If I'm not mistaken, there was still a cable that ran to the throttle body on the early fuel injected cars. You were physically controlling the fuel injection system, (I believe the air flow) and the fuel injection system adjusted the amount of fuel delivered.

We then went to drive by wire. When one presses the gas pedal, they aren't directly interfacing with the fuel delivery system. They are adjusting a potentiometer, which is measured by a computer and it's position is translated into a digital value, transmitted via serial connection to the fuel injection system, and then a computer decodes that information and translates it into what position to open the airflow valves and how much fuel to deliver to the engine. This is all done in software and when it works it's great. When it doesn't, it becomes a pain in the ass to fix and in this case Toyota's engineers had real difficulties figuring out what the root cause was (and there is a great deal of skepticism as to whether the figured it out or not).

The problem that we've run into is that we are making cars more complicated for the sake of making them more complicated. I'm an Electrical Engineer and I'm not adverse to technological advances. I'm just opposed to adding technology to a vehicle that doesn't serve any real purpose and makes it more difficult for the owner to service at the same time.

For example, let's compare the damaged instrumentation in my Jeep to what would happen in my Plymouth. My Jeep has a fuel gauge, odometer, temperature gauge, speedometer and a Tachometer. It also has a check engine light and oil pressure light. This whole system is fed via some type of serial protocol from a variety of different electronic sensors. To repair the damage done to my car it will cost thousands of dollars and that is with the aid of a computerized diagnostic and programming tool that costs around $4000. The technology used and tools required have successfully placed this beyond my capabilities.

In comparison, my 1950 Plymouth has fuel, oil pressure, and temperature gauges. It also has speedometer, an aftermarket tachometer, and an odometer. Assuming I had to replace all of the gauges (there are 4 gauge clusters on the vehicle) and they run around $50 bucks a pop. The tach, speedometer, all temperature gauge all require special cables that cost around $20 each. The oil pressure gauge requires a .50 rubber hose. With basic handtools I could fix the same problem as my Jeep for around $260.50 in about 2 hours, myself. This is with parts I am paying a premium for because they haven't been mass produced in 60 years.

I get more information from the older dash, and it's easier to fix and maintain, what's the point of the new dash? I contend the main purpose of most electronic dodads in a modern automobile is planned obsolescence. Eventually, over time, parts will start to fail, and as a result the owner will end up paying a mechanic (at about $100 bucks an hours) to repair it, since they can no longer repair it themselves. Eventually, they get fed up with the repair bills, the time spent without a vehicle, so they go buy a new car and the cycle repeats.

The early 80's were the last days when the average owner could turn a wrench and fix most of the problems on their vehicle in the comfort of their own driveway. Next time you get in your car and take a drive, pay attention to the other cars on the road, especially the older cars. For example, compare the number of early 80's and late 70's vehicles that you see, and compare that number to the how many late 80's and early 90's vehicles you see. I'd be willing to bet that you see more of the early 80's than 90's. The reason is, you can keep them running with alot less effort.

I wish we could lax the emissions controls a little bit, make cars simpler to work on, and also change the American mentality back to the mentality where you don't go buy a new car every 3 years (on credit). Instead, you buy a car, you take care of it, and you make it last. I'm not saying we ditch PCV and EGR valves, or even fuel injection, we just make it so the average person can fix the car in their driveway when it breaks and in turn they hold onto it longer. The emissions from manufacturing a new car is actually equivelant to having a car on the road for a few years. I think, in the long term, that we'd break even from an environmental standpoint, and the average American family would probably save quite a bit of money.

John

I have an old Ford pickup with close to half a million miles on it. Try that with a Toyota.

#35 | POSTED BY RINGMASTER

Let me guess, it has a 4.9L straight 6 and a manual gearbox.

Just coincidence that the US Government now owns most of the US car companies and the sudden revelation that Toyota is a big bad company that hid it's mistakes?

Uncle Sam must live in Kentucky and work at the ToyoAmerica plant for $8.00/hr, suckin up to Mitch McConnell, heh?

Try $30/hr asshole.

all without a union.

go figure.

I have an old Ford pickup with close to half a million miles on it. Try that with a Toyota.

#35 | POSTED BY RINGMASTER

I'll bet you are one helluva chick magnet.

" ROCKLEIGH, N.J., Nov. 23 -- The Guinness Book of Records has officially named a 1966 Volvo P1800 as the vehicle holding the record for the 'Highest Car Mileage.' The car currently has over 1,671,000 miles and is driven every day by its original owner, Irv Gordon of East Patchogue, New York who purchased the car brand new in 1966 from Volvoville in Massapequa, New York. "

Let me guess, it has a 4.9L straight 6 and a manual gearbox.

Nope, it's a 1986 2.3 ltr 4 cyl EFI fuel injected engine w/manual 5 speed trans. I have rebuilt the head twice, but never touched the lower end. The difference is the fact that I am a decent mechanic and I bought the factory service manual for it when I bought it used in 1992. I am meticulous with all my cars and they all run great. I have found that every couple of years it's a good idea to clean the electrical connectors on the engine and related devices. The VOG from the volcano here reeks havoc on the copper.

I must say your post are very well thought out and I agree the latest generation of vehicles are way to dependent on electronic systems. Especially the Japanese cars. They are designed to be recycled every 6 to 8 years. There won't be any vintage Toyotas on the road that are 25 years or older, but my old Ford truck will probably still be running.

I also still own a 1971 Mercedes with a 4cyl gas engine and it is still running, but neglected because it's just too heavy for economical use any more.

The consequences: Government (the owner of GM-Government Motors) will destroy any competition by any means-and they can do it too. At the end we'll all end-up driving Trabants...