If he's looking to make the bill more popular, tort reform and eliminating individual mandates are what the republicans can offer.

Live or die-
What effect would incorporating tort reform and eliminating the mandate have on bending the curve of rising health care costs?

The Man opens his Big Tent to uglies who'd wipe The Man off the map. Sad.

Tort reform would legitimatize medics leaving scalpels inside patients and sawing off the right leg when the left one is gangrenous. I say pass the goddam health bill now and screw the uglies. herm

Live or die-
I'm almost surprise you don't include selling insurance across state lines with no overriding national standards, which would amount to turning health insurance into what we have seen with credit card companies: they set up in the few states with the most lax regulations and fuck you until they are sore from the effort, and then they do it again.

Looks like Herm learned a new word, uglies. Did that win the you Scrabble title this weekend at the Retirement Village?

"...uglies. Did that win the you Scrabble title this weekend at the Retirement Village?"

Spellcheck and ol' Wissywuss challenge "uglies." But seriously, folks, can anyone think of a better word for the great unwashed evolution-denying, fetal rights-upholding evangelical right? herm

What effect would incorporating tort reform and eliminating the mandate have on bending the curve of rising health care costs?

#2 | Posted by BetelG at 2010-02-08 02:38 PM | Flag: Retarded

Live or die-
I'm almost surprise you don't include selling insurance across state lines with no overriding national standards, which would amount to turning health insurance into what we have seen with credit card companies: they set up in the few states with the most lax regulations and fuck you until they are sore from the effort, and then they do it again.

#4 | Posted by BetelG at 2010-02-08 02:46 PM

Live or die-
re: "I didn't say it would, now did I?"

Sure didn't. You got me on that one, LOL!

Live or Die-

Seems like I misread your comments, so my apologies for that.

"letting people buy into Medicare"

Coincidentally that option wasn't listed in the poll, it never is. Most people realize the majority wants single payer and it would be the best for our economy but the corporate owned media isn't willing to even discuss it.

Seems like I misread your comments, so my apologies for that.

#10 | Posted by BetelG at 2010-02-08 02:59 PM

But seriously, folks, can anyone think of a better word for the great unwashed evolution-denying, fetal rights-upholding evangelical right? herm

#6 | Posted by herm

Uglies is fine Herm. Now finish your Jello before Wheel of Fortune, like a big boy.

The only winning move is to call this turkey of a bill as D.E.A.D. and start over. America has agreed that this whole effort has been going in the wrong direction. Hell, even Mass voted to send a person to congress to kill this bill. Why the Dems keep trying to dry-hump this dead horse I'll never understand. Enough. Bury this with the corpse of Teddy and start over.

Make a bill that is simple, clean, open, and addresses the problems that cause increased cost.

1) Defensive medical procedures.
2) Cost of malpractice ins (esp. ob-gyns)
3) Cost of drugs
4) Denial of claims for silly reasons
5) Denial of insurance for pre-existing conditions
6) Limited choice of insurance providers
7) Group policies -- employer' paid insurance plans
8) Lack of negotiation
9) Ever increasing amounts of paperwork and paper-pushers
10) Lawyers

"4) Denial of claims for silly reasons
5) Denial of insurance for pre-existing conditions"

How exactly do these problems cause increased cost?

Sit down, shut up, hang on, and only speak when you are spoken to.

Obeyme

The Republicans should cut that class from Professor Barry the Scold.

"4) Denial of claims for silly reasons
5) Denial of insurance for pre-existing conditions"

How exactly do these problems cause increased cost?

#15 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2010-02-08 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was wondering the same thing, dude.

1Libertarian?

Why is this news? Oh, because the Dems and Obama have completely restricted Republicans from past participation. Must be that bipartisanship thing. Only now they can try to blame the Republicans, too, when the public goes off the deep end and tells them to shove the bill up their asses. And now he can also bring in the cameras and say he put it all on TV, just like he promised. Good ol' Barry. Sort of like chasing the horses into the burning barn with a camera, but at least he's seen the light. Yea, right.

Look. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama made it quite clear they were willing to do tort reform, 4 months ago, when they were trying to wheedle a vote out of Collins or Snowe. If that's all they had to concede to get something passed, they'd do it in a heartbeat, and you damned well know it.

After all, 37 states already have tort reform. It's amounted to a molehill of jack-crap zero effect whatsoever, either for health costs or the profits of the legal industry.

What they aren't going to do is pass it on its own. That's because it's a very easy trading card. We get Snowe and Lieberman to hold on the filibuster, and you get tort reform. Reid may be dumb as a post, but even he's not stupid enough to throw away that card without some kind of real agreement.

I do agree that it would be a mistake fro Republicans to put their ideas on the table, in public, in a format with Obama. They would get schooled, just as they were last month at the little summit they foolishly invited Obama to attend.

Limbaugh is right about this. Republicans have no ideas to bend the curve, and what few good ideas they had were already incorporated into the senate bill. The best they can politically hope for is to bring gov't action to a halt and blame it on the Democrats in the next election.

SpokaneJim-
re: And now he can also bring in the cameras and say he put it all on TV, just like he promised.

If Republican ideas are so great, why would they suffer from sunlight?

The first doesn't directly impact the cost, but it does cause a large amount of the public dislike of the current system.

Case in point... one of my co-workers had a routine colonoscopy. However, they found a polup. Because of this discovery, the procedure went from "routine medical exam" which was covered at 100% to some other definition, which was only covered at 50%. She was on the phone for about 3 hrs... and at the end... still had no clue why she was now on the hook for a large chunk of money. People like this are more likely to fall for a "gov't will make it all better" lie.

As for the pre-existing conditions... often these people fall off insurances and then cannot get covered... resulting on them being unable to work (thus getting on disability and then getting medicaid/medicare). Not to mention that it is often cheaper in the long run to treat a problem than wait until it gets worse... like a diabetic that doesn't take insilin and then has to have toes or feet amputated.

Republicans have no ideas to bend the curve, and what few good ideas they had were already incorporated into the senate bill.

it's worth noting that neither party is really interested in any of the truly good ideas that could make meaningful reform.

public option
drug discounts
55+ buy into medicare
remove state based restrictions/barriers on where carriers can sell policies

we have a bill (not going to be passed) which did none of that which is why I think the parties are not all that far apart on this issue.

(re: Only now they can try to blame the Republicans, too, when the public goes off the deep end and tells them to shove the bill up their asses...)

Yeah, I heard Limbaugh cower at the very idea of Republicans presenting their ideas in the light of day, too. So did millions of listeners.

(Obama invites Repubs to submit on health care)...

Sure the piece of shit found out despite him and his Hitler totaltarian regime and their scheme of locking doors of the House to keep Repubs out before Christmas didn't work to force their evil agenda upon American citizens didn't go over so well.

Some people need to wake up and recognize this lying piece of shit for what he really is...

Eberly-
It is (they are) indeed watered down bills.

What is the Republican counter-proposal, and why do they fear airing their great ideas in a public forum?

What is the Republican counter-proposal, and why do they fear airing their great ideas in a public forum?

I honestly don't know.

"If Republican ideas are so great, why would they suffer from sunlight?"

They would not suffer, but turn the question around. If the Dem's bill was so very wonderful, why was it created behind closed doors in caucus meetings and with Obama? Why were the deals struck, not on the Senate and House floors, but hidden away? If Democrat ideas were so great, why did they suffer from sunlight? And where have the cameras been up until now?

1Libertarian-
re: As for the pre-existing conditions... often these people fall off insurances and then cannot get covered...

Which lowers the cost to private insures and increases the cost to everyone else, not to mention people dying.

Neither of those two earlier factors (as noted by montecore, and noticed by me) which you listed increase the cost of health insurance, but do increase the burden of health care costs for society at large.

Spokane and Eberly-

Let's get it all out in the open air and sunlight, folks. I'd love to hear it all aired out. I think it's called governance, or something - but it's been so long.

Is there a problem with that beyond the tactics of winning the next election cycle?

I hope everyone has a good afternoon and doesn't get really sick.

'til later.

(1Libertarian - "private insureRs")

Si Si Clintonistas!

NO No Tea Bags

Which lowers the cost to private insures and increases the cost to everyone else,

it raises the rates charged by the hospital to insurance companies.

Boyd,

stop worrying about the repub's plan (or lack thereof). It isn't a factor at this time as they are on the bench and can sit for a while.

worry about the players in the field.

or is that too much to ask?

THE TROUBLE WITH US HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE CARE.

The biggest problems affecting US health care today are:

A) the poor choices people make with their lifestyles,
B) the massive numbers of illegal immigrants showing up in ERs who by law must be treated,
C) lack of competition for insurance across state lines,
D) lack of price transparency
E) laws favoring trial lawyers not patients and physicians. Not just TORT Reform.

FIX THIS FIRST AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE REST, SECOND.

The Republicans "Patient's Choice Act 2008" has been shut out of the media since it was introduced.

Rep Paul Ryan (R) HC Plan was reviewed by G Will in Realclearpolitics this week.

It is a plan that supports a lower involvement by Govt in HC and covers the desireable outcomes of the legislation we hear/see on the boards: universal coverage, priced to markets, tax rebate driven, choice of coverage per the individual.

It also deals with Medicare/aid by cutting off participation in the program at 55 and going forward with the New HC Plan.

Worth a read, if you are serious on reform. He apparently is.

"They would not suffer, but turn the question around"

Turn it Around To what ------ the glaring fact they dismissed this issue for the last 12 years while our premiums grew and our services diminished?

Obamas ropin' the dopes! Which is what he should have been doing all along instead of attempting to penetrate their Force field of Politicized Stupid with themes of "bi-partisanship"?

The sour grapes "republicans" want to play politics with very real issues while their pundit driven inaction hurts Americans ---- and Obama should oblige them with the same level of devious political trickery.

"the massive numbers of illegal immigrants showing up in ERs who by law must be treated"

Current illegal estimates are at 42,306,695 people, with the American population at 308,624,000. that means, according to you, 13% of America is controlling the costs of the 87%?!?!?

Wow! You people Sure are Fucking Retarded!

re: As for the pre-existing conditions... often these people fall off insurances and then cannot get covered...
Which lowers the cost to private insures and increases the cost to everyone else, not to mention people dying.
Neither of those two earlier factors (as noted by montecore, and noticed by me) which you listed increase the cost of health insurance, but do increase the burden of health care costs for society at large.
#31 | Posted by BetelG

But they DO increase the cost in numerous ways. More people on any form of gov't payment swamps the system with cases taken at a loss. Hospitals make up the difference by passing the cost on to insured customers in the form of higher costs. If a hospital routinely treats people for less than the cost of maintaining the equipment because of gov't interference, they then have to make up the difference with those that are paying.

THE TROUBLE WITH US HEALTHCARE IS NOT THE CARE.
The biggest problems affecting US health care today are:
A) the poor choices people make with their lifestyles,
B) the massive numbers of illegal immigrants showing up in ERs who by law must be treated,
C) lack of competition for insurance across state lines,
D) lack of price transparency
E) laws favoring trial lawyers not patients and physicians. Not just TORT Reform.
FIX THIS FIRST AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE REST, SECOND.
#38 | Posted by GlennO

AMEN.

Lifestyle needs to be addressed, as does the illegal situation. However, when someone shows up to an emergency room for care, it is not humane to send them home to die because they are not legally here. That being the case, then we either have to treat them at that time, or find a way to treat them before it becomes critical and more expensive, or a way to round them up and ship them away. Personally, I prefer to send them all home. Might cost money in the short term, but would probably save money in the long term. As for the across state lines, that was the point of my item 6 lack of competition. And you and I are probably on the same page with lawyers as being a direct and indirect cause of health care costs.

"choice of coverage per the individual"

Umm, HMO's don't offer this currently --- is this another one of those "by magic" proposals (meaning it will become a reality By the means of Magic).

Finally it will be on TV.

"Turn it Around To what ------ the glaring fact they dismissed this issue for the last 12 years while our premiums grew and our services diminished?"

Another dumbfuck know-nothing that believes every talking point from the HuffnPuff and NYT. There have been hundreds of amendments offered, none accepted. There have been entire plans offered, completely ignored. Just because you can't gather the courage to examine the facts, or the intelligence apparently, doesn't mean that the Republicans haven't been working. You poor fuck, your knowledge fills a thimble while your ignorance cannot be measured with existing technology.

Just taking "Glenno's" first two reasons for the medical crisis:

"A) the poor choices people make with their lifestyles."

How would G. address this issue? I suppose like Billy El Cid's implied stationing of pregnancy cops in every bedroom, making sure that no one anywhere overeats."

"B) the massive numbers of illegal immigrants showing up in ERs who by law must be treated,"

The old "Christian" response, eh? If you see someone bleeding in the gutter, first ask for a green card. Without one, let 'em bleed. herm

A) the poor choices people make with their lifestyles."

How would G. address this issue?

I don't know. The options are appealing. But is IS a major reason for this crisis. We are very fat and unhealthy in this country and we have ourselves (and our total apathy) to blame.

-There have been hundreds of amendments offered, none accepted

160-something offered, 84 accepted... and that was in the Sen version alone.

-There have been entire plans offered

The last one was laughed out of existence by the CBO themselves.

And let me add that malpractice laws are the best friend the patient has. Without them, there would be no remedy for slipshod practice at all. But let's eliminate "malpractice insurance." Make the docs pay damages out of their own pockets. Second offense: Lifetime disbarment. Why not? herm

Now, who here does'nt realize that the dunce and thief is'nt up to something? Any Republican that goes to this cluster fuck is going to be tarnished by the party. obama has something evil up his sleeve, you can't trust him, everything he does is to blow up his own ego, and destroy the competition.
Don't turn your back on this asshole. Something stinks. He knows in November things are going to change bigtime. he is looking to undermine the conservative base, have us pay the way for his bro's and beaners.

"We are very fat and unhealthy in this country and we have ourselves (and our total apathy) to blame."

The millennium has arrived. I agree with Eb. Shall we make fatness a misdemeanor, smoking a felony? A fine for too many carbs in one day, a year in The Joint for too many grams of saturated fat in one meal? herm

"We are very fat and unhealthy in this country and we have ourselves (and our total apathy) to blame."

The millennium has arrived. I agree with Eb. Shall we make fatness a misdemeanor, smoking a felony? A fine for too many carbs in one day, a year in The Joint for too many grams of saturated fat in one meal? herm

Posted by herm at 2010-02-08 05:22 PM | Reply

"Medical Societies"

The enforcers are pretty toothless because Doc's are largely self policing (and we all know how well that works of late).

Don't look for politicians to go after putting responsibility on shitty dr's to get ousted from practise because the doc lobby is right up there with the trial lawyer lobby (except the docs spread the money around better). That structure isn't going anywhere!

And let me add that malpractice laws are the best friend the patient has. Without them, there would be no remedy for slipshod practice at all. But let's eliminate "malpractice insurance." Make the docs pay damages out of their own pockets. Second offense: Lifetime disbarment. Why not? herm

over civil suits often brought by, at times, unscrupulous lawyers? I think not. Unless you want to make medical costs even higher than now due to this exposure.

There is misunderstanding regarding "malpractice" and overall product liability and professional liability.

ALL products sold to hospitals have such high costs associated with them due to their exposure for product liability....needles, beds, gauze pads, etc.... all of this adds to our costs and more than the malpractice exposure of the physicians.

Explain to me, Eb - if you can - why lawyers are unscrupulous and doctors are not. Many lawyers I know still want to see justice done, with fees secondary. In my town of a quarter million, I know of just one (1) physician, a female, who I think wants to heal the suffering and not just collect the big fees. herm

Explain to me, Eb - if you can - why lawyers are unscrupulous and doctors are not. Many lawyers I know still want to see justice done, with fees secondary. In my town of a quarter million, I know of just one (1) physician, a female, who I think wants to heal the suffering and not just collect the big fees. herm

okay...where to start. Here goes...

I didn't say MDs aren't unscrupulous. but you suggested that we kick MDs out of practice if they screw up twice. do you even understand WTF you are talking about? I know 2 cardiologists who have had malpractice suits. One was a patient who was so fucking fat they would die regardless of the bypass surgery. they did the surgery and the patient died anyway in 6 months...guess what...here comes the suit. they did nothing wrong but litigation was forced because of this. Also, no insurance? after borrowing $300K to get their specialty degree you expect them to just "wing it" hoping that nothing ever happens to them? are you nuts? wait...don't answer that.

I'm sure you know plenty of MDs with your high opinion of them Herm. LOL

#50 | Posted by rightnut at 2010-02-08 05:25 PM
***"Now, who here does'nt realize that the dunce and thief is'nt up to something? Any Republican that goes to this cluster fuck is going to be tarnished by the party. obama has something evil up his sleeve, you can't trust him, everything he does is to blow up his own ego, and destroy the competition.
Don't turn your back on this asshole. Something stinks. He knows in November things are going to change bigtime. he is looking to undermine the conservative base, have us pay the way for his bro's and beaners."

More: status quo, fear, hatred and vitriol from the right; I just love the Republican's plan for America's healthcare reform... (sarc)

Same shit, different day...

Okay, the cardio with the fat patient: Juries think doctors are gods, and will not rule against them except in extreme cases. No jury would convict a cardio of malpractice involving a 400-pound walking piece of blubber ... unless the cardio removed the heart when he was supposed to take out the gall bladder.

You stumble in attempting to explain the litigation "forced" on anyone, but try again. And if you really think that borrowing $300K for a "specialty degree" allows an M.D. to screw around with zero accountability to anyone ... well, just don't ever develop a problem that requires surgery. herm

E) laws favoring trial lawyers not patients and physicians. Not just TORT Reform.
FIX THIS FIRST AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE REST, SECOND.
#38 | Posted by GlennO

...which laws? Maybe you can name a few for us. That would be great.

Experienced Product Liability Lawyers

We are here to help. If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with zinc poisoning, neuropathy or another neurological condition and believe it is a side effect of denture adhesive cream, you need an attorney.

To discuss your case with an experienced product liability lawyer, contact us at 866-941-1947.

Republicans no they are better off doing nothing so they can keep calling the Dems the "Do nothing Democrats". If they pass something they know that it helps Obama's cause to stay in office.

no= know

"worry about the players in the field.
or is that too much to ask?
#37 | Posted by eberly"

Demand that your representatives on both sides of the aisle do what is right to advance our interests.

Is that too much to ask?

"worry about the players in the field.
or is that too much to ask?
#37 | Posted by eberly"

Demand that your representatives on both sides of the aisle do what is right to advance our interests.

Is that too much to ask?

What is the Republican counter-proposal, and why do they fear airing their great ideas in a public forum?

Why is BetelG so stupid?

To quote Admiral Ackbar: It's a TRAP!

Let's see....some potential battle-cries from the right;

DEATH PANELS!!!

DEATH PANELS!!

Keep your GOVERNMENT hands off my Medicare!!

Obama Invites Repubs to Summit on Health Care

Frankly, the "repubs" need to tell Obama to go fuck himself.

Any acknowledgement or response to a political publicity stunt like this only validates his little punk ass.

Fuck him---and fuck his agenda.

"Obama" is a big fucking mistake---and anything he says or does needs to be marginalized or ridiculed until the democratic process allows us to wipe him from our collective asses.

What a shame we've done this to ourselves.

The fact that a President has so big of a majority and still needs help from the minority party speaks volumes about Obama's lack of experience. If Hillary was President, Healthcare would have been passed by now. Unlike Obama, Hillary actually had solid legislative experience. She successfully worked with Senators from the other party. Obama's Senate career was rather unremarkable.

"choice of coverage per the individual"

Umm, HMO's don't offer this currently --- is this another one of those "by magic" proposals (meaning it will become a reality By the means of Magic).

#43 | Posted by Redneckville at 2010-02-08 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you were any more stupid you'd forget to breathe.

An HMO is one of the choices that most people have; HMOs do not offer options, they A-R-E an option.

Most employer-sponsored plans offer multiple levels, with the extra cost going to the employee.

You think the HMO is too restrictive? Fine. Pay extra and take the PPO option.

Your dentist is not on the HMO panel? OK, pick a more expensive plan, change dentists, or pay the difference out of pocket.

Some employers do offer a single, take-it-or-leave-it plan, but very few, because offering choices does not cost the employer any extra.

If you were any more stupid you'd forget to breathe.

Reel'em right in with kindness and God's love, VERN! LOL

The old "Christian" response, eh? If you see someone bleeding in the gutter, first ask for a green card. Without one, let 'em bleed. herm

#46 | Posted by herm at 2010-02-08 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

My goodness!

Herm wants American laws and institutions to operate according to biblical Scripture?

I don't think that employers should be paying for health insurance. If you got that money paid to you, and shopped for your own policy, the choices you make would be much more likely to hold down costs.

For example, instead of $10 co-pay plan that cost 500 a week, you might take a high-deductible plan and shop for the most affordable doctor... just as an example.

One of the BIGGEST problems with the system is that it divorces the the cost from the people who are ultimately paying them... by hiding them in insurance companies and employer's expenses.

Oh, and for anyone who thinks that lawyers are not the problem, drive by Edwards 28K sq foot house sometime. All paid for by lawsuit against ob-gyns if I remember correctly.

1Libertarian-
re: "All paid for by lawsuit against ob-gyns if I remember correctly."

As I remember, Edwards made his biggest score in a lawsuit where a little girl was disemboweled by a defective pool drain.

1LIB

IMO, if health benefits were to go away, the 'top floor' wouldn't hand out raises large enough to keep up with 15% annual increases in premiums. Upper management only look out for themselves. They've raided pension plans, ended them, or suspended 401K contributions to ensure their own retirements get richer.

American-
I agree with this tiny slice of what 1Libertarian said: One of the BIGGEST problems with the system is that it divorces the the cost from the people who are ultimately paying them.

Everything else is bunk, of course.

#76 | Posted by BetelG

Ya.

If anyone thinks the 'top floor' would ever hand out 15% raises a year just to meet inflationary rises in health care premiums if they quit paying premiums, guess again. Even if they did, non health care related real wages wouldn't keep up with inflation. Some policies go up more than 15% a year.

Everyone should hold their breath until the right comes up with something original and doable for healthcare.

We have the Obama H/C pkg (IMO is nothing more than a reheated Hillary Co.bill) because the Retards refused to tackle health care PEROID!

They've spent our time and money on wars and nation building... But not gonna spend a dime to help Americans get healthcare costs under control.

There's a number of you out there that would like to point the finger at welfare abuse to pad your conscience... Wait till this hits home. your day is comming when you or a loved one is denied for a pre-exist. cond. You can get you a $0.99 cent
lawyer and file Chapt 13...Watch what I'm telling you come true...

Why have a summit if you can just ram through a rediculous spending health care bill, oh wait, we aren't as smart as we thought, are we?

What a maroon.

Watch the titles on these things
Health care SHOULD be health destruction.
Social security should have been Social insecurity
Medicair should have been medi-ration
Disability assistance should have been unability
Veterans health care should have been delay-till-they-kick-the-
bucket

Gotta watch these programs

regards to this silly post:
Tort reform would legitimatize medics leaving scalpels inside patients and sawing off the right leg when the left one is gangrenous....

Tort as we have it now allows incompetent docs to keep working and the penalty is distributed to good docs.
Tort reform is needed. make a mistake, take your license, don't increase good docs insurance.
then the ignorant alcoholic doc will drive taxis and the good docs can stay in business
Tort is the problem with america and why you soon will have no physicians and you will see assistant nursed in walk in clinics pretty soon.

Lawyers are the problem with America, not the solution.
What other profession holds paid conferences meetings to learn how close they can lie and get away with it.

shamefull.

Rethugs would rather destroy the country than give an inch. Their strategy is to render Obama ineffective and they're doing a pretty darn good job.

Obama is pissing in the wind. The answer my friend is NOT pissing (or blowing) in the Wind.

Their strategy is to render Obama ineffective and they're doing a pretty darn good job.

#82 | Posted by nutcase

House, Senate, President, Supreme Court, Media. Dumbacrats have all and it's the GOP's fault? Now, after all the shoving, pushing and jamming, they want Repubs to come to the table? Think they will??? On crack?????

Their strategy is to render Obama ineffective and they're doing a pretty darn good job.

That whine-line is really wearing thin. "The republicans are to blame when they have the White House. The republicans are to blame when they have congress. The republicans are to blame when they don't have the White House. The republicans are to blame when they don't have congress"

At what point will the democrats finally take responsibility? Fuck!

At what point will the democrats finally take responsibility? Fuck!

Posted by goatman at 2010-02-09 11:02 AM | Reply

Never.

The question in #84 was an honest one. Can one of you lefties tell me when the democrats will start taking responsibility for the government? Clearly y'all don't think you have any even though you have the Senate, House, and Executive office.

Will you guys ever take charge, or what? Exactly what does it take for the Democrats to be in control? Obviously they can't do it having full majority or we wouldn't keep hearing "Republican's fault"

Run, Republicans, run. This is nothing but a ruse to get you involved, and once you are, blamed.

This is a Sucker Punch the Republicans should duck!

Run, Republicans, run. This is nothing but a ruse to get you involved, and once you are, blamed.

They are already involved.

Sitting on yer ass and doing nothing is doing something.

If they don't show up more people will become aware of the unmitigated and unprecedented obstructionism that defines the GOP these days.

Be Well.

/K, 'nuff blog-fun fer a bit
//Exiting the one and only Retort as ya do
stage left.

Sitting on yer ass and doing nothing is doing something.

And deth further exemplifies the powerlessness of the democrats. Even though they control the Senate, the House, and the White House, and their opposition "sits on their ass doing nothing", they STILL can't lead. But they sure can blame those people sitting on their ass doing nothing! LOL

Incredible, huh?

BUT he is unwilling to agree to start over according to his interview with katie on sunday.
so is there anyone who really believes this liar?

Sitting on yer ass and doing nothing is doing something.

If they don't show up more people will become aware of the unmitigated and unprecedented obstructionism that defines the GOP these days.

Be Well.

/K, 'nuff blog-fun fer a bit
//Exiting the one and only Retort as ya do
stage left.

#89 | Posted by dethspud at 2010-02-09

if you would get off YOUR ass and stop playing with yourself and read something besides leftwing crap maybe you would have read george will's column of last week where he outlines IN DETAIL..the gop plan put forth by paul ryan on economic survival
and oh yes.
OBAMA said he has recieved plans from gop and has read them according to his LECTURE last week..are you saying that BARRY LIED ABOUT THAT?????

Have you ever noticed how Obama thinks nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to pay for it?

There's nothing wrong with the people who voted for Obama that becoming taxpayers won't cure.

It's a funny thing about socialists; give one an inch and
Obama is a lying pile of shit.

Why would we want this admin or this idiot or any part of our government to run Health care.. just look below...

Cash for Clunkers
If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000.

However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.

So rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the Feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.

But wait, it gets even better. You also got ripped off by the dealer . for example, every Ford dealer was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies, including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc. for $12,500 the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started.

When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before... (Honda, Toyota and Kia played the same list price game as Ford and Chevy did)..

So let's do the final tally here:

You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
Net so far: -$350
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was
selling for the month before
----------
Net -$3350

We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan, but let's just stop here.

So who actually made out on the deal? The Feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies.

The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor, stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.

Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege.

Think this was stupid?

Just wait until we get health care with "no additional costs over what most of us now pay for health insurance and the best medical care in the world. Think the new scheme might be designed by the same people who came up with Cash for Clunkers?

The Washington Post babbled again today about Obama inheriting a huge deficit from Bush, blah blah blah. Amazingly enough, a lot of people swallow this nonsense.

So once more, I'll try a short civics lesson to the idiots like Danni, DOC_SOREASS and spudhead

Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. They controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009, as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011. In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases. For FY 2009, though, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.
If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.

"
So once more, I'll try a short civics lesson to the idiots like Danni, DOC_SOREASS and spudhead"

"Budgets do not come from the White House."

"WASHINGTON President Bush on Monday submitted a $3.1-trillion budget for the next fiscal year that reflected his strategy for dealing with a costly war and a troubled economy: substantially boost military expenditures, rein in domestic spending -- including for Medicare -- and more than double the deficit."

"The Budget of the United States Government is the President's proposal to the U.S. Congress which recommends funding levels for the next fiscal year, beginning October 1. Congressional decisions are governed by rules and legislation "

WASHINGTON President Bush on Monday submitted a $3.1-trillion budget for the next fiscal year that reflected his strategy for dealing with a costly war and a troubled economy: substantially boost military expenditures, rein in domestic spending -- including for Medicare -- and more than double the deficit."

articles.latimes.com

nuf said.

so bush spending is justification for the light skinned inexperienced negro to triple down, danni you are indeed an ignorent twit.

once more you might as well state the basis for all your posts.
Bush = BAD
Obama the light skinned inexperienced negro = Good.

danni what color is the sky in your world?

In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is: I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th.

I do agree that it would be a mistake fro Republicans to put their ideas on the table, in public, in a format with Obama. They would get schooled, just as they were last month at the little summit they foolishly invited Obama to attend.

#22 | Posted by BetelG

No, Obama took a great deal of criticism over that mistake!

Patronizing the one you need support from? How stupid can you be?

Anyway, he's learned his lesson and if he does it again, he will be lost even more than he is now.

If Obama hasn't picked up on the fact that most Americans are supporting a more Conservative health care reform, then he is cooked!

The fact that you don't see that means that you will be very surprised come this November.

Just like Payton Manning was standing there all indignant. I was supposed to be the winner!

-No, Obama took a great deal of criticism over that mistake!

Slow Eddy is a laugh a minute.

Anyone who doesn't have a Barbara Bush tat on their backside saw what the rest of us saw.... what even FOX news saw when they cut the feed to stop the bleeding, Pres Obama kicking ass and taking names like a Pro Bowler in a Pop Warner game.

Depending on the structure of the discussion, this could be an extremely good mechanism for dealing with the misconceptions about what is in and not in the bill; what is a good idea and what is bad.

Much is said about Americans not wanting the present bill as though each and every American has voiced their opinion on the matter. In fact, it has been an extremely small minority of Americans that have been vocal in making their opinion known.

Anyone who doesn't have a Barbara Bush tat on their backside saw what the rest of us saw.... what even FOX news saw when they cut the feed to stop the bleeding, Pres Obama kicking ass and taking names like a Pro Bowler in a Pop Warner game.

#101 | Posted by Corky

This is bullshit!

He is not showing leadership when he gets up there and begins to lecture to the people. It's arrogant! It's patronizing!!

He is basically telling them "It's my way or the highway".

Fuck you, Mr. President! We make the laws and you sign it. OK?

Take a civics lesson, dumbshit!

How long is he going to behave stupidly?

I hope he keeps it up! Come November you and he will be very surprised !

And you call me slow. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Anyone who doesn't have a Barbara Bush tat

#101 | Posted by Corky

This is what makes you a laughing stock. You pretend that I support the Bush's just because I don't support Obama.

I don't support Obama because he's a Socialist!!!

He was basically taking apart their merely slightly true talking points and making them look the fools they are to anyone watching..... anyone with at least a quarter ounce of brains, that is.

kicking ass and taking names like a Pro Bowler in a Pop Warner game.

what kind of an analogy is that? a bowler kicking ass in football (even with little kids)?

Corky, why do I think you are an expert on a 'quarter ounce'?

what kind of an analogy is that? a bowler kicking ass in football (even with little kids)?

And here I thought the right could not get any more dense.

Here, let me give you a hint....

A Pro Bowler.... as in football, Bev.... as in Pop Warner...

You are just trying to make me feel bad for kicking your ass all the time, right?

LOL

-Corky, why do I think you are an expert on a 'quarter ounce'?

I don't want to confuse you, but you are the one who thought what you did when you read it, not me.

He was basically taking apart their merely slightly true talking points and making them look the fools they are to anyone watching

I particularly like how the POTUS tore apart the Republican idea of a medical voucher; a voucher whose value would not keep up with the cost of medical care and would eventually become worthless.

The other big point that the POTUS scored had to do with allowing insurance to be sold across state lines. He indicated that the current bill provides that capability however, there would be some caveats; i.e. state insurance commissioners would be allowed to set standards.

I think that the Republicans are reluctant to meet with the POTUS because they know that many (most?) of their ideas are shallow and won't hold up to public scrutiny.

I think that the Republicans are reluctant to meet with the POTUS because they know that many (most?) of their ideas are shallow and won't hold up to public scrutiny.

I think you are correct. There is very little they have to contribute that would hold water. Now, if they supported a public option, drug price discounts, allowing folks 55+ buy into medicare etc...

that would force the dems to adopt those ideas.

But neither party is interested in those types of solutions.

If I were them, I'd instead issue a statement saying that the GOP has concluded there is no good faith attempt on the behalf of the administration or the Democrats toward bi-partisanship in the summit citing their refusal to reset the debate and include the GOP from the beginning.

More proof - RepubliCons are professional hypocrite liars, period.

Look folks, lets be clear:
Record Profits for Big Oil, Big Pharms, Big Insurance for 8 years under RepubliCrooks is exactly NOT a Good thing for Americans

Health Insurers force a "wedge-in-the-middle" man business model intended with goals to increase (your) costs and cut your quality and reduce services, pay out less (to doctors) who actually offer the service, and enforce death panels who refuse care coverage (for profit)
- all of which is exactly the opposite of good for Americans!

RepubliCons are defending the Corps and their Profits!
RepubliCons are defending their Party first, America Last!
RepubliCons are the BAD Guys who want to exploit you....

#115 | Posted by gunner

I think Gunner's gone a little nuts since his Conservative boss fired him.

Bravo Sweddie - excellent attempt at Lush LimpBong

Attack the messenger with frivalous, baseless oxyContin induced "fairy tales"

Are you also making a grovely low "pretend to be important despite not 1 day of actual political education or experience" Voice too..!??

Record Profits for Big Oil, Big Pharms, Big Insurance

It is no coincidence that Big Pharm is based in NJ and NJ has two Democrat Senators from Northern NJ. Merck, Pfizer, Johnson N Johnson, Bristol Meyers, Roche all have a presence in Northern Nj.

In Ct, Big Insurance is king and so are Lieberman and Dodd who love the insurance companies

Have you ever noticed how Obama thinks nothing is impossible as long as somebody else has to pay for it?

#93 | Posted by reinsurelaw at 2010-02-09 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Ever understood the concept of the Federal Government???

They make NOTHING but LAWS!

Everything they get, they take from someone else...

Just like the last President... and the one before...and the one before....

get it?

I doubt it.

t-bagger for sure..

PigPen, you ignoramous

The RepubliCon-Jobs voted in rubber stamp lock step to loot $trillions in gifts, tax breaks, de-regulation and closed door locked (w Cheney n Big Oil) "Energy Policy" and closed door locked (w Cheney n Big Pharms, Big Insurance) "Health Policy"...!??

#101 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-09 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Only in the eyes of a blind fool.

'I don't support Obama because he's a Socialist!!!"

I can see you really think for yourself. No talking points for you. Nope. And, I'm sure you have lots of good reasons to make the claim that he is a socialist. Perhaps you would be so kind as to list them.
Perhaps you would be so kind to tell us what your definition of a Socialist is, as opposed to a Communist.

Danni

You're asking way too much of Eddie.

Eddie, Let me make it easy for you: The dead giveaway is he's got a (D) behind his name. Beyond that you don't need to think.

I think that the Republicans are reluctant to meet with the POTUS because they know that many (most?) of their ideas are shallow and won't hold up to public scrutiny.

#112 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2010-02-09 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Kinda like the ideas from the administration that were just rejected by the American voters?

They don't know who is going to be there, what the structure will be,

Probly learned that one from Cheney.

Foschaffer-
I agree. Republican ideas are wonderful (what are they, again?), would bend the curve on health care inflation, and give everyone a pony, but they'd be foolish to present those wonderful ideas in front of a camera and microphone.

Danni-
Thanks for getting "Reinsure" to tell us what he really meant by busting his bullshit like a ripe pimple:

"so bush spending is justification for the light skinned inexperienced negro to triple down, danni you are indeed an ignorent twit."

Danni-
After you busted "Reinsure" with actual facts of Bush signing a $3 trillion budget, destroying his stupid argument, he was reduced to this:

so bush spending is justification for the light skinned inexperienced negro to triple down, danni you are indeed an ignorent twit.

once more you might as well state the basis for all your posts.
Bush = BAD
Obama the light skinned inexperienced negro = Good.

#98 | Posted by reinsurelaw at 2010-02-09 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

....which was the only basis of his argument all along.

Good job, Danni!

("signing" should be "submitting", as per the article Danni quoted)

"Obama" is a big fucking mistake---and anything he says or does needs to be marginalized or ridiculed until the democratic process allows us to wipe him from our collective asses.

#68 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2010-02-09 12:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

You need to shorten that to fit on your bumper-sticker....then you can apply it to your short-bus.

House, Senate, President, Supreme Court, Media. Dumbacrats have all and it's the GOP's fault? Now, after all the shoving, pushing and jamming, they want Repubs to come to the table? Think they will??? On crack?????

#83 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY at 2010-02-09 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Supreme Court? You don't get out much do you?

Media? I keep hearing how FOX News is number one yet you clowns keep screaming 'liberal media'. Which is it?

Pushing, Shoving & Jamming.....where were you for the years 94-06? Rightards used reconciliation three times to pass Bush's tax cuts in time of war.

Rightards used reconciliation three times to pass Bush's tax cuts in time of war.

But, but, but it was the Democrats fault for not stopping them.

- Right wing apologists.

gop had better show up and show up with all guns blazing.
IF the cameras are on like barry said....a promise he has a record of NOT KEEPING...then this could be the cinch that puts next november into the historical category.

You need to shorten that to fit on your bumper-sticker....then you can apply it to your short-bus.

#131 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2010-02-10 03:15

someone already has done that around here.
the other day I saw my 2nd or 3rd vehicle with that sticker

'obama sucks'

OH YEAH

here is a little history of obamas' promises to work with the gop.
notice the people holding up GOP PLANS for health care at the same time the asshole was bitching about them not having a plan..

726 - Reconciliation was put in place FOR BUDGET ITEMS ONLY!.....using it to pass non-budget legislation is what the problem is - and what has NEVER been done.

BetelG - not that you would actually read it...you would rather spout platitudes feed to you by the Daily KOS or the Administration - both PROVEN liars:

FO FO FO FO

whats WRONG with you

throwing out all that commonsense approach to this issue.........

anyone who doesnt believe your part about across state lines is OVERPAYING for car insurance I can tell you....the reason my rates are so low is because an independent looks all over the coutry for the best deal for me....

but of course when you talk about lawyers..then you are really asking for trouble

for instance..if whatever carolina john edwards is from had tort reform...we may have never heard his name because he might not have made MILLIONS from insurance companies.

Just to add;

"While the excesses of the litigation industry alone cannot explain America's mounting medical costs, litigation is a large, and growing, contributor to our health-care bill. As the graph below shows, medical malpractice liabilitythe "tort tax" on doctors and hospitals, whose costs constitute the majority of health expenseshas grown much faster than health-care inflation.[4] Indeed, medical-malpractice liability alone constitutes over 10 percent of the entire U.S. tort tax, which by 2003 represented over $3,300 for a family of four.[5]"

"Obama Invites Repubs to Summit on Health Care"

That's like inviting the Klan to sit in on an NAACP conference.

MTW,

More like inviting the Dream Team to the Special Olympics.

Shaffer:

If the Republican Party is your idea of a Dream Team, I don't want to be around when you're having nightmares.

Beats supporting the mental midgets that make up the corrupt DEMS. I am reading the book by the guy that covered for Edwards...he states point blank that the Dems passed out sweetheart contracts to various supporters and allowed campaign workers to buy land where they were going to put in roads or other public works.

The only thing they do is to tax and spend...never looking at smaller government or considering the constitution - America is always bad, never a force for good. Lets see what we can give people to stay in power...not what is right for America.

If you work and save - shame on you..we will take and give it to someone who sat on thier ass and did nothing. At some point in time you and the rest of the gang will realise you run out of spending other peoples money after a while.

The Obama and Congress open discussion on health care is needed to break the logjam on this.