let them all showew together......

it is just de ja vu....all over again.

Writer recalls Truman's risky order to integrate military

Admiral Mullen is of course correct. This nation is well served by thousands of brave and honorable gay/lesbian warriors. Forcing them "to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens" is shameful. Hopefully President Obama will have the political courage to do what should have been done a long time ago. End don't ask / don't tell.

"The Great and Powerful Oz commands that homosexuals report front and center. You have lived in the shadows for too long and now must proudly show off your sexuality in military splendor. Why? Because we are not interested in your service, we are interested in your identity. By we, we mean the royal we. The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken."

"NOT A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT"

How is repealing DATD a social experiment?

There was a time when blacks did not serve with whites.
Why?
Because people were worried that a lot of white people would have a problem with it, and that would have a negative effect on morale and unit cohesion.

And it did.
And the unit got over it.

Why do blacks serve with whites now?
Because the unit got over it.
Any white soldier have a problem serving with a black soldier, that's the white soldier's problem.

Now, fast forward a few years....
There was a time when gays did not serve with straights.
Why?
Because people were worried that a lot of straight people would have a problem with it, and that would have a negative effect on morale and unit cohesion.

And it did.
And the unit got over it.

Why do gays serve with straights now?
Because the unit got over it.
Any straight soldier have a problem serving with a gay soldier, that's the straight soldier's problem.

This isn't about "sizing people up".
This is about you being squeamish.

And there's no place for squeamish in the military, right?

The Joint Chief's and Sec. Gates are proponents of repealing DADT.

Homosexuals have been welcome in the Israeli army for a long time now. No one's ever accused the Israeli army of being a bunch of pussies.

If you ask me, Condaleeza Rice as Secretary of State did more to mess with the reputation and morale of the Israeli army than all the serving homosexuals combined.

Kennedy was for NCLB, but never expected funding to be slashed by the GOP Congress.

Mike Mullen's nickname is "milk-toast Mullen".

I noticed today on NPR the first thing a Rebublican opponent to this mentioned was that "transvestites" and "transexuals" would now be in the Armed Forces.

When pressed he said that he did not mean to say that all gay people are "Transvestites" or "transexuals" but this is going to be the classic dumber than dumber Republican line, like that old turnip about people being able to marry animals.

We are in the midst of the dumbest members of Congress in history, and they should be told to go get a proper job, if they can find one outside of fast food, because I certainly wouldn't one of these bozos serving me at McDonalds.

The military = kill people and blow shit up. NOT A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT.

Strange then that the military was de-segregated before America was.

People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers. The idea that they would have difficulty serving with someone who is gay is ridiculous. This isn't the '50s anymore. Everybody knows that gays exist. Many straight soldiers already know gays they are serving with.

We're drumming hundreds if not thousands of good soldiers out of the military over something that has nothing to do with their fitness to serve. How can anyone justify letting a talented Arabic translator go because he or she happens to be gay and somebody finds this out?

The Joint Chief's and Sec. Gates are proponents of repealing DADT.

#6 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

HUH? -
You missed the look of astonishment on the Joint
Chief's faces during the State of the Union -
it would have been funny if it wasn't so shocking.

[you wanna share a sleeping bag with Neil & Bob?]

Well, having read since the SOTU I've seen many reports of this:

Adm. Mullen: Repealing 'Don't ask, don't tell' is the 'right thing to do'

""It is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do," Mullen said. "We have in place a policy which forces young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens. For me, personally, it comes down to integrity theirs as individuals and ours as institutions," Mullen added."

we really need to get over the gay and lesbian thing.

war is not healthy for children and other living things.

the least we can do for our cannon foder is let them have free blowjobs between fire fights.

You missed the look of astonishment on the Joint
Chief's faces during the State of the Union

Comments like this are just laughable. You don't think the Commander in Chief has meetings with the Joint Chiefs before the State of the Union speech? You think they don't work together on the administration's position on Iraq? Iran? Afghanistan?

#12 | POSTED BY RCADE
"People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers."

Very good point.
Of course, the deeper truth is that they have a low opinion of homosexuals, and can't imagine the soldiers being any different.

#17 | Posted by BobSF_94117

Yes, Obama likely spoke to the military brass;

Their faces betrayed whatever (to the contrary) the
president had said to them. They were, "WTF???".

They were clearly blind-sided by Obama.

#13 | POSTED BY COOKIEPUSS
"You missed the look of astonishment on the Joint
Chief's faces during the State of the Union -
it would have been funny if it wasn't so shocking.
[you wanna share a sleeping bag with Neil & Bob?]"

#17 | POSTED BY BOBSF_94117
"You don't think the Commander in Chief has meetings with the Joint Chiefs before the State of the Union speech?"

Cookiepuss, Bob has a very good point.
My point, however, is that I DID see the looks on their faces, and it wasn't remotely close to astonishment. I don't know what you were seeing.

But to reference Bob's comment, there's no way they didn't know about it. It's far-fetched to think the President would have it in the SOTU without already knowing how they felt.

[This from a vet friend]: As far as sharing a sleeping bag with Neil & Bob, I'd proudly share a sleeping bag, a fox hole, a canteen, an MRE, a weapon, you name it, with ANYONE serving next to me. Any soldier who disagrees can bug out and move to Leavenworth for all I care.

Soldiers serve with people they don't like and people they don't agree with all the time. But they DO agree on what matters most, and it's got nothing to do with sex.

[you wanna share a sleeping bag with Neil & Bob?]

If it's cold enough that sharing a sleeping bag seems in order, why would you rather die than just get over your insecurities?

I remember watching a news report of a soldier in Afghanistan. It was November. He had last had a shower in JULY.

You think that guy would care who he had to shower with?

Mullen is obviously a gay militant. He should just resign, divorce is wife, and come out of the closet. I wonder how many enlisted men he raped over the course of his career.

we really need to get over the gay and lesbian thing.

#15 | Posted by pragmatous at 2010-02-02 09:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"We"? Perhaps you should write a letter to your Republican rep. in the house or Senate.

"We" are cool with it.

#23 | POSTED BY TIMBCI
"Mullen is obviously a gay militant."

Nice try, short bus.

It's cute, though, I'll give you that.

Now go back to your koolaid.

"Mullen is obviously a gay militant."

Nice try, short bus.

It's cute, though, I'll give you that.

Now go back to your koolaid.

#25 | Posted by TheTom

Sorry son but I do not drink koolaid. I avoid drinks with sugar in them. Only fools drink empty calories on a regular basis. I bet you supersize your drink when you stuff your face at Wendy's.

re: "Sorry son but I do not drink koolaid."

Right. That was Jim Jones, and not the "prophet Koresh".

Timbicile 'infiltrates' all the local gay clubs for his klux-wanabe neo-nazi Sons of the Confederacists.

He has already scheduled his sex change operation so he can go full-tranny. Talk about dedication!!!

Chickenfucker is paying for Timbicile's operation!!

"It is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do," said Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "

Strewth.

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Don't Work.

It never will.

It was a poor compromise who's time is done.

tImbecile is obviously an Imbecile.

~tImbecile

FTFY.

Be Well.

Soldiers serve with people they don't like and people they don't agree with all the time. But they DO agree on what matters most, and it's got nothing to do with sex.

yep, there are no atheists and no gays in the foxhole... no xtians and no muslims for that matter.

[you wanna share a sleeping bag with Neil & Bob?]"

Dumbest post of the year.

So by that comment I take you would rather share a sleeping bag with a heterosexual man? You want to get him to switch teams?

Sorry son but I do not drink koolaid. I avoid drinks with sugar in them. Only fools drink empty calories on a regular basis. I bet you supersize your drink when you stuff your face at Wendy's.

Boy, you sure showed him!

Calm down that rapier wit of yours!

The question isn't whether or not it's 'the rigth thing to do'.

Of course it's the right thing to do.

The question is how do we build and maintain the best military possible?

The answer to that question may very well NOT coincide with 'the right thing to do'.

You missed the look of astonishment on the Joint
Chief's faces during the State of the Union.

The reason I missed it is because it never happened. Admiral Mullen is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They knew that line was coming.

People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers.
Posted by rcade

Yeah, I'd like to see members of the Military vote on this issue.

"Yeah, I'd like to see members of the Military vote on this issue."

But then you also think other rights for gay people should be decided by majority vote and don't even understand why that is not compatible with the Constitution.

I wonder how the military would have voted about granting black personnel equality with whites??

Yeah, I'd like to see members of the Military vote on this issue.

Do you think the military should get to vote on whether to fight a war?

The people I know in their late teens and early 20s are not freaked out at all by the existence of gays. They know them, go to school with them and are friends with them. It's a non-issue.

The people I know in their late teens and early 20s are not freaked out at all by the existence of gays. They know them, go to school with them and are friends with them. It's a non-issue.

Posted by rcade

This what the 'phobes don't understand. To an awful lot of that age group, sex is just sex. It is not necessarily who they are as a person.

No one's ever accused the Israeli army of being a bunch of pussies.

#7 | Posted by valis at 2010-02-02 08:27 PM | Reply

Surprisingly, it happens here every time the Israelis engage their enemies.

Do you think the military should get to vote on whether to fight a war?
Posted by rcade

That's part of the commitment when signing up. Just like Don't ask, Don't tell was. The problem with you lefties is you have no problem changing the contractual aggreement so long as it suits your agenda.

There's a flipside to all of this.

The problem with you lefties is you have no problem changing the contractual aggreement so long as it suits your agenda.

The military is led by a civilian government. The rules under which the military operates are changed all the time by that government. Here, Obama and the leader of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have called for a change and begun a one-year study of the ramifications of the change. They couldn't be more cautious if they tried.

I have little doubt that Congress will change the rule at the end of this process. It's a stupid, counterproductive and unnecessary rule.

There's a flipside to all of this.

Rape is hardly an issue solely involving gay soldiers.

There's a flipside to all of this.

hamptonroads.com

#43 | Posted by americanPLY at 2010-02-03 09:17 AM | Reply

That's a fucked up story.
Things that jumped out...A paralegal paratrooper getting ready to invade afghanistan just seems ridiculous on it's face. I remeber quite a few guys that really resented a bunch of pogues lining up well after the initial combat jump in Panama so that they too could get the mustard stain. Pogues are a vital piece of the machine, but it still strikes me as funny.
Claiming the "victim" was "Outranked" may appeal to any non-vet, but I can't imagine a veteran accepting something like that.
The "let me rub your legs" story doesn't quite add up. A dude is partying like a rockstar and then mysteriously has pain in his legs (that he can feel even though he was too drunk to resist being raped...) and lets some dude rub him down?

I doubt he is lying about the sex, but I also doubt it went down (no pun intended) as described. He was afterall a big guy (as the article goes out of it's way to mention).

As for DADT, I say integrate in the non-combat arms MOS's first. Then slowly move it in to the combat MOS's.

Strange then that the military was de-segregated before America was.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-02-02 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

And how has that worked out? Prior to de-segregation the US was undefeated in wars - after de-segregation we lost Korea and Vietnam - hard to pin that on de-segregation but equally as hard is to say that de-segregation increased the ability of the military to do its job. Also, did de-segregating the military eliminate racial tensions or problems on the civilian side? According to libtards racism is still alive and well in the hearts and minds of Obama detractors so my guess is not definitively.

So without evidence to prove de-segregation improved the quality of the military or improved or improves race relations today - the results of the social experiment in the military are inconclusive. Would be interesting to see the rates of court martials, unit readiness and performance reports before and after de-segregation.

Did de-segregation need to happen? Yes. It was and still is the "right" thing to do. Comparing the integration of blacks to the integration of gays are apples and oranges though. Of course, the gays are constantly trying to compare their "plight" to that of blacks.

As for DADT, I say integrate in the non-combat arms MOS's first. Then slowly move it in to the combat MOS's.

#46 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Gotta say thats a very sensible idea...

I mean if gay men and women are going to be allowed to shower with people they are sexually attracted to...

My gay friends are amused and astonished that so many straight men believe they're irresistible. Mostly they (gay friends) are thinking "Eeeeeeeeewwww... not if he were the last man on the planet."

People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers.

#12 | Posted by rcade at 2010-02-02 08:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

So you feel the same about the heterosexuals as you do the homosexuals right RCADE? A heterosexual male can just as easily shower with a heterosexual female and not be affected in any way sexually just like a homosexual male can shower with a heterosexual male and not be affected in any way sexually? Or do you only think gays have this kind of will power.

The question still stands: Why should men and women shower separately in the military if our soldiers are so above "sizing up" their squad mates?

For that matter - why do women get to have longer hair? WHERE IS THE EQUALITY?

My gay friends are amused and astonished that so many straight men believe they're irresistible. Mostly they (gay friends) are thinking "Eeeeeeeeewwww... not if he were the last man on the planet."

#49 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Total BS - guys look at tits - ugly tits, small tits, big tits, black tits, brown tits. I am sure it is the same with gay men - big dicks, little dicks - you get the picture.

I couldn't care less if gays and lesbos want to be open about it in the military. The military is a secular institution, and shouldn't have such rules. I look forward to our country moving beyond sexual identity as some sort of issue to be concerned about so that gays can stfu about it.

Mostly they (gay friends) are thinking "Eeeeeeeeewwww... not if he were the last man on the planet."

#49 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 09:41 AM | Reply

I'd by that line from a lesbo, but we constantly hear from the ghey defenders how gays are just like everyone else, accept they are attracted to the same sex.
You can't have it both ways.

We also here that the reason gay men have so many sexual encounters and do so in public restrooms, parks, truck-stops, etc is not because they're deviant gays, but because they're still "guys" looking to score, just like hetero guys...

The whole notion that gay dudes aren't checking out other dudes, unless they look like the elephant man, is ridiculous.

Now that the military is desegregated, why don't blacks join the infantry, and why do they all seem to flock to pogue jobs or Artillery?

Artty is the blackest god damn MOS this side of S&T...

I look forward to our country moving beyond sexual identity as some sort of issue to be concerned about so that gays can stfu about it.

#52 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-03 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

So we should eliminate mens and womens restrooms? Showers? Locker rooms in HS? The Romans moved beyond sexual identity - where are they now?

I look forward to our country moving back to sexual identity as an issue. Men and women are different - only liberal idiots think otherwise.

My gay friends are amused and astonished that so many straight men believe they're irresistible. Mostly they (gay friends) are thinking "Eeeeeeeeewwww... not if he were the last man on the planet."

#49 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 09:41 AM

So we should eliminate mens and womens restrooms?

#55 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 09:52 AM | Reply |

You can often find articles about people wanting to do just that (or add a 3rd bathroom for those too confused to know what they are...think Spud, or rein).

So we should eliminate mens and womens restrooms? Showers? Locker rooms in HS? The Romans moved beyond sexual identity - where are they now?

I look forward to our country moving back to sexual identity as an issue. Men and women are different - only liberal idiots think otherwise.

#55 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 09:52 AM

Now that the military is desegregated, why don't blacks join the infantry, and why do they all seem to flock to pogue jobs or Artillery?

Artty is the blackest god damn MOS this side of S&T...

#54 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Because they know from the movies - the black man always gets hit first!

Total BS - guys look at tits - ugly tits, small tits, big tits, black tits, brown tits. I am sure it is the same with gay men - big dicks, little dicks - you get the picture.

#51 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Gotta call ya on this - if you like looking at a nasty pair of titties more power to you but I don't get my jollys on just any type of titty.

Gotta call ya on this - if you like looking at a nasty pair of titties more power to you but I don't get my jollys on just any type of titty.

#60 | Posted by BigRex at 2010-02-03 10:00 AM | Flag: Dismayed that male breast reduction surgery is on the rise

#61 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-03 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag: Likes his men with perky tits

Gotta call ya on this - if you like looking at a nasty pair of titties more power to you but I don't get my jollys on just any type of titty.

#60 | Posted by BigRex at 2010-02-03 10:00 AM | Reply

But you're still checking them out in the first place. You may not get your jollies after you see them, but you're definiely checking "just in case" they were nice.
I believe that may be the bigger point. Dudes are/will be checking. Guys are visual, women in general are not.

And how has that worked out? Prior to de-segregation the US was undefeated in wars - after de-segregation we lost Korea and Vietnam - hard to pin that on de-segregation but equally as hard is to say that de-segregation increased the ability of the military to do its job.

Holy fuck. This may be the dumbest comment in the history of the internet.

Gays didn't bring down the Roman empire you nut case. -

Moral decay was certainly a factor - no boundaries on their sexuality and that sort of thing. Not the only reason, but one of the many.

Thanks for the insult also - problems with your own sexuality usually illicit such a retort. No wonder you want to eliminate sexual identity - you don't have one? Just a guess based on your insult.

#64 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2010-02-03 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

The point was supposed to be ludicrous you imbecile - it was to prove that social experiments in the military are pointless. How can you possibly gauge the effect of integration on the performance of the military? So making the comparison between integration of blacks and integration of gays is equally ludicrous - get it?

But you're still checking them out in the first place. You may not get your jollies after you see them, but you're definiely checking "just in case" they were nice.

I believe that may be the bigger point. Dudes are/will be checking. Guys are visual, women in general are not.

#63 | Posted by 101Chairborne

I guess we have different definitions of "checking out" then...

Thanks for the insult also - problems with your own sexuality usually illicit such a retort. No wonder you want to eliminate sexual identity - you don't have one? Just a guess based on your insult.

#65 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 10:14 AM

That our government is spending time on this shit when so many more important things are on the agenda is messed up.

Agreed.

However, should we not wait until a time when troops are out of harms way to experiment with procedures?

Give them their freedom, and let's move the fuck on.

#68 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-03 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

So, you agree men and women should shower together in the military then? Otherwise it seems you feel only homosexuals have the right to see people they are sexually attracted to naked.

Prior to de-segregation the US was undefeated in wars - after de-segregation we lost Korea and Vietnam - hard to pin that on de-segregation but equally as hard is to say that de-segregation increased the ability of the military to do its job.

~nonlucid

*facepalm*

Wow, just wow.

The point was supposed to be ludicrous you imbecile - it was to prove that social experiments in the military are pointless.

Desegregation is pointless?

As opposed to the top of yer head?

How can you possibly gauge the effect of integration on the performance of the military?

Same way you gauge performance normally.

So making the comparison between integration of blacks and integration of gays is equally ludicrous - get it?

No, the only ludicrous one here would be you.

Be Well.

#46 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE
"As for DADT, I say integrate in the non-combat arms MOS's first. Then slowly move it in to the combat MOS's."

#48 | POSTED BY BIGREX
"Gotta say thats a very sensible idea..."

I agree. Once DADT is repealed, the integration process itself is important.

#71 | Posted by dethspud at 2010-02-03 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Comments from the non-citizen again? Claims of non-lucidity by the jealous potatoe?

Your reading comprehension is only exceeded by your inability to refrain from commenting on topics to which you have no say, or right to comment on.

Please, go back to your basement, toke up and play Halo - or whatever the hell game you play to stoke your manhood.

We could always compare the performance of our military to yours - wait, that would be unfair. We could always compare our boy scouts to your military for performance purposes.

So, you agree men and women should shower together in the military then? Otherwise it seems you feel only homosexuals have the right to see people they are sexually attracted to naked.

#70 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 10:41 AM

I couldn't care less if some gay showered in the same locker room at the gym. If one of them tried to make it awkward by making a move, I'd sue him for harassment and retire early.

The point was supposed to be ludicrous you imbecile - it was to prove that social experiments in the military are pointless. How can you possibly gauge the effect of integration on the performance of the military? So making the comparison between integration of blacks and integration of gays is equally ludicrous - get it?

Oh, I got it...You could have just saved us all the bandwidth by typing nothing and obtained the exact same results.

I think people uncomfortable showering with gay people are afraid of their own inner temptations and not the gay person.

Elcid is very interested in and defensive about the issue of showering with gay men...

We could always compare the performance of our military to yours.

You mean like how Canada jumped into WWII from the get-go while the US dragged it's heals and flirted with Nazism?

Or were you talking about the fact that Canada has never lost a war?

^_^

Be Well.

ElCid: You are one bizarre puppy. You seem jealous that if DADT were abolished then only "homosexuals have the right to see people they are sexually attracted to naked" in the shower. Does that really concern you? That homosexuals will enjoy "rights" that you don't? Is that really how your mind works? Wow. Creepy. Y'know it always amazes me to find out what type of thoughts are running through the minds of people around me. Cuz if it really bothers you that gay/lesbians might 'enjoy these rights' (as you call them) and you don't get to, then you are one bizarre dude.

I think people uncomfortable showering with gay people are afraid of their own inner temptations and not the gay person.

#76 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 10:50 AM | Reply

Is that how you explain away your shame in not being able to convince the women in your office to shower with you?
They're simply afraid of their inner-temptations?

That homosexuals will enjoy "rights" that you don't?

#79 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-02-03 10:56 AM | Reply |

You guys sure seem to flail your wrists because you claim the opposite is true. Now wanting equality is a bad thing?

You do realize that gays currently shower in the same room as non-gays, right?

I couldn't care less if some gay showered in the same locker room at the gym. If one of them tried to make it awkward by making a move, I'd sue him for harassment and retire early.

#74 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Exactly! And chances are many have showered next to a homosexual in a locker room, at some point in their lives, and lived to tell the tale.

#80 | Posted by 101Chairborn

No, they don't like that I add the word "Golden" when I offer.

Or were you talking about the fact that Canada has never lost a war?

^_^

Be Well.

#78 | Posted by dethspud at 2010-02-03 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag:
Canada jumping into WWII - you guys were a little closer related to the UK than we were at the time - BFD. You really want to compare the support during that war between the US and Canada?

Never lost a war? When have you been the prime? I mean, in the last century. Please. Your comparisons are embarrassing spud. Look in the mirror and tell yourself your jealous of the US. Then go back and play PS3 or whatever game system you have.

#79 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-02-03 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Please answer the question: Is it ok for men and women to shower together in the military? Why is it any different than homosexual males showering with heterosexual males? Same for the females.

If you can't say yes to the question, you admit that homosexual men showering with heterosexual men is not as "innocent" as the gay agenda pushers would like everyone to believe.

The whole notion that gay dudes aren't checking out other dudes, unless they look like the elephant man, is ridiculous. -- #53 | Posted by 101Chairborne

You guys crack me up. You're essentially arguing that women should be afraid to walk out their front doors (cuz being "checked out" by someone you're not attracted to is so much more than you could bear).

Woman up, ya wussies!

I think people uncomfortable showering with gay people are afraid of their own inner temptations and not the gay person.

#76 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 10:50 AM

Please answer the question: Is it ok for men and women to shower together in the military? Why is it any different than homosexual males showering with heterosexual males? Same for the females.

If you can't say yes to the question, you admit that homosexual men showering with heterosexual men is not as "innocent" as the gay agenda pushers would like everyone to believe.

#85 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 11:14 AM

Um... regardless of whether DADT is revoked, gay guys will still shower next to straight guys, except maybe the straight guys won't know since the gay guys can't tell.
However, guys are NOT currently showering next to girls in the army, so the comparison is moot.

What is the point of this argument?
I personally couldn't give a flying fuq whether or not a guy is looking at my schlong while I shower, but if I was a super anti-gay person who was paranoid about my johnson's size, I'd probably rather know who was gay in the shower, so I'd still be against DADT.

Hey, as long as liberals don't get in the way of harassment laws applying to gays equally in the unlikely event that one can't control himself

I agree, and I remember in my HR classes learning that there is a growing concern in the workplace for same-sex sexual harassment and laws are adapting to cover it.

...overly PC tard...like yourself who think they're being modern and cool by hanging out with gays. -- #56 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Nah. I just go for the hottest arm candy.

Fair enough. haha!

You're essentially arguing that women should be afraid to walk out their front doors (cuz being "checked out" by someone you're not attracted to is so much more than you could bear).

#86 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Are they walking out their door naked? DADT works. Heterosexual guys are not greeting their squad mates with " My name is Tank and I am a heterosexual". But gays want "My name is Ashley and I am a homosexual". Why?

The military is for killing people and blowing up shit. It is not and should not be concerned with "fairness" to the detriment of its performance, unit morale, or its abilty to protect the US. So what if someone is precluded from being in the military? Can anyone fly an F18? Fly on the Space Shuttle? A bit of apples to oranges - but it illustrates the whole "life is not fair" argument.

The military should fail out fat people also. Women should be required to meet the minimum standards men have to physically. Anything which lowers performance of the unit.

Liberals want to dumb down our schools and handcuff our military. All for the sake of "fairness". Go back to reading Harry Potter if you want to live in a fantasy world.

Good point on the sexual harassment KANREI.

They are geniuses at cleaning artillary and firearms.

Heterosexual guys are not greeting their squad mates with " My name is Tank and I am a heterosexual". -- #92 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Huh. I always thought that's what belching and announcing "I'd hit that" meant.

You're essentially arguing that women should be afraid to walk out their front doors...

#86 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 11:16 AM | Reply

No, not even close to what's being said. What I'm saying is a woman showering with a man is going to be "checked out" without fail. Same with a dude showering with a gay dude.

I hear they are proficient in penetrating behind enemy lines.

The U.S. Military is starting a "Queer Eye for the Occupied Guy" program of reconstruction and urban development in Iraq.

And how has that worked out? Prior to de-segregation the US was undefeated in wars - after de-segregation we lost Korea and Vietnam

So we lost Korea and Vietnam because the military allowed blacks and whites to serve together? That comment says it all about the staggering idiocy of the argument against letting gays serve in the military. You have no argument.

The argument about group showers is equally ridiculous. Do you think the military spends a lot of time showering together? Do you spend a lot of time thinking about them showering?

Do you think the military spends a lot of time showering together?

#98 | Posted by rcade at 2010-02-03 11:36 AM | Reply

Do you think there are individual showers or group showers, dumbass?
Do you think people are on their own time schedule or do you think they follow a group schedule?

What a stupid fucking comment.

A clean army is a proficent army. -General Cornwallis

Do you think the military spends a lot of time showering together? Do you spend a lot of time thinking about them showering? -- #98 | Posted by rcade

What, you don't have that video?

What, you don't have that video?

The Dirty Dirty Army series or the America's Funniest Shower Movies series?

A clean army is a fabulousth army! -ElCid aka General Cornholis

Do you think there are individual showers or group showers, dumbass? -- #99 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Were you really in the military, Chair? Cuz when Sarge used to comment on these threads, he ridiculed the idea that they had enough time to lather up, much less check each other out.

Rcade thinks The Dirty Dozen was a fucking documentary.

Is this shower argument the only argument that exists against ending DADT?

Because its pretty weak. Knowing whether a guy showering next to you is gay or not doesn't change the fact that a guy is showering next to you who might be gay.

Where's the issue here?

So we're not going to let gays in the military because of what might go on in the shower? Put up some fucking plastic walls in the shower then. If that's the only argument against it, then it's a pretty weak position.

Knowing whether a guy showering next to you is gay or not doesn't change the fact that a guy is showering next to you who might be gay.

Yep. Newsflash to every man who ever showered in a group shower or changed clothes at a gym: There were gays there. Since you don't know this already, it's also true that these gays did not have sex with you or make any attempt to do so.

I know it's hard for you to deal with gay rejection, but that's no reason to exclude gays from serving the country.

Were you really in the military, Chair? Cuz when Sarge used to comment on these threads, he ridiculed the idea that they had enough time to lather up, much less check each other out.

#104 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 11:44 AM | Reply

I'm going to assume Sarge wasn't gay. Let him shower in a 10'x8' group shower with 15 fit women and tell me then if he has time to lather up.
On top of that, there are 20 to 30 guys waiting naked in line to get in the shower next.

Pet,
I doubt it's the only argument, but it's the one we're currently discussing.
As for your point, it's weaker than the one you're trying to rail against. The military currently discriminates against gays. If and when it doesn't, there will be more of them. Your argument is akin to "There's already drunk drivers out there. Why not legalize it"

Are opponents of the repeal really argung that heterosexual servicemen are so unable to control their emotional responses that they become unhealthily and unproductively preoccupied with the thoughts that may or may not be going on in the mind of homosexual men near by? As long as there is a strictly enforced code of conduct, I don't see what the problem is. There will be a transition but I can't believe that our servicemen's patriotism is so tenuously held that they will allow something like that to affect their service.

Your argument is akin to "There's already drunk drivers out there. Why not legalize it"

#109 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-03 11:50 AM

I didn't realize gay guys were killing innocent people in the showers. I stand corrected.

The U.S. Military is starting a "Queer Eye for the Occupied Guy" program of reconstruction and urban development in Iraq. -- #97 | Posted by kanrei

Ooooo... this is so unfunny...

FF!

#112....?

I didn't realize gay guys were killing innocent people in the showers. -- #111 | Posted by Petro81

That's one of many things about this thread that's hard to fathom -- the suggestion that STRAIGHT men are the ones who might be endangered if DADT is revoked.

I didn't realize gay guys were killing innocent people in the showers. I stand corrected.

#111 | Posted by Petro81 at 2010-02-03 11:54 AM | Reply

Yes, because that was the point. Fucking retard.

#110 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-03 11:53 AM

Shouldn't it be "ServicePEOPLE?"

Yes, because that was the point. Fucking retard.

#115 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-03 11:56 AM

Easy there tough guy. I was pointing out how asinine your comparison was, just like the comparison of women in the shower with men to gay guys in the shower with hetero men.

No need to get your panties in a bunch.

#113 | Posted by kanrei

Running on caffeine fumes. Was thinking that's one of those "I shouldn't encourage him" jokes.

That's one of many things about this thread that's hard to fathom -- the suggestion that STRAIGHT men are the ones who might be endangered if DADT is revoked.

#114 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 11:56 AM | Reply

Who said they were endangered?

If you're confident in your position you don't need to supply an argument for your opposition.

The limpwrists cry about equality. If you want it across the board then why are there seperate showers and living quarters for women? Why aren't men and women sharing a room and shower at the barracks?
It's not a trick question, yet nobody seems to want to address it.

If a woman refuses to shower with men, would she be thrown out of the military? If a hetero male refuses to shower with a gay man, will he be thrown out of the military?

Here I thought the argument was about fairness and equality. When it gets down to the nitty gritty it appears as though it's not about equality but simply recognition.

#115 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-03 11:56 AM

...No need to get your panties in a bunch. -- #118 | Posted by Petro81

Chair in panties... be still my heart!

Gotta go or there's no hope of regaining my concentration and getting some work done.

#121 | Posted by Phoenix

Also, you know I am SOOOOOOOOO gonna pay for this!

Why aren't men and women sharing a room and shower at the barracks?
It's not a trick question, yet nobody seems to want to address it.

#120 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-03 12:01 PM

I addressed it by stating that it is a false comparison that ignores the realities of the situation:

Um... regardless of whether DADT is revoked, gay guys will still shower next to straight guys, except maybe the straight guys won't know since the gay guys can't tell.
However, guys are NOT currently showering next to girls in the army, so the comparison is moot.

#88 | Posted by Petro81 at 2010-02-03 11:20 AM

#113
Not in this instance because we are talking about the responses of.males primarily.

as many of you may assume, I think the current policy is enough of a compromise

HOWEVER>...there is always a conundrum to this..
IS that the right word..

these men and women are volunteering to risk thier lives for our freedom and security and Im not sure that doesnt trump the other things

I addressed it by stating that it is a false comparison that ignores the realities of the situation:

#123 | Posted by Petro81 at 2010-02-03 12:05 PM | Reply

The question was "Why aren't they", not "Are they currently or have they ever". So it's a question, not a false comparison.
Regardless...
You "addressed" it by pointing out that special considerations were made due to the circumstances.
Considerations that aren't being made for others.
That doesn't sound like equlaity to me.

If you're confident in your position you don't need to supply an argument for your opposition.

Yeah, but then I'd have to find another way to procrastinate.

The limpwrists cry about equality. If you want it across the board then why are there seperate showers and living quarters for women?

You wouldn't believe women's locker rooms -- half the women won't undress in front of each other! Try to convince a guy, though, to pull the drapes when he's walking around the house naked.

But fine. Maybe the military should consider some men's discomfort with gay men. Do you really think this is a problem the best military in the world can't solve?

Here I thought the argument was about fairness and equality. When it gets down to the nitty gritty it appears as though it's not about equality but simply recognition. -- #120 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Maybe recognition counts for some people, but the fact is, heterosexual men do not have to hide their heterosexuality or risk losing their jobs.

Please answer the question: Is it ok for men and women to shower together in the military? Why is it any different than homosexual males showering with heterosexual males? Same for the females.

Uhh...it's different because you shower based on what sex you are, not what sex you want to have sex with. I hope this is not news to you...

I heard a lot of Cunning Anal Linguists were let go because of this dumb rule!

Again -

If showers are the only problem, then put up some cheap plastic walls in the shower. Problem solved.

If someone is too scared to bunk next to a potentially gay person, then give them the option of putting up some stupid wall next to their bed. Problem solved.

Any other fears about gays in the military, or is unwanted looking and touching during showers and sleep the only thing we are afraid of here?

Coed showers. Everybody showers together; Male, female, gay, straight; Problem solved. Now get back out there and KILL THE ENEMY!

TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART II - PERSONNEL
CHAPTER 37 - GENERAL SERVICE REQUIREMENTS

-HEAD-
Sec. 654. Policy concerning homosexuality in the armed forces

The 1993 law passed with veto-proof bi-partisan majorities in both Houses.

While they are at repealing this, they should look into the inequality of Section 652

Uhh...it's different because you shower based on what sex you are, not what sex you want to have sex with. I hope this is not news to you...

#128 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2010-02-03 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

You can make a case that Homosexuals are not the same sex their heterosexual counterparts are. That should open pandoras box!

So where do the transexuals fit in to your argument?

"That should open pandoras box!"

Pandora's Box is already open. Integrating Gays is the right thing to do. Just like integrating the races was.

Now let's be adults about it and make reasonable rules. Quit thinking you will ever be able to control the sexual behavior of humans. It is not your job. And the Bible is a terrible reference book for understanding sexual psychology so forget that shit!

There are already rules in the military concerning discipline in the ranks. I am sure they can be tweaked to cover behavior in the showers and in the rooms and barracks they share. What soldiers do on their own time though is not your concern as long as it does not harm others (your sexual insecurities don't count) or break laws or reflect poorly on the image of the US. Again there are already rules to cover this.

Zorg the Vogon makes a good point. The fact is sexual orientation is not an either or proposition. We need to grow up and deal with that. Maybe we will go completely coed someday. Determining gender you should use a graduated scale from 1 to 10. Some are 1s and some are 10s but folks might fall in at #5 which in our society makes them very confused sexually. I guess they would be "Bi-curious" as they could go either way. Does this make them bad or deviant? I don't see how. It was not their "fault". It is YOUR fault! And especially the fault of religious fanatics who claim that "God hates fags". This is not just mental condition only either as it is physical and there are cases where a person who was born and determined by the doctor to be one sex but later "discovered" they were actually the other sex!

Is this guy a rear admiral?

How about calling the new policy
"No Gay Left Behind". Double Double
entandra.

Why aren't men and women sharing a room and shower at the barracks?

Because, in this society, men and women are segregated by sex in restrooms and showers. If they weren't -- if, as in some societies, mixed-sex nudity was a common aspect of the culture -- it wouldn't be an issue.

But we don't have mixed bathing facilities or many nude beaches in the U.S. Seeing the opposite sex naked is a novelty.

But we don't have mixed bathing facilities or many nude beaches in the U.S. Seeing the opposite sex naked is a novelty.

#137 | Posted by BobSF_94117 at 2010-02-03 01:55 PM

Was on a beach once where women could go topless. A hot European babe did, and while normally a pair of tits would excite the hell out of me, her just walking around with them like it's no big deal just took whatever it is that makes them special away. A woman revealing her titties in a sexual context fucking rocks, but just walking around them like it's business as usual just ruins the whole experience. If that makes any sense.

There's a flipside to all of this.

What's missing from that story is that DADT itself discourages reporting of sexual assault.

If that makes any sense.

Welcome to the world of gay men in gyms.

People think it's like a kid in a candy store. It's not. It's more like wandering the aisles of your local Costco wondering where the hell they put the bran cereal this week.

If that makes any sense.

It does make sense.

A local radio station has interviewed more than one 'nude-beach' participant/proprietor. They have a VERY pious attitude regarding their nudity - it's not sexual in any way, shape or form. What's worse is that they have no sense of humor about it. For example, the show's host would ask questions like, "What do you do when a guy involuntarily sprouts wood over seeing all of these naked women - do you just scold him and 'knock it down'?"

The reply was always one of being insulted - we would never get aroused over gazing upon the naked body - or some shit like that.

Blah blah blah - give me a fucking break.

If I am sharing space with a hot, naked chick I am likely to stand erect. That's just how it is.

I have never been to a nude beach, but from what I have heard, eventually you just don't notice anymore. It is so everywhere that it becomes nothing quickly.

Maybe the military should consider some men's discomfort with gay men. Do you really think this is a problem the best military in the world can't solve?

#127 | Posted by Phoenix at 2010-02-03 12:17 PM | Reply

I'm not against DADT in the whole scheme of things. I enjoy pointing out the double standards, and the inherent problems that come with it.
I think there will be unintended consequences are there are with a lot of changes. That's why you introduce the program with the support jobs and then introduce it to the combat arms.

Because, in this society, men and women are segregated by sex in restrooms and showers.

#137 | Posted by BobSF_94117 at 2010-02-03 01:55 PM | Reply

There is a reason for that. I wonder what it is?

#144

Insurance
Lawsuits
Puritans

Why would insurance be high? Why would people sue? What do Puritans have to do with people of opposite sexes not showering together?

The point, which everyone gets, is that human nature is human nature. If a dude is attracted to a dude, how is that attraction any less desirable than when a dude is attracted to a woman?

If men and women are segregated because of the differences then why not gay men and straight men? It's as if the cheerleaders for DADT/Equality aren't looking for actual "equality", just equality on their terms.

If men and women are segregated because of the differences then why not gay men and straight men? It's as if the cheerleaders for DADT/Equality aren't looking for actual "equality", just equality on their terms.

Exactly.

If women were 'required' to shower with men, they would feel like 'prey'.

How is that feeling any different from a guy being 'required' to shower with a faggot?

Why would a heterosexual soldier stick up for gay militant soldier. Every oportunity he gets that gay militant will look to take away the heteosexuals rights. You can bet the ACLU will monitor every tiny situation and claim bigotry whenever a gay militant gets diciplined or his drill sergeant gives him a tough time. Will gay militants be given separate standards.

We REALLY need a "Stupid" flag because #148 is a textbook example of a post that qualifies.

I think we should examine a couple of JeffJ's comments and apply some logic.

How is that feeling any different from a guy being 'required' to shower with a faggot?

I think everyone pretty much agrees that JeffJ has, in fact, showered with "faggots" pretty often in life, whether in school or in the military or at the gym. JeffJ doesn't seem to allow for this possibility.

If I am sharing space with a hot, naked chick I am likely to stand erect. That's just how it is.

So, projecting JeffJ's reaction to the hundreds of gay men he has probably showered with over the years, there are two possible conclusions for the fact that he hasn't realized he's been showering with gay men.

1) Gay men in the presence of other naked men really don't react the way he would in a room full of women.

2) JeffJ is so utterly unappealing that he has never, ever elicted a physical reaction from a gay man.

Quit thinking you will ever be able to control the sexual behavior of humans.

Excellent - then why try with the military?

Why eleminate DADT for political purposes only? Gays are still going to be gay, and straights are still going to be straight. Calling attention to the gays even more than DADT does is asking for more issues. The gay agenda is trying to control sexual preferences more than the DADT crowd.

Remember the old addage - what I do in my own bedroom? A military barracks is not THEIR OWN BEDROOM. Keep DADT - it works.

If DADT is revoked, straights should not be forced to shower with known homosexuals - and vice versa if they are so inclined. Better to keep DADT - better for the gays, better for the straights.

In the fantasy world that lives in the minds of all, no one would have a problem with anyone else as long as they are doing no harm. In the real world - this is not the case. Why, when you know we are flawed human beings with our own selfish agendas, do liberals constantly try to push their unrealistic idealism on the rest of us?

You can make a case that Homosexuals are not the same sex their heterosexual counterparts are. That should open pandoras box!

Please, make a case for me how someone with a penis does not have a penis. This should be fascinating.

So where do the transexuals fit in to your argument?

They fit into the "Elcidce90 is moving the goalposts" portion of the argument.

#150 | Posted by BobSF_94117 at 2010-02-03 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Self control differs between individuals - gay and straight. Can a guy hide a stiffy in a shower full of men? Don't know. Maybe straight men only look from the nipples up in a group shower. Where are you looking Bob?

2) JeffJ is so utterly unappealing that he has never, ever elicted a physical reaction from a gay man.

I've been hit on by a gay-man at a bar - It was unpleasant, but he backed off (a bit) when my preference was evident.

Not a big deal really - no different than a hot chick being treated as window-dressing.

Having said that, I may have been a bit more hostile had I been required to shower with the guy.

Self control differs between individuals

Not with erections I don't think. They are an involuntary reflex.

What is funny is that all this fear straight men have of a gay man's eyes really sort of reinforces the fear women have from straight men's eyes. It just tells women that even men believe they have no control and will rape whatever they like to see.

How is that feeling any different from a guy being 'required' to shower with a faggot?

#147 | Posted by JeffJ

Some of these homophobes sound as secure as Woody Allen in "Annie Hall".

ANNIE
Well, didn't you take, uh ... uh, a
shower at the club?

ALVY
Me? No, no, no, 'cause I never shower
in a public place.

ANNIE
(Laughing)
Why not?

ALVY
'Cause I don't like to get naked in front
of another man, you know-it's, uh ...

ANNIE
Oh, I see, I see.

ALVY
You know, I don't like to show my body
to a man of my gender-

ANNIE
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I see. I guess-

ALVY
-'cause, uh, you never know what's
gonna happen.

"Please, make a case for me how someone with a penis does not have a penis. This should be fascinating." - CUM ON MY FACE

The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, uses "gender" to refer to "the socially constructed roles, behaviors, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women".[2] People whose gender identity feels incongruent with maleness or femaleness sometimes refer to themselves as "intergender."

While the idea of gender as a social construct is favored in many social sciences, especially gender studies, in the hard sciences, research links biological and behavioral differences in males and females as determining factors for gender (here meaning "the state of being male or female") in humans and other species; this is assisted by debate regarding the extent to which the various biological differences necessitate differences in gender identity, which has been defined as "an individual's self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex".[3]

Gender identity is the gender a person self-identifies as. The concept of being a woman is considered to have more challenges, due to society not only viewing women as a social category but also as a felt sense of self, a culturally conditioned or constructed subjective identity.[16] The term "woman" has chronically been used as a reference to and for the female body; this usage has been viewed as controversial by feminists, in the definement of "woman". There are qualitative analyses that explore and present the representations of gender; feminists challenge the dominant ideologies concerning gender roles and sex. Social identity refers to the common identification with a collectivity or social category which creates a common culture among participants concerned.[17] According to social identity theory,[18] an important component of the self-concept is derived from memberships in social groups and categories; this is demonstrated by group processes and how inter-group relationships impact significantly on individuals' self perception and behaviors. The groups to which people belong will therefore provide their members with the definition of who they are and how they should behave in the social sphere.[19]

Thar you go - was it "fascinating" enough for ya cumface?

Have you ever been hit on by a gay-guy, Null?

I have.

At the end of the day it wasn't a big deal, but I may have had difficuly if I was forced to shower with that guy.

Not with erections I don't think. They are an involuntary reflex.

#155 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

While technically correct I think that your own self control can determine whether your "urges" create the erection. A husband could be constantly attracted to his wife but could take a shower with her and not get an erection - not that he wouldn't be "sizing her up" at the time.

Gender is not the same thing as sex. Gender is a social construct...which I completely agree with. Sex is hardware. Try again.

It just tells women that even men believe they have no control and will rape whatever they like to see.

#156 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Women are not consistantly taking showers with men they are not in a relationship either. Strawman.

Billy Crystal once said: "What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way."

There is some truth in that if the man is attracted to the woman.

Sex cannot be changed...sorry. If a man becomes a woman, they still have XY chromosomes. That is a male by definition. You can change Gender, but not sex.

Women are not consistantly taking showers with men they are not in a relationship either. Strawman.

Never spoke about showers. Strawman or deflection. Maybe a lack of literacy...

He really is stuck on "showering with men." It is like he heard this concept and is mentally fixated on it. No matter what anyone says, Elc brings up showers.

#161 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2010-02-03 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Apart from the biologists on the DR, I would surmise that most straight men do not consider gay men "the same sex". With the term "sex" being used as a subsititute for gender in common language.

I will allow that "technically" to scientists men with a penis as their only sexual organ are classified as males of the species. But when you have gay men calling each other "girlfriend" you can see how my initial argument can have some traction in everyday thinking. Again, I said an argument COULD be made - I did not say DEFINATELY.

I would prefer the bathroom arrangements from Starship Troopers

#164 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What is funny is that all this fear straight men have of a gay man's eyes really sort of reinforces the fear women have from straight men's eyes. It just tells women that even men believe they have no control and will rape whatever they like to see."

So are you implying that heterosexual men walk around in fear of being ogled by gay men? Because I never brought that up - outside of being naked in the shower together. And yes, the shower episode, while only one reason, is a visual argument so that is why I used it. Brushing your teeth next to a homosexual would hardly invite ogling while seeing a good looking guy in the shower - or girl - probably would. Deny it if you must - but if you were to shower with a group of hot women, somehow I doubt you would be thinking of that last episode of CSI you watched last night.

I would prefer the bathroom arrangements from Starship Troopers

#167 | Posted by truthhurts

Been thinking about that movie this ENTIRE thread.

So are you implying that heterosexual men walk around in fear of being ogled by gay men?

Implying? No. STATING. Flat out saying it. I said "What is funny is that all this fear straight men have of a gay man's eyes really sort of reinforces the fear women have from straight men's eyes. It just tells women that even men believe they have no control and will rape whatever they like to see."

Did I say location of the stares? No, I didn't.

RIF.org will help you to NOT read words that are NOT there.

Exactly.

If women were 'required' to shower with men, they would feel like 'prey'.

How is that feeling any different from a guy being 'required' to shower with a faggot?

#147 | Posted by JeffJ

jeff no offense but you sound like a closeted homosexual.

but if you were to shower with a group of hot women, somehow I doubt you would be thinking of that last episode of CSI you watched last night.

My thoughts would also cause them no harm and, unless they can read minds, they would NEVER KNOW what I was thinking. Guess what, same true if you were next to a group of guys. They won't know what I am thinking nor me what they are. YOU, on the other hand, are WAY TOO CONCERNED about this and should seek help ASAP.

My thoughts would also cause them no harm

unless of course they trip over your tongue

Elc seems to think the military is some Village People video where everyone is showering all the time.

Self control differs between individuals - gay and straight. Can a guy hide a stiffy in a shower full of men? Don't know. Maybe straight men only look from the nipples up in a group shower. Where are you looking Bob?

Of course you know. How often have you seen a guy pop wood over another guy in the shower? In your whole life?

I think what people are unwilling to talk about is that young men do get stiffies in the shower. I suspect there's plenty of morning wood wandering around the barracks. I would guess it elicits a lot of kidding.

And all this stuff about "looking" strikes me as really dishonest. Straight guys check each other out all the time. Heck, they're a lot more blatant about it than gay men are. The guys in my high school shower, the straight guys, were always talking about each other's equipment, making jokes, etc.

The shower argument is simply one that is unavoidable and concrete. You have no choice but to do it.
Living arrangements as well.

Other arguments could be unit cohesion (people are going to bite on that one), but that's a pretty subjective argument.
I've never been in an "co-ed" unit, so I have no idea how they handled "romance" between male and female soldiers, but I can only imagine it's a distraction. I know in ROTC it caused some problems, but they were temporary (and being ROTC, we weren't exactly in harms way or performing any vital tasks)

The guys in my high school shower, the straight guys, were always talking about each other's equipment, making jokes, etc.

#175 | Posted by BobSF_94117 at 2010-02-03 03:31 PM | Reply

I'd wait until they were washing their hair and then I'd piss on their legs...

and then I'd piss on their legs...and tell them that I loved them
#177 | Posted by 101Chairborne

The shower argument is simply one that is unavoidable and concrete.

What exactly do they fear? Are they afraid "gayness" is transmitted through the air like a virus? Are they scared of rape? What? Feeling icky? Temptation? What?

Most Gays are in the Navy because they envision going on a cruse with Rosie O'Donnell and her gays. They should just give them a couple od ships they can sail on. How about a submarine. They can paint it pink

and tell them that I loved them
#177 | Posted by 101Chairborne

#178 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 03:39 PM | Reply

I can never tell another living being that I love them. Not since the Llama incident. Not ever!

Most Gays are in the Navy because they envision going on a cruse with Rosie O'Donnell and her gays. They should just give them a couple od ships they can sail on. How about a submarine. They can paint it pink

#180 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: NEWSWORTHY

My gym has a few gay people and they have separate shower stall that all the gays use. When the gym is busy some people wait for another shower than use the gay shower.

My gym has a few gay people and they have separate shower stall that all the gays use. When the gym is busy some people wait for another shower than use the gay shower.

#183 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 03:44 PM

His gym is deep in the closet.

Homosexuals have been welcome in the Israeli army for a long time now. No one's ever accused the Israeli army of being a bunch of pussies. Valis

Why do people insist on comparing us to the Israeli army? We are not the Israeli's, we are Americans. Just because one country does it doesn't mean we have to. I'm not even arguing against gays in the military. I just think it's ridiculous to say that because one country does something that we should do the same thing. It's a ludicrous argument.

How about a submarine. They can paint it pink

#180 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Fantasizes about things that are hard, long, round, and full of se(a)men

CUM ON MY FACE

#158 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-02-03 03:01 PM

Everlong,

I don't think it is "Israel does it so we should." I see it as "the arguments against it have already been proven largely exaggerated by armies with openly gay soldiers; like Israel."

Apart from the biologists on the DR, I would surmise that most straight men do not consider gay men "the same sex". With the term "sex" being used as a subsititute for gender in common language.

Men's rooms have urinals because the people who go in there have penises, not because they watch Monday Night Football, hunt or smoke cigars. Watching you dance around this is hilarious...especially since you opened this can of worms.

would surmise that most straight men do not consider gay men "the same sex".

He just blew his "troll cover" and it was a great job of trolling too. Nobody is really THIS stupid.

What exactly do they fear? Are they afraid "gayness" is transmitted through the air like a virus? Are they scared of rape? What? Feeling icky? Temptation? What?

#179 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 03:42 PM | Reply

Fear may be too strong of a word. Perhaps they aren't comfortable with it in the same way a woman would be uncomfortable in showering with men.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Men that like sucking and fucking men should not be naked alongside of men that don't. Gay men are attracted to men...Men have a hard time coontrolling impulses. I know this is groundbreaking stuff.
What kills me is when a man is being a predator towards women, all sorts of generalities are thrown out there. "Thinks with the wrong head", etc On college campuses the hetero male is a date rape machine, especially when drinking. Some how the ghey mafia wants everyone to believe that gay males aren't the same way...
It's as if it's ok to stereotype the hetero male with those attributes but as entioned earlier, the gays are just so above that type of behavior (until it's used to excuse away the STD's and giant number of partners gay males are reported as having).

The smartest thing for everyone involved to do would be to simply quit enforcing DADT. Don't repeal it, don't enforce it, don't mention it. Pretend as if it never existed and watch it simply fade away.

The problem is the people clamoring to be recognized (note I didn't say the people wanting equality) won't accept that.

"Have you ever been hit on by a gay-guy, Null?"

Don't do anecdotes but when or if that happened I'm sure I didn't freak out like some rightwing Christian.

Don't do anecdotes but when or if that happened I'm sure I didn't freak out like some rightwing Christian.

Not until you realized you left the rubbers in your other jacket

Don't repeal it, don't enforce it, don't mention it. Pretend as if it never existed and watch it simply fade away.

The problem is the people clamoring to be recognized (note I didn't say the people wanting equality) won't accept that.

#192 | Posted by 101Chairborne

As usual you didn't think it thru Mr Torture Werks!(tm)....you can't have a law and then pretend to not know it is there. Some will choose to enforce it and some won't. Then you would have real discrimination problems and more lawsuits.

Repeal it and require the military to act like grown ups and not horny little teenagers. Maybe they can set an example for the rest of us like they did with racial integration.

The shower argument is simply one that is unavoidable and concrete. You have no choice but to do it.

And yet you continue to avoid the fact that for about a dollar you could install some piece of shit plastic wall between each showerhead.

I'd wait until they were washing their hair and then I'd piss on their legs...

Oh, I remember you. I was always amazed to watch you guys horsing around. That time Kevin got you to close your eyes and then slapped your face with his dick was unforgettable!

The smartest thing for everyone involved to do would be to simply quit enforcing DADT.

Not possible. The soldiers who are turning in gay soldiers and seeing nothing happen would make an issue of it, within the military and in the press.

But hey, if you'd rather exclude gays from the military altogether than spend a few bucks installing a wall, more power to you. I'm sure we can spare the manpower given the extended wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and a war with Iran coming right around the corner.

If the argument against "it" is overstated, then why not also have women share shower quarters with men? I mean what's the big deal?

And yet you continue to avoid the fact that for about a dollar you could install some piece of shit plastic wall between each showerhead.

#196 | Posted by JOE at 2010-02-03 04:02 PM | Reply

Great idea...

A) As if anything the military buys or installs costs a dollar
B) Nothing retro-fits that easily and would cost an enormous amount
C) How do you handle the changing area? (picture your college dorm's bathroom...It's what the barracks bathroom looks like)
D) How do you handle the living arrangements?

you can't have a law and then pretend to not know it is there. Some will choose to enforce it and some won't. Then you would have real discrimination problems and more lawsuits.

#195 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-03 04:00 PM | Reply

You're a fucking retard. There are a plethora of laws on the books that are completely ignored and outdated. STFU.

His gym is deep in the closet.

#184 | Posted by kanrei

How about a submarine. They can paint it pink

#180 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Fantasizes about things that are hard, long, round, and full of se(a)men

#186 | Posted by goatman

Both are your comments are rather immature.
If I was gay I would castrate myself. I wouldn't want to live a lifestyle that invloves such horrible sins. If gays repent now maybe the prophet Koresh will put a good word for them with God.

A military barracks is not THEIR OWN BEDROOM. Keep DADT - it works.

Racial segregation worked for a long time, too. Was there any problems? Yes... there were! Human Rights (remember those?) were being violated.

Dear Straight Men,

We have high standards;

You need to workout at least 4 times a week, rock hard abs, pecs, and legs

You must speak Prada

You need to be packin 7+ thick and know how to last (there is a reason your women need vibrators)

You need to groom, hair, skin, feet, manscape! No cheap deodorant, crappy cologne, or $10.00 hair cuts!

You must have a great ass and no gag reflex

You need to be HOT, let's face it 90% of you are just unf*ckable by gay standards

You must be intelligent and almost everyone here who thinks we are unable to control ourselves at the sight of you nude have proven you are NOT!

We are not interested in "servicing" you, if you don't give as good as you get, get the f*ck out!

I hope this clears up the rampant confusion and stupidity.

Not possible. The soldiers who are turning in gay soldiers and seeing nothing happen would make an issue of it, within the military and in the press.

#198 | Posted by rcade at 2010-02-03 04:04 PM | Reply

Completely possible. The military isn't a democracy.
If they see nothing happening they'll quit reporting them. Beyond that, weren't you one of the "Kids now a days are different" posters? I thought they accepted that type of lifestyle with open arms?

Tons of GI's report all sorts of shit that goes nowhere. This wouldn't be any different.

My gym has a few gay people and they have separate shower stall that all the gays use. When the gym is busy some people wait for another shower than use the gay shower.

#183 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Timbecile lives in Pennsyltucky?

Wait until the Blacks and Mexicans split a few heads open.

There are a plethora of laws on the books that are completely ignored and outdated. STFU.

#202 | Posted by 101Chairborne

And they don't cause problems when they are selectively enforced?

Yeah good idea... Keep it and don't enforce it. Unless you hate those faggots, of course, then by all means enforce it!

Rtard. Go back to promoting that Torture Werks! (tm)bonehead... it is more "manly" and more Patriotic than promoting inequality.

A) As if anything the military buys or installs costs a dollar

How much would it cost to buy a thin piece of plastic to put between each showerhead? Is it worth the loss of manpower when you shun gays from the military when we are fighting two wars and about to start a third, to save whatever the plastic walls would cost?

B) Nothing retro-fits that easily and would cost an enormous amount

The wall would likely fit in small metal mounts that screw directly into the wall. How hard could that be? Again, is saving on that installation cost worth the loss of manpower?

C) How do you handle the changing area? (picture your college dorm's bathroom...It's what the barracks bathroom looks like)

Build shower stalls then, and take your clothes with you into the stall. If people in the military are this homophobic, you'd think they could have come up with this by now.

D) How do you handle the living arrangements?

Militarymen are now afraid of living with fags too?

That time Kevin got you to close your eyes and then slapped your face with his dick was unforgettable!

#197 | Posted by BobSF_94117 at 2010-02-03 04:03 PM | Reply

Clearly you're mistaken, I'm not homosexual. I was the guy that got Kevin to pick up his towel and then I jammed the bottle of Prell in his rectum and bounced my scrote off his chin while he cried.
But as I stated, I'm not ghey...

"D) How do you handle the living arrangements?"

The same way they do it now. Why pretend this problem hasn't already been addressed? Most service folks on this blog have said they're already aware of gay members of their outfit. Don't they already shower and sleep in the same barracks?

And they don't cause problems when they are selectively enforced?

#209 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-03 04:24 PM | Reply |

That's the thing stupid, it wouldn't be enforced. Just like the obscure laws on the books.

Honestly, you're thick as a brick. Run along.

#210 | Posted by JOE at 2010-02-03 04:25 PM | Reply

The group that buys a hammer for $500 isn't going to be installing or retro-fitting anything cheaply.

As for living arrangments, why not have chicks and dudes bunk together? What are the women afraid of? I mean we are striving for equality, right? Or is it something different we're after?

"As for living arrangments, why not have chicks and dudes bunk together? "

We don't, and we never have. Why are you trying to manufacture problems?

The same way they do it now. Why pretend this problem hasn't already been addressed? Most service folks on this blog have said they're already aware of gay members of their outfit. Don't they already shower and sleep in the same barracks?

#212 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:27 PM | Reply

I can honestly say I never knew of one gay soldier while I was serving. Nobody was out, and anyone on my wing of the floor that was gay had to be bi, because they all were bringing pigs from the local bar back.
If it's already been addressed perhaps you could enlighten us. How did they address it? What measures are in place currently? What are they looking for?

We don't, and we never have.

#215 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:35 PM | Reply

Why?

Both are your comments are rather immature.
If I was gay I would castrate myself.

#203 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-03 04:20 PM |

ROFLMAO!

Big FF

I'm starting to think I really did go to high school with 101.

The group that buys a hammer for $500 isn't going to be installing or retro-fitting anything cheaply.

That's their problem. To live by your logic we'd need to stop all military expenditures since they can't do anything efficiently.

As for living arrangments, why not have chicks and dudes bunk together?

Because since the vast majority of humans are heterosexual, this presents a more widespread and pervasive potential for problems than the issue of one or two gay guys in a military unit.

Stick the gays in the women's bunk for all I care, or give them their own bunk. Better yet, let the homophobes all share a bunk where they'll be safe from the gays who all secretly rape man-ass at night.

"I can honestly say I never knew of one gay soldier while I was serving. "

So it seems the problem is yours. They were obviously there.

"If it's already been addressed perhaps you could enlighten us. How did they address it? "

By telling the soldiers to STFU and follow orders. Are you really going to pretend this isn't done every single day?

If I was gay I would castrate myself.

Ya always struck me as a bottom, so I don't see how that matters much...

"Why?"

STFU, soldier.

#205 | Posted by tygersilver at 2010-02-03 04:21 PM

How many times do I have to say it?

Gay men want GAY men!

If you don't suck dick...WE DON'T WANT TO FUCK AROUND WITH YOU!

By telling the soldiers to STFU and follow orders. Are you really going to pretend this isn't done every single day?

#221 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:39 PM | Reply

???

DADT addressed it. We still have DADT. So how can gays living and showering with dudes already have been addressed?

Regardless, you and I do agree on something. In the military they tell you to STFU and move on every single day. That's why completely ignoring DADT and never enforcing it would work.
The problem with not enforcing it is that the people pretending they care about equality won't accept it, because it's not about equality but instead bringing issues and forcing change.

I'm starting to think I really did go to high school with 101.

Elmira Correctional Facility or the New York State Psychiatric Institute?

If I was gay I would castrate myself.

That's SO GAY!!!

You dumb fuck, I would not fuck ANYONE with a beergut.

You don't know me and I would not fuck you!

#223 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:41 PM | Re

Well that's what the gays are being told now about their sexuality. Yet you don't like that, do you dan?

"Elmira Correctional Facility or the New York State Psychiatric Institute?"

Catatonic State

Could have been Psychotic State ...

Watsamatta U?

That's their problem.
#220 | Posted by JOE at 2010-02-03 04:39 PM | Reply |

Actually it's ours as taxpayers. Regardless, you're the one that wanted to talk turkey on some plastic costing us a $1 and how easy it would be to do...Until I pointed out otherwise.

So it seems the problem is yours. They were obviously there.

#221 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:39 PM | Reply

The ghey mafia now thinks it's a problem if you don't know of or meet gays?

What percentage of the population do you think is gay? Do you think that same population tranfers to the military in general and Combat Arms specifically?

Actually it's ours as taxpayers. Regardless, you're the one that wanted to talk turkey on some plastic costing us a $1 and how easy it would be to do...Until I pointed out otherwise.

I didn't actually mean it would cost one dollar. You haven't posted anything which proves it would be hard to install. Go take a shit at your work and tell me how many screws are holding up the walls around the toilet. Tell me how long that would take to install.

But as I stated, I'm not ghey...

#211 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-03 04:26 PM remains to be seen

There were sodomy laws on the books and they were (are?) selectively enforced.

Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor. In 1962 Illinois became the first state to end its sodomy laws, almost a decade before another state followed. Over the years, many of the states that did not repeal their sodomy laws had enacted legislation reducing the penalty. Immediately prior to the Lawrence decision in 2003, the penalty for violating a sodomy law varied very widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction among those states retaining their sodomy laws. The most harsh penalties were in the state of Idaho, where a person convicted of sodomy could theoretically earn a life sentence. Michigan followed, with a maximum penalty of 15 years imprisonment (repeat offenders got life), this was later invalidated by a Court case under Michigan Organization for Human Rights v. Kelly.

Around the time of the 2003 Supreme Court decision, the laws in most US states were no longer enforced, or were very selectively enforced. The continued presence of these rarely enforced laws on the statute books, however, was often cited as justification for discrimination against gay men and lesbians.

runnng along now massa! Got actual work to do anyway..

enjoi yer gheyness or lack thereof!

Got to split.
Catch you mo's tomorrow.

"The ghey mafia now thinks it's a problem if you don't know of or meet gays? "

I doubt it. But you've known, met, and served alongside teh gheys for as long as you were in the service, and they've been serving honorable for generations. The only difference now is they can be open about their sexuality while serving, just like all the guys who brought pigs back to the wing to fuck back in your time. Still, this pretense that all types of new, unforeseen problems will suddenly crop up is pretty funny. And all it really adds up to is an admission you'd be the one with the problem if you were still serving.

"What percentage of the population do you think is gay? Do you think that same population tranfers to the military in general and Combat Arms specifically?"

I don't know and I don't care, and ultimately, it doesn't matter. Are gays full citizens, or second-class ones? I'm convinced once we get on the other side of this, we're going to wonder what all the fuss was about. We'll be looking at it the same way we currently look at segregated drinking fountains: what were we thinking?!?

I don't understand the term "Gay Mafia" and I never have. The Mafia denies its own existence, wants to remain in the shadows, and would love for you to forget they exist. This is the opposite of the gay movement.

Kanrei scratches head, "I don't understand the term "Gay Mafia" ..."

I love it when you elitists play at being ignorant ... or, maybe ...?

Could you actually be abstractly challenged, having been extorted by your party since you were old enough to be brainwashed?

I think that must be it, an ostrich (that is someone who hides from the truth, Kanrei) for party over reason ...

I'm saying you're a political fool, Kanrei, in case you missed the rest ...

By the Kanrei scratches head, I can see Tad thinks anything he says means something and will be read. Sorry Tad.

If I was gay I would castrate myself.

Ya always struck me as a bottom, so I don't see how that matters much...

#222 | Posted by BobSF_94117

I have no idea what they means. I try to stay away from sexual deviants. We did kick a gay guy out of ther Sons of the Confederacy.We had to remove his taoo with my father's hunting knife.

Why are you trying to manufacture problems?

#215 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-02-03 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

We as a country manufactured the current problem Danny. Had we kept women and gays out of combat units alone we would have less issues than we do now. PC BS has brought us to this point.

#1 job of military - kill people and blow shit up - not equality for all. Don't like it - move to Canada where they don't need an army.

Or Israel where both women and gays openly and proudly serve in the IDF. (And kick ass as well.)

"We as a country manufactured the current problem Danny."

If you mean by treating gays as second-class citizens, I'll agree.

"#1 job of military - kill people and blow shit up - not equality for all."

So gays get to fight and die for what they can't participate in?

"Don't like it - move to Canada where they don't need an army."

Why don't you move to New Burkastan instead? You'd fit in well.

"#1 job of military - kill people and blow shit up

The #1 job of the military is to defend lives. If that takes killing people, so be it, but that is not their job.

The Iraq War resulted in under performing recruitment efforts. We're supposed to deny women and gays when we can't recruit enough without having already lowered our standards as we did the past several years? We'd be in a hell of a pickle if we didn't allow just about anyone who wanted to serve a spot in the armed forces.

Kanrei, unfortunately I disagree with your post #248. The #1 job of the U.S. military has always been to serve as an aggressive (overwhelming) arm of U.S. policy in pursuit of our economic and geopolitical goals. Defending lives may be mentioned somewhere in the military's mission statement, but certainly nowhere near the top.

I guess I should rephrase:

The #1 job of the US Military is to protect American interests and lives; in that order.

Or Israel where both women and gays openly and proudly serve in the IDF. (And kick ass as well.)

But many, if not most, are righwingers, so according to what you said yesterday, you despise them anyway. What a hypocrite.

Trollman, wtf? Try to make sense.

Just out of curiousity, m8, would your love for gay man's rights be offset by your irratiional hatred if you found out the was a republican? I'll bet that would just tie your little bigoted brain into all kinds of irreversible knots. LOL

Keep DADT - it works. -- #151 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Fine. Then apply it to heterosexuals too -- i.e., kick out anyone who makes his or her sexual preference known.

would your love for gay man's rights be offset by your irratiional hatred if you found out the was a republican? I'll bet that would just tie your little bigoted brain into all kinds of irreversible knots.

Keep an eye on the Illinois senate race for Obama's old seat. A gay republican just won the primary and the supposedly tolerant left will be having a field day with his sexuality.

#254 | Posted by goatman at 2010-02-03 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Are you trying to say that there's a difference between being an openly gay man and one who has a wide stance in the men's room at the MSP airport?

Is it true that Kirk's gay? I thought that was just a rumor.

Is it true that Kirk's gay? I thought that was just a rumor.

I heard Elton John is.

Are you trying to say that there's a difference between being an openly gay man and one who has a wide stance in the men's room at the MSP airport?

Re-read the question after you finish that remedial reading comprehension course. The message was simple and did not involve airports, bathrooms, or wide stances. How your mind gravitated towards those items, I'll never know.

God, I wish George Patton was still around.

#260 | Posted by goatman at 2010-02-03 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

No difference in R or D.

They both are equally involved in this.

some choose to be open some choose to hide it

No difference in R or D.

They both are equally involved in this.

some choose to be open some choose to hide it

That is true

God, I wish George Patton was still around. -- #261 | Posted by wisgod

Imagine a military officer falling in love with one of his troops.

Imagine a military officer wanting to protect his love(r) from harms way?

Imagine a military officer giving special favors and duties to his love(r).

Imagine all military discipline and morale breaking down in that unit.

Imagine the U.S. losing wars because we (most of whom have not served) view the military as a social experiment and not for what it is: A Killing Machine, meant to break things and kill our enemies, win wars and keep us safe.

Many of our so-called leaders -- even those in the military who have become mere political hacks looking for the next promotion -- would sacrifice our security to be seen as "tolerant".

its probably ok. the barracks need some redecorating anyway.

Imagine how stupid you sound somehow seeing gay people as the cause of losing a hopeless war!

EVERYONE seems to be missing the point, it's not about showers...these men and women are living in tents in the desert with 100+ temps., they only put clothes ON when on duty! They live in boxers and tank tops!! They see each other every day, all day, for months at a time! Some like each other, some don't, some become friends, some hate each other, that's just human nature.

The issue is that a gay person can be discharged for no other reason than being gay. There have been many of these discharges, even when service records are perfect, even when other soldiers and commanding officers have spoken up for the accused. It's just descrimination, plain and simple, it does not matter what misconceptions about gay people you cling to, what bible verse you try to quote, or whatever bullshit you tell yourself to justify it, these soldiers are risking life and limb to defend this country and spitting in their faces just makes you a shitty person.

I enjoy pointing out the double standards,... -- #143 | Posted by 101Chairborne

The only double standard I see is that heterosexual men cannot imagine being asked to keep their sexual preference a secret, but expect gay men to do it.

The other analogies -- women being uncomfortable showering with men -- seem silly to me. I used to work at a restaurant where about 1/3 of the staff were lesbians, we changed clothes in the same room all the time, and I honestly never thought about it until years later when thinking about male homophobia. (The women I worked with had names, interests, personalities, etc., as opposed to being cartoons stamped LESBIAN.)

The irony is what *some* straight men on this thread miss -- that THEY are much more likely to be the problem. It is much more common for straight men to harass gay men than the other way around, and much more common for straight men to harass women than for lesbians to harass other women. I can't see coddling soldiers afraid to shower with gay men any more than I can see coddling soldiers afraid to shower with black men.

How many times do I have to say it?
Gay men want GAY men!
If you don't suck dick...WE DON'T WANT TO FUCK AROUND WITH YOU!

#225 | Posted by tygersilver

Anyone thats read "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" by Tucker Max knows that is bullshit. He says it in his book, when a girl took him to a gay club, that "its a big deal for a gay guy to nail a straight dude". That being said, Tyger, the reason they still have these rules on the books is because it allows them to prosecute or remove from service men and women that disgrace the uniform.

I seem to recall a case out of North Carolina involving several Marines making gay porn. And not to mention the risk of HIV, and having to deploy to a combat zone (where bodily fluids tend to fly through the air along with shrapnel.) As a medic, I dont want to put myself at risk by treating someone with an incurable and fatal disease.

Anyone thats read "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell" by Tucker Max knows...

Then if you read John Updike's rabbit trilogy, you'd know all men are misogynists?

As a medic, I dont want to put myself at risk by treating someone with an incurable and fatal disease. -- #269 | Posted by americanPLY

Huh? Gay men all have AIDS?

If you were a medic in the military you'd know that they screen for HIV and require a negative test for deployment.

As a medic, I dont want to put myself at risk by treating someone with an incurable and fatal disease.
#269 | POSTED BY AMERICANPLY

Typical of you I suppose. But not to freak you out or anything, not just gay people get HIV... I swear some of y'all are gettin dumber..

I also know Pheonix that it takes up to 6 months for it to be readable, and that a ton of these guys get last minute nuts in before deployment. Its the same principal as excluding homosexuals from donating blood. Its a no bullshit approach to safety.

All gay men have AIDS? No, they are just at a huge risk of acquiring it.

To quote Sam Kinison, "They're (straights) are just dropping like flies"

Anybody that knows anything about risk mitigation, knows you have to cut corners where you can. and suppressing a risky lifestyle is one of them.

Sorry Greeneyed, but if it comes down to being "accepting" of someones sexual practices, and curtailing the risk of having HIV infected blood and shit sprayed on me, im going to say curtail it. Im already putting myself at risk of being exposed to TB and nasty bacterial infections, HIV is something im NOT willing to subject myself to.

americanply might be the dumbest person on this blog. Risky sex is Risky sex. Plenty of straight people have HIV. Use proper precautions no matter who is the patient and you'll be ok.

Plenty balls. Im not talking about some calm hospital setting. Im talking about EFP's and gunshot wounds. I dont have time to put on gloves (or BSI) before I have to tourniquet an arm, or plug a bullethole.

Plenty of straight people DONT have HIV. Genital warts, herpes, the clap, yeah ill buy that. But gays are at a heightened risk of contracting it, thats a statistical fact.

Government, since the beginning of time, has always regulated BEHAVIOR. Some behaviors are acceptable, and some arent. Taking it in the butt is WRONG.

Besides that, I dont want gay men enticing sex deprived servicemen on deployments.

Americanply is quoting Tucker Max as an expert?

His own words from tuckermax.com

My name is Tucker Max, and I am an asshole.

I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.

Sounds like Tucker is the one with AIDS!!

Yeah, isn't he the f(*&&in man?

If you are what passes for medically trained personel it's a wonder anyone survives injury in combat!!

For the sake of us all, please change jobs after service!!

It is only a maater og time before the gay militants will call for lesbos and homos to be promoted because they are gay.

Then they will demand Obama appoint a gay to the Joint Chiefs. The gay militants will keep pressing until hereosexual sex is outlawed

How do we get labeled "Militant" for demanding equal (not special) rights?

In my experience, the ones who yell the loudest want it the most!!

If you are homophobic you are scared of your own homosexual thoughts!!

If you are what passes for medically trained personel it's a wonder anyone survives injury in combat!!
For the sake of us all, please change jobs after service!!
#279 | Posted by tygersilver

Dont assume that having an opinion makes you knowledgeable about injury, combat, or even service. (unless your talking about servicing another man)

How do we get labeled "Militant" for demanding equal (not special) rights?

In my experience, the ones who yell the loudest want it the most!!

If you are homophobic you are scared of your own homosexual thoughts!!

#281 | Posted by tygersilver

Not son you got equal rights. YOu just want special rights. You want the military to accommodate you so you can serve as a gay American instead of an American. YOu want hate crime legislation so you can differentiate homicides from gay homicides. I can go on and on. you are a gay militant.

Homophobic LOL. That word is meaningless. If you disagree with a gay militant, they call you homophobes. Everyone is America is slowly realizing this. Keep crying wolf. People will accept the Sons of the Confederacy long before they accept gay militants

Not son you got equal rights. YOu just want special rights. You want the military to accommodate you so you can serve as a gay American instead of an American. YOu want hate crime legislation so you can differentiate homicides from gay homicides. I can go on and on. you are a gay militant.

#283 | POSTED BY TIMBCI

Wrong, they don't want special rights. How about the following...

Can a gay soldier have a picture of his partner hanging in his locker and receive letters from his partner? No, they are forced to use 'female names' so that no one finds out.

Pretty sure hetero soldiers don't have issues with that.

It's sad that you think they need special rights to receive a letter from their loved one using their real name.

Can a gay soldier have a picture of his partner hanging in his locker and receive letters from his partner? No, they are forced to use 'female names' so that no one finds out.

Pretty sure hetero soldiers don't have issues with that.

It's sad that you think they need special rights to receive a letter from their loved one using their real name.

#284 | Posted by greeneyedguy at 2010-02-04 04:27 PM | Reply

You're full of shit. They can hang the picture in their locker, they can get letters from people with their real names, etc
Don't Ask, Don't Tell...It's not complicated.

Q. Who's picture is that?
A. "None of your business"

Q. Who is that letter from?
A. "What the fuck do you care?"

As if anyone looks at the name on their mail.

It's sad that you think they need special rights to receive a letter from their loved one using their real name.

#284 | Posted by greeneyedguy

they should be using secret codewords anyway...its a War!

and no sex talk should be allowed either... it interferes with all the killing that needs to be done.

Can a gay soldier have a picture of his partner hanging in his locker and receive letters from his partner? No, they are forced to use 'female names' so that no one finds out.

Who the fuck writes letters? Ever hear of the internet? I got a locker at the gym and I have no photos. I got a photo from the Sons of the Confederacy benefit in Hoboken, NJ and a photo of the Confederate flag.

As if anyone looks at the name on their mail.

Dozens of servicemen have been discharged because someone read their mail. Here's one:

A letter on his own desk was enough to get Alex Nicholson, an Army intelligence officer, kicked out. Nicholson, who speaks five languages, wrote a letter to his boyfriend in another language. Another officer saw the letter and translated it.

Sooo tired of hearing the same old lines from homophobes!

"you have equal rights" FUCKING LIE!

"Don't ask don't tell" but if someone accuses you get discharged!

What EXACTLY are you so scared of you fucking PUSSIES?

OHH the big mean homos are out to get me?

It's just none of your business what anybody does with any other consenting adult...GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY BEDROOM!

The confederacy LOST you racist inbred dumbfuck!

I pay taxes but have NO representation! I pay for your brats education and school lunches you can't afford.

Sooo tired of hearing the same old lines from homophobes!

"you have equal rights" FUCKING LIE!

"Don't ask don't tell" but if someone accuses you get discharged!

What EXACTLY are you so scared of you fucking PUSSIES?

OHH the big mean homos are out to get me?

It's just none of your business what anybody does with any other consenting adult...GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY BEDROOM!

The confederacy LOST you racist inbred dumbfuck!

I pay taxes but have NO representation! I pay for your brats education and school lunches you can't afford.

Son. You need to grow up. You do not pay for my kids education. I never went to public school nor have my kids. As far as school lunches go, your kidding me right. That is for poor people. Son unless you live in Washington Dc, you have representation in Congress.

I realize the Confederacy lost. the Sons of the Confederacy celebrate our ancestors who supported the Confederacy in NJ.

I am sure many enlisted men would love to stay out of your bedroom but being they would share it with you in the military that would be hard to do.

I have no problem with gays serving in the military keeping their sexuality to themselves but you know this will turn into an issue. The miitant gays will join the military look to become a disturbance to further their cause

People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers. The idea that they would have difficulty serving with someone who is gay is ridiculous. This isn't the '50s anymore. Everybody knows that gays exist. Many straight soldiers already know gays they are serving with.
We're drumming hundreds if not thousands of good soldiers out of the military over something that has nothing to do with their fitness to serve. How can anyone justify letting a talented Arabic translator go because he or she happens to be gay and somebody finds this out?
#12 | Posted by rcade at 2010-02-02 08:38 PM

To send a message throughout the entire military that crucial Arabic translation will be outsourced only. It also enables "selective" information to be "culled", rather than using by the book interrogation and translation techniques. Why would they have outsourced anything related to this war? To perpetuate the lies that it's for:

1. Weapons of mass destruction.
2. Save the Iraqi from a ruthless dictator.
3. Spread democracy.
4. Pay for the invasion with their own oil profit.
5. Kill Osama bin Laden.
6. Not to stage further conflicts in neighboring nations.

Gays serving in the United States Military have not historically had internal support, particularly true while DADT is enthusiastically enforced, therefore causing much critical analysis to be ignored as "an agenda of social experimentation", imo.

Oh, TIMBCI?

I want to help you out, 'son'. Seems you don't know where the Newport Water Ferry you take 'every night' is located. Or that really tall building anyone who isn't blind can see just to their left as they dock. I'll help ya out:

"Can a gay soldier have a picture of his partner hanging in his locker and receive letters from his partner? No, they are forced to use 'female names' so that no one finds out."

Who the fuck writes letters? Ever hear of the internet? I got a locker at the gym and I have no photos. I got a photo from the Sons of the Confederacy benefit in Hoboken, NJ and a photo of the Confederate flag.
#287 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-04 05:08 PM

What do your black friends think about that photo?

Do you have any friends not of your ethnicity? How about non-Christian friends?

What do your black friends think about that photo?

Do you have any friends not of your ethnicity? How about non-Christian friends?

#293 | Posted by redlightrobot

The guy in the locker next to me is black and he tried to rip it down. I slammed the locker door on his hand. I have not seen him at the gym since

Oh, TIMBCI?

I want to help you out, 'son'. Seems you don't know where the Newport Water Ferry you take 'every night' is located. Or that really tall building anyone who isn't blind can see just to their left as they dock. I'll help ya out:

www.drudge.com

#292 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Actually I took it home yesterday

People against the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell have a pretty low opinion of America's soldiers. The idea that they would have difficulty serving with someone who is gay is ridiculous. This isn't the '50s anymore. Everybody knows that gays exist. Many straight soldiers already know gays they are serving with.
We're drumming hundreds if not thousands of good soldiers out of the military over something that has nothing to do with their fitness to serve. How can anyone justify letting a talented Arabic translator go because he or she happens to be gay and somebody finds this out

Not really. Many people don't want to associate with gay people. They will if they have to. I don't really care either way. The gay militants almost always get their way

What do your black friends think about that photo?
Do you have any friends not of your ethnicity? How about non-Christian friends?
#293 | Posted by redlightrobot

The guy in the locker next to me is black and he tried to rip it down. I slammed the locker door on his hand. I have not seen him at the gym since
#294 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-04 06:54 PM

Infiltration doesn't appear to be your agenda, confrontation does. Are you fighting a moral fight by slamming someones hand or could you have explained how you felt about your flags symbolism and perhaps gotten some meager form of approval?

You sound easily intimidated if you need to result to aggression, imo.

TIMBCI

Guess what, we have all heard your bullshit and lies, you slammed some black guys hand in your locker and chased him out of the gym? The gym in your mind? Make you feel like a big man?

Come on down here to Atlanta and try that...you won't live long!

Racist, homophobe, worthless shit, Dumb Jersey TRASH!!

no one is your "son"...just makes you sound as trashy and stupid as you must look!

Infiltration doesn't appear to be your agenda, confrontation does. Are you fighting a moral fight by slamming someones hand or could you have explained how you felt about your flags symbolism and perhaps gotten some meager form of approval?

You sound easily intimidated if you need to result to aggression, imo.

#298 | Posted by redlightrobot

anyone who touches my property without permission gets a smack. He was rude and got what he deserved

anyone who touches my property without permission gets a smack

" the toughest of the internet tough guys. "

TIMBCI

Guess what, we have all heard your bullshit and lies, you slammed some black guys hand in your locker and chased him out of the gym? The gym in your mind? Make you feel like a big man?

Come on down here to Atlanta and try that...you won't live long!

Racist, homophobe, worthless shit, Dumb Jersey TRASH!!

no one is your "son"...just makes you sound as trashy and stupid as you must look!

#299 | Posted by tygersilver

I never said I chased him out of the gym. I siad I have not seen him since. there would have been no issue if he didn't touch my property.

As far as going to Atlanta, my family has a house in Palmetto Dunes in Hilton Head. As you well know Hitlon Head is not far from Atlanta.

You are not very eloquent. What does stupid look like.

Furthermore, homophobe has very little meaning in American culture because gay militants use the word so often. It is like crying wolf.

I'd like to have given Paris Hilton head back before she became a gettering site for STDs.

Guess what, we have all heard your bullshit and lies

I liked the one he told yesterday about cutting a tattoo off of a gay guy's arm. You have to admit, though, this would be a duller world without internet tough guys.

anyone who touches my property without permission gets a smack

timbci, the toughest of the internet tough guys.

#301 | Posted by goatman

Son standing up to someone who tries to destroy your property is called being a man not a tough guy

" You have to admit, though, this would be a duller world without internet tough guys."

You might be forced to watch black and white films of Sing Along With Mitch in the rig Rec Room.

.....gays in the military could only be an issue in a backward country like America or Afghanistan......

......Britain, Canada, Israel, Holland, Germany...they serve openly everywhere except in the backward lands of Talibans and Talibaptists......

I was watching Southpark last night. Apparently the word "fag" has a new definition having nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Son standing up to someone who tries to destroy your property is called being a man not a tough guy

Nope, but having to make up lies about having done it makes you an internet tough guy. BTW, if I am your son, you must be really, really fucking old because I am really fucking old myself. Funny how a geritol guzzler like you could be so tough. LOL

"I was watching Southpark last night."

When you could be here?
Why?
Starvin' Marvin?

Have you ever watched Blood of a Poet?

Funny how a geritol guzzler like you could be so tough. LOL
#310 | Posted by goatman

......he's had so many parts replaced, he thinks he's bionic.........

Un Chien Andalou - Trailer

"Infiltration doesn't appear to be your agenda, confrontation does. Are you fighting a moral fight by slamming someones hand or could you have explained how you felt about your flags symbolism and perhaps gotten some meager form of approval?
You sound easily intimidated if you need to result to aggression, imo.
#298 | Posted by redlightrobot"

anyone who touches my property without permission gets a smack. He was rude and got what he deserved
#300 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-04 07:22 PM

Considering how the entirety of Black Americans and the majority of Whites view the Confederate flag and it's historical connotations with racial intolerance, extreme violence and White nationalism is it really any wonder that particular piece of property wasn't welcome outside of your domicile? Why would you bring that to the gymnasium? It appears as if you set a "retard trap" to bait someone, perhaps the Black guy in the locker next to yours? Didn't he get the hint from your gun rack? It looks like poor judgment on your part, and bad manners on his.

I approve of freedom of speech and expression, but it does carry an obvious responsibility.

What do you have against diversity? Reasoning that a more diverse culture has better opportunity for growth wouldn't your organization suffer less with more inclusion? Scaring people away doesn't seem to be a sound tactic. You had lots of opportunity to get to know your locker companion, but also failed to recognize that. Your survival training should perhaps cover etiquette and Black history.

#300 | POSTED BY TIMBCI
"anyone who touches my property without permission gets a smack. He was rude and got what he deserved"

#306 | POSTED BY TIMBCI
"standing up to someone who tries to destroy your property is called being a man not a tough guy"

So tell us, Timmy, how'd that work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much?

As far as going to Atlanta, my family has a house in Palmetto Dunes in Hilton Head. As you well know Hitlon Head is not far from Atlanta.

You are not very eloquent. What does stupid look like.

Furthermore, homophobe has very little meaning in American culture because gay militants use the word so often. It is like crying wolf.

#303 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-04 07:37 PM | Reply | Flag

Culturally Atlanta and Hilton Head are worlds apart, over 4 hour drive with no traffic.

I am not eloquent? You use the word "son" like some dumb redneck! What does stupid look like? Find a mirror and see for yourself!

Homophobe means you are scared of homosexuals, which you have proved. You have heard it often because you have made it clear you are a homophobe!

Seriously, get some therapy...stop all the self loathing and come out already!

As you well know Hitlon Head is not far from Atlanta.

I guess you are not talking about the Hilton Head in South Carolina. It is on the coast about 4 hour drive away. What are you talking about?

And when I stop to really think about it, I would far, far prefer being in a public shower with potentially gay men than being in the same public shower with Goatman. Any day of the week. I find the notion of the latter way creepier.

Culturally Atlanta and Hilton Head are worlds apart, over 4 hour drive with no traffic.

I am not eloquent? You use the word "son" like some dumb redneck! What does stupid look like? Find a mirror and see for yourself!

Homophobe means you are scared of homosexuals, which you have proved. You have heard it often because you have made it clear you are a homophobe!

Seriously, get some therapy...stop all the self loathing and come out already!

#316 | Posted by tygersilver

Find a mirror and look for yourself. That comment is what I expect from a 12 year old. Congrats you proved my point. You are not very eloquent. If I was fearful of Homosexuals that is the current term not scared) I would not stand up to them and fight for my rights. It is so amusing that all you deviants start crying homophobe the second anyone objects to anything you say. It is almost as bad as when Al Sharpton crys racism.

The funny thing is that you accuse me of being gay and then tell me to get therapy. So you agree with me that homosexual behavior is self-destructive and damages the psyche.

So tell us, Timmy, how'd that work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much?

#315 | Posted by TheTom

My name is not Timmy. Nice try though

And when I stop to really think about it, I would far, far prefer being in a public shower with potentially gay men than being in the same public shower with Goatman. Any day of the week. I find the notion of the latter way creepier.

#318 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-02-04 08:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Prefers to shower with sheepmen

Considering how the entirety of Black Americans and the majority of Whites view the Confederate flag and it's historical connotations with racial intolerance, extreme violence and White nationalism is it really any wonder that particular piece of property wasn't welcome outside of your domicile? Why would you bring that to the gymnasium? It appears as if you set a "retard trap" to bait someone, perhaps the Black guy in the locker next to yours? Didn't he get the hint from your gun rack? It looks like poor judgment on your part, and bad manners on his

Of course I was baiting someone but it wasn't him. It was a liberal loudmouth who told me all whites are racist. I don't have a gun rack. I drive an SUV. I am a Son of the Confederacy and the flag is part of my heritage.

I prefer to shower alone.
But when I shower with someone else, I shower with The Goddess.

I'm bald with a white beard and she's still without a gray hair.

Oh cruel fate!!

Oh Timbci,

Let me see if I got all this...

You and your mother were members of the Waco Koresh Cult? Your mother was killed in the raid? You escaped to promote his teachings and the "Sons of the confederacy"? You can't find the Atlantic building adjacent to the ferry you take everyday, and think Hilton Head SC is close to Atlanta? You bait people with the confederate flag, cut tattos off gay guys that inflitrate your "club", your mother lived at Waco but has property in Hilton Head? I really can't imagine cult members vacationing in Hilton Head.

It's all just too much!!

And NO, I never agreeded with you about anything, I said YOU need therapy.

Gonna leave now, my invisible jet is warmed up so I can fly off to Mars for the weekend, I'm meeting up with Jesus and Mary to work out the details of the second comming, I'll be sure to ask them about that whole Waco thing...

#324:

Then there's the convoluted stories of his position in investment firms where his secretary used to suck his dick, then later we find out it was his sister who his cousin (or some family member) hired to a top position.

It got so bizarre, I forget all the details, but the above is a general idea of how it went.

Why do people feel the need to impress anonymous persons on the internet? And if they feel that need, why don't they at least keep their lies semi-believable?

Internet Tough Guys:

GOATMAN

You get the email I sent ya?

You get the email I sent ya?

From yesterday? Yes. Interesting attachment

Ya, from this morning.

this morning

LOL My bad. This morning is yesterday to me since I work nights and sleep days. I always confuse people when I say "yesterday".

BTW, how was/is the birthday celebration?

Really good, thanks GOAT. Italian dinner out. Favorite present was the new Dan Brown book, 3rd in the DiVinci Code series, "The Lost Symbol". If it's half as good as the first two it's gonna be a good read.

Goat, as an FYI---

Randy Goss of County Line BBQ fame got swept away in his car at Blanco and Specht's Road today and died.

Shitty deal.

Fuck.

I think I know exactly where that crossing is, too. Isn't that up by Bulverde? West of there?

I prefer to shower alone.
But when I shower with someone else, I shower with The Goddess.
I'm bald with a white beard and she's still without a gray hair.
Oh cruel fate!!
#323 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-02-04 08:35 PM

Well-kept beards never lose attraction. either you're a sexy Captain Picard muxe Lex Luthor or an over-sexed Billy Zane, so perhaps you have a point.. Seriously, there is only one reason good to shower together..:]

Oh Timbci,
Let me see if I got all this...
You and your mother were members of the Waco Koresh Cult? Your mother was killed in the raid? You escaped to promote his teachings and the "Sons of the confederacy"? You can't find the Atlantic building adjacent to the ferry you take everyday, and think Hilton Head SC is close to Atlanta? You bait people with the confederate flag, cut tattos off gay guys that inflitrate your "club", your mother lived at Waco but has property in Hilton Head? I really can't imagine cult members vacationing in Hilton Head.
It's all just too much!!
And NO, I never agreeded with you about anything, I said YOU need therapy.
Gonna leave now, my invisible jet is warmed up so I can fly off to Mars for the weekend, I'm meeting up with Jesus and Mary to work out the details of the second comming, I'll be sure to ask them about that whole Waco thing...
#324 | Posted by tygersilver at 2010-02-04 08:48 PM

The only people I've ever heard of that religiously cut out other peoples tattoos are European Kindred..

That said, isn't our troll so cute! He's bursting at the seams from such excellent, regular feedings.

timbi - I mock, but it's interesting how unwilling you are to legitimately defend yourself. What you claim as "reasonable" is quite arguably "not". Provoking someone with intention to harm is quite a dangerous pathos. I'm uncertain why you are proud of your Confederate flag heritage if you plaster it where others will ridicule it.

Billy Zane mixed Steve Zissou!

I think I know exactly where that crossing is, too. Isn't that up by Bulverde? West of there?

Yep.

Right there in the flat with all the coastal fields---by Specht's Store.

On the Bexar/Comal County Line.

Ironically enough.

#319 | POSTED BY TIMBCI
"That comment is what I expect from a 12 year old."

Timmy, Are you referring to one of David Koresh's child rape victims?

"The funny thing is that you accuse me of being gay and then tell me to get therapy. So you agree with me that homosexual behavior is self-destructive and damages the psyche."

Is that your best excuse for logic?
Speaking of 12-year-old comments...
You're not very bright, Timmy.

#320 | POSTED BY TIMBCI
"My name is not Timmy."

Never said your name was Timmy, I simply called you Timmy.
Learn the difference.

It seems you haven't answered my question yet...so I'll ask it again.
How did things work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much?

Funny, but you're against gays, but you have NO PROBLEM with a man raping a 12-year-old girl.
In fact, you seem to find it laudable.
Is this typical for members of the Sons of the Confederacy?
Or are you a little black sheep in the cult?

How did things work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much?

Didn't you hear, he got whacked by the gay mafia. Now he's getting blowjobs from little angels through a glory hole in heaven's bathroom.

Oh, that's right!
I keep forgetting how informed and on top of things Timmy is.

Or is he more of a bottom?

Or are you a little black sheep in the cult?

Nobody's a black sheep. They all wear red snuggies, drink hooch condensed in the same radiator, and skullfuck the same freshly-killed opossum.

How did things work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much?

You are a kool aid drinker. THe prophet David Koresh never raped anyone. It is amazing how all you peons believe all the lies told be the federal gov't

Never said your name was Timmy, I simply called you Timmy.
Learn the difference.

It seems you haven't answered my question yet...so I'll ask it again.
How did things work out for that deranged rapist you love and admire so much

You are a fool. I mean do all butt surfers act like you.

David Koresh was a great man. As a matter of fact when the truth comes out David Koresh will have a national day of remembrance. Schools will be named after him.

Then there's the convoluted stories of his position in investment firms where his secretary used to suck his dick, then later we find out it was his sister who his cousin (or some family member) hired to a top position.

It got so bizarre, I forget all the details, but the above is a general idea of how it went.

Why do people feel the need to impress anonymous persons on the internet? And if they feel that need, why don't they at least keep their lies semi-believable?

#325 | Posted by goatman

I never said she was hired as a top position. She used to work with me in GELP. I recommended her to my brother in Wealth Mgmt. She is his sales assistant.

David Koresh was a great man.

Please explain why... reading your "rationale" will be far funnier than anything on late night TV.

As a matter of fact when the truth comes out David Koresh will have a national day of remembrance.

LOL...

NAMBLA is going to have to do a little more lobbying before that will happen.

Oh Timbci,
Let me see if I got all this...
You and your mother were members of the Waco Koresh Cult? Your mother was killed in the raid? You escaped to promote his teachings and the "Sons of the confederacy"? You can't find the Atlantic building adjacent to the ferry you take everyday, and think Hilton Head SC is close to Atlanta? You bait people with the confederate flag, cut tattos off gay guys that inflitrate your "club", your mother lived at Waco but has property in Hilton Head? I really can't imagine cult members vacationing in Hilton Head.
It's all just too much!!
And NO, I never agreeded with you about anything, I said YOU need therapy.
Gonna leave now, my invisible jet is warmed up so I can fly off to Mars for the weekend, I'm meeting up with Jesus and Mary to work out the details of the second comming, I'll be sure to ask them about that whole Waco thing...
#324 | Posted by tygersilver

My mother was an sociology professor at Monmouth university. She went to visit Mr Koresh to do research on utopian society. She was assasinated by the gov't because Janet Reno was pushing the gay agenda.

We have owned property on Hilton Head since the 80's. There are more direct daily flights to Atlanta from Newark. I have flown to Charleston before to visit my brother. In Hilton Head there are several families that fly the Confederate flag. One of our neighbors is the black man who used to coach the Knicks. I don't know his names. Isiah or Elijah. Something like that. All I know is that he raped employees of the Knicks.

You need to get help. The gay agenda has warped you brain. Come back to reality

There are no apartments at the Ferry. The ferry goes to two places in Jersey City. The Colgate Clock. The only building there is Golman Sachs and the other is Harborside which is offices and a mall. Looks like you got caught in a lie son. Liar ,Liar pants on fire

#109 | Posted by timbci at 2010-01-18 01:42 AM

No apartments at the ferry? How about a building right in front of it and another next door 300 feet south (my buddy's)? 15 second walk if you hoof it. Give it up, TIMMY. Pictures don't lie. Need a fire extinguisher?

She went to visit Mr Koresh to do research on utopian society.

LOL, that makes about as much sense as visiting the Soviet Union to study economics. It appears you inherited her glaring lack of common fucking sense.

No apartments at the ferry? How about a building right in front of it and another next door 300 feet south (my buddy's)? 15 second walk if you hoof it. Give it up, TIMMY. Pictures don't lie. Need a fire extinguisher?

Nope sorry. No there are no apartment in Harborside Financial Center

#349 | Posted by timbci at 2010-02-05 12:21 AM | Reply | Flag: DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO LOOK AT GOOGLE MAPS PICTURES. NEVER BEEN TO NEWPORT WATER FERRY EITHER, OBVIOUSLY

Multi-story apartment building ***DIRECTLY IN FRONT*** of Newport Water Ferry. Another 300' South.

Get glasses or another story, TIMMY

DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO LOOK AT GOOGLE MAPS PICTURES. NEVER BEEN TO NEWPORT WATER FERRY EITHER, OBVIOUSLY

I was there last night. I went to the gym and then bought hair dye at Duane Reade. I often change the color of my hair to change my appearance so liberal loons don't recognize me

TIMMY

The 35 story residential apartment building directly in front of the Newport Water Ferry dock is called the East Hampton. Right next door to the 35 story Atlantic, 300' South.

The entrance to the complex of high rise luxury apartments is directly across the street from the Newport gym you say you work out at every night after riding the water ferry there. Get glasses or a new story ....

As a mtter of fact in the morning people running from Harborside to the pier often miss the ferry because it is so far

Obviously you don't know where Harborside Financial Center is. HArborside is near the Portofino

...I often change the color of my hair to change my appearance so liberal loons don't recognize me

Posted by timbci at 2010-02-05 12:42 AM

Chameleons are Republicans?

Chameleons are Republicans?

#356 | Posted by CalifChris

Not necessarily. But, Republican Congressmen are chameleons - massive deficit creators who never met a trillion dollar unfunded program they didn't love who morph into deficit hawks when the WH changes occupants to the opposition party.

I often change the color of my hair to change my appearance so liberal loons don't recognize me

I recently was recognized at liberal loony bin fundraiser at Cipriani's in NYC by some fat bitch. I remember the first time I met her I accused her of killing children in Africa because she ate so much. I mean this bitch stuffs her face. She is a Chinese buffet's worse nigthmare

As a mtter of fact in the morning people running from Harborside to the pier often miss the ferry because it is so far

You said before the water ferry landed at the Harborside Financial Center, which isn't even on the water - and almost a mile from the Newport to Midtown ferry dock. Keep your stories straight, eh?

They obviously don't live in one of the two 35 story buildings on the water steps from the ferry - where H-1B workers who replaced 'laid off' Americans in The Financial District have taken over my buddy's building. As you've argued ad nauseum isn't the case - obviously never having been there yourself.

As a mtter of fact in the morning people running from Harborside to the pier often miss the ferry because it is so far

You said before the water ferry landed at the Harborside Financial Center, which isn't even on the water - and almost a mile from the Newport to Midtown ferry dock. Keep your stories straight, eh?

They obviously don't live in one of the two 35 story buildings on the water steps from the ferry - where H-1B workers who replaced 'laid off' Americans in The Financial District have taken over my buddy's building. As you've argued ad nauseum isn't the case - obviously never having been there yourself.

#359 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

the Harbourside Financial Center is most definitely on the water. It runs parallel to the waterline from Exchange Place to Newport. you obviously have never been there. I never said I lived in Newport. I live on third Street. H-1B workers would never be able to afford Newport. They would be living in a motel in Union City 5 to a room.

Uh, sure, TIMMY

The Newport Swim and Fitness Center is across the street from the Newport Towers ferry dock. Why would you take a water ferry that drops you off so far away when you could walk a couple blocks from one across the street? Hmmmmm?

And you hitchhike back to your pad on 3rd in Jersey City after working out in Newport, right? Your stories leave a lot of loose ends, that's for sure. LOL

Nope sorry son but the pier at the end of Harbourside Financial Center has been where the ferry docked since about 1998. I worked at 101 Hudson back then and took it everyday to work. Most people in Newport take the path but some that live near the Marabella, Portofino, Crystal Point, Avalon Cove, ect take the ferry. There is only one ferry in Newport.

And you hitchhike back to your pad on 3rd in Jersey City after working out in Newport, right? Your stories leave a lot of loose ends, that's for sure. LOL

Nope I take the Path to Grove Street.

Newport Swim & Fitness Center is the only 'gym' or 'fitness center' that shows up in a Google search in Newport, Jersey City, NJ. - right across the street from the Newport Towers water ferry. So, please explain again why you'd use a water ferry more than a mile away?

a mile away LOL. There is a NYSC in Harbourside
Fiancial Center so your wrong there.

I repeat the only ferry in Newport is at the end of the Harbourside Financial Center near the Portofino and Trump Tower

I repeat the only ferry in Newport is at the end of the Harbourside Financial Center near the Portofino and Trump Tower

TIMMY BCI

Repeat it all you want. You still won't be right. I've caught the water ferry at Newport Towers many times. You know, right across the street from your gym, Newport Swim and Fitness Center? The water ferry that goes to the 39th St. terminal?

Seems a smart guy like you would know that. I don't even live there and I do. I also know the tower my friend lives at across the street from your gym is full of H-1B workers. Strange you've never met any with your gym right across the street and all ...

BTW, it isn't "Harbourside". It's 'Harborside' (no 'u') - a mile away from the gym you said a couple days ago you work out and dye your hair at.