Wouldn't it be interesting if they found it to be drastically different than the final?

Sweet!

This one begins "We the people (including corporations), in order to ....

But on the back, if you squeeze lemon juice on it and use a hairdryer, you discover that there was a secret code that wanted term limits for all in Congress and three Houses, not Two.

The House, the Senate, and the Tavern.

This one begins "We the people (including corporations), in order to ....

#3 | Posted by danni

And ends with "in order to provide a complete and total Nanny State"...

BoOb will be pissed when he finds out that the document asserts that rights are inalienable and don't come from the government.

"
BoOb will be pissed when he finds out that the document asserts that rights are inalienable and don't come from the government.

#6 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-02 04:27 P

YEAH!

Tell that to the Hundreds of Thousands who came thru Elis Island.

The Boarded the Boat with No Rights --- and Disembarked with Inalienable Rights.

That Must have Been One Catchy Virus!

If our rights aren't inherent of our government --- does that mean you have the same rights when you go to Iran?

So, since our rights propagate from heaven, can I go and petition the Israeli government and Demand that My Right to Speak and be Heard by Israelis?

Or does god/jesus/captin america not like it to work like that?

If our rights aren't inherent of our government --- does that mean you have the same rights when you go to Iran?

Just because a government doesn't allow you to exercise your rights does not mean you don't have them, redneckshill.

RedNeckVille will be pissed when he finds out that the document asserts that rights are inalienable and don't come from the government.

#6 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-02-02 04:27 PM

Just because a government doesn't allow you to exercise your rights does not mean you don't have them, redneckshill.
#10 | Posted by goatman

Isn't that a distinction without a difference?

On another note

I wonder if a fresh reminder of all the revisions that essentially write out Christianity from the constitution will finally shut the religious wingdings up once and for all.

I know, it's doubtful! Nothing can Penetrate their Shield of Stupid!

I like how 2 of the 3 photos in the article are of the blonde 8 who found the thing, and not the rare document itself.

Isn't that a distinction without a difference?

Yes, but a distinction nonetheless

Nothing can Penetrate their Shield of Stupid!

#13 | Posted by Redneckville at 2010-02-02 04:52 PM | Flag: Dull

Yes, we know already

In WingDing World, All of those people who came to America "caught" the "rights" virus on the boat trip over.

Left European Port with No Rights
Arrived American Port with Inalienable Rights.

It's Fucking Magic, and had nothing to do with the government that afforded (or didn't) them these rights as individuals.

Yeah! I'll fuck you up, LoD!
-Coconservative

Yeah! Me too, dick!
-I_Am_Sam

"Yes, but a distinction nonetheless"

#15 | Posted by goatman

A distinction without a difference is a type of argument where one word or phrase is preferred to another, but results in no difference to the final outcome. It is particularly used when a word or phrase has connotations associated with it that one party to an argument prefers to avoid.

In WingDing World, All of those people who came to America "caught" the "rights" virus on the boat trip over.

I explained it to you in post 10. You were saying something about penetrating a shield of stupid? LOL

Does this one talk about the inalienable rights to health insurance, homosexual marriage, cable in county jails, minimum wages, abortion, social security or other entitlement programs or transfer of wealth from those who work to those who don't?

RedNeckVille sits in a fortress of stupid with his many personalities manning the watch towers. You will not penetrate it.

Live or Die

Where do you think rights come from?

da bOoB smells blood. I knew it was only a matter of time 'til he showed up since one of his four topics came up.

Go get 'em, bOoB!

And Boob's swimming in the moat.

"The Continuation of the Scheme"

What do you make of THAT Bob!? sounds conspiratorial to me!

Live or Die

I see you can't defend your point.

Batshit Bob is making noises again. Much like a broken Rick Astley record, his posts are a painfully repetitious pile of crap that nobody cares about except when they want to make a joke.

Zombiehunter

I see you think name calling makes you look smart. It doesn't. When you have nothng to say----say it quietly.

All rights come from the government. There is no other source. When Jefferson wrote those words, he wasn't speaking for God. Jefferson was not a Christian. God gives no rights to anyone.

I know you can't make sense, but I can replace your nonsense posts with posts that do make a point.

God gives no rights to anyone.

You're 100% correct, BuffaloBob.

God instead passed on to us only guidance as to how those rights should be given when Jesus said:

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

Any and all rights we have do not come from God. He leaves those up to man to decide -- whether for good or bad.

This was the kind of moment historians dream about," said Toler, 30, a lawyer and founding president of the Constitutional Sources Project.

You can say that again. Tremendous find.

#21 | POSTED BY ELCIDCE90

Somebody please get this guy a tissue.

All rights come from the government.

I agree. What is your point?

Scroll up.

CalifChris

Unfortunately too any decide the wrong way.

Rights that can't be exercised are not rights. To say you have the right of Free Speech, but get shot for speaking freely means---you don't have the right to free speech. There waa a price to pay---when you pay for something, it isn't free.

Nothing is free BoBbY.

I thought you would have realized that. Everything comes to you through death. Your food, there is cost, plants die, animals die, your skin cells die as you take the effort and strain to plant, cultivate and harvest the food, your act of eating the food causes other parts of your body to die. Nothing comes with some kind of "price". Price is only consequence in monetary terms.

What is free? That is like saying you can have nothing. It is impossible (and possible). To have nothing is to have something, for nothing in itself is something. To have not is to have and to have is to have not.

ExpsRedemption

You are correct in your statements, but in America there is the concept of Free Speech, which means you can say what you like, within limits, and the government will not punish you. As stated, nothing is free, but that's what it is called in America. Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Peaceful Assembly, Freedom of the Press---none of those things are free--there was and is a price to pay---but they retain the term Free. I doubt you would be successful in getting the nation to discard the name or the concept of Free whan applied to these concepts.

I know freedom don't come free because toby keith told me it doesn't and he was a brilliant man and the dixie chicks were dumb bitches and there's not commas in this post its just one long run on sentence yes i made you read that

Live or Die

I see you can't defend your point.

#27 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-02-02 08:49 PM | Flag: Senile Old Coot

This is a great find, no doubt about it.
I'm looking forward to studying the differences, and the reasons for them.

Finally! A copy the supreme dorks have not raped yet.

"Finally! A copy the supreme dorks have not raped yet"

Isn't that a distinction without a difference?
Yes, but a distinction nonetheless
#15 | Posted by goatman at 2010-02-02 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

I disagree - there is a distinction when saying that rights are inalienable. The distinction comes in the moral ground that the person arguing for rights stands on. If all rights come from the government, then isn't it immoral to rebel against that government when in disallows those rights? (after all, they haven't granted you the right to rebel). However, if rights are inalienable and come from some other source (God, the "Creator", some other source of moral good, etc.) then it doesn't matter what a government says about your rights. There is a source greater than the government that grants you the morality to have those rights.

For example, do the people in Iran have free speech? No, so some might say they don't have that inalienable right. However, the distinction comes when you ask 'SHOULD the people of Iran have free speech?' If they should have that right (granted by whom or what?) it is inalienable, even if they are currently unable to practice that right. In essence those people practicing their rights in opposition to the government hold the moral high ground because there is a higher source or power that grants them that high ground.

That's part of the genius if the Declaration of Independence. The rights enumerated by Jefferson in that document are inalienable, DESPITE what the British government said. The British government attempted to infringe on these rights (read: took these rights away) but that did not make those rights any less valid. When the Brits attempted to limit speech and prevent "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", the coloniests - and especially Jefferson in the DoI - told King George to get lost because essentially those rights were not his to grant. They were (and are) inalienable and should not be limited by any government.

Remember that it is not a government's job to ALLOW or give permission for anything - governments exist to limit us; documents like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights exist to make sure the government isn't overly zealous in their limiting abilities.

Bob, I see where you are coming from on the practical side. However, philosophically, rights are inalienable.

"However, philosophically, rights are inalienable."

Yup, that's practical.

I wonder, how do these Inalienable rights transfer to a corporation on American soil?

In other words --- do you have these same Inalienable rights when you walk into any American business?

Rights only exist when there is a mechanism in place to protect and enforce them, and in the case above, are deniable (alienable) even on american soil.

I don't see what the big whoop is; "it's just another Goddamn piece of paper"!!!

I think this is the one that said "White Males Only" and "Corporations are People Too."

Everybody seems to be talking about where our Rights come from.

Just a reminder, this document doesn't spell out our rights.

The Bill of Rights were not a part of the Constitution until 1791, and were not Incorporated until 1868 when the 14th Amendment was ratified.

Further, it should be pointed out, that the Bill of Rights does not list our rights, it lists restrictions on the Government.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 29 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ Hillsdale College's Allan P. Kirby, Jr. Center for Constitutional Studies and Citizenship, based in Washington, D.C., will host "Reviving The Constitution," a Constitution Town Hall, in Chantilly, Virginia, from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. EST on January 30, 2010. The event will also be available online.

This one begins "We the people (including corporations), in order to ....

#3 | Posted by danni

I know you don't have a copy of the constitution so I have provided you a copy of the first amendment. As you can see, It doesn't restrict free speech to individuals. I assume you can read.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

"Reviving the Constitution" will be available for viewing after January 30th, 2010 in two ways:

1. You may access a free, archived version of the web stream, beginning February 1, 2010. To access the recording on or after that date, first register your name, e-mail address, and zipcode at the event site, www.constitutiontownhall.com. When you are ready to view the recording, visit the event site again, and log in using your registered e-mail address. The archived recording will then be available for your viewing.

2. DVDs of the town hall will be made available for purchase online after the event. To be notified by e-mail when these DVDs are made available, please register your name and e-mail address at www.constitutiontownhall.com.

damn i cant wait until november, already a lame duck pres. but in nov. it will be official

Further, it should be pointed out, that the Bill of Rights does not list our rights, it lists restrictions on the Government.

#48 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2010-02-03 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Very humorous, but untrue. Until the Bill of Rights, Americans did not have those rights. Where do you think rights come from? The people? Again, very humorous--ask any Chinese national.

Very humorous, but untrue. Until the Bill of Rights, Americans did not have those rights. Where do you think rights come from? The people? Again, very humorous--ask any Chinese national.

#53 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-02-03 05:15 PM

Even the Chinese can read. So why don't you show me where our rights are listed?

And by the way... Amendment #2 protects all the others.

The Bill of Rights limits the powers of government in key areas where they would intrude on individual rights. Each one protects the previous one.

For example- The right to bear arms guarantees they cannot take the first away. The 4th protects the 2nd by keeping them from taking your guns. It keeps building until the 10th which says flatly "Anything the Constitution doesn't expressly say you can do, you can't do."

Even the Chinese can read. So why don't you show me where our rights are listed?

And by the way... Amendment #2 protects all the others.

#54 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2010-02-03 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag

Our rights are listed in the Bill of Rights, and in the legal statutes of the States.

And by the way...Amendment #2 is part of the government document that gives us our rights.

And by the way...you neglected to say where our rights come from.

#55 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-03 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

All rights come from the government. The only limits on the government are placed there by the government. The government can and does take away rights from people all the time. If you have a right, it is only because the government allows you to exercise it.

If the government says you are a murderer, and will be hanged...guess what. That's how innocent people end up on death row and being executed.

If the government declares martial law, they make it perfectly clear as to where your rights come from.

If you overthrow the government, all rights will come from the new government. Hasn't anyone ever read history---at all?

If you overthrow the government, all rights will come from the new government. Hasn't anyone ever read history---at all?

I don't have time. Besides I enjoy reading conspiracy theory books and other books about presidents who rape orphans.

STFU you moron.

I hope thse patriots hide that copy of the Constitution otherwise Obama and the libs will burn it along with a few Betsy Ross flags.

Our rights are listed in the Bill of Rights, and in the legal statutes of the States.

And by the way...Amendment #2 is part of the government document that gives us our rights.

And by the way...you neglected to say where our rights come from.

#56 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Who created the government? How does article 1 start?

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Doesn't that say powers that are garnted by the constitution? (herin granted) Then there is amendment X. You know that dumb one.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

It doesn't say anywhere that the government is all powerfull and that it grants certain rights to the people.

I don't have time. Besides I enjoy reading conspiracy theory books and other books about presidents who rape orphans.

STFU you moron.

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2010-02-03 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

I doubt you have read any of the books. There is more evidence against HW Bush being a pedophile than there ever was against Clinton and his blow job. I bet you have no problem believing that--right?

Tell me how you know beyond any doubt that HW Bush isn't a pedophile----and why do you keep bringing it up?

Who created the government? How does article 1 start?

The people didn't create the government---the government created the government. Jefferson wrote--We the people---do you think he was taking dictation from a large mob outside his house?

Jefferson was the government---speaking for all the other members of the government---deciding what rights to give the people.

#60 | Posted by Sniper at 2010-02-03 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Even the Chinese can read. So why don't you show me where our rights are listed?

And by the way... Amendment #2 protects all the others.

#54 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2010-02-03 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag

Our rights are listed in the Bill of Rights, and in the legal statutes of the States.

And by the way...Amendment #2 is part of the government document that gives us our rights.

And by the way...you neglected to say where our rights come from.

Amazing how many, on both the left and the right, needs some serious lessons in social studies and history. Our "rights" as they were spoken of by the founders were endowed to us from our creator. (so much for being a non-Christian nation). The Bill of Rights merely reiterated some to ensure an understanding of the more fundamental rights, created under pressure from the anti-federalists. Even then there was fear that enumerating any of them would allow fuckups to believe that only those were "given" to citizens by the government. The 10th was created in an attempt to prevent this. The Constitution does not "give" anything to the citizens of the country. The Government does not "give" anything to the citizens of the country. The Constitution is a document laying out the formation and function of the government, and more importantly, limiting the new government from imposing upon the citizens. Get a grip, people, the government doesn't give you anything, you allow IT to exist.

Get a grip, people, the government doesn't give you anything, you allow IT to exist.

#63 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-03 06:31 PM | Reply

And for a free worthless degree at a state college and some extended unemployment benefits, along with a helping of food stamps aka link card, and some subsidized housing, and some free medical care, along with a helping of cash for clunkers, and 10 percent down payment by the government for your first home it seems alot of dim bulbs would allow it to exist until it eats us all.

Fortunately many people are waking up and in November the socialists can be removed from both parties.....

No politician will have a lock on their seat this time around regardless of the flavor, r or d.

#63 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Thank you, it's amazing how individuals try to twist the constitution and bill of rights to fit their own wants/philosophies/prejudices. You've supplied a nice and simple summary:

1--Unalienable (human, natural) rights are entitlements that come from a creator.

2--Government or any other earhly power do not
have the right to interfere with those rights.

3--If government doesn't protect those rights, citizens have the right to alter/throw off that government.

Our "rights" as they were spoken of by the founders were endowed to us from our creator. (so much for being a non-Christian nation).

That is a HUGE leap from "creator" to "Christian nation."

My creator is my parents. What they are saying is that we are born with rights, not that they come from G-d, or government, or anywhere.

That is a HUGE leap from "creator" to "Christian nation."

Religious fanatics are used to making those kinds of leaps.

Kanrei, please re-read the comment. The founders were not speaking of parents. When they wrote "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights," in the Declaration, they were pretty clear in their meaning. These weren't just some random words, but a philosophical belief deeply ingrained in the founders. It's easy to try, more than 200 years later, to separate God from the foundations of American, but it's also very disingenuous. I'm as atheist as any of the pin-head moronic God-haters on this site, but facts are facts and history is history. How it relates in today's world is up to the individual. But the bottom line is that it is not the government that provides our rights, we already have them. We created the government in order for those rights to be protected.

#63 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM
"Our "rights" as they were spoken of by the founders were endowed to us from our creator. (so much for being a non-Christian nation)"

Okay, not there's much point in saying this, but, "They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
Further, neither Christianity nor the "creator" is specified, merely named as a source of those rights. (So much for being a Christian nation.)
The Declaration, you'll recall, was authored primarily by Thomas Jefferson, and I'm pretty sure most of the Christians on the DR would NOT approve of his views of Christianity.

I have no problem whatsoever with Christianity as a faith, nor with Christians as followers of that faith. Christians comprise the vast majority of our nation, and are responsible for the vast majority of the many great things we've accomplished.

That doesn't make this a Christian nation, however, and it doesn't mean Christian opinion is more important, or that Christian votes are more valuable, or that Christian ideals are more important for our government.

On the other hand, it does not in any way de-value Christianity, as either a faith or as a tradition, or as a part of our culture.
But it's not the ONLY representation of America.

Far too often, Christians act as though they're in Nero's arenas. And they're not. Face it, you've got it pretty good compared to your early forebears.

Is everything the way YOU want it?
The way YOU think it should be?
No, but then, join the club, and welcome to America.

There is more evidence against HW Bush being a pedophile than there ever was against Clinton and his blow job.
Posted by Buffalo_Bob

The same evidence you've sited in the past regarding Bigfoot, Hogzilla, the Hodag, Johhny Quest's Dad doing Rex, Helen Keller playing dumb, the Twin Tower attacks and the Coal Burning Plant on the Moon, no doubt.

The idea that the Founding Fathers did not write what they meant is so comical. If they meant G-d, they would have written G-d. They wrote "Creator" for a reason- not all believe life came from G-d.

It's easy to try, more than 200 years later, to separate God from the foundations of American, but it's also very disingenuous

The Founders were Diets, not Christian, Jew, or any other faith short of Agnosticism. They believed we were born with basic human rights, not that G-d chose for us to treat one another a certain way.

There are no rights in the Bible and no G-d in the Constitution. Pretty clear to me.

Diets = deists

"It's easy to try, more than 200 years later, to separate God from the foundations of American, but it's also very disingenuous"

Fail American history much?

Try the deist diet.
No bullshit, no fillers, no imaginary friends.

Jefferson wrote, "We hold these truths to be sacred."
Franklin scratched though "sacred" and wrote "self-evident."

Benjamin Franklin: An American Life
http://www.amazon.com/ Benjamin-Franklin-American- Walter-Isaacson/dp/074325807X/ ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265244443&sr=1-1

Go Ben!

Ben also wrote on climatology.

1784 Benjamin Franklin, "Meteorological Imaginations and Conjectures (Paper Read 1784)." Memoirs of the Literary and Philosophical Society of Manchester 2nd ed., 1789: 373-77. REPRINTED Weatherwise 35, 262 (1982).

I've read several books on the Constitutional Convention. This one was by far the best. Highly recommended. It not only got into the technical details of the document, but it also related a lot of the personal conflicts and allies between some of the framers, which inevitably shaped its course and thus the course of the USA.

Fools and re-writing history for the 21th Century, by Zat the Rat. We're speaking of beliefs, not what was specifically written into any particular document. And no, I did not fail history, and in fact have an undergrad degree in History. But let's not let good factual history get in the way of one's 21st Century beliefs. Deists or otherwise, the founders were believers in a Christian God, and put such beliefs into their writings and their governing theories. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain to such a limited mind the differing Protestant factions in this country during the 17th and 18th C's. But it's high time to accept the fact that this nation was indeed founded on Christian principles, regardless of whether we are a "Christian nation" or not. The acceptance of factual history in no way demeans what we believe and how we act today. There is no need to be afraid of religion or history, and no reason to attack the basic facts of American history just because it doesn't fit with your own personal views and values. If you actually have any values.

Goatman, I highly recommend reading of George Mason, so very often forgotten in the annals of US History. He was instrumental in both the US Constitution and Virginia's statehood and constitution.

However, philosophically, rights are inalienable.

The American Government is of the People (supposedly). So, if rights come from the Government then they come from the People. People had rights before they had governments but they usually just had to take them though. I think it was called the Golden Rule.

He who hath the Gold maketh the Rules.

Amazing how many, on both the left and the right, needs some serious lessons in social studies and history. Our "rights" as they were spoken of by the founders were endowed to us from our creator.

How about showing where the Creator endows us with those rights?

(so much for being a non-Christian nation).

Jefferson was not a Christian

Get a grip, people, the government doesn't give you anything, you allow IT to exist.

You are proven mistaken in that only nations who have given their citizens similar rights have those rights. All rights come from the government in control.

#63 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-03 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

A Magnificent Find. This country's Constitution is a Magnificent Document crafted by Magnificent Men.

I thank God for this Country founded in freedom and the rule of law. And I thank God that I was fortunate to be borne in freedom in this wonderful land.

May this generation have the wisdom and energy to preserve the freedoms granted to us by our founders through the Constitution for future generations.

You are proven mistaken in that only nations who have given their citizens similar rights have those rights. All rights come from the government in control.

#63 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-03 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#80 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness come from our "creator"---I might add that certain seculars also wrote about the "unalienable natural (human) rights" of individuals. The bill of rights was essentially a document that protected the rights of citizens---government doesn't control the "unalienable natural rights" of man but it does control "legal" rights which is a different matter---but, ultimately, in our constitutional system, the citizenry is supposedly the government (although you wouldn't know since the perversion of the last 100 years.

The beauty of our Constitution is that it does not give the government -- men and women in power, rulers -- control over our rights as free men and women.

It controls "government" from the excesses of tyranny over the individual who is, after all, the smallest of all powerless minorities.

Tell me how you know beyond any doubt that HW Bush isn't a pedophile----and why do you keep bringing it up?

I don't. And I don't know beyond any doubt that you aren't either.

I love to beat on you boob.

It's therapy......

Eberly

If you think lying is beating on me--so be it. You brought up HW Bush's pedophilia--again. You admit you don't know beyond any doubt that he is a pedophile. Seems to me, you got beat up, and are too dim to even realize it. If thriving on lies boosts your ego, go for it---but others can read also.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness come from our "creator"

You are mistaken. No creator ever gave such rights---ever. Have you read the Bible--the Koran--the Torah? No rights given there--which creator are you referring to, and please show where these rights are given.

I might add that certain seculars also wrote about the "unalienable natural (human) rights" of individuals.

I guess you've never read about slavery---seems the slave's rights were alienated very effectively daily---until the government gave them rights.

#82 | Posted by matsop at 2010-02-03 10:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

As long as people believe that some foreign entity called government gives them their rights, they will allow that same entity to take those rights away. After all, they only have those rights at the will of the government, not the will of the people. You libbies certainly deserve the inexperienced, socialist fuckup that you put into office.

You libbies certainly deserve the inexperienced, socialist fuckup that you put into office.

The clowns that put the drunken, verbally-crippled bankruptcy machine in the White House should have their voting privileges stripped.

SpokaneJim

Government can take away those rights. This has been proven time and again through history. Again, you have failed to point to any other credible source.

I heard it was just the carbon paper copy.

Original Draft: "We hold these truths to be self evident. Boobies are good! Beer is our friend!"

They shoulda never cut them last two sentences.

Be Well.

Like anyone really knows what it says (or means) anyway. It's become nothing more than a tool fucking cliche for parties and candidates to quote when convenient. The constitution has been dead for a hundred years....

Like anyone really knows what it says (or means) anyway. It's become nothing more than a tool fucking cliche for parties and candidates to quote when convenient. The constitution has been dead for a hundred years....

#92 | Posted by jsprague

Candidates and representatives pledge to uphold it and most of them probably don't have a clue what it says.

"Government can take away those rights."

#89 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

The reverse is also true.

SpokaneJim

Government can take away those rights. This has been proven time and again through history. Again, you have failed to point to any other credible source.

#89 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-02-04 12:18 AM

This is somewhat true. For example, there was this King in England, who was stripping the rights away from his subjects in a distant colony to the west.

Well those subjects, didn't like having their rights taken away, and they decided to fight the King's army and navy.

After they won their freedom, they created a system of government, and a constitution that protected their freedoms.

After they won their freedom, they created a system of government, and a constitution that protected their freedoms.

And then those same people shit on it.

Government can take away those rights. This has been proven time and again through history. Again, you have failed to point to any other credible source.

#89 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-02-04 12:18 AM

The difference here is that if our rights are taken away, it is because we allowed the government to do so, not because the government is more powerful than the people. If we don't insist the government exist for our benefit, and allow ourselves to exist for the government's benefit, we are not fit to have those rights. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Those words are just as apropos to giving up other rights as well. Regardless of whether one believes this nation was founded on Christian principles, it was founded by the people, and the people have a duty and a responsibility to ensure that the government continues to function at the will of the people. The historical difference is that we choose our government leaders, and if they don't do as we wish, we may choose others. Elections in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts are a few recent examples.

"Has anyone noticed how the Same Group that insists the Bible be re-written (www.christianforums.com) to represent a new landscape are the same people who Demand the Constitution shouldn't.
Apparently Editing and Revising the "unerring word of God" is OK while updating and updating a document is not.
You people sure are fucked up in the head."

Redneck, that was an amazing example of scattershot innuendo. I merely commented on the Constitution being screwed with by the supreme dorks and somehow your sick mind managed to link me to a group I never heard of let alone belong to that espouses a view of scripture I don't share. Get a life!

I am sure it was founded when the plumbers were pulling chicken bones out of the white house sewer lines...

Bob is right. Rights do come from the govt because they have the power to take them away.

This country is different from Iran, etc., in that our Constitution makes WE, THE PEOPLE, the sovereign.

That is, we grant the government its rights, not the other way around. If only we would follow our Constitution, our individual rights would be secure and our would-be rulers in Washington would be held to account and be under Our control.

Those who would abandon our Constitution would deny us our individual rights and our sovereign status over those we elect to office and make up our government.

ALSO found with the US Constitution document was a certified copy of Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate! WOW! What a Bonus Day for America!!!

If our rights aren't inherent of our government --- does that mean you have the same rights when you go to Iran?
Just because a government doesn't allow you to exercise your rights does not mean you don't have them, redneckshill.

#10 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Tell that to Chavez if you go to Venezuela act like a fool. I am sure you can exercise your inalienable rights in prison picking up the soap.

Rights are a man made creation given to you by other men that can also take them away. Nature has no such rights.. You right to exist in nature rests solely upon your ability to survive. Morality, good and evil are solely human societal constructs and have no relevance in the universe and nature in general.

put that in constitutional pipe and smoke it..

Hence, Legio, we need to keep our guns as the founders knew and so gave us the Second Amendment: To ultimately keep thugs from taking our freedoms from us, if needed.

And, no, I am not advocating armed revolution. But keep your powder dry.

#77 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM
"But it's high time to accept the fact that this nation was indeed founded on Christian principles"

Christian principles...

Okay, I'll bite...

NAME THEM, PLEASE.
Make a list here of the "Christian principles" upon which this nation was founded.

#77 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM

Treaty of Tripoli, biatch.

Hence, Legio, we need to keep our guns as the founders knew and so gave us the Second Amendment: To ultimately keep thugs from taking our freedoms from us, if needed.
And, no, I am not advocating armed revolution. But keep your powder dry.

#105 | POSTED BY KISSNTELL

I am pro gun, but don't even think for a second if the government wanted to suppress society.. it couldn't.

#101 | Posted by Kissntell at 2010-02-04 03:44 PM

Sorry but if the Govt wants to take away your life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness it can at any time it wants. They can lock you up with a bullshit charge or just make you disappear to a foreign prison if it suits them. They can shoot you and say you drew first. Anything can and will happen if the govt decides it is in the interest of national security.

Fools and re-writing history for the 21th Century, by Zat the Rat. We're speaking of beliefs, not what was specifically written into any particular document. And no, I did not fail history, and in fact have an undergrad degree in History. But let's not let good factual history get in the way of one's 21st Century beliefs. Deists or otherwise, the founders were believers in a Christian God, and put such beliefs into their writings and their governing theories. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain to such a limited mind the differing Protestant factions in this country during the 17th and 18th C's. But it's high time to accept the fact that this nation was indeed founded on Christian principles, regardless of whether we are a "Christian nation" or not. The acceptance of factual history in no way demeans what we believe and how we act today. There is no need to be afraid of religion or history, and no reason to attack the basic facts of American history just because it doesn't fit with your own personal views and values. If you actually have any values.

#77 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM

Article 11 of Zat's posting regarding the Treaty of Tripoli clearly dispels any notion we are a CHRISTIAN nation..

You asshole disgust me with your lies and exclusionary horseshit and revisionist history.

So Legio, I suppose -- since you are so convinced the individual has no power against this government as it is now constituted -- you Must be for a smaller, less intrusive and less powerful government, such as, the one our founders tried to secure for us with our Magnificent U.S. Constitution, but which we have allowed to slip away through our ignorance and laziness as free borne citizens.