Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, February 02, 2010

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Vacation isn't really taking a break from work, it's just kicking the can down the road.

So, Jim Litten, the US atty in New Orleans, has recused himself from the O'Keefe case. This means Eric Holder can name anyone to come down, investigate and prosecute as Holder sees fit. Not going to be an easy ride for Mr. O'Keefe, it appears.

Good hang that mother high!

Is Holder going to have time to deal with this? Seems he has his hands full with that little matter in NYC.

-Not going to be an easy ride for Mr. O'Keefe

Why should it be?

First he dresses as a pimp to entrap low-level Acorn workers, then he pretends he's Gordon Liddy in a US Sen's office.

Why should anyone take it easy on him?

O'Keefe made a huge mistake--but no wiretapping--bad judgment.

All the stories from the media would be considered malpractice if committed against a liberal.

If Holder can't prosecute Black Panthers--how in the hell can he do this case??

#4 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-02-02 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

The point is Letten was a republican appointee who was endorsed by Landrieu and is now recusing himself from the case. The assumption was he might go a little easier on these guys, but now that Holder can send someone else in it is likely the new prosecutor will be someone who won't go easy on the guy who "did in ACORN."

Corky--

Hundreds of journalists have dressed up in the past to be a story of importance.

Admiral Mullen came out in favor of ending don't ask/ don't tell. Interesting. About time the nation gave our gay/lesbian warriors a fair shake.

Holder can send someone else in it is likely the new prosecutor will be someone who won't go easy on the guy who "did in ACORN."

#7 | Posted by taxman

And if that is the case then Holder needs to resign --right now.

ACORN is crooked.

Later gaters...

He's not a journalist, he's a rightwing nutter activist who preyed on low income workers, persuading a few of them to "help" him.... the one's who didn't through him out of their buildings first.

Now he's decided to play with Fed law, and I hope he gets burnt.

he's a rightwing nutter activist

According to shark tank he was black ops CIA.

Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams is set to undergo heart surgery this week in the United States.

CBC News confirmed Monday that Williams, 60, left the province earlier in the day and will have surgery later in the week.

The U.S. is getting rid of the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Currently, they're polling other nations for possible replacement taglines.

Mexico: "That's what you're worried about? When narcos are rolling human heads into bars? Pal, as long as you can shoot straight, you're fine by me."

England: "Whatever drives the Pope nuts is peachy."

France: "Pfft (while puffing out cheeks)."

Iceland: "As long as you stop following me into the sauna."

Iran: "We don't even have a word for what you're talking about. So it's impossible."

If they are going to prosecute O'Keffe, fine, what about ACORN? Let's have even-handed justice, or else this turns into a banana republic.

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration is proposing a $200 million fund to help pay for security costs in cities hosting the trials of accused terrorists such as Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

"I don't think any time I broke the law. When I spent the night in jail I was trying to figure out what I possibly did wrong."
-- James O'Keefe, on posing as a telephone repairman to gain access to Sen. Mary Landrieu's office

Breibart is collecting vaseline for the patriots.

Sniper, good thing we still have the system we have. Under Obamacare this guy would have no place to go.

"I don't think any time I broke the law."

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Folks with no credentials, a tool belt, and hardhats are always welcome to jack with the phone systems in federal buildings.

The Obama administration is proposing a $200 million fund to help pay for security costs in cities hosting the trials of accused terrorists such as Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
Posted by Sniper

Can this dick do anything that doesn't involve writing a check?

Hundreds of journalists have dressed up in the past to be a story of importance.


So you think a "story of importance" is to see if the phones were working?

Hard hitting journalism I tell you.

After the smoke clears look for a full time gig at Fauxnews for him. Perfect place for a right wing tool willing to take on "them hard stories."

Fauxnews?

Is that the one that is kicking MSNBC and CNN in the ratings? Is that the one that people (even Dems) trust more? That Fauxnews?

Hundreds of journalists have dressed up in the past to be a story of importance.

Actually Jeff Gannon undressed to be a story of importance.

I'm watching District 9 on Comcast ON Demand. Only about 20 minutes in. Very different kind of movie.

"Is that the one that is kicking MSNBC and CNN in the ratings?"

And losing badly to the likes of Katie Couric?

You have Comcrap? I am sorry to hear that. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Briwo, I thought it was excellent. That Peter Jackson is an excellent film maker. Much more a drama than a scifi flick. The fact that the story is about aliens is almost beside the point.

what about ACORN?

Acorn killed Kennedy.

Acorn killed Kennedy.

#29 | Posted by 726

Now, it was alcohol that killed Uncle Ted.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Folks with no credentials, a tool belt, and hardhats are always welcome to jack with the phone systems in federal buildings.

#20 | Posted by Danforth

What did they do to the phones? I think someone jacked with your head.

Imagine if the kids from South Park were in Dallas in 1963. The president gets shot and they say, "Oh my god, they Kennedy, you bastards!"

Is that the one that is kicking MSNBC and CNN in the ratings?

Just proving eveyone loves good fiction.

Uncle Ted.

Wrong Kennedy.

"Just proving eveyone loves good fiction."

Nonsense!

"What did they do to the phones? I think someone jacked with your head."

Good God, man, every time I believe you cannot possibly be any dumber, you prove me wrong.

Read the news reports. Pay particular attention to the guy they arrested off-site in possession of listening devices.

Is Holder going to have time to deal with this? Seems he has his hands full with that little matter in NYC.

#4 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-02-02 01:16 PM

What's going on in NYC with Holder?

What did they do to the phones? I think someone jacked with your head.


WHy dress up like telephone repair workers?

Briwo, I thought it was excellent. That Peter Jackson is an excellent film maker. Much more a drama than a scifi flick. The fact that the story is about aliens is almost beside the point.

#28 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-02 01:37 PM

Drama? I must've missed it while I was enjoying a story of cool weapons, exploding heads, and a gravity gun that can throw pigs at people.

Wasn't District 9 originally supposed to be a Halo movie or something?

"WHy dress up like telephone repair workers?"

To get laid?

www.youtube.com

Telephone man - Meri Wilson
www.youtube.com

You really can't make this up. An article earlier today from Reuters:

"Advisory: Backdoor taxes to hit middle class
Reuters"

Now you see this:

"The story Backdoor taxes to hit middle class has been withdrawn. A replacement story will run later in the week."

news.yahoo.com

Apparently it wasn't "White House Approved".

Telephone man - Meri Wilson
www.youtube.com

"Apparently it wasn't "White House Approved"."

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

Or, more likely, someone alerted the author these "back-door taxes" were all proposed, written, passed, and signed into law by Republicans.

More stuff you can't make up:

"Palin Wants Rahm Fired"

"In a Facebook post, Sarah Palin calls on President Obama to fire Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel for reportedly describing the strategy of Senate liberals as "fucking retarded."
politicalwire.com

Of course, maybe it got withdrawn due to bullshit overload:

"The Feb 1 story headlined "Backdoor taxes to hit middle class" is wrong and has been withdrawn. The story said lower-income families will pay more under tax provisions scheduled to expire Dec 31. The Obama administration's budget calls for the extension of those tax provisions"

"In a Facebook post, Sarah Palin calls on President Obama to fire Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel for reportedly describing the strategy of Senate liberals as "fucking retarded."

It figures Liberals would be so incensitive to people who have mental disabilities. It was Al Gore who refered to Conservatives as the extra chromosome right wing.

Apparently the White House forgot to tell Reuters to remove the article from Canada:

"Backdoor taxes to hit middle class"

ca.news.yahoo.com

"Apparently the White House forgot to tell Reuters to remove the article from Canada"

Apparently the fact the author proffered incorrect information doesn't seem to register with KaBooM.

"Incorrect information" = information that makes Obama and the Dems look bad. We certainly can't have that, can we? No sir!

Fucking Verizon sucks.

""Incorrect information" = information that makes Obama and the Dems look bad. "

No, incorrect information is stuff that is UNTRUE.

Get it now?

Read post #46 as often as it takes until you understand.

You have Comcrap? I am sorry to hear that. Wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

#27 | Posted by member2586 at 2010-02-02 01:36 PM

I have NEVER had a problem with Comcast, ever.

Dishes suck ass, Especially up here with the wild weather and 70' Doug Firs in the way.

I get great digital HD, all movies and channels you could want. The DVR works awesome as well.

IN the back page on teh Ayn Radn page I just made the point that insider trading rules are silly.

You are probably the first person I know of that is happy with Comcrap. Good for you.

As soon as it was available in my area I switched U-Verse, couldn't be happier.

We don't have U-Verse here yet.

Maybe Comcast was different in your area. We have cable/ON demand/DVR and highspeed broadband all from Comcast, and never had a problem.

Things that make you go hmmmmm:

"Premier Danny Williams of Newfoundland and Labrador is undergoing heart surgery in the United States later this week because the treatment he is seeking was not available in his home province, his deputy premier said Tuesday.

Williams, 60, decided to go to the U.S. for surgery after weeks of consultation with his doctors, Kathy Dunderdale said.

"Having the surgery done in the province was never an option," Dunderdale said."

www.thestar.com

#57

These people are so stupid they don't even reserve the best health care for themselves, which is what will end up happening here. Politicians will ge the best, while the masses get the crappy version of Obamacare.

More donations needed:

"The city of Springfield still hasn't been fully repaid for costs associated with hosting then- U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign stop in the fall of 2008.
Obama's presidential campaign was sent a bill for $68,139, and still owes the city $55,457, according to Ernie Slottag, the city's spokesman."

"The city has been trying unsuccessfully to collect payment"

Attempts to get a comment for this story from the Obama campaign were unsuccessful. The White House referred comments to the Democratic National Committee. A spokesman at the DNC didn't respond to questions sent via e-mail.

"Let's turn them over to a collection agency,"

www.sj-r.com

"Joe Biden is leading a Task Force to study what's on the mind of middle class Americans"
"It would be funny if it were not so sad that those in Washington need a special commission to figure out what America thinks."
biggovernment.com

They really are detached from reality.

Population of Newfoundland and Labrador: 508,270 (2008). Just an interesting fact that some might suspect would effect the availability of certain types of medical services.

#61
Good Point.

Ref the tax article: The fact is that the majority of Federal Income Tax payers will be surrendering more in taxes once the Bush tax cuts expire this year (example - the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28%; and so on). Also watch the tax rate on dividends, capital gains and the AMT: That part of the article is correct.

Seems those tax cuts were not just for the wealthy.

"Seems those tax cuts were not just for the wealthy."

Nah...only about 85 percent of them.

Fucking Verizon sucks.

#51 | Posted by wisgod

Only you would know that.

Population of Newfoundland and Labrador: 508,270 (2008). Just an interesting fact that some might suspect would effect the availability of certain types of medical services.

#61 | Posted by danni

I guess they arn't available in any part of Canada where its free. He has to come to the USA and pay for it. WTF over.

hag, you wouldn't know a good point if it bit your left tit.

It was Al Gore who refered to Conservatives as the extra chromosome right wing.
#47 | Posted by member2586

Gore said, in 1994, that Oliver North (who was then running against Chuck Robb and getting slammed by Nancy Reagan) "is banking on the fact that he can raise enough money from the extreme right wingthe extra-chromosome right wingto come in and buy enough advertising to just overwhelm the truth with blatant falsehoods [about Robb]." He later aplogized.

Back in 1987, VP George Bush also had to apologize for using "the extra-chromosome set" term when referring to conservatives.

Lee Atwater used the "extra-chromosome" phrase as well. As did RNC chair Bond, saying John McCain embraced "Ross Perot's outsider message without Perot's extra chromosomes."

(See: www.dailyhowler.com)

I am sure that large cities in Canada have more population and better medical facilities. Cities like Tororto, Vancouver are always listed among the best places to live on Earth. Don't they have hopsitals and surgeons? You would think, if they are the nicest places to live on Earth.

Doc, LIberals beat everyone up with political correctness, ending people's careers in many cases, and yet they say all kinds of crazy stuff with little or no consequence.

hag, you wouldn't know a good point if it bit your left tit.

#67 | Posted by Sniper

Since it comes from Sniper I guess it has to be true.

FTR not a fan of nip play.

Political correctness is hardly a Liberal monopoly. Look at all the ravings from the looney Right about "socialism" and "bolshevism." Look at some of the either crazy or craftily calculating statements by GOPers that establish a standard for political correctness which they and they alone can meet, imposing on those who fail to meet that standard arrantly nonesensical labels. I don't see them gettin a trip to the woodshed courtesy of their "leaders."

"Doc, LIberals beat everyone up with political correctness, ending people's careers in many cases, and yet they say all kinds of crazy stuff with little or no consequence."

OH and righties don't try to as they did with Sen. REid's comments which, in reality, weren't even racist but that didn't stop the right wingers from pretending. The faux outrage was hilarious.

my vote didn't register on the cage assault thread.

Callinf people socialist is not a matter of political correctness, it's labeling. Liberals call Conservatives fascits.

As far as Reid, that proves the point, that Dems suffer little for their crazy statemetns.

Holy shit. I almost forgot about this poofter...

The following is my "Do Not Reply To List" , earned for vile, nasty personal attacks instead of reasoned argument:
101Chairborne, Joe, Niceville

Posted by Scarey_e at 2006-07-14 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag

Danni: OH and righties don't try to as they did with Sen. REid's comments which, in reality, weren't even racist but that didn't stop the right wingers from pretending. The faux outrage was hilarious.

And this is what happened:

A new book reveals that in the run-up to the 2008 election, Senate majority leader Harry Reid said Obama had a chance of winning because he was both "light-skinned" and didn't speak with a "negro dialect."

Reid has apologized

Why the apology by Reid if he didn't say anything racist?

Only you would know that.

#65 | Posted by Sniper

Yeah. I'm their only customer Douche Nozzle.

I'm here.

Hurray for me!

Read the news reports. Pay particular attention to the guy they arrested off-site in possession of listening devices.

#36 | Posted by Danforth

Dan--the news reports lied--made shit up out of thin air.

Does this surprise you??

MURPHY

They caught O'Keefe with a cell phone he was taking video with and found listening equipment outside to monitor the mics they were attempting to put on the phones. What lies are you talking about. They got caught red handed

#79 | POSTED BY COOKIEPUSS
"I'm here.
Hurray for me!"

LOL. Hurray for you!

Yes--they were using the cell phone to record.

There was a guy in the car--but there was no bugging equipment and no wiretapping equipment.

They had a hidden camera in the hard hat and the cell phone taping.

You know when a journalist goes undercover they use all kinds of disguises and hidden cameras when they go into places.

They were not putting any 'bugs' any where in the office or on the phones.

They wanted to know why Landreau's office said their phones were down for weeks after she took the bribe for LA of 300 Million dollars.

They were recording the staff using the phones that were supposedly down.

The media ran with lies.

Does anyone know of a good restaurant in San Antonio TX??

I have heard that Old San Francisco Steak House is great.

Any other??

Much obliged...lol

"Does anyone know of a good restaurant in San Antonio TX??"

maps.google.com

The Google is weak with this one.

Murphy,

Here's a link to the Riverwalk in San Antonio along with a list of restaurants. But having never been to Texas, I couldn't vouch for any of the restaurants on the list from personal experience.

MURPHY

If O'Keefe wasn't planting a bug, what was their plan? To bug the phones is moot if they didn't have any bugging equipment with them. They were caught bugging a Senator's office.

The affidavit does not mention that the two faux repairmen were in possession of wiretapping equipment. Just because it is not mentioned it does not follow that they weren't.

On San Antonio Mexican restaurant, La Disentera Amebiana, comes highly recommended. Right wingers are lined out the door as repeat customers LOL

LOL--

Since I know a little bit of Spanish I'll pass onthat recommendation AU..

He he he, MURPHY (shhhhhhhh......)

As for O'Keefe--

Here--

www.youtube.com

Thanks CC--

I hope we get to the Riverwalk.

Going there for three days for Manager/Onwers Meeting.

Owners--

"There was a guy in the car--but there was no bugging equipment and no wiretapping equipment."

Riiiiight. He was a few blocks away, just sitting in a car when he was arrested. Riiiiiiiight.

"The circumstances of Dai's arrest are difficult to square any theory that the men were just checking the protocols of Landrieu's phone system. A federal law enforcement official told the Associated Press that one of the four suspects was arrested a few blocks away in a car with "a listening device that could pick up transmissions.""

www.alternet.org

It's the Economists Stupid

Economists like to think they are scientists but for the most part they are shilling for the powers that be. We won't get out of this mess, until we call them on their shell game, broaden our thinking about how and for whom the economy works and take matters into our own hands.

What makes economists think they are doing science? Economists say they collect data and test their theories against facts. They ask how well their models predict outcomes. They portray themselves as providing policy makers with facts; it is the policy makers who make policy who gets the tax break; who gets fired; who gets fed.

If you or I criticize their methods we are written off as unscientific, having an agenda, somehow weak minded.

Scratch the surface of this faade and it quickly crumbles. Economists rely on theories riddled with normative judgments more is better, work is a disutility, it is rational to be self-interested we act independently, we are rational, labor is a resource.

Economists pretend to be an objective but their tests depend on their theory. There is no objective measure, outside of theory, to test their theories. Nor can economists predict the future. Yet economists think they are doing science, science devoid of curiosity.

Don't think I'm saying that one cannot do economics at all, only that any number of approaches to economics, be it institutional, feminist, Marxist or ecological, is possible. Each theory defines the economy differently, describes human behavior differently, and comes to different conclusions about what to do. One cannot claim as mainstream economists do, that only their approach is correct; only their approach produces a rational view of the world. That's pure hubris. Hubris got us into this mess and it won't get us out.

Richard Posner, the well-regarded Chicago school economists who recently declared he is now a Keynesian. Keynes the conservative knows that without intervention, and at least a veneer of legitimacy, the capitalist system is doomed. Why has the breakdown of the world economic system yielded only one such convert?

The scientific community, I mean the real one, has its own problems with objectivity, but most scientists agree that we have to act very quickly to avoid catastrophic climate change. Throwing the door open to corporate dominance of politics is irrational the legal equivalent of the final scene from Thelma and Louise only with straight white men driving all of us over a cliff.

Don't be impressed by the men in suits. Don't listen to the pseudo-scientific babble of the high priests of the economy. Take things in your own hands, work for what's right, make a bold move in the direction of the common good. We have to do it now we have no time to waste.

Excepted from David Kristjanson-Gural

"Economists pretend to be an objective but their tests depend on their theory. There is no objective measure, outside of theory, to test their theories. "

Nonsense. There are many tests to the theories, everything from the theory of elasticity to the Laffer Curve.

"Each theory defines the economy differently, describes human behavior differently, and comes to different conclusions about what to do."

Ugh. Stop before I need a shovel and wading boots.

but danforth,

what does it say that the people who claim to be saving us, which they won't actually do, are the same assholes that deliberately created the disaster in the first place. There is no denying the Greenspan and Bernanke knew this was the inevitable result of their policies. The retired Greenspan has publically admitted it, but not Bernanke, who was just reappointed for four years. Bernanke is still pretending.

....and don't confuse the theory with the test. There is no meaningful theory, unless it has predictive value. On that front they are pretending to be clueless. So if there is valid theory, then they are crooks, spinning everything for the Oligarchy.

" There is no meaningful theory, unless it has predictive value."

But your author said theory has no way of testing other than theory, and that's bullshit.

I shortened it, maybe except testing "within" the theory would have been better...

Paul Craig Roberts and others have been predicting this disaster, just no economist that G-Sax gives permission for them to work "for our Government".

few blocks away in a car with "a listening device that could pick up transmissions.""

Yes--the guy was listening to the tape recorder in the hard hat.

There were no bugs or wiretapping...

Just like MSLSD tapes the child perps for their show.

Or the hidden camera is a dozen 60 Minutes shows--probably more.

"Paul Craig Roberts and others have been predicting this disaster"

So have I, since the first 125% LTV was advertised.

"testing "within" the theory would have been better..."

What other type of "testing" is there? How are you going to test supply and demand if you're not working with supply or demand?

MSLSD

No wonder Murphy gets beat up on these threads so often...

She listens to that whining idiot Mark Levin.

"Yes--the guy was listening to the tape recorder in the hard hat."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. 'Cause cops always arrest guys blocks away from a crime for the offense of listening to a tape recorder.

"There were no bugs or wiretapping..."

Watch the Hannity piece again, and you might notice O'Keefe shirts around that issue several times, issuing non-denial denials. Hannity asks repeatedly if they had any equipment on them, and O'Keefe's typical response is more or less 'no bugging, no wiretapping occurred'.

The public doesn't know what's in the Indictment. If they were there to 'bug' the phones, they'd be real Keystone Kops if they weren't caught with bugging equipment, tools, etc.

Al Qaeda Determined to Strike Inside US w/i 6 months.

www.usatoday.com

Sounds vaguely familiar.

Be Well.

I am sure that large cities in Canada have more population and better medical facilities. Cities like Tororto, Vancouver are always listed among the best places to live on Earth. Don't they have hopsitals and surgeons?

In the case of certain tricky procedures Canadian Health Care allows for citizens to have operations done in the US or elsewhere in the world if the procedure is unavailable in Canada.

Canadian Health Care then picks up the bill.

In the case of this Newfoundland and Labrador PM going to the US fer heart surgery it was merely a case of yet another foreign millionaire paying fer an operation out of his own pocket.

A real sticking point in the debate over American health care has to do with people confusing (deliberately or not) the quality of the care itself and the deficiencies within the health care delivery system.

Everyone agrees that America has some of the finest hospitals and surgeons on earth.

But that quality of care becomes useless to tens of millions who are either uninsured or under-insured by HC providers that rely heavily on using fine print and loopholes to refuse care.

American Health Care Quality = Good

America's Health Care System = Teh Suck

Got it?

Be Well.

Wonder why no one's talking about Murtha being in intensive care after gall bladder surgery?:

firstread.msnbc.msn.com

I see ChickenRancher won't be posting here for a while. Not surprised. That tends to happen when rightwingers share their heartfelt genuine viewpoints without watering them down.

How long did you have to whine to rcade to get him to ban him this time?

He's not on the restriction list...

I NEVER flagged him even once. But then again, given the hateful nature of his posts, I'm sure numerous posters (rightwing and leftwing) did flag them.

I never flagged him.

Nobody believes somebody as pussified as modrh8 isn't wearing out his mouse clicking on the abusive flag.

You give the other limpwrists around here a bad name.

I NEVER flagged him even once.

#112 | Posted by moder8

Yeah right, bullshitter. You whine to Rcade constantly about having posters exhiled. If you think anyone is buying your B.S., you are dumber than I've given you credit for. I'll bet you B.S. the Municiple Judges too in Jaywalking Court.

PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA IN US TODAY

WHY you ask?

okay here's why

he is here to have HEART SURGERY>>

WHAT???? he left the greatest health care in the fuckin world and came to the US for that??

Here's a link to the Riverwalk in San Antonio along with a list of restaurants. But having never been to Texas, I couldn't vouch for any of the restaurants on the list from personal experience.

#86 | Posted by CalifChris at 2010-

never been to texas.

oh you poor thing....

101, Moder8 is a female....

#84 | Posted by MURPHY

There are many, many good restaurants in San Antonio. Texas Roadhouse, Ruth Chris, *Texas Land and Cattle*, Rain forest Cafe, Joe's Crab Shack, Pappadeaux Seafood, etc. Old San Fransisco is OK, though I like the others better. For great, inexpensive food you must try Bill Miller's BBQ. They're like McDonald's down there.

So Wissy and Chairborne, the biggest pussies on the DR, don't believe me? I'm crushed. Once either of you learn how to post a thought without engaging in schoolyard flame tactics maybe I'll care.

You checked back to see how you bullshit was received, pudd'in. It went over like a turd in a punch bowl.

CORRECTTION

may not have been prime minister.
it was THIS guy

www.thefoxnation.com

Is modrh8 the least self aware poster on the retort? He's a posting contradiction.
His brother must be mortified.

CHINA
demanding things already

OBAMA administration tells intelligence to BACK OFF CHINA......

CHINA tells us to back off in tawain and the dali lama....

links to follow on
NEWS AT 11

#124 - we mustn't tweak our handlers...

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