Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, February 02, 2010

The Air Force Academy has set aside an outdoor worship area for Pagans, Wiccans, Druids and other Earth-centered believers, school officials said Monday. A double circle of stones atop a hill on the campus near Colorado Springs has been designated for the group, which previously met indoors.

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Colorado Springs is a gorgeous place. I could certainly see a follower of any of the various nature-oriented religions enjoying all it has to offer in that area.

It's also nice to see this happening, especially in the wake of some of the issues the Academy was having not long ago in terms of religious exclusion.

Granted, this story will no doubt draw the expected fire from the usual suspects on the DR.

But it should also garner some positive attention and dialog from those of us who value religious freedom.

And, as far as I'm concerned, that's who the story's for.

So mote it be?

So mote it be.

Word unto thy Mother.
(Jive/Shakespeare/Pagan talk. It's new!)

Hmmmm....Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR.

There ya go Tom. That should get things moving for you! : )

Have a wonderful evening!

So mote it be.

Word unto thy Mother.

Or "The Mote in God's Eye", one of the best SF stories I've ever read.

Hmmmm....Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR.

Seems to be a common theme with liberals, as in....worshiping Americas' wealth, but not those that created it....

When I was stationed in Germany our base's lead chaplain was hard core Southern Baptist. He worked very hard on securing a Wiccan area on base.

He said, rightly so, that it is the duty of military chaplains to respect and support the spiritual convictions of military members. He could lead a pretty good Pentecostal service when he needed to.

Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR

It's pretty hard to worship an ocean of prebiotic chemicals that doesn't exist anymore.

"He said, rightly so, that it is the duty of military chaplains to respect and support the spiritual convictions of military members."

Too bad the "tolerant" left aren't.

What were these prebiotic chemicals? Oh, they don't know? Why not?

We supposedly know almost everyting else about the beginning of the planet, even the temperatures, but we don't know what comprised the prebiotic soup? Testing the theory didn't really work to well? Shouldn't a new hypothesis be made?

Can't produce the key protein needed for any other protein to be created or held together? No problem.

#4 | POSTED BY LISA
"Hmmmm....Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR.
There ya go Tom. That should get things moving for you! : )
Have a wonderful evening!"

Aw, LISA! You hit-n-runner!

As far as "worshipping the creations" goes, I've known a few pagans and Wiccans, and I honesty wouldn't characterize their relationship to nature as "worship", but more of a "reverence". I've often noted a very strong "creator" element, although certainly different from yours.

Buenos nachos.

#7 | POSTED BY VERNON
"He could lead a pretty good Pentecostal service when he needed to."

And for those who don't know...that can take some serious game!

worshiping Americas' wealth, but not those that created it....

Maybe you should go out into your yard and build a shrine to Bill Gates out of old computers.

How does an article about tolerance descend into petty religious bickering that displays such intolerance at the very least ignorance?

He could lead a pretty good Pentecostal service when he needed to.

You'd think that the military --being the sworn defender of the US Constitution and all-- might have slightly more respect for the Establishment Clause.

If chaplains want to serve in the military they should do so on god's dime. He's got plenty of money, let Him pay their salary. Sponsoring a Pentecostal service is bad enough, but constructing an altar for the worship of nature at tax payer expense is a clear violation of one of America's founding principles.

There is no reason to believe a cadet stationed in America is unable to find a place and time during off-hours to worship freely. Colorado isn't a combat zone, and wiccans, who require no expression of faith, is as much a religion as a Star Trek convention.

As a former Marine, I've always wondered about those guys running around in their "comic opera" uniforms. To think that some of them have their finger on an a-bomb release when they get their wings. Heaven help us!

Yep, I'm sure those rock circles cost us a fortune. As for Wicca being a religion, well, its as good as any of the other organized superstitions I've ever heard. None of them make more sense than any other and they are all full of eons old mumbo-jumbo to explain why the sun comes up everyday. So if the christians get a place to bow to the sky daddy, everyone else should get to do what makes them happy too, its only fair...

Yep, I'm sure those rock circles cost us a fortune.

Cost isn't really the point. Imagine being the private sent to that hill with a shovel to make an altar for a "religion" you want no part of. You think he signed up to build hippy idols?

None of them make more sense than any other

Agreed. That's why Jefferson and Madison took such care in building a "wall" (more like a picket fence nowadays).

What if someone joins and wants to worship the Aztec god? Hey, it only requires one beating heart be pulled every day to be sure the sun will rise. What's the big deal? It won't cost much money, just big rock and a (semi) sharp knife.

Surely they don't need much more than a tree and a large, black pot.

Spo, you forgot the pointed hat.

"Surely they don't need much more than a tree and a large, black pot."

A big part of being a member of a new age religious group is complaining about unfair treatment and how your needs are not being accomodated.

"worshiping Americas' wealth, but not those that created it...."

I won't worship them but I do have respect for the memory of all the slaves, indentured servants and working class folks who built this country. Sometimes though I think those who inherited great wealth forget who they should thank for their good fortune.

You think he signed up to build hippy idols?

Wicca predates judeo-christian mythology by a bunch.

A big part of being a member of a new age religious group is complaining about unfair treatment

Hell, you can't hear them complaining over the wails of the xians complaining about not getting to set up altars in court houses, muslims taking over the world, or that war on christmas crap.

These wiccans get a double row of rocks to worship their non-existant entity. I'm betting the poor, abused christians got an air conditioned church with all the comforts of home for their one hour a week nap time..

Good. Keeps them off the streets.

"mmmm....Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR."

The Earth is your Creator. Is there a Creator of Earth? hmmm could be but that remains to be SEEN. Fact is we know the Earth exists and from it we sprang...most probably. Unless of course Life was seeded here by a more advance life form. Even if that is true should we Worship them?

Again... that remains to be seen...as of yet no one has seen them.

Meanwhile, the wiccans should have the same religious rights as the xtians or the thetans.

As for me I wanna see the Native American Church recognized more... I wanta try a little Peyotism! I hear it helps you to be able to SEE the Creator!

What do think about that LISA? Would you be brave enough to try it?

YOU have a nice one too!

What were these prebiotic chemicals?

Water, methane, ammonia, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanide and nitriles, small aldehydes, inorganic phosphate, urea, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, sulfides, iron... to name a few. Different microenvironments would have contained different amounts of the stuff. It's a stew capable of producing practically every building block of life under conditions that were present on the early earth.

we don't know what comprised the prebiotic soup

According to...? This stuff has been studied for less than a century, and already science is closer to describing the origin of life than a 2000-year-old religion could even dream of coming.

Wicca predates judeo-christian mythology by a bunch.

Wicca was invented by an occultist named Gerald Gardner in the mid-20th century. It sprung out of the Golden Dawn, a defunct group that he belonged to... a group that is pretty much the mother of all new-age philosophy. William Butler Yeats (the poet), Arthur Edward Waite (the guy who made modern tarot decks), and Aleister Crowley (the nutcase that Ozzy sang about) were all members.

The Golden Dawn, in turn, drew inspiration from centuries of western esotericism (a blend of Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Greek, and Egyptian ideas that got tossed around Europe). The Golden Dawn claimed to be a descendant of the Rosicrucians.

"Or "The Mote in God's Eye", one of the best SF stories I've ever read.

#5 | Posted by goatman"

GoatTroll, stop wanking off with your gripping hand to SciFi on the forum

GoatTroll, stop wanking off with your gripping hand to SciFi on the forum

Nice segue

#5 | POSTED BY GOATMAN
"Or "The Mote in God's Eye", one of the best SF stories I've ever read."

Heinlein himself agrees with you.


Wow....seems the DR Right, and their monopoly on Christianity, are pretending this doesn't bother them.

Seems odd considering that these are the same clowns who were up in arms when the Military started allowing the Wiccan symbol on a soldiers graves after a widow sued.

A big part of being a member of a new age religious group is complaining about unfair treatment and how your needs are not being accomodated.

#21 | Posted by Sully at 2010-02-02 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Sounds a lot like todays Christianity...

"Rosicrucians"
~ZH

Free Masonry?

"The goddess is symbolic of the Earth," Longcrier said. "Do I believe I'm worshipping this female entity living in the Earth or up in space somewhere? No. The symbolism is very important."

This kid made a 5.0 in high school (all advanced courses) and made it into the Academy, was even an Easgle Scout! He had to find something to piss off his parents with....

Free Masonry?

Depending on who you ask, all of those organizations are a forest that sprang out of the same soil at around the same time. There are definitely Hermetic / Western esoteric elements in Freemasonry, and there are references to the Rosicrucians in Freemasonry.

The Rosicrucians were a Medieval secret society that came into the public eye in the 17th century by publishing Hermetic manifestos. It's hard to tell if the Rosicrucians inspired Freemasonry to incorporate their symbolism or if early Freemasonry spawned Rosicrucianism.

What is known is that a lot of groups since the 17th century have taken the name. If you want to start a Western Esotericist movement and establish your credibility, you claim to have some knowledge of the original Rosicrucians. The Golden Dawn did just that - they said that they were still in contact with the "secret chiefs" of the Rosicrucian order.

"Hmmmm....Worshiping the creations, but not the CREATOR."

Pagans and druids don't believe that these things were created in the sense that you believe, Lisa. And as another said, they don't _worship_ those things; they revere them.

+++++

"Seems to be a common theme with liberals, as in....worshiping Americas' wealth, but not those that created it...."

We're supposed to worship _people_? If you worship any wealth creators, I'm worried for you.

+++++

"If chaplains want to serve in the military they should do so on god's dime. He's got plenty of money, let Him pay their salary. Sponsoring a Pentecostal service is bad enough, but constructing an altar for the worship of nature at tax payer expense is a clear violation of one of America's founding principles."

Yeah, they sure spent a lot of money constructing _two circles of rocks_.

+++++

And weirdest of all EDDIE made me laugh. That's just wrong.

Oh Lisa, your arrogant, selfish,blow hard of a god didn't create anything, but he sure as likes to take credit for it.

Nice to see some people actually do understand what freedom of religion means--freedom to worship whoever or however you believe--rather than just freedom to be Christian and self righteous.

All have the freedom to worship what they choose, whom they choose, as they choose.
That includes Lisa. While she meant what she said, she did say it in good humor. She's not telling anyone what they can't do.
And Christians hardly have a corner on the self-righteous market. I've kept some for myself.

Yea If I was to join a Church it would be:

Native American Church

considering that these are the same clowns who were up in arms when the Military started allowing the Wiccan symbol on a soldiers graves after a widow sued.

#31 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2010-02-02 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

You have any particular clowns you can point to? Or are you just talking out of your ass as usual, with your head in the way?

#35 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-02-02 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thx for the reply, that was informative

Well said, The.

considering that these are the same clowns who were up in arms when the Military started allowing the Wiccan symbol on a soldiers graves after a widow sued.

#31 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2010-02-02 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

You have any particular clowns you can point to? Or are you just talking out of your ass as usual, with your head in the way?

#40 | Posted by vernon at 2010-02-02 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

You, for starters.

#40 | POSTED BY VERNON
"You have any particular clowns you can point to? Or are you just talking out of your ass as usual, with your head in the way?"

Vernon, can you think of any reason why Wiccan soldiers shouldn't have a symbol of their religion on their graves?

Why?
What do they worship? incorrectly?

Incorrect is a matter of opinion, however strongly held.

As far as "what" do they worship...
Do Christians worship a cross?
Do Jews worship a star??
Do Muslims worship a crescent?

And yet these symbols of their religions are placed on their graves, in commemoration of their service and their faith.

For the record, the pentagram is one of 39 religious symbols allowed by the VA.

Would anyone deny the widow of a fallen serviceman the right to have the symbol of her and her slain husband's faith on his grave?

For what POSSIBLE reason?

As an advocate of tolerance and understanding for all people, a fact that is well known by my friends on DR, I think its about time the witches got theirs.

this is so cool go AF!

"Pagans and Wiccans and Druids"?

Oh my!

Nice to see the Gaia-based religions get their due here.

Meh, as far as Spud is concerned worshiping the planet that actually sustains all of us seems slightly more sensible than most of the other organized superstitions that exist out there.

Be Well.

Yeah, they sure spent a lot of money constructing _two circles of rocks_.

And you're making the mistake of thinking that one's principles can be modified so long as the right price is met. I only mention cost --which I'm sure Wiccans would be glad to meet if asked to do so-- because if the Feds are holding a receipt, their violation of the Constitution becomes undeniable.

The rocks may not cost much, no, but I notice you didn't offer to speculate on how much the Federal Government spends to secure thousands of Catholic, Jewish, or Mormon "chaplains", their "holy" books, hymnals, and chapels. Is that because the cost of all that might not be as easily dismissed, or because you think the Federal government should be in the imaginary-salvation buisness -- at any cost?

Oh! The horror!

"Cross found at Air Force Academy's Wicca center"

" its opening, heralded as a sign of a more tolerant religious climate at the academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., was marred by the discovery two weeks ago of a large wooden cross placed there."

"We've been making great progress at the Air Force Academy. This is clearly a setback,"

" said Tuesday, "It's been two weeks were you going to get around to telling them about this horrible thing that happened, and why haven't you?"

"In a statement, Gould said, "We absolutely will not stand for this type of destructive behavior."

"On the weekend of Jan. 17, Weinstein said a client of his organization who is based at the academy spotted a cross, constructed of railroad ties, propped against a rock at the center. The client reported it, and the Office of Special Investigations began an inquiry."

"One faculty member, who attended and asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter, supported Weinstein's characterization of the meeting."

www.latimes.com

"This kind of horse play WILL NOT be tolerated!!!"
--- The Tolerant Left ---

If chaplains want to serve in the military they should do so on god's dime. He's got plenty of money, let Him pay their salary.

Sponsoring a Pentecostal service is bad enough, but constructing an altar for the worship of nature at tax payer expense is a clear violation of one of America's founding principles.

That couldn't be more wrong or shortsighted if you tried.

Free exercise of religion (or lack thereof) was so important to the Founders they included it in the 1st Amendment. Forcing soldiers to worship is not acceptable, but providing them reasonable access to worship if they choose is absolutely required.

Additionally, chaplains perform duties that are non-denominational, such as personal counseling.

I do not believe it is for the interest of religion to invite the civil magistrate to direct its exercises, its discipline, or its doctrines; nor of the religious societies that the general government should be invested with the power of effecting any uniformity of time or matter among them. Fasting and prayer are religious exercises. The enjoining them, an act of discipline. Every religious society has a right to determine for itself the times for these exercises and the objects proper for them according to their own particular tenets; and this right can never be safer than in their own hands where the Constitution has deposited it... Every one must act according to the dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that civil powers alone have been given to the President of the United States, and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents (letter to Samuel Miller, Jan. 23, 1808).

In justice, too, to our excellent Constitution, it ought to be observed, that it has not placed our religious rights under the power of any public functionary. The power, therefore, was wanting, not less than the will, to injure these rights (Letter to the Society of the Methodist Episcopal Church at Pittsburg, Dec. 9, 1808).

Let's see, who should we trust, the actual author of the separation doctrine or you?

So you believe that in Colorado no solider will find, "reasonable access to worship" outside the Federally funded wiccan idols or base chapels?

Have you ever been to Colorado? You can't throw a dead cat without hitting a smoking altar of some sort.

Let's see, who should we trust, the actual author of the separation doctrine or you?

So you believe that in Colorado no solider will find, "reasonable access to worship" outside the Federally funded wiccan idols or base chapels?

Have you ever been to Colorado? You can't throw a dead cat without hitting a smoking altar of some sort.

Facts don't seem to matter to you, so I'm sure this will be a waste of effort, but here goes...

Cadets at the military academies aren't generally allowed off the grounds, except on designated occasions. For that matter, new recruits on military bases are also not able to come and go as they wish.

So even if we ignore your complete lack of understanding of what Separation means, you still don't have fact on your side.

I'll also repeat the basic fact that the 1st Amendment exists primarily to protect religious freedom- by prohibiting establishment of a state religion, it allows citizens to worship as they choose (or choose not).

The relevant yardstick for whether something violates Separation of Church and State is the "Lemon Test", as defined by Warren Burger:

First, the statute must have a secular legislative purpose; second, its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion; finally, the statute must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

Clearly, the establishment of a military chaplaincy DOES serve a secular purpose, doesn't advance or inhibit religion (although removing the chaplaincy very could inhibit free exercise for cadets, recruits, and troops stationed overseas), nor is there any entanglement, because the chaplaincy is a strictly non-military role. Chaplain officers don't carry weapons and don't have authority beyond their role.

You simply couldn't be more wrong.

Clearly, the establishment of a military chaplaincy DOES serve a secular purpose

Damned right it does. Chaplains serve two masters: the god that directs them, and the military/congress/prison/
police force that employs them. Surely you aren't so naive as to believe that both masters always (or ever) have the same agenda? The line between "rocking the boat" and ecclesiastical independence is a fine one, and we shouldn't ask people to walk it while under oath to a Constitution that forbids it. But far be it from me to make the arguments theists should be making....

doesn't advance or inhibit religion

Tell that to the Wiccans! Who in 1999 were slapped around by Bob Barr, christians, muslims, and jews for a similar structure at Ft. Hood. They complained allowance at the base constituted "official recognition".....because it does! This is of course makes a negative implication to any religion not yet awarded this privilege.

the chaplaincy is a strictly non-military role

Who just happen to be held to the same code of military justice as all the other soldiers, and take commands from the same officers. Officers who may or may not hold the same spiritual beliefs/respects.

The relevant yardstick for whether something violates Separation of Church and State is...

...The United States Constitution[Full Stop]

Last week I was posting the recorded opinion of the Court which you were flatly denying on the merits of your own opinion. This week the roles have reversed. I won't be so bold as to hold my opinion higher than the Court's in this redux, hopefully the author of the Constitution will suffice:

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative. The Constitution of the U.S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them; and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation.

The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles: The tenets of the chaplains elected [by the majority] shut the door of worship against the members whose creeds and consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics and Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the Legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman ever hope to be appointed a Chaplain? To say that his religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the veil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers, or that the major sects have a right to govern the minor.

If Religion consist in voluntary acts of individuals, singly, or voluntarily associated, and it be proper that public functionaries, as well as their Constituents should discharge their religious duties, let them like their Constituents, do so at their own expense. How small a contribution from each member of Congress would suffice for the purpose? How just would it be in its principle? How noble in its exemplary sacrifice to the genius of the Constitution; and the divine right of conscience? Why should the expense of a religious worship be allowed for the Legislature, be paid by the public, more than that for the Executive or judiciary branch of the Government. ...

Better also to disarm in the same way, the precedent of Chaplainships for the army and navy, than erect them into a political authority in matters of religion. The object of this establishment is seducing; the motive to it is laudable. But is it not safer to adhere to a right principle, and trust to its consequences, than confide in the reasoning however specious in favor of a wrong one.
(Detached Memoranda 1817)

Clearly, the establishment of a military chaplaincy DOES serve a secular purpose

Damned right it does.

So you agree. Good.

doesn't advance or inhibit religion
Tell that to the Wiccans! Who in 1999 were slapped around by Bob Barr, christians, muslims, and jews for a similar structure at Ft. Hood. They complained allowance at the base constituted "official recognition".....because it does! This is of course makes a negative implication to any religion not yet awarded this privilege.

Which is an argument for inclusion of Wicca, not an argument for exclusion of others.

the chaplaincy is a strictly non-military role
Who just happen to be held to the same code of military justice as all the other soldiers, and take commands from the same officers. Officers who may or may not hold the same spiritual beliefs/respects.

Chaplains are noncombatants who have quite clearly defined roles. When their duty as a chaplain conflicts with military orders, they are bound to their chaplaincy.

The relevant yardstick for whether something violates Separation of Church and State is...
...The United States Constitution[Full Stop]

Agreed. The 1st Amendment is quite clear that each individual has a right to free exercise of religion (or not to exercise, if the case may be).

In 1979, the Supreme Court took up the issue of the military chaplaincy in In Katcoff v. Marsh, and recognized that failure to provide chaplains would deprive military personnel of their free exercise of religion, as demanded by the 1st Amendment.

Whatever your personal opinion of "theists", neither you nor I nor the military can violate their rights.

So you agree. Good.

Of course. I wouldn't expect the military to continue any program it doesn't think serves them. The usefulness of something doesn't necessary declare it to be "right", though.

In 1979, the Supreme Court took up the issue

And when the Lemon test was applied at the State level, it failed. Only by excluding chaplains from scrutiny did they survive.
""In other words, the presence of two countervailing constitutional considerations the War Powers clauses[19] and the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause[20] militated against application of the Lemon analysis.[21]""

each individual has a right to free exercise of religion

No kidding. What an individual doesn't have the right to is Federal funding to facilitate their religious service.

Your opinion (rather the Court's opinion) is valid, I accept it. But you must admit that a ruling in contrast to the opinion of the very person who wrote the Establishment Clause is odd to say the least.
Either Madison didn't actually write those words from his memoir, OR the Court has misinterpreted the Constitution. They can't both be correct. So I side with what the author says it means.

each individual has a right to free exercise of religion
No kidding. What an individual doesn't have the right to is Federal funding to facilitate their religious service.

Incorrect, when the individual in question is limited in movement and activity by the government. Prisoners and military personnel do, in fact, have a 1st Amendment right to government-funded access to practice of their faith, because sans that provision, they wouldn't be able to practice.

Your opinion (rather the Court's opinion) is valid, I accept it. But you must admit that a ruling in contrast to the opinion of the very person who wrote the Establishment Clause is odd to say the least.

Nope. Not at all. No single individual is responsible for the original Constitution or any amendment, and no author's personal view supersedes that which is written, or that which is interpreted by the court.

Either Madison didn't actually write those words from his memoir, OR the Court has misinterpreted the Constitution. They can't both be correct. So I side with what the author says it means.

It is your prerogative to cling to faulty ideas.

sans that provision, they wouldn't be able to practice.

Nothing in the Constitution would prevent an individual state from paying for imams. No religion is prohibited from providing services to their flock with charity. No government institution is required for any man to consult with his god, and none of the three major religion would disagree. It is predictable however that theists believe there to be a strong connection between the amount of available Federal funding and one's ability to "practice".

"there are no atheists in foxholes" the fallacy tells us. Yeah, well, there aren't any priest in foxholes either, yet somehow the faithfull survive.

It is your prerogative to cling to faulty ideas.

And your prerogative to dismiss the creed of the Founders as "faulty". Just don't be surprised if someone assumes you to be a traitor to the Constitution as a result.

sans that provision, they wouldn't be able to practice.

Nothing in the Constitution would prevent an individual state from paying for imams.

Nor the military budget, for that matter.

It is predictable however that theists believe there to be a strong connection between the amount of available Federal funding and one's ability to "practice".

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with "theists", or why you believe "theists" are pertinent in a discussion of the 1st Amendment rights of American Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, and Seamen.

"there are no atheists in foxholes" the fallacy tells us. Yeah, well, there aren't any priest in foxholes either

You really don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you?

Chaplains do serve in combat zones, and are commonly wounded or killed. They also serve in occupied lands, such as Iraq and Afghanistan- where Jewish soldiers no doubt appreciate having a rabbi available now and then, Episcopalian soldiers no doubt appreciate having a priest available now and then, and indeed- Muslim soldiers no doubt appreciate having a Muslim chaplain available now and then.

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