Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, February 01, 2010

In its budget proposal to be released on Monday, the White House predicts a record $1.6 trillion budget deficit for the fiscal year that ends September 30, a Capitol Hill source told Reuters. According to the estimate, deficits will narrow to $700 billion by fiscal 2013 before gradually rising back to $1.0 trillion by the end of the decade, the source said.

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

daprof

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

surely more tax cuts for millionaires is what is needed to solve this problem.

Clinton left office with projected budget surpluses for as far as the eye could see.

Greenspan testified before Congress that a tax cut was needed to avoid "paying off our debt too quickly". Add in 8 years of GWB stewardship and this is where you end up.

I personally think it was a mistake for Obama to not roll back the 2001 tax cuts for upper incomes last year.

Every day this is not address is only compounding the problem.

But of course this was the goal of the Neocons, to bankrupt the government to eliminate social programs.

I personally think it was a mistake for Obama to not roll back the 2001 tax cuts for upper incomes last year.

#1 | Posted by JimmyWallback

That has probably been the biggest mistake of the Dem congress and the Obama administration, so far.

What's stopping Obama now?

I personally think it was a mistake for Obama to not roll back the 2001 tax cuts for upper incomes last year.

#1 | Posted by JimmyWallback

They're due to expire December 31st, 2010

Why not roll back all of them? Were all of Bush's tax cuts reckless and irresponsible? Or just the ones that didn't benefit you?

Rightisright-
re: Were all of Bush's tax cuts reckless and irresponsible?

Well, to abolish "pay-go" in 2002 and then go on to spend without even attempting to pay for it, and doubling the DEBT.

Yeah, that was irresponsible.

But you didn't care so much then.

But you didn't care so much then. *SQUAWK!*
But you didn't care so much then. *SQUAWK!*
But you didn't care so much then. *SQUAWK!*
But you didn't care so much then. *SQUAWK!*
But you didn't care so much then. *SQUAWK!*

boy(d)

who knows what everyone cared or didn't care about "then" LOL

Actually, I wanted to abolish the Department of Education, Energy, HUD, Homeland Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the EPA, Transportation, move up eligibility for Social Security and Medicare to age 70 and index it to longevity after that, and repeal that idiotic prescription drug benefit.

Voila! Nothing but surpluses, far as the eye can see. Still, you know best.

And by the way--I'll get what I want, eventually. Either the dumbasses who we send to Washington will do it voluntarily, or the markets will force it on them. If you think we can run $1.5 trillion deficits in perpetuity, you're wrong.

The easy way, or the hard way. Either way, it's coming.

who knows what everyone cared or didn't care about "then" LOL

#7 | Posted by goatman at 2010-01-31 11:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, on this blog the only way I really have to gauge such things is what people said on the blog a few years ago. What I recall is Rightisright cheering the unfunded tax cuts.

I could be wrong, of course, and my memory may be faulty. I welcome RightisRights vociferous condemnation of Bush's deficit spending, but I just don't recall hearing any at the time. I'd be happy to see it, and apologize, though.

But, but, but, RiR, you said borrowing was a good thing two years ago when the GOP wrote the budgets.

Half our deficits are servicing the national debt Bush and the GOP needlessly left behind, and the rest are the 2 tax cuts the wealthy didn't need, Medicare Part D, the Iraq War, etc.

Rightisright-
]
re: Actually, I wanted to abolish the Department of Education, Energy, HUD, Homeland Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the EPA, Transportation...

When the candidate who runs on that platform wins, and you vote for him, give yourselves a good strong high-five in my honor.

My recollection is that you strongly supported a debt-doubling authoritarian spendthrift for most of his eight years in office.

But that's just my faulty memory, probably.

AmUnity, you're just a dumbass. Typical lib, who doesn't want to man up for the pussies that you've sent to Washington. So it's my fault that ObamaPelosiReid are screwing things up so badly.

You took my words out of context in a pathetic attempt to excuse the fact that Obama is running titanic deficits that we're not getting a thing out of. But the gig is up. If those uber-libbies in Massachusetts have figured out that the Dems are a bunch of retards, maybe you will, too.

But whatever. You're welcome to your delusions. A lot of Dumbos are counting on you to stay stupid, in about 10 months from now.

RightisRight-

Regarding budgets: when does the federal fiscal year begin?

Ever cross your mind? (I should probably explain this further. Rightisright, when Obama was inagurated, under which administration's budget was he operating, and until what month of 2009?)

He was still under Bush's budget, which means that the extra $780 billion he slapped on for stimulus spending gets put on his predecessor. Happens in business all the time.

I love the spin you libbies put on everything. Bush's $500 billion dollar deficits were reckless and irresponsible, but Obama's $1.7 trillion deficits are important and necessary.

But that's okay. The rest of America is getting smarter faster than you are.

Well, on this blog the only way I really have to gauge such things is what people said on the blog a few years ago.

???

Yet you always tell me (almost always erroneously) what I thought a few years ago and I wasn't even here then. So you finally admit you make stuff up, child?

I love the spin you libbies put on everything. Bush's $500 billion dollar deficits were reckless and irresponsible, but Obama's $1.7 trillion deficits are important and necessary.

Talk about attributing something no one said!!

...I just don't recall hearing any at the time.

Perhaps THIS will help.

Lots of posts here seem to justify bad behavior with prior bad behavior. Just because under republicans the government spent too much is no reason for the current democrat government to spend too much.

The Headline should read:

White House to paint grim fiscal picture, then spend $3.8 trillion dollars.

Seriously, Goatman. I'd be glad to hear that either you or Rightisright thought it was stupid for Bush and the Republicans to abolish pay-go, start two wars, and cut taxes while doubling the debt; I just don't recall that being the case.

"Libertarian"
re: Lots of posts here seem to justify bad behavior wit"h prior bad behavior.

I can only speak for myself and Goatman, but mostly I just question your sincerity and your basic understanding of the of how budgeting is done at the federal level.

Seriously, Goatman. I'd be glad to hear that either you or Rightisright thought it was stupid for Bush and the Republicans to abolish pay-go, start two wars, and cut taxes while doubling the debt;

Again? I speak only for myself. Admit that you childishly assigned false positions to me over the last two years and promise you won't play that juvenile game again and I will say it again for you.

I just don't recall that being the case.

Of course you don't. So you are saying if you don't hear me say it, you have the right to decide whether it's true or not. Cool. Can I play that game, too? I've never heard you say that you don't like getting involved with shetland ponies, so using your logic, I guess you do indeed like getting a little equine nooky, right?

I'm still surprised by how many folks mistakenly believe that the Executive Branch is responsible for Gummit spending.

I can only speak for myself and Goatman

???

When did you decide you are my spokesman, boy(d)?

I'm still surprised by how many folks mistakenly believe that the Executive Branch is responsible for Gummit spending.

#23 | Posted by libertarian_gi at 2010-01-31 11:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ultimately, the president is responsible, unless he is a Republican and, also, 9-11.....

surely more tax cuts for millionaires is what is needed to solve this problem.

Millionaires own businesses.

They hire people to work for those businesses.

Right now, they really want to expend capital to grow those businesses.

Unfortunately, a left-wing ideologue in the White House makes for an uncertain fiscal and regulatory outlook.

So here we are.

Its a shame we're a decade into the 21st century and so many people still don't understand such a basic, basic concept.

re: When did you decide you are my spokesman, boy(d)?

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2010-01-31 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, as long as I'll be accused of it every day ad nauseam, I thought I might as well have some fun.

He was still under Bush's budget, which means that the extra $780 billion he slapped on for stimulus spending gets put on his predecessor.

The Stimulus money was appropriated but not all spent. 29.62% spent so far. Medicare Part D will cost an estimated $150,000,000,000 this year.

projects.propublica.org

"The Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation calculates that the combined cost of the Bush tax cuts (or put another way, less income tax revenue collected) from 2001-2017 will be $2 trillion, and this doesn't even bother to add the interest of servicing all of that extra debt, which the Congressional Budget Office estimates to be around $340 billion."

"...the total federal tax revenues represented 20.9 percent of GDP. This was the highest level since 1970. But in 2004, after a few Bush tax cuts, that figure had dropped to 16.3 percent of GDP, which was the lowest level since 1959. Of the 4.6 percent of GDP lost, three-quarters of that was a drop in the individual income tax revenue, with the remainder coming from a drop in corporate income taxes."

It's spelled "W r e c k l e s s"

Cost of Iraq war will surpass Vietnam by year's end

Its a shame we're a decade into the 21st century and so many people still don't understand such a basic, basic concept.

#26 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2010-01-31 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just out of curiosity, is there a limit to how much taxes should be cut for the wealthy before it is stupid and irresponsible and leads to a doubling of the debt with no appreciable up-side?

Well, as long as I'll be accused of it every day ad nauseam,

So you don't deny assigning false positions every day ad nauseum like a child?

Tax cuts for the wealthy didn't add jobs. In fact, we've lost 7,000,000 under George W Bush's administration following 20 million created under Clinton.

We've have lost a lot of revenue through tax cuts and unemployment. Deficits are a direct result.

See post above for a detailed breakdown of a handful of wreckless GOP policies and how much of the debt and deficits are directly attributed to them. Add in the $700,000,000,000 a year to service the national debt - interest and principal.

I guess since Bush was reckless with his spending it's OK for Obama to be even more reckless with his spending? It's fine for liberals to piss and moan about Bush and the god-awful economic practices. But it seems that most of the arguments merely cite Bush's behavior, and ignore the planned behavior of Obama. Was it OK for Bush to run up the debt and deficit to the extent that he did? Is it OK for Obama to out pace Bush by 3 times?

I don't think it's spelled "W r e c k l e s s." That would denote an absence of wrecks.

Goatman-
re: Of course you don't. So you are saying if you don't hear me say it, you have the right to decide whether it's true or not. Cool. Can I play that game, too?...

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2010-01-31 11:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fine. I'll accept your premise that you thought a total abnegation of responsibility for the future welfare of the nation on the part of Republicans over the past thirty years, and especially during the last decade, was reprehensible. I'll do this without any evidence to support such a claim, of course, in keeping with your petulant demand.

Will that do?

Just out of curiosity, is there a limit to how much taxes should be cut for the wealthy before it is stupid and irresponsible

So long as dumbshits like yourself walk the earth advocating punitive tax rates on entities simply because they meet your inchoate definition of "wealthy", all tax cuts will be "stupid and irresponsible".

Its really a shame.

This economy should be off the chain by now.

SPOKANEJIM

Ya got me! "R e c k l e s s ". I should proof my posts LOL

Dumbshits cut taxes while planning on going to war.

I guess since Bush was reckless with his spending it's OK for Obama to be even more reckless with his spending?

'Tis funny how a "debate" on the role of government spending so quickly devolves into a Bush deflection.

The point of contention is government spending---not the political affinity of a particular participant in the discussion.

Re: I guess since Bush was reckless with his spending it's OK for Obama to be even more reckless with his spending?

No. But it is reasonable to expect ostensibly engaged citizens not to be ideological idiots. It is reasonable to expect that they have a rough understanding of recessions, budget cycles, the fiscal year, etc.

It is reasonable for ostensibly alert people to understand that not only were you disappointed with Bush, but that he royally fucked the nation with your support.

It is reasonable to question your motives now that, in the wake of a near global depression you are a sudden deficit hawk.

It reeks, I'm sorry to inform you.

Dumbshits cut taxes while planning on going to war

Why not?

That's what creates wealth.

And taxable revenue.

Millionaires own businesses.

They hire people to work for those businesses.

Right now, they really want to expend capital to grow those businesses.

Unfortunately, a left-wing ideologue in the White House makes for an uncertain fiscal and regulatory outlook.

JAK SE MAO

Uh, no. Banks aren't lending and businesses aren't borrowing what they might anyway because of a shattered economy left by Bush and the GOP's policies of 'hands off' regulation.

The "left wing ideologue' in the White House got left a smoking heap of an economic mess thanks to the reckless geniuses you hold so dear to your heart

Will that do?

No. I guess you thought I'd be bamboozled by your trips to the on-line thesaurus. I wasn't. But thanks for proving what I said earlier about your selective reading. Re-read #22, strain your brain, and figure out what's missing. (hint: it starts with:)

Admit that you childishly assigned false positions to me over the last two years and promise you won't play that juvenile game again and I will say it again for you.
I know you don't have the balls to do it though, but it's fun to watch you tacitly admit it.

Jak-
Just out of curiosity, is there a limit to how much taxes should be cut for the wealthy before it is stupid and irresponsible and leads to a doubling of the debt with no appreciable up-side?

#29 | Posted by BetelG at 2010-01-31 11:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is none, as you have demonstrated again and again.

It is reasonable for ostensibly alert people to understand that not only were you disappointed with Bush

It is reasonable to question your motives now that, in the wake of a near global depression you are

"You are".

An ad hominem.

How sweet.

Its not about Obama's spending.

It's about your supposed enthusiasm for someone else's spending.

Jak-
re: Why not?

That's what creates wealth.

And taxable revenue.

#39 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2010-02-01 12:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

But as there is no limit to your blind ideological stance that cutting taxes for the wealthy is always good, you make no sense.

businesses aren't borrowing

Businesses aren't borrowing and making their moves because there's a left-wing ideologue in the White House.

I understand that's an assertion a politically sycophantic lounge singer might have trouble wrapping his little brain around.

Unfortunately, in the real world, its the truth.

I haven't seen a single person on this site be a proponent of deficit spending but RightIsRight - a couple years ago.

It's a pity Bush and the GOP's policies left this country in a hell of a mess.

Righties don't want to admit that truth, or acknowledge revenue shortfalls caused by unemployment either. They prefer acting as though W was never President and all this mess was created in the last year.

Jak-
re: Businesses aren't borrowing and making their moves because there's a left-wing ideologue in the White House.

Gosh, it's so simple when you believe it, or parrot what you've read. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the FED, or interest rates, or the shitstorm the people you voted for created.

But as there is no limit to your blind ideological stance that cutting taxes for the wealthy is always good

Except I didn't take a stance that cutting taxes for the wealthy is always good.

That's a little garden you grew for yourself to feed the demagoguery that has apparently replace any intellect you might have brought to the table.

Gosh, it's so simple when you believe it

Its got nothing tho do with "belief".

Its simple reality.

Businesses aren't borrowing and making their moves because there's a left-wing ideologue in the White House.

Everybody knows it.

Unless you live in some little warped cocoon in the Public Sector or "The Arts".

Businesses aren't borrowing and making their moves because there's a left-wing ideologue in the White House.

I'd give you a funny flag, but I don't give them to Tadowe either for the same reasons.

Jak-
re: Except I didn't take a stance that cutting taxes for the wealthy is always good.

I'll take your word for it.

When is it not good?

You seem to think it's good under the circumstance of two wars while the debt is doubling, so I'm really curious as to when you think it's a bad idea.

Invasion from Mars? Um...

Help me out here.

When is it not good?

When the economy is roaring.

When the economy is roaring.

#53 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2010-02-01 12:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, that really rules out the last eight years.

It's actually a nice construct. Republicans can't govern and the economy sucks, so they can push for tax cuts for the wealthy as a stimulus without relent.

When, as under Clinton....

Oh, they pushed for tax cuts for the wealthy then too.

Oh well.

Later blog.

Well, that really rules out the last eight years.

The economy was pretty fucking good the last 8 years, Boyd.

Jak-
re: The economy was pretty fucking good the last 8 years, Boyd.

Um.. you mean before it collapsed. And this was the time you were for tax cuts for the wealthy?

There's a lot of material for ridicule in there, Jak, but I really have to go. Some of us didn't inherit a living.

so they can push for tax cuts for the wealthy as a stimulus without relent.

It is a stimulus, Boyd.

That's what makes the economy better.

The evil, rich bourgeois spending their ill-acquired capital to perpetuate the rape of the environment and The Workers.

The sooner you come to terms with this basic, objective truth, the sooner the world around you will begin to make more sense.

#38 - " you are a sudden deficit hawk."

Please show me somewhere, anywhere, that I have agreed on the running of large deficits. Or any deficits for that matter. I am not a "sudden deficit hawk." It's understandable that some deficits may be run by large governments from time to time. However, the running of large deficits, year after year, with no reasonable ability to pay the future debt, is senseless. Bush was excoriated by the left for running up a deficit of 400+ billion, yet those same lefties seem to think nothing of Obama's deficit of more than thee times that. The old deficit hawks now seem to be doves when it comes to the actions of their own party.

The only way the left can get by the Obama economy is to blame Bush and to simply ignore the fiscal numbers Obama has put up. The fiscal budget was only the beginning, and created under a Democrat-run Congress. Since then it's been nothing short of a spending spree. The 2010 budget is a monster, and the so-called spending freeze is a farce.

It's time to own up to an Obama economy, and shake the Bush bashing.

Um.. you mean before it collapsed.

Yeah.

And this was the time you were for tax cuts for the wealthy?

I'm always for tax cuts for the wealthy.

Some of us didn't inherit a living.

I hear you, Kamrade....

Wish I had a public sector job like you...

It's time to own up to an Obama economy, and shake the Bush bashing.

LOL any other magic tricks Obama should be performing?

The economy was pretty fucking good the last 8 years, Boyd.

#56 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

As people borrowed on their home equity, ya. Inflation adjusted wages fell, millions of jobs were outsourced because greedy companies didn't want to pay a living wage (except millions to top management).

The house of cards fell down.

t's time to own up to an Obama economy, and shake the Bush bashing.

Hell, the GOP were saying it was his economy before he was sworn into office. Right wingers refuse to place responsibility on those who crashed the car and want to blame the paramedics instead.

Inflation adjusted wages fell

"Inflation-adjusted" wages have been falling a hell of a lot longer than 8 years.

millions of jobs were outsourced because greedy companies didn't want to pay a living wage

Why should they do business here when they can move somewhere with a far better tax and regulatory policy?

Nobody "owes" you a "living wage" (whatever the fuck that is).

blame the paramedics instead.

Except if the paramedic tries to smother the patient with a pillow, they're gonna get blamed.

Real median household income has decreased by
almost $1,000 under President Bush. During the Clinton Administration, real median
household income rose by $6,000, or 14.0 percent.

JAK, if you're so unAmerican you feel it's right to outsource jobs, deny a living wage, or worse yet, 'insource' with H-1B workers so some chump can make $100,000,000 a year, you're in a league of your own. Not American. Something else.

Let's call it "Bush" league. Ya.

I'll repeat:

Real median household income has decreased by almost $1,000 under President Bush. During the Clinton Administration, real median household income rose by $6,000, or 14.0 percent.

You're entitled to your opinions but not your own facts.

Except if the paramedic tries to smother the patient with a pillow, they're gonna get blamed.

#65 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

Again I'd give you a funny flag for a laughable statement, but for the same reasons I don't give them to Tadowe I won't give you one either. You live in an alternate reality.

Good night, JAK

I suggest bed rest and reading. Lots of it. :-)

Good night, JAK

I suggest bed rest and reading. Lots of it. :-)

It boils down to a fundamental understanding of economics.

If the people in charge understand the dynamics that exists between policy and economic outcome, they're doing a good job of hiding it.

But I'm fairly certain they do understand those dynamics.

Most of the economic misery we're continuing to see is self-imposed by an ideological administration that needs a continued sense of crisis in order to shift the political culture in its favor.

During the Clinton Administration, real median household income rose by $6,000, or 14.0 percent.

What does that have to do with what the Obama administration is doing?

You're entitled to your opinions but not your own facts.

Most of the economic misery we're continuing to see is self-imposed by an ideological administration that needs a continued sense of crisis in order to shift the political culture in its favor.

That's a timeless statement.

Replace economic with any variety of terms.

I suggest bed rest and reading

But why would someone so poorly informed about basic economic reality suggest his antagonist read?

You claimed real wages fell every administration. I knocked that statement on it's head where it belonged with (GASP!) facts.

It's your right under the 1st Amendment to spout all the nonsense and hatred you want to, but the pronouncements you offer are nothing more than your opinions. I'm into facts myself.

That's a timeless statement.

Actually, it was posted at 1:11am EST.

Replace "economic" with any variety of terms.

No.

It doesn't really work as a universal concept, then.

Sorry, man.

You claimed real wages fell every administration

??

No I didn't.

I'm into facts myself

Even when you make them up?

You claimed real wages fell every administration

Where did I do that?

Can you give me a post #?

Most of the...misery we're continuing to see is self-imposed by an ideological administration that needs a continued sense of crisis in order to shift the political culture in its favor.

Looks pretty good to me.

Actually, it was posted at 1:11am EST.

But instead you feel the need to be a dumb fuck.

But why would someone so poorly informed about basic economic reality suggest his antagonist read?

#75 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

Because you talk out of your ass with nothing but hate filled opinions. Your brand were blaming all our troubles on Obama before he even took the oath of office, yet never acknowledge facts 100% of the intellectually curious can read 24/7. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

Actually, it was posted at 1:11am EST.

But instead you feel the need to be a dumb fuck.

Which of course doesn't surprise me since it appears to be your primary objective on the DR at the very least.

Do those around you that can actually stand your presence feel enlightened by your presence? Or are you a tediously boring condescending dickhead with them too?

"Inflation-adjusted" wages have been falling a hell of a lot longer than 8 years.

JAK SE MAO

They didn't under Clinton. Duh. They went UP $6000 a year.

I'm into facts myself.

Facts are great, so long as they're employed in support of whatever argument you're attempting to make.

Unfortunately, you're attempting to hammer the contents of a thread into some regurgitated rejoinder you read in the Huffington Post about "real wages", or something.

Do those around you that can actually stand your presence feel enlightened by your presence?

Absolutely.

Or are you a tediously boring condescending dickhead...

I'm no more "condescending" than a kindergarten teacher is condescending with her charges as she teaches them to read.

Its basic economic principles on a left-wing blog.

Looks pretty good to me.

What looks good to you?

10% unemployment?

A stagnant economy?

Inevitable inflation?

Or are you one of those clueless little shitstains that gets a government, public sector paycheck every month?

I'm no more "condescending" than a kindergarten teacher is condescending with her charges as she teaches them to read.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm so yes.

The real point of the article is that even Obama doesn't believe--10 years from now--that he can do anything except ring up $1,000,000,000,000 every year. Presumably, he'll still be blaming Bush for his own staggering incompetence.

We'll just let the markets fix things. They always do. America was stupid enough to vote in this bunch of dumbasses, and the bill is in the mail.

What looks good to you?

Do you actually pay attention while you read? Or is reading comprehension not really your strong suit?

I said it was a timeless statement that ideological administrations maintain a constant sense of crisis to swing the political winds their way.

Your original statement had the word "economic" in a place that could be any number of policy issues that ideologues could manipulate for political gain.

You were a asshole in response so I clarified.

And here we are. You being an asshole again. Me attempting to clarify again.

10% unemployment?

A stagnant economy?

Inevitable inflation?

I'm doing just fine.

Now if only I could bring myself to not give a fuck I could claim to be Republican.

Or are you one of those clueless little shitstains that gets a government, public sector paycheck every month?

Nope.

I said it was a timeless statement that ideological administrations maintain a constant sense of crisis to swing the political winds their way.

And a specious argument could be made for that in any number of contexts, for sure.

*clap clap*

You're quite the philosopher.

The point of contention is the current administration and it's taxation and regulatory policy---and how it's purposely fucking people over in order to continue a sense of crisis so that the political culture shifts to the left in a permanent way.

Nope.

Bullshit.

You're too fucking clueless to be anything but a college kid or a government employee.

And a specious argument could be made for that in any number of contexts, for sure.

*clap clap*

You're quite the philosopher.

Alright, you can comprehend what you read.

Good for you.

The point of contention is the current administration and it's taxation and regulatory policy---and how it's purposely fucking people over in order to continue a sense of crisis so that the political culture shifts to the left in a permanent way.

I understand that.

I just don't feel the need to show my perceived intellectual prowess.

Just making a statement and killing some time.

Bullshit.

You're too fucking clueless to be anything but a college kid or a government employee.

I'm a graduate student.

Honestly, economics bore the shit out of me.

Discussions of economics is even worse since it's generally between opinionated blowhards such as yourself.

The point of contention is the current administration and it's taxation and regulatory policy---and how it's purposely fucking people over in order to continue a sense of crisis so that the political culture shifts to the left in a permanent way.

BTW I hear pseudo-intellectual douches discussing this sort of stuff in coffee shops all the time.

They're not usually butt fucking frat boys though so I guess you got the worst of both worlds.

I'm a graduate student.

BTW I hear pseudo-intellectual douches express their frustration at the inability of stupid-ass Working Class Heroes to just "get" what Obama is trying to do for them---and how everyone's reality right now can be explained away in a simple talking point about "the last eight years" and that jingoisitic asshole George Bush.

Those tend to be the people who have never had to work for a living---and for whom "the economy" is some abstract notion they don't have to face until mommy and daddy get tired of subsidizing a lifestyle of Warcraft and Zombie fantasies.

Wow I guess I struck a nerve lol

BTW I hear pseudo-intellectual douches express their frustration at the inability of stupid-ass Working Class Heroes to just "get" what Obama is trying to do for them---and how everyone's reality right now can be explained away in a simple talking point about "the last eight years" and that jingoisitic asshole George Bush.

Have I defended Obama or his policies?

I pointed out that it's utterly ridiculous to start claiming this is Obama's economy considering it's only been a year and economic trends unfortunately don't follow neat, concise calender schedules.

I readily admit other issues (ie continuation of Iraq war, Gitmo ect) can't really be blamed on Bush any longer.

I also readily admit, and this is going to be a tough one for you to get, that even within an issue some things will be attributed to Bush and others won't. It's not a black and white as your Coors addled mind wants it to be.

Those tend to be the people who have never had to work for a living---and for whom "the economy" is some abstract notion they don't have to face until mommy and daddy get tired of subsidizing a lifestyle of Warcraft and Zombie fantasies.

LOL ahhh there's the fratdouche in you. Assume that since they disagree with you they obviously live with their parents and aren't self sufficient.

However that's where your frat douchiness, and your world view in general as I've seen on the DR, fall short. Hard working, self-sufficient people can and do disagree with you. You're just too narcissistic and self-righteous to see it.

BTW you don't deny you got the worst of both worlds?

So you're a frat douche hippy.

No wonder you're a miserable son of a bitch.

"...some regurgitated rejoinder you read in the Huffington Post about "real wages", or something.

JAK SE MAO:

Huffington Post, eh? This information is available in a plethora of places. If you got off FreeRepublic.com you might learn something most people who like to be armed with facts instead of hyperbole know. Why is it most of the free world but you know the economy was in good shape when Clinton left and in the tank when W left?

Real Clear Politics - (from Roll Call, the official Capitol Hill publication)

"Such as: Median household income in the United States rose $6,000 in the eight years of Bill Clinton's administration, to $49,163, but fell to $48,023 during Bush's first six years in office. Certainly, it's still falling.

Also, the economy grew by an average of 4 percent during the Clinton years and created an average 1.8 million jobs a year. Under Bush, gross domestic product has grown just 2.7 percent a year and created 369,000 jobs a year - and a recession is probably under way to cut even those numbers.

The price of gasoline in 2001 was $1.39 per gallon. Now, it's $4. The number of Americans lacking health insurance was 38 million; now, it's 47 million. The national debt was $5.7 trillion in 2001; now, it's $9.2 trillion. The dollar was worth 1.07 euro; now, it's .68."

(that was from April '08. Of course, now we know the national debt was over $12 Trillion when W left, and, of course, gas has come down a dash. You really should get of the ranch or off whatever hideous websites you frequent for your 'information')

The dollar was worth 1.07 euro; now, it's .68."

So it took Bush 7.5 years to do that? The exchange for was 77c when Obama took office and was 70c one yeear later. So he's well on track to surpass Bush after only 4 years if the same slide occurs. Just sayin'

The author of the reprinted Real Clear Politcs piece I linked:

Morton M. Kondracke (born April 28, 1939) is an American political commentator and journalist. He currently serves as executive editor and columnist for the non-partisan Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call, an Economist Group business. He was also co-host of The Beltway Boys on Fox News Channel and is a regular nightly contributor on Special Report with Bret Baier.

(just in case you tried to throw the 'leftist POS journalist' in our faces LOL)

(Beltway Boys and Special Report with Bret Baier are both on FauxNews BTW)

#99 | Posted by goatman

We should expect the dollar to bounce back (that has been in decline since Bush took office) with a worldwide recession going on? Ain't gonna happen.

... with a worldwide recession going on?

Key word: Worldwide. If it was exclusively an American recession, you would have a valid point about the slide of the dollar. But presumably Europe is part of the group you called 'worldwide', right? So all else being the same, why is it the dollar, not the euro and yen that are sliding?

that has been in decline since Bush took office)

Actually, it started to decline well over a year after he took office.

www.oanda.com

Actually, it started to decline well over a year after he took office.

I began to notice it then too. I earn royalties from Europe and my publishing administrator notes the conversion rate on the statements. It's been a boon for me though. The higher the Euro the more U.S. $'s after conversion.

Why should they do business here when they can move somewhere with a far better tax and regulatory policy?

Nobody "owes" you a "living wage" (whatever the fuck that is).

#64 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2010-02-01 12:59 AM | Reply | Flag

No they don't but it is against our nation's best interest to destroy the middle class. The recession, the deficit, housing values, etc. are all going to continue to bite this country in the ass unless there is real wage growth.

By taking it up the ass from corporate interests the government has sown the seeds of our own destruction.

Be sure to teach your children the meaning of B.O.H.I.C.A.

Wow! What a guy...simply amazing accomplishments in such a short time in office.

"Obama argues the deficit was projected to top USD 1 trillion when he took office in January 2009 amid two wars and a recession that hit government revenues and led to an increase in spending for programs such as unemployment benefits."

Which it was, as per the CBO. I believe the numbers are 84 percent Bush, 16 percent Obama.

One thing you can never call George Bush is a, "cheap date".

And, at least this budget pays for the war expense and the tax cuts that 95 percent of Americans got, and does not foist it off on our children as GW and the Repubes did.

Hay, the good news is the revenue stream for Cap and Trade is already figured into this budget, otherwise it would be a lot higher. Good thing they passed it or we would be in worse shape.

What? It hasn't passed yet?

"But an administration official told Reuters USD 646 billion in projected revenue from a controversial cap-and-trade climate change bill had been dropped from the budget, implying the White House is doubtful the measures will pass Congress."

Reading. It's FUNdamental.

It was around 482B in 2008

"He was still under Bush's budget, which means that the extra $780 billion he slapped on for stimulus spending gets put on his predecessor. "

Yet Bush's deficit was still only a half-trillion.

Go figure.

obama said we can't keep spending,so instead of raising the deficit 35% over last year you would think he could find a 5% reduction and just raise it 30%

How much of this budget is interest on the debt run up by Reagan, Bush and Bush???

McCain's Top Campaign Adviser: Record Deficits Would Have Happened Under McCain, Too

But the former Congressional Budget Office director did acknowledge that, even with these changes, the country "probably would still have a record deficit" as is projected under the Obama administration.

The acknowledgment by Holtz-Eakin is a blow of sorts to the GOP argument that the record-breaking $1.56 trillion projected deficit is solely Obama's responsibility. One hour after Holtz-Eakin's interview, for instance, RNC Chairman Michael Steele sent out a statement, lashing the White House for "growing the deficit by record proportions and killing jobs by raising taxes on small businesses."

In actuality -- as most sober-minded economists attest -- many of the deficit problems the current administration faces today are traced directly back to the policies of its predecessors. This, indeed, seems to be implicit in Holtz-Eakin's acknowledgment.

In December 2009, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities concluded that the then-$1.4 trillion annual deficit run by the government under Obama had much to do with the Bush administration's package of tax cuts, the wars it launched in Iraq and Afghanistan and its response to the recession.

www.huffingtonpost.com

Obama hasn't contributed a fucking penny to this number. -Corky and Danni, The Two-Ply Economy Team.

WISGOD doesn't like facts that disturb his little talking point bubble. It's nice and comfy in there all surrounded by Republican talking points, no need to ever think or question anything.

Reading uptrend is prolly too difficult for Wissy, what with using only one hand and all.

www.drudge.com

No Danni, I have a clear memory of the 783B Stimulus along with the other boondoggles like the GM bailout and cash for clunkers. You and Corky need to take some ownership, along with the boy who would be dictator.

"No Danni, I have a clear memory of the 783B Stimulus along with the other boondoggles like the GM bailout and cash for clunkers."

GM says they will pay government back this summer and you'll lose another talking point.
The stimulus was pretty well defended by the President the other day, Republicans showing up to cut ribbons for projects they voted against...virtually every elected official at their retreat has teachers, firemen and police still on the job thanks to the stimulus....millions receiving unemployment because of stimulus....we're not now in a depression...thanks to the stimulus....but you continue repeating your stupid talking points as if you ever had a thought in your life. Riiight.

So we would have been in a depression.....GM will pay back their loan this summer..... blah, blah, blah. Between you reading the tea leaves and failing to deal with the present day, it's no wonder you give this poor excuse for a President a free pass.

50% of the country will always be in love with president feel good. the other half already knows they've been had. just sit back and watch him implode. look left. look right. look left. look right. priceless!

to the idiot in chief, running a hot dog stand would be a challange

How much of this budget is interest on the debt run up by Reagan, Bush and Bush???

#114 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-01 12:52 PM | Reply, why danni? Facts dont matter to you and your little kool AId drinkers.

The deciphered Reisurelaw:

"I don't have a fucking clue, Danni, and don't care to know. That information is not useful to my ideological rants."

That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Its only a matter of time.

Betelg you gad fly, are you also incapable of research...or is your KOol aid too tasty huh?

Try the facts...

www.american.com

First, while President Obama is fond of promoting what he calls a "new ethic of responsibility"in fact he named his first budget, for fiscal 2010, "A New Era of Responsibility"that is a misrepresentation of his actual budget plan. For each of Obama's years in office, the deficit is projected to be larger than any year during Bush's terms.

This bears repeating...For each of Obama's years in office, the deficit is projected to be larger than any year during Bush's terms.

Second, Obama is right to note that he inherited a large deficit in fiscal 2009. But as we can see here, he is responsible for growing the deficit beyond expectations in fiscal 2009 and thereafter. In fact, in its January 2009 projections, the CBO built in most of the Bush-era policy spending, including the TARP bailout (which President Obama voted for as a senator) and the takeovers of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In spite of his rhetoric, President Obama bears most of the responsibility for the red part of the bar in fiscal 2009, which includes, among other things, some auto bailouts and $31 billion of additional funding for the omnibus bill, the share of the stimulus funding spent in that fiscal year.

Third, Obama's deficits are frightening but they promise to get worse. Each month that goes by the president adds spending to the deficit. The August 2009 projections for instance, do not include any of the president's healthcare reform spending and they assume that the "temporary" stimulus spending will not be prolonged past fiscal 2011. Finally, they also assume that the economy will recover soon and that it will grow enough to generate increasing tax revenue, in spite of the president's plan to impose new taxes and regulations on the private sector. In other words, the deficit will likely continue to deteriorate beyond the current projections.

By the Numbers:
Before Bush I, the National Debt increases year after year.

National Debt and Deficits from Bush I through current?

Bush I, it increased.
Clinton, it increased.
These two it increased as it had for decades

Bush II - it exploded - almost doubled
Currently?

It is still exploding. It isn't just increasing. The projections in the news today show the increases are heading for another double.

The WH may present budgets, but the House controls the 'bill' that is written.

6 years of Rep's. 3 years of Dem's. Nothing has changed in spending.

As for the party of "NO", Bush II had the Party of "YES" for his last two years.

If you think "NO" is bad, so is "YES".

But as we can see here, he is responsible for growing the deficit beyond expectations in fiscal 2009 and thereafter.

Google the deficit projections a few years out, which your ranting sources won't do. You won't either, of course, because it's not useful to you. Neither the recent past or future is useful to your coarse mix of ideology and anger right now.

Ah. Sorry my progressive friends, this budget be a little too big.

Three things need to happen:
1) Some social programs need to be tossed back on the state or restructured. Mass. did a good job with state-wide health care. Wisconsin did a decent job with workfare. Social programs need to be run effectively and efficiently. Want federal health care? Fine. But its going to be the bronze standard with rationing. If you can afford better great, but we'll give you just the basics if you want it for free. Our social programs will take care of you, but you won't enjoy it and will want to get a better job asap.

2) Higher taxes. Sorry. No way around it. Taxes were much higher under Reagan. You want to be a part of the richest country in the world? Want low crime, good education, strong military? It isn't cheap. Time to chip in and stop asking only what your country can do for you.

3) A serious discussion about the taboo areas of the budget needs to occur: Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense Spending. Defense spending is about 40% of the budget. You want to cut spending? We can't ignore the 500 lbs gorilla in the room.

Well, I think this will sufficiently piss off both sides. So it won't happen. One more reason why when Obama tried to create a commission to balance the budget, Dems and GOP voted against it.

Google the deficit projections a few years out, which your ranting sources won't do.
Posted by BetelG

Why? Is Danni's crystal ball on the fritz again?

Wisgod-
I understand that you have been off-planet for the last few years, so you may have missed the fact that late in Bush's second term the economy imploded, requiring massive state intervention to avoid a decades long global depression. Short term deficits were/are thus required, but long term structural deficits (which Bush and Republicans ran through their eight years after abolishing "pay-go") are projected to lower in the mid-term, just a few years out.

Defense spending is about 40% of the budget. You want to cut spending? We can't ignore the 500 lbs gorilla in the room.

more like 19%.

en.wikipedia.org

"more like 19%."

Read the caveat:

"The recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were largely funded through supplementary spending bills outside the Federal Budget, so they are not included in the military budget figures listed below."

Danforth-
Of course not. Bush payed for the wars with tax cuts!

#134

Good point. It appears to all be included for the 2010 year though and that adds some to it...I'm guesssing about 5% points.

"Mass. did a good job with state-wide health care."

Not really, their system has rewarded insurance companies but done nothing to reduce the cost of health care.

What a novel thought. Paying for shit. Is that Marx?

re: I'm guesssing about 5% points.

As long as you are guessing, what do you guess the Iraq war will cost, in toto?

I've heard that estimates of 75 billion dollars are "wildly off the mark".

"It appears to all be included for the 2010 year though and that adds some to it..."

It is not an accident that it wasn't included under Bush and it is not an accident that those costs are listed in the budget under Obama. It is a basic difference between honesty and dishonesty.

#140

LOL and FF.

I don't see what everyone is so upset about, after all the oil will pay for the war.

I don't see what everyone is so upset about, after all the oil will pay for the war.

#142 | Posted by danni

Didn't Obama promise it to Russia for them allowing us to scrap our Missle shields?

"Didn't Obama promise it to Russia for them allowing us to scrap our Missle shields?"

Yeah Wisgod that's what happened, good job keeping up with things there. What do you do, just look up in the sky and pull out some fragment of a talking point and then figure you made a point???
BTW, I'm still glad Obama cancelled those idiotic missile shields.

BTW, I'm still glad Obama cancelled those idiotic missile shields.

#144 | Posted by danni

Guess again.
The United States has expanded land- and sea-based missile defense systems in and around the Gulf to counter what it sees as Iran's growing missile threat, U.S. officials said.
www.reuters.com

The missile defense system we were talking about would have been in Poland, now I'm no expert but I don't recall a major situation existing between Poland and Iran which would cause Iran to shoot missiles in that direction. I would imagine mos t missile defense systems designed to stop Iranian missiles would be set up to defend Israel.

re:"Didn't Obama promise it to Russia for them allowing us to scrap our Missle shields?

#143 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-02-01 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can almost understand why some ideological retard might say this on the radio, or in front of a camera, but you actually typed this nonsense and sent it?

I can almost understand why some ideological retard might say this on the radio, or in front of a camera, but you actually typed this nonsense and sent it?

#147 | Posted by BetelG

Is it my fault that you and Danni can't determine when a joke is a joke? But I certainly expect it from 2 of B.O.'s biggest supporters.

The missile defense system we were talking about would have been in Poland, now I'm no expert but I don't recall a major situation existing between Poland and Iran which would cause Iran to shoot missiles in that direction. I would imagine mos t missile defense systems designed to stop Iranian missiles would be set up to defend Israel.

#146 | Posted by danni

Why don't you just post that's it OK for Obama to piss away money deploying them but not Bush? God damn, you are pathetic.

Is it my fault that you and Danni can't determine when a joke is a joke? But I certainly expect it from 2 of B.O.'s biggest supporters.

#148 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-02-01 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

I guess I just don't get why making yourself out to be more of an ignorant idiot than you might be is funny.

I'll work on that.

Boyd/BetelG,

We signed a treaty with certain Eastern European nations (that just recently emerged from the yoke of Russian-Communist power) that included the provision of defensive missiles in the event of a Russian attack - they were overrun by Bosheviks just a couple of decades prior - but let's not burden ourselves with history.

Your beloved leader, Obama, shit-canned those treaties in order to appease an increasingly-hostile Russian state. Specifically, what did he ask for, and achieve, in return for pulling those strategic missiles?

www.youtube.com

Boyd?

BetelG?

I guess I just don't get why making yourself out to be more of an ignorant idiot than you might be is funny.

I'll work on that.

#150 | Posted by BetelG

Save some time to work on your grammer.

Yeah, I'll save some time to work on my "grammer", W.

Great Vid, Spokane.

I think most Americans would be VERY willing tp give Obama a pass for the mess he inherited - but 75% of his measures to 'combat' this shit only make it worse.

Jeff-
You understand that there is no Soviet Union, the cold war is over, and that most pressing issues are asymmetrical terrorism and nuclear proliferation, or are you still living in the pre-9/11 mind-set that took the Bush admin. by such surprise in 2001?

and that most pressing issues are asymmetrical terrorism and nuclear proliferation

Actually, I agree with this.

So, what now?

As I recall, Jeff, C. Rice was slated to give a talk on the missile shield on September 12th, 2001, way back when "no one could have anticipated" that that was supremely out of date.

So, what now?

#159 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-02-01 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, for starters, Jeff, it would seem that taking non-proliferation seriously, instead of outing agents in that field (Plame), and diverting all of our resources to stopping Saddam's WMD program is a good start by a new administration not mired in the bullshit you still toss at the wall as if it were erudite and current.

BetelG,

I don't lament the loss of the missile-shield so much as I lament our utter-lack of any meaningful concession in-return.

As it currently stands - we bent over to the Russians; sold out our allies AND got NOTHING in return for our capitulation. That is ridiculous!

Did they want the missiles, Jeff?

Have you ever inquired?

You also claim that we obtained nothing from the decision. Where did you get that idea?

#161 | Posted by BetelG

I didn't ask you for your bullshit Bush deflections.

I asked - 'where do we go now?'

Your ONLY reply was one of what we shouldn't do.

Fine.

But what SHOULD we do?

You seem to need to do a bit of research, Jeff, post cold-war. This is not to underestimate the wonderful education you may have received from relics on the radio, or first hand in your education however many years ago.

"but 75% of his measures to 'combat' this shit only make it worse."

But most economists disagree with your PARTISAN ANALYSIS. Most economic indicators are beginning to indicate recovery is slowly happening.

Your ONLY reply was one of what we shouldn't do.

more like what we shouldn't have done 8 years ago.

he has nothing to offer except piss and moaning.

You also claim that we obtained nothing from the decision. Where did you get that idea?

What DID we get in return?

Look - I hold out hope that Obama struck a 'secret' deal that favored this nation. Having said that, evidence points to the contrary.


You seem to need to do a bit of research, Jeff, post cold-war. This is not to underestimate the wonderful education you may have received from relics on the radio, or first hand in your education however many years ago.

#165 | Posted by BetelG

What a condescending ass you are - I would gladly put-up my knowledge of history against yours any day of the week - you are such a joke!

Boyd - you are free to malign me all you want, but my wife will be home from work in 10 minutes and today is her birthday. I am logging off now until after midnight. If you are willing, I will gladly address your arguments then - but for the time being, I need to try and make my wife's birthday special.

Have a great day!

But what SHOULD we do?

#164 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-02-01 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

What we should do is what at last we are doing. Stemming nuclear proliferation requires cooperation globally, something the Bush admin was ill-equipped, with your support, to do:

www.nytimes.com

www.washingtonpost.com

Look - I hold out hope that Obama struck a 'secret' deal that favored this nation. Having said that, evidence points to the contrary.

#168 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-02-01 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I must have missed your evidence. Can you re-post it?

"We signed a treaty with certain Eastern European nations (that just recently emerged from the yoke of Russian-Communist power) that included the provision of defensive missiles in the event of a Russian attack - they were overrun by Bosheviks just a couple of decades prior - but let's not burden ourselves with history."

And a missile defense shield would somehow prevent that from happening if Russia decided to re-invade???
That missile defense shield was nothing of significance except a stick in the eye for Russia.
If wouldn't have accomplished anything, would cost us money and insure that relations between the US and Russia remained less cooperative than they should be.

Happy birthday to your wife. You guys have a good night.

"But most economists disagree with your PARTISAN ANALYSIS. Most economic indicators are beginning to indicate recovery is slowly happening."

Tell that to those still losing their jobs, even after the "stimulus" failed to keep unemployment under 8%. Hundreds of thousands each month are giving up on finding any work at all. No hope left, and very little pocket change remaining.

www.huffingtonpost.com

We signed a treaty with certain Eastern European nations (that just recently emerged from the yoke of Russian-Communist power) ...

#151 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-02-01 04:35 PM | Reply

Who talks like this except someone who has just read an article in the National Review? Interesting that the Soviet Communist threat has easiy morphed into the threat of "Russian-Communist power" despite the fact that Russia turned capitalist.

"No hope left, and very little pocket change remaining."

Well you tell me, would they be better off with or without the extended unemployment benefits in the stimulus???
Would it help them if more people were laid off, like teachers, firemen, police???
Do you honestly believe anyone could have actually turned this economy completely around by now or are your comments really just partisan attacks on the president who has been doing a very good job???
Be honest if you can.

"or are your comments really just partisan attacks on the president who has been doing a very good job???"

The premise is wrong, therefor there cannot be an answer.

The stimulus was supposed to create jobs, there should be no need for extended benefits. Perhaps someone knew it wouldn't work? Probably a good thing they were there, since the stimulus thus far has been abysmal. More people laid off? That's a pretty stupid question, but you're hidden premise is apparent.

Lets see...1.4 under Obama first year ...1.6 under his second...total 3 TRILLION of the 13 TRILLION total. Or 23% of ALL the DEBT the nation has accured since 1776.

There is FISCAL RESPONSIBLITY for you! Dem president + Dem Congress = Da Money Dem GONE!

"Lets see...1.4 under Obama first year..."

That was Bush's final year, but don't let the facts get in your way.

How much of this budget is interest on the debt run up by Reagan, Bush and Bush???

#114 | Posted by danni

The figure I've read is $700 Billion (principle and interest) a year to service the national debt.

It is still exploding. It isn't just increasing. The projections in the news today show the increases are heading for another double.

As as Obama saliently pointed out during the GOP caucus, $8 Trillion was dropped on his doorstep with the unfunded Medicare Part D (which tripled to $150 billion last year), 2 wars, 2 unfunded Bush tax cuts, and $700 Billion a year to service the national debt.

So it's Bush's fault that Obama has to spend $3.8T next year. Maybe during the next presidency the Dems will quit blaming Bush. But I doubt it.

re: So it's Bush's fault that Obama has to spend $3.8T next year

Of course not. That would be the fault of your ignorance and gullibility and whomever the fuck you got that number from.

#184 - Dumbfuck, try reading (if you can) the news.

www.reuters.com

Jim-
Oh, I see. We were talking about the deficit and you threw in the budget number. But, yes, it is largely Bush's fault (and yours, and Republicans at large) that Obama needs to rescue the nation from financial ruin wrought by an eight year stint from an administration that came in with a balanced budget, a projected surplus, and peace.

Anyway, still have to go.

I'll check back later.

Betelg, I know you're not quite that obtuse. The deficit comes from budgetary spending, or spending over the original budget. Obama has combined the two to create deficits beyond compare. Surely I don't have to spell it out for you.

Myth of the "surplus." Clinton left out huge amounts of entitlements in his budget, to be added in later appropriation bills. Liberal slight of hand. If there was a "surplus," couldn't he have used the money to pay down the debt? Did he?

re: Myth of the "surplus." Clinton left out huge amounts of entitlements in his budget, to be added in later appropriation bills.

And Bush added two wars off the books and Medicare Part D, which they (Republicans, you) did not only not attempt to pay for, but willfully hid.

I wonder about that medicare part d time, you know, when tea partiers clogged the streets with rants about "socialism", "fascism" and irresponsible governance.

I'm sure you were there with your sign.

Of course, that's when Bush, Republicans, you were doubling the debt from five to over ten trillion.

Do you have any photos or other memorabilia from the hissy fit you guys pitched then?

Adios blog

What a condescending ass you are - I would gladly put-up my knowledge of history against yours any day of the week - you are such a joke!

#169 | Posted by JeffJ

Put down the purse, MiniMao. Harumph!

re: If there was a "surplus," couldn't he have used the money to pay down the debt? Did he?

#188 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-01 06:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, I suppose Bush could have. Instead, he took a balanced budget and added five trillion dollars to the debt and then left an epochal global meltdown to his successor, along with two wars he botched.

Dammit...when the mining is so rich I still must go!

Later all...really must go away from this blog!

I wonder about that medicare part d time, you know, when tea partiers clogged the streets with rants about "socialism", "fascism" and irresponsible governance.

I'm sure you were there with your sign.

#189 | Posted by BetelG

Now hold on, BetelG, are you sure it didn't start at that time?

The original theme of the "Tea Party" was started by Ron Paul and later hijacked by so many other Conservatives.

Ron Paul's main emphasis was (as is) on fiscal responsibility. Trying to keep it simple, he says that we don't need the income tax--if we take in a $trillion a year and spend $trillion a year on expanding the empire, and we dismantle the empire, there is no need for the income tax.

Here I'll help out the liberals a bit:

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush

"Here I'll help out the liberals a bit "

Interesting, isn't it? The first time The Party of Responsibility began talking about responsibility was last January 21st.

The first time The Party of Responsibility began talking about responsibility was last January 21st.

#196 | Posted by Danforth

Get use to hearing it.

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush

#195 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-01 08:12 PM | Reply | Flag: About as bright as they get in Spokane

"Get use to hearing it."

Oh, I've been asking for it for nearly a decade. My observation is that The Part of Responsibility wasn't interested in Responsibility until they could pin it on someone else.

Oh, I've been asking for it for nearly a decade. My observation is that The Part of Responsibility wasn't interested in Responsibility until they could pin it on someone else.

#199 | Posted by Danforth

They are all stinkers, Danforth. Hopefully, Obama has pushed the envelope far enough to wake everyone up.

End all foreign aid to every country (no exceptions).

It's US taxpayer money and it should be kept here in the states.

Some interesting points drawn from David Sanger's "Huge Deficits May Alter U.S. Politics and Global Power" in this morning's NYT (www.nytimes.com):

Unless miraculous growth, or miraculous political compromises, creates some unforeseen change over the next decade, there is virtually no room for new domestic initiatives for Mr. Obama or his successors. Beyond that lies the possibility that the United States could begin to suffer the same disease that has afflicted Japan over the past decade. As debt grew more rapidly than income, that country's influence around the world eroded.

Or, as Mr. Obama's chief economic adviser, Lawrence H. Summers, used to ask before he entered government a year ago, "How long can the world's biggest borrower remain the world's biggest power?"

As Sanger points out:

Mr. Obama's budget deserves credit for its candor. It does not sugarcoat, at least excessively, the potential magnitude of the problem. President George W. Bush kept claiming, until near the end of his presidency, that he would leave office with a balanced budget. He never got close; in fact, the deficits soared in his last years.

Mr. Obama has published the 10-year numbers in part, it seems, to make the point that the political gridlock of the past few years, in which most Republicans refuse to talk about tax increases and Democrats refuse to talk about cutting entitlement programs, is unsustainable. His prescription is that the problem has to be made worse, with intense deficit spending to lower the unemployment rate, before the deficits can come down....

[Obama's]greatest hope, [University of Texas professor James K.] Galbraith said, was Stein's law, named for Herbert Stein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under Presidents Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford.

Stein's law has been recited in many different versions. But all have a common theme: If a trend cannot continue, it will stop.
www.nytimes.com

Unless miraculous growth, or miraculous political compromises, creates some unforeseen change over the next decade, there is virtually no room for new domestic initiatives for Mr. Obama or his successors.

Exactly as planned since Reagan. To wit:

Two Santa Clauses

Get use to hearing it.


You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter,"

What's stopping Obama now?

#3 | Posted by KBM at 2010-01-31 08:46 PM

Nothing, but he is enabled by his retarded supporters who, while more than justified in their criticisms of the previous admin, won't hold the current admin accountable.


White House Projects $1.6 Trillion Deficit

That's not good, but you have to ask yourself:

How does the deficit affect you personally?

How does the deficit affect you personally?

#207 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY at 2010-02-02 11:06 AM

If the deficits continue resulting in inflation, and if my pay doesn't increase to match the rate of inflation, that affects me personally.

If the dollar becomes less and less the reserve currency, and the economy is weakened or the price of things like oil goes up, that affects me personally.

Seriously, Goatman. I'd be glad to hear that either you or Rightisright thought it was stupid for Bush and the Republicans to abolish pay-go, start two wars, and cut taxes while doubling the debt; I just don't recall that being the case.

#20 | Posted by BetelG

dont know about those specifically but I have read more than a couple of conservatives say just that in prior years.

instead of lying about paygo why dont the politicians just go ahead and come up with a blanced budget amendment and do it where it passes muster with the supremes..
it works for states who have it...
and while they are at it....being able to cut out bullshit from bills would be another place to go as in line item
AND YES I KNOW...not in constitution..when did THAT stop liberals before
ah but those make just too much sense for people in DC

AND ONE DOLLAR OUT OF EVERY THREE IS

BORROWED..

End all foreign aid to every country (no exceptions).

It's US taxpayer money and it should be kept here in the states.

#201 | Posted by Sluggo at 2010-02-01

been tried before hasnt it?

and didnt it end up with pearl harbor and hitler running amock?

and wasnt this same discussion going on since the very beginning...

AND on a LOCAL political note

wonder how kay baily will vote on this budget..
both perry and the other lady are hammering her on her senate votes before the primary next month here in the texas govs race...

wonder if she will vote the way we want her to or the way she THINKS we want her to....

That's not good, but you have to ask yourself:

How does the deficit affect you personally?

I think that is a Great question!!

why do you ask???

"Also, the economy grew by an average of 4 percent during the Clinton years and created an average 1.8 million jobs a year. Under Bush, gross domestic product has grown just 2.7 percent a year and created 369,000 jobs a year - and a recession is probably under way to cut even those numbers."

and which party was running both houses of congess during Clintons "success"? Those damn republicans forced Clinton to abandon his healthcare scam and actually forced him reign in spending. By the way all the success Clinton enjoyed was because he worked with Republicans and not locking them out.

Having one party running Congress and the white house is a dangerous combination. Out of control spending and bullshit agendas get rammed down the throats of all Americans.


If the deficits continue resulting in inflation, and if my pay doesn't increase to match the rate of inflation, that affects me personally.

If the dollar becomes less and less the reserve currency, and the economy is weakened or the price of things like oil goes up, that affects me personally.

#208 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Fair enough. But by how much would the deficit have to move either way before you felt it's effects? More importantly, how does this effect compare to say, losing your job or your health insurance?

Fair enough. But by how much would the deficit have to move either way before you felt it's effects? More importantly, how does this effect compare to say, losing your job or your health insurance?

#215 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY at 2010-02-02 11:25 AM

Of course losing my job or health insurance would be worse than just having less effective income, but that's a seperate issue. Most of our spending isn't keeping me in work or with health insurance. There is plenty of fat to trim and both parties are responsible for not trimming it.

Fair enough. But by how much would the deficit have to move either way before you felt it's effects? More importantly, how does this effect compare to say, losing your job or your health insurance?

You coldhearted bastard conservative!!!!

I remember asked these questions a few years ago and all I got in response was "so, it's fuck everyone else, I got mine, right Eberly...typical Christian cuntservative" etc. etc.

Obviously if I kept my job and benefits remained stable then, no, it wouldn't affect me very much unless I make $300K + and would be subject to bigger swings in the tax code etc....

Which reminds me, I wonder how much we will hear about the AMT how it is screwing more and more middle income Americans and how our POTUS and congress refusing to address it?

Something tells me that we won't hear about that problem very much now......

More importantly, how does this effect compare to say, losing your job or your health insurance?
#215 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY at 2010-02-02 11:25 AM

The deficit and the servicing of interest will need to be paid, possibly through inflation. The money used in the future to pay employees will now be used to pay off the deficit and interest. There will be a level of unemployment due to the servicing of the deficit, so all three will be possibilities for citizens in the future.

Here is an interesting quote from Peter Orszag, about Bushs $200Billion dollar deficit in 2004.....

"The key point is, even if it were sustainable, it's not desirable," said Orszag, a prominent Democratic economist. "We still will owe the money to foreigners. We're still mortgaging our future national income. Just because you can take out a larger mortgage to buy a bigger house doesn't mean you should."

Now he's driving the bus........


That's not good, but you have to ask yourself:

How does the deficit affect you personally?

I think that is a Great question!!

why do you ask???

#213 | Posted by eberly

Because I think that this panic by the deficit hawk 'converts' is disingenuous and politically motivated. I think that the country is in deep financial trouble and the first priority should be getting out of this deep and non-cyclical recession. The private sector is scared and not spending, so it won't be able to kick start the economy. The deficit will take care of itself once more people are employed and tax revenues go up. Fretting about it now seems counter-productive.

good discussion folks

keep it up....

and I agree eberly...that amt business needs to be addressed...

DOESNT it..like...get worse.. the longer its around???


"The key point is, even if it were sustainable, it's not desirable," said Orszag, a prominent Democratic economist. "We still will owe the money to foreigners. We're still mortgaging our future national income. Just because you can take out a larger mortgage to buy a bigger house doesn't mean you should."

Now he's driving the bus........

#218 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Conservatives that I've come across tend to be older (above 40) and only really concerned about their own wallets. So I find this sudden 'concern' for future debt obligations of all Americans disingenuous, especially given the recent past and the record spending by Reagan and the Bushes. So it's all right going to debt to give the rich a tax cut, to give oil companies subsidies and to give no-bid contracts to Halliburton, but not alright if it gets the economy out of the hole? Seems to me some people need to readjust their priorities.

so here is one congressmans idea.

kucinich

wants to DROP SS age lower to get rid of older workers and replace them with younger ones who make less money...

will that work???
said it could be paid for with tarp money left over or something like that..

is he right or just wacking off?

another idea on TAXES

to use a scale that slides with cost of living index in your "HOOD"....or...people who live in new york would pay more than people in podunk texas........

interesting

#219 DarthCheney> The deficit will take care of itself once more people are employed and tax revenues go up.

I cannot disagree more with your statement that "the deficit will take care of itself". Tax revenues have not fixed our deficit problems over the past 5-6 presidents because the politicians (of both political stripes) have spent whatever came into the federal coffers ... and then some. I see no reason to trust the current crop of politicians, until and unless they actually start to show some fiscal responsibility.


I cannot disagree more with your statement that "the deficit will take care of itself". Tax revenues have not fixed our deficit problems over the past 5-6 presidents because the politicians (of both political stripes) have spent whatever came into the federal coffers ... and then some. I see no reason to trust the current crop of politicians, until and unless they actually start to show some fiscal responsibility.

#224 | Posted by AKat

So you're willing to condemn this nation to a multi-year recession to teach 'government' a lesson? Doesn't that seem short-sighted, especially since republican 'deficit hawk' administrations have been responsible for most of the debt?
On a different note, how does the deficit affect you personally?

#225 Darthcheney> So you're willing to condemn this nation to a multi-year recession to teach 'government' a lesson?

I think we were going to get a recession even if the deficit was much less. I do think the recovery would have been much more swift with less government debt, but that's just a guess on my part.

I'm not 'condemning' this nation to anything: it will suffer for both foolish actions by consumers (who have mainly themselves to blame), foolish actions by bankers (who are largely bailed out by taxpayer dollars), and foolish politicians (plenty of blame there, taxpayers once again on the hook with the nation as a whole suffering economically).

> Doesn't that seem short-sighted, especially since republican 'deficit hawk' administrations have been responsible for most of the debt?

Republican Presidents (as well as Dems), aided and abetted by both Dems and Repubs in Congress, have spent more than they've taken in for several decades. If anyone here blames ONLY one party (or the other party), they are refusing to deal with reality. I tend to give the sitting president much of the blame because they submit budgets to Congress, but those same Congresscritters get a nice chunk of blame because they tend to tinker with the budget and send it back to the president to sign. If there is spending largesse, both sides are guilty. Hence G.W.'s massive spending means he was more guilty than anybody, but those on Congress who voted (with almost no fear of a veto) to pile on more debt are also to blame.

>On a different note, how does the deficit affect you personally?

It limits credit, which combined with a devalued dollar creates hindrances that all U.S. businesses have to live under. That means my employer, and that of most Americans, cannot hire more people, or pay present employers bigger salaries ... as they like. And yes, I'm assuming that businesses will actually pay more and hire more if the economy is doing well. ;^)

"Tax revenues have not fixed our deficit problems over the past 5-6 presidents because the politicians (of both political stripes) have spent whatever came into the federal coffers ... "

Well that and the tax cuts passed by Reagan and Bush. When taxes were raised during the Clinton administration we were in a position to build a surplus which Bush specifically sold his tax cuts as a way to prevent that. It is not just our imagination that tax cuts were passed specifically to build debt and thus prevent any future Democratic administration from passing things like health care reform. That fact is proven by their own words going all the way back to the Reagan adminstration.

When taxes were raised during the Clinton administration we were in a position to build a surplus

#227 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-02 04:09 PM

It wasn't just a tax increase, it was also the implementation of paygo (something that used to be important to Obama voters).

#224 Akat> Tax revenues have not fixed our deficit problems over the past 5-6 presidents because...

#227 Danni> Well that and tax cuts passed by Reagan and Bush.

Thank you for ignoring the main point I was making, and have made numerous times in the past. Whatever money flows into D.C. in the form of tax revenues, those in charge spend MORE. Tax cuts in and of themselves are only a side note. Until spending is brought under control, no amount of increased tax revenue will fix the problem.

Hint to Danni and Obama: CUT THE SPENDING!!


It limits credit, which combined with a devalued dollar creates hindrances that all U.S. businesses have to live under. That means my employer, and that of most Americans, cannot hire more people, or pay present employers bigger salaries ... as they like. And yes, I'm assuming that businesses will actually pay more and hire more if the economy is doing well. ;^)

#226 | Posted by AKat

Really? How does it affect credit? Are you saying that the employment problem is because of the deficit? That's quite a leap, considering most administrations since Nixon ran deficits.

Since they always lie, you'll be closer to the actual deficit if you double 1.6 trillion to 3.2 trillion. Foreigners have cut back buying American debt considerably, leaving the Federal Reserve to make up the difference. It's going to be interesting as that new money makes its way through the economy.

In basic national accounting terms, government deficits equal non-government savings surpluses.

Private holdings of government bonds also constitute an income source -- that is, the government interest payments on its outstanding debt constitute another avenue for stimulus. So when the government retires debt, it reduces private incomes -- just as when it runs budget surpluses, it constrains private-sector demand directly by reducing private income and access to adequate currency. Just ask any pensioner if he/she is happy when the income stream from annuities has declined.

Take away that debt, and you take away income. It is no coincidence that the budget surpluses of the Clinton years (wrongly trumpeted as a great fiscal triumph by President Obama) subsequently led to recessions: government budget surpluses ultimately restrict private sector demand and income growth and force greater reliance on private debt. Does anybody think it is a coincidence that two of the longest and largest periods of budget surpluses in America history -- the periods of 1997 to 2000 and 1927 to 1930 -- were followed by calamitous economic collapses?

so, as usual, the right is wrong

There is a real economy,one which produces tradable goods, then there is the imaginary economy, the one that flips stocks, bonds and companies and cries for bailouts when their gambles go sour. These greedfuckers produce no tradable goods or services and are nothing but a bunch of leaches that have destroyed our economy with bullshit economic theory. In their theory they are the foundation of our economy when in fact they are a service which depends on thriving productive sector in order to operate.

From the mouth of Obama

www.youtube.com

democrats are destined to bring this country to ruin

Comments are closed for this entry.


Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Copyright 2012 World Readable