And yes, it's stealthy.

Better video.

So what's your point?

The point is pointed enough to be called a pointy point.

"Claims have been..."

And studies show...

Dear Russia,
Congradulations on the developement of your Raptor class fighter.
Let me be clear, I said we're sorry.
Sincerely, President BaSquawk Obama.

And studies show...

And studies show what? Nothing.

The program is top secret.

All we have our their claims. However, their "claims" in the past have turned out to be 100% accurate.

So we can make a guess.

If one wants to deal in facts, then here is a fact to chew on.

The Raptor program is dead, killed by the Messiah.

This one is very much going to happen.

And there is something else coming along that will make hamburger out of THIS one. LOL

Living in a house of mud, sticks and goat shit

Stealing electricity for the laptop when his neighbor is away from home.

Picking shit from his ass with his left hand, because Allah commands it

proud to steal technology from crashed Predators, because it's the best Pakistan can do.

Ask a Paki scientist why Uranium deteriorates and you get "because Allah wills it!"

Pakistan is a gnat in the nostril of India .. something to blow into a tissue and throw away when it becomes too annoying

Cut pigpen some slack. He's busy cheerleading for yet another country not named Pakistan.

That little mongrel with his beaten wife syndrome is a one trick pony.

Cheerleading a plane that's 5 years away...

Vermin... WHAT on earth has this to do with Pakistan?

Why all the anger and bitterness? Don't shoot the messenger!

You don't like it that USA is now technically inferior in military equipment? That Americas best isn't good enough?

Why do you care? YOU deserted YOUR country. LOL

Cheerleading a plane that's 5 years away...

Look at Cripple shitting his pants already. LOL

I am not cheer-leading this plane, Cripple. I am only giving you the latest news from the world of aviation.

We finally got a glimpse into this top secret project and it looks it will turn into all that the designers hope to make it.

Pakistan is in no way interested in THIS plane. No sir. LOL

This plane is for India.

Now admit it Cripple... isn't this exciting? To be witness to the cutting edge in aviation?

Better than moping in your wheelchair all day, let me tell you.

To be witness to the cutting edge in aviation?

#13 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-01-29 09:56 AM | Reply

Pigpen,
You're not very bright. Cutting edge in aviation?
1. They are bragging that this "cutting edg aviation" is 5 years away.
2. They're trying to compare it to a plane we've already built
3. The F22 production model came out on 1997...These jamokes just released theirs.

You backwards little thing.

Living in a house of mud, sticks and goat shit
#9 | Posted by vernon

Thanks for the update, son.
Next time, please send a card with a pretty pitcher, 'kay?
Love,
~The Family

Pigpen,
You're not very bright. Cutting edge in aviation?

Yes, Cripple, yes! You have to realize that the US is closing shop. And it's stupid F-22 is more a hanger queen than a real fighter.

Too expensive to risk in a fight and with still too many bugs to iron out.

The F-22 is beyond your own capabilities. So it's getting axed.

The T-50 is well on it's way however with none of the problems of your "hanger queen".

You backwards little Cripple. LOL

The best the US could do in the air.. theoretically... is no longer any good.

Messiah is just plain bad luck, isn't he? LOL

Only a 3rd world mongrel could possibly think this is cutting edge.

What don't you get pigpen? The Russians are the ones trying to favorably compare their plane (the one that won't be out for 5 years) with our plane (the one that's been around since 1997...).

You probably believe a Black and White TV set is cutting edge.

As usual, you've gotten beaten down by reality. It won't stop you from serial posting, or smelling like an Assorted Sub, but we both know you've been put in your place, again.

Now, unsuccessfully try to figure out some way to save face.

In 5 years, the F-22 would've got all it's troubles fixed perhaps.... but no. Messiah will end the F-22.

Leaving you with... nothing... except 5th gen fighters like the T-50 flying over your heads, invisible to your radar.

Only a 3rd world mongrel could possibly think this is cutting edge.

But it is Cripple, it is! LOL

The Russians are the ones trying to favorably compare their plane (the one that won't be out for 5 years)

The Russian plane will be out in 5 years.

Your plane will be dead in 5 years. Messiah will
see to that.

So, see Cripple, it doesn't matter if you made something in 1997. Even that still doesn't work right. LOL

Now, unsuccessfully try to figure out some way to save face.

This has nothing to do with ME Cripple... it has everything to do with YOU. LOL

Boys and Girls! This is the most 101 has said in months now.

Usually he just posts a sentence or two.

He is getting seriously worked up. LOL

Poor Cripple.

Let us let him have the last word, shall we?

And then we can leave him to his bitterness. LOL

101.. you have the floor, my man!

Regardless of crap being thrown back and forth, the fact is that Russia and China have 12 fighter aircraft factories running. The US has..wait for it....one.

'Splain to me why we expect to fight a war with Russia?

Seriously, there is no margin in global war, but plenty to be made doing the small engagements like...

You don't actually think Russia and China plan to keep all those fighters, do you? Perhaps a few oil-rich countries like Iran, Jordan, and Venezuela would like a few?

OK, and what do you expect they will do with them?

OK, and what do you expect they will do with them?

Ok, for example, if Iran gets that plane, all that talk of "Israel is gonna clean your clock" will be turned into a joke.

They will be able to keep anyone out if they get enough of these planes.

You shouldn't think of a weapon like something that is going to be used or not necessarily.... you should think of it as a chess piece.

You position the weapon... or chess piece... in a way that limits the options of the opponent.

That is what makes hi-tech weapons and nukes and missiles and shot so valuable... you use them to limit the others' options.

What are they going to do with them? Interesting that another thread may very well lend some discussion on that point.

This plane has India as a financial partner. They put half the money in it (but didn't do any of the work).

They will get the two-seater "export" version with scaled down avionics.

However there is something else out there that will make this plane look like a joke.

The Chinese JXX program, in which Pakistan is a partner.

As pointed out before, the trend is clear.

Messiah has pulled a number on you from which your air-force will never recover.

I am verry well aware that weapon systems are "chess pieces" as you say. But the truth of the matter is Iran is not going to attack Israel. ( not while they can stand behind Uncle Sam at any rate)

Secondly, why would they do such a thing?

When has Iran ever been belligerent?

It would limit Israel's ability to threaten Iran's nuclear ambitions is what I think Tosser's getting at.

A nuclear Iran might be inevitible.

inevitable*

"When has Iran ever been belligerent?"

480BC?

But the truth of the matter is Iran is not going to attack Israel.

I never said they would.

It would limit Israel's ability to threaten Iran's nuclear ambitions is what I think Tosser's getting at.

A nuclear Iran might be inevitible.

Exactly!

"A nuclear Iran might be inevitible."

and?

Pakistan is coming out with some incredibly cutting edge technology. It's called the Atari 2600, and it's awesome.
-SaladTosser

A nuclear Iran might be inevitible.

#32 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-01-29 12:53 PM | Reply

And if this is the case they won't need a "high speed" fighter jet.

Regardless, you have to realize that this plane won't even be in production for 5 years. They're so far behind it's not even funny.

Pakistan is coming out with some incredibly cutting edge technology. It's called the Atari 2600, and it's awesome.
-SaladTosser

Hey, Cripple is back!

Hey, I told you to have the last word... why didn't you open your mouth then and let us have your "expert military opinion"? LOL

They're so far behind it's not even funny.

On 21 July 2009, the United States Senate voted in favor of ending F-22 production,[57][58] in the face of intense lobbying by President Obama against funding the planes, and threats to sign what would have been his first veto.

Oops!

The US is ending it's 5th gen fighter program... but that's OK since it never worked right anyway.

You don't need to be an expert on anything to know that a plane that won't even be produced until 5 years from now is not cutting edge technology when it's purpose is to rival what we have had on the runway for years now.

It's so simple, yet a caveman can't understand it.

when it's purpose is to rival what we have had on the runway for years now.

It purpose is not to rival your buggy plane that is too expensive to risk on a mission.

Nobody takes your achievements seriously since you have decided to end funding for your programs.

Funny... I thought losing your legs would leave more blood for your brains....

Apparently not. LOL

It's so simple, yet a caveman can't understand it.
#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne | Flag: Needs Simpler Explanation

You don't need to be an expert on anything

But you do need basic understanding of how programs are funded and developed, Cripple.

And you need common sense.

Tell you what.... try standing on your head. Maybe that will increase the blood flow to your brain? LOL

"It's so simple, yet a caveman can't understand it."

Trying using extracts from berries and bark to paint a picture on the wall of his mud hut for him.

Now wait for it.... Cripple is going to come back denying reality once more. LOL

Wait for it....

Oh, 101's other identity.. Man-Child chimed in!

Boys and Girls! He doesn't get it either. LOL

It's OK Sully... we don't expect a chicano who works in a cubicle to get it at all.

Tosser's like a dirty dusty bobblehead. You walk in to a thread, smack him, and watch as he bounces around serial posting uncontrollably.

I think the pilot-operated fighter is becoming a bit obsolete.

The Raptor's G-capabilities are far more than what the human body can withstand. It can never be flown to its full potential by a human pilot.

It has in-flight computers preventing the pilot from engaging in over-G manuevers.

If it's full capabilities can't be exploited, what is the point of having it THAT capable?

My point being, Russia's claims that it'll turn the Raptor into hamburger meat are just stupid, unless their new plane is a remote-controlled drone.

What makes the Raptor SO deadly is its combination of speed (it can cruise above MACH 1 without using the after-burner), agility AND stealth. The Eurofighter may be as capable in a true dog-fight, but the Raptor would have it shot down before the pilot of the Eurofighter even knew what hit him - he wouldn't be able to see the Raptor on radar.

As for Tosser's claims about our reliance on 5th generation fighters....The modular F-35 is set to fully replace the F-15, F-16 and certain iterations of the F/A-18 by 2025. The air Force and Navy have set standards that require this plane to be 4-times more capable than those planes it is replacing and at a considerably lower cost than the Raptor. It is also expected to replace the A-10, but I don't see that happening. There is no way the F-35 could EVER be anything as close as an effective ground-support plane than the Warthog.

You walk in to a thread, smack him

As if you can swat a fly even. LOL

I told you guys he will be back in denial mode!

"I think the pilot-operated fighter is becoming a bit obsolete. "

Countries that can produce top of the line stuff never fight each other. Other countries can't maintain them. And fighters mean nothing when faced with the possibility of all out nuclear war when you are talking about conflicts between major powers. If a major power is fighting anyone else, the gap in technology is already decades apart.

It us probably still worth developing the new technology for a variety of reasons but only a fool would think having the best jet fighter means all that much these days.

Claims have been made...

Claims like these are always being made, usually by people who don't know enough to be making them or people who use their claims to advance very specific goals.

While the discontinuation of the Raptor program was a mistake, it is not the uncorrectable catastrophe Tosser thinks it is. The military-industrial complex is alive and well in the US.

Sully,

Don't forget about cost.

With the development of the F-15 it was all about quality over quantity.

Well, that changed when our intelligence services learned the sheer quantity of Russian MiG's.

This is precisely what lead to the development of the F-16 for the airforce and the F/A-18 for the navy - our military needed cheaper, 'high'value' planes.

It's also why the not-particularly-capable Harrier enjoyed so much success, especially abroad. With its verticle takeoff capabilities, a NIMITZ-class carrier isn't needed when deploying them.

Both planes have proven to be very successful.

it is not the uncorrectable catastrophe Tosser thinks it is.

On the face of it, it isn't.

"This is precisely what lead to the development of the F-16 for the airforce and the F/A-18 for the navy - our military needed cheaper, 'high'value' planes."

That's a good point and I really wasn't trying to contradict that line of thinking. If you think realistically about who we are likely to fight, chances are they won't have an airforce at all or if they do, it will be small, undertrained and most likely unwilling to engage us in the air. We don't need to be able to shoot down the best or even the very good. There is no sense wasting money building equipment for that purpose. But I do think developing new techology, if not mass-producing it, is a worthwhile endeavor.

That's cool, Tosser-you guys can blow your wad on an overpriced Russian Stealth Fighter.

In order to fight the Raptors we have-you have to find them-unless you plan on firing every weapon you have at EVERY bird, bug swarm, thick cloud, temperature inversion-until you run out of ammo(that might not work as well as you'd like)then you'll bankrupt yourselves trying to get more-only to waste that firing at everything that moves.

you guys can blow your wad on an overpriced Russian Stealth Fighter.

No, we are not getting this plane. No thanks.

In order to fight the Raptors we have

Pakistan has no plans to fight the US... we are allies and friends! LOL

"In order to fight the Raptors we have-you have to find them-unless you plan on firing every weapon you have at EVERY bird, bug swarm, thick cloud, temperature inversion-until you run out of ammo(that might not work as well as you'd like)then you'll bankrupt yourselves trying to get more-only to waste that firing at everything that moves."

When less technologically advanced nations buy top of the line hardware from the more developed parts of the world, they usually don't have many people capable of correctly operating and maintaining the equipment. They don't have proper access to parts either. The equipment ends up sitting around unused. This has been demonstrated over and over.

When less technologically advanced nations buy top of the line hardware from the more developed parts of the world, they usually don't have many people capable of correctly operating and maintaining the equipment. They don't have proper access to parts either. The equipment ends up sitting around unused. This has been demonstrated over and over.

That is what I expect to happen when India gets this plane.

Even their SU30-MKI is grounded because of lack of spares. LOL

and?

#36 | Posted by Salaryman at 2010-01-29 12:57 PM

LOL!

The F-35 is the last manned fighter the US will build. The future will be drones which will be lighter, cheaper, easier to build and far more maneuverable. Manned fighters will have zero chance.

#64 | Posted by furio

I made the same point up-thread.

Having said that, don't be so sure of yourself. Back in the '50's it was believed that the era of dog-fighting was over. Well, we see how well that prediction turned out. Also, the A-10 was much-maligned because it was believed that all fighter and attack plans needed to be high-flying and fast-flying. That one proved wrong also.

When was the last time an American plane was engaged in an actual dog fight?

And how long until we just go ahead and drone out our tanks?

When was the last time an American plane was engaged in an actual dog fight?

In the Persian Gulf, a Saudi f-15 shot down an Iranian F-4.

Pakistani F-16s shot down many Russian airforce planes intruding into Pakistan.

Many dogfights there.

Many more examples.

"Pakistani F-16s shot down many Russian airforce planes intruding into Pakistan."

How many? When?

How many? When?

During the Afghan war, of course.

I don't exactly remember how many, but it was more than a few.

We "locked on" more than 700 times but were only allowed to shoot if we were sure the wreckage would fall inside Pakistan, not Afghanistan.

Russians fly straight for you and then turn away at the last second.

Still, a few miscalculated and came over the border and got creamed.

One, Alexander Rutskoi (future Russian deputy president or something) got locked on and got fired at. His Mig was so fast he still managed to cross into Afghanistan after we fired at him. He blew in Afghan airspace and was captured by them.

They were going to take him apart, but we got them to give him to us. He was very thankful.

Found it...

Russian and Afghan aircraft kills.

"The future will be drones which will be lighter, cheaper, easier to build and far more maneuverable. Manned fighters will have zero chance."

This what predicted in that shitty 80's movie where Chevey Chase is an arms dealer and his partner was Gregory Hines. Can't remember the name.....

"The future will be drones which will be lighter, cheaper, easier to build and far more maneuverable. Manned fighters will have zero chance."

Drones will have a very deep role now; but manned fighters will remain. Robots ain't taking over. They're gonna be our R2-D2 to the pilot's flying.

This what predicted in that shitty 80's movie where Chevey Chase is an arms dealer and his partner was Gregory Hines. Can't remember the name.....

Forget Chevy Chase - the only 80's movie you have to look for is Star Wars. I can imagine a pack of drones sniffing out the target and then pilots going in for the kill - like now.

R2-D2 won't be doing battlefield maintenance - he'll be flying battlefield reconnaisance.

Russian and Chinese related videos (v. v. hilarious) coming in a few hours.

"Can't remember the name..."

Deal of the Century

Luckup

Hey, you don't get too many Kelly Johnsons.

Corrections:

1) Of course it's the same wingtip. Different captures - Tosser found it as a pic - I found it in my Second Most Favourite Childhood Music Video (Yes, strange childhood, spent enjoying Cold War like Propaganda on the side >_< - Most Favourite is Pakistani Bahria of which there is only a grainy and sketch copy available online)

2) They will be Russian and Chinese Air Force related vid's. Former (sort of) Commie countries that have some v. v. interesting AF developments. Must go search for them.

Ask a Paki scientist why Uranium deteriorates and you get "because Allah wills it!"
-Vermin

Favourite is Pakistani Bahria

This old song from the 80s?