Wow! I can't wait to spend 58K to make $17 ! Yeeehaaww!

Doesn't sound like much now, but they've also earned $36K in federal and state tax rebates.

With them producing their own electricity and continuing to sell the carbon credits, they could reach a break-even point sooner than you may think.

This is an emerging market to keep an eye on.

#1 | Posted by American1st

FF. LMAO

which they can continue to sell annually for as long as anyone will buy them.

The panels won't even create enough electricity to power the house it's mounted to. Who's stupid enough to buy a "carbon credit"? I'm all for economical ways to supply energy, but selling "credits" is sheer bullshit. They're "created" from nothing.

I guess all they have to do now is find like-minded morons to buy their credits...

The Catholic Church was selling 'carbon credits' 500 years ago ...

The Catholic Church was selling 'carbon credits' 500 years ago ...

They had to since Henry VIII's daughter, (Bloody) Mary I was burning so many non-Catholics at the stake. They had to counteract all that CO2 somehow!

The parallels are amazing.

Indulgences could not be bartered; they had to be purchased with cash. So, when indulgence dealers entered a town they would set up tables to buy things from people; clothes, tools, grain, livestock.

The people would then take their cash to another table and buy an indulgence.

So at the end of the day the dealers left with everything -- clothes, livestock, and all the money they had brought with them.

The fools in the village had a piece of paper that absolved them of their carbon footprint, er, sins. Guilt assuaged.

I actually thought of a clever way to cash in on this opportunity to fleece people who are ashamed of their existence. But I run an honest business.

This is an emerging market to keep an eye on.

#2 | Posted by hoser

I'd have to agree, Hoser, as long as a person remains the hos-er, and doesn't become the hos-ee...

Carbon Credits, what a piece of genius. Are these the same people who bought pet rocks?

So, who bought the credit, and what are they going to do with it?

(lol)

Their house doesn't even look like it's worth $58,000.

Oh well. I guess it's better than buying lottery tickets. Unless you're one of the blue states--they need you to buy lottery tickets.

#9 | Posted by American1st at 2010-01-28 06:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

That's true, very true.

I was flabbergasted by Vernon's link above. Looking further, the Treasure House of Merit the Catholics created appears to be exactly where carbon trading process was ripped from:

Wow! I can't wait to spend 58K to make $17 ! Yeeehaaww!

Did you even read the article? I doubt it from the dumb comment you posted.

A federal tax credit will cover nearly $18,000, and a Pennsylvania rebate check has already arrived for another $18,000. They could net as much as $2,700 in the first year selling renewable energy certificates, which they can continue to sell annually for as long as anyone will buy them. They expect to recoup their investment within six years. At that point, they'll be spending nothing on electricity (they had spent $80-$120 a month) and they'll still be earning money from their renewable energy certificates, which power companies buy to meet government mandates.

A federal tax credit will cover nearly $18,000, and a Pennsylvania rebate check has already arrived for another $18,000.

OK, so the US taxpayer is on the hook for 18k, and the PA taxpayer for an additional 18k. Who's going to pay that back?

They could net as much as $2,700 in the first year selling renewable energy certificates, which they can continue to sell annually for as long as anyone will buy them.

FTA...Yes, it's a voluntary market. That means that individuals and companies are purchasing these types of credits because they want to.

They expect to recoup their investment within six years. At that point, they'll be spending nothing on electricity (they had spent $80-$120 a month)

Again, it's all voluntary. Unless useless fucks like you mandate it...oh. yeah...and they'll still be earning money from their renewable energy certificates, which power companies buy to meet government mandates.

Sounds like the beginning of another governmental agency designed to screw the people over....again.

wow

fringer masturbation

hahahahah

We have a solar energy credit here in Louisiana. Couple that credit with the fed solar credit, along with state and fed new markets credits and you have a project that is 80% funded by state and federal governments.

Oh and Pa can really afford to pay tax credits heh??????????

Our state budget is in the RED, and the budget is in shambles!!!!!

Massive Pennsylvania deficit forecast by top lawmakers

See: Recessions and unemployment mean lower tax revenues

Carbon credits are a scam. Solar power, where practicle, is a good thing. I looked into a company called Oasis Montana for my last house. If they want to really get people moving in this direction, the technology is going to have to be improved, simplified and affordable. Persoanlly, I can see the Technology working somewhere like So-Cal or Montana. But the weather in the Southeast is too unpredictable and the fuel cell technology just ain't good enough yet. I look forward to the day when it is.

A couple use solar power to get off the grid?

Pays fer itself in 6 years?

Sweet deal.

Without government incentives this would never have happened.

Be Well.

A couple use solar power to get off the grid?

Did it say that in the article?

Pays fer itself in 6 years?

Did it say that, too?

No, on both counts, what it did say was that they could sell imaginary permission to like-minded idiots for money on a voluntary basis, and, if they were successful at finding said fools, they could pay back what they invested. That doesn't include the 36k of state and federal taxpayers money.

Sweet deal.

Without government incentives this would never have happened.

Why is the government ponying up 36 k of taxpayers money for this? What about those of us who feel like the government needs to stop wasting our money, that we've not even earned yet?

This is a fool's errand of the highest order.

Pays fer itself in 6 years

My FB is completely off the grid because of wind and solar with the exception of two or three weeks in the summer. She uses a wood burning stove in the winter, however. If not, she'd probably use $50 or so more grid power.

The more I drive in rural Texas, the more solar and wind generators I see -- far more than I see in other states. THe state itself is well on track to have 25% of their power generated with renewable resources by 2013. They currently use more wind power for electricity than the next 6 states (yes, including CA) combined. I guess that's what people like fucked up Texans do -- they become self-sufficient. What assholes.

58000-36000=22000

May get up to 2700 (a year)
Save 80 to 120 amonth in bills =960 to 1440 a year

best case
2700 + 1440 = 4140 a year times 6 = 24840

worst case
0 + 960 = 960 a year divided into 22000 = 22.916 years

Problem solar panels degrade. So you have to include replacement cost and maintenance.

A friend at work plugged his info in to a solar and wind site to see how long payoff would be .... 550 to 750 years (depending on system). Batteries are expensive. This included repair/replacement and all maintenance (paying someone else).

This is an emerging market to keep an eye on

if the government props it up with billions of dollars.

Wow! I can't wait to spend 58K to make $17 ! Yeeehaaww!

#1 | Posted by American1st at 2010-01-27 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did you read the article?

COMMON

Of course he didn't, or he'd have read 80% is covered by government incentives.

Not to count the savings in utility bills over time ...

Who's going to pay that back?

I always love it when righty cheerleaders whip that one out. Who's gonna pay for Iraq? Who is gonna pay for Medicare Part D? Who is gonna pay for the tax cuts enacted in 2001?

Amazing how the right suddenly become deficit hawks when it is the left calling the shots.

Why is the government ponying up 36 k of taxpayers money for this?

Why is the government paying $2 trillion with a T for Iraq?

Investing in renewable energy sources is what is going to revitalize this country.

Texas knows it.

Too bad dinosaurs like you are too fixated on partisan bullshit to see what is in the best interest of the nation.

Ya, JIMMY

Two tax cuts for the wealthy
+
Two wars
+
Medicare Part D
=
$700 a year in debt service payments + lost tax revenues (also due to unemployment) + unfunded programs + priviatization of government services that cost more than they formerly did

=

OUR CURRENT ANNUAL DEFICIT

Right wingers think denial is a river in Eypt

Makes me wonder if a poll of Catholics would reveal their absolute acceptance of carbon trading.

#13 | Posted by hoser at 2010-01-28 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag: Makes me wonder if this dude understands the concept of time

Tax cuts don't cost anything! It's our money to begin with

Sounds like a load of crap to me. I'd be skeptical of it working anywhere but AZ, least of all the Midwest and not in Alaska. That's a lot of square footage they have there. To say they've got enough to run appliances, heaters, air cond, dishwashers, multiple TVS, stereos, computers, etc. with enough power to spare for 2-3 weeks of clouds and rain, and no dependence on electricity...well, I'd like to sell them some oceanfront property in AZ.

#26 | Posted by COMMONSENSE #27 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY #28 | Posted by JimmyWallback

Collective recto-cranial inversion sufferers.

(You've all got your heads up your asses)

#29 | Posted by JimmyWallback #30 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Both of you dumbfucks want to talk about deficits while trying to argue the case for MORE spending?

You two must be suffering from connective recto-cranial inversion.

(ya got yer heads up each others ass.)

If those stupid MFers can get a carbon credit for a dumb solar panel then I should get a credit for lettinfg my grass grow and my dog Fido should get a carbon credit for fixing carbon everytime he shits in the backyard.

"$36K in federal and state tax rebates."

Stay on track, folks...that's tax-payer dollars paying these folks to take the burden off the power grid with OUR money. Carbon credits...phooey!

I'd rather see accessible, state funded, mandatory recycling programs for every thing from plastics to batteries...and give tax breaks to manufacturers that use recycled products from all the junk that stupid wally world and $1 store shoppers buy/use/toss within a week...and fine folks if they fail to recycle.

Now, there's something that benefits all of us right now and future generations, too.

Born and raised about an hours drive from Harrisburg. PA is not the state to rely on solar power (I know the weather there) - best try New Mexico, Arizona, etc. This foolish couple obviously bought a 'bill of goods' from a company pushing their product. they have my pity.

#37 | Posted by MSgt at 2010-01-29 01:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

Allentown?

I saw Diamond Dallas Paige give the Diamond cutter to a fat woman in Allehtown. Then later the fat lady's boyfriend gave the Stone Cold stunner to Diamond Dallas Paige. It turned out that Diamond Dallas Paige's girlfriend was cheating on him with the fat lady

No way they heat with electricity in PA for 80-120.

I looked into solar, but I need to many kw for it to be cost effective, The wind rating is too low on most for my insurance to cover them.

#26 | Posted by COMMONSENSE #27 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY #28 | Posted by JimmyWallback

Collective recto-cranial inversion sufferers.

(You've all got your heads up your asses)

#29 | Posted by JimmyWallback #30 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Both of you dumbfucks want to talk about deficits while trying to argue the case for MORE spending?

You two must be suffering from connective recto-cranial inversion.

(ya got yer heads up each others ass.)

#34 | Posted by American1st at 2010-01-28 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's quite a strecth, even for you. All I asked was if you had read the article.

It explains that you wouldn't make just $17 dollars back as you had implied. I said nothing about wanting to talk deficits' as you claimed. I only wanted to point that you were wrong. Seems you are again.

You helped prove that. Thank you.

I said nothing about wanting to talk deficits' as you claimed.

#41 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

I didn't include you in my "talk deficit" remark, dipshit.

I only wanted to point that you were wrong. Seems you are again.

You helped prove that. Thank you.

FLAG: Ultimate self-retorting retort

I always love it when righty cheerleaders whip that one out. Who's gonna pay for Iraq? Who is gonna pay for Medicare Part D? Who is gonna pay for the tax cuts enacted in 2001?

Amazing how the right suddenly become deficit hawks when it is the left calling the shots.

#28 | Posted by JimmyWallback at 2010-01-28 08:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

I always love it when Lefty Idiots say that because Republicans are wretched, lying thieves, then it's their right to be equally craven.

Is that what you stand up for Jimmy? For the right to be as crappy as Republicans?

I live in an area that has a lot of solar powered homes here in Hawaii. You would think that is it sunny all day long here but nothing could be further then the truth. The sun shines nearly every morning until about noon and the cloud cover sets in from mountain convection currents. The solar systems work just fine. The average system is around $5000 to $10000. Most people use propane for cooking and refrigeration. I'm on the grid because I run a wood shop half the day (I build and restore stringed instruments) and need the power tools to make woodworking profitable, but were it not for that I would definitely go solar.

BTW...tax credits are not welfare. It's our money to begin with.

Carbon credits are a great way to entice companies to be responsible. Unchecked capitalism is for greedy mindless twits with patriotic user names.

The solar systems work just fine. The average system is around $5000 to $10000.

Personal insults aside (if you can), do you have any explanation as to why the system these folks had installed cost 58K? Couldn't have anything to do with the government financing the bulk of it, eh? If folks want solar, fine. I'm just against taxpayers money paying for it.

So they will be made whole in 6 years. Penn. and the US government are in such a deep hole when will they be made whole?

I'm just against taxpayers money paying for it.

Well that's a twist. A patriotic conservative that thinks a tax break is welfare, like it is going to cost him because he is too stupid to invest in his own system. I thought all you economic whiz kiddies were all for lower taxes, or is that only for something you make a massive profit on when somebody else has to pay an unfair for that profit?

When tax breaks are offered for things that benefit us, all these conservatives suddenly become a herd of turkeys (or is a flock? Same smell anyway).

The average system is around $5000 to $10000.

Maybe for 5kw. Most people need 20. I was looking at 38k + a 30% tax break and installing it myself. The life expectancy and the break even date were about the same. I'll stick with Dominion Power with a 20kw Onan as backup. Solar is not cost effective in NC unless you are just trying to heat your pool.

Wow, this is just stupid.

Democrats should be using all this Government money to start wars with more Middle Eastern nations.

Democrats should stop trying to fix the work the conservatives have done so tirelessly in driving our country into the ground from 2000-2008.

They worked really hard to bring the Starve the Beast mentality to fruition, and now here we are trying to to make the government viable again.

Republicans are filthy, short sighted, and devoid of morality. A form of life lower than the cockroach. The manifestation of evil in a world that could one day be good.

They've killed thousands of our children in stupid, ill managed and ill conceived wars. They have left the nation much worse off for our children.

And now, now that America has refuted them in the last election, they still carry on Satan's work, even in the minority, they are able to use the dirtiest of tactics to make sure that America will NOT recover.

You people are a fucking disgrace. There is no warm place for souls like yours when you die. And I wish nothing but terrible, painful death to all of those who participate in this continued rape of America and our political system, and the future of our children.

May you all wake up in hell as 10 year old boys from the Dominican Republic, locked in a cage with your father who never was, Rush Limbaugh, who has an enchanted bottle of non prescription viagra that never runs out.

#38 | POSTED BY HOSER AT 2010-01-29 02:28 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

"Allentown?"

York.

and they'll still be earning money from their renewable energy certificates, which power companies buy to meet government mandates.

I didn't know that was the new law of the land.

Without government incentives this would never have happened.

#21 | Posted by dethspud

You are right. There is no way it will pay off by itself.

So my tax dollars are being given to this couple for no GOOD reason at all. Money pissed down a rat hole.

you have a project that is 80% funded by state and federal governments.

#17 | Posted by taxman at 2010-01-28 05:29 PM

you have a project that is 80% funded by taxpayer dollars (yours, mine and everybody else who actually pays taxes).

FTFY

#52 | Posted by Sniper

Exactly!

Alternative sources of energy should not be embraced until they are developed to a point where they are truly competitive WITHOUT being propped up. Setting aside the unconstitutionality of this type of spending (at a federal level), all we are doing is propping up an inferior product which only stalls further development - why bother dumping more into R&D when we can, through the force of government, rape the American taxpayer of their hard-earned money in order to make our product competitive on the market?

Maybe for 5kw. Most people need 20.

Need and want are two separate issues. Have you ever heard of energy efficient devices? How about mechanical can openers. I have one that is faster and easier to use then the lame Black and Decker one I used to own. All you need to do is throw out the most useless crap you spent your money on, like the electric tooth brush and the dishwasher. How about that electric towel warmer? Good grief, grow some hair on those balls!

"How about that electric towel warmer?"

Not to mention the electric-cooled pony harness with fuel injection.

Alternative sources of energy should not be embraced until they are developed to a point where they are truly competitive WITHOUT being propped up.

They already are but people in general are too stupid and lazy to maintain them.

Anyway comments like the #52 by the ignorant sniper just proves my point that republicans will bitch about tax breaks if they are too stupid to take advantage of them. The government is not subsidizing the solar systems, it is allowing those who complain the loudest about over taxation to keep some of that money if they use it for conservation, a foreign word to conservatives.

Without government incentives this would never have happened.

Which means there is no real market or incentive for anyone to do it.

So my tax dollars are being given to this couple for no GOOD reason at all.

I think energy independence is as good of a reason to spend money as anything....and better than most.

What if every home had 5-10K of solar power? What if the cells, batteries, converters, trackers were made in America?

Paying taxes doesn't mean every penny in the treasury was borne on your back. The family in this story pays taxes too. I'd guess they've paid more in their lifetime than they'll receive for this upgrade. It is as much their money as anyone else's.

They saved money while paying their share of taxes and used their savings to improve their investment, earning potential, family, and community. If the government can't help with that, then What The Hell should they spend on? Another aircraft carrier? Another .04% off stock dividends? Another blank check to Goldman Sacs? More (imaginary) "intrest" payments to the Fed?

Some of you have some seriously fucked-up priorities.

Some of you have some seriously fucked-up priorities

So, as long as you think the unconsitutional spending of treasury dollars is going toward a worthy cause it's OK then?

I think energy independence is as good of a reason to spend money as anything....and better than most.

priorities.

So how is bankrupting the American taxpayer to support something extremly expensive good?

Why don't you just burn $50 bills in your fireplace?

Maybe for 5kw. Most people need 20.

Need and want are two separate issues. Have you ever heard of energy efficient devices? How about mechanical can openers. I have one that is faster and easier to use then the lame Black and Decker one I used to own. All you need to do is throw out the most useless crap you spent your money on, like the electric tooth brush and the dishwasher. How about that electric towel warmer? Good grief, grow some hair on those balls!

#56 | Posted by RingMaster

Sorry, I guess I should rephrase that. If you have electric water heater, electric heat pumps/AC, electric cloths dryers, refrigerators, freezers, TVs, and a wife you need 20 Kw minimum. That is unless you like explaining to her that she can't dry cloths and cook dinner at the same time. Yes you can light your house with solar, run ceiling fans and a few small appliances. It's just a bad investment.

It would make much more sense for any federal subsidies to go to improving the product and help to start producing the solar technology here instead of Europe. Then all would have an opportunity to benefit and the money spent would be spent here. Jobs would be created here. The money spent on solar panels would eventually find it's way into American companies instead of German ones. Simply propping up inferior technology is senseless. As is, only the European manufacturers and those with enough money to front such an undertaking will benefit. Main street will ultimately pay the bill while seeing no benefit.

They saved money while paying their share of taxes and used their savings to improve their investment...

#60 | Posted by Blue Sky

I'd check with your local real estate agent before saying that. Any solar other than a pool heater actually make it harder to move here. They aren't covered by insurance because they don't meet the 120mp wind codes we have. But, if you want to spend 60k on something you can't insure....

And don't forget about those pesky home owner's associations. Ol' Ted Kennedy raised all kinds of hell when someone wanted to put up a windmill in his neighborhood. He used the full weight of his name and family to keep that from happening.

He used his full weight....My god! He weighed a ton!

Here's today's "If an atomic bomb goes off under your bed, will you hear it" line:

"Ol' Ted Kennedy raised all kinds of hell when someone wanted to put up a windmill in his neighborhood."

That windmill plus 129 more clustered in a 24-square-mile area.

So what your saying is that "saving the environment" is good just as long as it doesn't block a fat hypocrits view?

"That windmill plus 129 more clustered in a 24-square-mile area."

Hardly a justification for NIMBY Kennedy.

"He used his full weight....My god! He weighed a ton!"

Flash back to the "Woman Crushes Beau" article for visual....

That windmill plus 129 more clustered in a 24-square-mile area.

yeah, that is how it works if it is going to be done efficiently.

He could have object all he wanted but he should have shut his piehole on alternative energy if he didn't want them.

.....and his nephew.

That windmill plus 129 more clustered in a 24-square-mile area.

#68 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Their looking at doing the same thing in the sound just south of us. I think they wanted to do about 60. The environmentalist are the ones fighting it.