Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Friday, January 29, 2010

Oregon's voters approved a $727 million tax increase to help close a $4 billion hole that the U.S. recession opened in the state's budget. Oregonians voted to keep taxes enacted by Democratic Governor Ted Kulongoski in July, according to a count of ballots cast by more than half of the state's registered voters. Measure 66, which raises taxes on households earning $250,000 or more, passed by 54 percent. Measure 67, which increases corporate levies, garnered favor of 53 percent.

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

2008

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

Thank you Oregon. Now politicians in other states will want to do the same! Soak the rich! That is a very popular way of solving our problems, soak the rich! And while everyone screams about wanting jobs, the voters of Oregon increase the tax burdern on their business, killing jobs.

Good job Oregon. Greedy Fuckers deserve to pay high taxes.

This is an interesting experiment. Let's just see how this turns out.

I hope businesses run out of Oregon and take their jobs to other states wwhere they are not fucked up the ass with taxes.

But remember, supply side economics don't work. So there is no way it could have negative effects on anyone else. After all it worked so well for clinton.

I hope every state adopts this plan. Causing all the greedy republicans to go under.

The ones who are greedy are local and state government who refuse to cut government spending and instead keep coming to the voters for more and more money.

I hope every state adopts this plan. Causing all the greedy republicans to go under.

#6 | Posted by jackass

Can you eat hope?

Good job Oregon. Greedy Fuckers deserve to pay high taxes.

#2 | Posted by jackass

Spoken like a true uneducated factory worker with no hopes of ever being wealthy.

Top earners need to have their wealth redistributed. Oregon is doing that.

"Spoken like a true uneducated factory worker"

You think he is actually employed?

Good job Oregon. Greedy Fuckers deserve to pay high taxes.

#2 | Posted by jackass

Spoken like a true uneducated factory worker with no hopes of ever being wealthy.

#9 | Posted by timbci

These two caricatures are polar opposites, but very similar...........

These two caricatures are polar opposites, but very similar...........

I noted that too and have even wondered if they are the same person. I wouldn't put it past ja to set up an account to argue with himself from since he is largely ignored anymore.

You think he is actually employed?

#11 | Posted by salamandagator at 2010-01-27 01:03 PM |

Yes I am employed. I want and need entitlements though.

I noted that too and have even wondered if they are the same person. I wouldn't put it past ja to set up an account to argue with himself from since he is largely ignored anymore.

#13 | Posted by goatman

Sorry nope Loser. Only person I ever see want to engage in debate with you is Bob. I checked out your webpage and I was unimpressed. You look like a fat slob. Try hitting the gym.

I checked out your webpage and I was unimpressed.

Oh dear. Your opinion means so much to me. Back to the drawing board

You look like a fat slob.

I am

I think I'll just call you weakman.

Fine with me

I hope businesses run out of Oregon

Yep, maybe all the restaurants can open for business in Nevada or Texas where there is no income tax.

Short term gain, long term loss - but then when does the govt ever look to the long view?

From reading the article this isn't a large enough increase to drive anyone out of the state or even seriously hurt anyone. Somehow states have to raise money, I know that goes against the rabid Libertarians who think taxes are theft but if you don't like taxes move to Sudan. I hear they have very low rates.

Oh that's OK, if we keep going on this road, we won't need to go to Sudan, we will become Sudan, or at least Zimbabwe (or however the heck you spell it).

Also you fail to understand that someone has to oppose taxes, otherwise if everyone agreed to raise their taxes all the time, governments would just raise taxes all the time. It has to be hard for governments to raise taxes. Therefore, a healthy and strong opposition to taxes is necessary. Whenever I get a chance to vote on taxes, I always vote no, on principle and because somebody has to do it.

"From reading the article this isn't a large enough increase to drive anyone out of the state"

Don't worry this knife is not long enough to do any serious damage, so i assume that it would be okay to stab you in the kneecaps a few times, right?


Oh that's OK, if we keep going on this road, we won't need to go to Sudan, we will become Sudan, or at least Zimbabwe (or however the heck you spell it).

#22 | Posted by member2586

Oh really? What's the tax rate on top income earners in Sudan? I'll give you a hint: it's lower than it is in Oregon.

"I'll give you a hint: it's lower than it is in Oregon."

Hmmmm, Sudan 10 percent
OR 10.8 Plus federal income taxes.

Thought you should know

I personally believe that anyone who earns a million dollars a year should pay at least a 50% tax rate. And anyone who earns more than five million a year should pay a 75% tax rate.

Exactly, why keep what you earn when there are plenty out there who would like some of your stuff?

How would you feel if rather then money the government forced labor for half of every day?

I live in the liberal state of Porkland and this is going to kill jobs here. It is not a tax on profits as stated in the article but a tax on gross earning for a company and it is retro to last Jan. I think i will beat teh exodus and move now

What? Tax the richest?

Hey, that won't work, lilaWol told me so. He said they just find loopholes around it so why bother.

And reagan, he told us that if we tax the rich and corporations, they will run out of country with our jobs, but if we don't, the money will trickle down to all of us cause the rich and giant global corporations always do the right thing.

You betcha!/

Oh, wait, these corps moved their offices offshore and sent our jobs to 3rd world countries anyhow during times of record profits. And that stuff trickling down on those of us who actually WORK for a living most of our lives, well that didn't turn out to be money, eh?

Thank You Oregon, now the state of Texas will reap the benefits by getting more businesses moving to this state.

I hope businesses run out of Oregon... -- #4 | Posted by member2586

Both of them?

Thank You Oregon, now the state of Texas will reap the benefits by getting more businesses moving to this state.
#31 | Posted by 90c2cab at 2010-01-28 08:37 AM

Uhm, a few years back the place I was working for moved to a cheaper location - not bus-route friendly which many single-car families relied upon. They were managed entirely off-site from TEXAS. Business after business were bought-up by TEXANS. Even our power grid management has been bought by TEXANS. All decentralized management from out of State - they phone-in the layoffs. I was not joking.

...Even our power grid management has been bought by TEXANS. All decentralized management from out of State - they phone-in the layoffs. I was not joking.

Posted by redlightrobot at 2010-01-28 03:34 PM

Tell me about it. Ken Lay and Enron almost destroyed California when our politicians allowed them to shove privatization down our throats when it came to the control of our electrical power grids. People in San Diego saw their electric bills shoot up 400% overnight.

Thank You Oregon, now the state of Texas will reap the benefits by getting more businesses moving to this state.

Lately, I'd been kinda waffling a bit about my decision to move to Texas when I leave California. But you have to admit it's where the job market is currently exploding. I wonder if, in general, employees are paid less in Texas than they are in other states? If so, then an enlarging job market might not mean you'd do all that well -- plentiful jobs or not. Guess it all depends on the type of work one does.

I was born and raised in 'blue streak' Oregon and still consider it home. I call it 'blue streak' because the bulk of the population lives in the metro areas straight down the I-5 corridor. Everyone else in that state, for the most part, is a red-stater. That's because they have to WORK for a living. That's gotten harder and harder in the last 25 years as the blue streak got bluer and bluer with wave after wave of immigrants from California and Mexico. Some of them were even legal.

There were other options for Oregon to get out of the economic freefall it was in, but they weren't popular with the blue streak: to this day Oregon doesn't have a sales tax, but blue streakers wring their hands about the poor having to pay sales tax. I personally (and only half seriously) think Oregon should follow the lead of most of the states in the northeast and make I-5 a toll road. Put toll booths on the Washington and California borders and charge a dollar per axle. People who don't want to pay can take an alternate US highway.
Oh, I know, how about we let people start harvesting timber again? Wouldn't that fall under JOBS CREATION? Instead it's just tax the rich, kill the corporations, jack up the property taxes again. Oregon gets what it deserves.

"Thank You Oregon, now the state of Texas will reap the benefits by getting more businesses moving to this state."

Texas like Mexico will learn the hard way that they can't win a race to the bottom, what can be moved to Texas can also be moved again to China. The rich fucks you want to protect from slight increases in taxes will outsource your job too and laugh at you as they do it. We need for workers in Texas to realize they have much more in common with the workers of Oregon or New York than with the corporate CEOs who don't give a crap about this country.

Proving again and again that there is no such thing as a recession in government, especially a government run by liberals. Instead of cutting or privatizing non-essential services or their own bloated travel budgets, they can just raise taxes and keep the gravy train chuggin' along. While everyone else makes sacrifices to stay afloat, government says "we don't have to do that."

Top earners need to have their wealth redistributed. Oregon is doing that.

#10 | Posted by jackass at 2010-01-27 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

They will "redistribute" their wealth, and jobs, to workers in Idaho.
==================

JACKASS is completely irrelevant

tragic really

he's obviously a pathetic, ultimate suicide. Most certainly violent.

Pray for the neighbors and stray bullets

Oregon has the gall to dispute Voo Doo economics, it seems they no longer buy the bull shit that wealth trickles down and creates jobs if only the rich can keep more of their income. Ronnie RAygun is finally being recognized as a snake oil salesman.

Lately, I'd been kinda waffling a bit about my decision to move to Texas when I leave California. But you have to admit it's where the job market is currently exploding. I wonder if, in general, employees are paid less in Texas than they are in other states? If so, then an enlarging job market might not mean you'd do all that well -- plentiful jobs or not. Guess it all depends on the type of work one does.

#35 | Posted by CalifChris

If Texas's cost of living is lower (which I'm sure it is), then lower wages don't impact you as much. The greater concern for Texans (and this doesn't include you Chris since your posts show eruditeness) is the mentality of "leftness" which got California in trouble that will be brought to the great state of Texas---will that mindset ultimately screw up Texas.

"the great state of Texas"

The only ones who think Texas is great, are the folks who live there. The rest of us think...pffft! : )

Pray for the neighbors and stray bullets

#39 | Posted by vernon

No, pray for the country---I understand there's more of this type of vermin and species slinking around.

the great state of Texas"

The only ones who think Texas is great, are the folks who live there. The rest of us think...pffft! : )

#42 | Posted by Lisa

Chris, I'm sure Texas would welcome you with open arms, now Lisa, that's a different story--she can stay on the great state of "titanic".

#41 | Posted by matsop

If Texas's cost of living is lower (which I'm sure it is), then lower wages don't impact you as much. The greater concern for Texans (and this doesn't include you Chris since your posts show eruditeness) is the mentality of "leftness" which got California in trouble that will be brought to the great state of Texas---will that mindset ultimately screw up Texas.
---------------
Most hard core Liberals that I know work for the Government, Unions or are Lawyers.

Texas is not Union friendly, zero taxes on corporations, Texas does not pay its state employees well, and there are laws limiting the power of lawyers. Also Texas has a sales tax, no income tax, so everyone pays taxes, and when everyone pays taxes, for some reason they don't go up very much.

So I don't see why Liberals would want to move here.

It is okay for the rich to be greefucks but when the middle class decides to look out for themselves for a change, they are evil.

Typical Rtard logic.

Why is it you never hear a teabagger asking why it is okay for rich people to pay half the tax rate of a working man? Why is it okay for a working man to pay 20 times higher employment tax rate than a man making $1,000,000/year

#42 | Posted by Lisa

The only ones who think Texas is great, are the folks who live there. The rest of us think...pffft! : )
-------------
I love be mocked out by someone in an unemployment line while I'm on my way to work.

I personally believe that anyone who earns a million dollars a year should pay at least a 50% tax rate. And anyone who earns more than five million a year should pay a 75% tax rate.

#27 | Posted by moder8

I personally believe you are envious of other people's penises...

...you down with OPP?

So I don't see why Liberals would want to move here.

#45 | Posted by 90c2cab

To screw it up.

Oregon has the gall to dispute Voo Doo economics, it seems they no longer buy the bull shit that wealth trickles down and creates jobs if only the rich can keep more of their income. Ronnie RAygun is finally being recognized as a snake oil salesman.

#40 | Posted by danni

You mean the rich don't create any jobs? Who creates the jobs then? And how do they do it?

Never ceases to amaze me how people are so jealous of ones who work hard and make a lot of money.. they feel that the hard workers should take care of the 'entitlement-minded' lazy people.. I, for one, do not think that I have an obligation to take care of people who sit on their buff or complain about their wages.. if one wants to better themselves, they should get off their ass and find ways to make money.. as an old country (and wealthy) man told me one time: "it takes one hell of a lazy minded and sorry person not to make all the money they want and need"... most who bitch and beg are just that..pretty lazy.. now, I am not indicting the elderly nor children, but in between, no one is holding anyone back from the opportunity to make a living.. it may not be the job that you want, or even trained for, but there are ways to make a living.. you have to retrain your thinking and get off your lazy ass and work for a change.. this is what really has dragged this country down... a complete downturn of pride and tenacity, into one of 'give me, give me' .. we have turned into a nation of 'beggars delight'.. Oregon and the thinkers like them are just more of the 'bottom feeders' of society that are too lazy to get out and take care of their own.. and, they do not realize that these 'rich' people provide most of the jobs of this society...!!!

While everyone else makes sacrifices to stay afloat, government says "we don't have to do that."

#38 | Posted by JOE

Where could Oregon make cuts? It's already a very low-tax state -- no sales tax, for example:

Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: None
Gasoline Tax: * 25.0 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: * 24.3 cents/gallon
(Local fuel taxes may add 1 to 3 cents)
Cigarette Tax: $1.18/pack of 20

Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: Low - 5%; High - 11%. Starting in tax year 2009 the personal income tax rate is 10.8% on taxable income over $125,000 but not over $250,000, and 11% on taxable income over $250,000. For tax years after 2011, the highest rate will be 9.9% on taxable income over $125,000.
Income Brackets: ** Lowest - $3,050; Highest - $250,000
retirementliving.com


Also, they have no rainy-day fund -- by law, if the state govt runs a surplus, it cuts checks and sends the money back to the taxpayers.

For comparisons with other states, see retirementliving.com .

"You mean the rich don't create any jobs? Who creates the jobs then? And how do they do it?"

Most of the people I know who create jobs are upper middle class working people themselves. The really rich folks I know don't create much of anything. Most of them inherited everything they have and have never really worked for anything in their lives. Their parents worked and earned and coincidentally paid much higher taxes than we have today and didn't whine about it because they wanted their kids to live in a great country with great schools and roads, etc. Too bad their kids didn't inherit their parents' character.

I personally believe that anyone who earns a million dollars a year should pay at least a 50% tax rate. And anyone who earns more than five million a year should pay a 75% tax rate.

#27 | Posted by moder8

I personally believe you are envious of other people's penises...

...you down with OPP?

#48 | Posted by BENDOR

I would rather government make sure that the playing field is as level as possible and hammer those who "compete" unethically then hammer the folks who work hard and have acheived through ethical behavior. But then again, those who do well should pay marginally higher taxes (and this comes from one who has been there). The problem is what that higher rate should be---the other side of the coin is that if there was more confidence in how that money was spent and if government was smaller and more efficient, the wage earners wouldn't be as reticent to pay a little more.

Oregon is faced with the same problems many states face.....budget deficts due to a recession.

Their tax revenues are lower and they need to do something to fix it.

Kansas has a balanced budget requirement which means we have to fix budget deficits immediately rather than borrow our way out of it.

We will likely reimpose a sales tax on utilities and impose a 1 cent sales tax increase for 3 years. And cuts in education, highways, etc.. are unfortunately part of this deal as well.

But then Kansas only has a $400 million shortfall, not $4 billion.

The really rich folks

#53 | Posted by danni

What would you define as "really rich folks"?---net worth and income/year?

....but if you don't like taxes move to Sudan.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-27 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

...but if you don't like the fact gays cant' marry, move to someplace they can.

...but if you don't like the fact MJ is illegal, move to someplace it isn't.

...but if you don't like the fact that healthcare is not provided by the government for everyone, move to someplace it is.

See how that works DUMMI? Bet you have a lot more reasons to leave than conservatives do.

Oregon has the gall to dispute Voo Doo economics, it seems they no longer buy the bull shit that wealth trickles down and creates jobs if only the rich can keep more of their income. Ronnie RAygun is finally being recognized as a snake oil salesman.

#40 | Posted by danni

You mean the rich don't create any jobs? Who creates the jobs then? And how do they do it?

#50 | Posted by BENDOR

You want Voo Doo economics?

Here's some, "we will double exports within the next five years..."

Obama didn't say how, so I'm chalking it up to PFM. This man doesn't have a clue how jobs are created or how to do things he spews,

"I personally believe that anyone who earns a million dollars a year should pay at least a 50% tax rate. And anyone who earns more than five million a year should pay a 75% tax rate"

It's hard to even formulate an argument for claptrap such as this. Let's just punish anyone for achieving anything in this country. Are you an out-of-the-closet socialist or still just pretending to be a moderate liberal? This is idiocy. Not only would this remove all incentive to produce anything, it would remove the investment capital itself, merely to give it to the government. Why, so they can give it to those that produce nothing? Absolute stupidity, stunning idiocy, and unbelievably asinine. Have you progressed beyond a 5th grade liberal education?

"The problem is what that higher rate should be---the other side of the coin is that if there was more confidence in how that money was spent and if government was smaller and more efficient, the wage earners wouldn't be as reticent to pay a little more."

Utter baloney, the same people who still want the Bush tax cuts extended would want more tax cuts even if you we did extend them. They don't want to pay anything and they really don't care about this country. I know quite a few people who are somewhat wealthy and many of them are perfectly fine with letting the taxes revert to the Clinton era level. I find more people in much lower income brackets who object but that is because they are talking point repeaters who will scream about anything on command when ordered to do so by the right wing talkers.

Let's say you have $1,000,000 in taxable income.

Can you tell us how much you saved of that million dollars?

What happened to the rest of it?

This is where idiots decide that the tax rate should be higher against those that make a lot of money.

If you are going to tax something, tax savings.

Why?

Because, if the person who made $1,000,000 spent 75% of that money, then $750,000 went into the economy.

Tax 75% of it or 50% of it?

You just took money that was going into the economy to be spent by the gov't.

If I spend $750,000 in my community, my community will be thrilled. If the gov't takes my $750,000, how much of it reaches all the people I was handing my money?

So, tax savings. At least this way, you may encourage spending. But, in a recession - saving is smart. Something the gov't doesn't do.

IMO, it would be better to sell illegal aliens, after conviction, as slaves. The money would offset a lot. Plus, as sold slaves, that would add more people to the census for State Representation (3/5ths?) and give the people of the State a benefit.

"It's hard to even formulate an argument for claptrap such as this."

Yeah Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower and John Kennedy and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter were all "clap traps."

See how that works DUMMI? Bet you have a lot more reasons to leave than conservatives do.

#57 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2010-01-29 10:54 AM | Reply

Uh...Um...Uh...BUSH!
-Danni

[Oregon is] already a very low-tax state -- no sales tax, for example... -- #52 | Posted by Phoenix

Hmmm. It gets more complicated. Here's a chart that makes comparisons of revenue by state easier:www.census.gov . Oregon comes in 7th, but Alaska (funded mostly by taxes on oil production) tops the list.

Would be interesting to know where Oregon's money goes. Schools and roads are mostly awful.

"Because, if the person who made $1,000,000 spent 75% of that money, then $750,000 went into the economy."

We already know the theory of Voo Doo Economics but the little detail y'all always forget is that no one who makes $1,000,000 spends $750,000 of it in one year. They also forget that with higher tax rates if their business earns $1,000,000 they can deduct all business expenses before they compute their taxes and thus it is in their interest to spend and hire rather than pay so much tax.

"Obama didn't say how, so I'm chalking it up to PFM. This man doesn't have a clue how jobs are created or how to do things he spews,"

Funny thing, in a post up this thread (I think) someone already posted....exports up 18% last quarter. They do know how to increase exports, the same way China does it, let the currency fall in value somewhat and make our goods cheaper overseas.
It's working.

"Obama didn't say how, so I'm chalking it up to PFM. This man doesn't have a clue how jobs are created or how to do things he spews,"

Funny thing, in a post up this thread (I think) someone already posted....exports up 18% last quarter. They do know how to increase exports, the same way China does it, let the currency fall in value somewhat and make our goods cheaper overseas.
It's working.

#66 | Posted by danni

So if our exports are less expensive, they will sell better overseas?

That makes sense.

So how does making our exports more expensive through higher taxes figure into that equation?

Something like this I think should take a super majority to pass, otherwise the rich fall prey to the tyranny of the majority.

"So how does making our exports more expensive through higher taxes figure into that equation?"

There is no reason higher taxes would make anything more expensive. That is just a talking point. Profit is computed after sales are made and expenses deducted. Higher taxes would actually encourage more investment into manufacturing capacity and jobs. You can pretend otherwise but we have decades to look back on that prove it.

Funny thing, in a post up this thread (I think) someone already posted....exports up 18% last quarter. They do know how to increase exports, the same way China does it, let the currency fall in value somewhat and make our goods cheaper overseas.
It's working.

#66 | Posted by danni

True and this will be an ongoing positive---but more importantly as the dollar eventually falls it'll (along with lower median wages), bring manufacturing jobs back into this country. Of course, we'll ultimately see rising inflation which will help pay down our debt with cheaper dollars (as long as Obama and congress don't continue to dig a deeper hole). By the way, all that mispent stimulous money did not show up in the recently GDP number.

Still curious, what do you define as "rich folks"--net worth and income?

Danni,

The Wingnut propaganda machine uses this lie so often that the morons actually believe it. These tabagging idiots are so stupid you can't hope to use common sense with them.

They couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the bottom of the sole.

"Something like this I think should take a super majority to pass, otherwise the rich fall prey to the tyranny of the majority."

Oh the poor rich will be hurt by the majority. No matter that they have always been quite capable of defending their own interests.

The rich have fucked the working man for long enough. Time to reverse the process and make them squeal like pigs.

"Still curious, what do you define as "rich folks"--net worth and income?"

I consider single people who earn between 125K and 250K to be well off, over 250k they are somewhat rich, 1 million a year they are rich. For couples it would be higher but not necessarily double though for tax purposes I suppose it would be double.

Still curious, what do you define as "rich folks"--net worth and income?

she claims that she knows "wealthy" people and refers to them as such so it should be no problem for her to define this.

What is hilarious is that she claims to know wealthy people who have a desire to pay higher taxes.

We are all sure she knows wealthy people like this.

LOL

How about we just tax them at the same rate we tax a working family that makes $120K/year.

You would hear the greatest piggy squeal since the movie Deliverance if that was done!!!

There is no reason higher taxes would make anything more expensive. That is just a talking point. Profit is computed after sales are made and expenses deducted. Higher taxes would actually encourage more investment into manufacturing capacity and jobs. You can pretend otherwise but we have decades to look back on that prove it.

#69 | Posted by danni

Profits are computed after sales are made. So price doesn't matter anymore?

Raise the price and sales remain high too?

Yes; and as you point out with exports, sales are made best when prices are low.

So how does raises prices, due to higher taxes, increase sales?

I seem to remember cigarettes tax raises the price on cigarettes...hmmmm...must have been the evil corporations that refused to take the higher cost of business out of their profits.

"Because, if the person who made $1,000,000 spent 75% of that money, then $750,000 went into the economy."

We already know the theory of Voo Doo Economics but the little detail y'all always forget is that no one who makes $1,000,000 spends $750,000 of it in one year. They also forget that with higher tax rates if their business earns $1,000,000 they can deduct all business expenses before they compute their taxes and thus it is in their interest to spend and hire rather than pay so much tax.

#65 | Posted by danni

Sorry Danni, but people who make $1,000,000 do spend it - or invest it. You're not speaking from experience with those that have that kind of money.

I've spent over 20 years working with people who invest this kind of money and spread it around.

They don't sit on it. In fact, they not only spend and invest it, they are still working.

Your example of rich people would seem to be more of those that don't have to work anymore for a living.

From those I work for, they are still working because if they didn't, they'd go bankrupt and they are have millions. But with earnings of millions are outlays of millions.

What you think of is rich is to me someone who employs a lot of people, invests in this country, and enjoys life.

They are not sitting back watching their accounts grow with interest. They don't sit on their money. Many, if they chose to stop right now, would have to sell off everything they have to avoid collapse.

A tax of 50% and 75% isn't realistic and gives rise to revolutionary issues. A tax must be fair, but it cannot be punititive either.

I highly recommend seeking out a financial counselor who handles millions and have them provide you how that kind of person invests, continues work, and makes the lives of others better because of their business sense.

Then, ask what happens if the person quits their work.

Trickle down? No, the so-called rich are keeping a lot of people working and enjoying life.

That's ain't no trickle.

I seem to remember cigarettes tax raises the price on cigarettes

That is because cigarette taxes are a consumption tax at the point of sale.

Income taxes are different.

"We are all sure she knows wealthy people like this."

True story, I attended an Obama rally with a wealthy friend. She voted for him just like I did and yes, she's willing to pay higher taxes to make the country better. Probably hard for you to believe Eberly but that says more about you than anything else.

"Sorry Danni, but people who make $1,000,000 do spend it - or invest it. You're not speaking from experience with those that have that kind of money."

I never said they don't invest it, I said they don't spend it all because most of them don't. They invest it, the only problem is that low capital gains taxes encourages investment into things that don't create jobs. I don't want to take away their money, I just want to make it smarter for them to invest it into job creating enterprises like small businesses and discourage them from investing it into companies that outsource jobs.

"A tax of 50% and 75% isn't realistic and gives rise to revolutionary issues."

I don't recall a revolution between 1945 and 1980 do you???
Is there a revolution going on in Europe that the news failed to report or, more likely, are you pulling nonsense out of your ass???

You're not talking sense.

Describe investments that don't create jobs?

I'm really interested in what investments fails to create a job?

I come to realize, and this is not a slame on Danni at all, just an observation, but Danni is not a Democrat or a Liberal; she is a Communist/ Socialist who sees the DNC as the path to her end goal.

There is no reason higher taxes would make anything more expensive.

#69 | Posted by danni

That's an interesting statement.

I wonder, would higher flour prices increase the cost of baked bread? How about higher energy prices for heating the ovens?

Taxes are costs, aren't they? So how does rising costs not result in higher consumer prices?

Can you give me an example of this happening. Costs of production go up but prices go down as a result?

I'm confused. Seems like Voo Doo to me.

"I highly recommend seeking out a financial counselor who handles millions and have them provide you how that kind of person invests, continues work, and makes the lives of others better because of their business sense."

Actually about three years ago I did exactly that. I thought I should take a large amount of money I had then and perhaps buy gold with it. The counselor who worked at the swiss bank USB (I think that is the name) so oh no, I should buy a house or condo. I followed her advice, I seriously regret following her advice and I looked to see what would have happened if I followed my own advice...guess what....I would have doubled my money by now. So much for investment counselors who get paid huge amounts but know no more than I do.

www.socialstudiesforkids.com

Here Danni. A little education about taxes and revolution. We are talking about excessive taxes.
1945 was a war and the people supported it. 1980 hardly meets the excessive taxes that the colonists experience.

Excessive taxes are punitive and harmful.

"she is a Communist/ Socialist who sees the DNC as the path to her end goal."

Yeah, a Commie like Eisenhower and Kennedy.
I am old enough to remember great universities that students attended for FREE! It is sad to see what Reaganomics has done to this once great country.

Yeah, a Commie like Eisenhower and Kennedy.

You are nothing like them Danni. You seek total redistribution of wealth; total coverage for the less fortunate, and total punishment of those with wealth.

Danni, you made an investment choice. Should you be bailed out by the gov't because the investment soured?

Let's say you doubled your money. I think the gov't should tax you at 50% for your gain.

There. You invest $100,000. Doubled your money to $200,000. The gov't gets to take $50,000 or 50% of your gain.

That's fair. There's people who are in need and it should come out of your good fortune.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. I would rather you enjoy the profit you made. I'm sure you wouldn't sit on it and others would benefit from your spending and investing.

True story, I attended an Obama rally with a wealthy friend. She voted for him just like I did and yes, she's willing to pay higher taxes to make the country better. Probably hard for you to believe Eberly but that says more about you than anything else.

#80 | Posted by danni

Well, her higher taxes went to Mary Landreu in the Louisiana Purchase.

Is this the betterment she had in mind?

Your friend is a fool.

-You seek total redistribution of wealth;

The last 40 years has seen the largest distribution of wealth in our history... upwards.

- total coverage for the less fortunate,

Oh horrors! That we might become like every other large industrialized nation on earth.

-and total punishment of those with wealth.

Yeah, letting the Bush tax cuts expire is the same as reverting to a 95 percent tax rate.

You're losing it, dude.

Bendor not everybody has the attitude that they got theirs fuck you if you didn't get yours.

largest REdistribution

You're losing it, dude.

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2010-01-29 11:53 AM

You lost it long ago Corky. Nothing personal, but you have been a mockery of your former self. You have abandoned every principle you once had to be on the winning team.

I'm the same as always, K.

And so are you.

True story, I attended an Obama rally with a wealthy friend. She voted for him just like I did and yes, she's willing to pay higher taxes to make the country better.

good for you. I'm sure there are some out there.

but they are a small minority of wealthy people.

They invest it, the only problem is that low capital gains taxes encourages investment into things that don't create jobs.

I buy stock in in a company and that doesn't create a job?

low capital gains taxes encourages more trading and owners cashing in more often because the pain is less. And that money goes right back into the market.

you need to remember danni that an owner isn't going to just start creating jobs if there is no need for them. you can't just impose a punitive tax on them and accept that a job will be created because it is better than paying a higher tax.

if you knew shit about our tax code you would know there are PLENTY ways to skirt punitive taxes other than buying equipment and creating jobs.

If it were that simple then we would just have a 100% tax rate on high incomes and everying would just be grand wouldn't it????

but we don't, and Obama and the dems aren't going to change that.

"You invest $100,000. Doubled your money to $200,000. The gov't gets to take $50,000 or 50% of your gain."

If I made that much profit and then didn't use that profit to invest in something else then I guess that would be my choice right?

"Your friend is a fool."

Yeah, I guess my parents' generation were all fools, fools who built great roads, schools, etc. Funny thing too, they did all that without whining and didn't go around with stupid flag pins on their clothes either. My seven college educated brothers and sisters all remember those fools with gratitude, too bad folks like you think all we enjoy in this country came without sacrifice.

Bendor not everybody has the attitude that they got theirs fuck you if you didn't get yours.

#93 | Posted by jackass

True. That attitude is mostly on the Left.

"Fuck you. I want my (fill in the blank). Fuck you, you rich POS! You can afford it!"

Bendor not everybody has the attitude that they got theirs fuck you if you didn't get yours.

#93 | Posted by jackass

True. That attitude is mostly on the Left.

"Fuck you. I want my (fill in the blank). Fuck you, you rich POS! You can afford it!"

I'm the same as always, K.

Sad you can't see how you have changed. Honestly sad.

Yeah, I guess my parents' generation were all fools, fools who built great roads, schools, etc. Funny thing too, they did all that without whining and didn't go around with stupid flag pins on their clothes either. My seven college educated brothers and sisters all remember those fools with gratitude, too bad folks like you think all we enjoy in this country came without sacrifice.

#98 | Posted by danni

This ain't are parents' Government.

What they knew is gone through systemic corruption.

"low capital gains taxes encourages more trading and owners cashing in more often because the pain is less. And that money goes right back into the market."

Yep, right back into the market, not into buying new equipment or expanding businesses to hire more workers. After the initial stock offering the profit from sales of stock go to the owner of the stock not the business that the stock represents.
And they pay less tax on their income than do workers. It's disgusting.

largest REdistribution

right. the poor "REdistributed" their wealth to the wealthy.

makes sense.......

.....to corky..........

the CEO.

"What they knew is gone through systemic corruption."

If you want to refer to Reaganomics as corruption fine by me.

"Fuck you. I want my (single payer insurance). Fuck you, you rich POS! You can afford it!"

#100 | Posted by BENDOR

Yep, right back into the market, not into buying new equipment or expanding businesses to hire more workers.

tell us more about your "wealthy" friend danni. please.

how does she get her wealth? business owner??

please share.....

"You invest $100,000. Doubled your money to $200,000. The gov't gets to take $50,000 or 50% of your gain."

If I made that much profit and then didn't use that profit to invest in something else then I guess that would be my choice right?

#98 | Posted by danni

Yes, it would be your choice. And, I don't think you should be punished for making or saving your money.

In fact, considering how things could sour, you should consider a safety net.

It the idea that others think your safety net should be someone else's net that bothers me.

Those that need should be helped to meet the need.
I have seen enough to believe the need is want and the two are different.

My seven college educated brothers and sisters all remember those fools with gratitude,

are you degreed as well?

"how does she get her wealth? business owner??"

How about none of your business.

"are you degreed as well?"

Yes.

-right. the poor "REdistributed" their wealth to the wealthy.

makes sense.......

.....to corky..........

It must be my day to make Beverly look stupid.... usually he doesn't need any help....

sociology.ucsc.edu

-Honestly sad.

Sad that you chose going after Danni or my motives instead of retorting the factuality what we say.... as you have still not done.

#106 | Posted by jackass

I guess it's time for the weekly reminder to jackass that he is totally being carried by "wealthy" people.

his employer
his bank
his credit card company
his health insurance

without those evil wealthy people he would be in jail or the morgue.

The state also taxes businesses and corporations.

Oregon's 2010 Business Tax Climate Ranks 14th
Oregon ranks 14th in the Tax Foundation's State Business Tax Climate Index. The Index compares the states in five areas of taxation that impact business: corporate taxes; individual income taxes; sales taxes; unemployment insurance taxes; and taxes on property, including residential and commercial property. Neighboring states ranked as follows: Washington (9th), Idaho (18th), Nevada (4th) and California (48th).

Oregon's Corporate Income Tax System
Oregon's corporate tax structure consists of two brackets with a top rate of 7.9% kicking in $250,000. Among states levying corporate income taxes, Oregon's rate ranks 17th highest nationally. In 2007, state-level corporate tax collections (excluding local taxes) were $109 per capita, which ranked 39th highest nationally.

Also it's not just taxes that affect business, there are regulations and mandates.

So that is somthing else that will affect whether a company/business stays or leaves.

I still have not heard a logical or reasonable argument as to why a person who makes a lot of money should pay a higher tax rate or be dinged for even more tax by being able to create wealth.. just a lot of jealous bites..
does not matter where the wealthy put their money, the point is why should they be subjected to higher taxes just because they are ambitious and not afraid to go out and make it, rather than sit on a mediocre life and bitch about those willing to work...!!!

How about none of your business.

how about you are lying.

Business people I know (and I know a lot) and I also have knowlege of their finances and personal wealthy are very committed to investing into their business and invest very little in the market. It has nothing to do with trends and shifts in capital gains rates and income tax rates.

it has to do with how committed they are to their business and how much they want to see it grow.

they invest into their business because of knowledge and the ideology of preferring to have their wealth in their business and not in the stock market.

it doesn't have a damn thing to do with tax rates.

they bitch about them either way but it doesn't change their attitude and motivations regarding growing their business.

And if your friend is a business owner you would know she is probably the same as what I just described. She can be a liberal or a conservative. It doesn't matter. I work with both ends of that spectrum but their philosophy towards their business is the same regardless of their political ideology.

Actually about three years ago I did exactly that. I thought I should take a large amount of money I had then and perhaps buy gold with it. The counselor who worked at the swiss bank USB (I think that is the name) so oh no, I should buy a house or condo. I followed her advice, I seriously regret following her advice and I looked to see what would have happened if I followed my own advice...guess what....I would have doubled my money by now. So much for investment counselors who get paid huge amounts but know no more than I do.

#86 | Posted by danni

Should of listened to Ray and myself back then--of course, it's never too late--

I'm really interested in what investments fails to create a job? -- #83 | Posted by Petrous

Lol. Well then, pick up a newspaper covering the U.S. economy in the last couple years. The investment choices banks have made not only did not create jobs, they nearly crippled the economy.

#112

corksarvis libtard duo thinks that I don't know those stats and the trends over the past 30 years.

The poor haven't fared well.....agreed.

I didn't take any of it from them.

my stock market gains
my real estate gains
my income
my tax bill on 4/15

what part of that was "redistributed" from the poor?

I consider single people who earn between 125K and 250K to be well off, over 250k they are somewhat rich, 1 million a year they are rich. For couples it would be higher but not necessarily double though for tax purposes I suppose it would be double.

#74 | Posted by danni

I can dig that. Thanks for your response.

"thinks that I don't know those stats and the trends over the past 30 years."

I haven't the faintest idea if you know what you say you think you know. And, more to the point, I don't care. I just think you're unintentionally funny. Not really prime time funny but good for a couple of laughs.

-right. the poor "REdistributed" their wealth to the wealthy.

makes sense.......

.....to corky..........

-The poor haven't fared well.....agreed.

I didn't take any of it from them.

Glad it makes sense to you, too.

"Should of listened to Ray and myself back then--of course, it's never too late--"

I don't agree with Ray on macro economics but the opportunity gold offered three years ago was undeniable, I kick myself every single day. Now the condo I bought, which fortunately I did get a good deal on, has lost quite a bit of value. I have probably lost 50% of my investment.

"how about you are lying."

How about you are full of crap and I don't care what you think.

"I still have not heard a logical or reasonable argument as to why a person who makes a lot of money should pay a higher tax rate or be dinged for even more tax by being able to create wealth.. just a lot of jealous bites.."

Previous generations understood that if you want a great country it takes sacrifice, too bad for you that you don't understand that. It speaks volumes about your character. I think every flag waving hypocrit who bitches and moans about taxes is just a hypocrit pretending to be a patriot. No wonder flag pins and standard apparell for politicians even including (sadly) BArack Obama. One of his worst moments was when he caved and started wearing that foolish pin.

Yeah, I guess my parents' generation were all fools, fools who built great roads, schools, etc. Funny thing too, they did all that without whining and didn't go around with stupid flag pins on their clothes either. My seven college educated brothers and sisters all remember those fools with gratitude, too bad folks like you think all we enjoy in this country came without sacrifice.

#98 | Posted by danni

Is that what I said?

Our parents were not fools. The present Government is full of them however.

Your tax money and mine is being spent, not on roads like back in the day, but on totally foolish endeavors like phony carbon regulations. And "lost" in non-existent congressional districts. And used to pay-off "friends of politicians".

And your friend likes that? Then she is even a greater fool than her Government leaders.

True; our parents did not wear flag pins. Instead, they stood up and saluted it.

Just like I did for 22 years in the U.S. Navy (retired combat veteran).

Blah blah, left platitude, blah blah, left platitude...

-Danni

What was it that Biden said - paying taxes is patriotic? What's more patriotic is not taking from others that which they earned, merely to give it to someone who did not.

people will vote for tax increases as long as it's not their taxes

Danni sit tight. I believe you will get some money on the condo. Housing will eventually rebound somewhat. I have been buying silver lately. It is cheaper to buy so It's an easier investment for me.

people will vote for tax increases as long as it's not their taxes

#130 | Posted by semtex111

Not true. I would happily increase my tax rate if it meant single payer insurance. I want the common good not just what is best for myself.

How about you are full of crap

I might have an ideology you disagree with but I am not full of crap.

I make nothing up.

nothing.

and the real world of the "wealthy" is as I stated it.

but to fair, I don't work with "uber wealthy" people so I do not speak for them.

I represent folks who are in the highest marginal tax bracket and have $4-$10 million in net worth.

and again, they are very consistent with regard to their investments in their business and the lower taxes they have experienced under GWB hasn't kept them from investing into jobs and capital equipment.

in some cases a bad business environment has......but a higher tax environment wouldn't have gotten them to do what you want.

Jackass,

Be VERY careful with your precious metals investments. Some of the so-called investment firms are nothing more than scams. Look very carefully at their spreads and find out today exactly what you could net if you had to liquidate your holdings in an emergency. You might be horrified at the answer.

If the Government respected the tax money it collects there wouldn't be so much outcry.

Instead, they use our tax money to further corrupt themselves.

We have become a nation of corruption enablers through our our tax system.

No wonder the people who don't pay any taxes, don't care.

As long as they get their (fill in the blank).

Just like I did for 22 years in the U.S. Navy (retired combat veteran).

uh oh!!!

Woke will be along anytime now to slap danni like a bitch for "denigrating a war veteran"

we'll be waiting....

Just like I did for 22 years in the U.S. Navy (retired combat veteran).

uh oh!!!

Woke will be along anytime now to slap danni like a bitch for "denigrating a war veteran"

we'll be waiting....

#136 | Posted by eberly

Danni did not denigrate me. I fired the first shot by calling her friend (and our Government) fools.

Should of listened to Ray and myself back then--of course, it's never too late--"

I don't agree with Ray on macro economics but the opportunity gold offered three years ago was undeniable, I kick myself every single day. Now the condo I bought, which fortunately I did get a good deal on, has lost quite a bit of value. I have probably lost 50% of my investment.

#125 | Posted by danni

Currently, in your neck of the woods (Fla.)---hearing that from a lot of folks.

Bendor,

I know she didn't. but Woke would accuse you of exactly that if it were in reverse.

I have been buying silver lately. It is cheaper to buy so It's an easier investment for me.

#131 | Posted by jackass

"Poor man's gold"---good for you Jackass, you won't regret it---the wisest pronouncement (of mostly forgettable ones) that I've ever seen you post--once again, good choice (make it a long term hold and you won't regret it).

Bendor,

If you believe all that, why is only now that you teabaggers are making such a fuss? This has been going on for YEARS. Your god and savior Bush raped the middle-class taxpayer for 8 years and not a peep from you so-called conservatives.

Your crocodile tears are not very convincing. This is just talking points from the same idiots that bankrupted our country in an effort to get back in power.

Jackass,

Be VERY careful with your precious metals investments. Some of the so-called investment firms are nothing more than scams. Look very carefully at their spreads and find out today exactly what you could net if you had to liquidate your holdings in an emergency. You might be horrified at the answer.

#134 | Posted by axe at 2010-01-29 12:41 PM

Since I take possession of the silver bullion I imagine I can sell it for whatever I can get.

I have been using Blanchard company which Ray tells me is well respected.

Gold is now in a classic bubble.

Be careful. Market tops, in anything, are recognizable by the TV advertisements (among other things).

Just when the ads max and everyone thinks that gold is the way to go...

...those really in the know will start buying LEAPS and shorting the market.

Remember all of the DITEC commercials just before the housing bubble burst?

Well, now you're seeing all the "buy gold" commercials.

Are you really brave and want to make money on gold?

Then you should be shorting the market - not buying in on the long side.

The gold longs are about to get crushed.

And it will happen as soon as you "finally give in" and put your money in.

#127..Danni..
You apparently have an interpretive issue.. I do not mind paying taxes..but, a fair share percentage wise.. I sacrifice every day to maintain business and provide jobs, but do not feel that I should be penalized for making good, when people like you are content to sit on your duff with a nominal wage and bitch that I am not paying more taxes.. not sure you even understand sacrifice and to question character of those who do work and provide most of the services that you enjoy is pretty ignorant.. your argument is shallow, but then it is people like you who 'bottom feed' services, while only doing enough to get by...

[Righties] couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the bottom of the sole.

#71 | Posted by axe at 2010-01-29 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag: Axe can, however. But then, why does he piss in his boot?

#144 | Posted by BENDOR
Gold is now in a classic bubble.
Be careful. Market tops, in anything, are recognizable by the TV advertisements (among other things).
Just when the ads max and everyone thinks that gold is the way to go...

-----------
TFF That was great!

largest REdistribution

right. the poor "REdistributed" their wealth to the wealthy.

makes sense.......

.....to corky..........

the CEO.

Are you fucking saying this hasn't happened? You must be joking. You can't possibly be this ignorant.

-You can't possibly be this ignorant.

Er, don't bet on it.

Are you fucking saying this hasn't happened? You must be joking.

read the thread. It has happened.

It is being called "redistributed wealth"...fine.

But nobody "redistributed" it.

The word should be an adjective....not a verb.

some libtards want it to be a verb so they can blame someone for it.

" I sacrifice every day to maintain business and provide jobs, but do not feel that I should be penalized for making good, when people like you are content to sit on your duff with a nominal wage and bitch that I am not paying more taxes.."

Do you honestly think I believe you???
Then you're even dumber than I thought.

From the CIA World Factbook, United States entry:

"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

If you don't see this as plain evidence that something has gone wrong over the past 35 years, you must be blind.

Increasing the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is not healthy for any nation.

"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

That is 20%. I don't call that a few. The botton 50% don't even pay taxes

Danni..#151..
your response confirms my statement...
it is people like you that cannot conceive of people that work and accumulate, except to expect them to provide MORE for your comfort of government services.

The botton 50% don't even pay taxes

#153 | Posted by timbci

You're a liar, Tim.

You don't call one in five a few? What color is the sky in your world?

Nail on the Head.

1 in 5 are uninsured.

a few?

The botton 50% don't even pay taxes

#153 | Posted by timbci

You're a liar, Tim.

#155 | Posted by nullifidian

Keep dreaming son. The bottom 50% are subsidized by people who have careers

1 in 5 are uninsured.

THe graduation rate in Jersey City is 74% Sounds about right. They are losers. I have more respect for illegals.

I sacrifice every day to maintain business and provide jobs, but do not feel that I should be penalized for making good, when people like you are content to sit on your duff with a nominal wage and bitch that I am not paying more taxes.. -- #145 | Posted by drsoul

You're way out of touch, Doc. One of the big labor market stories has been how striking increases in worker productivity have been, and how poorly workers have been compensated. You'll find zillions of articles about this with google, but here's an excerpt from one:

Productivity growth and profits far outpace compensation in current expansion... Economists assume that faster productivity growth generates higher living standards through higher average wages. The problem is that only a small proportion of the increase in productivity growth since early 2001 has flowed to wages and compensation, implying that working families are not benefiting much from this improved output per hour. Figure 1 shows that, while productivity has grown 4.1% annually in the current business cycle, starting in early 2001, compensation growth has only been at a 1.5% annual rate. In other words, compensation has grown only 37% as fast as productivity. www.epi.org

Well, Phoenix, you can quote all you want and make your assertions of 'being out of touch'... but, one thing that I learned long ago, is to 'take care of your employees' ... I pay well and do not take advantage of workers by small increases.. most are under an incentive for growth of business and production... it is an aberration of the normal practice of business, but I rarely have turnover and people feel like they are family.. to do otherwise, is not the philosophy that I grew up with and have followed.. I only need so much to live on and have the toys of life...more important to me to take care of people and keep them along with me than be totally extravagant.. but, I still feel that because I work my tail off to accumulate that I should not pay any different 'effective tax rate percentage' than any other person no matter what I make...

By the way.... a lot of people get fooled by my handle and some of my opinions and arguments, but those who do usually fall way behind..!!!!

"Spoken like a true uneducated factory worker with no hopes of ever being wealthy."

I'm not defending this policy. But there are plenty of middle class people who are not very wealthy but who favor policies that are in the best interest of the very wealthy at the expense of the middle class. And they do so because the "hope" to be wealthy one day. Those people are fucking morons. Look out for yourself. When you become very wealthy then you can worry about looking out for the very wealthy.

#162 | Posted by drsoul

Good on you. But as you note in your post, not all employers are like that -- so assuming that people who don't make much money are just "sitting on their duffs" isn't reasonable.

"I sacrifice every day to maintain business and provide jobs...."

Mother Teresa sacrificed for others every day.

You are acting in your best interest.

Nothing wrong with doing well for yourself. Having a Christ complex about it is a bit unappealing though....

You have a lot of assumptions, Sully.. misdiredted, but then that is your world..!!!
as to Phoenix.. I understand that there are a lot of people out there lacking initiative, incentive or the ability to make a lot of money.. I accept those people and their decisions..just do not expect me to make up their difference if they are unwilling to do anything different.. not much respect for those who will not make the effort to criticize or expect a wealthy person to pay their share along the way..
As to #166....Sully, your assumption, again..!!! of a Christ complex is very ignorant.. my interest, sure, is to make money and accumulate wealth, but I also believe and respect employees who are hardworking, loyal and decent.. to share with them is certainly not 'Christlike', just the fair way to do things..
Tell me Sully, are you an entrepreneur or a 'wage earner'..??? might expain your cynicism toward people who do work..!!!
Sacrificing every day to maintain business and provide jobs is a self-protection as well as respect for employees and their families who signed on for the best possibilities in their endeavors.. I think you have a lot of misguided thoughts perhaps, again, out of pure ignorance of understanding..

#162 | Posted by drsoul

Good on you. But as you note in your post, not all employers are like that -- so assuming that people who don't make much money are just "sitting on their duffs" isn't reasonable.

#165 | Posted by Phoenix

The businesses that have had large productivity gains and profits are mostly big. I also have a small business that was started 7 years ago and Danni doesn't know what she is talking about---most are struggling versus big business who have economies of scale and could care less if they lay people off---in this downturn we decided to be loyal to our employees (who are paid well) by not laying any of them off even though we could have and had increase in profits---but there comes a point where if the right policies aren't made in Washington, we will have to let folks go --I don't have much confidence in Obama since he's never run a business or anything else and doesn't seem to have a clue or plan on what produces jobs in this environment. Rhetoric will not make things happen.

#168 | Posted by matsop

I get it -- I've always lived in downtown areas, and know many of the small business owners by name.

But I'm guessing you wouldn't be affected by a tax like this one:

The vote also places higher taxes on businesses by increasing the tax rate by 1.3 percentage points to 7.9 percent on profits over $250,000.

The vote also places higher taxes on businesses by increasing the tax rate by 1.3 percentage points to 7.9 percent on profits over $250,000.

In other words, the tax on a $250,000 profit increases by $3,250, from $16,500 to $19,750.

I guess I don't see how that's going to end the world. Gasoline prices about doubled a couple years ago and we found a way to pay.

When one person can vote away anothers property, income, the fruits of their labor to the exclusion of their own, then our Republic is lost.

Again with this stupid nonsense that taxes == stealing.

Move to Somalia if you love anarchy so much.

Actually the top 50% of federal Income Tax payers pay 97% of the federal income taxes collected - SO the bottom 50% pay nothing or almost nothing into the Federal Income Tax system.

NOTE: I'm being specific about it being Federal Income Taxes as many of you here understand why I must be very specific ;)

Actually the top 50% of federal Income Tax payers pay 97% of the federal income taxes collected - SO the bottom 50% pay nothing or almost nothing into the Federal Income Tax system.

NOTE: I'm being specific about it being Federal Income Taxes as many of you here understand why I must be very specific ;)

#173 | Posted by MSgt at 2010-01-30 02:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

I would say that if that bullshit were true, then which ever President manages to put that final 3% on the top 50%., then that President would be assured of reelection, and have his name go down in history as the greatest President the country has ever known. After all---50% of tax payers NEVER have to pay any federal income taxes!!

Unfortunately it is all bullshit.

The top 10% of Americans owned 76% of all the wealth in America as of 2007. Who wouldn't expect them to pay most of the income taxes?

sociology.ucsc.edu

There are probably other links from the government. Anyone can look for themselves.

WASHINGTON, D.C.--The 400 highest-earning taxpayers in the U.S. reported a record $105 billion in total adjusted gross income in 2006, but they paid just $18 billion in tax, new Internal Revenue Service figures show. That works out to an average federal income tax bite of 17%--the lowest rate paid by the richest 400 during the 15-year period covered by the IRS statistics. The average federal tax bite on the top 400 was 30% in 1995 and 23% in 2002.

www.forbes.com

Anyone wonder why we're running deficits? 2 tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans took a major bite out of revenues. Not like they need another 100' yacht or anything ...

Another point that is being ignored here is it's not just the tax itself, it's the philosophy of the voters/state of Oregon.

There is human nature at play here. I here the Liberals on this board saying it just one little tax whats the big deal.
This may be one tax on the wealthy, but will there be more. Some businesses are not going to stick around to find out, they will just leave.

The reason why this tax is stupid because giving someone or the Government more money when they running debt will not fix anything because they have to control spending 1st.

Do financial advisors tell their clients to go out and get a higher paying job? No they tell them to get their spending under control.

When a business moves to the state of Texas they know for the most part that their coast will stay the same, businesses in the state of Oregon, can't say that.

Businesses don't like uncertainty.

Look folks, we know that revenue for all levels of government has declined. When that happens there is only one real solution, cut costs and raise revenues. Any business owner can tell you that. The problem is the left is loath to cut a program and the right is too bullheaded to admit that sometimes you have to raise taxes. Oregon like most states, has probably pared things pretty much to the bone. The only thing left is to raised revenue.

1) I live in Oregon and voted against both of these measures and will continue to vote against any tax increase at any level until spending is reigned in.
2) I own a small business with 2.5 employees. We were hoping to add at least 1 more this year, but if our taxes go up, that may not be possible. I am sure we aren't alone.
3) I am middle classish, but because I own my own business, over 50% of the money that comes in the door goes to taxes and fees at the business/personal level. That seems criminal to me.
4) Just like the federal government, Oregon has other revenue streams outside taxes. We just prefer to spend our lottery and other dollars on salmon.
5) The notion that all rich people are republican is incorrect. On average, democrats make more than republicans.
6) If you hate rich people, then work to end corporatism whereby corporate leaders have a larger voice in government than you do and vote themselves money and favors. Taking money from your neighbor just gives our already bloated governments more money to waste. That doesn't help anything.
7) If you hate rich people, stop fucking voting for them!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

JP

Then you should write your Congressman and demand he vote for Obama's proposed small business tax credits and cuts. The GOP voted no.

$5000 tax credit for every new hire
100% capital gains writeoff on small business expenditures

The list goes on...

The GOP is the holdup. Educate yourself on the issue at the federal level. It's all in your favor.

(and a health care plan that won't leave your employees in the cold if they get sick)

"Oregon like most states, has probably pared things pretty much to the bone. The only thing left is to raised revenue."

You are probably incorrect. Just a few years ago, someone I knew that worked at SAIF told us that they had 35 unfilled positions that they requested budget funds for even though they never intended to fill those positions. That is a million+ right there and this shit happens every day. All of the organizations that suckle at the government teet will do everything in their power to maintain or increase their yearly budgets. Sometimes they lie, and most of the time, they know there is very little oversight or auditing as to how they spend their money.

Then you should write your Congressman and demand he vote for Obama's proposed small business tax credits and cuts. The GOP voted no.

We, as a nation, simply cannot afford to keep giving government money away, while spending like a homeless person that just won the lottery, and at the same time refusing to cut spending. As much as I hate taxes, I find them a very necessary evil now. But if we don't start to reign in government and spending in a BIG way, this country is over. Literally.

(and a health care plan that won't leave your employees in the cold if they get sick)

We have health care and we pay for it without expecting you to contribute to it.

Nike Inc., the world's largest athletic-shoe maker, is among publicly traded companies based in Oregon. The company declined to comment.

I would love to see them pull out and leave Oregon

and I read that the cieling for "RICH" people in oregon is now 115K

and the child credit cieling in 85K
see whats happening...the defintion of "RICH" is going lower and lower...

typical

and I read that the cieling for "RICH" people in oregon is now 115K

and the child credit cieling in 85K
see whats happening...the defintion of "RICH" is going lower and lower...

typical

#186 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-01-30 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag

Link? Typical bullshit from you.

Don't raise taxes. Cut gov't spending and waste. Lower the taxes and you'll have more commerce... and more taxable resources. Don't keep tapping into the golden goose. (Unless you're into beastiality)

Agreeing to higher taxes only enables more incompetence by government.

It is like trying to get your 20 year old kid who is living with you to go get a job but you up his allowance to help motivate him

And yes 20 year olds should be not be getting an allowance or living at home

7) If you hate rich people, stop fucking voting for them!

There is noone else to vote for. All candidates for public office are rich.

How about we raise taxes on the greedy bastards that have benefited for decades that their gains should be privatized and their losses socialized AND that we work to reduce fraud and corruption?

I see it as we need BOTH and not as "either/or" that Limpsack and Scamity and the elitist mouthpieces like to use to deflect from truth.

I would say that if that bullshit were true, then which ever President manages to put that final 3% on the top 50%., then that President would be assured of reelection, and have his name go down in history as the greatest President the country has ever known. After all---50% of tax payers NEVER have to pay any federal income taxes!!

Prove it son.
The botton 50% don't make any money. Why would they pay taxes. Additionally, poor people often don't vote either.

Bob get your head out of your ass

The trend has been for those at the top to make more than they'll ever spend and screw the worker bees.

Robert Nardelli is the poster child. $400,000,000 for 5 years at Home Depot during which time their stock tanked, they lost market share, and his hourly employees were stuck at $8 an hour. He made $38,461 an hour.

I see it as we need BOTH and not as "either/or" that Limpsack and Scamity and the elitist mouthpieces like to use to deflect from truth.

Elitist? You are too funny.
Hannity went to NYU and Adelphi and never graduated.

After all---50% of tax payers NEVER have to pay any federal income taxes!!

Yet they keep cutting the tax rate for the top 5% who can actually afford significant taxes. Is it any wonder that we have such a huge deficit?

The botton 50% don't make any money.

And you also complain that they don't pay any taxes. Do you understand your own contradiction?


Good job Oregon. Greedy Fuckers deserve to pay high taxes.

#2 | Posted by jackass

Spoken by a real loser!

Can't handle your own failures so you attack those who work hard and are rewarded. You think they cheat! It's called the American Dream... Look it up!

Can't handle your own failures so you attack those who work hard and are rewarded. You think they cheat! It's called the American Dream... Look it up!

#197 | Posted by Eddie at 2010-02-01 10:59 AM |

my American dream is seeing the republican party crushed into obsolescence.

Comments are closed for this entry.


Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Copyright 2012 World Readable