GObama!

The GNOP leadership has had no interest in bipartisanship on this issue, so it's time for leadership from the Dems.

GOPhers will whine about reconciliation, which they used to pass two unpaid for tax cuts for the wealthy and an unpaid for war, but it's time to tell them to they had their chance for months with all their amendments voted on, but all they did was stall.

Too bad, so sad. Pass the damn Bill!

They should use reconciliation pass the bill and then announce that this will be business as usual from now on with the Party of NO.

#2

Amen. If the Rethugs can set records for filibusters, reconciliation is the way to bypass them.

...the Party of NO.

Too bad the democrats weren't the party of No when they had the chance, huh, Danni? Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now if they had been doing their job. But no, they sat on their asses and merrily let the Republicans bring the country to its knees instead of being the party of No.

Great job, dems. Just because you failed to do your job, don't blast the other guys for doing theirs.

"But no, they sat on their asses and merrily let the Republicans bring the country to its knees instead of being the party of No."

The Bush tax cuts were passed through the reconciliation process that is why they expire in 2011. The Dems could not have done anything to have prevented them.
The war in Iraq was approved because the info fed to Congress by Bush was a lie but no one in the Senate knew it at the time.
I'm not trying to say Democrats are blameless but the blame they bare then and now is for not standing up stronger to the Republicans, new leadership in both houses is needed.

Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in right now if they had been doing their job.

Again it is the Dems fault that the Republics passed deficit budgets when they were in control.

A-fricking-mazing.

The party of "responsibility" responsibly placing blame on someone else.

Guess the Democrats have learned nothing from two governor's elections and one senate election recently. If they continue with their "business as usual" stance, their chances for reelection in November 2010 will change from slim to none.

we are corporate whores if you pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaze.

we are corporate whores if you DON'T pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease...

"Too bad, so sad. Pass the damn Bill!'

Of course when 1994 happens all over again, you will be eating those words. But I agree, pass the bill as it stands today. It will be the staple repubs need to get back the majority. The GOP will be using the tapes of the dems slapping themselves on the back and congratulating each other.

The sooner the bill is passed the better. Even in its current incarnation the bill provides a far better framework for Healthcare coverage than our current non-system. Also, bottom line is the GNOP are going to bash the bill no matter what it contains, so the Democrats might as well get this over with and move on to the next issue.

While this may not be a "winning issue" for the Democrats for the next elections, the sooner they get it over and done with, the sooner it can become old news.

Yes, please pass this bill post haste!

-AHIP

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2010-01-26 09:09 AM | Reply | Flag Brain of a Speed Bump

lets see now pass it with changes means it must go back to the senate, change the rules and you turd bag loonies are out!

Time for them to put up or shut up.

#6 | Posted by 726 at 2010-01-26 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you realize we just completed the 3rd year of a democratic controlled congress?

They need to use reconcilliation but they need to be dicks about it and strip the bill of every republican idea that they allowed them to poison it with because they thought they could get a vote or two out of them.

Think of how nice it would be if they passed it in 6 or 8 pieces and explained to the public exactly what it meant everytime they did it. For example, they could call a press conference and say "This law will abolish preexisting conditions, so if your insurance company finds out you were the victim of domestic violence they aren't allowed to dump you anymore" and then dare the fuckers to vote against it.

Winning is easy when you want to win.

Nogov, what Repub ideas wold those be.

"Do you realize we just completed the 3rd year of a democratic controlled congress?"

I do, Reid and Pelosi should be replaced with new leaders. They have done a terrible job and have led us to a ridiculous position considering the Dem majority and the President hasn't helped much either.

danni,

Any chance for getting the Repubs to go along with any type of Health Care reform was lost in the beginning when Obama gave Reed and especially Pelosi control over writing the Bill.

It didn't make sense for the Repub to work with Obama if his administration wasn't leading the effort to write the Bill and they told him it was a mistake. Early last year Pelosi told the republicans that their input wasn't required.

The republicasn where scared to death after the election and Obama blew it because he lack the experience to Lead.

It really isn't his fault, his only experience was the recent election and giving speeches to move people into action. This works fine during an election but is only a small part when you govern. What is shocking is that he still believes that he can give a speech and get results from it.

They need to use reconcilliation but they need to be dicks about it and strip the bill of every republican idea that they allowed them to poison it with because they thought they could get a vote or two out of them.

Pleae Please use reconciliation. I would love to see the Dems pass the bill. It is so much better running against a bad law than the defeated bill.

I pray they don't give up. It has actually been a pleasure watching MSLSD. Their ratings must be up a tick lately. Never before have so many people been so wrong on so many issues all at once, and as an added bonus, making it so obvious that even the idiots get it. A true joy.

The marxist congress, senate and white house know that their time is short, the Supreme Court will shoot this bill down, or the American people will. That obamanation will not stand, not without a war.
You fuckturds on the left cannot force an American to pay the way for some parasite.
November WILL be hell on the marxists one way or another.
Fuck the incompetent and thief in the white house, he could'nt lead a dog down the sidewalk.

America will find out soon enough that all these years of medicaide , medicare and social security has been nothing more than a slush fund for the marxists, and there WILL be hell to pay.

YES please Fall on that SWORD, you cowardly bunch of pant pissers. what ever you do can be un done after the next election and if this will get your sorry ass out go for it!

The Democrats should cut their losses and walk away from Health Care. If they pass it in the current form (Senate Plan) then they are toast and the funny thing is the Republicans can then repeal it without any fallout (since the Dems delayed most of the benefits for a few years so they could keep it deficit neutral for CBO 10yr numbers).

The Democrats should cut their losses and walk away from Health Care. If they pass it in the current form (Senate Plan) then they are toast and the funny thing is the Republicans can then repeal it without any fallout (since the Dems delayed most of the benefits for a few years so they could keep it deficit neutral for CBO 10yr numbers).

#25 | Posted by laj

Please, please do not let them know this!!! They don't get it, and it will be far better if they rip each other apart, then let we the people finish the job. Hopefully they won't change a thing and keep moving forward.

Please, just keep going with the Health Scare Reform. The Mass. elections were fun to watch, as was the reactions afterward. November will be even more fun. Of course the Dems couldn't get it passed while they had the "filibuster proof" majority, I'm not sure how they expect to get it passed now. It was never the Republicans standing in their way, but other Democrats that had to be bought off before they would join up. Some great bill, eh? Once again the American public, and the world, will watch the Democrats stroking and fucking each other to another "consensus," acting like the whores they are.

Nogov, what Repub ideas wold those be.

#18 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at

Well you see, there are these things called "committees" that are made up of members from both parties, and in order to move a bill through....

Nevermind, I'm pretty sure you know how it works. What you are you implying is that not one republican ammendment was added in committee. You are saying that not one republican showed up for work while the democrats in the senate were attempting to reform health care and also that the democrats didn't compromise 1 time to try to gain the vote of at least 1 republican.

NoGov4Me,

You are correct that republicans added more amendments to the bill then democrats but that is because republicans had no input in the writing of the original bill. It was done by democrats only and then republicans could only amend the original product. If you want something to be bi-partisan than you need to have them in the room from the beginning. Make them part of the actual product you are trying to produce not just letting them decide where the drink holder might go.

The Senate Bill contains several amendments by Repubs who put up 80 something amendments for votes.

But it became obvious that they were more interested in defeating the Pres than defeating soaring health care costs, and that none of them would vote for it no matter what it contained.

The CBO trashed the one "Bill" Repubs sent them for markup, and the rest of the public laughed it out of consideration.

These backboners are going to screw up America if they manage to get the House to swallow the Senate Bill. Are Liberals that clueless? Don't they understand we don't want Obamacare? Don't they understand it will cost them seats in November? Knock it off.

#31 | Posted by member2586 at 2010-01-26 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag: Has mouse in pocket

The war in Iraq was approved because the info fed to Congress by Bush was a lie but no one in the Senate knew it at the time.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-26 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Are you kidding or are you really that fucking stupid?

#32 | Posted by Corky | Flag: As always has head burriend up ass.

I present to you the Repub Bill:

I guess if anyone really wants to know if Republicans were involved in the meetings on health care they can simply review the CSPAN tapes, since Obama promised that it would all be transparent.

But no, they sat on their asses and merrily let the Republicans bring the country to its knees instead of being the party of No.

Great job, dems. Just because you failed to do your job, don't blast the other guys for doing theirs.

Wow! Did you just say it was the job of the Republicans to bring this country to it's knees?

By God I think you finally said something I can agree with Mr Bipartisan!

There were literally hundreds of hours of House and Senate hearings and meetings on health care televised by CSPAN.

I watched Rethugs argue for hours to get their amendments included in a Bill they had no intention of voting for.

And patient, tolerant Dems sat there and let them do it in the name of bipartisanship, only to have the mealy-mouthed cowards renege on any sort of honest participation.

#32 | Posted by Corky | Flag: As always has head burriend up ass.

I know it upsets you, but, better me than you.

WASHINGTON Two centrist senators Tuesday threw up a roadblock to salvaging President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, as Democrats agonized over whether to push forward or shift to idle until political resistance subsides.

evil reps.

"There were literally hundreds of hours of House and Senate hearings and meetings on health care televised by CSPAN."

Wrong-oh, butthead, but leave you to completely miss current events and news. I doubt you could even find CSPAN on your TV.

=bill largely behind closed doors

Let me repeat for the hard up for lucidity.....

"There were literally hundreds of hours of House and Senate hearings and meetings on health care televised by CSPAN."

They were televised day after day after day... and I watched many of the votes.

#32 | Posted by Corky | Flag: As always has head burriend up ass.

#34 | Posted by member2586

And still has the Vacancy Sign lit.

"And patient, tolerant Dems sat there and let them do it in the name of bipartisanship..."

Tolerant? In the name of bi-partisanship? How about in the name of the Senate rules?

Go ahead I dare you!

Liberals tune out Mass. message
So can they hear us now?

This from a state that elected Deval Patrick governor and, just a year ago, gave Barack Obama a 26-point win....

Mobs Rule" was the headline for New York Times [NYT] columnist Charles Blow. "Welcome to the mob: an angry, wounded electorate, riled by recession, careening across the political spectrum, still craving change, nursing a bloodlust."

These ignorant voters who are "too easily manipulated" acted in irrational anger, Blow insists. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Team Obama's first year in office has been a stumbling, inept and expensive mess.

When confronted with the fact that Brown ran against Obamacare, denounced the president's policy on captured terrorists and opposes Obama's planned tax increases, Gibbs replied: "That may be what he campaigned on but that's not why the voters of Massachusetts sent him to Washington."

You elected the 41st "no" vote, but you were saying "yes" to Obamacare. You replaced Ted Kennedy with a Republican, but you really wanted more liberalism.

Boy, Massachusetts really must have the dumbest voters ever. We can't seem to do anything right - not even send a message to Washington. But I think we voters are getting the message liberal Democrats are sending back to us.

Insult some more voters, maybe that will help!

Remember, Mass. was all Bush's fault.

Anybody know the definition of "masochism"?

They should use reconciliation pass the bill and then announce that this will be business as usual from now on with the Party of NO.

#2 | Posted by danni

Oh please do.... Dems will be crucified if they do.

Once again Danni does not have a freaking clue.

You must be so powerless in both your personal and business life that you live vicariously through the dems, who are now in power. Or was your Mother/Father a Republican and you have Mommy/Daddy issues?

WOW , how pathetic....

Remember, Mass. was all Bush's fault.

#47 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Wait until November. Bush is going to rain down a shitstorm.

Pass the bill this way...

...and get ready to welcome a nuclear winter for all Democrats.

The electorate will never trust the Party of the People with so much power again.

Do it.

Reminds me of the Captain of the Titanic telling the Passengers that they had a fouled plug in #3 cylinder...

The GNOP leadership has had no interest in bipartisanship on this issue

Bipartisanship?

By that do you mean - "Shove this shit up the ass of your constituency!"???

The GOP has been completely shut-out of this process, in any meaningful way, since April of 2009.

All, and I mean ALL of the bickering and comprimising on this attrocity has come from 1 party.

The Dems are solely responsible for this shit not passing - which is actually a compliment to them, even though they don't take it as such.

Passing it now will require such a degree of corruption and trickery that will make the 'Cornhusker-kickback', the 'Louisiana Purchase' and the 'Union Blowjob' (my term) seem like throwing a couple of pennies into the Salvation Army red-kettle by comparison.

Essentially, the house will have to agree to pass the senate bill as is. Then, the senate (in order to placate the house) will have to pre-emptively agree to certain house demands that will be proposed as seperate bills (ammendments) to the original bill. It's all a sleight-of-hand - manipualting the rules to achieve a desired end - the public be-damned!

Obamacare in its current form and its many slightly-changed, spin-off variants, suck ass in a huge way. Why in the hell would a blue-dog Dem, much less a Republican, support a piece-of-shit legislation that is currently sitting at 35% approval?

It is my belief that republicans are idiots and don't realize that their is a need for healthcare reform. We as Dems must teach them whether they like it or not.

"The war in Iraq was approved because the info fed to Congress by Bush was a lie but no one in the Senate knew it at the time."

Don't apologize on behalf of fools. I didn't fuckin' buy that line of BS, and I'm just a citizen. Unless the information that they had access to was _much_ more convincing, the so-called leaders in Congress were either stupid or were kowtowing to some sense of the citizenry's patriotism. I'm not sure which is worse.

Congress FUCKED UP with the War Powers Act, as they did with the Patriot Act (and No Child Left Behind, but I digress).

I want leaders who lead, not who bend with polls or do what's expedient. (And yes, I know some of the people I've voted for over the years are as guilty as the next guy or gal.)

As others have pointed out here again and again, the Republican/Democrat partisanship is silly. And counterproductive. They all do stupid shit sometimes. They are human. The system needs work, and I'm not sure how that work will get done given the self-interest of those who need to vote to make reform happen.

"It is my belief that republicans are idiots and don't realize that their is a need for healthcare reform. We as Dems must teach them whether they like it or not."

In the spirit of good will, in an attempt to assist a poorly educated "liberal" succeed in his desire to "teach," please allow me to provide you with a short lesson"

The word, "their," is a possessive pronoun and is used something like this: "Liberals just don't realize that THEIR politics aren't as popular as they think."
You intended to use the word, "there," which is generally used to denote a place or position, such as in, "Those progressives should have learned something from the election up THERE in Massachusetts."

No need to thank me...and good luck with your desire to become a teacher.

That was funny, Jest. I don't agree with your politics, but that was funny. (Though if I said it to the usual suspects, they'd yell at me for being a grammar nazi or a spelling cop.)

It still amazes me that EVERYONE is looking past the real problem!
Congress is supposed to represent the people, NOT tell us what they think is best for us.

There is NO legit poll that shows we, as a country, are in favor of this turd of a "reform" bill.

The left can yell & bitch all they want, the right can yell & bitch all they want. The bottom line is that congress is derelict in their duties if this bill passes. The population has more than made it clear that this is not wanted.
There is no other argument to be had. They need to do their job & represent us & that means killing this bill as it stands.

I know that it will infuriate people here just by me posting but they can gofuck themsleves.

report is that there is a back room deal in the works with a letter sent to the house from dem senators telling them they pledge to 'FIX" the bill after it passes.
typical horseshit from facists

They should use reconciliation pass the bill and then announce that this will be business as usual from now on with the Party of NO.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2010

sure why not

then the facists fuckers will be out of a job. then the party of no as you put it...right out of democrat talking point bullshit LIE...can repeal all of it.

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-01-27 08:40 AM
***"Obamacare in its current form and its many slightly-changed, spin-off variants, suck ass in a huge way. Why in the hell would a blue-dog Dem, much less a Republican, support a piece-of-shit legislation that is currently sitting at 35% approval?"

Please describe what it is "specifically" that makes this current bill a "piece of shit"???

Anyone, please. As I have read the recent bill, and I really want to know what about it has so many people up in arms...

Once again: "SPECIFICS"...

#60 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-01-27 11:13 AM
***"then the facists fuckers will be out of a job"

Yeah, I totally hate the "FACISTS" too!!!

FACIST: those who endorse "FACES"

Oh, and the NOTZEES really tick me off as-well...

#58 | Posted by seedeez2 at 2010-01-27 10:16 AM
***"There is NO legit poll that shows we, as a country, are in favor of this turd of a "reform" bill."

Please show me one valid poll where Americans are "firmly against" this Bill...

***"The population has more than made it clear that this is not wanted."

Please link... (real info, not Faux-Facts)

***"There is no other argument to be had. They need to do their job"

Except the pesky argument that Americans want healthcare reform (65% of us) and this is what they are working for. So, I guess, in a very real sense; Congress is doing their job...

I was just informed last night that my 70 yr old Aunt who has been in the hospital for about 2 weekswas told that Medicare would no longer cover her hospital stay.

She needs about 10 more days in isolation but Medicare will only pay for a transition location.

Medicare will cover the IV Antibiotics but they won't cover any of the required equipment to administer it, tubing, pump, saline.

For all of you who say we need single payer because insurance companys don't cover you when you get sick. It happens with the Federal Govt also.

For all of you who say we need single payer because insurance companys don't cover you when you get sick. It happens with the Federal Govt also.

Don't call it a "Death Panel" though. That phrase wigs the lefties out. They like softer, more multi-syllabic terms like "Office of the Pragmatic Determination of Termination of Medical Care Based on Long Term Prognostic Procedures and Related Applications". Yeah, I know, they do the same thing as "Death Panels", but it sounds better, DYK?

(I hope George Carlin would've been proud)

Don't call it a "Death Panel" though.

No fucking shit!

Jesus.

A 'death panel' is the end-result of each and every government-run healthcare 'system' ever enacted.

From what I know, the death panels nomenclature comes from the idea that end-of-life counseling would mean yanking care from the elderly, making them die because of rationing of care. Shouldn't a doctor talk about all the possibilities, positive and negative? And Russell, you might have a point, or you might not. Just because one medicare fiasco occurs, does that mean that all gov't-administered healthcare will be flawed? Hell, I know a Canadian who tells an amazing story about the care received by his terminally ill wife (who had cancer), including in-home care, a hospital bed at home, rides to the hospital, no lines ever, etc. The five or six other Canadians with whom I've discussed the healthcare controversy also tell positive stories. Every single one of them. Hey, I've got a sample that's six or seven times the size of John Boehner's...

"A 'death panel' is the end-result of each and every government-run healthcare 'system' ever enacted."

See my #68. Do you have evidence or personally know people who will support your contention?

Prag,

Countless, and I mean countless testimonials to that effect exist from the UK.

lmao! Imagine all these folks suckered by PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'!

How trite.

60 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-01-27 11:13 AM
***"then the facists fuckers will be out of a job"

Yeah, I totally hate the "FACISTS" too!!!

FACIST: those who endorse "FACES"

#62 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus at

ah good one..
so imagine me at the blackboard writting 100 times

fascist
fascist
fascist

so call it by a different name but at least one version of democrat health care calls for govt panel to look at 'cost effectiveness'...
what would You call that oh great seer and used car salesman...

so imagine me at the blackboard writting 100 times

so the whole time I was typing this I had a picture of a catholic school girl reaching up writing this on the board with her little blue and white checkerboard skirt..

hmmmm not sure what this says about me but I have a feeling I am about to hear.

"A 'death panel' is the end-result of each and every government-run healthcare 'system' ever enacted."

As well as the end-result of every for-profit system. What's your point?

"so call it by a different name but at least one version of democrat health care calls for govt panel to look at 'cost effectiveness'...
what would You call that"

Currently, the insurance company's decision.

It's a matter of degree, Danforth.

Currently, the insurance company's decision

you should remember that these are policies that are approved by each state's insurance department. It doesn't make it ethical but it doesn't completely shut out the govt's complicity in these decisions either.

"It's a matter of degree, Danforth."

Death is a matter of degree? It's the same damn thing: one group, or another, decides the limits.

This is what pisses me off the most about this debate: when folks use universal factors to "prove" their point. Fears of rationing? It's coming, regardless. "Death Panels"? They already exist. Costs will rise? No shit, Sherlock.

"you should remember that these are policies that are approved by each state's insurance department."

You mean these Death Panels?

Danforth,

Are these "death panels" doing something illegal?

seriously, perhaps some insurance companies (rightfully so) have been charged with crimes. I don't know.

Danfoth,

The 'degree' of rationing that we currently experience in our somewhat privately-run healthcare system is NOTHING when compared with what the European-socialist democracies experience.

Having said that, with Medicare benies booming and a shortage of payers-in we ARE going to experience similar problems here; private-sector be damned. You are correct. What makes your advocacy so maddening is that these problems are largely a product of artificial governmental contstructs (like Medicare) and instead of acknowledging the cost-creating problem you are advocating MORE of the same.

"Countless, and I mean countless testimonials to that effect exist from the UK."

Such as...? Without evidence, it's just rhetoric. I can claim the opposite just as readily, but I have no evidence one way or the other. But witness the rhetoric regarding Canada--my friends alone prove it untrue as a widespread reality. So is your UK evidence a repeated canard or actual fact? I don't know.

This article is from the "Investor's Business Daily." It provides some very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

"Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:

U.S. 65%

England 46%

Canada 42%

Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:

U.S. 93%

England 15%

Canada 43%

Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:

U.S. 90%

England 15%

Canada 43%

Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:

U.S. 77%

England 40%

Canada 43%

Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:

U.S. 71

England 14

Canada 18

Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in "excellent health":

U.S. 12%

England 2%

Canada 6%"

I don't know about you, but I don't want "Universal Healthcare" comparable to England or Canada. It's good that they like their plans, but let's NOT copy them, OK?

"Are these "death panels" doing something illegal?"

Who said they were or weren't? My point is those pointing to HC reform and warning about resulting "Death Panels" are idiots untethered to reality.

In related news, if HC reform is passed, word is the sun will rise in the East.

My point is those pointing to HC reform and warning about resulting "Death Panels" are idiots untethered to reality.

okay, but I think the argument is that the "death panel" presence would be much greater and more severe in a single payer system.........as evidenced in other countries. don't get me wrong....I accept the other realities of better health in other countries.....but I think it is because those people value their health more than we do.

In related news, if HC reform is passed, word is the sun will rise in the East.

no doubt.

"The 'degree' of rationing that we currently experience in our somewhat privately-run healthcare system is NOTHING when compared with what the European-socialist democracies experience."

Prove it. And be sure to include the benefits of covering everyone while spending a lower percentage of GDP as a counterpoint.

"instead of acknowledging the cost-creating problem you are advocating MORE of the same."

WTF are you talking about? All I've advocated is real reform, addressing real problems. Like moving folks from ERs to GPs, and emphasizing personal responsibility and wellness. And without some counterpoint to the monopolistic practices of insurers, we're headed for another decade where health costs for the average worker wildly outpaces inflation. By that point, we'll be economically doomed.

The "ebil gubmint" already covers 40% of the insured, with relatively few problems. Medical inflation is no where the problem within Medicare as it is elsewhere. And since that covered 40% is only slated to rise with the baby boomers retiring, if we don't get a handle on the costs, we're dead.

"but I think the argument is that the "death panel" presence would be much greater and more severe in a single payer system"

Well, there's a bullshit talking point if I ever heard one.

"I think it is because those people value their health more than we do."

You're right, and if we don't address that issue, even addressing all the rest is pissing in a wind.

Well, there's a bullshit talking point if I ever heard one.

I'm saying that is the argument. I'm not saying it would be as bad as some make it out to be.

lmao! Imagine all these folks suckered by PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'!

How trite.

#71 | Posted by Corky

Corky, it was the lefties all over Palin like a chicken on a June bug for allegedly using that term. So if there are any suckers connected with that term, they are the lefties for repeating it and associating it with Palin.

But then again, they actually believed and repeated the "Russia from my back porch story (actually said by Tina Fey on SNL) and the inaccurate "Africa is a country" story, so I guess they'd just as easily fall for the Death panel story.

"it was the lefties all over Palin like a chicken on a June bug for allegedly using that term. So if there are any suckers connected with that term, they are the lefties for repeating it and associating it with Palin."

What a hoot: "allegedly using that term"

"They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

~Sarah Palin. (Speaking on her foreign policy cred)

Tine Fey did do the "can see Alaska from my house" joke but only after Sarah made the original statement.

It's kinda how when Gore sed he was "instrumental in helping to create the internet" the right turned that into the "Gore invented the internet" meme.

Be Well.

"It's very important when you consider even national-security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to our state."

Is that alleged enough for you?

#91 | Posted by Danforth

I was trying to soften it for corky, but OK, danforth, I'll take the kid gloves off.

Corky, it was the left accusing Palin of using that term, so it is definitely they who were suckered, not the right.

Thanks dan. That's what I wanted to say anyway, but you know what a tender little flower corky is.

She DID use the term, you stupid-ass goat botherer.

"it was the left accusing Palin of using that term"

Truthfully, and after she actually said it. Hardly an "accusation".

Truthfully, and after she actually said it. Hardly an "accusation".

Yes dan, no need to belabor it. I'm in full agreement with you. Which means we both know that corky was off base with his #71

She DID use the term, you stupid-ass goat botherer.

*sigh* Why even try with some people?

BTW, corky, what name will you be willing to put on the committee that decides whether it is cost effective to spend $250,000 to extend 85 YO granny's life an extra month? I agree "death panel" is harsh, but what would you be willing to call that group?

Or do you deny that it will even exist? LOL

"what name will you be willing to put on the committee that decides whether it is cost effective to spend $250,000 to extend 85 YO granny's life an extra month?"

Insurance Underwriter's Committee? Oh, wait...that's what it's called now....

"Or do you deny that it will even exist?"

You mean continue to exist, if under a different name.

And btw...whomever is making the decision to go ahead and spend a quarter-mil on another 31 days at age 85 is an ass, be it the woman, or the family, or the government.

You mean continue to exist, if under a different name.

My point exactly. Which is why I wonder about all the faux indignation from the left of the term "death panels" except that they are too weak and unwilling to call a spade a spade.

...whomever is making the decision to go ahead and spend a quarter-mil on another 31 days at age 85 is an ass

So you would be willing to pay 3, 4, 5 times as much to make sure all these terminally ill folks get another week or two of life? Do you not believe in the concept of diminishing returns?

Insurance Underwriter's Committee? Oh, wait...that's what it's called now....

more like "large ongoing open claim committee"

We need something. Too many Americans need coverage. Universal single payer should be what we get but that isn't in the cards for now anyways.

"Which is why I wonder about all the faux indignation from the left of the term "death panels""

Do you equally wonder about all the stupidity from the right pretending they don't exist now, and wouldn't exist but for Obamacare?

"So you would be willing to pay 3, 4, 5 times as much to make sure all these terminally ill folks get another week or two of life?"

No, just the opposite. But you've put your finger on the disconnect. No one wants the "ebil gubmint" to be making their medical decisions, but they don't want their taxes to rise, and they don't want to be told no, ever.

#104 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-01-28 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag

Thinks Medicare has death panels.

You're funny.

#105 -- he's right. Medicare does, the insurance companies do, and Obama care will too. They just won't be called Death Panels.

GOAT

Perhaps we should have a Pay-per-view with Sarah Palin and Kathleen Sebelius in the ring duking it out over naming rights:

"The Thrilla from Wasilla"

Hey, I'd pay to see that if they got nekkid and did it in the mud!

Now you guys are just bein' silly.

I don't remember what Sebelius looks like. But I've never really understood the Palin sexiness concept. I guess as politicians go...

I believe Danforth was suggesting that the way we do end-of-life now (we hannng on to eeevery last second of our miserable lives*) is not... sensible? Is that the right word, Danforth? At a certain point, we should let go? If that's what you mean, I applaud you for saying it out loud, so to speak? Are you so bold in daily conversation?

I do believe that families sometimes pressure their elderly relatives into holding on longer than said relatives otherwise might, into getting treatments they otherwise might not get, etc. This applies to people with horrible diseases, too. You know, like cancer. (I was very impressed with the parent I knew who decided continuing treatment was ridiculous, and left this world with grace.)

*Disclosure: Whether I myself would be able to let go is unknown. I expect it's in our natures, most of us.

I do believe that families sometimes pressure their elderly relatives into holding on longer than said relatives otherwise might, into getting treatments they otherwise might not get, etc. This applies to people with horrible diseases, too. You know, like cancer. (I was very impressed with the parent I knew who decided continuing treatment was ridiculous, and left this world with grace.)

*Disclosure: Whether I myself would be able to let go is unknown. I expect it's in our natures, most of us.

#109 | Posted by pragmatist

Agree with your comments---have worked with many families in the past and when they're educated about the possibilities most then make the right decisions--the problem is when some oncologists and/or surgeons aren't upfront with patients and their families (sometimes for their own benefit?) and give false hope.