Micro-management----no plan---reactive presidency.

Yes, please let's all have some more damn kids. That's what we need.

Hey I won't complain about a tax credit. Good for President Obama.

Hey I won't complain about a tax credit

Let's give one to everyone -- not just those popping out kids then.

Nice job by the President.

Just out of curiosity what's considered middle class in regards to yearly income?

It's not about having more kids... it is about taking care of the ones we have. Do you have any idea how much it cost to raise a child these days? I mean xbox's are $300 and each game is about 50 bucks and what about those monthly internet access fees?!

Seriously though...It is about the fact that the middle class is under assault. We need more tax breaks or at least some fairness in the tax code. If we destroy the middle class who will support the poor people? If we destroy the middle class who will work for the rich people?

And besides what is wrong with more kids? Are you anti-Life or something?

All medical bills should be fully deductible straight off your taxes. I you paid taxes and you had medical bills above and beyond your insurance then they should be fully deductible as should your insurance premiums and copays.

Let's give one to everyone -- not just those popping out kids then.

#4 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

I gotta disagree with that just because of the amount of money parents are always pumping back into the economy for these kids... Since that tax credit is probably just going to be flipped right back into clothing, food, toys, tuition, etc its actually a win-win situation for the economy and the parents

Donnerboy - Heh, of course it's expensive to raise a kid. So let's not give out any monetary incentives to have more. That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you that the middle class is under assault. So let's just give a tax to everyone - that seems more fair.

And please, if you can't afford to have kids - don't. It's not fair to them.

...the amount of money parents are always pumping back into the economy for these kids

It's a valid point, but I don't think we should give incentives to people to have more kids. If everyone got them regardless of reproductive habits they'd be benefitted just as well without putting more people on the planet

Just out of curiosity what's considered middle class in regards to yearly income?

#5 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

About $85,000.00

About $85,000.00

#11 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Oh well then nevermind... fuck off Obama! This is a stupid idea!

And please, if you can't afford to have kids - don't. It's not fair to them.

#9 | Posted by Chyess

Interestingly I had no trouble until recently. Interesting how my income has not kept up with inflation. Interesting how I cannot afford to do the same thing my parents (who made far less than me) could do.

But, of course that was my fault for not having a crystal ball that predicted the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Yeah we should blame have too many kids for that. After all they will be the ones paying for it anyway. Which is another good reason to have more kids. Someone has to clean up and pay for this mess that our generation made.

-D

FUNK DAT. Nobody's forcing these people to reproduce.

How about you give me a tax credit every time I take on something with a significant financial impact?

Give me some $$$ for being smart enough NOT to get my GF knocked up and being smart enough to realize how expensive kids can be and doing the responsible thing. No, help out the idiots who can't keep their legs closed and who keep breeding way beyond their ability to afford it.

"And please, if you can't afford to have kids - don't. It's not fair to them."

Two.

Private schools, college and enough cash out the door to have a life without debt if they played their cards right and were lucky, but not enough to be idle rich.

I'll think about what to do with their inheritance;
So far I'm holding it for them.
I feel successful, locally.
Best I can do.

I'll think about what to do with their inheritance;

I plan on spending my son's inheritance.

I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

Rob, I haven't had a chance to look into the details, but I would imagine the credit phases out at $250,000 for married people

For all those who say if you can't afford it don't have more kids? Umm you know the standard deduction you get for a kid is 3650? Then there is the current tax credit of 1000 so are you suggesting the cost of raising a kid is only 4650 a year? Thats flat bullshit and anyone with either a kid or an ounce of sense knows it.

I don't see what the beef is either raise the standard deduction for kids or give a tax credit to parents but if you don't you are punishing those who are raising the generation that will pay your SS your Medicare and your government debt.

Sounds like the same kind of short term quarterly profit over long term sustainability that our government and corporations have lived by for the past 40 years.

"the cost of raising a kid is only 4650 a year"

That's true only if it'a a goat.

Mares eat oats
And does eat oats
...

Rob, I haven't had a chance to look into the details, but I would imagine the credit phases out at $250,000 for married people

#18 | POSTED BY TAXMAN

Okay, that's a little better now... bravo Obama, thank you Mr. President!

When I found out that my kids were going to have to pay for all of this spending by congress I opened a bottle of champagne.

I've never been able to get them to pay for shit.

I could go on about this topic. My wife and I have two girls, (7/4.)

We care for our children without direct government programs, (WIC, Foodstamps, CHIP.)

If the Bamster gets this CTC, I will absolutely be able to put more of our income into the markets. GUARANTEED.

I work hard for my money. I build and install custum cabinets and furniture. Times have been uneasy for my Boss and his business, but we have made it through...so far.

W.'s doubling of the child tax credit was a great success and if Obama has his it will do good as well.

A vasectomy tax credit should be introduced to balance out the incentive created by an increased child tax credit. The best part is that I'd benefit from both!

A vasectomy tax credit should be introduced to balance out the incentive created by an increased child tax credit.

What better return could Uncle Sam get on his dollar? Pay for a $500 operation that ensures a $4.6k return the first year alone.

'A vasectomy tax credit should be introduced to...'

That would be great. My 30th birthday present to myself will be getting snipped. 18 months to go. I was planning on saving the money, but if the government wants to pay for it than fuck yeah!

Correction, the credit, as it stands today, begins to phase out at $110,000 AGI. I had never dealt with it until this year. I need to find a way to lower my AGI. Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?

'Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?'

That's pretty degrading. Must suck to be your wife.

Correction, the credit, as it stands today, begins to phase out at $110,000 AGI.

That's horseshit... fuck off Obama and your socialist agenda! lol

29 posts, and nobody has yet rung in to remind us that tax cuts in times of war are recklessly irresponsible.

Nice job by the President.

#5 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Don't spend it before you have it in your hand.

"29 posts, and nobody has yet rung in to remind us that tax cuts in times of war are recklessly irresponsible."

Only when given to the most productive workers, those making the most money. It's never fair to tax the proletariat.

does anyone here posting the comments like "give people a reason to have more kids" and crap like that even realize that the tax credit only applies to up to 3 children?

"Then there is the current tax credit of 1000 so are you suggesting the cost of raising a kid is only 4650 a year? Thats flat bullshit and anyone with either a kid or an ounce of sense knows it."

While it might not be enough for to raise a child it is more than I can deduct. With this deduction, I am paying more in taxes for the kids elementary, and high school education than the parents. Don't misread me I don't mind being taxed for education. I just don't think I should be paying more than the parents.

Listening to parents complain about schools running out of money, while getting this deduction brings out my crocodile tears.

Just to clarify:

The $1000 is a tax credit, sometimes refundable even if you owe no other taxes.

The $3650 is the equivalent of a tax deduction, which means the benefit is according to one's marginal rate. In the 10% bracket, it's worth $365. In the 25% bracket, it's worth $912.

Donnerboy - Heh, of course it's expensive to raise a kid. So let's not give out any monetary incentives to have more. That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you that the middle class is under assault. So let's just give a tax to everyone - that seems more fair.

And please, if you can't afford to have kids - don't. It's not fair to them.

#9 | Posted by Chyess at 2010-01-25 08:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah. No more kids. Not that your taxes will decrease; somebody has to pay for services as new immigrants (both legal and uh, undocumented) keep showing up to share the American dream. Just don't expect them to stop having more kids. But, on the bright side, eventually they will become the majority and it will be their problem.

so im banging my wife and thinking should I pull out? NAAAAHHHH the govt will give me back an extra $1000 per year for another kid!

welcome to preggo land baby!

Yeah. No more kids. Not that your taxes will decrease; somebody has to pay for services as new immigrants (both legal and uh, undocumented) keep showing up to share the American dream. Just don't expect them to stop having more kids. But, on the bright side, eventually they will become the majority and it will be their problem.

#36 | Posted by MACV1972

for the record immigrants are already the majority, like 99% of the population or so.

for the record immigrants are already the majority, like 99% of the population or so.

#38 | Posted by clemens at 2010-01-26 06:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

Only if you maintain that native American Indians are the only non-immigrants; but, then, they likely descended from people who migrated here as well. My fam goes back before the American Revolution; earliest we know of living in this country died in Calvert County in the then Province of Maryland between Octocber 1693 and March 1694. I am 11th generation (10th generation born in this country). I don't consider myself an immigrant. How about you?

Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?

#27 | Posted by taxman at 2010-01-25 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow. I hope you're kidding about your wife being a stay-at-home mom who "bleeds you dry." If not, I have nothing but the deepest disgust for you. If so, ignore what follows.

You're a child, not a man, a pitiful piece of shit. Be a man and get your house in order. Stop being a whiny pussy. Yes, it hits a nerve. My wife stays home. But you know what, we entered the marriage with a full understanding of what we were getting into. I work and she stays home for the first 5 years. After that, we both work. She's an amazing woman. Our daughter doesn't have to be farmed out to a stranger because she has her mother at home. My wife takes care of the house and I bring in the income right now. Believe me, we'd love to have two incomes considering that we both have law school debt, but our daughter's future is more important than either of our careers.

Again, if you were joking, ignore my diatribe. If not, go to hell. Your wife deserves a better, stronger man.

and this will be paid for how?

Sounds like the "party of choice" only when it pertains to killing kids.

You tools are hilariously inconsistent.

Enjoy your childless society when you sharia law!

1. Nearly Doubling the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit for middle class families making under $85,000 a year. This is accomplished by increasing their tax credit rate from 20% to 35% of qualifying expenses. The value of the tax credit nearly doubles for all families making under $85,000 a year, and every family that makes under $115,000 will see their tax credit increase.
Additionally, for families struggling to join the middle class, the administration will provide a $1.6 billion increase in child care funding, the largest one-year increase in 20 years, to help an additional 235,000 children.
2. Limiting a student's federal loan payments to 10 percent of his or her income above a basic living allowance. This will lower payments for hundreds of thousands of students, who are struggling to make ends meet coming out of college.
3. Creating a system of automatic workplace IRAs, requiring all employers to give the option for employees to enroll in a direct-deposit IRA.
4. Expanding tax credits to match retirement savings and enacting new safeguards to protect retirement savings, making it easier for families to plan for retirement.
5. Expanding support for families balancing work with caring for elderly relatives, helping them manage their multiple responsibilities and allowing seniors to live in the community for as long as possible.

Let's give one to everyone -- not just those popping out kids then.

Why? Tax rates are already historically low, this credit is for care for children so that parents can go out and be productive members of society thereby increasing tax income.

Good move by the POTUS... he needs to refocus his attention on the middle class.

and this will be paid for how?

Tax cuts pay for themselves or haven't you been listening to the wing ding talking points?

Why?

See post # 10

>...but I don't think we should give incentives to people to have more kids.

Ha! Definition of irony. It's just a matter of time.

Gimme, gimme, gimme. Guess if you're not a kid, you can always act like one.

Enjoy!

This is what happens when you try to negotiate with people who scream "NO!" at yoiu everytime you try to talk, even when you say controversial things such as "hello", "good morning", "how are you today", etc.

If everyone got them regardless of reproductive habits they'd be benefitted just as well without putting more people on the planet

It is not a credit to have more children, it is a credit to rebate some of the costs of child care. In order to claim the child care credit you have to a) have a job so that you cannot care for the children yourself and b) pay for day care.

It is not the same thing as the child tax credit.

Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?

LOL!

so are you suggesting the cost of raising a kid is only 4650 a year?

Are you suggesting that the cost of raising your kid is our problem?

Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?

Have your wife designate herself a charity, then you can deduct your payments to her as charitable deductions. Since she is bleeding you dry, that is like dontating blood to the red cross.

>Are you suggesting that the cost of raising your kid is our problem?

YES!!!

Who do you think works for your sorry, lazy ass when you're an old fuck? Geez you fucking people couldn't be any dumber.

Earth to dumbfucks: it's not all about you!

This is a covert tax cut for the lower class.

Watch out for the hammer that's in his other hand behind his back, upper middle class !

It sounds to me like a certian POTUS is trying to raise his sagging popularity numbers. Nothing more. If it would be beneficial to his ego to lower the tax credits he would do that also.

#40 | Posted by Unisphere at 2010-01-26 07:41 AM | Reply | Flag: hasn't been here long enough and doesn't understand sarcasm

P.S. I probably take better care of my wife and appreciate her more than you do yours, loser. My wife gave up an awesome career which she enjoyed fully in exchange for staying home with our son - a "jobe" that is certainly more difficult job than playing desk jockey all day. Go fuck yourself and keep your "marriage tips" between you and your wife.

"job"

Obama is In a real predicament. In his speech tomorrow he will either swing toward the right or middle and acknowledge that his agenda is too aggressive and not what the people want or he wll will move more left and rationalize why he needs to push harder and shove his agenda through and that the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy is causing a Buzzsaw of opposition.

Eiher way he loses.

Eiher (sic) way he loses

They said the same thing about Clinton when he moved to the middle.

This a great idea because we know how many jobs those kids create. Brilliant.

How about a single guy credit? Single people, like myself, have to pay for everything on their own. There is no double income and splitting of bills and we could use a little help come tax time too.

GOOD NEWS THOUGH

remember a PROMISE from obama during campaign

no bid contracts are "completely unacceptable"

OOPS>.

I guess someone forgot to remind him

Micro-management----no plan---reactive presidency.

#1 | Posted by matsop

ya... we will be "reacting" to the last 8 years for decades.

donner

hey you could work at the white house..thats all they can come up with...STILL...........

so if you DO work at the white house..
get me into a state dinner....

OH YEAH
LAST 8 years.

so you are including the first year of obama in that???

good for you.

*hee hee*

And I should support bad decisons by breeders? I didn't tell them to have children If they make that decision, they are responsible, not society, unless you righties are actually a bunch of socialists.......

Its bad enough I get raped to send other people's spawn to our shitty public education system.

You have kids, you pay for them, don't come begging.

My idea for years has been to take the child tax credit out of the parents hands and give it directly to the school districts in their area.(Actually I'd like to abolish it altogether)

does anyone here posting the comments like "give people a reason to have more kids" and crap like that even realize that the tax credit only applies to up to 3 children?

Thier your goddamn children, raise them yourselves!!

HOw about a tax cut for single and 0 dep and 150k/yr. Everybody wants to balance the budget on our backs. Fuck you breeders!

I'm being ass raped by taxes paying for breeder services like this tax cut and schools. You fucked, I Pay. If that ain't socialism, what is?

I'm being ass raped by taxes paying for breeder services like this tax cut and schools. You fucked, I Pay. If that ain't socialism, what is?

#68 | Posted by fresno500 at

Do you benefit from an educated society?

Do you benefit from an educated society?

Yes I did and my parents were happy to pay taxes.

Why the hell do I have to pay?

you benefit from the people around you being educated.

sorry if you cant understand that.

No sale. If you have kids, by all means pay your share.

This is welfare for breeders. As a matter of fact, if you have kids, I would like to see an addtional tax (on the parents) to support the infrastructure required for their spawn.

This is kin to women making a man pay child support on a kid thats not his.

If the people in the society around you are NOT educated you will pay more in taxes to cover additional societal needs i.e. prison and the criminal justice system, welfare benefits.

PLUS

Educated workers pay more taxes.

Who do you think works for your sorry, lazy ass when you're an old fuck?

#53 | Posted by happyending

I don't need your dumb ass kid to support me. I've already managed to provide for my retirement without anyone's help, including the government.

On the other hand, you obviously can't even afford to pay for your own sperm dump.

I disagree. Stop rewarding them and the birth rate WILL come under control.

uneducated people need more public services, period.

i am sorry you cant understand that.

Educated people make more money, contribute MORE to society.

i am sorry you cant understand that.

uneducated people are more prone to crime.

I am sorry you cant understand that.

What I do understand is because you continue to push out more xerox copies of yourself, I have to pay for it.

There is no way in hell I should be involved.

I guess you missed how the tax credit is capped at 3 kids.

Not like you would just jump to conclusions, now would you.

Then pay your 3 kids share without the tax cuts and other pro-breeder exemptions.

Breeders are getting as many tax breaks as corporations. And they are the problem!

fuck off Obama and your socialist agenda! lol

#29 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2010-01-25 09:45 PM | Reply

Yes Obama Fuck Off you light skinned piece of shit

The "tax break phases out after 3 kids" argument is stupid. Less than 4% of families have more than 3 kids, so in effect this law still applies to 99% of all kids.

and this will be paid for how?

#41 | Posted by semtex111 at

Certainly not by the breeders.

Everyone here was a child at some point. Nice things being said about "parents", we all have them. I couldn't wait until I had dependents to actually get some of my taxes back; I do not agree with the amount the gov't takes; that is the argument; flat tax??? Everyone gets the same percent - no more brackets - no more loopholes - no corporate deals - the little people can't afford loopholes.

The gov't needs to give the billions to the country, not the banks, stock markets, corporations. If you had money in your pocket and bank, you would buy buy buy ... fix the economy, supply and demand. We have to have money to buy cars from the auto makers; to deposit in the banks; to pay the credit cards; to buy merchandise; that would stimulate the economy, not the corporations in bailout. Send everyone in the country $250,000; that will stimulate the economy.

and this will be paid for how?

#41 | Posted by semtex111 at

The same way the Bush tax cuts were paid for.

I am appalled that so many of you think all people are like this. You must, to be so glib and pointed in your replies. I am a father to three children, one with disabilities, who has recently lost most of her services and may not even get to go to school because of cuts. My wife can't work, because we lost so many nursing hours that there is no one to take care of my daughter, and her disability payments are pathetic. I know people will probably think I am screaming for a handout, but let me make something clear here, I have a tv that barely works so the kids can watch PBS, their only televised entertainment. We have no game consoles at all, no home computer, cell phones that do the bare minimum in case of an emergency where we have to get my daughter to the hospital, and an increase to the child tax credit could ensure that my children have clothes, food, and medications that they not only need, but deserve. I don't think this is something I am entitled to, I think it is something THEY are entitled to. If you have never had to beg change to buy milk for your kids, then you just don't goddamn understand.

...may not even get to go to school because of cuts

What kind of school? College? Certainly not public school because by law every child is guaranteed an education, even if it means a 1:1 teacher/student relationship. If you are being told otherwise, you'll have no problem finding a lawyer pro bono who can fix that problem with a single letter to the school district.

#85 | Posted by Ichaerus

I have four children of my own and can sympathize with you, but I also understand the point of view of people without children. I will say that in my experience, many people in your position also receive the earned income tax credit. Effectively paying no federal income taxes and in some cases receiving someone else's taxes in the form of a "return". Hypothetically you could receive your neighbors(who has no children) taxes. I agree that your children deserve better, but is that your neighbors responsibility or yours?

If this offends you on a personal level because of your children, I apologize, but you brought them into this.

PS -- if in Texas, let me know via email. I have a cousin who is a bulldog bitch lawyer and loves writing letters like this. Her parents and brother are both educators and she herself practices educational law albeit usually as an advocate of the school. But she feels very strongly about education and if the school in question is a client of her firm, she'll find someone else to write the letter. LOL

I would liked to have had another child, but I couldn't afford it at the time. Now that I can, I am too old (not to mention 'fixed' LOL) to do it. But yet there are people who want their kids and the government to pay for them. If I (and now my siblingless son) made that sacrifice due to money issues, it seems others could do so as well.

I'm sure all the unemployed parents out there will be tickled pink that they get to keep a little more of nothing :)

Scrap the tax code all together. Bring on a flat tax that taxes all money brought into the household. Everybody needs to pay something into the system. Giving a tax credit to a targeted segment is nothing more than robbing Peter to pay Paul. What this proposes is rewarding those who ignored their financial abilities with money from those who were more responsible. And after this, what's next. ....sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.

Populism at its finest. Why would he make a doubling of tax credit incentives for having children when he has tasked the EPA with reducing carbon footprint?

i do raise my kids and i also pay my taxes and when my kids grow up they shall also pay their taxes and just as i am doing for your parents and grand parents paying their social security so go fuck your self and just remember if everyone stopped having kids like you suggest there would be no one to make the wheel chair that you will eventually find your self strolling down the road in. and in that case your old ass would be stuck face down begging for someone to pick you up.

Do you people even understand this tax credit or do you just like knee jerk reactions? If you have a dependent who you have to pay other people to take care of (either a child, an elderly person, or other) while you work, the government will give you a little break on what you owe them in taxes.

In the long run, they win, because if you have to choose between paying for care and working, they want you to work. If you work, you will pay taxes and the business you work for will pay payroll taxes. You're also paying for someone else to do work, so they're paying taxes and their employer is paying taxes. The government wins. If you don't work, the government makes less in taxes.

The credit isn't even really all that much. Assume you qualify for the full 35%. If you pay $15k in child or adult care expenses (not unreasonable in certain parts of the country), the government will give you a break on $5,250. If your tax bracket is 25%, then you save $1,312 on your taxes. Compare that to the $15k that you already paid out.

This is a non-refundable credit, so if you paid $0 to the government, you don't get money back.

IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. IT HELPS THE MIDDLE CLASS. GET OVER IT.

Can I expense my wife since she is a stay-at-home mom who bleeds me dry?

#27 | Posted by taxman at 2010-01-25 09:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow. I hope you're kidding about your wife being a stay-at-home mom who "bleeds you dry." If not, I have nothing but the deepest disgust for you. If so, ignore what follows.

You're a child, not a man, a pitiful piece of shit. Be a man and get your house in order. Stop being a whiny pussy. Yes, it hits a nerve. My wife stays home. But you know what, we entered the marriage with a full understanding of what we were getting into. I work and she stays home for the first 5 years. After that, we both work. She's an amazing woman. Our daughter doesn't have to be farmed out to a stranger because she has her mother at home. My wife takes care of the house and I bring in the income right now. Believe me, we'd love to have two incomes considering that we both have law school debt, but our daughter's future is more important than either of our careers.

Again, if you were joking, ignore my diatribe. If not, go to hell. Your wife deserves a better, stronger man.

#40 | Posted by Unisphere at 2010-01-26 07:41 AM | Reply | Flag:
^^^^

What? A stay-at-home-mom can't be a money hungry bitch who'll suck the life & money out of any man stupid enough to marry her?

Speaking from experience myself.

Luckily I wasn't married to her and luckily the sex was frequent enough to justify the "expense"...but when it got rediculous she was shown the door with a clear explanation of why.

Thank god I was able to give her the boot before the economy turned south and the money ran out....cos I'm sure she would have left on her own and denied me at least that satisifaction.

:)

I am appalled that so many of you think all people are like this. You must, to be so glib and pointed in your replies. I am a father to three children, one with disabilities, who has recently lost most of her services and may not even get to go to school because of cuts. My wife can't work, because we lost so many nursing hours that there is no one to take care of my daughter, and her disability payments are pathetic. I know people will probably think I am screaming for a handout, but let me make something clear here, I have a tv that barely works so the kids can watch PBS, their only televised entertainment. We have no game consoles at all, no home computer, cell phones that do the bare minimum in case of an emergency where we have to get my daughter to the hospital, and an increase to the child tax credit could ensure that my children have clothes, food, and medications that they not only need, but deserve. I don't think this is something I am entitled to, I think it is something THEY are entitled to. If you have never had to beg change to buy milk for your kids, then you just don't goddamn understand.

^^^
The agnst that the majority of people have with this and other social programs is that they're designed (intentionally or not) to be abused.

Sure they sometimes help those in need, but I have a feeling that there are far more who take advantage and consider it there career than those using the system as it's intended.

That's the rub of most of the issues everywhere, people taking what they consider "theirs" just because they can and the problem's too big to fix w/out people going into an uproar about it.

Catch-22.

Same as with Govt taxes/spending. incoming money is tracked it to the penny, outgoing is rounded to the next billion.

It's beyond absurd and at the high end of obscene.

But again, to try to change it would cause social & partisan outrage on both sides of the isle.

Both sides (finally bi-partisan support) would froth at the mouth that it would cause so many problems that things wouldnt get done in washington while totally ignoring the fact that nothing really IS getting done in washington.

Sucks to be us, hopefully we'll get by and get out of debt, but I have a feeling they'll call the notes due long before our eyes are level with top of the hole we've dug ourselves into.

Loh

Sure they sometimes help those in need, but I have a feeling that there are far more who take advantage and consider it there career than those using the system as it's intended.

Perhaps you should employ critical thinking and ask why you think 'sometimes' and 'far more.' Data doesn't back up your feelings. Once you've established a factual understanding you won't be a pawn by those exploiting bullshit for an ideology.

About $85,000.00

#11 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Oh well then nevermind... fuck off Obama! This is a stupid idea!

#12 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Classic!