Another link

What is behind Door #2??

How about Door #3???

From the link

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that the Senate will have to amend its version of a health-care reform bill before her chamber can pass it.

"I don't think it's possible to pass the Senate bill in the House," Pelosi told reporters after a morning meeting with her caucus. "I don't see the votes for it at this time."

Pelosi has been struggling for days to sell the Senate legislation to reluctant Democrats in order to get a health-care bill to the president's desk quickly. But moderates in her caucus have raised doubts about forging ahead without bipartisan support a challenge as the midterm election approaches while liberals rejected the Senate bill as not going far enough.

Poke it with a fork--it is done.

What a beautiful week this has been for our Republic.

It has been a great week for insurance companies and undertakers.

It has been a great week for insurance companies

Interesting and telling...

I'm curious.

I wonder if this legislation would have been successful had the end-game been to either:

A.) Lower costs

or

B.) Provide coverage for those who can't afford it

In other words, pragmatic ends arrived at via pragmatic public policy solutions.

Because I don't see that.

Rather, I see an irrational and ideological goal of "teaching the insurance companies a lesson"...or "reining them in". It seems like that's the template upon which the whole of this nonsense has been based.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - US House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said on Wednesday Democrats will push ahead with a sweeping healthcare overhaul...

CBS News - />
"We're not going to rush into anything," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev

Obama to Dems:Washington Post -
President Barack Obama is telling Democrats not to "jam" a health care overhaul bill through Congress, ...

So glad to see the leadership in DC all on the same page. Of course everyone knows it is all the fault of republicans for the mixed messages. Not to mention they are providing the rope which the dems are using to hang themseleves.

The damlibs over at MSNBC (only Maddow???) have been taking their LEGITIMATELY elected president to task for caving in to the uglies on nearly every occasion, surely including health care reforms. What we could pass right now if we damwell wanted to already amounts merely to the corporate revenue enhancement act of 2010. Turn over yet more of any improvements to lunatics like Scott Brown and we will lose any vestige of democracy in a Democratic regime. herm

Maosy

I would say that ideologues usually do have an ideological perspective.... but I'm not that kind of guy. ;^)

I see it as a pragmatic political solution evidenced by the fact that both Clinton and Obama took single payer off the table early on when insurers acquiesced early on to the fact that there would be a Dem Pres (they thought Clinton) and signaled their willingness to compromise when it was apparent they would be run over if they did not.

Lower costs and affordable coverage for Americans has been the goal since TR's Bull Moose Party in 1912, and for 6 Pres after that.

And while there are certainly partisan ideological bombs thrown from both sides, the reason Obama is in trouble on this is that he pissed off not only his ideological enemies, but his friends as well.

The MA vote consisted of people who did not want the current plan because they felt it went too far (43%) and felt it did not go far enough (48%).

With the GOP sitting on their hands, the Dems produced not a liberal Bill, no single payer, not even a popular (57%) public option, but a moderate pragmatic Bill that offended almost everyone (me included) but that would have and will provide insurance to 10's of million who don't have it and cut costs in the long run according to the CBO.

So, ideologues on both sides see what they want to see, and pragmatists can only sigh and hope for a common sense debate instead of the stale old rightwing Red-baiting and liberal condescension of "anti-intellectuals" as per usual.

At least somebody understands the memo from Tuesday.
Another celebration is in order. Bartender!

Damn. First, no public option. Now, NO option. And yet Corky still shills for his disorganized, incompetent buddies. Obama could give Corky a popsicle stick, a plastic glove, and a bottle of Robitussin, call it healthcare reform, and ol' Cork would fall to his knees and do the usual.

Cookfish prefers soft lights, soft tissues, a magnifying glass and padded tweezers, John Ashcroft singing, "Let the Eagle Soar!", and his autographed Senator Centerfold pic to get him in the mood.

But a considered political opinion? No one has ever seen him post one of those.

They better seat this guy right now!!

Did you see John Kerry's eyebrows? What's up with that?

Go back. Take out the new taxes. Leave the the pre-existing conditions provisions. Leave in the limits on out-of-pocket expenses. Add in Tort Reform. Take away the monopoly protetcts for the insurance companies. Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines. Create tax breaks for those who have to pay for the insurance on their own.

I am sure there are other things. But if they add in some of these things and take out some of the more radical things I am sure they can get Repubs to vote for it and they can pass it.

#15 | Posted by mysterytoy

He is due for another Botox injection.

Sawdust makes some good points but I believe many like Murphy would just prefer to leave well enough alone.

Actually --I am for health insurance reform.

Sawdust makes some great points and I would vote for that bill.

And let American buy drugs from Canada.

" 'Brave' Congressman Announces Opposition to Senate Health Bill...After Pelosi Drops It "

It's always fun to be accused of not supporting Health Care Reform because you oppose a current bill. An old Lefty trick, but Republicans want reform. Reform without paying off Unions, Big Pharma and fence sitting politicians. Reform that will lower Health Care costs of most Americans current plans. Reform that will not reward those in the Country illegally. And not at a price of hurting seniors.

-but Republicans want reform

Oh yeah, and how they showed it over the last 8 years.

"An old Lefty trick, but Republicans want reform."

The lefty trick is to make sure the repubs "never" get credit for any reforms on social issues, they somehow think they own. They tried to tackle Social Security and got hammered, they proposed Healthcare reform and Kennedy and the rest of the phonies made sure that was dead in the water. The last thing the dems want to see, is a workable bi-partisan idea from the repubs.

"They tried to tackle Social Security"

You referring to the brain-dead idea that people have an "opportunity" to put Social Security money into the stock market?

#24...

The brain dead idea was irrelevent. It was the fact dems immediately went on the attack, and would have reacted the same if the idea or proposal had merit.

Oh yeah, and how they showed it over the last 8 years.

#22 | Posted by Corky

Your Party needs some new talking points after Tuesday, Corky.
Are you going to blame the Novemeber shit storm that your Party is going to be standing in on the last 8 years too?

#26

Just the facts, ma'm.

#26

Just the facts, ma'm.

Riiiiiight!

You are going to argue that the unprecdented (R) victory in Midnight Blue Massachusettes was a product of angst againt the GOP????

So, the people of Mass. decided to punish the fecklessness of the GOP by electing...a Republican to replace the 40+-year holding of their seat by uber-liberal and staunch Democrat, Edward Kennedy???

That is your agrument???

-but Republicans want reform

Oh yeah, and how they showed it over the last 8 years

Nope. But I might advance you the money for a reading comprehension class.

Oh yeah, and how they showed it over the last 8 years.

#22 | Posted by Corky

Corky--

Repubs pushed through the Health Savings Accounts for businesses to do for their employees--pre-tax dollars.

That needs to be expanded to encourage people --individuals--to buy their own portable insurance and get the tax deduction or using pre-tax dollars.

That is your agrument???

#28 | Posted by JeffJ
Corky is hoping MediaMatters provides him a better arguement, but they're devoting their time to Sarvis.

That is your agrument???

#28 | Posted by JeffJ

No the argument is that the people in MA are angry and frustrated like all of America when they voted in Obama!!

The dems are in exile and they refuse to admit they are doing anything wrong.

The repubs got voted out 2006 and 2008.

And let's hope THEY are listening NOW to the voters as well.

The repubs have to gain our trust--they have said sorry and many are getting the message--but they are politicians.

Paul Ryan is reporting that the Dems are planning to push through the healthcare bill by way of budget reconciliation.

#33 |

What? You mean do it the same way Rethugs got tax cuts for the wealthy passed off-budget?

Dastardly!

Then the bill is stripped of any and all social aspects--including the pre exisiting issues, abortion and illegal immigrant issues--all come out of the bill.

So they are basically let with a bill that taxes and mandates everyone for 3-4 years and no benefits.

What are they going to do with the taxes they collect until 2013 or 2014?

Put them in a lock box??

They dont have the votes in the House to pass the Senate bill. And the changes are not going to help.

They need to start over.

Dastardly!

#34 | Posted by Corky

It would cost them them the House Majority.

Really? What did it cost the GOP to finance wars and tax cuts for the rich on our children's backs?

Really? What did it cost the GOP to finance wars and tax cuts for the rich on our children's backs?

#37 | Posted by Corky

The difference was the Democrats voted to authorize the war, history buff.

I think the Dems should ask the republicans to draft a bill and see what they can come up with. I'll bet it doesn't help anyone but the insurance companies.

I think the Dems should ask the republicans to draft a bill and see what they can come up with.
Posted by jackass

I don't think that would be allowed under Obama's hope and change pledge.

#38

That's cheesy AND lame.

The GOP authored and passed the Bills.

The GOP authored and passed the Bills.

#41 | Posted by Corky

And no Democrats voted their approval?

You referring to the brain-dead idea that people have an "opportunity" to put Social Security money into the stock market?

#24 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

If all the money that was paid into Social Security since I started working in 1964 was instead invested in a Dow tracking fund, my monthly annuity would be three times the amount of my projected Social Security at age 66.

But go ahead and keep thinking it's a brain-dead idea.

Here is a thought to help with pre-existing conditions. Suppose Insurance companies take these people but they must comply with mandates from the insurance companies to stay insured. Things like a weight loss program and regularly taking meds. If they don't comply they get booted off. Some things can't be treated and those people wouldn't be subject to these rules but most poor health is due to poor choices. It would be like car insurance where you drive bad you get dropped. If you don't eat right and exercise you get dropped.

-And no Democrats voted their approval?

On two different off-budget tax cuts for the wealthy? Not many if any.

If you don't eat right and exercise you get dropped.

#44 | Posted by jackass

Do you read what you post?

You are a fascist!

You are a fascist!

More like a dipshit.

Don't feed the finger-sniffer.

You are a fascist!

#46 | Posted by MURPHY at 2010-01-22 06:31 PM |

Wrong idiot. Free market capitalism means that as a pvt company the insurance company gets to set their own rules and you can either choose them or not.
Just like Auto insurance. Murphy and Jak Se Coward you can't have it both ways.

More erudite and pointed economic philosophy from Fulton County...

I don't live in Fulton Co nor have I ever. I don't even live in GA for that matter. You talk tough but I seriously doubt you are. Usually people that cuss and holler the most do so because it is their only defense mechanism.

I'm at least as much of a badass as a guy with 10+ handles who sends anonymous emails from "Spiffy.net".

That is doubtful but hey you never know. I certainly don't since you won't meet me for beers. If you feel scared you can bring Goat along too.

Jackass--you don't get dropped for car insurance.

If you drive you have to get insurance--and you pay for it.

If you want to take the bus or walk --you don't get the insurance.

That is NOT what the HC bill is all about though is it.

Murphy you simpleton if you drive poorly you will get dropped. This HC plan was to get as many people covered as possible. You are too greedy or stupid to realize that people deserve to get quality medical care before they need to go to the ER.