Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, January 21, 2010

The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that corporations may spend as freely as they like to support or oppose candidates for president and Congress, easing decades-old limits on business efforts to influence federal campaigns. By a 5-4 vote, the court overturned a 20-year-old ruling that said companies can be prohibited from using money from their general treasuries to produce and run their own campaign ads. The decision, which almost certainly will also allow labor unions to participate more freely in campaigns, threatens similar limits imposed by 24 states.

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Surprise it's a 5-4 vote with the Corporate 5 voting together to anger the founding fathers who are rolling in their graves as I post.

damn your fast danni, i just posted this link.

I wont be able to turn my TV on for 6 months prior to every election.

Gives new meaning to "Corporate Citizen" doesn't it?

Fucking useless Conservatives.

I'll check the story out but lessee now...Betcha the majority consists of Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts, and Kennedy.

Great. More bribe money in politics. Just what we needed. Thanks, "conservatives".

Great. More bribe money in politics. Just what we needed. Thanks, "conservatives".

KENNEDY, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS,
C. J., and SCALIA and ALITO, JJ., joined, in which THOMAS, J., joined as to all but Part IV,

(From scotusblog.com)

Obama's wise latina voted "present."

I'm lubing the 380 up..........

Yep. I guess the GOP is opening their own store now, they'll call it NOs-R-Us.

Awesome.

Obama's wise latina voted "present."

Wrong, of course, but nice try at deflecting from the activist judges overturning 100 years of precedent and law, granting corporations even more rights.

Sad day for "true Americans". Actually a fuckin shame!!!!!

I'm lubing the 380 up..........

#2 | Posted by Litho_Doctor at 2010-01-21 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Easy on the gun oil, just a little dab. How do you afford .380 ammo? It has gone through the roof!

Wow, did y'all hear about the new store the GOP is opening in light of this verdict? It's called 'NOs-R-Us'.

Government of, by and for the corporations.

I don't know which is more of a shocker... this or Edwards adimitting the baby is his.

Well, that should certainly "stimulate" some spending in the private sector!

Too late for Aetna and UHC to support Coakley though, sorry boys.

With corporate personhood being taken to extremes, perhaps it is time for a little campaign finance reform. They didn't stop them from giving, perhaps congress can stop themselves from taking.

*snort*

OK, never happen.....

Waiting for the righties to decry these activist judges.....

Any moment now......

Waiting......

There is no easy answer to this question, but I don't like the effect of the decision. If money is equivalent to speech, then those with more money are more able to speak.

A way around this Constitutional rut would be to make it illegal for politicians to propose or vote on any law that would directly benefit any person or corporation who spent money on them during a campaign. It would no longer be worth the investment for a corporation to spend this kind of money since they'd be getting nothing in return.

Politicians are too ethically weak to make their own dirty conduct illegal. Federal prosecutors are forced to use vague criminal laws against "depriving your employer of honest services" to bust corrupt politicians because there are no laws which specifically prohibit the nonsense our representatives engage in. Define "pay-to-play" politics and make it a felony and you'll see less of it - but the problem is that the people in charge of creating that law are the ones who benefit from it not being there.

Spud knew wot five it was before even clicking on the link.

Both parties are taking the country to hell in a corporate handbasket but the conservative ideologues are the only ones who are "full speed ahead" about it.

Spud to the Furious Five:

Go fuck yerselves, you sell outs.

* Brooklyn accent *

No disrespect.

Be Well.

/As he do
stage left.

Waiting for the righties to decry these activist judges.....
Any moment now......
Waiting......
#12 | Posted by 726

LOL.

But, please, to be calling them "strict constructionists."

Obama's wise latina voted "present."
#7 | Posted by cookfish | Flag: Ignoramus

So looking at Twitter, many ignorant conservatives are blaming Obama and his new justice.

How awesome is that. Fox News hasn't quite told them what to think yet... so awesome. They are confused until about 8pm tonight.

'ignorant conserviatives are blaming Obama'

Are there any other kind?

i don't think this changes much. it just eliminates the middle men.

end the corporate person.

anything less is a waste of time.

I was just thinking this morning that we needed more unrestricted money flowing from corporations into politics so that our leaders listen to them instead of the people.

......... How do you afford .380 ammo? It has gone through the roof!

#13 | Posted by hoser

If you can find it...

I look forward to reading this decision over the weekend. I agree 100% with Joe's post above. I personally think that if a constitutional amendment was proposed, you wouldn't see a problem with state ratification. However, you will NEVER see politicians making such a proposal. Just like you will never see a proposal for term limits.

How long before someone campaign commercial ends with "Brought to you by Wal-Mart"?

I was just thinking this morning that we needed more unrestricted money flowing from corporations into politics so that our leaders listen to them instead of the people.

#26 | Posted by rcade

This is the unconstitutional law sponsored by McCain and signed into law by Bush, right?

The one that restricted the 501c3's and the Unions from donating large amounts, also?

INMO this is a good start. Now go after the Patriot Act.

How long before someone campaign commercial ends with "Brought to you by Wal-Mart"?

Haven't read it yet, either, but my guess is it'll be a very long time. What you're more likely to hear is "Brought to you by People United Against Bad People" and, after some digging through records (possibly not available until after the election) you'll discover that half the money for that operation came from Wal-Mart, a quarter from Big Tobacco, and the remainder from a coalition of overseas Americans listing its headquarteres as a a brothel on the outskirts of Winnemucca, Nevada.

"They are confused until about 8pm tonight."

No, they can fall back to their default opinion which is always there for those few times when they have to decide something for themselves. It is "if a liberal or a Democrat is either for or against something then the loyal Fox viewer takes the opposite position. It doesn't matter the issue it is true on all issues at least until you are told by a certifice Fox pundit or Rush Limbaugh himself that it is ok to actually agree with the liberal and/or Democrat.
It's all in the handbook.

All of our institions are imploding this country---this has got to be one of the most ludicrous decisions in the recent past.

It's time for international travel to locate a port in this coming storm.

How long before someone campaign commercial ends with "Brought to you by Wal-Mart"?

#28 | Posted by taxman

what we need is for the senators, congressmen, presidents to wear badges of their sponsors, er constituents, like they do in Nascar.

Wonder if they'll ever allow them a vote as well.

"All of our institions are imploding this country---this has got to be one of the most ludicrous decisions in the recent past."

With the appointments of Roberts and Alito this decision was as predictable as the sunrise.

This week is a corporate/republican wet dream.

This is truly sad. The idea that a corporation is a person is absurd in the sense of equal protection. Real people are not immortal. Real people can be jailed or executed for their crimes. Real people (with the exception of 5 or 6) don't have more money than God. Real people cannot buy and sell each other. Real Americans presumably have some loyalty to America (corporations obviously have none). The owners of corporations that have the power to shape the American electoral process with their money are, in many cases, not even Americans. In other words, people who are not allowed to vote in American elections are able to use their money to influence the outcome of American elections.

This is "strict constructionism"? Not "judicial activism" not "legislating from the bench"?

True conservatives should abhor this decision!

With the appointments of Roberts and Alito this decision was as predictable as the sunrise.

#36 | Posted by danni

Oh come on! It was sponsored by McCain and signed into law by Bush. It was crap. If it had been struck down under Bush you'd be dancing in the streets.

Y'all remember how Roberts got on the court don't you??? Democrats threatened a filibuster and the REpublicans threatened nuclear option. The Dems should have called their bluff, Roberts ended up on the court anyway but, as it is, we left the filibuster intact. Big mistake, one of many made by Democrats who do not have the ability to see five minutes into the future. President Obama and Sen. Reid saying no action on healthcare until Brown is seated, just another example of naive expectations of equal treatment when roles are reversed. It won't be, it never is, Democrats never learn.

Since corporations have personhood, in the completely insane view of the Supreme Court, they should be allowed to run for office. In 2012, we could choose between Wal-Mart as the Republican nominee for president and Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

"This week is a corporate/republican wet dream"

.....because liberals don't own businesses?
.....don't contribute to corporations?

Don't agree with the decision, but pretty sure Soros just blew his all over the chairman's photo.

Exit USA. Enter America, Inc. And state politics will be completely owned by the corporations even worse than before. We do need a constitutional convention, or a revolution.

"It was crap. If it had been struck down under Bush you'd be dancing in the streets."

You are full of crap. Any limits placed on corporate money going into politics would be applauded by liberals regardless of who signed the bill. BTW, the bill was McCain/FEINGOLD....FEingold is a good Democrat.

As long as foreign elements are prohibited from donating, ANY American individual, union or corporation should be allowed to speak freely without government censorship hiding behind campaign laws.
Incidentally, one of Gov. Christie's first acts was to sign a NJ executive order including unions in "pay-to-play" campaign contribution restrictions. See? Democrats censor corporations and pub censor unions. The court made the right call here.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag and the Corporation for which is stands....

Wonder if they'll ever allow them a vote as well.

#35 | Posted by Lohocla

They wont need to.

For the willfully ignorant. Here is the issue.

Corporation A is regulated by the federal govt.

Congressmen B, Senators C & D pass laws that impact the regulation of Corporation A.

Corporation will fund the elections of Congressmen B and Senators C & D against opposition E, F & G.

Congressman B and Senators C & D will be obligated to Corporation A.

Congressman B and Senators C & D will pass regulations favorable to Corporation A, will funnel public money to Corporation A, etc.

Average Joe will have no say in what Congressman B and Senators C & D do unless Average Joe is Joe the Plumber who is so stupid to believe the stuff Corporation A tells them (so joe how much have your taxes gone up under Obama?).

Old Average Joe the plumber will squawk FREE MARKET ECONOMY all the way to the unemployment line.

Do you guys even READ the constitution. I know that Rom thinks (and said so) that we should do away with it - but it says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.."

So..the McCain / Feingold law prevented the right of a corporation or individual to exersize thier constitutional right to free speech.

The result was the take over of the democratic party by Soro's. It did not stop the buying of votes - witness how the party cowtowed to Soro's and other. Once the funding dried up from elsewhere..Murtha and others had to use the earmarks as a fund raising tool. All Feingold did was just prevented both Labor and Business from exersizing their god given (as it says so in the constitution) right to free expression.

Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

#41 | Posted by rcade

That doesn't seem quite fair...

....FEingold is a good Democrat.

#44 | Posted by danni

LoL! So is McCain...

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Corporation for which it stands, one nation under a Christian God only, completely divided but with liberty and justice for rich heterosexuals.

there..much better.

ANY American individual, union or corporation should be allowed to speak freely without government censorship hiding behind campaign laws

how does a union or corporation move its lips when it dont have any?

If the Tea Party movement would react to this as you would think they would if they really mean the things they say it would be the most important issue in politics today and they would find that Democrats and liberals agree with them. If they really wanted to shake up Washington this is the issue upon which to base that shake up.

So..the McCain / Feingold law prevented the right of a corporation or individual to exersize thier constitutional right to free speech.

since when can a corporation speak?

"so joe how much have your taxes gone up under Obama?"

About 10% 21 days ago?

The court inflicted King George upon the nation (and world) in 2000. The court will surely serve its corporate masters on this. An Amy Goodman segment just had to do with the corporations offing Martin Luther King Jr in 1968 when he threatened their profits. Getting this from their judicial stooges is a mere drop in the bucket. herm

That doesn't seem quite fair...

What corporation would you suggest as the Democratic nominee? For me, it was a toss up between Ben n' Jerry's and Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps.

Clinton got elected twice before this was passed. It wont stop good candidates from getting elected.

so joe how much have your taxes gone up under Obama?"

About 10% 21 days ago?

#55 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

Link?

"Do you guys even READ the constitution"

I've read the Constitutiona nd corporations aren't mentioned but as in other cases the intent of the authors of the Constitution should be significant:

"When American colonists declared independence from England in 1776, they also freed themselves from control by English corporations that extracted their wealth and dominated trade. After fighting a revolution to end this exploitation, our country's founders retained a healthy fear of corporate power and wisely limited corporations exclusively to a business role. Corporations were forbidden from attempting to influence elections, public policy, and other realms of civic society.

Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end.

The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these:

* Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.

* Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.

* Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.

* Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.

* Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.

* Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making."

reclaimdemocracy.org

and Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps.

#57 | Posted by rcade

Ok, that's fucking wierd...

Why does a corporation need free speech when all the individual owners and managers of said corporation already have free speech? If you want to say the same thing about unions, I'm ok with that, as long as corporations don't have the right. And regardless of what the Supreme Court may have decided (legislated) in the past, money is not speech!

Here is a true fact that many people don't seem to know; Only real people can pay taxes. Businesses are not really paying taxes, they never did, and it is not even possible for these "things" to do so.

A business can be a tax collector, (Fascism) when the government forces it to collect taxes hidden in the price of their goods and services from its customers.

Tobacco companies get taxed a lot, gas companies, Food, shipping, stores, all get taxed. Who pays these taxes? corporations? the rich? Most of the taxation in this country is paid by most of the consumers, regardless of their wealth.

Who pays the taxation imposed upon your local brewery? the rich? Most taxes are paid by the bulk of the people not the rich. There are not enough rich people to pay all the taxes. At the base of this lie is the "legal" doctrine known as, "corporate personhood."

So..the McCain / Feingold law prevented the right of a corporation or individual to exersize thier constitutional right to free speech.

a corporation is NOT an individual contrary to what you might have been told.

A recent article on the Straight Dope Web site says that in a famous 1886 case the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that corporations are "persons" having the same rights as human beings based on the 14th Amendment, which was intended to protect the rights of former slaves. Not to nitpick, but the Supreme Court made no such decision. If you look at the case in question, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, you see that the court itself never rules on personhood. A court reporter by the name of J.C. Bancroft Davis (a former railroad president) snuck that "ruling" into the books.

What most people don't know is that after the above-mentioned 1886 decision, artificial persons were held to have exactly the same legal rights as we natural folk. (Not to mention the clear advantages corporations enjoy: they can be in several places at once, for instance, and at least in theory they're immortal.) Up until the New Deal, many laws regulating corporations were struck down under the "equal protection" clause of the 14th Amendment--in fact, that clause was invoked far more often on behalf of corporations than former slaves. Although the doctrine of personhood has been weakened since, even now lawyers argue that an attempt to sue a corporation for lying is an unconstitutional infringement on its First Amendment right to free speech. (This year, for example, we saw Nike v. Kasky.)

You're thinking: By what tortured reasoning did the Supreme Court decide that corporations were protected by the 14th Amendment, which everyone knows was enacted to protect the rights of real people? Answer: Apparently it didn't decide. As revealed by our friend bex--and detailed by Thom Hartmann in Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights (2002)--the whole thing began as a courtroom comment by a judge, which was elevated to the status of legal precedent by an overreaching court reporter.

Here's what happened. Santa Clara County in California was trying to levy a property tax against the Southern Pacific Railroad. The railroad gave numerous reasons why it shouldn't have to pay, one of which rested on the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause: the railroad was being held to a different standard than human taxpayers.

When the case reached the Supreme Court, Chief Justice Morrison Waite supposedly prefaced the proceedings by saying, "The Court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution which forbids a state to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does." In its published opinion, however, the court ducked the personhood issue, deciding the case on other grounds.

Then the court reporter, J.C. Bancroft Davis, stepped in. Although the title makes him sound like a mere clerk, the court reporter is an important official who digests dense rulings and summarizes key findings in published "headnotes." (Davis had already had a long career in public service, and at one point was president of the board of directors for the Newburgh & New York Railroad Company.) In a letter, Davis asked Waite whether he could include the latter's courtroom comment--which would ordinarily never see print--in the headnotes. Waite gave an ambivalent response that Davis took as a yes. Eureka, instant landmark ruling.

www.straightdope.com

"Do you guys even READ the constitution. I know that Rom thinks (and said so) that we should do away with it - "

Wasn't that Bush? "It's only a piece of paper." Or am I misremembering?

"but it says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.."
So..the McCain / Feingold law prevented the right of a corporation or individual to exersize thier constitutional right to free speech."

What are you talking about? Corporations and unions have free speech? Oh, you buy the corporate personhood bullshit, do ya? You think the founding fathers were interested in that? They weren't interested in the rights of individuals? Hm. So are you good with unions now having more and more power? Really?

And by the by, McCain-Feingold is not that old. My understanding is that this decision overturns much older shit. I think it's an awful decision. I think corporations and unions should get the fuck outta politics--or the money part anyway. They have a voice through their members and their endorsements.

Let's have campaign financing caps and term limits. (Yeah, like either will ever happen.)

Let's have campaign financing caps and term limits. (Yeah, like either will ever happen.)

Posted by pragmatist

That would fix a lot of this and I would think it would be constitutional.

I know that Rom thinks (and said so) that we should do away with it - "

reporter: "what do you think about the first amendment?"

rhom: "I think its highly overrated"

and THAT ladies and gentlemen is all you need to know about this ballet dancing crook from chicago.

#60 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-21 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yet Thomas Jefferson amassed a navy/marine to protect US corporations from the Barbary Pirates(Islamic pirates). Did he help with the constitution?

Carry on sheeple.

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2010-01-21 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Exp. of tax cuts on middle incomes.

Here is a prize of a Twitterer... a conservative idiot at that.

twitter.com

A few of his excerpts...

@seanhannity @cspan @RNC SO NOW OBAMA HAS TOTALLY CORRUPTED OUR SUPREME COURT!HE HAS2BE STOPPED,&THE CONSTITUTION REINSTATED!

@limbaugh @glennbeck @gretawire SO NOW OBAMA HAS TOTALLY CORRUPTED OUR SUPREME COURT!HE HAS2BE STOPPED,&THE CONSTITUTION REINSTATED!

@weeklystandard @Judgenap @Senate_Gops SO NOW OBAMA HAS TOTALLY CORRUPTED OUR SUPREME COURT!HE HAS2BE STOPPED,&THE CONSTITUTION REINSTATED!

@happeningnow @JohnMcCain @WSJ SO NOW OBAMA HAS TOTALLY CORRUPTED OUR SUPREME COURT!! HE HAS TO BE STOPPED,AND THE CONSTITUTION REINSTATED!

"What are you talking about? Corporations and unions have free speech? Oh, you buy the corporate personhood bullshit, "

US code
TITLE 1--GENERAL PROVISIONS
Chapter 1

"the words ``person'' and ``whoever'' include corporations,
companies, associations, firms, partnerships, societies, and joint
stock companies, as well as individuals;"

Bravo, Excellent ruling.

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2010-01-21 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Exp. of tax cuts on middle incomes.

#69 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

avg plumber makes $38K per year, you saying his taxes went up?

"Yet Thomas Jefferson amassed a navy/marine to protect US corporations from the Barbary Pirates(Islamic pirates)."

To protect US corporatons???
Link please.
More like he wanted to protect American ships which may or may not have been owned by corporations.
I don't think any of us have a problem with private property and the protection of it, corporations are a collective method of holding property. We all respect the rights of the owners of their property but that does not mean that the property itself should have freedom of speech. Every owner of every share has that right but their property did not then and should not now. To make the claim that the founding fathers intended for corporations to have rights is ludcrous and easily proven to be absolute bull shit and furthermore the justices who voted for this decision know that just as well as we do. They are simply corporatist POS who don't care what the real intent of the Constitution is. Scalia claiming to be an "originalist" is a fucking liar.

The Santa Clara Blues:

Corporate Personhood versus Democracy

Corporate Personhood is a legal fiction. The choice of the word "person" arises from the way the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was worded and from earlier legal usage of the word person. A corporation is an artificial entity, created by the granting of a charter by a government that grants such charters. Corporation in this essay will be confined to businesses run for profit that have been granted corporate charters by the States of the United States. The Federal Government of the United States usually does not grant corporate charters to businesses (exceptions include the Post Office and Amtrak).

Corporations are artificial entities owned by stockholders, who may be humans or other corporations. They are required by law to have officers and a board of directors (in small corporations these may all be the same people). In effect the corporation is a collective of individuals with a special legal status and privileges not given to ordinary unincorporated businesses or groups of individuals.

Obviously a corporation is itself no more a person (though it is owned and staffed by persons) than a locomotive or a mob. So why, in the USA, is a corporation considered to be a person under law?

In the United States of America all natural persons (actual human beings) are recognized as having inalienable rights. These rights are recognized, among other places, in the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment.

Corporate personhood is the idea (legal fiction, currently with force of law) that corporations have inalienable rights (sometimes called constitutional rights) just like real, natural, human persons.

much more

www.iiipublishing.com

"avg plumber makes $38K per year, you saying his taxes went up?"

If his name is Joe then yes, because though he doesn't earn over $250,000 now he might someday and so President Obama is trying to prevent him from owning his own business and turning America into the USSR.

again point made that some people are so stupid as to believe and advocate for the corporations out there screwing them

If his name is Joe then yes, because though he doesn't earn over $250,000 now he might someday and so President Obama is trying to prevent him from owning his own business and turning America into the USSR.

#76 | Posted by danni

Not sure where your going with this....

You can't prohibit freedom of speech--on anyone or any company. (Sans yelling "Fire" in a theater type scenarios).

Individuals, Organizations and companies and churches and corporations can all talk freely under the constitution.

This is the same argument that some folks propose for guns.

Some argue that militias are the ones to bear arms and not necessarily individuals.

Well who the heck makes up militias??

Individuals make up militias.

Same thing here.

Individuals make up corporations and associations and organizations and groups under a LLC or whatever.

Fascism, pronounced /ˈfʃɪzəm/, is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system,[5] and which is usually considered to be on the far right of the traditional left-right political spectrum.

en.wikipedia.org

...and the 'far right' thinks Obama and the democrats are fascist?

"Not sure where your going with this...."

Remember Joe the Plumber??

It was a joke.

"Calling silence a victory, from 1877 to 1886 corporate lawyers assumed that corporations were persons, and their opponents argued that they were not.

In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company [118 U.S. 394 (1886)], at the lower court levels the question of whether corporations were persons had been argued, and these arguments were submitted in writing to the Court. However, before oral argument took place, Chief Justice Waite announced: "The court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does."

It is not half as strange that the Supreme Court judges would render such an opinion, given their allegiance to the propertied class, as the way that they rendered it. These guys loved to write long-winded, complex opinions; look at any Supreme Court opinion of the time (or any time) and you'll see that.

This question had never been covered in a Supreme Court decision; it had been avoided. Here was the perfect chance for any of nine Supreme Court judges to make his place in history. All declined. No one wanted to explain how an amendment about ex-slaves had converted artificial entities into the legal equivalent of natural persons.

This opinion without explanation, given before argument had even been heard, became the law of the United States of America. No state or federal legislature passed it or even discussed; no Amendment to the Constitution was deemed necessary; the citizens were simply informed that they had a mistaken view about corporations, if they were informed at all.

Future Supreme Courts refused to even consider the question, preferring to build on it, though occasionally future justices would try to raise the question again."

from the above link

They should drop the Individual limits on political ads as well.

"...and the 'far right' thinks Obama and the democrats are fascist?"

Ignorance'll do that.

"Individuals make up corporations and associations and organizations and groups under a LLC or whatever.

And no one disputes their right to freedom of speech etc. But that doesn't mean that they should be able to use their collective wealth, directed by the CEO (possibly against the wishes of some stockholders)(not necessarily even an American corporation or CEO or stockholders) to effect elections or legislation in our Congress.
You realize, as the minority argued BTW, that this opens the door to foreign nationals to have the right to participate in American elections. What is to stop the Chinese from buying the next presidential election with massive amounts of money to buy ads????

At the base of this lie is the "legal" doctrine known as, "corporate personhood." It is a Fascist trick to give executives (the real humans involved, who deserve to be punished) legal immunity when their Corporation (a legal term, that can't be punished in any way) violates the law, and to fool people into thinking that a corporate tax, fee, license cost, yes, and even fines, won't be paid by any people, but by this "thing" instead. Corporate personhood is a lie. It not only violates the 1st Amendment, it is, in fact a clear violation of the 1st Commandment as well. We are not "allowing" corporations to exist, we are Pretending they do (to our detriment). The corporation has been granted all the rights of a person, but it is immortal, invisible, and influences the making of laws that we will have to obey. We and our children's children, for generation after generation, will be punished for disobeying these laws but the corporation continues forever un-punishable. Clearly Idolatry, and ensconced into the law of our "Christian" nation. Are you really a Christian, (or a Jew or Muslim for that matter) or are you committing IDOLATRY?

...and the 'far right' thinks Obama and the democrats are fascist?

#80 | Posted by RingMaster

Actually, I think the far right would be Anarchist. Fascist are just communist that like money as much as they like power.

"Because speech is an essential mechanism of democracy -- it is the means to hold officials accountable to the people -- political speech must prevail against laws that would suppress it by design or inadvertence," wrote Justice Anthony Kennedy for the majority."

The great divide

In his dissent, Justice John Paul Stevens accused the majority of judicial activism and attacked the use of corporate personhood in the case: "The conceit that corporations must be treated identically to natural persons in the political sphere is not only inaccurate but also inadequate to justify the Court's disposition of this case."

Corporations/Not for profit groups/Unions should not have a collective voice in any election as they already litter Washington with their lobbiest.

I would like to read more but from what I've seen, this is a horrible decision by the conservative judges.

"They should drop the Individual limits on political ads as well.

#83 | Posted by MURPHY "

As usual, these new found populist tea baggers that became enemies of big business the day Obama was sworn in are back to defending corporate power and the principle of "one corporation, many votes".

"Not sure where your going with this...."

Remember Joe the Plumber??

It was a joke.

#81 | Posted by danni

You made a joke...that's what through me off.lol

Plumbers in my area charge $75+ markup on materials. A small business with about 4 employees. Easy 300K of taxable income in a good year. I never found it quite as funny as you guys did.

#85 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-21 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:most relevant question
What is to stop the Chinese from buying the next presidential election with massive amounts of money to buy ads????

In this case nothing. How "conservatives" can support such a thing (surrender of sovereignty) reveals that they are clearly not patriots in any real sense of the word. Why do "conservatives" hate America?

Justice John Paul Stevens in a stinging dissent written for the minority, argues that the right wing of the court has engaged in a brazen act of activism--and has done so to award corporations more legal rights than they have previously been afforded.

* Even more misguided is the notion that the Court must rewrite the law relating to campaign expenditures by for-profit corporations and unions to decide this case.

* The conceit that corporations must be treated identically to natural persons in the political sphere is not only inaccurate but also inadequate to justify the Court's disposition of this case.

So why can't we all just become "Corporations"? Then we would have no limits either! And we could be immortal!

"As usual, these new found populist tea baggers that became enemies of big business the day Obama was sworn in are back to defending corporate power and the principle of "one corporation, many votes"."

That is my expectation but I do not want to pre-judge and I don't think Murphy speaks for the Tea Party movement. That movement should be given the opportunity to come out against this ruling, when/if they don't (they won't) then they should be loudly proclaimed to be the hypocrits and morons we have always thought them to be. I'm just saying let them prove it first.

"So why can't we all just become "Corporations"? Then we would have no limits either! And we could be immortal!"

Because they would find a loophole so that it doesn't apply to you!

So why can't we all just become "Corporations"? Then we would have no limits either! And we could be immortal!

#94 | Posted by donnerboy

You can.

If corporations are persons, why don't they have the right to vote? If they don't have the right to vote, why do they have the right to influence elections?

* Although they make enormous contributions to our society, corporations are not actually members of it. They cannot vote or run for office. Because they may be managed and controlled by nonresidents, their interests may conflict in fundamental respects with the interests of eligible voters.

Which nonresidents/counties will now have the right to interfere in US elections?

They opened the wrong door!

from near the top...

"Gives new meaning to "Corporate Citizen" doesn't it?

Fucking useless Conservatives."

#3 | Posted by YAV at 2010-01-21 10:31 AM

Not that I am one to defend them, because I'm not...
But one Conservative, perhaps the last Conservative with actual Foresight, predicted that this would happen...that we would become a Corporataucracy...

His name was Dwight Eisenhower...

He predicted that the Defense Contractors and the Multinationals would one day take over this country...(wonder why we don't see any Republicans quoting Dwight anymore...)

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. He was also the LAST REPUBLICAN to have a BUDGET SURPLUS instead of a
DEFICIT...

read your HISTORY people...

"Which nonresidents/counties will now have the right to interfere in US elections?"

Why the (Communist)Chinese Government, of course! (our owners, thanks to the Repubs and Corporate Dems).

Conservatives have sold the county to the Communists! The irony is unbearable!

* The financial resources, legal structure,and instrumental orientation of corporations raise legitimate concerns about their role in the electoral process. Our lawmakers have a compelling constitutional basis, if not also a democratic duty, to take measures designed to guard against the potentially deleterious effects of corporate spending in local and national races.

* The Court's ruling threatens to undermine the integrity of elected institutions across the Nation. The path it has taken to reach its outcome will, I fear, do damage to this institution.

Paul is pissed

"It is a Fascist trick to give executives (the real humans involved, who deserve to be punished) legal immunity when their Corporation (a legal term, that can't be punished in any way) "

Except the government hold the reins of power no vice versa, right? wrong? depends on who uses the term?

This ruling, just like the Kelo v. City of New London ruling, places Corporations and Unions (effectively ineffective labor corporations) above individuals. The ruling which equates free speech with money is a Kafkaesque interpretation of the same Catch-22 logic which states a corporation canot pay taxes but has the rights of an individual.
The only solution is public funding of elections, as long as elections are exercises in corporate marketing and product branding disguised as political speech the dollar will rule.
Progress is always defined by the goals, what untimely is the goal of the US, to live by the timeless ideals of the Constitution or become a stable marketplace for global liquidity of capital?
Allowing corporations, unions, PACs or lobbyists access in exchange for contributions is corruption regardless of whether one believes in the issue or not.

assets.sunlightfoundation.com
FYI

If only the outrage would not subside but instead unify most Americans and finally take the power back for the people. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever this issue should unite us not divide us.

Where's Russ Fucking Feingold?

www.supremecourtus.gov

Did anyone read the opinion?

Here. Let me tell you one aspect.

If you are a single-shareholder corporation, did you know the law applied to your corporation?

I love this part:

"Reversed in part, affirmed in part, and remanded."

Do you know what that means?

"Kennedy J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Roberts, C.J. and Scalia and Alito, JJ. joined, in which Thomas J., joined as to all but Part IV, and in which Stevens, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Sotomayor, JJ., joined as to Part IV. Roberts, C.J. filed a concurring opinion, in which Alito, J. joined, and in which Thomas, J. joined in part. Stevens, J. filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part, in which Ginsberg, Breyer, and Sotomayor, JJ. joined. Thomas, J. filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part."

In the end, you'll find the Justices are not voting like Republicans/Democrats - all one side and all the other.

Read the decision and look how they all took their sides and agreed in parts, disagreed in parts.

The Court isn't so one-way or that.

"Where's Russ Fucking Feingold?"

Where's John McCain?

I don't know what either of them could do about this anyway.

If only the outrage would not subside but instead unify most Americans and finally take the power back for the people. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever this issue should unite us not divide us.

#107 | Posted by danni

It won't happen, because we don't agree on the function of the federal government. I think the function is to protect us from force an fraud. Beyond that I'd like them to stay out of my life. The rest we can handle locally or the state level.

"The Court isn't so one-way or that."

The court either does or does not recognize corporate personhood, if it recognizes it then it goes against the founding fathers and the majority of the citizens of this country.

My simple idea for campaign finance reform. All individual Americans are allowed to donate--let's say $250/year to any particular candidate(s)tax free. You can give more, but 50% of what you give will be assessed a "corrupt politician fee." There would be no limits on how much you gave however all above $250 is taxable at a 50% rate. That way, if I want to give 5000 dollars to elect Nancy Pelosi (which I definitely do not want to do), I write a check for $5000, and she gets $2750 and the US Treasury gets $2375(($5000-250)*.5) that can only go into a fund to reduce the deficit. We could even make it more "progressive" and say any donation above %5000 would be taxed at 75% and any donation above 10,000 would be taxed at 99%.

wrt my last post--corporations and unions have the same restrictions. They are treated as a person, with the same limits....

Let's see...Ben & Jerry's against Exxon... I think we all know how that would turn out.

"If only the outrage would not subside but instead unify most Americans and finally take the power back for the people. Conservative, liberal, moderate, whatever this issue should unite us not divide us"

Going all transcendental on us again Danni. Would be nice, but it's not in the best interests of the existing power structure.

Besides, if we all agreed on something the DR would be boring.

Let's see...Ben & Jerry's against Exxon... I think we all know how that would turn out.

#115 | Posted by Whatsleft

Ben & Jerry's vs. Pfizer?

I think it might be worth the pain of watching Fox News just to hear the convoluted spin they will put on this, that is unless they just completely ignore it which is more likely.

#74 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-21 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag

More like he wanted to protect American ships which may or may not have been owned by corporations.

It was to provide protection for US merchant ships and their crews. He was protecting US merchants(corporations).

en.wikipedia.org

Keep trying Danni. US Corporations are nothing more than collections of US citizens. Except for the outsourced/offshored BS.

Microsoft vs. Citizen's United?
GE Cap vs. Aetna?
UAW vs. GMAC?
SEIU vs. AHIP?

Plumbers in my area charge $75+ markup on materials. A small business with about 4 employees. Easy 300K of taxable income in a good year. I never found it quite as funny as you guys did.

#91 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

each individual employee makes over $300k? at $75/hour? That would be 4000 billable hours per year.

ok $300K for the plumbing co owner? ok well that is a GROSS INCOME. take out the cost of salary and your PROFIT is far less than that

Avg plumbing salary nationwide is $38K

Apollo vs. Heritage?
MediaMatters vs. Fox?

OK... OK... time for corporate celebrity death match!

#113 | Posted by fixo at 2010-01-21 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

The US government could also tax every word in each story 'reported' on liberal blogs that contains the word "Bush" or "Chaney". At $10 per word, we could raise billions of dollars.

Since corporations have personhood, in the completely insane view of the Supreme Court, they should be allowed to run for office. In 2012, we could choose between Wal-Mart as the Republican nominee for president and Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

#41 | Posted by rcade

More importantly, if corporations have personhood, they should be able to go to jail for crimes. And since, as the court said, they act through their agents, the agents should be the ones in jail.

Let's see...Ben & Jerry's against Exxon... I think we all know how that would turn out.

#115 | Posted by Whatsleft

yeah but the Breyer's sponsered Swift Scooper Veterans for Truth will prove that Ben did not earn his birkestocks honorably.

"By taking the right to speak from some and giving it to others, the Government deprives the disadvantaged class or person the right to use speech to strive to establish worth, standing, and respect for the speakers voice."

Those poor disadvantaged person/corps. are protected.

Fascist are just communist that like money as much as they like power.

It is this kind of thinking that has led to the labeling of conservatives as uneducated ideologists. This latest Supreme court decision is a perfect example of this felonious thinking.

Fascism is the ideological opposite of communism. Why can't the radical right ever get this concept right? Communism stems from the word 'communal'. It is a system in which the government (or representation of the people) holds all property, including corporations, in common and controls the purse strings.

Fascism is when the corporations, or contractual agreements between share holders, become the power brokers who are represented by political leaders.

I don't dispute that Obama and the democratic party are those types of leader, but all American politicians have become pawns for corporations in some form just to get elected. Obama is no exception, but show me where he has advocated collectivism or communism. If anything he is trying to wrestle some of that corporate power away from the fascist insurance companies who control the 'death panels' that have been around for decades. That is a philosophy called socialism, not fascism or Marxism or communism.

You can't understand the problem or solve it if you have a mental block on the actual definitions of the political terms used to define politics. This is where the conservatives have dug themselves a very deep grave. They have redefined basic terminology to twist the logic of rational discussion.

They insist socialism and communism are dirty words, not to be used, instead of using the words in their proper context. This limits their arguments to a subset of biased terminology. It is very convenient for the mentally challenged, but it certainly limits intellectual discourse.

Don't take it personally, we all have our misconceptions, but fortunately we can all learn if we stop and think long enough.

"He was protecting US merchants(corporations)."

Thomas Jefferson wrote in a 1816 letter to George Logan:[10]

I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

en.wikipedia.org

BTW MIDTOWNLIAR where is the link about the merchant ships being owned by corporations???

The US government could also tax every word in each story 'reported' on liberal blogs that contains the word "Bush" or "Chaney". At $10 per word, we could raise billions of dollars.

#123 | Posted by midtowncowboy

And we could tax every misspelled word on conservative blogs and make trillions! Or we could tax every citation or fact on conservative blogs and make....pennies.

What is amazing to me is some people actually believe this will change anything. Washington is already completely infested and controlled by special intrests. What makes someone think this ruling will make any difference?

each individual employee makes over $300k? at $75/hour? That would be 4000 billable hours per year.

ok $300K for the plumbing co owner? ok well that is a GROSS INCOME. take out the cost of salary and your PROFIT is far less than that

Avg plumbing salary nationwide is $38K

#121 | Posted by truthhurts

Did I say that? No. The plumbing contractor has four employees. Charging $75 per hour. A mechanic may make $20-25, a helper $15. Include a materials markup and now service plans on some higher tech equipment and you start to make real money. There IS a reason why there are so many independent contractors out there. If you have never run a small business you'd be surprised how much money we handle. Most small businesses and S corps file on their personal tax return.

"More importantly, if corporations have personhood, they should be able to go to jail for crimes"

FYI... agents are subject to jail time under ARRA for PHI violations....

And we could tax every misspelled word on conservative blogs and make trillions!

#130 | Posted by Sycophant at 2010-01-21 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well if you had hafl of a brian, you wood envent a speller checkor that cuold be embed in browsurs and make a gazillion dollers.

MTC -

Dammed tax wizz herd do weed.

Foxfire dust tax, butt sum tymes shits rung.

LOL

ha.

You realize, as the minority argued BTW, that this opens the door to foreign nationals to have the right to participate in American elections. What is to stop the Chinese from buying the next presidential election with massive amounts of money to buy ads????

#85 | Posted by danni

Not true--foreign money is specifically against the law. That was the brouhaha with Obama and who was sending him money in the 200 increments--they found the same "persons" contributing. It was suspected that this was foreign money.

And you cringe at private sector money when unions do their collective political ads since day one..

Political ads are free speech. And the congress cannot prohibit freedom of speech.

The campaign finance bill has many unconstitutional issues and should not have passed in the first place.

This is a correction of one of the more blatant items.

And Chuckie wants to have Hearings on this --like they have time!

"It was suspected that this was foreign money."

So now if foreigners comprise the majority of stockholders in and American corporations they can contribute from the corporation to the candidate of their choice or more likely run ads supporting or attacking whatever candidate they choose. The foreigners gain access through the corporate veil.

In other words Murphy, it ceases to be foreign money when it flows through an American corporation. You gave the perfect example to illustrate my point. If those contributors had owned an American corporation that corporation could have contributed whatever amount the corporation decided even though the people deciding were not Americans.

Did I say that? No. The plumbing contractor has four employees. Charging $75 per hour. A mechanic may make $20-25, a helper $15. Include a materials markup and now service plans on some higher tech equipment and you start to make real money. There IS a reason why there are so many independent contractors out there. If you have never run a small business you'd be surprised how much money we handle. Most small businesses and S corps file on their personal tax return.

#132 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at

Again you missed my point and perhaps I have not made it clear.

it is easy for a small business to make $300K GROSS, however that is not what is taxed, take out expenses like salary etc, the number goes WAY down quickly

this decision was fundamentally correct. pass a constitutional amendment if you'll are so offended. just make sure it doesn't abrogate free speech too far. lefties - you crack me up. talk about freedom of speech constantly but can't stomach it when it doesn't correspond with your agenda.

#140 | Posted by truthhurts

You get paid by the hour, don't you.

I'm talking net taxable income.

Since corporations have personhood, in the completely insane view of the Supreme Court, they should be allowed to run for office. In 2012, we could choose between Wal-Mart as the Republican nominee for president and Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

--------

as i said. eliminate the middle man.

#141 | Posted by somoco at 2010-01-21 02:35 PM

It's only correct if you accept the assertion that corporations are persons. The "natural persons" who own and/or manage the corporation have all their freedom of speech intact. The core problem here is the notion that "corporate persons" are the same as "natural persons". Are corporations "born" in the US automatically citizens (as are "natural" persons)? If not, why do they have the right to influence our elections? Are they "endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights"? Did the "Creator" create corporations? I must have missed that verse. And why are they allowed to buy and sell each other? "Natural" persons are explicitly prohibited from that by the same Constitution that supposedly makes corporations "persons".

You have to be an apologist to assert this crap.

A corporation is a 'vehicle of doing business'... intended as an entity for protection of assets and tax consequences.. I do not think that the Founding Fathers ever intended for a corporation to have an equal right as a citizen...ie., vote, etc. To interpret this as such is another sham of corporate control.. noone loses identity nor freedom of speech by being a shareholder in a corporation.. a corporation should not, in turn, be given 'additional' rights as a citizen... this ruling logic is borderline politics at best, something of which the FF never intended for the Supreme Court to be a real element of in any way...
A 'paper entity' is just that...nothing more.. I think that if one goes deeper into the meaning of this ruling, there could be many tentacles which may create many more court cases...
another sad day for the USA..

Impeach John Roberts and the rest of the Corporate 5!

Good point! Supreme Court Justices can be impeached. The Birchers tried to do it to Earl Warren.

Alright everyone come down for a second, now I didn't read all of the posts so there may be some duplicity.

This is not a money issue, it is a freedom of speech and expression issue, if you want to take the money out of politics, place a 200, 300 or however much you want per person per candidate limit per year. For private citizens of that electorits (sp?) district only. That would absolutely level the field, and take all of the taxpayer subsidies out of it while you are at it.

Let groups have there say, let them spend as much as they want on ads or any other ad hominem attacks they see fit. Both sides use it (both the NRA and labor unions supported this ruling) and let the voters decide.

Get smart vote Libertarian

"place a 200, 300 or however much you want per person per candidate limit per year."

I'd love to see it proposed but it would never be adopted by Congress. It's a nice dream though.

"Get smart vote Libertarian"

Why? They want unlimited corporate donations. They are advocates for corporate-controlled government.

Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

#41 | Posted by rcade at 2010-01-21 12:13 PM

Ben and Jerry already tried the liberal approach to business.

How'd that work out, btw?

This decision sucks.

And regardless of what the Supreme Court may have decided (legislated) in the past, money is not speech!

#62 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2010-01-21 12:24 PM |

Amen.

Most of the taxation in this country is paid by most of the consumers, regardless of their wealth.

#63 | Posted by Salverda at 2010-01-21 12:25 PM | Reply |

Correct.

Decision doesn't bother me at all. If a company has a point of view they want to make public, they should be free to do so. John McCain had many transgressions, but the McCain-Feingold abomination was right at the top of the list.

If a company has a point of view they want to make public, they should be free to do so.

But, since a few people speak for a company and the views of the company will not reflect the employees or stock holders, giving companies a voice is actually giving a second voice to the CEO and board of directors. That is not fair to the rank and file person who only gets one voice.

Big deal. Only a few people speak for the New York Times, but that doesn't stop them from endorsing candidates from Brooklyn dog catcher to the Presidency. Only a few people speak for a union, a trade association, a church, a school, for that matter--a family.

You have to be an apologist to assert this crap.

#144 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN AT 2010-01-21 02:53 PM | REPLY | FLAG

I'm not an apologist. I believe the corporations have the right to free speech. Otherwise, the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, ABC, NBC etc could be shut down by uncle sam. That, clearly, would be a problem of utmost significance.

And I'm not talking about just candidate endorsements skippy, I'm talking covering news stories...

Congress shall make no law.....you guys know the rest.

"I'm not an apologist. I believe the corporations have the right to free speech."

Corporations don't need "freedom of speech" because we also have freedom of the press.
To pretend freedom of the press is equivalent to running attack ads on candidates by companies not in the business of conveying news is ridiculous.

"How'd that work out, btw?"

Pretty damn well.

Corporations don't need "freedom of speech" because we also have freedom of the press.
To pretend freedom of the press is equivalent to running attack ads on candidates by companies not in the business of conveying news is ridiculous.

#161 | Posted by danni

* * * *

New York Times is a corporation. So is Gannett. So is Air America, MSNBC, and Time Warner. Should they be allowed to have an editorial page? Should the Chicago Sun be allowed to endorse candidates, if they're also selling advertising space on the same page?

#161. You have to parse pretty hard to say that one clause of the the 1st amendment applies to a certain group while another only applies to a few. Freedom of speech and press are treated very similarly in the law. You wouldn't like a world where corporations and labor unions had no free speech powers. Well- you do seem kind of totalitarian and inflexible - you might like it after all.

Somoco, so you believe that a corporation which is polluting the environment should be able to spend however much money they want bashing an environementalist candidate they feel threatened by?

What RIR is really saying is that corporate brain washing is perfectly alright with him. They can pit millions against any candidate that does not support their agenda, even in a local election where the politicians have campaign war chests less then the cost of a 20 year old Chevy. Why? Because they earned the right to buy politicians through honest hard work and ethical business practices.

This is exactly the kind of warped thinking that has lead to the fascist state America has become and he's all for it. Thanks a load moron. You are a real American patriot. I'll bet you work for Monsanto.

Danni - you sure have a hard on for corporations. what did one do to you (beside give you a place to work, money to feed your family, health care to pay for you if you were sick, retirement money, etc)

You must be a die hard unionist (that does not understand - if there is no corporation there is no union)

As to your historical sites - corporations and their involvement in society have evolved over time. In the 1700's a black man was counted as 3/5ths a person - now one is president, top player in the NFL, NBA, owner of a major broadcast outlet, top of the field in neurosurgery, pediatric cardiology, and other medical fields. A black man has been in charge of almost all the larger financial institutions at one time or another including Merrill Lynch. Should we go back to the way the founding fathers viewed a black man or should we move forward? Why are corporations any different?

Many have sited legal presidence to a group of people (unions, Corporations ect) being able to voice thier collective opionion - without restriction - and being recognised as a entity with rights under the same constitution. It it is a very narrow mind that cannot grasp that groups of people have similar rights to individuals.

Your biased view against corporations and business in general is not logical. It is not businesses that are thrusting thier will upon us - it is government. You can leave any company and go do anything you want. They have no power over you.

But government does - and has a method to enforce it called the military and police.

All McCain Feingold did was to take away funding options from the political parties - DEMS and REP - and as a result empowered people like Soros.

You asked "What is to stop the Chinese from buying the next presidential election with massive amounts of money to buy ads????

1) The chinese cannot vote in a US election (though the liberals are not for ANY enforcement of who should be eligible to vote)
2) What makes you think this one was not purchased by an ANTI AMERICAN GREEK?

Somoco, so you believe that a corporation which is polluting the environment should be able to spend however much money they want bashing an environementalist candidate they feel threatened by?

#165 | POSTED BY GRUMPY_TOO AT 2010-01-21 05:40 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Sure. Changing a candidate doesn't make you immune from liability for unlawful pollution.

I also think that labor unions can go ahead and fund the shit out of their candidates too.

I think reporting laws on who's getting what funding from whom will inform the electorate on who's carrying whose water.

Besides, it's not what I think. It's what I think the Constitution means. Like I said, if folks don't like it, amend the Constitution.

Besides, it's not what I think. It's what I think the Constitution means. Like I said, if folks don't like it, amend the Constitution.

#169 | Posted by somoco at 2010-01-21 06:17 PM | Reply

Buttttt somoco, stupid fucking liberals dont like the constitution...and obama boy's "wise latina bitch" wants to change it judicially.

This is exactly the kind of warped thinking that has lead to the fascist state America has become and he's all for it. Thanks a load moron. You are a real American patriot. I'll bet you work for Monsanto.

#166 | Posted by RingMaster
* * *

Anyone who mistakes the United States of America for a fascist state deserves to learn the difference on his own hide. This is the most anti-business Congress and President in recent history; somehow, they got elected, despite the fact that every Chamber of Commerce in the land didn't want them there.

By the way, what would your thesis make Obama? Der Fuhrer?

If we don't allow non-citizens to donate to campaigns, how can these global companies with foreign investors/shareholders and even owned by foreign corporations legally donate? If corporate citizenship is merely an extension of shareholder rights, doesn't the existence of foreign shareholders negate any right to influence US elections?

www.opensecrets.org

A breakdown of foreign connected PAC money in the last election.

"You can't understand the problem or solve it if you have a mental block on the actual definitions of the political terms used to define politics. "

Bingo! How can one have meaningful political arguments, or take meaningful political stances, when the terms are not agreed upon. You don't see mathematicians changing the definition of geometry and calling it algebra to make some important point in an argument. (Weird analogy, but it's what came to mind.) Words have meaning, and in political circles, those meanings are often quite specific and singular. Saying that fascism is communism for the rich doesn't even make sense. Yes, I know, communism as it has been practiced in real life has led to black marketeering and to politicos amassing wealth while others starve. But that doesn't change the definitions.

I don't see Obama as anything near a true socialist, not when he's in bed or near bed with corporations, when Congress is hugely influenced by corporate lobbies, and the Obama administration has done nothing--or nothing very public--to change that. Are there elements of socialism in his policies? Sure. Just as there are in France and England and Canada, none of which are truly socialist countries.

But then, DR would be boring, as someone said in another context, if we didn't rail at each other based on presumptions, assumptions, stereotypes, and misunderstood intellectual and political constructs.

"And you cringe at private sector money when unions do their collective political ads since day one.."

I don't. I think neither unions nor corporations should be considered individuals and have unlimited "speech"--i.e., political contributions.

Too, I think unions and corporations are fundamentally different, and not just in their tendencies regarding which side of the aisle they support. Unions are democratic by nature, if they follow their by-laws properly, or at least my union is. There is an annual national representative assembly where business of the union gets done in a very public setting. Corporations are run by small (usually) boards who often conduct their meetings in secret, with very limited input from their employees and stockholders (yes, there are stockholders' meetings, but do they operate the way RAs do? maybe I'm wrong here... but philosophically, I believe I have a point).

Regardless, I think this decision is terrible. I think the SC should be moving the other way and getting rid of this corporate personhood nonsense. As someone noted earlier, the individuals who make up the corporation already have free speech, and individually they can do whatever individuals (as in actual people) can do politically.

Feh.

+++++

"if you want to take the money out of politics, place a 200, 300 or however much you want per person per candidate limit per year. "

But by the logic of those in favor of this, wouldn't this very thing be limiting freedom of speech? Money is speech in this argument, right? What am I missing here?

+++++

"Only a few people speak for a union, a trade association, "

Wrong--see my earlier post. The NEA has a national representative assembly every year, with thousands of attendees, and they vote on national endorsements. There is not a small national board making those decisions.

"a church, a school, for that matter--a family. "

Um, a family is made up of only a few persons. And each one gets to vote. My wife and I don't always vote for the same people, and we certainly don't represent large numbers of others, nor influence them.

The first amendment ought to have NOTHING to do with money.

I can't wait for candidates to wear sponsors on their suits.

What this country needs is a Supreme Court without unqualified people like Clarence Thomas. Thank you, George Herbert Walker Bush, for your class act.

Racist.

The judicial activist Supreme Court conservative decision today gave worldwide corporations with loyalties not to America, but to China and elsewhere, the same rights to influence elections as US citizens.

Corporations represent financial interests from throughout the world and as such they should not have the same rights to influence US elections as US Citizens.

Conservatives had better bend over and grab the Vaseline as well as their ankles, as the first item on the new Corporate States of America agenda will be to open our borders, give illegals amnesty and let them all in.

The Chamber of Commerce and corporations have been working to restrain immigration enforcement for years. So if you as a conservative are against illegal immigration, you've just been, as they say, bitch slapped by your conservative justices. But if you think for a moment that pro-corporate conservatives are looking out for your interests as middle class you are very naive.

About Time! The whole ". . .Congress shall make no law prohibiting the freedom of speech. . ." had to do with political speech.

Money = Speech = Informed Populace = Our Democracy and our Republic is Safe in the hands of an informed electorate.

Money=Speech=Corruption=Our Populace Brainwashed by a Non-Human Entity.

Our Populace Brainwashed by a Non-Human Entity

Goddamn reptioids at it again?

Kissn - Informed? There is never a lack of information. It is the sheer volume of overkill, telling the big lie repeatedly until the browbeaten listener is swayed - that is the undue, unfair influence that the power of massive funds can provide, along with expensive slick production values that make the message appear more legitimate. It is an unfair distortion of our political process to allow monied interests to out-compete underfunded citizens who want to represent the people.

For all those bitchiong about Conan's $45 million, you now won't be able to buy the vote of a Junior Congressman for $45 million.

Finest government money can buy. I say out a surcharge on all political ads and pay off the debt in 2012. But will this kill the 543 or whatever the phoney non-profit front groups are?

Conclusion:Overt Corruption & Subversion of a Democracy by its own Judiciary is Treason!!!

This Treasonous "Decision" by the SCOTUS RATS is really a very overt form of Corpo/Fascist Terrorism!!!

His name was Dwight Eisenhower...
He predicted that the Defense Contractors and the Multinationals would one day take over this country...(wonder why we don't see any Republicans quoting Dwight anymore...)
Oh yeah. Almost forgot. He was also the LAST REPUBLICAN to have a BUDGET SURPLUS instead of a
DEFICIT...

Eisenhower, the Republican, also ran on an anti-war ticket, pledging to get us out of the pre-Vietnam quagmire in Korea, which he did.
Eisenhower was bald. And he wore glasses.
We won't see one like Ike again.

This ruling does not stip away limits on campaign contributions, it just strips away the unconstitutional suppression of free speech that was part and parcel of McCain-Feingold.

Y'all remember how Roberts got on the court don't you??? Democrats threatened a filibuster and the REpublicans threatened nuclear option.

No. Bush had 10 nominees in the lower court who were being filibustered. The gang of 14 brokered a deal where some of the 10 got an up/down vote and some were stymied. In the process, they killed any possibility of a nuclear option. I believe this is what you were thinking of with your statement.

Alito was actually filibustered but the senate was able to get enough votes for cloture. There was never a threat to filibuster Roberts.

It say's in the Constitution, that we have the right to aggress Congress. Since 1776 the Supreme Court has ruled that this also pertains to Lobbyist, Corporations, and any one else who wants to donate money to politicians, campaigns, or political party's.

If you want to get the money out of politics, putting a kluge on the system is not the way to go. Get Washington's fingers out of every sector of the economy, and the Corporations won't have the need to lobby, or buy ads.

The Amendment is written in terms of "speech," not speakers. Its text offers no foothold for excluding any category of speakers, from single individuals to partnerships of individuals, to unincorporated associations of individuals, to incorporated associations of individualsIndeed, to exclude or impede corporate speech is to muzzle the principal agents of the modern free economy. We should celebrate rather than condemn the addition of this speech to the public debate. - Scalia

Spot-on.

From the get go the law was thought by many to be highly quesionable, constitutionally. That Bush went along with it (passing the buck to the SCOTUS to overrule it) was another area where he disappointed conservatives.

I want transparency. Make public all contributions so voters can know who is support whom. If speech is also defined as advertisements, they cost $$$. So let every group or individual take part... from companies to unions to PACs to individuals, etc.

The Court, led by Justice Kennedy, held that the First Amendment stands against attempts to distinguish among different speakers, which may be a means to control content. In so doing, the Court declared that the government cannot impose restrictions on certain disfavored speakers such as corporations.

The Court also found that free speech rights under the First Amendment do not depend on a speaker's financial ability to engage in public discussion the fact that some speakers may have more wealth than others does not diminish their First Amendment rights.

Independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption, the basis for upholding other campaign finance restrictions. Speech is an essential mechanism of democracy and the means to hold officials accountable to the people. As such, political speech must prevail against laws that would suppress it.


blog.heritage.org

Independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption...

Wow, just wow.

"Stupidest thing Spud's read all day" flag

Be Well.

This is where I start to diverge from the Roberts opinion:

However, given its complexity and the deference courts show to administrative determinations, a speaker wishing to avoid criminal liability threats and the heavycosts of defending against FEC enforcement must ask a governmen-tal agency for prior permission to speak. The restrictions thus func-tion as the equivalent of a prior restraint, giving the FEC poweranalogous to the type of government practices that the First Amend-ment was drawn to prohibit.

"Criminal liability threats" against a corporation are functionally quite different than threats of criminal liability against an individual.
Laws burdening such speech are subject to strict scrutiny, which requires the Gov-ernment to prove that the restriction "furthers a compelling interest and is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest."

I feel like McCain-Feingold sought to do just that.

Distinguishing wealthy indi-viduals from corporations based on the latter's special advantages of, e.g., limited liability, does not suffice to allow laws prohibiting speech. It is irrelevant for First Amendment purposes that corporate funds may "have little or no correlation to the public's support for the corporation's political ideas." Austin, supra, at 660. All speakers, in-cluding individuals and the media, use money amassed from the eco-nomic marketplace to fund their speech, and the First Amendment protects the resulting speech.

This seems simply wrong. One person speaking needn't have "funded" their speech; I see crazy people on the street speaking without "funds" all the time. However, a corporation's speech stems from and is funded by their economic interests.

Austin interferes with the "open marketplace"of ideas protected by the First Amendment. New York State Bd. of Elections v. Lopez Torres, 552 U. S. 196, 208. Its censorship is vast inits reach, suppressing the speech of both for-profit and nonprofit,both small and large, corporations.

The idea that the "marketplace" should be comprised solely of individuals seems lost on Roberts.

And the appearance of influence or access will not causethe electorate to lose faith in this democracy.

This cited assertion by Roberts seems dubious. Half the electorate doesn't bother to vote because they think it won't matter.

But these are lesser points. Ultimately I think the problem is the First Amendment. The way the Amendment is crafted, it is very challenging to muzzle any speech whatsoever. It's okay to lie in almost every instance. It's okay for the cops to lie to attempt to withdraw a confession from a suspect, for example.

I'm not surprised McCain-Feingold didn't pass Constitutional muster, and from what I understand of the Constitution I think the decision may well be right. But I do wonder if the problem it attempts to fix can ever be fixed. Perhaps once all our manufacturing jobs have moved overseas and corporations have no reason to meddle in our affairs it won't be an issue any longer.

One thing that strikes me reading this opinion is that it was right about 1975 or so when the flood gates opened and corporate interests were allowed to participate in elections. And since that time, we've seen the gradual erosion of the middle class, wage stagnation, and the slow decline of American prestige.

JEFFJ-
What it comes down to is a desire to limit (or eliminate) political speech from a disfavored entity.

The rationale use for this is highly suspect. Corporate money doesn't necessarily bring corruption anymore than the absence of is last cycle eliminated it.

Wow, just wow.

"Stupidest thing Spud's read all day" flag

Be Well.

#194 | Posted by dethspud at 2010-01-22 07:25 AM

I understand why you feel that way, but context is important. That an individual or a collection of incorporated individuals choose to spend money in advertisement (political speech) is not a corrupt act or the appearance of a corrupt act and as such should not be used as a justification to deny anyone their first-Ammendment right to speak freely.

#194 - SPUD
I disagree. If you're arguing that money brings corruption, why single out corporations? Why not include all other groups? And if you do that (thus limiting contributions to only individuals who aren't banded together)... then are you also going to limit how much a single person can give?

I'm not surprised McCain-Feingold didn't pass Constitutional muster, and from what I understand of the Constitution I think the decision may well be right.

Which is precisely why some on the right are celebrating the decision - constitutionality was upheld.

As usual, I find Stevens the one making the most sense:

Neither Citizens United's nor any other corporation's speech has been "banned," ante, at 1. All that the parties dispute is whether CitizensUnited had a right to use the funds in its general treasury to pay for broadcasts during the 30-day period. The notion that the First Amendment dictates an affirmative answer to that question is, in my judgment, profoundly misguided. Even more misguided is the notion that the Court mustrewrite the law relating to campaign expenditures by for-profit corporations and unions to decide this case.
...
Scope of the Case
The first reason is that the question was not properlybrought before us. In declaring 203 of BCRA facially unconstitutional on the ground that corporations' electoral expenditures may not be regulated any more stringently than those of individuals, the majority decides this case on a basis relinquished below, not included in the questions presented to us by the litigants, and argued here only inresponse to the Court's invitation. This procedure is unusual and inadvisable for a court.2 Our colleagues'suggestion that "we are asked to reconsider Austin and, in effect, McConnell," ante, at 1, would be more accurate if rephrased to state that "we have asked ourselves" to reconsider
those cases.
...
The jurisdictional statement never so much as cited Aus-tin, the key case the majority today overrules.
...
"It is only in exceptional cases coming here from the federal courts that questions not pressed or passed upon below are reviewed,'" Youakim v. Miller, 425 U. S. 231, 234 (1976) (per curiam) (quoting Duignan v. United States, 274 U. S. 195, 200 (1927)), and it is "only in the mostexceptional cases" that we will consider issues outside the questions presented, Stone v. Powell, 428 U. S. 465, 481, n. 15 (1976). The appellant in this case did not so much asassert an exceptional circumstance, and one searches themajority opinion in vain for the mention of any. That is unsurprising, for none exists.

Setting the case for reargument was a constructive step,but it did not cure this fundamental problem. Essentially,five Justices were unhappy with the limited nature of thecase before us, so they changed the case to give themselves an opportunity to change the law.

Which is precisely why some on the right are celebrating the decision - constitutionality was upheld.

Sure, but the Constitution itself is fucked. Not really something to cheer about.

JeffJ, you can sincerely say the presence of corporate money in elections doesn't give the appearance of corruption?

What then would meet the threshold of appearance of corruption? Anything? How about when the CEO of the corporations making the voting machines promises to deliver a State to the political party he favors? :)

If you're arguing that money brings corruption, why single out corporations?

Because America is already obviously, hopelessly overly influenced by corporate agendas to the detriment of the long term needs and desires of it's actual flesh and blood citizens.

All this decision did was to make an already too powerful political presence become even more powerful.

America can never regain any of the ground it's lost due to a corporately corrupted system until it takes corporate money out of politics completely.

This move is a huge step backwards and it's ultimate effects will be to increase the divide between rich and poor while ensuring that the people's will has little to no effect on policy.

Citizens groups with a particular pet political peeve they wanna see addressed are a legitimate PAC by Spud's lights.

Corporate PACs, otoh, have one basic goal, to use their money to elect "friendly" pols in order to affect legislation in order to fatten their bottom line whether that be by changing existing rules like regulations, being given tailored tax breaks or ignoring calls for reform.

Which isn't to say that industry should not be allowed input in the decision making process. Of course, they must be allowed to do that. But there is a line you cross over when you go from informing policy to writing it for yerself.

Corporate America has been over that line for far too long now and this latest bad decision is just gonna make a bad situation worse.

Be Well.

Sure, but the Constitution itself is fucked.

Then ammend it.

Our government doesn't get to decide which aspects of the constitution are good or bad and then legislate accordingly.

you can sincerely say the presence of corporate money in elections doesn't give the appearance of corruption?

In terms of campaign contributions - yes.

In terms of paid-for political speech - no.

This great for the economy. The ad business has been really suffering lately. With the mid term campaigns starting any minute now, all those out-of-work ad execs can get back to it, bringing us the Senator from WalMart and the the congressman from the NRA.

Constitutionality aside, does anyone here think that limiting campaign ads to the 2 political parties is a better dissemination of political information than opening that speech up to EVERYONE?

You asked "What is to stop the Chinese from buying the next presidential election with massive amounts of money to buy ads????

1) The chinese cannot vote in a US election (though the liberals are not for ANY enforcement of who should be eligible to vote)

^^

Corporations cant vote either, but they can sure as hell spend a shitload of money to influence someone elses vote.

"shrug", it's the influence that's the issue..people believe what they see on the television and read on the internet...obviously since most of the arguments I see here quote sources from both.

Not many sources actually point to the factual integrity of the candidate, just someone elses opinion of them, and thats just sad.

Loh

"that is the undue, unfair influence that the power of massive funds can provide, along with expensive slick production values that make the message appear more legitimate."

And I don't believe that most of Obama's funding came from such interests, but those of you who claim he's an empty suit should be interested in campaign finance reform. (Granted, most of his money allegedly came in small increments.) Obama's campaign outspent McCain's by, I believe, hundreds of percentage points.

+++++

"(though the liberals are not for ANY enforcement of who should be eligible to vote)"

Bullshit. Another conservative or anti-liberal with a hugely wide brush. Enforcement? Yes, for sure, through voter rolls and registration (for which ID is required, no?). This liberal, and most known by this liberal, is NOT for "vote early, vote often."


Constitutionality aside, does anyone here think that limiting campaign ads to the 2 political parties is a better dissemination of political information than opening that speech up to EVERYONE?

#207 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-01-22 08:18 AM | Reply | Flag

Do you really believe that a America, Inc. is going to support any 3rd party candidate?

This ruling is a gift to the two political parties that are robbing this nation blind and further entrenched their strangle hold on the election cycle.

This has guaranteed that you and I will be voting for the lesser of two evils inperpetuity.

Now, if we could just get the Federal Gov't to be "lesser" 726...

Is anyone really surprised by this verdict? The court (Roberts) decided to "expand" its view on this case months ago. The fix has been in for a long time.
Both liberals and conservatives are outraged by this ruling. John Roberts has proven that he is a activist, corporaate hack with a clear agenda, in direct contrast to the lies he told at his comnfirmation hearing.
If you are as disgusted by this rape of our political process as I am then call your senators and congressman and tell them it's time to impeach John Roberts for lying to Congress before he does any more damage.

#213 | Posted by igmoramus

Sorry, but the majority opinion got it right.

McCain/Feingold, the part that SCOTUS just struck down anyways, was a blatant assault on the 1st Ammendment.

Money is just money.

It is not speech.


Money is just money.

It is not speech.

#215 | Posted by TedBaxter

When the government by force prevents an individual or an association of incorporated individuals from expressing a political opinion, it sure is hell is speech.

When the government by force prevents an individual or an association of incorporated individuals from expressing a political opinion, it sure is hell is speech.

#216 | Posted by JeffJ

good to see JeffJ defending flag burning

What these wingnuts have said is that the veracity of the speech is not germane to the speech itself, ie: that the fact that the film about Hillary Clinton was riddled with lies was no reason that it could not be presented to the public in a political election as factual... and by unnamed or undetermined sources.

good to see JeffJ defending flag burning

While I find flag-burning to be detestable, it is an expression of political speech and is thus protected by the first Ammendment.

#218 | Posted by Corky

Are you going to honestly suggest that the ads that are "allowed" to be aired under McCain/Feingold are truthful and factual?

I read the excerpt printed above from the dissenting opinion and no reference is made to the constitution itself.

#219

Yelling "Fire" in a theatre is no more protected speech than allowing corporations to have not even the same, but superior rights to individuals.

Yelling "Fire" in a theatre is no more protected speech than allowing corporations to have not even the same, but superior rights to individuals.

That's a different argument altogether.

That's like saying slander and libel laws are unconstitutional.

You just moved the goalposts, my friend.

-Are you going to honestly suggest that the ads that are "allowed" to be aired under McCain/Feingold are truthful and factual?

I'm going to suggest it will only get worse with unlimited corporate funds paid to elect their stooges.

This is Great News for the American Voter!

Sincerely

The Teabagged Teabaggers

-That's a different argument altogether

Different than your flag burning example? Not at all.

www.nytimes.com

good article from the nytimes...

this is a power play by the right to keep
White Rightie in power...simple as that.

they've officially hit desperation mode,
and are sliding this nation towards Fascism
or Corporatism...which is essentially the
same thing...

Hooray for regression! Feudal system, here we come again!

The people have no voice and no choices, so that the crooks may roll in Rolls Royces.

...THOMAS IS UNQUALIFIED...

~Reinsurelaw

Agreed.

And on that shiny note, Spud'll leave ya.

Be Well.

/Tater o' Doom, exiting the DR as ya do
stage left.

"Democrats threatened a filibuster and the REpublicans threatened nuclear option.... as it is, we left the filibuster intact. just another example of naive expectations of equal treatment when roles are reversed. It won't be, it never is, Democrats never learn."
#40 | Posted by danni

Danni, Danni, Danni....Democrats are never for equal treatment when the roles are reversed.

"Once the Democrats lose their filibuster proof majority, they seek to change the filibuster rules."

" Filibuster Reform' Heading To Senate"

sweetness-light.com

"Danni, Danni, Danni....Democrats are never for equal treatment when the roles are reversed."

What silly nonsense, like you can't remember "up or down vote!" Those were the same folks who now filibuster virtually every bill.
Do you really have that short of a memory or are you just a liar???

"Nuclear option
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

en.wikipedia.org

The Republicans threatened to do it now the Democrats need to do it.
They need to realize that it is the only way to stop the obstructionists from preventing any business at all from moving forward.

politics.newsvine.com

85.2% think decision was wrong, of course noone will do anything about it.

its nice to have this issue so clear.
if THIS piece of shit is against something, Im against it..

www.redstate.com

its nice to have this issue so clear.
if THIS piece of shit is against something, Im against it..

www.redstate.com

Can't wait until Fox News runs for President.

With the web, we can have instant information about who gives to whom, thereby being able to make an informed descision as to the candidate's alliances. The more political speech, the better.

The American people have the intelligence to run their own lives and to figure out who will operate in the best interests of this country politically with more information, not less.

The founders knew that free political speech was necessary to an informed electorate. Congress and our media (which are corporate owned entities) have sought to control the message, thereby taking our freedoms from us without our consent or knowledge. This will end with open ended freedom of political speech.

Thank you, Supreme Court. This one was For The People!!!

"Do you really have that short of a memory or are you just a liar???
#230 | Posted by danni at 2010-01-22 12:17 PM"

KBM's memory is just fine, danni.

Case in point: the Democrats never had a filibuster-proof majority. Just how many times does the tired, old "Democrats had sixty seats in the Senate" claim have to be swatted down?

"With the web, we can have instant information about who gives to whom, thereby being able to make an informed descision as to the candidate's alliances."

Yeah most voters will be going on line and checking and hey, most corporations won't start new corporation with names like "Good People who Love America" or something. Any corporation can hide their identitity any time they want, foreign ownership can pretend to be the most American corporation in history.
This was a horrible decision, most Americans are opposed to it and hopefully we will find ways to go around it. Proposals are already moving in Congress with things like requiring stockholders to approve of political ads, etc.

APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD

now becomes:

APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE BALLOT BOX

And the same morons who swallowed it the first time will swallow it again.

Anyone check out the brief provided by the ACLU regarding this case?

Cya Barney!

pYou too Al!

It's payback time you punk ass bitches.

Since corporations have personhood, in the completely insane view of the Supreme Court, they should be allowed to run for office. In 2012, we could choose between Wal-Mart as the Republican nominee for president and Ben 'n Jerry's as the Democrat.

#41 | Posted by rcade

Ff

Here's another take on this sorry state of the union...

CALL FOR IMMEDIATE ARREST OF 5 SUPREME COURT JUSTICES FOR TREASON
January 22, 2010 by Gordon Duff 13 Comments

THE FIVE THAT STAND AGAINST ALL AMERICANS, THE "MAFIA" JUDGES

By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

Five members of the Supreme Court declared that a "corporation" is a person, not a "regular person" but one above all natural laws, subject to no God, no moral code but one with unlimited power over our lives, a power awarded by judges who seem themselves as grand inquisitors in an meant to hunt down all hertics who fail to serve their god, the god of money.

Their ruling has made it legal for foreign controlled corporations to flush unlimited money into our bloated political system to further corrupt something none of us trust and most of us fear. The "corporation/person" that the 5 judges, the "neocon" purists, have turned the United States over to isn't even American. Our corporations, especially since our economic meltdown are owned by China, Russia and the oil sheiks along with a few foreign banks. They don't vote, pay taxes, fight in wars, need dental care, breathe air, drive cars or send children to school. Anyone who thinks these things are people is insane.

www.veteranstoday.com

"Ben 'n Jerry's"

MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm, Cherry Garcia

upload.wikimedia.org

our media (which are corporate owned entities) have sought to control the message, thereby taking our freedoms from us without our consent or knowledge. This will end with open ended freedom of political speech.

No, no it won't. There is no "open ended freedom" of political speech. The amount you can speak through the media is limited by one thing: your amount of money. Those with more money have more opportunity to control the message.

The American people have the intelligence to run their own lives and to figure out who will operate in the best interests of this country politically with more information, not less.

If the information were factual and accurate, perhaps. But this so called "information" needn't be. Lying is protected First Amendment speech. Look at Sarah Palin's line about Death Panels. Very effective political speech, and a lie.

Now some Americans, I grant you, are smart enough to separate the wheat from the chaff. And adding more chaff just makes the wheat harder to find. "More" is not necessarily "Better," though that might not be so apparent when looking at our over-consumptive, debt-laden, obese electorate.

Gives new meaning to "Corporate Citizen" doesn't it?

Fucking useless Conservatives.

#3 | Posted by YAV

Politicians in general suck.

Americans deserve the government they allow.

You thought the current corruption we have in DC, the corporations writing bills, and lobbysists owning the place was bad NOW?

This just opened the floodgates, folks. Consider this the final nail in our coffin. It's over.

This is the opposite of "freedom of speech." Corporations are not people nor do they represent the actual interests of the electorate. Corruption will always exist, yes, but this decision makes it worse. May the biggest international conglomerate win. Good God, sometimes we really suck.

If you hate this decision and you voted for Bush, I hope you realize you made it happen by his Supreme Court choices.

Please, all the righties here so far have loved it. Why? Because it's another 5-4 decision that anyone not FAR RIGHT hates.

Scrumplate: So, Unions are not people? Corporations are made up of people, just like unions.

How about letting everyone have their say and letting the American people sort it all through.

And, if not, what are you afraid of... that the people might find the truth amidst all the talk?

If liberals came out strongly in favor of this ruling the same folks who are strongly in favor of it now would oppose it. The postitions taken by many on the right have nothing to do with belief or issue but are simpy reactions to the postions taken by those they perceive to be the left.
These people don't think and decide on issues, they wait for emotional cues and respond like rodents.

they wait for emotional cues

Like the word "corporation"?

LOL! Nailed it, Jak...

*insert diatribe about corporate personhood here

I noticed no one bothers to check on the ACLU's brief. They went WITH the decision.

I was looking through my copy of the Constitution, and I could not see in any spot where corporations have equal rights to citizens... Where the Hell is that written?

Anyway, I would dismiss the Supreme Court's Corporate 5's decision as a political error, but that cannot be... They are the high court of the land and their decision is final. I'd say Judge Roberts ought to be recalled over this. And President Obama, as leader of teh Democratic Party, has more trouble than just health care ahead of him because of the decision.

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