Maybe they can turn them into hotplates...

It should come with directions for removing the solar panel and turning it into something useful.

The Proclaimers....like the dudes who walked 500 miles and then walked 500 more?

Dx,

Why do you make such a parallel? Haitians aren't atheists like one outspoken DR poster. They have lost everything, including their Bibles.

They have lost everything, including their Bibles.

#4 | Posted by L_RContrarian

They can't eat a solar bible. Hell, the damn thing isn't even suitable for toilet paper or fire starter, like a paper bible would be. They NEED food, water and medical supplies. What a waste of space on the transport. What a waste of resources.

They have lost everything, including their Bibles.

...along with food, water, shelter, electricity, and medical supplies. Is a solar bible going to purify water for them? Will it dig their loved ones out of the rubble? Will it treat their infected wounds? Can they eat it?

Of course not. Books of bedtime stories are pretty low on Haiti's list of priorities, Professor Shit-For-Brains. The only thing a solar-powered bible will do is make a few Hatians a little more complacent as they die because the arrival of lifesaving supplies was delayed to make room for useless crap.

#6 z
Careful what you state, especially as the flaming atheist you are. The 180 degree principle still applies to your rantings.

Careful what you state

LR, you're a fucking idiot. The fact that you can manage defend this madness speaks volumes for your worth (or lack thereof) as a human being. If you can't manage to spit out a coherent argument, do us all the courtesy of keeping silent while you go fuck yourself.

From the article: "We want to equip short-term groups, disaster relief teams, church teams and other ministries with the Word of God in a format the people can use"

If these miserable fuckstains wanted to proselytize while aiding the relief effort, they could have written bible verses on the wrappers of bottled water. They could have copied down the whole goddamn bible if they wanted to, and given the Haitians something useful. But no... these pigs felt the need to hamper the relief effort by providing utterly useless items. Perhaps LR or another apologist for these sacks of shit would care to explain how a solar powered bible does more good than, say, food, water, or medicine?

The inhuman wretches of this "church" should be marooned on an island with nothing but a pint of rum, one of their precious "proclaimers," and a pistol with one shot. The rum and pistol, in case you were curious, demonstrate that I am capable of more compassion than they could ever muster.

".....do us all the courtesy of keeping silent while you go fuck yourself."

PharmZ

Fuck you're stupid, Bani."

Posted by jpw elsewhere

what's with this word?

what's with this word?

It emphasizes the extraordinary nature of your stupidity. Just look at LR's previous posts here... that dimwit actually substituting solar-powered bibles for lifesaving supplies is somehow a good idea. I'd love to see his pathetic attempt at rationalizing that.

Fuck you're stupid, Bani."

Posted by jpw (& PharmZ)

no, it emphasizes your extraordinary tendencies toward mendacity at times:>)

Solar bible.

"See I warned you sinners"Pat robertson

"It is certain that when Haiti's earthquake struck, people like Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel were conducting focus group polls to find out how U.S. assistance to Haiti would be received by the public. Although a clear majority of Americans favor helping the beleaguered people of Haiti, and many feel that Obama's assistance has been extremely slow, Emanuel only seems to be concerned about the handful of Americans, including Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck, who have uttered racist language in reacting to the Haitian tragedy, are worth listening to. But Emanuel does not view things through the enlightened lenses of America's founders but through the religious myopic eyesight of Talmudic interpreters."

Bring back Pappa and Baby doc,
Tontonmacoutes could have taken care of this(sarc)ooh the terror.

Emanuel only seems to be concerned about the handful of Americans, including Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck.
Gimme a break!

"Talmudic interpreters."
Its the jews for christ's sake

"When Aristide regained the presidency in 2000, he took immediate steps to improve the lot of the Haitian workers -- he raised the minimum wage to two dollars a day. Bush decided it was time for the CIA and the Southern Command to remove Aristide, which they did with the help of France and Canada. Aristide was exiled to the Central African Republic and then South Africa."

Canada?

Do tell

"Avatar" sure was a great movie...

Preval is a pretty good egg. Bush did a lot of things while he distracted us with duct tape and Orange Alerts.

What they really need to distribute down there are the new hand cranked cell phone chargers. Being able to let your family know seems like a lot more of a priority. Haiti's already 96% Christian. They'll be preaching to the choir - who have no churches to sing in anymore.

to let their families know they're alright and have communication for whatever ... (talking on the phone and typing don't work too well LOL)

"Preval regained office in 2006 after a phony election engineered with the help of the National Endowment for Democracy's International Republican Institute (IRI) and the National Democratic Institute (NDI), two CIA contrivances acting under the aegis of the U.S. Republican and Democratic Parties, respectively. Soros has adopted Haitian politicians like former Prime Minister Michle Pierre-Louis who continue to advocate disastrous "free trade" policies and provides them with funding and travel expenses through his Open Society Institute (OSI).UN "peacekeeping" forces in Haiti have ensured that Aristide and his Lavalas Party does not regain power. One of the methods the UN uses is periodically raiding pro-Aristide slums and killing Lavalas activists in their homes. Bill Clinton was rewarded last year for his guile and deceit committed against Haiti by being named by UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon as the UN's Special Envoy for Haiti.

"When Honduran President Manuel Zelaya also raised the minimum wage in his country, the CIA and Southern Command arranged for a military coup to remove him. Obama has now decided to place the Southern Command, headquartered in the right-wing Latin American exiles' rat's nest of Miami, to coordinate humanitarian relief in Haiti, along with the head of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) a CIA pass-through headed by Rajiv Singh, a one-time political hack for Pennsylvania's corrupt Democratic Governor Ed Rendell."

sure AU, if you say so...

"Haiti under Aristide and Preval, was forced by Clinton to agree to horribly one-sided "free trade" deals that saw Haiti's workers press ganged into toiling away in Port-au-Prince sweat shops to produce clothing for America's major retailers like Disney. Haiti had no choice -- Clinton imposed devastating economic sanctions against Aristide to force his compliance with the diktats of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank. Clinton sweetened the pie for his Arkansas rice-growing cronies by ensuring that Haiti went from being an exporter of nutritional rice to an importer of expensive bleached and genetically-modified "junk rice," primarily from Arkansas."

Canada?

"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires - desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, hewill scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."-- Bertrand Russell, philosopher - "Roads to Freedom"

Bush decided it was time for the CIA and the Southern Command to remove Aristide, which they did with the help of France and Canada.

?

Preval stayed in Haiti in the years between his first term and subsequent reelection rather than running off to Paris or Miami to live in the lap of luxury (as so many others have) and worked on a wide range of positive changes and internationl economic investment in Haiti. While he was President the crime rate dropped to a fraction it was before his sweeping changes.

I could list the others, but since you seem to know better than a member of the Haitian community I won't bother. :-)

I could list the others, but since you seem to know better than a member of the Haitian community I won't bother. :-)

#25 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I don't & I'm sure you don't either:>)

Bush decided it was time for the CIA and the Southern Command to remove Aristide, which they did with the help of France and Canada.

?

#24 | Posted by bruceaz

BANI

MIAMI! That's CRAZY! Why can't they fly planes from Boise, Idaho and take a few more hours to reach the Caribbean?

onlinejournal.com

#27 | Posted by Bani

I read the article but find it hard to beleive the Canadians are the bastards of the western hemisphere

Canadians are the Swiss of North America.

Canadians are the Swiss of North America

That's an insult to Canadians.How liberal is the swiss immigration policy?How many Swiss helping in Afghanistan?What are the swiss doing anywhere?

Even thier cheese has holes in it,LOL

I read the article but find it hard to beleive the Canadians are the bastards of the western hemisphere

#29 | Posted by bruceaz

i thought we were?

You are.

Even thier cheese has holes in it,LOL

#32 | Posted by bruceaz

too bad this doesn't apparently:>)

Bani,you're probably right,I really don't know.Aristade seemed ok but he did have some weird shit going on at the time,Guess it just depends on what you read,still wierd things going on in Honduras.

I liked Obama in the beginning,Now all I can say is I hate him less then Bush & co.

That's an insult to Canadians.How liberal is the swiss immigration policy?How many Swiss helping in Afghanistan?What are the swiss doing anywhere?

#31 | Posted by bruceaz

Referring to their minding their own business and not stirring up trouble or sticking their noses where it doesn't belong in the world.

Referring to their minding their own business and not stirring up trouble or sticking their noses where it doesn't belong in the world.

And the Canadians are?

I hope you're not refering to WWII,which the Swiss found an excellant BUSINESS opportunity

I won't apologize for the Swiss and WW2. The only official 'force' they have is the Swiss Guard at the Vatican. They haven't started wars, even though they're probably one of the heaviest armed citizens outside the Israelis.

I have no beef with the Swiss,the Canadians are peace keepers.Yes its kinda tough keeping peace in Kandahar.

.Yes its kinda tough keeping peace in Kandahar.

But, they're trying.

Still,I can't believe the Canadians had any interest in suppressing Haitians,Bani

who knows bruceaz?

Not me Bani.
World is full of power players and the like.
U.S. baseball leagues probably running it all,haha.
Have a good night,talk to you another day.
Bruce

:>_)

Solar Powered Bibles to Haiti?

Good one, Onion!

Not an Onion article?

Wow, just wow.

Whatsleft had it right then...

What a waste of space on the transport. What a waste of resources.

S'rsly.

...the bastards of the western hemisphere

Meh, Spud's been called worse.

Bani is correct to note that the US through the auspices of the World Bank and IMF are continually forcing their client states to honor odious one sided deals that impoverish the poor and fatten the bottom line of bigbiz.

That Canada, who's economy is massively intertwined with the US, goes along with that stuff more often than not is a damned shame.

Nice Bertrand Russell quote too, btw.

Be Well.

As nice as solar-powered Bibles must be, if a group is going to commit resources to Haiti right now, I'm thinking that food, water and medical supplies might be slightly more helpful to them.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.

Give a man religion and he will starve to death while praying for a fish.

Just another example of how useless organized religion is.

Most of you seemed to miss the point that these bible ghetto blasters are loud enough for a crowd of 300 people to hear. That is damned loud and probably more than a little annoying to people who don't have a place to sleep or food to eat.

Almost as annoying and useless as the stinking piles of Republican base that sent them.

Wow, considering a certain recent election in this country I would think that the nation's liberals in particular would understand the value of providing hope to a hopeless people.

In a tragedy like this spiritual reinforcement can be worth more than food, and what's more, it's not consumable.

How's that for a 'coherent argument' zombiehunter? Honestly, I shame myself by even addressing your vulgarity and narrow-mindedness.

But I doubt you've quite understood that "man does not live by bread alone." Give a Haitian a fish and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Give him hope and he'll survive another week until more food arrives.

How's that for a 'coherent argument' zombiehunter?

Like I said, you can't drink a bottle of "hope," and a solar-powered bible isn't going to treat any injuries.

"Man does not live by bread alone...."

An idea NOT often adopted by the non-religous. If these people have identified a demand for Bibles, they've identified a demand. In that case, you need to snark at the earthquake survivors for wanting such things.

Talk to any medical professional and they'll tell you all about how hope enables the body to heal itself.

As we battle for time to get enough material resources through a clogged airport, a renewable source of spiritual support can be worth more than its weight in consumable supplies.

Let's not forget that this is a very, very small portion of the materials being sent to Haiti. There's more than enough money and food pledged to the country already, what they need more than anything right now is enough encouragement and hope to buy them time and discourage panic and rioting.

How Christian it is of them to send bibles instead of food, water, clothing, shelter (you know the things people in that situation REALLY need). Assholes.

"Assholes...."

BOYRACER---Does anyone pick up and use these Bibles once they get to Haiti? If someone does, then you've called that survivor and asshole for thinking he knows more what he needs after a quake than you do.

Beyond that---You idea that sending a Bible to someone is an un-Christian act gave me my first smile this morning.

Not adopted? How do you mean? It's pretty well accepted that the subconscious has an extraordinary influence on the body, particularly in times of crisis. This is true whether or not you 'adopt' the idea; I think you object more to the terminology than to the actual concept. Perhaps next time I'll quote a source you can understand more clearly.

I doubt there's a demand specifically for Bibles but I do think stories of people battling over food supplies with machetes speaks to a need for some kind of spiritual or moral/ethical support.

Let's not forget that this is a very, very small portion of the materials being sent to Haiti.

The place is a logistical nightmare. Every man-hour that gets devoted to distributing solar-powered bibles is a man-hour that could have been spent bringing something useful to someone who is sick, injured, or thirsty.

I do think stories of people battling over food supplies with machetes speaks to a need for some kind of spiritual or moral/ethical support.

...and it speaks even louder to a need for food and supplies! Ever consider that, Professor Shit-For-Brains?

"In a tragedy like this spiritual reinforcement can be worth more than food"
That is just plain not true. At this time more than ever you must return to the basics of survival.

"man does not live by bread alone."
Yes he needs water too.

"Give a Haitian a fish and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Give him hope and he'll survive another week until more food arrives"
No he fucking wont you stupid asshole
How about "give him hope and he will be dead tomorrow"

You must be one of those people who defends prayer over chemo for dying cancer patients too?

Does anyone pick up and use these Bibles once they get to Haiti?

You should be asking yourself "Does anyone pick up and use the bibles before their basic needs are met?" Chances are, no.

The fact that there are any of them lying around means that an equivalent amount of lifesaving material was delayed. All of this can be laid at the feet of good-for-nothing fundamentalists thousands of miles away who decided that nonessential items were a priority in the immediate relief effort.

If you had to choose between medicine that would save your life and a solar-powered bible to keep you placid while you die of a preventable infection (if you're a Christian, that is), what's it going to be?

The fact that these have a small size/cost per person (300) ratio could be used as a argument for this being an alright idea. I disagree and I feel that every penny should be used in the absolute most efficient way especially considering the cost of these solar bibles per person ($cost/300 MAX) vs one Haitian's yearly income.

"Yes, he needs water, too..."

The fact is, survivors need a lot of things, and Bibles could well be one of them.

The arrogance of people deciding for others they DON'T need a certain form of help at a distance of thousands of miles interests me.

If they use the Bibles they use the Bibles. That makes them "shit-for-brains" as far as you're concerned. I'm sure the Haitian people thank you for that one.

"Does anyome pick up Bibles before their basic needs are met..."

They do if they see the Bible as being basic need. You don't---But of course you aren't there and you aren't a Christian---

Those poor shit-for-brains Haitians. How unlucky not to have been born a ZOMBIEHUNTER.

The fact that these have a small size/cost per person (300) ratio could be used as a argument for this being an alright idea.

Once basic needs are met, sure, send in the non-essential relief items for "moral support". Basic needs are not being met, however, and until they are it is irresponsible to pass out these gadgets... especially when it would benefit far more people to bust them apart, hook the solar panels together, and use the juice for more practical purposes.

"The arrogance of people deciding for others they DON'T need a certain form of help at a distance of thousands of miles interests me."

As in Americans spending $thousands and resources on bibles?? I really think they do NEED those resources elsewhere.

Do you preach to 300 or do you feed and heal 150 dying kids??

"They are irresponsible to pass out these gadgets..."

From your point of view, which is of course entirely warped by personal bias. Haitian CHRISTIANS may have a different view. That seems like an obvious truth.

"I really think they need those resources elsewhere...."

Of course you do. But that's you, not them. What's your point---Other people don't think like you do?

"Do you preach to 300 or do you feed 150 dying kids....?"

When did it become either/or?----Ah, that's right---In your mind.

You guys are leading with those unexamined biases of thoughts and emotions you often say you don't have.

They do if they see the Bible as being basic need.

Lol, if you pick up a bible instead of the supplies that will save your life, then yes... you have shit for brains.

You don't---But of course you aren't there and you aren't a Christian---

You aren't there, either. You're not malnourished, injured, infected, or thirsty. To presume that an individual (even a Christian) in that state would still view a Bible as a "basic need" demonstrates a profound ignorance of human nature. It also suggests that you hold a delusional worldview sculpted by the luxuries of life in an industrialized nation and a slavish devotion to dogma.

The fact is that people are dying.

If they are religious they may want their bibles and wish that they still had them. But do you really think it would be very christian to ask the relief workers to free up some space for my bibles that could be used to save the dying people laying next to me pleading for water???

When did it become either/or?

When there is only a finite amount of space on transports and manpower to distribute their contents.

For the love of God, VINCENZ---I people want Bibles just give the things to them. It's as simple as that.

Basic need can be defined universally and scientifically. They are facts not opinions. If you take them away it is impossible to live.

The bible isn't on the list.

"When there is only a finite amount of space on transports...."

Sounds like you're really making a comment on the shit-for-brains cargo masters than the shit-for-brains Christians or Haitians.

"Basic need can be defined universally and scientifically,,,,"

Horsehockey. Throw Maslow at me, PeeWee, you're doomed....

"If you had to choose between medicine that would save your life and a solar-powered bible to keep you placid while you die of a preventable infection (if you're a Christian, that is), what's it going to be?"

The medicine.

Now let's lay aside the oversimplified false dichotomy and consider a more realistic scenario. We're dealing with 3 million people in need here and we can't possibly get enough resources to all of them. So:

We have 100 people fighting over a small supply of food.

What do we need more - an insignificantly larger supply of food, or something that will help people stop fighting, save their energy, and wait for more help to arrive?

If you know anything about ascetics then you know the body can survive for a very long time on very little provided that the mind stays in control. I can attest from personal experience that when you're close to death inner strength is more important than bodily strength.
We can't possibly get sufficient relief into Haiti in the time we have. Considering that I think it's worthwhile to help people to hold on and survive until help arrives.

Haitian CHRISTIANS may have a different view. That seems like an obvious truth.

Why doesn't someone ask the machete-wielding mobs, shell-shocked people sleeping in the streets, and soon-to-be amputees lying in tent hospitals with infected open fractures? Would they want your bible or your canteen? Would they want a spritzing of holy water or a course of antibiotics?

"The lord is your shelter, and you shall not want food, water, or antibiotics!"

ZOMBIE---If the man with the machete, or the man sleeping in the streets, want Bibles I can't see why you argue with that. They want what they want, I assume because---Like all human beings---They know what they need.

I'd imagine many people, to answer your question, would ask me for my Bible AND my canteen. Or is this really too strange an idea to conceptualize? Seems like it must be.

What do we need more - an insignificantly larger supply of food, or something that will help people stop fighting, save their energy, and wait for more help to arrive?

An insignificantly larger supply of food (which would hardly be insignificant to the people eating it). People who are not having basic survival needs met will not give a rat's ass about sitting around for Church when they could be looking for some way to save their own life or the lives of the people they love.

If you know anything about ascetics then you know the body can survive for a very long time on very little provided that the mind stays in control.

Not without water. Not while open wounds are infected and bodies lie rotting in the streets, further transmitting disease. Get your head out of your ass, dipshit.

I can attest from personal experience that when you're close to death inner strength is more important than bodily strength.

Close to death from starvation, thirst, injury, and infection in a devastated third world country? I highly doubt it.

"We have 100 people fighting over a small supply of food.

What do we need more - an insignificantly larger supply of food, or something that will help people stop fighting, save their energy, and wait for more help to arrive?"

That is probably the best argument for them that I have heard. I still disagree though. I feel that the people driven to kill for food may not be swayed by religious proclamations.

While I do not "hate" this, I can think of many solar-powered things they need FAR more. Don't regular Bibles work without power too?

If the man with the machete, or the man sleeping in the streets, want Bibles I can't see why you argue with that.

Why does the man have a machete? Because his bible is buried under a ton of rubble, or because his entire country looks like a less-crispy version of Hiroshima and his only supply of water is contaminated with microbes could very well kill him?

Yet you presume he would want a bible more than the satisfaction of any of his basic survival needs. Ever wonder why I think you are delusional?

I'd imagine many people, to answer your question, would ask me for my Bible AND my canteen.

You know, if you didn't bring that bible you could have carried two canteens. The person standing next to the guy who got the canteen won't be too happy about that.

I agree with KANREI---The solar-powered thing seems a bit over the top---On the other hand, I wonder how many ordinary Bibles are printed in Creole?

Lots of Creole Bibles.

"Why does the man have a machete....?"

You never examine your personal biases, though you demand others do ad nauseum.

My single argument is give the people what they think they need, not what you think they need---That you just won't relax and accept such a really natural thing underlines how useless debating with you can be.

"My single argument is give the people what they think they need, not what you think they need---That you just won't relax and accept such a really natural thing underlines how useless debating with you can be."

Your argument id flawed for the following reasons:
1) The large majority of these people had no way of communicating their needs before the earthquake, they have no voice whatsoever now.
2)We don't think they need water, we know that they need water. Without it they WILL die.
3)The timing of these deliveries is absolutely critical. It may not make a huge difference in the overall numbers, but it stands to reason that more food/water=more survivors.
4)This event will continue long after it is dropped by the US media. There will be plenty of time for spiritual reflectance after the people who are in live or die situations get exactly what they need to survive.

#10 | Posted by Bani at 2010-01-20 02:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

F*k.... What's with this word.

It's actually very comical. The shills are so frustrated in the realization how irrelevant they are that they must lower themselves to this childish behavior.

The image of Flanders furiously typing away at his PC comes quickly to mind.

For the love of God, VINCENZ---I people want Bibles just give the things to them. It's as simple as that.

#73 | Posted by Zed

Where are the Gideons for crying out loud? Taking a sabbatical?

Boy are those bible thumpers gonna be pissed when they found out they sent bibles to NEGROS!!!!!!

After all, the bible does say that all black people should be slaves.

I don't get why they are giving these Bibles out as a way to help their plight. Somebody should figure a way to remove the solar cell and battery and make something useful out of it like cell phone chargers.

Communication is much more valuable than hope.

After all, the bible does say that all black people should be slaves.

#93 | Posted by axe

Book chapter and verse please.

Find anything in the bible saying slavery is wrong. There are dozens of passages saying slavery is okay. Right with those oh-so-important verses condemning homosexuality.

The bible is pornography, pure and simple. Any one who takes it literally should be euthanized for the public good.

Not to mention that 90% of the bible was plagiarized chapter and verse from the Sumerians.

Talk to any medical professional and they'll tell you all about how hope enables the body to heal itself.

Talk to any medical professional and they will tell you that without food and water and basic subsistence needs like warmth and a place to sleep that those bibles are nothing but trash to the body. It would do more good to send in some Comedians.

Most of the country is still without food water electricity and basic needs like a safe place to sleep. Seriously you folks are deranged if you think a solar bible or even a paper back one will help other that to provide a nice solar panel or something to burn for warmth at nite.

As for whether the Haitians will take them... Of course they will take them... have you even seen the desperate mobs where the supplies are being handed out? they are grabbing whatever they can get their hands on... they will take ANYTHING ...they are DESPERATE!

God grant me serenity to deal with idiots.

Hope it vital, but it would be better to send them "hope" in the form of food and water so they can believe G-d heard there hopes rather than a book saying "hope is coming."

there=their

Talk to any medical professional and they'll tell you all about how hope enables the body to heal itself.

#54 | Posted by colliferite

I haven't had any hope for a long time and I'm still living. Try getting by a week with no water.

My single argument is give the people what they think they need, not what you think they need

My single argument is, "give the people what will save their lives". It's that fucking simple.

It has nothing to do with Maslow or whatever you think your dogma demands of you. There are certain things without which a human being will die. A bible is not one of them. There is a finite capacity to receive and distribute aid. That should not be wasted on non-essential items. Get it yet?

The answer is simple. Edible Bibles, neopolitan style. Your chocolate for the blacks, vanilla for the whites and strawberry for the gays.

Read 'em and eat, I say.

Is it Bible believers or leftist gun grabbing ideologoy in history that anti-"negro"?

Does this sentence even mean anything? Jesus Fucking Christ, LR, you should at least put some dressing on that word salad. Put down the toluene-soaked gym sock and join the real world.

I doubt you've quite understood that "man does not live by bread alone."

I don't think it's possible to convert the word of god into ATP, buddy...

Well the Swiss certainly kept thier noses out of others business when they were laundering Nazi wealth confiscated from the Jews

That's great news.....they can either EAT the bibles
or pray for food until the clouds part and loaves of bread fall from the sky ... or they die of starvation.

"Your argument is flawed for the following reasons...."

Nah, as you will see---

1) Just because they Haitians can't easily communicate their needs doesn't mean you can substitue your mind-reading.

Earthquake survivors need food, shelter, water, medicine. No one's argued that, and from what I know Christians are doing their best to give them those things.

But for teh very reason Haitians have trouble communicating their needs means the help they receive should err on the side of being broad.

That would be simple logic.

2) How much water does a few hundred Bibles displace? But that's not even my point---You're shipping water by aircraft?

As long as you're attempting to be rational, how about sending some water purifiers (mechanical or chemical) down to Haiti instead of bottles of Ozarka?

WATER, contrary to your assertion, Haitians have in abundance. It's just not potable.

So, if Christians did this, that would be great wouldn't it? And, you know, I'm sure they have thought of this, and that it has been done, and that few Bibles along for the ride just makes the gift that much better.

If you can't see that, then you're another slave to peculiar biases. Man in fact doesn't live by bread alone. That's a simple fact of life and you need to get used to it.

By the way---Edible Bibles---Great idea---Seriously.

"Whatever you think your dogma demands of you...."

My what an unpleasant fellow. If you were brighter that might hurt.

I used to follow Dogma until it crossed the Streetma and got hit by a Karma.

That's right AXE---Let's euthanize a few million people---That'll teach them not to be brutal.

What strnage people.

I'm just parroting the mantra of the 100 Jesus-Free Church. Kill who you don't agree with. It is the Fundie-Christian way.

"I'm just parroting...."

If you want to be some sort of bird, no one can stop you. AXE want a cracker?

Cracker? Is that supposed to be some kind of racist crack?

Haiti's already 96% Christian. They'll be preaching to the choir - who have no churches to sing in anymore.

#19 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Don't you think that's the reason they're doing this in the first place.

So a fairly large group of people who would normally meet together to hear the word of their faith can continue to do so.

I see nothing more nefarious than that going on here.

It's quite obvious that religion is a significant part of the lives of a major part of the Haitian population.

The Sunday after the Quake the churches that were standing were full and others met outdoors.

Perhaps someone should tell these people that the time they spent in church that day receiving some amount of peace and solace from the chaos around them was wasted time they should have been spending on other more important things.

#105 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-01-20 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag: Irrelevance Personified

What good will Bibles do or church attendance or prayers in a country that made a pact with the Devil???

Oh my fucking god.

Yes, solar powered bibles is exactly what they need.

Great! Out of all the misery and death the Christians will preach to them how benevolent their God is.

"Out of all the misery and death Christians will preach to them how great their God is...."

Well, it would largely be preaching from Christians to Christians, if I understand the demographics in Haiti correctly.

I'm sure you have a problem with this but it is, after all, your problem.

those solar powered bibles are the King James version, Haiti Christians are mostly Catholic. Catholics won't use King James version for 3 primary reaons:
1. King James was not authorized by Vatican
2. There are 2 missing books in the King Jmesa translation.
3. the initiator of King James translation was gay. (King James referred to as Queen James during his rule.) Catholics don't like gays.

question: why did Catholics start elementary schools in USA?
hint: use of King James Bible

#123

Very good point. Hadn't thought of that, 80% is Catholic, and 50% practice Haitian Voudou, so you have about 30% who mix them both.

#123

You are correct sir! This makes the sending of the Proclaimers a proselytizing event and nothing more.

I think if I were a Haitian Christian I might be looking for a new God right about now, the old one hasn't treated them too well.

"the old one hasn't treated them too well."

Perhaps they hadn't treated Him well.

"I might be looking for a new God right now..."

Well, it's not the same as little Poochie who piddled on your floor. You can't take God back to the pound when he piddles on your floor.

People tend to define relationships based on what is or is not done for them. You waiter hates you because you always tip just ten-percent. You hate him because you think he's slow. The both of you need new lives.

Man in fact doesn't live by bread alone. That's a simple fact of life and you need to get used to it.

#109 | Posted by Zed

Then they should have shipped some loose women in.

#126 Danni> I think if I were a Haitian Christian I might be looking for a new God right about now, the old one hasn't treated them too well.

Christians are shown in the Bible that becoming a believer is not some kind of 'insurance policy' against the problems and tragedies of the world they live in. In fact, Jesus spoke on many occasions about the problems his followers would face in this world, and the same teaching existed in books written by Paul, Peter and James.

The key is how believers react to the problems, not whether they have any or not.

I think the main problem with this is that if they are not sending food and water along with the Bibles, they are committing something unbiblical themselves.

I am think of the verse that indicated the stupidity behind wishing someone warmed, healthy or properly hydrated with a word while at the same time not doing anything about the present physical condition.

"14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. "
- James 2:14-18.

If they are not sending food and water this these audio atrocities it sounds like they need to crack one open and listen to it themselves.

You can't take God back to the pound when he piddles on your floor.

A concept never pissed on anybody's floor. It takes a believer to do that.

"A concept never pissed on anyone's floor..."

When you cease using wholly imaginary variables to explain observed events perhaps we can talk.

It wasn't too long ago when all acts of nature were considered acts of god, the all time great punisher. So much evil and so little time for the evil god to punish the bad. Just ask Pat Robertson!

The rain dance brought rain.
The storm dance stopped the storm.
Too bad there is no earthquake dance.

As always, prayers did diddly squat!

"It wasn't too long ago when all acts of nature were considered acts of God....?"

My opinion? Advances in physical science will again give us an understanding that is close to this.

God sends the fire and then helps you put it out. Is God then playing table tennis with Himself? And why not?

Advances in physical science will again give us an understanding that is close to this.

All the while confining your god to an ever-shrinking gap...

"All the while confining you God to an ever shrinking gap...."

Hmmmm. What to say about this? I know---In centuries to come almost everything you think you know will be proven to be wrong---But your great, great grandchildren will still go to church.

In centuries to come almost everything you think you know will be proven to be wrong

The process of proving it wrong (or more accurately, incomplete) will allow greater understanding of the universe. Ever heard of the expression "standing on the shoulders of giants"? That's the nature of the process.

But your great, great grandchildren will still go to church.

Science will still be confining the god worshipped in that church to a smaller and smaller gap in human knowledge. No getting around that.

As an aside, you seem awfully certain of the role of Christianity in the future. Since the industrial revolution, Christianity has grown progressively less important and relevant to the West and the nonreligious are growing in numbers. I'm sure it will be around for awhile, but it's river has already crested. If I really want to extrapolate from current trends, though, it is most likely that my distant descendants will find themselves in a mosque. As far as my grandchildren being religious, though, I'm indifferent.

Nice....

One has to wonder how many needed supplies were/will be bumped to make room for something that isnt useful or even wanted.

Hopefully someone on the receiving end will stick that shit in a dark corner and concentrate on sending the important things.

Loh

#134 VMA224> As always, prayers did diddly squat!

Even the secular medical community has acknowledged the power of prayer in healing. Hmmm, guess the folks who have had prayers answered should just ignore their own experience and defer to your "diddly squat" statement?

"You seem awfully certain of the role of Christianity in the future...."

If you knew the first thing about Christianity the answer to why that is true would be glaringly obvious. I expect people to master the glaringly obvious, even though they might not agree with it.

Other important items to send to Haiti in this crucial time when basic, life saving necessities are increasingly scarce:

Some pretty wall paper; it will liven their spirits so they can last until help arrives.
Some nice clothes; everyone feels better when dressed nicely, this too will help them last until help arrives.
Maybe some nice artwork to lift their spirits until help arrives.
Some I-pods; music always makes folks feel better, and could make the wait more enjoyable until help arrives.

But, as with the Bibles, instead of shipping and delivering things to make the wait for help more endurable, just ship the help itself; as much as can be delivered as efficiently and effectively as possible...

Once we get the hemorrhaging wounds of the freshly amputated crushed limbs clotted, the dying infant's dehydration quenched and the starving pregnant women fed you "vultures for Jesus" can go in and pick at what's left of the spiritual carrion. Until then stay the fuck out of the way; we're working here!!!

#140 | Posted by AKat at 2010-01-21 04:14 PM

Bullshit...

Link please...

#141 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-21 04:43 PM

Talk about your "glaringly obvious" self retorting retorts...

If anything is "glaringly obvious" it's the amount of denial most religious people bury their heads beneath just to simply exist...

This must be why you believe that a bible is somehow a necessity of life rivaling: food, water and first aid. However, Haiti, (at least right now), is deluged by "reality" and no amount of feel good fairytales is going to make a dent in that "reality". No more than any amount of "reality" is going to make a dent in your level denial...

"Man does not live by bread alone."

Yes, lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, some fresh meat, adequate hydration, plenty of sleep plus loose shoes, tight pussy and a warm place to shit help too.

"....plus loose shoes, tight pussy and a warm place to shit help too."

Careful, Zat...Butz was condemned to wander the wilderness forever for saying that.

Wandering in the wilderness beats New York City every damned time.

There's a house on a bluff in the Davis Mountains.
I first saw it when I was a boy.
The road is long and narrow.
I still want that house.

I can do a house in the Ryan flat by the Sierra Veijas...

They are collector editions too, and autographed by Pat Robertson, complete with donation cards for the 700 Club.

"donation cards for the 700 Club"

Time: 1973

Place: Houston

Channel: 26

My job: Maintenance supervisor in the largest non-union market in the United States; I run the only TV station transmitter on top of One Shell Plaza and also several of the FM stations. I'm 23.

I'm on the channel 26 studio floor.

Pat's doing a live telethon but the shots of the phone bank are on video tape.

I loaded the 2" tape personally; The phones are actually in Virginia.

Nonetheless Pat gets a "prayer request" from the phone bank. It is a blank piece of typing paper.

Pat does the prayer.

blah heal blah heal blah

A few minutes later, Pat gets a note from the phone bank; Yup it's the exact same piece of blank typing paper.

She's been healed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

There is no AM radio market to counter Limbaugh because the 2% of this country with functioning brains don't pay any attention to popular media.

CAPTAIN OF URANUS---

You get annoyed when people express different values from you, or values in a different order than you have. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could just pass a law? How much simpler the world would be.

These are issues related your personality, nothing more. It's therefore interesting the theme of your post was what's "real".

I'm not sure you understand yourself, much less me, and much less stil what anyone might be thinking and feeling in Haiti. But if you want to have another fit, I won't stop you.

"Man does not live by bread alone..."

Is not my idea. I just agree with it. If you hate the man who said it for saying it, it's no more than He said some would do.

I just love this scene.

"You wanna go pro?"

Zed's still strictly kindergarten.

"Zed's stiil strictly Kindergarten...."

What can I say? I love cookies and milk.

A little Solar Birth Control might help.

This is a very simple issue. When there is a finite ability to transport and distribute supplies in the immediate aftermath of a disaster, essential supplies must take precendence.

A bible is a nonessential item. Only the more mindless apologists have attempted to argue otherwise... and they are entertaining (but miserable) failures at that.

"A Bible is a non-essential item...."

To anyone who doesn't find it essential. That's such an obvious idea I understand why you missed it.

But I suppose if someone in Haiti persisted in finding a Bible essential, you and Captain could wrestle with him till he said uncle.

A bible is a nonessential item
-ZH

To anyone who doesn't find it essential.
-Zed

The Hatians are currently lacking certain things that are required for survival. A bible is not required for survival - hence the "nonessential" bit. Can't drink it, eat it, or treat an infection with it. Things don't get much simpler than that.

How any of the assorted dumbasses on this thread can be so fucking dense as to believe that it a bible is an essential survival item is beyond me. These morons are living proof of why faith run amok is a truly dangerous thing.

#152 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-21 08:39 PM

I couldn't give two shits in a rusty bucket whether your "values" are different than mine, or prioritized differently; when I see stupid I point it out, and to stipulate repeatedly that the people of Haiti need Bibles over food, water, shelter and first aid is really stupid...

And, you are saying Bibles over REAL necessities because real necessities aren't so much in immediate short supply, but rather the system of delivery is broken. So, to pack bullshit (for instance: Bibles) into this fragile and limited delivery system in the place of real necessities so that fundamentalists can flagellate themselves for doing their self proclaimed "work of God", is unconscionable...

You are right on one thing; it is a personality related issue, in that, stupidity really annoys me. And, when stupid people get in the way of people trying to save lives so that they can have a feel-good/Kum-bi-fuckin-yah moment out of harms way, and at the expense of those lives that need saving, I DO take offense...

I don't have to know the minds of Haitians to know that sending Religious propaganda to ground zero of an earthquake when the first responders can't even get food, water and first aid to those that are dying, is -really-fucking-stupid-...

If you can't fathom why it's "really fucking stupid" then maybe it's just a personality related issue...

Or, maybe you're just "really fucking stupid"...

#158 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-21 09:14 PM

Well, using that logic we should be sending boatloads of LCD TVs, sham-wows and other nonessentials in place of real aid too, as I'm sure there are people who would take them; finding them "essential"...

Put it this way Zed, if there are people in Haiti, at this juncture, who have the luxury to consider a Bible a necessity, they should be helping, not taking a frigin handout...

sham-wows and other nonessentials in place of real aid

Watch as Oxy-clean gets rid of these deep dirt stains ground into the clothes of Hatian refugees... But wait, there's more... order one solar powered bible in the next twenty minutes and get another absolutely free. Just pay separate shipping and handling.

"I couldn't give two shits in rusty bucket your values are different from mine...."

And yet you burn paragraph after paragraph describing those differences, arguing yours are better. If you point out stupid when you see it, I can suggest a place closer to home to look.

"When stupid people get in the way of saving lives...."

Yes, that annoys me, too. When you can demonstrate concretely getting a Bible has done that, maybe we can talk. If not, then what we have is a case of your personal fantasy regarding reality fueling a hissy-fit for no reason.

Using as little effort as you've put into this, I can fantasize Bibles have saved lives in Haiti. You can chew the furniture, or you can prove me wrong.

"Or maybe you're just fucking stupid...."

Hey, man....That protrusion in you eye....I think it's a plank of wood or something. Your speech teacher in high school thanked heaven you were never a debater.

"Can't eat it, drink it, or treat infection with it..."

You forgot that you can't have sex with a Bible, either. At least, not easily. Yes, I can understand why you don't see the book as being useful.

#163 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-22 08:30 AM
***"And yet you burn paragraph after paragraph describing those differences, arguing yours are better. If you point out stupid when you see it, I can suggest a place closer to home to look"

The difference between your opinion and mine is that yours makes absolutely no sense, and mine does. This fact has been proven by this discussion. I have repeatedly made coherent arguments to back up every premise I have forwarded, while you have just continued your mantra like recital of your opinion backed up with nothing. You saying something once doesn't make it true. And, repeating that same point, with absolutely no logical argument, doesn't make it any truer. It does, however, serve to demonstrate the shallow nature of your argument and the point of view from whence it spawns...

And, I don't need you to guide me to "stupid"; however I agree that you would be an ideal candidate for the job. I would rather you just try to develop some form of relevant and coherent argument for the opinion you keep chanting; something more concrete than "I'm right and your wrong"...

#164 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-22 08:36 AM | Reply
***"Yes, that annoys me, too. When you can demonstrate concretely getting a Bible has done that, maybe we can talk. If not, then what we have is a case of your personal fantasy regarding reality fueling a hissy-fit for no reason."

"Demonstrate concretely"? One doesn't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist to put two and two together:

THE BOTTLE NECK IN THE HAITIAN RELIEF EFFORT IS DISTRIBUTION, THUS ADDING NONESSENTIAL/NON LIFE SAVING ITEMS TO BE "DELIVERED" WILL REDUCE THE ABILITY OF THOSE RELIEF AGENCIES TO DELIVER THE ACTUAL LIFE SAVING AID THAT IS NEEDED, THEREFORE REALISTICALLY REDUCING THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THOSE LIFE SAVING EFFORTS, THEREBY REDUCING THE NUMBER OF LIVES SAVED TO PROVIDE READING MATERIAL FOR THOSE THAT DON'T REALLY NEED HELP. BECAUSE, ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU ARE IN HAITI RIGHT NOW AND REGARD A BIBLE AS A "NECESSITY" THEN YOU NEED TO BE HELPING, NOT TAKING A HANDOUT.

If you have an argument for the above please post it, as opposed to repeating your same statement with nothing to back it up.

***"Using as little effort as you've put into this, I can fantasize Bibles have saved lives in Haiti. You can chew the furniture, or you can prove me wrong"

Yes, I bet you can fantasize about that, but actually creating a coherent argument to back it up is another thing entirely.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2010-01-22 08:39 AM

***"Hey, man....That protrusion in you eye....I think it's a plank of wood or something. Your speech teacher in high school thanked heaven you were never a debater."

Please point out where my logic is flawed, as opposed to just saying it is so...

And, my debate skills aren't in question as you have failed to actually "debate". Just repeating your opinion isn't "debate", it is "proclaiming". Anyone can "proclaim", but until you back it up it's just more "bullshit"...