has been paid to do nothing for more than seven years be dismissed within two weeks.

GOOD. No wonder California had budget problems.

I'm not in accord with paying anyone to do nothing. I do believe that all teachers (hell, all employees anywhere) who are accused of something that could lead to a firing need to receive timely investigations and be accorded all proper rights. Just as in the justice system, "innocent until proven guilty" should hold sway.

So my question is, How do we (how does a district) ensure timely investigations? Seems to me one problem is the size of schools and bureaucracies.

Change we can believe in!

Are you suggesting that Obama played a role in a Los Angeles school district matter that began in 2003? The dude gets around!

sounds a lot like the auto union as was mentioned this morning on daily show

something about how they get 90% of income while being laid off.......and its not retirement we are talking about..

so here is the question.l.

LA have teacher unions??
of course...and SO does texas but they have NEVER called for a strike...........

Don't you just love socalism?

ah snipe...is that a little sarcasim that I read into that post??????

Socalism? Well, the story is about events in California... Unions are de facto socialism? Hm. You mean holding employers to standards is the same as allowing workers to own the means of production? I feel so educated this afternoon...

Again, I think that the problem is not with unions but with bureaucracy. If the incidents were investigated in a timely fashion, if protocols were followed and evidence provided, I doubt the union would get in the way of a justified firing. We protect employees from whimsical firings--by future of protecting _the contract_.

But you know, most anti-union people I've encountered don't want to think about purpose--they want a sound bite or quick shot to affirm their bias. (And yes, you've probably seen similar behaviors from people on the other side of your arguments, but I always ask these questions, and almost never does anyone, especially here, take up the issues.)

Afk, how do strikes fit into this story? In Texas, can public employees strike? They can't in NH, but they can in VT. These are state laws, under which employees and employers alike have to operate.

Socalism? Well, the story is about events in California... Unions are de facto socialism? Hm. You mean holding employers to standards is the same as allowing workers to own the means of production? I feel so educated this afternoon...

#7 | Posted by pragmatist

I have no idea what you just said but........ paying someone for 7 years with tax money for just sitting on his ass IS socalism.

another fine example of libtardism at its best.

Teachers in Texas do not have unions. They have employee organizations that take up their cause. But, unless Houston is an exception, there are no teacher unions in the state of Texas and that is why they don't strike. It's not because Texas teachers have some superior patriotic gene or altruistic tendency that LA teachers don't possess.

Teachers in Texas do not have unions. They have employee organizations that take up their cause.

Not being a smart ass or trying to start something, but isn't that technically a union?

let's, too, give more tax breaks to corporations since they already have 2/3 of 'em not paying any taxes & that's now the American way!

That one really touches my breasts...

"I have no idea what you just said but........ paying someone for 7 years with tax money for just sitting on his ass IS socalism."

Spelling, Sniper. There's an I in socialism (well, two). I was making a (poor) joke. So Cal-->socalism.

And I disagree--paying someone to sit on his ass for 7 years is stupid and incompetent. Please look at my earlier critique if you want a serious discussion. Shouting "socialism" is just a trigger--full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

++++

I too don't understand the difference between a union and an "employee organization."

"paying someone for 7 years with tax money for just sitting on his ass IS socalism."

No, it's not. Try educating yourself on the definition of the word.

"paying someone for 7 years with tax money for just sitting on his ass IS socalism."

So this guy is a socialist?

"Are you suggesting that Obama played a role in a Los Angeles school district matter that began in 2003? The dude gets around!

#3 | Posted by rcade"

Actually, I was referring to the change in this loser's status. I don't think anyone should get paid for doing nothing, and that these "investigations" should never go longer than a year. I've known of cases much like this (teachers and improper conduct) that took a couple of months to resolve. But I do like a nice turn of phrase.

Not being a smart ass or trying to start something, but isn't that technically a union?

They are pretty close in practice but, there is no collective bargaining. If a group of teachers wants to strike or not work for a particular cause, the local district would just hire one of the thousands of teachers currently looking for a job.

Texas is a "right-to-work" state with very weak unions.

"but isn't that technically a union?

#11 | Posted by kanrei"

Only if they negotiate their contracts under binding arbitration. Or something like that.

Thanks for explaining that. Florida is also a right to work state, but we still have unions in some fields and allow no collective bargaining otherwise, so I don't think a group like that would float here.

Tell you what. If you are truly anti-socialism in every form then remember: The next time your house is burning or you need police assistance, or an ambulance, don't call 911 because that is a social service and you'd just be justifying the continued existence of socialism in this country. Oh, while your at it: don't drive on the roads (road building and maintenance is a social service), don't visit the public library (paid for with socialist money), don't go to the courts for anything, don't pull over when the cops are on your tail, don't pay traffic fines (when you do that you are just contributing more to socialist programs). Don't pay anymore taxes of any kind (more contributions to socialism you can avoid), etc. etc. Its easy, if you fear solialism so much you'd better up sticks and move to some 3rd world undeveloped county with absolutly NO government programs, that is the ONLY way to avoid all solcialism.

"I don't think anyone should get paid for doing nothing, and that these "investigations" should never go longer than a year. I've known of cases much like this (teachers and improper conduct) that took a couple of months to resolve."

Agreed, and agreed.

+++++

"Texas is a "right-to-work" state with very weak unions."

Urk. They should be called "employer's right to fire you on a whim" states.

+++++

Something like that, #18. Or not. When is an employee organization not a union? What does it do?

"#20 | Posted by boyracer_x at 2010-01-13 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Never takes long for them to take the ole Socialist bait ;)

""Texas is a "right-to-work" state with very weak unions."

Urk. They should be called "employer's right to fire you on a whim" states. "

Or... You mean I can work here without being part of the mafia?

Something like that, #18. Or not. When is an employee organization not a union? What does it do?

The employee organizations I am familiar with and the context in which I am using the term is in the education field. In our local district, there are about four or five teacher organizations. One of the organizations has the lion's share of teachers signed up with them. They carry a lot of clout but, they do not have the right to negotiate salaries or organize strikes. They handle situations such as wrongful termination appeals or paperwork reduction issues. They serve a purpose for sure, but, I sure wouldn't want them to be able to wield any more power or influence

"
"#20 | Posted by boyracer_x at 2010-01-13 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Never takes long for them to take the ole Socialist bait ;)

#22 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD at 2010-01-13 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e"

Not taking the bait, just SO sick and tired of hearing that word misused and tossed around like the great evil it isn't that I had to vent and straighten the record out yet again.

Unfortunately, this kind of thing is not that rare. This may have to do with a teacher's union. What happens frequently in my neck of the woods is pipeliner's go off to work a job for 6-8 months making big bucks. When they get tired of working and want to come hame for a while, they file a greivance with the union at which point they come home and sit on their asses at full pay for 6-8 months. When they decide to go back to work, they drop the greivance and go back to work. This scam is no secret and has been going on for generations because everybody knows you can't touch the union.

Tell you what. If you are truly anti-socialism in every form then remember: The next time your house is burning or you need police assistance, or an ambulance, don't call 911 because that is a social service and you'd just be justifying the continued existence of socialism in this country.

#20 | Posted by boyracer_x

Tell you what. If I pay for a service it is not socalism. My taxes pay for police and fire protection. The protection services I pay taxes for and use are far from socalism. For someone to never pay taxes and use the services does aproach socalism.

Taking money for doing nothing except breathing is about as far from capatalism as you can get. Call it what you want. I guess we could call it being a leach if that suits you.

For someone to never pay taxes and use the services does aproach socalism.

And who never pays taxes?

And who never pays taxes?

Posted by 726 at 2010-01-13 02:59 PM

People in the Government?

"I guess we could call it being a leach if that suits you."

Works for me. It's not socialism. Under socialism, workers are indeed supposed to work.

+++++

"This scam is no secret and has been going on for generations because everybody knows you can't touch the union."

Why not? Take them to task, dammit. Again, unions don't exist to allow workers to slack off. They exist to protect workers' rights. Again, if anyone has problems with the unions, take it to your congresspersons. Act to enact laws that change the power structure. Whine, whine, whine. Oh, and please understand what unions actually do before mouthing off. (I'm not exactly aiming that at Bogey. You weren't quite mouthing off, sir.)

#29 - FF!

Before unions the standard work week was dawn until dusk, every day but Sunday.

It is still almost that way for some exempt (salaried) workers who are not executives.

I used to be one.

It is still almost that way for some exempt (salaried) workers who are not executives.

If I am not at work, I am "on call," 24/7. Since I work at a sleep lab, I have no time that my office is closed and must be available anytime.

I have no idea what you just said but........ paying someone for 7 years with tax money for just sitting on his ass IS socalism.

#8 | Posted by Sniper

What he is saying is that you are a dumbass, perhaps because this is not a good example of socialism.

mon........ each acording to his ability and each acording to his need. Where did that statement come from? Damn, maybe I just now made that one up.

Must have been a Dem. If he were a Republican he would have been fired on the spot

it's not too bad. how long did the babbler collect a check?

He'll just relocate to another district. Most of them do at some point.

Like doctors?

"mon........ each acording to his ability and each acording to his need. Where did that statement come from? Damn, maybe I just now made that one up."

Sniper, are you trying to say that means that in such a system, that means some will be allowed (encouraged?) to sit on their asses and not contribute? When I studied political science in college, I never got that idea from any readings of socialism, marxism, or communism. Nor have I gotten such an idea since, except as put forth by critics of such systems. Also, my father, a man much wiser and more knowledgeable than I, has pointed out that this idea did not begin with Marx but belongs to Scripture and to earlier (pre-Christian) mythologies as well.

For what it's worth.

If I misread your point, please correct me. Pure-text communication is fundamentally flawed.

Seven years!!!?? Did they take a page from the Democrat Ethics Cmmittee investigating Rangel, Dodd, Jefferson--oh, my bad, Jefferson's case is closed since he went to prison before his case could be heard in the House....

Had enough in California yet? Just can't wait for my tax money to go towards bailing those clowns out cause they're broke.

Has anybody had enough yet?

The point is, they fired him. Change. Reading is fundamentla, slumpkin. Nice try for the Democrat diversion, tho. Oh, and since Florida is frozen, we'll be happy to sell you oranges...at 5 bucks a piece. Asshole.

He has probably done less harm than a lot of people with teaching certificates.

In any state but California it is a criminal justice issue, not incompetence, when a teacher touches breasts, fondles and harasses students and teachers. These are criminal acts and he should have been put on trial and if found guilty jailed for these acts.

Sure, any state but California. Do they change your diapers for you, too?

I feel so educated this afternoon...

LOL sniper's contributions to this thread are comedic gold.

He makes someone with a GED feel educated.

I do like a nice turn of phrase.

#16 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-01-13 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, a nice, clever and creative turn of phrase. Maybe even something as brilliant as ....

Neither do you, dumbfuck. STFU.

Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-01-13 09:54 PM | Reply

Reading is fundamentla,

#42 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-01-13 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

it writes itself!

And who never pays taxes?

#28 | Posted by 726

WHO? 40% of Americans pay no federal income tax. Many get refunds on the money they don't pay in.

He makes someone with a GED feel educated.

#47 | Posted by jpw

I'm glad you feel educated now.

Educate me now and tell me what you call paying someone full pay for 7 years for doing nothing. I realy would like to know what to call it.

"WHO? 40% of Americans pay no federal income tax. "

That wasn't your first contention. You never specified income tax until called on it. Most workers pay more in federal excise and payroll taxes over their lifetimes than income tax.

dan what are the payroll taxes?

At one time, the witholding tax called social security was to go into a trust fund for the person that payed it. It wasn't a tax, it was a retirement supplement fund. I guess it still is but it isn't a trust fund anymore. The other witholding tax is mdeicare which is an insurance fund for the people that are in it. It is not a tax either.

Come onnnnnn. Someone tell me what you call getting paid for 7 years and not working.

Sniper, I gave you leech or leeching. That's what it is. It is not socialism by any definition or practice I've ever seen. It might be called middle management, though. : ) (And yes, there are union situations that invent sitting on your ass, but that's not usually teaching unions. The only time I've seen that come up in teaching situations is when someone is being investigated and the investigation is taking too long.) And in this specific situation, it's wrong. Whether the person did it or not, he should not get paid for doing nothing. The investigation should happen, then he should go back to work or be removed, depending on the outcome. And that's what a good union should do: protect workers from indiscriminate, unfounded firings. (Well, and negotiate contracts, but that's a whole new argument.)

"At one time, the witholding tax called social security was to go into a trust fund for the person that payed it."

You're full of shit. It was NEVER intended for an individual account. In fact, if you read the laws, you'll see the government isn't even under any obligation to pay out Social Security.

"The other witholding tax is mdeicare which is an insurance fund for the people that are in it. It is not a tax either."

So the Medicare tax isn't a tax?

You're a real piece of work. Medicare doesn't go into an "insurance fund", it's a tax that goes into the general fund, and the general fund pays out the claims and then some.

perfect appointment material for Obama Admin!