lol.

I enlarged the photo and was like "wtf, this doesn't show anything about the US"

then I was like "oh. damn."

Best health care system in the world.

Thanks to pharm shills?

Thanks to pharm shills?

#4 | Posted by Bani at 2010-01-07 11:02 AM

Well, we're certainly NOT getting our moneys worth, are we.

OCU

Here's one major reason why imho.

Pharma shills
Medical Mind Control

"Indeed the modern physician now only represents an extension of these (medical) industries into the public."--Carl Reich, M.D.

Is the word from Heritage and Cato "think" tanks that the rigid right will continue to champion corporate HMOs and private practice MDs, but henceforth throw the big drugmakers under the bus? herm

#1 | Posted by Bani

This graph says it all. I can't imagine how anyone can still argue that we don't need significant reform.

I can't imagine how anyone can still argue that we don't need significant reform.

Perhaps other methods of reform should be considered before a total hijacking by the fed.

we don't need significant reform

----

And part of the reform is us as patients.

Perhaps other methods of reform should be considered before a total hijacking by the fed.

#10 | Posted by goatman

I see no reason why we shouldn't start using what works first. Since it's already apparent that what some of these other countries have is better, why don't we implement the best of what they're doing and try to improve on it from there?

And part of the reform is us as patients.

#11 | Posted by Pirate

Are "us as patients" going to change without incentive? We certainly haven't yet.

why don't we implement the best of what they're doing and try to improve on it from there?

Okay. Fine. How are you going to pay for it?

That's the million dollar question. Everyone keeps saying that we don't need to raise taxes to pay for it, which is bull shit.

I'd say a $3000.00 cut in average medical spending, per person per year, is a hell of a start.

I'd say a $3000.00 cut in average medical spending, per person per year, is a hell of a start.

And you take that as gospel on blind faith? LOL Have you ever a government project (nevermind one that hijacks a 1/6 of the nation's economy) that doesn't cost more than the proposal? Why do you think this one will be different?

Why do you think this one will be different?

#15 | Posted by goatman

I don't think that it's going to be different. I don't think this country is ever going to fix its troubles, at least not in my lifetime, no matter who's in power. The divisiveness is too embedded. I guess I'm simply wishing for what could have happened with a government that actually works together towards practical solutions.

The trouble is that we're going to get stuck with what congress/senate has come up with because the seeds of discontent were planted forcefully by the loud obstructionists who were determined to stop any reform such as their ideological opposition might produce.

I think we might have gotten better reform out of our politicos if they hadn't been so determined to carry on with divisive partisanship, or to try and protect their jobs.

We're screwed.

I second GOATMAN- just how many here actually believe it will cost less and care will be better.

WHENEVER you hear 'we are the government are we are here to help you' bend over and grab your ankles. It was true when I first heard that in the late 60s and only the ignorant believe is it not true now.

I cannot wait to hear the groans and moans here in 5-6 years if they manage to pass this supposed 'health care' bill.

(nevermind one that hijacks a 1/6 of the nation's economy)

But to continue with speculation, if we could adopt a system similar to the others, healthcare costs could be reduced to 1/10 of the economy, which could help the economy enormously because those revenues would be freed up for use in other business.

WHENEVER you hear 'we are the government are we are here to help you' bend over and grab your ankles.

#17 | Posted by MSgt

Then we need to fix the government. We need to quit electing these divisive bastards who only run for election for their own gain, by convincing us that their ideology is similar to ours. And quit listen to the punditry that would like to keep us divided, again to only their advantage. We need to start trying to elect people that at least seem committed to working together towards practical solutions that work for all of us in this country, regardless of their ideology. That's the only way these problems are ever going to be solved.

As I've posted here before, the party of Fail will pay big in 2010 for their sabotage of health care reform. Just wait until the ads start running with images of little gravestones of 3 and 4 year olds that died from lack of insurance or denial of necessary procedures by health insurance companies.

You'll see ads where long lists of peoples name are read in a voice over while the screen shows GOPIGGIE candidates bragging about how the delayed a certain vote or successfully put in an ammendment to weaken the plan. People who have lost their homes will explain in detail how they lost everything when the insurance companies denied coverage or they weren't able to buy insurance because of preexisting conditions.

The cockgobblers that screwed the American people are going to pay big time and a lot of us are going to dig deep to finance these ads.

Payback is a bitch.

Something a majority of repubs voted for, and something that had the dems not shilled for big pharm would have been part of the Senate bill.

#5 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-01-07 03:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

The repubs asked for a lot of stuff in the Bill only to vote against the very stuff they asked for so people like you will think they really wanted the re-importation of drugs.

Don't believe me? Why didn't they make it happen in the 6 yeas they held the House, Senate and WH?

Seems to me that they didn't even want the govt to use it's buying power to reduce the costs of meds.

Japan pays $2581 per person has a higher rate of overall coverage and a life expectancy of almost 84 years.

The US pays $7290 per person with millions left uninsured or underinsured and a life expectancy of around 78 years.

Ouchie.

K, so obviously the system is sick.

That aint the question.

Better questions?

Will the new healthcare reforms do more harm than good?

Will they lower and control costs in the long term?

Will those millions more people able to get insurance eventually be joined by those who are still left out in the cold?

Will the corporate concessions granted thus far erode too much of the possible positive impact?

Guess we gotta stay tuned in and keep paying attention.

Nice chart, Bani.

Good eye.

Be Well.

I think we need to look at how we are raising money. Insurance never made sense to me. How someone could pay a $100 a month payment and get in some cases millions of dollars in benefits escapes me. And you know someone who is paying 100 dollars a month expects to be paying that the rest of their lives and still get high quality health care even when they are using it the most. It doesnt make sense. It all comes down to who will pay for those who choose to not pay. I certainly dont want to..

So does the annual health care bill include elective procedures like tummy tucks, implants, nose jobs, Lasik etc. Bottom line we Americans see a doctor often not because we have to but because we want to. With more government involvement, the health care costs will go up, not down. The impact will be that we all pay more and collectively, we will all get less.

But as usual, most liberal responses are, "Hey, lets get everyone to pay for everyone"! But the thing that gets in the way of liberals is, our country just wasnt designed that way. The U.S. wasnt designed as a socialists nation. Which is why they are always trying to change the constitution, to fit socialism...

Lifestyles do have an impact on the life expectancies in these countries and to say otherwise is self delusion. The graph is really meaningless as it does not compare survival by age bracket, (sorry I cannot site one at this time), you will find that America lags behind in the 12-25 age bracket and yes, this is directly related to the life choices in the urban culture.

As far as good doctors go, America has some of the best hands down (though other countries also have great doctors) but the problem in many areas, like my current residence in Illinois is the insane tort laws, we lose so many good doctors that with all the required insurance, the profession is highly underpaid, many leave the state and many are becoming dentists (huge money in cosmetic dentistry and virtually no risk). The proposed health care "overhaul" does not address any of these issues and my guess is that we are much more likely to lose than to gain doctors (then yes Virginia, there will be so called "death panels" as medical care will have to be rationed). The best things we can do at this point are to change tort laws, allow interstate purchase of medical policies, allow ala cart selection and make high deductable plans with HSA's more readily available, but you know this will never happen as it takes power and influence away from the government and puts it back into the hands of consumers, but what have we got to losethese solutions would cost you NOTHING.

People are responsible for their own healthcare and it starts by the lifestyle you choose, and I will choose not to support unhealthy lifestyles as I do not expect anyone to support mine.

Whenever you compare government run to industry run, you have to be careful. In the US, the health care industry builds hospitals and amortizes the cost of those hospitals over time. Is the cost of building hospitals included in the costs of the Canadian, British or Swedish health care system or is that a capital cost buried in the national budget somewhere.

When is the last time a major government agency was successfully audited?

Is it profiteering that drives US Health Insurance costs or is it things health care companies do. Compare all the executive salaries of private industry with the cost of running HHS, VA, DoD, Medicare etc etc. I am all for health care reform, but the end result should be lower costs, immediately.

"The U.S. wasnt designed as a socialists nation."

It wasn't designed as a capitalist nation either, no economic system is mentioned in the Constitution.
There is nothing inherently unconstitutional about socialized medicine, as Medicare clearly demonstrates, though the corporations who own the media and the health care system would try to tell you it is....because they are profiting hugely from the idiotic system we have today.
We will never get real reform until Congress is not owned and operated by corporate lobbyists.

"Is the cost of building hospitals included in the costs of the Canadian, British or Swedish health care system or is that a capital cost buried in the national budget somewhere."

If you are trying to make that argument then provide some links to prove it, otherwise I will assume that those who estimate the relative costs of health care in the different countries are including all the appropriate costs to make the comparisons valid. If you can provide proof of a reason to doubt them then do so, otherwise that is just a meaningless talking point.

It wasn't designed as a capitalist nation either, no economic system is mentioned in the Constitution

But we know it really wasnt designed to be socialist either. It was designed for everyone to pay for themselves and to be able to take care of themselves. That is indisputable. The problem is, there are people in our society that cant take care of themselves, whether by life choices or other means. Who takes care of those people? That is the problem. I think the states should. But of course, most of the time, the money runs out and where do people look when there is no money? To the fed unending govt. It's wrong. And it will fail. Because it will cost sooo much to take care of those who arent carrying their load, that those who are doing the right thing will get tired of taking care of those who dont care...It's simple really...

" And it will fail."

The present system is failing miserably and bringing us closer to national bankruptcy.
Also, if a more socialized system is guaranteed to fail then why is it working so successfully in most other modern industrialized countries??

So everyone gets to pay thru the ass just so greedfucks like Boazzzzz gets to feel good.

Never mind the little cock gobbler is paying for all those 'lazy assholes' every time they show up at an emergency room.

Here is a clue for you, dumbfuck: THE SYSTEM IS BROKE!!! You are brainwashed by Clusterfox to think exactly what the insurance companies and big Pharma want you to.

Either that or you are a partisan assmunch and only care about getting Rtards back in power so they can complete their war against the middle class.

Why to Rtards hate America?

Call it a conspiracy theory, but there is nothing in this bill to reduce the cost of medical INSURANCE. The end game of the progressive is a single payor (Medicare Part E if you will) and to that end, if you make the corporate apparatus currently providing insurance to be bruised and bloodied to the point (as Pelosi stated) "they'll be begging for a public option".

"bruised and bloodied" = forced to end "pre-existing condition, rescission, other practices that make insurance unavailable for may people.
It comes down to a question of who the system should work for, the citizens of America or the insurance companies.

No, bruised and bloodied is the stuff they are not telling you on MSLSD:
1. Regulated MLR (in concert with new administrative costs)
2. Mandated coverages
3. Advanced Community Rating
4. Weak coverage mandates

Pre-ex and recission are nothing in the big picture, ins. co's can absorb that and it won't affect the bottom line - they'll just charge you more (PS... recission is still allowed in cases of non-payment and fraud ie. no change from status quo). Why do you think AHIP agreed to those at the outset?

I second GOATMAN- just how many here actually believe it will cost less and care will be better.
WHENEVER you hear 'we are the government are we are here to help you' bend over and grab your ankles. It was true when I first heard that in the late 60s and only the ignorant believe is it not true now.
I cannot wait to hear the groans and moans here in 5-6 years if they manage to pass this supposed 'health care' bill.

#17 | POSTED BY MSGT

Thats the plan.. Due to fear or mistrust continue to do nothing and hope it works out. The mantra of the obstructionist.

National Geographic, Just go back to taking pictures of naked women in Africa

So everyone gets to pay thru the ass just so greedfucks like Boazzzzz gets to feel good.
Never mind the little cock gobbler is paying for all those 'lazy assholes' every time they show up at an emergency room.
Here is a clue for you, dumbfuck: THE SYSTEM IS BROKE!!! You are brainwashed by Clusterfox to think exactly what the insurance companies and big Pharma want you to.
Either that or you are a partisan assmunch and only care about getting Rtards back in power so they can complete their war against the middle class.
Why to Rtards hate America?

#32 | POSTED BY AXE

its sickening to watch and the the masses wrath will be felt one day.

Legio gets sarcastic, "Thats the plan.. Due to fear or mistrust continue to do nothing and hope it works out. The mantra of the obstructionist."

You should know, after 8 years of seeing you anti-patriot-for-votes sign waving bums doing nothing to help the war against the actual enemy of the USA "we" all were fighting (even Canadians) ...

You obstructionists certainly can project your fault onto your true enemy ... not terrorism ... but fellow Americans who may be rightwing conservatives!

You spinning liars are dizzy, of that there is no doubt ...

.......... the masses wrath will be felt one day.

#38 | Posted by Legio

oh no.... their going to set fire to their own homes and cities again....oh the horror.

Personally I've never understood how a multi-billion dollar profit making entity between the provider and recipient of health care is an example of a free market. It seems most posters believe that government is inherently incompetent and bad and business is inherently altruistic.
Inherently it is not the government which is at fault, but the groups funding the government which are corporate lobbyists. The government, just like any other purchase, is owned by the payer.
How likely are you going to be able to go to lunch with your Senator? How likely is Larry the Lobbyist?
The current bill is not healthcare reform as intended, it is simply minor health insurance reform which will ultimately benefit only the healthcare and insurance industry.

"To get what you want, STOP doing what isn't working."
--Earl Warren

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - 2006)

#41 | Posted by kingcuke

Two of the great Progressives that gave us the world we live in today.

This chart is a load of crack. It needs to show healthcare costs per capita as a percentage of income per capita. Like this one does.
United States: 18%
Greece: 17%
Australia: 16%
Portugal: 16%
New Zealand: 16%
Iceland: 16%
Luxembourg: 16%
Austria: 15%
Norway: 15%
France: 15%
Slovakia: 15%
Switzerland: 15%
Germany: 15%
Slovenia: 15%
Ireland: 15%
Canada: 15%
Lebanon: 15%
Czech Republic: 15%
Netherlands: 14%
Belgium: 14%
South Africa: 14%
Sweden: 14%
Marshall Islands: 14%
Russia: 14%
Malta: 14%
Turkey: 14%
Spain: 14%
Italy: 13%
Jordan: 13%
Denmark: 13%
Ukraine: 12%
United Kingdom: 12%
Finland: 11%
Poland: 10%
Israel: 9%
Mexico: 8%
China: 8%
Japan: 8%
Vietnam: 8%
India: 7%
Peru: 6%
Saudi Arabia: 5%
Thailand: 5%
Singapore: 5%
Trinidad and Tobago: 5%
United Arab Emirates: 4%
Pakistan: 4%

Gav,

Can you post a source for us (not disagreeing with you, looks like something I'd like to read more on)

he said moron....

And part of the reform is us as patients.

Yes stop getting sick and all our problems will be solved.

Or just pay cash like the billionaires do.

This chart is a load of crack

So you are disagreeing that average health care spending in the US is $7,300?

It seems most posters believe that government is inherently incompetent and bad and business is inherently altruistic.

That fails me as well.

Business is inherently criminogenic due to the desire to increase profits. Why else do they hire illegal immigrants, dump toxic waste, etc?

The repubs asked for a lot of stuff in the Bill only to vote against the very stuff they asked for so people like you will think they really wanted the re-importation of drugs.

Don't believe me? Why didn't they make it happen in the 6 yeas they held the House, Senate and WH?

Seems to me that they didn't even want the govt to use it's buying power to reduce the costs of meds.

#21 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2010-01-08 02:41 AM

That would be part of the bill that passed if only Senate Democrats supported it. They only needed something like 2/3 of the Senate Democrats, since so many Republicans voted for it. The Obama admin opposed it too. But you're not interested in that, are you?

I see no reason why we shouldn't start using what works first. Since it's already apparent that what some of these other countries have is better, why don't we implement the best of what they're doing and try to improve on it from there?

#12 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2010-01-07 10:42 PM

This graph says it all. I can't imagine how anyone can still argue that we don't need significant reform.

#9 | Posted by Whatsleft

The graph tells you nothing. There is a lot more to the length of someone's life than healthcare.

You ass-ume that all countries keep death records the same.

You ass-ume that all countries keep track of healthcare costs the same way.

You ass-ume all countries have the same life styles.

You ass-ume all countries have the same care accidents and gang problems.

You ass-ume way too much.

# 46 "So you are disagreeing that average health care spending in the US is $7,300?"

No, I'm disputing the relevance of $7,300. The income levels of each country aren't the same so you can't compare dollar for dollar values. This also doesn't even touch the topic of cost of living.

Here's the source. I did the number crunching in excel, you can do it easily.

Take the country's "dollars per capita" number you want from this list :

"To get what you want, STOP doing what isn't working."
--Earl Warren

No shit, get rid of all of the assholes in Washington, cause it aint workin'

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - 2006)

And this is bad? How? Everybody screams about obscene profits, but wail when the value of your 401k goes down, you shake your fist at the pharma industry but demand drug cures for everything (not that a little personal resposibility couldn't go much farther). This is your selfishness, demanding government take care of everything, I have to be personally selfish just to fund my tax bill every year to pay for others who choose not to (including that asshole Gunthier). Fuck you, did you work full time and put yourself through school and get a degree that will actually provide a decent income? Are you living within your means?

You are not my problem so stay out of my life and wallet

Get smart, vote Libertarian.

iro, don't hold back, tell us how you realy feel.

I'm with you on just about everything you said. Take charge of your own life and quit leaching off of the producers.

god I need a beer Sniper.

"Fuck you, did you work full time and put yourself through school and get a degree that will actually provide a decent income? Are you living within your means?"

Yes on both accounts but I still don't pretend that everyone has the same abilities, opportunities, etc. I'm still don't want health care costs to continue rising much faster than inflation. I still don't want millions who unfortunately lose their jobs through no fault of their own to go without health care. I'm still not a selfish jerk who thinks as long as I got mine then fuck everyone else.

#55 Danni

"America is just lazy. Nothing more."

Sorry, but there are millions of stupid people who are virtually incapable of providing all their needs.

Sorry, but there are millions of stupid people who are virtually incapable of providing all their needs.

But a good percent seem to think big TVs and nice cars count as needs.

Yes on both accounts but I still don't pretend that everyone has the same abilities,

#55 | Posted by danni

You are right there. We need CEOs, accountants, engineers, garbage collectors, and ditch diggers. We also need to do some manufecturing here in the USA. We need assembly line workers just as much as we need people changing our sheets in the hotels we stay in.

#55 Danni

Please tell me your worshipfullness, just how much do I "owe" the less fortunate and since it is my money (the government has no money) why can't I insist that it be spent wisely, instead of like the stimulas money given out last year (no I didn't get any, I made to much) that went to cell phones, flat screens, and stupid car rims?

You want to help the less fortunate, you go ahead and give them money, I help the less fortunate by giving them jobs (the ones that will work anyway), what they do with their earned money is their business, just like you or I.

"We also need to do some manufecturing here in the USA." -sniper

and, where does the government get the money to pay all thoes leaches?

I'll tell you where. They take it from productive people at the point of a gun. How soon will there be more leaches than thoes giving blood?

Can anyone show me a country where everyone works for the government?

#57 | POSTED BY DANNI
Sorry, but there are millions of stupid people who are virtually incapable of providing all their needs."

Any documentation to back that theory up? How stupid do you have to be before the government needs to sweep in and take of your every need and want? And who are the "doctors" that are going to pronounce an individual "unfit to work based on stupidity"? LOL!!

We're not talking about the extreme minority of the population who, due to physical conditions, provide for themselves. We're talking about providing healthcare for over 10% (reportedly) of America's population. Which, btw, in all probability most either choose not to have health care, are between jobs, illegal, or living beyond their means. I don't mind helping those truly in need of care, but I will pay $0 and oppose every legislation that tries to support that bunch.

*take care

#57 Danni

Stupid is as stupid does, I really think it is "cross generational motivational meltdown" (oooh, sounds like a good phrase for bullshit bingo).

Danni, by god I hate to say this, I agree with you on that, can't we just clip them out of the gene pool? Then only us smart(ass) ones could mate...Or not.

It's Friday folks, lets lighten it up, go over to the Nat Geo thread, we have some really good fart jokes going on there.

*cannot provide for themselves
need to proof my writing better, sheesh

Don't worry about it Gavaster, none of us can read anyway.

"Japan pays $2581 per person has a higher rate of overall coverage and a life expectancy of almost 84 years.

The chi machine was a Japanese invention & originally tested on a 100,000 people before it hit the market...now HTE Taiwan sells it & 5 other extraordinary machines that just alone could significiantly impact these outrageous USA numbers simply if the pharm shills were exposed for the debunkers & true scammers that they are for the almighty $.

#68 Is this the obamachiapet machine?

Gav,

Can you post a source for us (not disagreeing with you, looks like something I'd like to read more on)

he said moron....

#44 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

ff

"the number of individuals employed by the government is larger than the number employed within the manufacturing sector"
econompicdata.blogspot.com

#61 | Posted by AndreaMackris

damning chart...

#68 Is this the obamachiapet machine?

#69 | Posted by IronRey

lol

wish it was...Obama has a lot to answer for now since becoming another Prez busboy for NWO

... and yet the people continue to come from other countries to get their surgeries/health care here.

#71 | Posted by Bani

Doesn't look promising.

How about a chart about the cost of government per ca-pita compared to the rest of the world. Maybe then we can go after the real culprits. The high cost of government.

I understand that there is a Russian machine that sells for about $17k to $25k that does alot more than anything else currently on the market & is what Putin & other elites use to get their speedup work outs on with minimal efforts ~ but bluffs them up significantly!

#74 STIRSUMUP

"Doesn't look promising."

no, a better quality of life for the people is not on the elites agenda for some reason...

Norton says that site is unsafe ~ Gav...?

I have my norton on and it works fine. IDK

your site gav...according to norton

Viruses (what's this?)
Threats found: 1
Here is a complete list:

Ah, it did it to me too....it's a toolbar they want you to add to your explorer.

#76 | Posted by gavaster

Thanks Gav. My machine just got attacked from that site. I'm not planing on going back. You can post it if you like, but I'd run an antivirus/spy-ware detector when your done.

Google search it and click the link

#82 - I have Norton on full blast and I've used the site numerous times and never had a problem.

don't clink on the above link I just posted #80...troublesome unless you have Norton or ? !

... and yet the people continue to come from other countries to get their surgeries/health care here.

#73 | Posted by MSgt

Mayo Clinic here in Minnesota is big business ~ I would certainly go there for emergencies, but preventive care is another story altogether & that is why health care costs are so high imho!

info from the compromise site in #76 & #80

Taxation Statistics > Highest marginal tax rate, individual rate > % (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version

Bar Graph Map

Showing latest available data. Select another time period: Most recent 1998 1999 2000 2002 2003 2004 2006 Rank Countries Amount Date
# 1 Cameroon: 60 % 2002
# 2 Denmark: 59 % 2006
# 3 Netherlands: 52 % 2006
= 4 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: 50 % 2006
= 4 Slovenia: 50 % 2006
= 4 Congo, Republic of the: 50 % 1999
= 4 Austria: 50 % 2006
= 4 Gabon: 50 % 2003
= 4 Belgium: 50 % 2006
= 4 Senegal: 50 % 2002
# 11 Netherlands Antilles: 49.4 % 2006
# 12 Israel: 49 % 2006
# 13 France: 48.09 % 2004
= 14 Papua New Guinea: 47 % 2003
= 14 Australia: 47 % 2006
= 16 Zimbabwe: 45 % 2004
= 16 Croatia: 45 % 2006
= 16 China: 45 % 2006
# 19 Morocco: 44 % 2003
# 20 Italy: 43 % 2006
= 21 Ireland: 42 % 2006
= 21 Germany: 42 % 2006
= 21 Portugal: 42 % 2006
= 24 Greece: 40 % 2006
= 24 New Caledonia: 40 % 2004
= 24 South Africa: 40 % 2006
= 24 Chile: 40 % 2004
= 24 Laos: 40 % 2002
= 24 Barbados: 40 % 2004
= 24 Vietnam: 40 % 2006
= 24 Solomon Islands: 40 % 2006
= 24 United Kingdom: 40 % 2006
= 24 Poland: 40 % 2006
# 34 New Zealand: 39 % 2006
= 35 Luxembourg: 38 % 2006
= 35 Malawi: 38 % 2000
= 37 Faroe Islands: 37 % 2004
= 37 Japan: 37 % 2006
= 37 Thailand: 37 % 2006
# 40 Hungary: 36 % 2006
= 41 Turkey: 35 % 2006
= 41 Namibia: 35 % 2006
= 41 Iran: 35 % 2006
= 41 Benin: 35 % 2006
= 41 Indonesia: 35 % 2006
= 41 Sri Lanka: 35 % 2006
= 41 Malta: 35 % 2006
= 41 Azerbaijan: 35 % 2006
= 41 Pakistan: 35 % 2006
= 41 Argentina: 35 % 2006
= 41 United States: 35 % 2006

= 41 Korea, South: 35 % 2006
# 53 Venezuela: 34 % 2006
# 54 Guyana: 33.3 % 2004
= 55 Lithuania: 33 % 2006
= 55 Swaziland: 33 % 2006
= 55 Puerto Rico: 33 % 2004
# 58 Finland: 32.5 % 2006
= 59 Czech Republic: 32 % 2006
= 59 Philippines: 32 % 2006
= 59 Mozambique: 32 % 2006
= 62 Fiji: 31 % 2006
= 62 Guatemala: 31 % 2006
= 64 Saint Lucia: 30 % 2006
= 64 Burma: 30 % 2000
= 64 Peru: 30 % 2006
= 64 Mauritius: 30 % 2006
= 64 Uganda: 30 % 2006
= 64 Cyprus: 30 % 2006
= 64 Dominican Republic: 30 % 2006
= 64 Nicaragua: 30 % 2006
= 64 El Salvador: 30 % 1998
= 64 Panama: 30 % 2004
= 64 India: 30 % 2006
= 64 Tanzania: 30 % 2006
= 64 Kenya: 30 % 2004
= 64 Zambia: 30 % 2004
# 78 Spain: 29.16 % 2006
= 79 Canada: 29 % 2006
= 79 Mexico: 29 % 2006
= 79 Uzbekistan: 29 % 2006
= 82 Malaysia: 28 % 2006
= 82 Norway: 28 % 1998
# 84 Brazil: 27.5 % 2006
= 85 Nigeria: 25 % 2002
= 85 Ghana: 25 % 2006
= 85 Jamaica: 25 % 2004
= 85 Ecuador: 25 % 2006
= 85 Costa Rica: 25 % 2006
= 85 Trinidad and Tobago: 25 % 2006
= 85 Antigua and Barbuda: 25 % 2006
= 85 Latvia: 25 % 2006
= 85 Botswana: 25 % 2006
= 85 Sweden: 25 % 2006
= 85 Honduras: 25 % 2006
= 96 Bulgaria: 24 % 2006
= 96 Macedonia, Republic of: 24 % 2006
# 98 Estonia: 23 % 2006
# 99 Colombia: 21.99 % 2006
# 100 Singapore: 21 % 2006
= 101 Egypt: 20 % 2006
= 101 Kazakhstan: 20 % 2006
= 101 Cambodia: 20 % 2006
= 101 Hong Kong: 20 % 2006
= 101 Albania: 20 % 2006
= 101 Moldova: 20 % 2006
= 101 Virgin Islands: 20 % 1998
# 108 Slovakia: 19 % 2006
# 109 Man, Isle of: 18 % 2006
# 110 Liechtenstein: 17 % 2003
# 111 Romania: 16 % 2006
# 112 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 15 % 2006
= 113 Ukraine: 13 % 2006
= 113 Russia: 13 % 2006
= 115 Macau: 12 % 2006
= 115 Georgia: 12 % 2006
= 117 Paraguay: 10 % 2006
= 117 Cte d'Ivoire: 10 % 2006
= 117 Serbia and Montenegro: 10 % 2006
Weighted average: 32.5

National Geographic, Just go back to taking pictures of naked women in Africa

#37 | Posted by bph320

Rcade took it out of my original title ~ "no pinups":>)

I see several countries with universal healthcare, both above and below the U.S., in that tax rate list. What's your point?

We need CEOs, accountants, engineers, garbage collectors, and ditch diggers. We also need to do some manufecturing here in the USA. We need assembly line workers just as much as we need people changing our sheets in the hotels we stay in.

#59 | Posted by Sniper

Some of the people you mention will never do any better than the bottom rungs, simply because they don't have the ability or mental capacity to do so. They should still have access to affordable healthcare and a fair living. (I realize that what constitutes a fair living is subjective. It's not the subject today.)

Those who are more fortunate but don't want to help with the burden for these people, may certainly move else ware. By the list above I see the top tax rate in Paraguay is only 10%.

again, as with many issues we face, a major attitudinal shift is what it will take.

people with government jobs, for example, tend to do crap work, i.e,. the VA's managed medical care is crap.

e.g., i go to the VA, doc says they have new machine and signs me up for the treatment, but it has to be approved. approved by who? why isn't the doc's desire to use it on me good enough?

our people (Americans) are radicalized, uneducated, and probably hopelessly out of touch.

we need radical shifts. we need universal single payer NOW.

end the drug war NOW.

etc., these things are interconnected --attitude wise.

our people (Americans) are radicalized, uneducated, and probably hopelessly out of touch.

#93 | Posted by ichiro

Exactly.

I'm still not a selfish jerk who thinks as long as I got mine then fuck everyone else.

Well if that's the case, then give your entire check to "everyone else". Leave my paycheck and taxes out of it...

And isnt that what charities are for anyway? But there isnt enough money in charities, is it?

#92 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

These people DO have access to healthcare, they just can't afford a $1500 mortgage and $800 in car payments every month plus health insurance. For people living within their means, healthcare IS affordable. Not cheap, but doable. And again, it comes down to what that individual wants.

Go do the math on what it REALLY takes to support a family, without all the frills of new cars, new house, and eating out ALL the time.

our people (Americans) are radicalized, uneducated, and probably hopelessly out of touch.

#93 | Posted by ichiro

Exactly.

#94 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2010-01-08 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag

Very funny ...

Sorry for any vagueness, but it is cliche to equate the term 'radical' with those who push for change, while those who want to maintain the status quo are generally called 'reactionary'.

Now, of course, the Left feels it is in control and the status quo is one of radical change from capitalism to socialism. So, any disagreement is referred to as radicalism or change from the status quo.

See? That's funny, since Leftists can't help but spin a lie, no matter how they change the definitions and meaning of words to do so!!!

"Conservatism" is now continuing the evolution to socialism, while "Radicalism" is an attempt to change that direction ...

... you can't deny that Leftists make themselves appear to be stupid and think of everyone else being as stupid as they are ... "Radical" means rightwing, and "Reactionary" means rightwing, and no label can be applied to Democrats ... or you're a "Racist Reactionary Radical" ...

"the VA's managed medical care is crap... we need universal single payer NOW."

Now there's a logical leap of an enlightened mind. I hope that was sarcasm....

Leave my paycheck and taxes out of it...

And isnt that what charities are for anyway? But there isnt enough money in charities, is it?

#95 | Posted by boaz

"At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge", said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?", asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons", said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?", demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still", returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?", said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course", said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."
"Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude", returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when want is keenly felt, and abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"
"Nothing!", Scrooge replied.
"You wish to be anonymous?"
"I wish to be left alone", said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentionedthey cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die", said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besidesexcuse meI don't know that."
"But you might know it", observed the gentleman.
"It's not my business", Scrooge returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"
Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him."

Nice. Way to remove any and all responsibility from your precious Democrats, who just flat out voted against the drug import measure.

That would be part of the bill that passed if only Senate Democrats supported it. They only needed something like 2/3 of the Senate Democrats, since so many Republicans voted for it. The Obama admin opposed it too. But you're not interested in that, are you?

#48 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-01-08 10:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not defending the dems, simply pointing out your flagrant ignorance of the facts, that's all.

Seeing clearly that it would be useless to pursue their point, the gentlemen withdrew. Scrooge resumed his labours with an improved opinion of himself, and in a more facetious temper than was usual with him."

#100 | Posted by donnerboy

And this has what to do with how & why America is on top of the giving monies to themselves health care chain?

America isn't a scrooge?

You should know, after 8 years of seeing you anti-patriot-for-votes sign waving bums doing nothing to help the war against the actual enemy of the USA "we" all were fighting (even Canadians) ...
You obstructionists certainly can project your fault onto your true enemy ... not terrorism ... but fellow Americans who may be rightwing conservatives!
You spinning liars are dizzy, of that there is no doubt ...

#39 | POSTED BY TADOWE

I know I am but what are you!

You talk big over the "internets" pussy. Keyboard tough guy.

"real amerikans" like yourself cower in their momma's basement screaming liberal this liberal that
spewing garbage about how "they" are fucking it all up..

just shoot yourself moron. You are indeed a sad blob of shit.

#43 | POSTED BY GAVASTER

site the source for the GDP number's You are wrong btw.

Legio gets badass, " ... just shoot yourself moron. You are indeed a sad blob of shit."

This is a Democrat's idea of reasonable debate ...

Legio gets badass, " ... just shoot yourself moron. You are indeed a sad blob of shit."
This is a Democrat's idea of reasonable debate ...

#105 | POSTED BY TADOWE

You jettisoned reasonable a long time ago moron.

Who ever said I am a liberal? I just don't fucking like you.

"You jettisoned reasonable a long time ago moron."

#107 | Posted by Legio at 2010-01-09 09:47 PM | Reply | Flag: it's still more entertaining than TV

"You jettisoned reasonable a long time ago moron."

You voted for Reagan; Twice.

This is your planetary fuckup, loser.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Legio says, "You jettisoned reasonable a long time ago moron."

BS. I always reason why my insults are accurate uses of adjectives.

"Who ever said I am a liberal? I just don't fucking like you."

The 'false' pandemic: Drug firms cashed in on scare over swine flu, claims Euro health chief
By Fiona Macrae
Last updated at 8:38 AM on 11th January 2010

Comments (483) Add to My Stories
The swine flu outbreak was a 'false pandemic' driven by drug companies that stood to make billions of pounds from a worldwide scare, a leading health expert has claimed.

Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic.

This led to the pharmaceutical firms ensuring 'enormous gains', while countries, including the UK, 'squandered' their meagre health budgets, with millions being vaccinated against a relatively mild disease.