Don't these assholes read Bumper Stickers "When Guns are Outlawed only Outlaws will have them" seems self explanatory to me. If you don't like guns move your sorry ass to a country that is already fucked up like Red China, the Soviet Union, or North Korea...
They work great when all the cops are at the Donut shop and you are being car jacked, trust me I know I had a guy jump in my truck and then jump right back out...

Not that one is dependant upon the other, but it does kinda blow holes in the "too many guns, blood in the streets" bullshit coming from Northguy, Doc and the Poster Formerly Known as AmericanUnity.

If anything this suggests to me that this is an extremely complex topic and that number of guns is not in any way an accurate indicator of violent crime.

Too often it is oversimplified to serve both agendas despite it being a single factor amongst many.

"I had a guy jump in my truck and then jump right back out."

Slow on the trigger?

LOL!

If anything this suggests to me that this is an extremely complex topic and that number of guns is not in any way an accurate indicator of violent crime.

So why does the anti-gun left always try to use the number of guns as a yard stick to measure how much crime will occur?

Will this be one of those threads that doesn't really attract to much attention from the usual suspects because it flies in the face of every bit of their nonsense?

Too often it is oversimplified to serve both agendas despite it being a single factor amongst many.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2009-12-31 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let me make is easy for you, Simpleton:

An armed society is a polite society

So why does the anti-gun left always try to use the number of guns as a yard stick to measure how much crime will occur?

Because they're simplistic dipshits (like Vernon here).

Will this be one of those threads that doesn't really attract to much attention from the usual suspects because it flies in the face of every bit of their nonsense?

Seems like it.

An armed society is a polite society

There's more to it than that. You cannot honestly look at the various countries mired in anarchy with a great part of the populace armed to the teeth and claim that an armed citizenry is what keeps people "polite".

Seems like it.

Looks that way. I guess we'll have to wait for another thread about someone tragically losing their life because a fucking nutcase got their hands on a gun before they chime in.

That reminds me of a song...

"You cannot honestly look at the various countries mired in anarchy with a great part of the populace armed to the teeth and claim that an armed citizenry is what keeps people "polite".

Sure I can...in those countries you describe it's not the POPULACE that's armed, it's the government, terrorists, criminals, militia or some other abhorrent group that's armed, not the "citzenry." HERE'S the situation when the "citizenry" is armed:

HERE'S the situation when the "citizenry" is armed:

It's not the gun keeping the people polite. You're not factoring in the fact that the men are conscripted into the military, they're trained to use their weapons and are allowed to keep them, modified to no longer be fully automatic, after their service is complete.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of factors that contribute to the crime rate of any given country. Claiming that the abundance of guns is all that need be considered is intellectually dishonest.

they're trained to use their weapons and are allowed to keep them

I don't know if this was ever the case in the last 50 years, but it certainly isn't now. I don't get to keep my M4 when I get out.

"I don't get to keep my M4 when I get out."

If you live in a free state, you can buy one when you get out.

Beginning in January-June, 2007: there's been a downward trend in violent crime:

Title should read:

NRA: Decrease in Murders as Firearms Sales Soar

The FBI report makes no such assumption, and speaks of all violent crimes, as opposed to just murders.

Good news anyway.

Zat:

Your headline is grossly misleading, inferring that the FBI said that murders were decreasing because of soaring firearm sales. No such thing occurred, as a bare glance at the link page (which is the National Rifle Association's) shows.

And even the link page fails to establish any causal linkage between the two occurrences. Yes, people bought more guns, and yes, murder rates have dropped, but there's no proof I see here that those two things are in any way connected.

It's just as possible that in this economy, anyone spending so much money for a gun might not have anything left over to buy ammo for it.

In case anyone's sarcasm meter needs fine-tuning, that was a joke.

Willowby, clearly I was directly responding to the idea that people go keep their weapon after separating from the military.

And I live in a terrible state for gun oppression.

Same thing happened under Clinton too.

I guess people just seem to want to murder more when a Republicant is in the WH.

.....this has to do with the cumulative effect of the availability of abortions......all the research seems to agree, that the more abortions, we have, the fewer unwanted children there are, and it is the unwanted and uncared for that tend to make up the mass of the criminal culture......

......Yeay.!......Go Abortion !!.......

We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization . . . . Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

#18 | Posted by skizziks

statistics also clearly show that waaay more abortions are performed on women with a liberal/Dem mind-set - -

soo, we could have a nearly crime free country simply by reducing the # of libs in our society

re-educate 'em or export 'em

more abortions are performed on women with a liberal/Dem mind-set - -
#19 | Posted by markh

......link please.?....oh never mind, you are wrong,so I will provide you with the link.......

....fact is that CHRISTIAN women have the most abortions in American.....so if we follow your logic, all we would have to do reduce abortions is to outlaw Christianity......

.....and please note that "Born-Again" holy rollers have 18% of all abortions while comprising only 8 percent of the population, meaning they have abortion rates at twice the national average......

thanks skiz, ya lay it out so clearly . . .
#19 | Posted by markh

....always happy to help the less fortunate......

SKIZ-
This nation is predominately Christian. Not sure your illustration gets to his point about more Dem-leaning women getting abortions.

And Christians cross political boundary lines, don't they?

Not sure your illustration gets to his point about more Dem-leaning women getting abortions.
#22 | Posted by OohRah

......I understand your point, but Markh made up his own stats regarding Dem-leaning abortions, he is welcome to provide a link, but I have researched this topic, and all the evidence shows to the contrary.......

.......religious women have abortions at a higher rate, because they don't use contraceptives, but screw like rabbits just the same........this is what all the links support as evidence.......

......but that is just an aside, the basic topic is about reduced crime, and that is happening because abortions are widely available, and the little criminals are getting pre-natal justice....

SKIZ-
Serious question for a moment. Just as with the global warming debate and dubious research stats used to bolster one's particular side... consider the abortion debate.

We both know this is heavily a Dem issue in that Dems support it and Reps don't. (There are exceptions to that, of course, but the two parties are on opposing ends of this issue.)

Here's the question: Given all that's invested in this, do you think it possible (even likely) that wherever possible, statistics could be altered or pitched which would otherwise not put Dems in a favorable light? How forthcoming would Planned Parenthood be? Lots of privacy issues here. They apparently "track" some areas but not others, like politics. Ever wonder why some info is available and other info is not?

Related topic... if there's a linkage in this thread between aborting kids and reduced crime, then is there evidence indicating that born-again Christians commit a higher percentage of violent crime vs their % of the population? I can't imagine that born-agains would commit a greater percentage of violent crime than is their percent of the overall population.

SKIZ-
Given the addage, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree," I wonder about the mothers involved here.

If we're drawing a connection between the aborted and reduced crime, I wonder about the crime rate of those mothers. It'd be interesting to see their rate vs the general population.

#24 | Posted by OohRah

....you've made several good points......

....."there are lies, damn lies, and there are statistics".....yes, statistics can be manipulated for political ends.....However, there is a famous book by economist Steven Levitt called "Freakonomics", where he proves, beyond dispute, that the availability of abortions leads to reduced crime rates......and he does not judge whether that is good or bad, he simply makes his point and proves it........

then is there evidence indicating that born-again Christians commit a higher percentage of violent crime vs their % of the population?

......there is nothing that I have ever seen that would support higher crime rates among born-again Christians, I suspect that you are right, and they probably have lower crime rates.......

.....but the crime rates that are reduced by abortion are not among the women who have abortions, it is among their children, Levitt makes a compelling case that UNWANTED children, are a disproportionate source of crime.......

I wonder about the crime rate of those mothers. It'd be interesting to see their rate vs the general population.

......I am not aware of such a study.....but I surmise that the mothers are probably no different from the general population, but it seems that unwanted children, boys in particular, do not turn out properly socialized when they are unwanted......

so let me get this straight

we have more guns but now are showing less murders???

hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

of course this stat has been around in texas and florida ever since the 'packin heat' laws were enacted in those two states so its nothing we havnet known for some time..

#26 and 27...

CRIS-
I'd forgotten about Bennett's comments. It's true that blacks commit violent crimes at a rate greater than their percentage of the population.

Hypothetically, how our country would be if we eliminated a percentage of the population... say, 30% or so. The weak, infirmed, aged, criminal, the retarded, handicapped, the habitually lazy, etc.

It would make financial sense as a nation. But the human cost would be catastrophic and no moral society would seriously consider it.

#30...

That is exactly what Bennett's point was. But because he was a white republican, the typical left came out and dubbed him a racist and claimed he wanted to abort all black babies. Although I would bet Bill Cosby would have received the same reaction.

Not sure your illustration gets to his point about more Dem-leaning women getting abortions.
#22 | Posted by OohRah

Markh made up his own stats regarding Dem-leaning abortions . . the evidence shows to the contrary

religious women have abortions at a higher rate . .

the little criminals are getting pre-natal justice....

#23 | Posted by skizziks

b) 30%+ of Catholics, Protestants, & Jews are Dems

c) re; the little criminals . . . very saddly, ya may be correct - - - perhaps ya can replace 'em with illegals