Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, December 31, 2009

In response to former Vice President Dick Cheney's latest criticism of President Obama, a senior Democrat in the White House made this response: "It's telling that in attacking the president and the administration, that Vice President Cheney did not condemn the attack against our nation on Christmas Day."

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Dick Cheney would be arrested for treason under the kind of laws he tried to get passed to stifle criticism of the administration.

High time he was told to shut his twisted mouth for the sake of what's left of his reputation. He is going to rival Henry Kissinger as a traitor to his country if he doesn't shut the fuck up.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again,
FUCK YOU DICK, YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11.
BURN IN HELL ASSHOLE.

Ahh, much better.

Why would anyone think Cheney's opinion is relevant???

Hey Dick(head)-shut yer cake-hole-before we take a look in those "Secret Files" you keep hoping will just go away....

The problem is, this looks more like an "assisted" attack. Assisted by the cia and/or other US intel. ops.
Thats how they keep so many frightened. Kill your own to prove the threat.

Classic subversive governance.

Gitmboy, I think I just read a story about you eating a pound of chocolate a day and causing electronic devices to malfunction (yet somehow you're able to use a computer). It was milk-through-the-nose funny.

Uh, oh, I hope I didn't piss you off, Mr. X Man. I'd hate for you to use your psionic powers to make my head explode.

Dick Cheney would be arrested for treason . . . High time he was told to shut his twisted mouth . . .
#1 | Posted by sitdown
I just think of Cheney as an "homegrown businessman" - -
voicing his views on "overseas contingency operations"

perhaps he'll chime in on "global climate variations" as well

If you're a lefty, and you say "Dick Cheney" three times into the mirror, you magically crap your pants.

this looks more like an "assisted" attack. Assisted by the cia and/or other US intel. ops.

Classic subversive governance.

#5 | Posted by gitmboy

ya think Biden & Pelosi maybe regret pissing off the CIA

we could see more, the intel community may have seen enough of this gang

I guess CHeney and Bush should acquiesce like good children and listen to Obammy say "Bush's fault" for four years.

Mayb if Obama would quit saying "Bush & Cheney" Bush & Cheney would quit saying "Obama"

Nothing keeps the failures of the Republicans front and center than having Cheney open his yap. Dumbass doesn't realize that there's a lot of comparisons going on between his Administration and this one, and it's not painting a positive picture of the past Admin.

Just like the dumbass GOP coming out and saying "Oh! Obama didn't respond for 72 hours!" all the while forgetting there's a record and Bush took 6 days to say anything about the shoe bomber.

Or the "How could Obama possibly try this guy in the Federal Courts?" when Reid was tried and convicted in the Federal Court System and the GOP thought that was just great.

Every single criticism these bozos launch gets compared, and the GOP/Bush/Cheney triumvirate comes up short. You'd think they'd learn that shutting their traps, rooting for America would win them points or at least not cost them - but no.

When you have Hoekstra making money off the attempted bombing, you pretty much know the GOP "plan" for America's security.

Mayb if Obama would quit saying "Bush & Cheney" Bush & Cheney would quit saying "Obama"
#10 | Posted by goatman

.....so the Party of Responsibility doesn't want ....er...responsibility ...for the faulty policies they put in place anymore ?......

Cheney needs to shut the fuck up. He doesn't HAVE TO, but he really should. The more mouthy he gets, the more likely the WH is to ask Holder to go after his dumb ass for essentially admitting war crimes on TV.

Hopefully, Big Dick will keep shooting his mouth off, and not his friends faces.

so the Party of Responsibility doesn't want ....er...responsibility ...for the faulty policies they put in place anymore ?...... <

Not being a member, I can't speak for them, but speaking for myself, I want to see positive action from the White House, not blame.

I want to see positive action from the White House, not blame.
#14 | Posted by goatman

......that's mighty Republican of you, Mr. Independent.......

......but unless we identify what the mistakes were, including who made them and why, we will not be able to rectify the after effects of the failed policies.......

"I want to see positive action from the White House, not blame."

that's mighty Republican of you, Mr. Independent.......

???

This is news to me. I thought everyone wanted positive action from the WH, not just the Republicans. The Democrats don't? I guess that explains why they elected Obammy. LOL

..but unless we identify what the mistakes were, including who made them and why, we will not be able to rectify the after effects of the failed policies.......

Fuck. That one's pretty stale by now. Only the most idiotic of idiots don't know what mistakes were made and who is to blame. If Obammy didn't already have that figured out last January (forget by now!) he had no business taking the oath.

I thought everyone wanted positive action from the WH, not just the Republicans.#16 | Posted by goatman

......it's more important to have the right action, than the right away action.......

.....Bush & Cheney taught us that......

.....and as for the Party of No, the only interest they have, is in obstructing progress for Americans, so that their corporate masters can continue to pillage and rape America.......

.....I'm sure they appreciate your continued support......

.....I'm sure they appreciate your continued support......

Who appreciates my continued support?

Only the most idiotic of idiots don't know what mistakes were made and who is to blame.
#16 | Posted by goatman

.....if you scroll to the top of this thread, you will notice that the article says "Cheney Accuses Obama Again".......

......are you calling Mr.Cheney "the most idiotic of idiots" ?......it would seem so.......

.....and since he is the one who started this exchange with his attack, perhaps you should re-direct your expectations to him......

Who appreciates my continued support?
#18 | Posted by goatman

the most idiotic of idiots
#16 | Posted by goatman

......you've answered your own question......

Goat is a right wing hack who will never admit the truth.

......are you calling Mr.Cheney "the most idiotic of idiots" ?......it would seem so.......

Likewise it sounds you are saying we need to identify Obama's mistakes and assign blame when you said:

but unless we identify what the mistakes were, including who made them and why, we will not be able to rectify the after effects of the failed policies.......

(It works both ways)

If a terrorist attack occurs on Obama's watch expect the tools on the right to call for an impeachment.

Who appreciates my continued support?
#18 | Posted by goatman

the most idiotic of idiots
#16 | Posted by goatman

......you've answered your own question......

What, is this Jeopardy? I'm flattered, so I'll try to let you down gently. You don't have my support.

Only the most idiotic of idiots don't know what mistakes were made and who is to blame.
#16 | Posted by goatman


You have just defined the GNOP base.

"A full investigation has been launched into this attempted act of terrorism."
--Barak Obama

No, Mr. President, it was not an "attempted act." It was in fact a real, bone fide, actual, real-life, genuine, authentic, honest-to-goodness, factual, concrete, you-betcha act.

Man with bomb gets on a plane. That's it. That's the act. Right there. See it? It's jumping up and down and waving a flag. It's yelling "Yoohoo!" Hey, over here. I'm the act. Look at me!"

That, Mr. President, is what you failed to prevent. You do not get a B+ grade. This is pass-fail. Prevent man with bomb getting on plane = pass. Permit man with bomb to get on plane = fail.

Furthermore, it was quite successful terrorism in that people are more afraid to fly today than they were a few days ago. So, by the only criteria that matters for the terrorism-making people afraid-what happened over Detroit on Christmas Day was in fact quite successful. I for one wouldn't be more frightened of flying had the plane been blown out of the sky and hundreds of lives lost than I am today. I'd be considerably sadder, but no more frightened.

Hell. I'm more afraid today when a plane flies overhead.

Because a man with bomb got on a plane.

I'm certainly more frightened of flying, Mr. President, than I was during those dark years when the apparatus of intelligence and defense was in the hands of your constitution-shredding not-as-articulate-as-you predecessor.

It was a long time ago, back in November in fact, when another terrorist was successful attacking innocent Americans at Fort Hood, Texas. That was an act, too. A successful terrorist act.

The penetration of our defenses by a terrorist a few days ago, was the second successful attack on the United States in the last few weeks.

And, Mr. President, those weeks belong to you.

but the system worked, ur uh, after i mean..
brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have just defined the GNOP base.

Only of of them, huh? I figured more.

so earlier this month 6 more gitmo boys were sent back to yemen, i thought the white house said they were fully focused on yemen, well maybe they implanted micro bombs in these released detainees to kill the leadership once they get back the jihad groove

I'm more afraid today

Pants pisser.

"It's telling that in attacking the president and the administration, that Vice President Cheney did not condemn the attack against our nation on Christmas Day."

=============

It's even more telling that the Messiah did not condemn the attack against our nation on Christmas Day.

But maybe it was because he was annoyed by that sand hazard on the 7th hole.

Cheney's little screed was factual garbage. Anyone with Google can search and find instance after instance where Cheney's assertions are fabrication. He doesn't really care about anything but throwing red meat to the right-wing. Either that or he really is losing his mind.

America is Dead. Both as a tangible and as an idea and as a tactic. Thank You Cheney.

It's even more telling that the Messiah did not condemn the attack against our nation on Christmas Day.

But maybe it was because he was annoyed by that sand hazard on the 7th hole.

Another right-wing talking point that's hypocritical. After Reid the shoe bomber's attempt, Bush who was on vacation, finally came out and said something 6 days later.

Shhhh don't bother Vern with facts. He is not interested.

Why would anyone think Cheney's opinion is relevant???

#3 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-12-30 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Excellent point.

Kinda funny how Cheney can make some random statement whenever he feels like it and the entire fucking Messiah Administration goes Ape Shit.

Cheney always had a mean streak in him. He's discovered that he can make the president jump up and down and squeal like a pig, just by saying something.

That's got to be good fun!

I'm tired of Cheney making headlines with rhetoric like this. His administration had a presidential daily briefing titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" before the 9/11 attacks and failed to act, costing 2,973 lives. Can you imagine what he'd say about Obama if he ignored a warning like that?

unless we identify what the mistakes were, including who made them and why, we will not be able to rectify the after effects of the failed policies.......

#15 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-12-31 07:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

.....About damn time some ......Lefty crank admitted the great.... fuck up ....Jimmy Carter ..... who is personally..... responsible .....for most of the ....... world's problems ... today

Shhhh don't bother Vern with facts. He is not interested.

~726.

Not interested?

Worse than that.

The poor bastard is actually allergic to facts.

Breaks out in hives every time he cracks an encyclopedia.

More a creature to be pitied than scorned, really.

^_^

Be Well.

Can you imagine what he'd say about Obama if he ignored a warning like that?

The phrase "he'd shit puppies" leaps readily to mind there.

Be Well.

Another right-wing talking point that's hypocritical. After Reid the shoe bomber's attempt, Bush who was on vacation, finally came out and said something 6 days later.

#33 | Posted by YAV at 2009-12-31 09:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Shhhh don't bother Vern with facts. He is not interested.

#34 | Posted by 726 at 2009-12-31 09:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

-----------

My comment was about your Messiah. The terror attack occurred on the Messiah's watch. More than one year AFTER he took office.

It is obvious how desperately you cling to the reliable old 'Bush's Fault' mantra. Or the equal "well, Bush did it first!" stupidity.

The old 'Bush Diversion' is no longer valid.

I'm sorry. I know that upsets your entire, fragile world view.

You know, Walt and I had gotten into a lively discussion yesterday and I had share this opinion:

It's insulting that the right keep using the title "Messiah" when speaking of Obama. There is ONE Messiah and it surely isn't Obama! It is very, VERY offensive to Christians who actually love Christ enough to try and live their lives by His teachings.

And what causes me to shake my head, is that that phrase isn't being used by liberals to describe Obama, it's being used by the "religious" right who should know better and are soiling Christ by throwing that term around in reference to a mere man as an insult.

Liberals had hope of change, worldly change of direction for this country. So ya'll insult Christ because of THAT??

Walt graciously stopped refering to Obama using that title.

Will you?

Cheney's assertions are fabrication... or he really is losing his mind. -- #31 | Posted by YAV

He lost it a long time ago.

psychopath (sī'kə-pāth')
n. A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
dictionary.reference.com

"It's very offensive to Christians (to call Obama Messiah)...."

Yup. That's why they do it.

Liberals had hope of change, worldly change of direction for this country. So ya'll insult Christ because of THAT??

no, we will just insult liberals for it.

but you are correct, Christ is getting raked into it.

but you see......Obama is NOT the Messiah despite many many liberals belief that he is by virture of what they post about him and their shameless defense of any shortcomings he has and that is the point of the insults in the first place.

"This is pass-fail...."

So....No one dies on that recent flight and Obama gets an "F"? Interesting.

What was Bush's grade the year the towers fell? Do you assign F-minuses? Maybe it should have been about 3,000 individual "F's".

Strange, hypocritical, little man.

"but you see......Obama is NOT the Messiah despite many many liberals belief that he is by virture of what they post about him and their shameless defense of any shortcomings he has and that is the point of the insults in the first place."

The only ones who are calling him that are you folks on the right!!!!

You ought to be ashamed!

There is absolutely no difference between their opinions and defense of Obama than yours and others were about Bush!

This gets to why Republicans aren't really going to be going anywhere politically very soon at all. If this were ancient Egypt, you fellows would be busy chiseling off the glyph for 9/11 as fast as you can. Sane people notice this.

Bush II set the gold standard for incompetence in terms of national defense. That's "gold", as in a scarce, heavy, and yellow-colored metal.

"Yup. That's why they do it."

Zed, I have yet to see someone from the left here actally call Obama the "Messiah".

The term is being used by the so called "religious" right as a mockery and insult.

LISA---whomever uses the title Messiah as an insult cannot be a Christian. Or, to be a bit less harsh, not a very nice one.

I never hoped to be "saved" by Obama. I just wanted someone better than his predeccessor. All evidence so far as I got what I voted for.

I have gotten to the point where I'd like to hear one person on the Right, just one, assign responsibility for 9/11 to George W. Bush.

That would seem only fair, given the crap I've heard spewed from their mouths the last few days about an attack that didn't work.

As usual, not holding my breath. That starts to hurt after about four minutes.

"It's very offensive to Christians (to call Obama Messiah)...."

Yup. That's why they do it."

More of that persecution complex. It's bullshit. Rightwing Christians aren't trying to offend Christians by using the "messiah" taunt.

"Rightwing Christians...."

I may be giving some too much credit, but I assume real Christians just don't go there.

Well Zed, ultimately that will be between that person and God.

But it makes me cringe and turns my stomach every time I see someone from the right calling Obama that title.

And those are the people who should know better!

Bush II set the gold standard for incompetence in terms of national defense. That's "gold", as in a scarce, heavy, and yellow-colored metal.

#47 | Posted by Zed at 2009-12-31 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

TRANSLATION:

BUSH's FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

BUSH's FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

BUSH's FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

BUSH's FAULT!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats Zed! You finally grew a Bush!!!!!

Null, I'm speaking to the folks who actually believe in Christ, not those who want to persecute those who follow Him.

Nice try sweetie, but I'm afraid your attempt to make something out of nothing has failed.

"Bush's fault...."

That would be my entire point. If this lonely little Nigerian was Obama's fault, using that same logic, the 3,000 dead on 09/11/01 are Bush's fault.

If you want to deny this, please do. It wouldn't surprise me.

The only ones who are calling him that are you folks on the right!!!!

of course the people who believe he is the Messiah are too ashamed to admit it.

You ought to be ashamed!

no, the people who DO think he IS the Messiah are to be ashamed and as I pointed out above, probably are somewhat and that is why they don't just come out and proclaim him to be the Messiah.

More of that persecution complex. It's bullshit. Rightwing Christians aren't trying to offend Christians by using the "messiah" taunt.

exactly right. it's meant to be a political insult and nothing more.

Lisa, save your persecution speech for when agonstics and atheists truly attack and offend Christians.

Nice try sweetie, but I'm afraid your attempt to make something out of nothing has failed.

thats funny. that is exactly what you have done.

George W. Bush has been a better president and former president ever since he stopped paying so much attention to the imbecile Cheney who ran the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war very unsuccessfully. Why would anyone today care what that failure has to say?? Bush seems to be much classier person than Cheney ever will be. Oh, and someone please tell his stupid daughter to just go away.

Well see, Cheney was too busy to go to 'Nam when his country called... he had 5 deferments worth of "other priorities".

Which wouldn't bother me at all except for the vast right wing hypocrisy that he has become the major Chickenhawk in Chief, pushing for war as long as someone else has to do the fighting.

"It's telling that in attacking the president and the administration, that Vice President Cheney did not condemn the attack against our nation on Christmas Day."

An excellent observation, but that is EXACTLY how the neocon/repugs operate.

Their biggest enemy in the 90's weren't the terrorists who attacked the WTC barely a month after clinton took office, but clinton himself.
Think of how the terrorists were emboldened after their attack and watched the new repug congress go after our own potus and not themselves.

Before that, it was carter.

Now, it's Obama.

I'd say they have no shame, but how would they know what shame is if they have none?

hallichainy should stfu, go back to retirement, doing his recreational suv DRIVE-BY DRUNKEN hunting of stocked quail and lawyers OR just move to Dubai with halliburton and count his ill gotten war profits.

Show me one person on the left who claimed Obama was the Messiah?

No one!

It's those on the right who should know better than to resort to blasphemy in order to insult another.

It's not persecution, it's blasphemous. Shame you don't understand the difference.

Sorry if you don't think blasphemy is "nothing", Eb.

It doesn't surprise me, however.

#61 | Posted by timbci

Oh look, it's Timbicile, the walking, talking self-retorting parody of a man.

Only on the Ol' DR.

Nothing wrong with hunting lawyers. They will be among the first to suffer in the coming war

There is nothing more satisfying that that being able to pluck real estate from the uneducated middle class. I will be using my bonus to buy some suckers real estate for next to nothing. 2 yrs from now I will sell it to some other middle class sucker

It's not persecution, it's blasphemous. Shame you don't understand the difference.

I know the difference, I'm being blasphemous and you are persecuted. Obama is the Messiah. etc etc.

we should have a program printed so everyone knows their roles. LOL

You are taking it too seriously because you are one of the liberals who is so infactuated with Obama and this hits too close to home for you.

so I'll tell you what......why don't you give a name to Obama that describes the unlimited adoration and venerance for him on the part of liberals who feel that way about him. Not all liberals feel that strong about him.

Or you can just sit in the corner and feel persecuted.

your choice....it doesn't really matter to me.

It's insulting that the right keep using the title "Messiah" when speaking of Obama.

Hi Lisa,

It is. It's meant to deem Obama and those who support him by suggesting Obama and his supporters think he is God. I don't think those who use the term are trying to insult Christians. They are trying to insult liberals, who they never tire of labeling as godless, by claiming Obama and Democrats are under the sway of some messianic Obama cult. It's balderdash, but there you have it.

Happy New Year to you!

Once again you show how you possess such little to no knowledge , Eb!

I am not an Obama fan, I am not a liberal.

You assign positions to people when you have no reasonable, logical retort.

I am not an Obama fan, I am not a liberal.

I really don't know to what extent you are an Obama fan but you definately are a liberal.

wow. you have to crazy to think you can just assert you aren't a liberal. Except for being pro-life, you are liberal right down the line.

GAL!!!!!!

Happy New Year!!!!!

You are taking it too seriously because you are one of the liberals who is so infactuated with Obama and this hits too close to home for you.

Wow, you don't know Lisa very well if you believe that.

Show me one person on the left who claimed Obama was the Messiah?

No one!

That's right, Lisa. I find it interesting that the same folks who believed George Bush was ordained by God to be president are now the same ones claiming that liberals are the ones who have a messianic complex. Sounds like projection to me.

It is. It's meant to deem Obama and those who support him by suggesting Obama and his supporters think he is God. I don't think those who use the term are trying to insult Christians. They are trying to insult liberals, who they never tire of labeling as godless, by claiming Obama and Democrats are under the sway of some messianic Obama cult. It's balderdash, but there you have it.

forget it Gal, Lisa has to be persecuted and offended. she doesn't accept that explanation despite that it is dead on.

Oops: deem should be demean in #68

I find it interesting that the same folks who believed George Bush was ordained by God to be president are now the same ones claiming that liberals are the ones who have a messianic complex.

are there folks here who did that? seriously, I don't know.

That's right, Lisa. I find it interesting that the same folks who believed George Bush was ordained by God to be president are now the same ones claiming that liberals are the ones who have a messianic complex. Sounds like projection to me

~Gal Tuesday.

THIS.

Post o' the Day.

Howdy, Gal!

Happy New Year to you and yers!

^_^

Be Well.

Happy New Year to you, too, Eb! I hope 2010 is good to you and to Lisa. To all drudgies actually!

#57 Eberly

Those conservatives who chastised liberals for having hope that their man could help to get the country back on track are doing their own party no favor. One man positively energized masses of the voting public in a way that had not been seen in a long time. I had no choice but to hope he would come through for the people, and he had his chance with all of us on his side. Either he'd come through for us, or he wouldn't. He didn't.

But if he were really to go against the interests of the big monies (who are not operating in the best interests of humanity) that own this country, they and their media would demolish him like they did Ron Paul.

Anyway, cynically hating on peoples' genuine hope for a positive future is unappealing. So what's the purpose of doing it?

Thanks Gal. Same to you.

And I'll concede that anybody who felt the same love and admiration for Bush is 100% hypocritical when referring to Obama as the Messiah as a method to accuse liberals of exactly what they have done themselves.

All of them are looney.

Ahoy there, Spud! Good to see you today of all days. Drudge board auld langsyne and all that.

are there folks here who did that? seriously, I don't know.

I don't know about on this site, but, yes, there was even a video made on the topic that was shown at some GOP gatherings. I think it may have been shown behind the scenes at the GOP presidential convention when Bush was running.

"That's right, Lisa. I find it interesting that the same folks who believed George Bush was ordained by God to be president are now the same ones claiming that liberals are the ones who have a messianic complex. Sounds like projection to me."

I absolutely agree Gal!!!

And it's shameful that they blasphemy willthey do!

The New Year looks to be very promising for us Gal, I pray the same with you!

I love you girl!! Let's plan on a good yak soon!

Happy New Year Tater and Gal and all you Leapin' Liberals!

.... and happy second of 8 Obama Years, Tighties!

Anyway, cynically hating on peoples' genuine hope for a positive future is unappealing. So what's the purpose of doing it?

genuine hope for a positive future is a subset of the Messiah complex. It is part of it but certainly not all and, again, I don't accuse all liberals of this.

I'm referring to those who have ignored, denied and outright refused to even acknowledge any shortcoming on the part of Obama or the dems.

A great example of this complex would be the thread where Obama's first year was graded. Those who basically said "Obama is not Bush and I give him a B or better" are those who suffer from this complex.

those are the folks I am referring to.

I voted for Obama. He was the better candidate IMO and, like most of us here, "hoped" for some positive changes.

But for crying out loud, how can you not scrutinize what is right in front of your eyes?

#82

there goes one of them now.

#84 | Posted by eberly at 2009-12-31 10:59 AM | Reply | Flag: Butt still hurting from yesterday

Either he'd come through for us, or he wouldn't. He didn't.

Well, I'm still hoping, although I admit the hope is fading, that Obama can see the light, so to speak. I plan on writing to him and my congressman and senators about the impending health care reform bill, starting with the fact that mandating people buy insurance when there is no public option is dead wrong. Ed Schultz raised an interesting topic last night on the segment I saw. He asked how the government plans to enforce the new rules regarding not covering folks with pre-existing conditions or dropping folks who get seriously ill after they have had a plan for a while. Good questions. Now is the time for liberals to speak up. We gotta be the squeaky wheels. I'm not sure it will do any good at this point, but we have to try. Now is the time to start asking the tough questions; it's not the time to start drinking the Kool-aid. We hated that when Republicans did it, and if we do the same, we are proving the only difference between the two parties is ideology. Dems will lose in 2010 and maybe 2012, and we'll have nobody to blame but our own damn selves.

Let's plan on a good yak soon!

You having a BBQ?

BBQ'd Yak sounds delish!

Of course Yak have to be ordered special from Tibet and that can take a while plus they take like a coupla days to cook properly if yer doing a big one so best get a move on.

Wots that?

Not that kinda Yak?

K, Spud's not particular.

How about Bratwurst?

Spud's heard that Lisa cooks up a mean mess of Bratwurst.

Yum! ^_^

Be Well.

/K, that's it fer the tater o doom fer now.
//Happy New Years everybody & all the best in 2010.
///Exiting the exacting Retort now as ya do
stage left.

LOL Spud!

Happy New Year!!

"But for crying out loud, how can you not scrutinize what is right in front of your eyes?"

Although I agree with that, it's odd that for the majority of Bush's administration, you and others fully supported Bush's policies (and most still do!) while others were telling you differently but ya'll didn't see it either.

And what causes me to shake my head, is that that phrase isn't being used by liberals to describe Obama, it's being used by the "religious" right who should know better and are soiling Christ by throwing that term around in reference to a mere man as an insult.
#41 | Posted by Lisa

......this incongrous habit of the religious right is something I have pointed out before......

.....the worst insult the religious seem capable of, is to call their opponent "religious" also.....

#83 Eberly "genuine hope for a positive future is a subset of the Messiah complex"

Wait - everyone should remain hopeless, are you saying?

Castigating the whimsical won't help anyone. Taking advantage of them, of course (which all politicians do to win elections), doesn't help either. I'm quite distraught with the running of this country, but I'm not going to just give up completely on its future.

Obama got me to start hoping for change, and I'm still hoping for change, it's just not aligned with what Obama and that fucking piece of shit Congress are doing.

I can here that ole coot at home now:

"Looky Lizzy, everytime I say something they run around like chickens with their heads cut off! Doesn't even need to be true!"

The more the WH and MSM give him the satisfaction of a response, the more emboldened the little sadist will become.

#85 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-31 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:sufferering from a scorching case of Obama Messiah Complex

maybe your dermatologist can write you a script for that little problem.

I love you girl!! Let's plan on a good yak soon!

You're on. After the New Year, let's do it.

Happy New Year, Corky! And many more. . . .

Maybe I should explain where I am coming from in my previous comment. I found out recently that the Senate health care bill is going to cost the state of NY a billion dollars a year in health care costs for Medicaid. This in a state that is already fiscally strained to the bone. Gov. Paterson said if something like the Senate version passes, the state will have to cut its reimbursement rates to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. by 15%. The House health care bill would actually save the state money in Medicaid costs. If the compromise bill doesn't lean more towards the House version, I am going to be pissed. Just because Obama takes Schumer and Gillibrand for granted, and for good reason, doesn't mean that the taxpayers in the state of NY should be screwed for the sake of Ben Nelson and the Dems desire to pass a health care bill at all costs. The perfect may be the enemy of the good, but the politically expedient is the enemy of the people. I'm telling you right now: a bad bill will come back to bite the Dems in the ass. Wake up, President Obama!

you and others fully supported Bush's policies

you just accused me of assigning a position that doesn't exist.

If I called you an Obama supporter out of line then accept my apology.

But you just assigned a position to me. If to hold a mirror up to my face for doing it to you then I deserve it.

" After the New Year, let's do it"

It's set in stone!!

You'll have to call me since I got a new cell phone and all my numbers weren't saved to the Sims...yours was one of them! Ugh!

doesn't mean that the taxpayers in the state of NY should be screwed for the sake of Ben Nelson and the Dems desire to pass a health care bill at all costs

Well, Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, etc. Why those with ties to the insurance industry and from small population states are the ones driving this debate is beyond me. Or maybe it's not: politics as usual. Putting lipstick on a pig. (And, no, this is not a Sarah Palin reference).

Wait - everyone should remain hopeless, are you saying?

certainly not. I am very hopeful. But then again, I always am...even when the dreaded repubs were in charge. It won't make a difference to me.

Perhaps I explained my position poorly.......I meant to communicate that someone who is hopeful for postive change isn't suffering from the Messiah Complex unless they ALSO are a shameless shill and blind to legitimate scrutiny of Obama.

you have to posses BOTH qualities to qualify for the label.

"......this incongrous habit of the religious right is something I have pointed out before...........the worst insult the religious seem capable of, is to call their opponent "religious" also"

And I have pointed out to you before....that although we are Christians, we are not perfect and do make mistakes. And by doing so, does not make us un-religious!

We are suppose to correct/rebuke each other with patience. That's how we help each other stay on our path.

Sounds good, Lisa. I'll charge up my cell phone and off we'll go! :-)

Sorry about my preceding rants. I havent post here in a while and have some bottled up opinions. LOL

"Wake up, President Obama"

Gal, the President did say he would only pass a budget neutral bill.

So lets not go off just yet.

but pressure has to be placed on him.

......are you calling Mr.Cheney "the most idiotic of idiots" ?......it would seem so.......

Likewise it sounds you are saying we need to identify Obama's mistakes and assign blame when you said:

but unless we identify what the mistakes were, including who made them and why, we will not be able to rectify the after effects of the failed policies.......

(It works both ways)

#22 | Posted by goatman

......I am certainly willing to call out Obama when he makes a mistake, but you seem to defend Republicans whether the defence is merited or not.......

.....that kind of blind, unthinking partisanship, is identical to the behavior of your Republican bosses in the House and Senate.......

Well, Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, etc. Why those with ties to the insurance industry and from small population states are the ones driving this debate is beyond me. Or maybe it's not: politics as usual. Putting lipstick on a pig. (And, no, this is not a Sarah Palin reference).

my wife doesn't follow politics very much and was asking me recently at bedtime watching the news of the significance of Ben Nelson's vote and what the dems gave him.

When I explained to her how this worked, she responded back with "so we have to pony up MORE because Nelson's State gets all of these benefits that we won't get?"

"that's right!"

she became enraged when learning how this process works.

suffice to say.....I didn't get any bedtime nookie.

And I have pointed out to you before....that although we are Christians, we are not perfect and do make mistakes. And by doing so, does not make us un-religious!
#99 | Posted by Lisa

.....I didn't say it was unreligious.......I said it was incongrous........

......but it would certainly make the impartial observor wonder, what is it that religious people feel is wrong, with being religious, that they would use it as an insult.......

Gal, the President did say he would only pass a budget neutral bill.

So lets not go off just yet.

but pressure has to be placed on him.

Good points, Klifferd. I guess my question is: budget neutral for whom? The federal government, the states or both?

Gal, the President did say he would only pass a budget neutral bill.

In his campaign and recently as this summer he specifically said he wouldn't sign a bill unless it had a public option in it.

www.politifact.com

#103 LOL Eb, maybe you should make it a New Year's resolution to stop watching the late night news!

maybe you should make it a New Year's resolution to stop watching the late night news!

she won't let me watch porn.

maybe we will compromise with ESPN.

#98 Eberly

I thought that's what you meant, just wanted to clarify. You know, I'm not entirely against the term "Obama Messiah Complex" (all three words needed), but flat-out calling him the "Messiah" is just too over-the-top as it seems to imply something more messed up, thus it comes off as overly harsh, thus, less likely to wake somebody with Obama Messiah Complex from their trance.

Partisan hackery is killing us. Polarizing ideologues, like Cheney, need to be covered less and less. But they have their own shows, their own editorial columns in the NYT, because that's what makes the money (Adam Smith: FAIL).

Eb,

Hmm, from the link you posted:

"Every single criteria for reform that I put forward is in this bill," Obama said. "It is true that the Senate version does not have a public option, and that has become, I think, a source of ideological contention between the left and the right. But I didn't campaign on a public option. I think it is a good idea. But as I said in that speech on Sept. 9 (on health care), it is just one small element of a broader reform effort. And so we don't feel that the core elements to help the American people that I campaigned on and that we've been fighting for all year have been compromised in any significant way."

That's not the way I remember it. I seem to recall him saying something like "a robust public option." Now that's being massaged into "just one small element"? He was for a public option and against individual mandates. Now he is for individual mandates and is willing to forego a public option. Say it isn't so, Mr. President. I take him at his original word: We need a public option to keep down costs and to keep the insurance companies honest. I was never a big backer of individual mandates, but without a public option, I oppose it outright.

I know a lot of liberals are upset with Obama over Afghanistan, but I think what he is doing there is more in keeping with what he said he would do. I also don't think we should dismantle a country and then walk away without trying to fix it. To say nothing of the terrorist threat that could re-emerge in that country if we exit and leave a power vacuum there. Me, I'm more upset with Obama over this proposed health care package. On the ecomomy, the verdict is still out. I do think he helped the country avert an economic disaster. There is obviously still a lot of work to do getting people back to work. I think the stimulus package has worked to an extent and am waiting to see how the rest of it pans out. I guess if I had to grade his first year in office, I'd give him a B+, but I'll lower his grade if something like the Senate health care plan passes.

"......but it would certainly make the impartial observor wonder, what is it that religious people feel is wrong, with being religious, that they would use it as an insult."

IMO they are using that in objection to what they believe are others treating Obama as the Messiah (which from what I have seen, they are not doing). It's not that they think it's wrong to be religious.

I don't believe liberals are treating/behaving like Obama is the Messiah.

Liberals just have hope for a better country which is exactly what republicans do when one from their party is elected. Republicans took it to the extreme though, insisting liberals are treating Obama on the same level as our Messiah.

It's ridiculous and I feel it's blasphemous.

I know a lot of liberals are upset with Obama over Afghanistan, but I think what he is doing there is more in keeping with what he said he would do.

#110 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2009-12-31 11:51 AM

That's right Gal, it's EXACTLY what he said he would do, despite extreme right or left attempting to pretend otherwise.

from Obama's campaign page:

Obama's Stance on Iraq
Barack Obama will work with his military commanders to responsibly end the war in Iraq. Obama will refocus our resources on al Qaeda in Afghanistan and finish the fight with the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11.
LEARN MORE

www.barackobama.com

So, while lilaWol/hallichainy left Afghanistan with about 10K US troops for half a decade to invade/occupy a country that did not attack us, some might say DITHERING in the country that sheltered those who DID attack us, Obama is doing EXACTLY what he said he would do when he campaigned for potus.

anytime obama wants to get the liberal mind off the fucking he gave them on health care he brings up bush or dickey,does the trick every time.

Cheney needs to shut the fuck up. He doesn't HAVE TO, but he really should.-Alexandrite

Sure, but I bet you didn't mind it at all when Carter or Clinton criticized Bush. It happened a lot too, especially from Carter. I bet you were at the head of the line cheering it on.

#114

Same shit, yes, but Carter and Clinton aren't nearly the war criminal that is Cheney.

HOAs have to be a "liberal" concept dont you think?

If you're going to "fire back" at Cheney, you'd better make sure you don't miss. That dude carries guns and once shot his friend in the face. What do you think he'd do to people he *doesn't* like?

.that kind of blind, unthinking partisanship, is identical to the behavior of your Republican bosses in the House and Senate.......

Actually, skizzy, my boss is one of the few democrats on this rig. He's hard core, too. I believe the only political position he has is mayor pro-tem of the small suburb of Austin he lives in.

My other boss on the other crew is a hardcore Republican, however. But he has not been elected to the House or Senate. I honestly don't know what gave you that odd idea.

Cheney must have hit the nail on the head for the White House to get their panties so in a bunch over his comments.

Just retorting a stupid statement. #62 Lisa this is for you.

'Farrakhan on Obama: 'The Messiah is absolutely speaking'
'Barack has captured the youth,' will bring about 'universal change'

------------------------------
------------------------------
--------------------
Posted: October 09, 2008
8:03 pm Eastern

2009 WorldNetDaily

Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, another powerful Chicago-based political figure associated with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and other long-time associates of Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama, is leaving no doubt about what he thinks of the leader in the campaign for the White House.

He says when Obama talks "the Messiah is absolutely speaking."

You can watch it for yourself on a newly posted YouTube video.'

This was pasted from WorldNetDaily. Took less than a minute to find the 'Messiah' reference AND Who Said It Louis Farrakhan who is a righty .... no no no certainly a lefty. Now Farrakhan has stated other places that he doesn't believe that Obama Is the messiah for sure but is directed from God. That is from Wikipedia. LOOK IT UP.

But to topic. Cheney just makes most left leaners crazy. But let's get somthing straight Reality is past due in American politics. I don't wish to spend the time to rebut all the goofiness that I've read in this thread. But The easiest thing to rebut is this: Obama IS President. His Administration is in charge. Therefore whatever happens Is his fault. What happened during Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush presidencies' ARE Their respectative Faults. I'm not saying it isn't worth understanding and pointing out the faults but when it isn't productive STOP.

Happy New Year to all!!!

anytime obama wants to get the liberal mind off the fucking he gave them on health care he brings up bush or dickey,does the trick every time.
#113 | Posted by semtex111

.....Obama did not bring up the Dick, the Dick came up by itself, reared its ugly Head, and spewed it's Orgiastic venom........

I honestly don't know what gave you that odd idea.
#118 | Posted by goatman

........your utter lack of balance........

........your utter lack of balance........

What lack of balance? Ideologically, I am far more balance than you? Want to do some tally sheets and see?

Ideologically, I am far more balance than you? Want to do some tally sheets and see?
#123 | Posted by goatman

.......right......

.....please name three crimes the Bush/Cheney administration committed......

.....please name three crimes the Bush/Cheney administration committed......

I must've missed the trial, so I can't answer.

Besides, what does that question have to do with having an ideologogical balance?

what does that question have to do with having an ideologogical balance?
#125 | Posted by goatman

......you are deeply biased towards Republicans......

you are deeply biased towards Republicans......

Wrong again, schizzy. (I do grow weary of correcting you) I am right of center on some issues, left of center on others, and despise the Republicans and Democrats. I've stated that many times.

you are deeply biased towards Republicans......

Funny, I didn't know the republican hated Bush and Rush. I din't know they are for legalization of pot. I didn't know the are against prayer in school and display of religious icons in government buidings. I didn't know they were pro abortion. I didn't know they were against the war in Iraq. I didn't know they voted more frequently for democrats than their own party. I didn't know they were environmentalists as I am on all the above issues

Thanks for updating me, schizzy, but I'd really like to see proof of thesethings.

but I'd really like to see proof of thesethings.
#128 | Posted by goatman

......the proof is in the pudding.......

....you are pudding up defences for that Crime Family, where no reasonable person would.......

....you are pudding up defences for that Crime Family, where no reasonable person would.......

???

Which crime family am I defending? You are getting more and more obscure and off track as the night progresses

Which crime family am I defending?

......Bushco........

You are getting more and more obscure and off track as the night progresses

......it's New Years Eve.....I've gotten into the suds......

......wait till midnight, I'll be comparing Heiddiger, with Camus' ideas about Neitsczhe.......

......Bushco........

I'm not defending Bush. I am defending the truth of history. Speaking of which, what are his 'crimes'? I honestly don't remember him being indicted and going to trial much less being convicted of anything. But I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll correct me if I am.

...but back to the original point.....

.....I maintain that you have a strong pro-Republican bias, one that does not allow you to judge the Repub brass even handedly.......

......so to judge your balance, I asked you to name three crimes that the Bush administration committed, should be easy, but if you are unable even to name them, then it would clearly show that you are unreasonably biased towards them.......

Maddow documents and chronicles the inconsistencies and hypocritical response of Cheney's attack on Obama with Cheney and the GOP's record. Transcript and video:

www.dailykos.com

.....I maintain that you have a strong pro-Republican bias,

Well, you are clearly wrong (something I'm sure you are used to and have hardened yourself against) since I hate Bush and Rush. I am not a Palin fan (but I wouldn't kick her out of bed). I am for legalization of pot. I am against prayer in school and display of religious icons in government buidings. I am pro abortion. I am against the war in Iraq. I vote more frequently for democrats than their own party. I am an environmentalist

As I said, your notion of what a republican is is indeed one of the straner one's I've seen, schizzy, but you are entitled to it, crazy as it is.

.....on the question of reasonable vs. unreasonable bias.......

.....I thought Obama was the best man for the job, still think he is a better choice than McCain, so I continue to support him in general......

.....one of the things he did wrong, was that he asked the pharma-rapist industry in for a secret chat, and he made a deal with them.......

....not knowing the type of deal, I cannot say that it is a criminal conspiracy to protect their raping of the sick, but I can only assume that it is, otherwise why have such a secret meeting, reminiscent of Bush & big oil writing the EPA......

.....Americans pay two to three times the going rate for drugs, because of this high level collusion, I am disappointed that it is continuing under Obama....... the collusion may even be criminal.....but of course, none of the parties are going to turn themselves in......


Maddow documents and chronicles the inconsistencies and hypocritical response of Cheney's attack on Obama with Cheney and the GOP's record. Transcript and video:

www.dailykos.com

I think you'll find some fact checking of this on Rush Limbaugh's website.

I asked you to name three crimes that the Bush administration committed, should be easy, but if you are unable even to name them,

Schizzy, I was sincere upthread when I said I don't remember them going to trial and being convicted of a crime. If you think my not recalling a trial which I am 99.99999999% sure didn't take place makes me a republican, again, that is your right.

But it is a crazy conjecture. I'm getting more and more used to seeing crazy come from you, though.

Who is cheney?

Speaking of which, what are his 'crimes'?
#132 | Posted by goatman

......where do I begin.......

....1. The Iraq War.
....2. The Outing of the CIA agent.
....3. Abu Ghraib
....4. Guantanamo Bay
....5. The Torture Memos

.....I could be here all night, but a crime of ommision that I hold Obama responsible for, is his lack of willingness to set up a commission to investigate crimes under Bushco, Obama is trying to be non-partisan, and to appear non-partisan, but a lot of good it's gotten him so far.......

Schizzy, I was sincere upthread when I said I don't remember them going to trial and being convicted of a crime.
#138 | Posted by goatman

.......scooter.......

.....but does one have to be tried and convicted in order to have committed a crime ?.......

....1. The Iraq War.
....2. The Outing of the CIA agent.
....3. Abu Ghraib
....4. Guantanamo Bay
....5. The Torture Memos

So when were the trials and subsequent convictions, schizzy? I keep telling you I missed them. Surely you could help me out with some dates or links here.

.....but does one have to be tried and convicted in order to have committed a crime ?.......

Do you not adhere to the maxim "Innocent until proven guilty" or is that tenet party based for you?

Who is cheney?
#139 | Posted by richardrhine

......he is a character from the Wizard of Oz, that was edited out of the final cut of the movie.....

.....like the Cowardly Lion, he was afraid to go into battle himself, lied compulsivly, shot his friends in the head, and did not have a heart, but it turns out in the end that he did not need one, because he was of the Rhee Publik An tribe......

Mayb if Obama would quit saying "Bush & Cheney" Bush & Cheney would quit saying "Obama"

#10 | Posted by goatman

Funny thing about Cheney.

Virtually every time he mentions the previous administration, he refers to it as the "Bush/Cheney Administration". I do not recall any other administration referred to that way. Certainly not Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, or even Clinton. Quick, who was Nixon's first VP, or Ford's?

Cheney shows he's still just an insecure little man who is every bit as much a publicity whore as Balloon Boy's parents.

Do you not adhere to the maxim "Innocent until proven guilty" or is that tenet party based for you?
#143 | Posted by goatman

......not when a million people die because of your crime......

.....whether or not Bushco members ever face trials, they will have still committed the crimes.......

.......we know what they did.......

......not when a million people die because of your crime......

I'll respect the tenets of our legal system and leave emotion out of it.

.....whether or not Bushco members ever face trials, they will have still committed the crimes.......

If so, they would have been indicted and brought to trial.

Again, I'll stick to our current legal system and leave vigilantism style emotion out of the debate.

.....but again, your deflections and denial of criminal responsibility on their behalf, is the clearest indicator of your lack of balance.......

If so, they would have been indicted and brought to trial.

Again, I'll stick to our current legal system and leave vigilantism style emotion out of the debate.

#149 | Posted by goatman

........see......you defend the indefensible.......

.....you are a partisan........

So when were the trials and subsequent convictions, schizzy? I keep telling you I missed them. Surely you could help me out with some dates or links here.
#142 | Posted by goatman

.....I said Scooter didn't I ?......a conviction there......

....let's hear your apalogia for that one........

....... it was only a little crime, barely a crime, hardly worth mentioning that a senior member of the administration was found guilty....

.....do I smell a Clinton deflection coming ??

but again, your deflections and denial of criminal responsibility on their behalf, is the clearest indicator of your lack of balance

I would think that my willingness to let the legal system operate as designed would make me appear more balanced than your emotional desire to hang someone without a trial.

Yet another point on which we'll just have to agree to disagree upon. No need for us to beat it to death

........see......you defend the indefensible.......

???

I defend nothing except a person's right to have a fair trial by jury before conviction. As I said, you admit you disagree. No need to continue flogging this horse.

......not when a million people die because of your crime......
I'll respect the tenets of our legal system and leave emotion out of it.
#148 | Posted by goatman

.....I'm not being emotianal.......

......Bush started a war on fake evidence, he knew it was false pretenses.......

......and a million Iraqis, plus 4 thousand Americans, died.....

.......I would say that's a crime, whether or not he and his followers are ever put on trial, it is still a crime .....

.I said Scooter didn't I ?......a conviction there......

Then he is a criminal and belongs in prison.

I defend nothing except a person's right to have a fair trial by jury before conviction. As I said, you admit you disagree. No need to continue flogging this horse.
#154 | Posted by goatman

......looks like your boss is going to get away with this one....unless one of the European courts get him......Obama seems too spineless to do what's right in this case......lucky for the criminal Republicans who engaged in this massive crime.......

.......I would say that's a crime, whether or not he and his followers are ever put on trial, it is still a crime .....

I know. You've already mentioned that a few times.

looks like your boss is going to get away with this one....

???

.....a million people killed for no reason.......

......I'm checking out.....if you're still working tonite....best of the New Year......if not....have a good evening partying......

if you're still working tonite....best of the New Year......

Happy New Year to you too, skizz

Douche Cheney is now whining that this underwear bomber will be tried in a Federal court, yet he claimed it a victory when his administration tried the shoe bomber in a federal court.

What's with the republicans thinking that people won't remember these things?

Former Vice President Dick Cheney accused President Barack Obama on Tuesday of "trying to pretend we are not at war" with terrorists, pointing to the White House response to the attempted sky bombing as reflecting a pattern that includes banishing the term "war on terror" and attempting to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center.

Read more: www.politico.com

Trying to pretend we're not at war???

Cheney is trying to pretend nobody knows he's raking in the spoils of war from his company prior to being PRESIDENT of the USA.

Hopefully the diseased old bastard will keep being an attention whore... It's gonna haunt him sooner or later...

Hopefully sooner..

Hey skizziks Bush also helped to free how many people? By the way a million dead Iraqias? Really? ohhhh those were the mass graves that Saddam put in place. Several other Government intelligence agencies reported the same FACTs that Bush used to make decisions. During the deliberation of Bush and Congress and the american people, about going to war, Saddam moved and/or buried the vast bulk of his weapons of mass destruction. (Hey Am I the only one who thinks the Empire Strikes Back theme music should be playing when the WMD is written or said?) Most WMDs went to Syria. Bush also said in a couple (was going to write several but wasn't sure I could back it up) speeches that WMD's were just part of the reasoning for taking out Saddam. Remember WMD's were found several times. Just not nuclear weapons. Oh for the Libs frothing at their mouths If it was a war for oil WE would be bathing in it.

'....1. The Iraq War.
....2. The Outing of the CIA agent.
....3. Abu Ghraib
....4. Guantanamo Bay
....5. The Torture Memos'

From #139

I think I've answered #1 very briefly

Valerie Plame outed herself. She told friends and acquaintances. If your a secret spy you don't even tell your mother. However Wikipedia has a more or less fair article about this. READ IT. Here's an excerpt "On July 14, 2003, Washington Post journalist Robert Novak effectively ended Valerie Plame's career with the CIA (from which she later resigned in December 2005) by revealing her identity as a CIA operative in his column." Which means that if anyone 'outed' her other than herself then it would be a journalist who doesn't, apparently, think you should not publish articles about CIA spies. (One would think a poisoned needle zooming in on his jugular would have come to mind therefore causing him to run from 'story' ..... or that since she's still kicking is proof she was a bureaucrat.)

Abu Ghraib. The panty incident PLEASE stop it. I don't think Bush told the military to show the Gitmo gang their bush. HELLO.

Guantanamo Bay (I usually refer to it as Gitmo as an easy reference from the base verses the prison.) I assuming you mean the prison Right? Do you REALLY want these terrorist to be HERE. Seriously. Fine tell Obama that you're willing to take a few into your home.

Torture Memos. FINE I'll pay for your ticket to Ethopia or Egypt or North Korea or Syria or Iran or and then you can ask our enemies whether panties on the head, slept or sensory depriviation, water boarding (Navy Seals go through that) etc etc et al are torture. First they'll laugh (you won't need the interpetor for that one .... well maybe you will) then before they CUT your head off, while your conscious, they'll educate you on torture. Those torture memos were in place to use as guidelines for what was acceptable interrogation methods and to give limits. Duh

Anoether rtard that depends on made up "fact" and non-logical conclusions. I miss intelligent Conservatives.

I think I've answered #1 very briefly
....#164 | Posted by JasonSmiles

......but not accurately.......

......you are justifying crimes, because you support the criminals who perpetrated them......

.....but don't despair, you were just one of a nation of simpletons who were taken advantage of, to garner support, based on cliches and bumper sticker logic.....it's not your fault you are unable to reason your way through the haze of lies, but should you ever wish to sue your school board for the appaling lack of results in your education, rest assured that you have a good case, and my total support......

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