Should people fleeing to the U.S. to escape persecution and torture be treated as suspected criminals and terrorists? That was the policy under GWB following 9-11. Now President Obama has re-introduced the traditional handling of cases involving asylum seekers. Namely, they are paroled freely into U.S. society pending determination on the merits of the asylum application. Such administrative court determinations can take many years to finalize.

Personally, I agree with President Obama's decision in this matter on humanitarian grounds. But I suspect many racists and xenophobes will disagree.

Well Mod ---

That is so Alinsky of you to call anyone who disagrees with this policy racists and xenophobes.

You must be proud....

Why not put some money to fixing the conditions--or send them back.

Wait until Obama and the idiots in congress put out their immigration bill.

We are screwed.

But I suspect many racists and xenophobes will disagree.

I suspect many non-racists and non-xenophobes disagree as well.

YOU LIE!

Until 9-11 asylum seekers customarily were paroled into the community pending review of their applications. GWB's Administration took advantage of 9-11 to discourage asylum seekers by treating them like criminals and locking them up for years at a time. This change back to the pre-911 way of doing business is more humane and just. Clearly, we do not wish to be incarcerating people fleeing torture, civil war and persecution.

We are screwed.

Speak for yourself, Murphy why don't you?

Being all smart and everything, I approve of anything that keeps those filthy Mexicans out of here.

--Moder8's Pompous Brother

Personally, I agree with President Obama's decision in this matter

#1 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-12-29 08:01 PM

Just hang on to that and cut n paste it... You won't have to wear out your fingers.....We all know you're a moderate.....

Is anybody here who wasn't descended from an immigrant???

"Is anybody here who wasn't descended from an immigrant???"

Well, some of my DNA immigrated at least 10,000 years ago.

We are all from Africa.

I know, ZAT, and we are all on "Planet Earth" but you'd hardly know it.

Are you rightwingers really stupid enough not to understand the difference between immigrants and asylum seekers? Cuz that's the only explanation (other than blind hatred of foreigners) that I can see for opposing this change in policy.

SITDOWN

"Is anybody here who wasn't descended from an immigrant???"

Well, 7/8 of me did and the other 1/8 didn't.

But I'll go along with Obama. In fact, I hope he has teams of people pouring over everything George Bush did, with an eye toward making this country sane again.

Any immigration lawyer were tell their client to seem asylum. I have no problem with Mexicans. They work harder than union members. I do have a problem with just letting anyone in the country that claims persecution without first looking into their background.

I have no problem with Mexicans. They work harder than union members.

The ones you pick up at the Shell station at University and Tennessee in McKinney do a hell of a job for $8/hr, tuna sandwiches for lunch, a pack of smokes, and all the lemonade they can drink. I've gotten a lot of brush cleared, painting done, etc. from them. Pick one about 30 years old and wears well worn work boots.

Pick one about 30 years old and wears well worn work boots.

...and fire the ones who wear purple SEIU shirts.

Goatman I was half attempting to pick a fight but the illegals I have hired work their asses off and do a very good job. I usually paid them for jobs. I paid one guy $500 to put down wood floors in my bedroom. It took him about 8 hours. I will say I have had better experience with the illegals I hired as opposed to contractors. My language skills have gotten better too.

I will say I have had better experience with the illegals I hired as opposed to contractors. My language skills have gotten better too.

Same here. Speaking of language, I had a couple of them over clearing brush once. My son had a pet goat we named "Cabrito" which of course is that dish made of baby goat. I was yelling at the goat once and called out its name and the eyes of those Mexicans lit up. I think they thought I was going to slaughter the goat and have him for lunch or something. But alas, it was just tuna sandwiches.

Speaking of SEIU, I met Andy Stern at the Irish festival in Jersey City over the Summer. He was with the soon to be indicted Mayor of Jersey City. I yelled at him what are you doing here. The Irish belong to real unions. He started saying something about the Irish being elitist and people were threatening to dump beer on him. It was rather funny. I never heard the Irish being elitist before. He better keep that quiet. The Italians may get pissed.

I never had goat but I see it in the supermarket. I am tempted to try it. Maybe I will make a stew. I ate dog when I was in South Korea

I will say I have had better experience with the illegals I hired as opposed to contractors. My language skills have gotten better too.

The guys I had here doing some work inside the house and on the outside windows the last few weeks were Mexican and Filipino with a Filipino boss. I know some Spanish but got my first lessons in speaking Tagalog. Most spoke English to varying degrees from almost flawless to hardly any but the work got done and that's all I cared about.

For Timbci -

Curry lends itself well with goat. But the slow roasted baby goat dish cabrito is great.

I think we should take the asylum seekers and imigrants from nations with few freedoms, train them in how to crate a democracy and send them back with arms and advisors.

Now if only we could figure out how to create a democracy that encourages people to be self reliant and responsible for their own actions.

This new Obama policy will open up a new easy way for Al Quaeda to attack the US. Good job Barry.

Interesting commentary on illegals, made me think about some of the inefficiencies re: the "official" way of doing things. Too many laws, regulations and shit can actually impede progress.

It's about time the Obama administration fix this terrible situation.

Abdulmutallab should be returned to his homeland or Yemen with a VERY stern warning (perhaps in writing) that he never to try do attempt this bombing stunt again. This severe example will certainly deter anyone else that tries to blow up a US plane that they too will be harshly castigated by an indignant Obama administration.

38531: wtf are you talking about? Do you have any understanding what asylum is all about? Or are you just looking for any ill informed angle from which to take a potshot at our President?

Wait until Obama and the idiots in congress put out their immigration bill.

We are screwed.

#2 | Posted by MURPHY

I would guess you are a bigger idiot than anyone in congress.

Posted by moder8
"Personally, I agree with President Obama's decision"

"from which to take a potshot at our President?"
#28 | Posted by moder8

"under GWB following 9-11"
He wasn't "our" President?

"Just hang on to that and cut n paste it... You won't have to wear out your fingers.....We all know you're a moderate....."
#8 | Posted by Washboard

Your hypocritical reputation precedes you Moder.

What hypocrisy? That I support our President's decision to reverse the policy of the previous Administration? I've been pretty consistent about this all along.

This is the Thread where the "freedom" defending, the "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" gang, the ones who swear they defend our ideas of justice as superior to all others ------ demonstrate they are insincere in this belief.

It seems that they don't have the stomach to actually demonstrate their faith and principle ----- and given the opportunity, immediately start sounding like the despotic regimes they claim we are at risk from.

Either you believe in our system and demonstrate such to the outside world, or you don't. You are either with democracy and justice, or against it.
It's either our system or theirs ----- and it's become obvious that many on the "right" would prefer a dictatorship style justice system to the one we currently employ (ie Hate America)

Q. "Should people fleeing to the U.S. to escape persecution and torture be treated as suspected criminals and terrorists?"

A. That depends upon whether their claims of torture and persecution can be validated. Otherwise this system is flawed and dangerous.

Concerning BEING a humanitarian: I'll put the safety of US citizens over the safety of a foreigner any and every day of the week.

I think we should take the asylum seekers and imigrants from nations with few freedoms, train them in how to crate a democracy and send them back with arms and advisors.

But we already provided the dictators with arms and advisors. That's why the civilians are fleeing in the first place.

Back in the '80s I represented dozens of asylum seekers. They were mostly refugees from Guatemala and El Salvador persecuted simply for living in the wrong village or being falsely accused of being aligned with either the leftwing militias or the rightwing militias. The stories (and scars they bore) of rape, torture and murder still haunt me. Now, of course, not being high profile people, there were no documents or newspapers articles which "prove" the suffering these people suffered. Yet, given all the anecdotal evidence, as well as the vivid descriptions they were able to share, I have zero doubt as to the veracity of the vast majority of claims. The notion that our government might lock such people up for years pending review of their asylum applications is horrifying bordering on cruel.

#3goatman

Touche! Said perfectly.

JM

Actually, #3 is stupid. Nobody has claimed that only racists and xenophones opposed the change. Pointing it out is merely pointing out the obvious. And as I learned long ago, pointing out the obvious merely insults the readers intelligence.

#35 - Great post. I recently met the younger brother of a young man who was murdered in Guatemala. He said the army just came to their village and killed all the men. It would be a step to repair America's reputation as a haven if these new plans could be implemented. It would be even better if Americans could feel nonthreatened by their federal government again. Surprisingly, there have been tiny advances already in that regard.

This one makes sense on humanitarian grounds, but does pose a security risk. Will only take one terrorist getting in to screw up the whole thing.

Just seems like we are now willing to sacrifice security for humanitarian, diplomatic and convenience reasons.

I personally don't care, but can see why others would...

As long as we also stop giving aid to the countries where they are fleeing from, I am with the change, but some support for their claim and background is a must. Possibly a sponser system? This country is going to have problems allowing so many illegals across over the last two decades. We are not a safe country without safe boarders and a country that will soon be influenced by more illegals turned legal if the all mighty "O" has his way will surely spell SOCIALISM. Vote the illegal supporters out or pay the price, I mean have our children and children's children pay the price. This is so basic that it frustrates me that there is such a strong support on one side.

This will bring almost all of us down except those in power.. Start voting for our future people.

Did Obama get foreign student status benefits?? Come clean please?

Get rid of all crooks and Maxine Waters "socialist agenda" politicians. Vote them all out. Tax cheats and phonies right & left.

2010 can't wait...

Just seems like we are now willing to sacrifice security for humanitarian, diplomatic and convenience reasons.

There are two types of people who die for freedom and liberty. There are people who die fighting against tyranny, and there are people who die because safety cannot be guranteed in a free society.

"Concerning BEING a humanitarian: I'll put the safety of US citizens over the safety of a foreigner any and every day of the week.

#33 | Posted by UpL8"

Fucktard, ever hear of the term "reciprocity"?

"Yet, given all the anecdotal evidence, as well as the vivid descriptions they were able to share, I have zero doubt as to the veracity of the vast majority of claims."

Then those people need to rise up against their tormentors and demand their human rights be respected; or, if that doesn't work, then destroy their tormentors.

Their are enough humanitarian causes (rape, child abuse, hunger, exploitation) within our own borders that need to be addressed.

I believe in taking care of our own first. Doesn't mean I'm blind to the plight of others, but "my own fellow Americans", of all religions and colors, come first.

I'm done talkin' now.

#1 Says "Personally, I agree with President Obama's decision in this matter on humanitarian grounds. But I suspect many racists and xenophobes will disagree."

This Big Brother adorer conveniently condemns anyone who dares question anything THE ONE does or anything HE says. 1984 anyone?

This kind of messianic adoration of our mortal president is very scary.

Fucktard, ever hear of the term "reciprocity"?

#42 | Posted by furio

Reciprocity? No, my dear, I do not need anything from another country, nor do I feel my country needs anything, or should be dependent in any way upon any other country.

I've been complimented by the best and insulted by the worst. Fucktard? That's a new one.

Furio? Is that short for furious?

UPL8: Your point is actually well taken. We of course should always have our first priority be the well being of our fellow citizens. (Which is the main reason I so strongly support President Obama's healthcare initiative.)
I once represented a woman from Guatemala whose mother, father, husband and two children were murdered in front of her. (One child was a baby less than one year old who was bayonetted to death.) She was also gang raped by numerous Guatemalan militiamen and left for dead in the jungle hut where her family had eked out a living. The notion of her rising up against her tormentors is absurd. I freely and gladly offer asylum to those impoverished persecuted campesinos who manage to escape the horror and make it up to the United States.

38531: See #37. 'Nuff said.

"The notion of her rising up against her tormentors is absurd."

Of course the poor woman had no home protection, no communications to monitor the government activities, no right to bear arms...nor access to firearms; I would not want to live like that.

I don't want to eke out a living...that is why I want our needs within our borders put in the forefront. Take care of those at home and then take care of others and show by example.

That's why I like my Constitution, especially my 2nd Amendment rights so that IF any should ever decide to torment me or those I love I will be able to destroy them.

As a woman, and a parent, the rape of your client makes me want to destroy those men who murdered her family and raped her.

However, changing the asylum immigration protocol can lead to bigger security issues for the safety of our citizens. We cannot be the world's safe haven.

Are you rightwingers really stupid enough not to understand the difference between immigrants and asylum seekers? Cuz that's the only explanation (other than blind hatred of foreigners) that I can see for opposing this change in policy.

#12 | Posted by moder8

I hope you don't assume that everyone who want to close our borders to future immigrants is racist, xenophobic or blindly hates foreigners.

I just want Americans to be put first and then we can help others. I don't want current administration to set in place another protocol that may, now or in the future, become a detriment to American's safety and freedom.

I think this issue needs to be well thought out, and voted upon because it affects all of us and there are loopholes in the current measure.

The underwear bomber is now seeking asylum from his alter ego that BBQ'd his balls... OO

I hope you don't assume that everyone who want to close our borders to future immigrants is racist, xenophobic or blindly hates foreigners.

He does. Moder-h8 is a very binary person. It's one extreme or another with him. No shades of gray.

"Reciprocity? No, my dear, I do not need anything from another country, nor do I feel my country needs anything, or should be dependent in any way upon any other country.

I've been complimented by the best and insulted by the worst. Fucktard? That's a new one.

Furio? Is that short for furious?

#45 | Posted by UpL8 "

Well Fucktard you would equally accept other countries should do nothing to take care of US businesses, properties or citizens who reside around the world?

In case you weren't aware the US is extremely dependent on other countries to supply resources and products for the US to survive.

Various foreign companies and individuals also own extensive property and companies in the US. Should they also be left void of protection as well?

"I've been complimented by the best and insulted by the worst."

Great, Fucktard is a living cliche.

Is anybody here who wasn't descended from an immigrant???

#9 | Posted by sitdown

This is the most irrelevant and stupid comments that I see people make all the time. Who gives a shit who we are descended from? The fact of the matter is that most of the people in the USA were born in the USA. That makes them Americans by birth. It doesn't matter that their great-great-great-grandfather came over from Germany at one point. It doesn't mean one single thing and it certainly is no argument to be made about immigration. Take your irrelevant points to the Daily Kos where they will be lovingly accepted and approved of.

Same here. Speaking of language, -Goatman

This happens to be my biggest gripe about illegal immigrants. I work with illegals on a daily basis and the thing that pisses me off to no end is that they can't speak English. They've been here 10 years and can't speak a lick of it. And what really pisses me off is when they speak Spanish to me like I'm supposed to know what they are saying. I have no idea why they do that but they do. Maybe it's their idea of a joke, but I don't find it the least bit funny. Learn to speak the fucking language and I don't have problem with you.

Sitdown's great grandmammy immigrated from uranus.

#52 | Posted by furio

As I said, insulted by the worst. ;)

#51 Posted by Goatman

As I said, insulted by the stupidest ;)

"#52 | Posted by furio

As I said, insulted by the worst. ;)

#56 | Posted by UpL8 "

Don't worry Fucktard, your ignorance is great and should attract many more insults like flies to shit.

No, my dear, I do not need anything from another country

Well, except for your TV, computer, and clothes. And maybe your car too.

And what really pisses me off is when they speak Spanish to me like I'm supposed to know what they are saying.

Kind of like the way Americans speak English to Mexicans when they're in Mexico.

Spanish isn't a difficult language to learn, dude.

Kind of like the way Americans speak English to Mexicans when they're in Mexico.

It's not at all like that. We are there visiting and leave a week later with silly sombreros and silver trinkets. They are living here and working. Surely you see the difference?

Goat - I don't mean the tourists. I've spent quite a bit of time in Mexico and there are a lot of Americans that have retired there and expect everyone in the country to speak English.

#63 I see where you coming from. But again, the retirees bring a lot of money and create a lot of jobs. It's different than tourists as you say, but I still see a difference (as far as economical contribution) in the ex-pats in Mexico and the Mexicans here.

The Mexicans in Mexico do not have to go bi-lingual if they don't want to. Admittedly, they probably do in order to attract more American retirees, but the do not have to. However, in the USA, our schools, gov offices, etc. have to spend more of my tax dollars to go bi-lingual.

Spanish isn't a difficult language to learn, dude.

No, it's not. But it is a difficult one to listen to, IMO. I can read almost fluently, but when they talk as fast as they do, sometimes it's hard to tell when the last syllable of one word runs into the first syllable of the next.

Also, like any language, the idioms and accents are so varied it takes time to get them all.

When I was in Spain, I was laughed at more than once by the locals when I spoke (in their words) Mexican. LOL. It's kind of like listening to a Frenchman speak British English. He has a French accent and a subtle English one.

Personally, I agree with President Obama's decision in this matter on humanitarian grounds. But I suspect many racists and xenophobes will disagree.

#1 | Posted by moder8

How come all of the people that I know who sought asylum were not jailed? Where is the evidence that this is even remotely true? My personal experience says it's completely a lie.

This statement from the article is complete bullshit!

"Beginning next month, the Department of Homeland Security said those who arrive in the United States fleeing torture or persecution will no longer automatically be jailed. "

We know many Iranians who have sought asylum in the past 10 years. They were never jailed.

Also, like any language, the idioms and accents are so varied it takes time to get them all.

Spanish is pretty unique - it's spoken in so many places that there are tons of different dialects and regions with their own slang. I know what you mean about listening to it, though. It's hard to get used to Mexicans blazing along at a million miles an hour, using a bunch of slang that no foreign language teacher would dare teach you.

When I was in Spain, I was laughed at more than once by the locals when I spoke (in their words) Mexican.

Hell, even the Spanish have their own dialects. I've always wanted to visit Barcelona, but they speak a lot of Catalan there.

How come all of the people that I know who sought asylum were not jailed?

Probably because someone left something out of a story that speaks only in generalities. I don't know anyone who has sought assylum since Bush took office, but I imagine it depends on how and where you enter the country.

Cubans weren't jailed.one foot on the beach was always the rule

Wait until Obama and the idiots in congress put out their immigration bill.

We are screwed.

#2 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-12-29 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you really against an immigration bill? Do you just want more of the same inaction on this mater?

i think we should just get rid of the border let everyone who want's to come here come on in, although every other country does have a border and protect's it we should just open it up and when the job's are gone, no crying allowed and all the lib's that are for it should foot the bill not the rich rethug's as you say!