How much would you ne willing to bet that these people voted for Bush and McCain? Let's see who supports their decision to kick the 6 year old out of her home and place her in foster care.

How much would you ne willing to bet that these people voted for Bush and McCain?

I'll bet you $100 right now that you have no way of knowing by reading the article.

Do we have a deal, big mouth?

Goat I found it out indirectly who he contributed to.

$1,350 was given by people who identified their last name as "Wheeler" and first name as "Leland".
$0 to Republicans
$1,350 from 1 person to Democrats

Just in case you didn't want to click the link, Boob...

Cases like this one have been before the courts dozens of times. People who buy into retirement homes don't want a bunch of little kids running around.

Get over it. Old folks have rights too.

I guess it's ok for democrats to kill a fetus but not to kick a 6 year old out of an old folks home.

I remember as a kid, stopping at a campground called Gold-Coaster. I think in Saint Petersburg. We didn't stay. They said children had to be accompanied by an adult at all times and could only use the pool for four hours a day. The hours were not consecutive. Went to the state park, I think.

"How much would you ne willing to bet that these people voted for Bush and McCain?"

Not likely. Up to now the elderly have been major supporters of the democrats. They voted overwhelmingly for Dear Leader. Besides, if you read the Fair Housing Laws, what they are doing here is absolutely legal...not enheartening, but legal.

The little 6 year old girl looks like a real sweetheart. I'd be willing to adopt her -- or at least take her in until her grandparents worked out their situation. To put this child in a foster home when she has two loving grandparents is a crime.

They have a lawyer who took their case pro bono so maybe there will be some sort of resolution soon.

They have a lawyer who took their case pro bono so maybe there will be some sort of resolution soon.

They may have the compassionate factor on their side, but the law is definitely against them. I'm sure you know that, cc. A judge has to cede emotion to the cold hard line of the law.

I feel sorry for the girl, but honestly, if I paid the high price these senior communities command because I didn't want to be around kids, I'd be pissed.

If the parents want to keep the child they have to move out of the retirement home. It's that simple.

They've been trying to sell out, Mysterytoy...but with the housing slump, they can't even after cutting the price by nearly half. I think they should be allowed to stay until they sell.

If the age rule of the Lakes Homeowners Association is the rules state it is an "age 55 plus only" retirement community and anyone under the age of 18 yo can visit for a time period of no longer than 60 days, then why is her grandfather, now age 54, being allowed to live there either?

This case began in 2004 which would have made the child's grandfather age 49 at the time when he was living in this 55 plus retirement community.

My source is linked at the end of this article --

Kimberly Broffman moved in to Judie and Jim Stottler's Clearwater home when she was 6 months old in 2004, well before foreclosures started mounting in Florida. The move was only meant to be temporary the rules of the retirement community state that anyone under 18 cannot live there longer than 60 days but with the little girl's mother in and out of jail and coping with a drug problem, a court awarded Ms. Stottler custody of her granddaughter.

The local Homeowners Association insists the little girl must leave; Ms. Stottler says there is nowhere else for her to go, and they cannot afford to move unless the house sells.

"[The association doesn't] live under a rock. They know the housing situation, they know the economy," said Ms. Stottler, 62, while at work as a dietery assistant at an assisted living facility, where she earns $18,000 a year. "I've been trying to sell my home, but I can't drag somebody off the street to buy it."

Mr. Stottler, 54, is not working due to a disability....

A1

They've been trying to sell out, Mysterytoy...but with the housing slump, they can't even after cutting the price by nearly half. I think they should be allowed to stay until they sell.

Get this! I read a few more stories on this case which went into more detail. The grandparents are now being "discouraged" by the Homeowners Associations and neighbors from lowering sales price of their home any further because they are afraid if the sales price gets too low it "might result in bringing down the prices of the other homes in the neighborhood." Talk about nerve.

They can't win for losing!

How much would you ne willing to bet that these people voted for Bush and McCain? Let's see who supports their decision to kick the 6 year old out of her home and place her in foster care.

#1 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-29 04:09 PM

This case began in 2004 which would have made the child's grandfather age 49 at the time when he was living in this 55 plus retirement community.

Perhaps his wife is older and qualified the age requirement, and the husband, being over 18 was able to stay.

I'll bet you $100 right now that you have no way of knowing by reading the article.

Do we have a deal, big mouth?

#2 | Posted by pUnk bOy at 2009-12-29 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag: Calls women who report rape drug addicted whores, if he respects the accused.

You'd just pUnk out again. But there was never an offer to make a bet. I know reading comprehension is a weakness you have, so let me break down the words into smaller ones, and maybe you can pick up on what was said. I doubt it, but watching you pUnk out is always entertaining.

I asked the reader in general (not just you---you really aren't the center of the universe)--How much would you be willing to bet that these people voted for Bush and McCain? That means the reader should pick a number and state the number---but since it is impossible to determine who "these people" are, it is impossible to make a bet. Not all of the people who want to kick the kid out are on the video--I know you are too stupid to realize that, so I made it plain and simple---simple enough for even you to comprehend I hope. Since the many faces of the people who want the kid gone aren't even known, the question was rhetorical(look it up--I've given you enough education for one post---you should pay if you want more), therefore, there was no offer to bet--simply a question the reader could answer themself. Small enough words for you, stupid?

Just in case you didn't want to click the link, Boob...

#5 | Posted by American1st at 2009-12-29 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good--now prove he voted for Obama dUmMy---then prove everyone else voted dem also. Then see if you can find where I offered to make a bet. I think the boobish one is yourself. You and pUnk bOy simply can't read.

I asked the reader in general

I know what you asked. I asked if you wanted to take my bet.

Did that request scramble you wee little one-track mind? LOL

Mr. Leland Wheeler -- likely does not vote Republican. But I could be wrong.

#16 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-29 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

You could be right--who knows---he didn't contribute to Obama---during the primaries, many people said if Hillary wasn't the candidate, they would vote for McCain---no way of telling this guys thoughts---though pUnk bOy and Americalast seem to think they have Kreskin skills.

#20 | Posted by pUnk bOy at 2009-12-29 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag: dUmMy still doesn't get it.

Again--stupid---look up the word "Rhetorical". My post says it is impossible to tell, and simply asks the reader to speculate. What a mporon you are---how many times---how many ways--will I have to state this before you get it? The telling point---was to see who supported the decision on this thread--conservatives or liberals

though pUnk bOy and Americalast seem to think they have Kreskin skills.

???

You are the one who speculated about his party with your "want to bet . . " question, not I. If you don't believe me, find the button labeled "PGUP" on your keyboard and press it (you'll see the screen change) until you get to post #1. Read it.

Hope this helps refresh your failing memory and prevents further lies, bOoB.

Again--stupid---look up the word "Rhetorical

Again -- I made a challenge to you. Why this is freaking you out is beyond me. LOL

You are the one who speculated about his party with your "want to bet . . " question, not I. If you don't believe me, find the button labeled "PGUP" on your keyboard and press it (you'll see the screen change) until you get to post #1. Read it.

Hope this helps refresh your failing memory and prevents further lies, bOoB.

#23 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Calls women who report rape drug addicted whores, if he respects the accused.

I never said "want to bet" what a liar you are---what a true Piece of Shitstain on the Human race.

Again -- I made a challenge to you. Why this is freaking you out is beyond me. LOL

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

You "challenge" me to something I agree with? Your stupidity is truly amazing.

what a true Piece of Shitstain on the Human race.

At least I have a functioning brain. LOL

I never said "want to bet"

That's your best answer? That I paraphrase you LOL

That's your best answer? That I paraphrase you LOL

#28 | Posted by pUnk bOy at 2009-12-29 09:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

No--my answer is that you lie about what I said. You seem to make lying a habit with almost every post. I make a rhetorical statement, and you try to make it into an offer to bet. That is a lie. That makes you a liar. Liars are pUnk bOys.

Speaking of lies, where's the link that shows that the Piper Alpha burned hotter than the WTC, Mr. "I always provide links when asked"? LOL

Just another lie fro da bOoB.

Speaking of lies, where's the link that shows that the Piper Alpha burned hotter than the WTC, Mr. "I always provide links when asked"? LOL

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's your link stupid.

I'm getting tired of making you look like a fool.

???

I ask for a link to compare the relative temperatures of the Piper Alpha vs the WTC and you link to the drudge retort? This makes me look like a fool? LOL.

Anyway, you answer clearly says you got nothing. You have zero proof that the Piper Alpha burned hotter than the WTC.

How's that cup of STFU taste? LOL

See Post #75

I'm getting tired of making you look like a fool.

You tell me to look at post 75 on a thread that has 61 posts. Yep, that makes me look real foolish, bOoB. LOL

I'm getting tired of making you look like a fool.

Much like I got tired of schooling Lebron James...

You tell me to look at post 75 on a thread that has 61 posts. Yep, that makes me look real foolish, bOoB. LOL

#33 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

My mistake--sorry for the typo---try post #57, not #75. Of course, to not be able to figure it out shows your level of intelligence. I would rather have poor typing skills than be so stupid I couldn't figure out a simple typo.

Much like I got tired of schooling Lebron James...

#34 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-12-29 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

On what precisely? Math? Geography? Reading? Or is Lebron James superior to you in every way imaginable? Or are you just lying like pUnk bOy? Oh I get it--sarcasm, with no substance to back your loud mouth---as usual. Do you ever make a point? Hint--Rhetorical question.

;-)

Anyway, you answer clearly says you got nothing. You have zero proof that the Piper Alpha burned hotter than the WTC.

How's that cup of STFU taste? LOL

#32 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Post 57 clearly shows that Piper Alpha burned hootter than the WTC---your NU UHH response simply doesn't cut it. Try again---use some logic to refute #57 or STFU. Simple isn't it. Hint: NU UHHH won't work.

Waiting on you

;-)

I've heard both Republicans and Democrats call each other Nazi's.

Truth is...

if ever there was a valid comparison to Nazi's, it's Home Owner's Associations.

On what precisely?

See Post #57

#35 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Still nothing huh?

OK, we'll just assume that the petrol fire on the Piper Alpha burned at the same temperature as the WTC petrol fire since you can't back up your claim that they burned at different temperatures.

Thanks, bOoB.

Post 57 clearly shows that Piper Alpha burned hootter than the WTC---

???

Post 57 is clearly your speculation. WTF are you talking about? Are you implying that your speculation is to be taken as proof? Honestly, that is about the funniest thing you've come up with yet, bOoB. Really.

if ever there was a valid comparison to Nazi's, it's Home Owner's Associations.

And the onshore IT folks who regulate our internet access on the rig.

'folks who regulate our internet access'

Access to unfiltered internet is something for which I would raise arms.

Access to unfiltered internet is something for which I would raise arms.

It's the company's network. I have no say. And I do understand banning some of it such as the streaming video and audio. It eats up a lot of expensive satellite bandwidth and chokes up network services on the rig.

At least this thread didn't get too far off subject.

Instead of talking about a 6 yesr old, we have two six year olds talking to each other.

Post 57 is clearly your speculation. WTF are you talking about? Are you implying that your speculation is to be taken as proof? Honestly, that is about the funniest thing you've come up with yet, bOoB. Really.

#41 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-29 11:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

How about using some logic and refute the post. Show what you think is speculation and why.

Is it speculation that the Piper Alpha was burning in the open air?

Is it speculation that the Piper Alpha fire was fueled by high pressure fuel?

Is it speculation that the Piper Alpha fire was burning directly on the stucture? Is it speculation that there were three explosions on the Piper Alpha?

Is it speculation that the Piper Alpha burned for three hours after the last explosion before the collapse?

Is it speculation that the fire at the WTC was smoky and oxygen starved? Is it speculation that the WTC collapse in little more than an hour?

Is it speculation that the fire at the WTC was not under high pressure?

Is it speculation that the fire was not directed directly at the support beams?

Is it speculation that there was molten steel at the WTC?

Is it speculation that no molten steel was seen at Piper Alpha?

Exactly what speculation are you talking about?

Still no link showing the different temps, huh?

Still waiting on you! %%]{)#$

BuffaloBob and Goat -

I left a post for you guys with a couple of links re fire temps on the wrong thread. Don't know how good they even are, but for what's it's worth you'll find them in post #71 -

Still no link showing the different temps, huh?

Still waiting on you! %%]{)#$

#47 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-30 01:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

I guess you are simply incapable of reasonable debate or having a civilized discussion. You simply can not face reality or answer even the most basic questions.

As to the difference in temperature---Do you think a high pressure fire burning in the open air burns hotter than a limited fire in a smoky semi-enclosed area?

Do you think it is reasonable that they would both burn at the same temperature?

Do you think the fire at the WTC was concentrated on the support beams like the fire at Piper Alpha?

Can you give any reasonable answers? Can you answer the simple questions about what you consider speculation? Anything at all?

Still no link showing the different temps, huh?

Still waiting on you! %%]{)#$

I am President of my Condo Association and I like my power and I USE IT!!!!

No one challenges me because our rules are rather strict and I enforce them or should I say I fine them

If you get out of line, I fine you and then I tell you to shut up before I send the Sandman after you

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-30 01:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are a sad example of a human being. I feel sorry for you. You are no longer worthy of notice.

Thanks Califchris

Unfortunately, your post was wasted. If you look at Goatmans posts, you can easily see he is beyond all reason, and no matter what is posted, he only has one response. Nothing.

You are a sad example of a human being. I feel sorry for you. You are no longer worthy of notice.

Still no links, huh? If your speculations are as obvious as you imply, it should be a cinch to produce the links to back up your claim that the Piper Alpha burned hotter than the WTC. But you can't. What a surprise.

But feel free to continue with your mindless speculations.

Poor bOoB loses again. LOL

"No, the sheriff will. I will merely be the President of the Board who is trying to enforce the policies of our association that she agreed to when she moved in.

I would make sure that I had every single damn tv news station at the house when that sheriff tried to do that.

Very sad.

But unfortunately, it IS a retirement community and the law is on the side of neighbors.

It's a shame that those neighbors have no compassion and fail to understand that this is a temporary situation, the grandparents are trying to sell their home and just be patient until they do.

I hope someone reads about their situation and offers a solution, so this family can remain together.

Florida retirement community to evict 6 year old girl?

Florida Flag!

FTA: And the president of the homeowners association looks positively gleeful as he discusses the prospect of getting sheriffs to forcibly remove the small girl.

Total Farkin' Coont Flag.

Be Well.

I hope someone reads about their situation and offers a solution, so this family can remain together.

#57 | Posted by Lisa

Spud hopes so too.

Hopefully the ink from this story starts some wheels a'moving.

TY fer taking a rational, humane approach to the problem here and not just faux swearin' at the idjit in this piece, like wot Spud did.

Yer a good soul, Lisa.

And Spud is always appreciate yer contributions to this li'l dysfunctional family circle here at the ole Tort.

You prolly already knew this but it never hurts to re-iterate this stuff from time to time.

^_^

Be Well.

The article says she's lived there her whole life (i.e. 6 years). Why didn't the grandparents sell the house when they came into custody of the child? You have to ask for custody before it is given to you. I don't think the housing market had crashed yet 6 years ago.

That said, any freak who would initiate an eviction action to get rid of a 6 year old because "rules are rules" is a complete jagoff. It's possible the kid is a nuisance, but my guess is that the elderly residents are shocked when they see a kid walking around, then gossip about it since they have nothing else to do.

Very sad.

But unfortunately, it IS a retirement community and the law is on the side of neighbors.

It's a shame that those neighbors have no compassion and fail to understand that this is a temporary situation, the grandparents are trying to sell their home and just be patient until they do.

I hope someone reads about their situation and offers a solution, so this family can remain together.

sounds about right, my neighbors have a friendly dog that they let run loose, I could call the animal shelter and have it killed, but I look the other way...

Terrible story. While the family has the house on the market and is trying to move out, the retirement community should agree not to pursue eviction.

Stuff like this is why I dislike living under a homeowners association covenant.

If I am not mistaken FL homeowners associations were the ones trying to kick out a blind lady because they had a no pets rule and she had a guide dog. What made it worse was the no pet rule was put in place almost a year after she got the guide dog.

In that case the judge ruled in favor of the HOA however then rezoned her house so she was no longer in the neighborhood.

Stuff like this is why I dislike living under a homeowners association covenant.

I could tell you some stories we have the 4th reich controlling our neighborhood. What gets to me is how they selectivly enforce the laws.

I can't fathom why anyone would live under any home owners association.
Is that mainly a southern thing?

We have HOA in the waterfront condos (no towels hanging off the balcony, no furniture left on the deck, etc), and I can understand those, but that's condos.
Who in their right mind buys a house and lets somebody else control who lives in it and what you do with it? If they do know that going in, then what asshole has the nerve to go against the rules and then complain about it?

You're the dumbfucks that "bought in" in the first place.

I'd love to see a Condo forbid old farts from moving in. A freind lives in a big condo comples and the geriatric nazis make life miserable.

geriatric nazis

I love it! We are not even a retierment community in my place but they are the same ones making the neighborhood suck. Funny thing is they are raising dues to "beautify" the neighborhood but thing is the only beautification going on is in front of their houses. Wonder if it is going to go like the 2k assesment for paving went (hint our roads are still not repaved and that was 5 years ago)

The more I look around the more I think the eskimos had the right idea.

when they see a kid walking around, then gossip about it since they have nothing else to do....

Like you are doing right now Dethspud, get a job and stop your gossiping. How about expecting the mom to clean up her act and get off drugs and raise her own fucking kid instead of pawning her off on her parents? But no, can't expect a lib to understand something like personal responsibility.

Sorry, but 6 years is not temporary. 6 years and mom can't get off the drugs, the state needs to take the kid while she can still have a life. It's bullshit to unload your kids on your parents so you can be a burnout.

hope someone reads about their situation and offers a solution, so this family can remain together.

#57 | Posted by Lisa

The law is not on the kid's side---I was leasing a condo and the guy next door had a 90 year old grandmother and dog (he said the dog was company for the grandmother)--the Assoc. had a policy of "no dogs" and were going to court to remove him (or the dog) and one owner about 4 doors over was particularly incensed and obviously had a personal vendetta-- the problem was resolved when I bought the dog owner's condo---man, was that condo a mess--imagine: a 90 year old, a dog with the run of the condo, a single guy working days and working on his car in the garage; also smoked 2 packs/day in the condo.

I love it! We are not even a retierment community in my place but they are the same ones making the neighborhood suck. Funny thing is they are raising dues to "beautify" the neighborhood but thing is the only beautification going on is in front of their houses. Wonder if it is going to go like the 2k assesment for paving went (hint our roads are still not repaved and that was 5 years ago)

The more I look around the more I think the eskimos had the right idea.

#67 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Live in a couple of condo assn. and love it---both are different in their by-laws---the owners are all different just like the DR contributors--makes life interesting and I kind of enjoy "stirring the pot once in awhile" in my homestead one.

#59

Thank you for your kind words, Spud. I love ya!

#69

The mother has a problem. Hopefully one day she will turn that around. Until then this little girl is with the two people who love her the most and whom she loves too..

Do you honestly think her life would be better in a foster home, most times being placed in one after another...than with her loving grandparents? Do you really think this child wouldn't suffer emotionally, moreso than she probably has already!??

The grandparents have been trying to sell their home even at a ridulously low price, just to keep their granddaughter in a stable lifestyle.

It's not the childs fault her mother is doing what she is, nor is it the grandparents.

I think the neighbors should have a little compassion and patients, perhaps helping to find a buyer for the home.

I fail to see how those people who object to this child being there can sleep soundly at night while forcing this little girl into a foster home.

Guess I am lucky, my HOA is just there for the obvious stuff (grass a foot high, trash cans out front, fence fell down)... otherwise they could care less what you do...

fail to see how those people who object to this child being there can sleep soundly at night while forcing this little girl into a foster home.

#72 | Posted by Lisa

Lisa, the answers are not that easy--if they allow this child then from a discrimination standpoint they cannot not allow another one, and then another one, and then another one, and then another one---

Mat:

However, the grandparents are not insisting they continue to live there forever. They are trying to find other housing. It therefore is a temporary situation.

I think it's cold hearted and shows a lack of human decency to prefer the child goes to the state rather than have patience.

Life can turn on a dime and one day these people may find themselves in a simular situation and I'd bet my last dollar they would want others to help, or at the very least show some compassion and understanding.

This is a six year old girl, not a teenager who may be driving down the community's streets blaring the music in their vehicle, having parties, etc.

How much trouble can a six year old little girl cause an entire community that they can't afford a little patients while the grandparents sell their home, for heaven sake?

How much trouble can a six year old little girl cause an entire community that they can't afford a little patients while the grandparents sell their home, for heaven sake?

#75 | Posted by Lisa

You're right and there are answers to the problem--having lived in condo assn's when confronted with issues like this I've often gotten the boards to look with compassion and find a solution--there are always solutions if you look hard enough.

It's a sad story and the kid gets hosed without it being her doing.

Rules are rules. Whether it's age or erecting large signs, etc.

I remember when my father died several years ago. He'd owned a condo in Bradenton. I was too young to live in it. So I sold it to his lady friend.

Matsop,

This is not my first time in a HOA however this is the first time I ever had a beef with an HOA. Truthfuly I think it is a similar mentality I have noted that families with kids are vacating the community and I suspect that they are fed up with being hounded by the HOA, meanwhile folks with no kids either like the HOA or are indiferent. Like a said it is the selective enforcement of rules that is the kicker. If you have kids every rule will be enforced with a maximum of fine if you don't then no big deal we can look the other way this time.

The lack of care of parts of the neighborhood they don't live in is the real kicker though, we are in an area where housing prices are actualy going up but not in our neighborhood here they are flat because the board only cares about their 10 units. My wife spent our first 3 years idelisticly fighting for fairness and neighborhood improvement the last year just keeping quiet. Until they either spend some money improving the whole neighborhood or housing turns around I'm stuck.

If this HOA law was on the books at the time of signing/move-in then the tenants are wrong and they should move or make other living arrangements for the child.

If on the other-hand the law was put on the books after move-in then fight it for all it's worth.

They've been trying to sell out, Mysterytoy...but with the housing slump, they can't even after cutting the price by nearly half. I think they should be allowed to stay until they sell.

#13 | Posted by American1st

Just think. If the Democrats didn't pass that stupid Stimulus bill, more people would be working and the housing would be back on the rise...

God Damn IT! The Democrats have started something that affects everyone!!!

Matsop,

This is not my first time in a HOA however this is the first time I ever had a beef with an HOA. Truthfuly I think it is a similar mentality I have noted that families with kids are vacating the community and I suspect that they are fed up with being hounded by the HOA, meanwhile folks with no kids either like the HOA or are indiferent. Like a said it is the selective enforcement of rules that is the kicker. If you have kids every rule will be enforced with a maximum of fine if you don't then no big deal we can look the other way this time.

The lack of care of parts of the neighborhood they don't live in is the real kicker though, we are in an area where housing prices are actualy going up but not in our neighborhood here they are flat because the board only cares about their 10 units. My wife spent our first 3 years idelisticly fighting for fairness and neighborhood improvement the last year just keeping quiet. Until they either spend some money improving the whole neighborhood or housing turns around I'm stuck.

#78 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Yep and can you then imagine a lot of folks in Florida with the added problems of empty condos, decrease in value, developer problems etc.---my neighbor has a condo in Florida and has had for years and do they have problems due to letting a developer put some more units up just before the recent downturn--I won't bore you with the gruesome details.

Oorah:

I'd hardly compare a grown man who is capable of taking care of himself and able to find a home of his own, with a six year old child!!!

Rules? Wanna talk about rules?

How about the Golden Rule???

The article says nothing about any complaints and no other homeowners were interviewed. Is this just an over-zealous HOA president or is something else going on here?

A1

They've been trying to sell out, Mysterytoy...but with the housing slump, they can't even after cutting the price by nearly half. I think they should be allowed to stay until they sell.

Get this! I read a few more stories on this case which went into more detail. The grandparents are now being "discouraged" by the Homeowners Associations and neighbors from lowering sales price of their home any further because they are afraid if the sales price gets too low it "might result in bringing down the prices of the other homes in the neighborhood." Talk about nerve.

They can't win for losing!

#15 | Posted by CalifChris

Those people wanting them to leave and lose everything are scumbags..She should stay until someone buys their home.

I'd love to see a Condo forbid old farts from moving in. A freind lives in a big condo comples and the geriatric nazis make life miserable.

#66 | Posted by danni

imagine stating no one over 55 can live in a community or no blacks, chinese or jews..

Time to throw out HOA rules..legally

Live in a couple of condo assn. and love it---both are different in their by-laws---the owners are all different just like the DR contributors--makes life interesting and I kind of enjoy "stirring the pot once in awhile" in my homestead one.

#71 | Posted by matsop

I know I couldn't live in those fucked up communities. The first time someone told me what to do on my property or else they may get a severe beating with a large pipe wrench.

Florida court systems require mediation in civil matters such as this. No judge will sign off on the removal of a minor child from the home of her guardians without considering the best interest of the child.

The HOA may be directed to stay their eviction process until such time as the guardians can find another place to live with their grand-daughter.

I feel for this child who has been abandoned by both her parents and who hears this controversy day in and day out.

If there's a 60 day limit for visiting family members...perhaps the grans could talk to the parents of one of her schoolmates so every 60 days she can spend the night at her friends house and then come back home to spend another 60 days and so on until they sell. That way no one is 'breaking the rules'. Just a thought.

Maybe they could try and rent out their place and rent a different one for themselves?

"I'd hardly compare a grown man who is capable of taking care of himself and able to find a home of his own, with a six year old child!!!
Rules? Wanna talk about rules?
How about the Golden Rule???" LISA #82

Why have rules at all, then? If I can't live there as a quiet, law-abiding 40-something with my wife and NO children living with us... then why should those rules be broken for someone else?

People too often want it both ways. One of the reasons for moving into such places is the very fact that the HOA can establish uniformity in terms of occupancy, behavior, etc.

If you don't like those rules, either work to have them altered or live elsewhere.

That's not unlike everyday people living here in the USA. If we don't like the laws we can either learn to abide by them and/or work to change them. But to blatantly flaunt the legal/constitutional laws (or regulations) invites anarchy.

As I said in my prior post, this is an unfortunate situation for the child because she did nothing to bring it upon herself. That said, should the rest of the law abiding association members necessarily be forced to throw away their agreed-upon restrictions and subjucate their rights so that this child may reside there?

As I said in my prior post, this is an unfortunate situation for the child because she did nothing to bring it upon herself. That said, should the rest of the law abiding association members necessarily be forced to throw away their agreed-upon restrictions and subjugate their rights so that this child may reside there?

The grandparents recognize the concerns of the Council and are attempting to sell the home in order to be able to live with their grandchild somewhere else.

All they are asking for here is a little more time to make that happen.

Having had some small experience with the Homeowners Association mentality (like Nazis but more petty and anal..."gnatzis" in a word) Spud reads into the fact that the guy in this story won't budge here to mean that he is just being an unreasonable dick about all this.

Some people are just dicks.

This guy appears to be one of them people.

Be Well.

I know a case where the Condo Commandos wouldn't allow a tiny little wheelchair ramp at the doorstep.

No rule should be so intractable that it overrides compassion.

I can agree with you SPUD. Rational and reasonable people can arrive at something.

What I would be opposed to is allowing the people to continue to live there - indefinitely - in total disregard for the rules... and making out the law abiding folks to be the bad guys in all of this. And that's what I interpreted LISA's stance to be. If I'm wrong about that, I apoligize to her.

Perhaps a 60-90 day period or something of that sort would be in order for the grandparents to locate suitable housing. I would think that that could be a workable solution.

However, if down the road the grandparents are bumping up against that 90 day window we'd be back in the same spot we are right now.

When push comes to shove, whether the HOA is being a butthole or not, the rules are pretty clear.

Let's hope for the kid's sake this is able to be resolved without forced eviction.

TWIN-
I agree that rules can be reviewed based on compassion. It's one thing for one person - you, for instance, to overlook something you and I'd agreed to due to a hardship I faced.

It's something else to get a large group of people to agree to bend/break the rules. What happens when one or two people object to breaking the rule?

Those HOA can have some pretty stringent restrictions. People are free to leave if they can't or won't abide by those rules. No one forced them to live there to begin with and no one's forcing them to leave as long as they continue to abide by the formerly agreed-upon rules.

What I would be opposed to is allowing the people to continue to live there - indefinitely - in total disregard for the rules... and making out the law abiding folks to be the bad guys in all of this.

Spud would hafta agree there.

Rules is rules after all.

The point here is that this is a precipitous and unduly harsh time frame the grandparents have been given.

Accomodation can and should be reached.

And that's what I interpreted LISA's stance to be. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize to her.

And yer right to do so.

She preached reasonable accomodation in her original post

However, the grandparents are not insisting they continue to live there forever. They are trying to find other housing. It therefore is a temporary situation.

... ...

How much trouble can a six year old little girl cause an entire community that they can't afford a little patients while the grandparents sell their home, for heaven sake?

#75 | Posted by Lisa

But Lisa is the good kinda Christian (as are you) and Spud is sure she'll accept yer apology with the same good grace it was offered with.

Be Well.

SPUD-
I hadn't read that post from LISA. I was responding to her retort to me in her post #82...
"How about the Golden Rule?"

To me that meant we should overlook the HOA rules because if we were in that situation we'd want to be able to live there, indefinitely.

Again, my bad for not seeing the whole pic. Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

I stand firm, however, in insisting on a date certain for this to be resolved. Simply granting an open-ended request for "time" to resolve this is not the way to go.

In light of the flack they're getting, I suspect the grandparents don't much care to live there any longer anyway.

Spud reads into the fact that the guy in this story won't budge here to mean that he is just being an unreasonable dick about all this.

My HOA can be sued by other members if rules aren't enforced. I presume this one is the same. Is it fair for this guy on whom you use your grossly overused "nazi" monicker to take a financial hit for the benefit of a couple who don't follow the rules? Is it fair for the other homeowners who chose to pay a premium to live in the absense of children? Maybe you and all concerned should chip and and buy the house.

BTW, I've met some people with numbered tattoos on their arms who would spit in your face for trivializing their horrors by saying these people are like nazis.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention!

NP. Spud's pleasure in fact.

Yeah the "Golden Rule" she was going with there was "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

That's an oldie but a goodie.

Laws yes.

Be Well.

No rule should be so intractable that it overrides compassion.

I'm not a big fan of HOAs. In fact the house I live in now is the first time I've been associated with one. But if I found the rules objectionable, I wouldn't live there.

OOHRAH

"It's one thing for one person - you, for instance, to overlook something you and I'd agreed to due to a hardship I faced."

You lost me there, Oohrah. I don't remember a hardship or an agreement beteeen the two of us.

Kindly refresh my memory.

There is no shortage of assholes. Never was, never will be.

TWIN-
My point, dealing with overlooking or forgiving certain agreed-upon rules... is that when only two parties are involved (you and me, for instance) then you, as the only other party in the contract, can agree to waive or modify the rules.

However, when the other "party" is an association, then it becomes much more difficult to necessarily get the group to agree to waive the rules. Hence, my hypothetical of what to do when one or two residents object to a waiving of the rule. What then?

No, there's no agreement you and I have. I used you in post #93 to illustrate the difference in overlooking a rule when the original agreement is between two individuals.

OOHRAN

I didn't know that you were speaking hypothetically.

I thought I had committed another faux pas or something.

Thanks. Glad to hear Bob is OK.

BTW, I've met some people with numbered tattoos on their arms who would spit in your face for trivializing their horrors by saying these people are like nazis.

Wow, nobody does faux outrage like our resident Goatboy.

Actually, by comparing actual Nazis with HOA gnatzis Spud was hoping to insult both sides of that equation.

I get it. Another "made you look" when you get called out.

Right.

Stick to gay cutesy speak. You're much better at it than lying.

I get it.

No, Goatboy you obviously don't.

You FAIL again.

And again and again and again etc etc ad nauseum ad infinitum.

At least yer consistent.

Stick to gay cutesy speak.

Stay Classy, Troll.

Be Well.

You FAIL again.

AHH! The ever popular (well, with you, anyway) FAIL. But this time it is augmented with a string of 'agains'. Of course throw in an ad nauseum and ad infinitum. How clever can you get? What's next, I'm a poopy face? LOL

C'mon, it's not truly a deth cutesy post without a couple of 'sommats', 'wots', a string of arcane abbreviations -- oh, along with the /obligatory slideshow of course. LOL

How is it you are even alive? You must have been vaccinated against terminal cuteness.

"No rule should be so intractable that it overrides compassion."

Beautifully stated Twin!!!!

Oohrah:

There was no need to apologize! : )

My comments from the very begining stated "temporary", not that the community agree this family live there forever!

If the grandparents had said they had no intentions on following the rules and had not been trying despeately to sell their property, they would be in the wrong.

But that is not the case!

What causes such sadness in my heart is that in the world today, people have become so focused on the trivial aspects of life they have lost touch with the absolute most important worldly gift we have been given....each other.

No matter what our own financial situation is, I find it hard to believe that none of us couldn't afford to spend a little compassion, a little kindness, a little love on our fellow man in their time of temporary need.

What does it really cost us to do that?

Many grandparents are raising one or more of their grandchildren for a variety of reasons. I've always found "gated", segregated communities difficult to rationalize.

Not sure why laws that prevent this kind of elitism/segregation don't apply? But there are other laws that do apply I believe.

Some say these elitist old folks should have to be burdened with children running around their housing developments (more like glorified trailer parks in some instances), but I believe old folks are better off being around young folks.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Some say old folks have rights. Do they have more rights than other old folks who are having to raise their grandchildren?

Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Some on this thread say these elitist old folks should NOT have to be burdened with children running around their housing developments

Some say old folks have rights. Do they have more rights than other old folks who are having to raise their grandchildren?
#110 | POSTED BY WOKE AT 2009-12-31 10:34 AM

Corrected the first sentence.

Thanks for pointing that out by reposting it for me jester.

Live in a couple of condo assn. and love it---both are different in their by-laws---the owners are all different just like the DR contributors--makes life interesting and I kind of enjoy "stirring the pot once in awhile" in my homestead one.

#71 | Posted by matsop

I know I couldn't live in those fucked up communities. The first time someone told me what to do on my property or else they may get a severe beating with a large pipe wrench.

#86 | Posted by Legio

Doggone, Legio, are you telling me you're a closet conservative and "rightee" with your property rights protective stance?

"Hey, Marge, look at that child out there skipping and singing silly stupid baby songs. She left a baby doll in our grass and I thought it was her dead out there. Damn little kid with her happy girl bullshit, wait till she finds out what it's like to try to make a living! Wait till she's old like us and got arthritis and a dozen pill bottles. What right does she have to be all innocent and young and happy here in our retirement community? Well, she don't got none. We'll just see about that snot nose kid. I'm going to the Association!"

Doggone, Legio, are you telling me you're a closet conservative and "rightee" with your property rights protective stance?

#114 | POSTED BY MATSOP

I never implied I was a liberal nor am I conservative and surely not a fucking libertarian. Call me a political mutt.I state what I think is fair and right for me and society from a purely economic stand point.

Many grandparents are raising one or more of their grandchildren for a variety of reasons.

You are about 60. That makes your grandparents about 100. And they are raising kids? I'm surprised it is possble they have minor grandchildren at that age to raise!

I've always found "gated", segregated communities difficult to rationalize.

Then don't live in one.

My bad. Just woke up 30 minutes ago and have fuzzy eyes and still decaffeinated. You said "Many" not "my" grandparents.

Yeah?

Glad to hear you finally "woke" up Goatman.

I woke up on the Quan Loi Trail in 1969.....

Welcome to the club and Happy New Year, let's "hope" this decade turns out better than the last one for our troops and nation.

Peace