Now it's time to reconcile the House and Senate versions. Let's see what we get! I'd like to see the schedule moved up mirroring the House bill.

Let's see what we get!

First you gotta grab your ankles. But don't be too eager. If you can hold out for a bit, they'll throw more money and maybe a hospital at you.

But in the end, you will grab 'em. Or else go to jail.

Millions of people will get insurance and millions more will not be dropped when they become sice. Still more millions will not be prevented from buying insurance because of a pre-existing condition. Meanwhile the righties will pretend it is some sort of insidious plot to take away their freedom. They can whine now but what stopped them from bringing America some sort of health care reform when they held power???

Back-door secret meetings. Payoffs for votes to Democrats galore. Three years of paying for it until any benefits kick in. Raised taxes. No public option. Still dependent on MASSIVE cuts to Medicaid that haven't been made yet. To top it off, folks like Danni, Corky and Doc are behind it. Does no one else see the warning signs?

I hope all of you who support this shit sandwich choke on your eggnog, and have to get rescued by NYC EMT's. Ho ho ho.

God bless us, every one.

"To top it off, folks like Danni, Corky and Doc are behind it."

Oh, you mean those of us who recognized the lunacy of Bush's economic policies long before they caused and economic crisis while you and your buddies cheered on that great Bush economy???
I think our record of recognizing good policy is a bit better than yours which has a record of being 100% wrong. If you are for something then put me down as against it and vice versa.

First you gotta grab your ankles. But don't be too eager.

#2 | POSTED BY COOKFISH AT 2009-12-24 07:41 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

For crying out loud come out of the closet already.

One more step towards national bankruptcy.

I hope all of you who support this shit sandwich choke on your eggnog, and have to get rescued by NYC EMT's. Ho ho ho.

#6 | Posted by cookfish

I hope you lose your job, lose your health insurance, get cancer, wrack up 100's of thousands in medical bills, have to declare bankruptcy, lose your house and end up dying in the street-in severe pain.

merry fucking christmas.

Hahahahaha. Giants fans are so tempermental. Emphasis inthe 'mental' part. LOL.

Still more millions will not be prevented from buying insurance because of a pre-existing condition.

Great. All I have to do is wait until I'm seriously sick, THEN buy insurance. Once the bills are paid, I can drop insurance until the next time. One more step towards national bankruptcy. I knew I could count on Washington to make a bad problem worse.

So, Danni approves of all the secret deals, the buy-offs, the lack of tranparency, and the fact that most of these people didn't even know exactly what was in the bill because she 'recognizes good policy'. LOL.

If you can hold out for a bit, they'll throw more money and maybe a hospital at you.

#2 | Posted by cookfish

Ouch, I hope no one ever gets a hospital thrown at them. That can't feel good.

For crying out loud come out of the closet already.

For crying out loud, Jimmy, get back IN there. Even Corky gets scared when you stand near mistletoe.

Ooooh cockfish, that was a real zinger.

"So, Danni approves of all the secret deals, the buy-offs, the lack of tranparency, and the fact that most of these people didn't even know exactly what was in the bill because she 'recognizes good policy'. LOL."

Danni deals with reality and the reality is such that if you want to get things done you have to play the game. Democrats didn't invent the game but we also aren't going to put aside the agenda just because some parts of the game are distasteful.
Do away with the filibuster and better bills will result because then individual Senators who represent tiny populations will not be able to prevent the majority from passing better bills.

Pretty funny this morning when Harry Reid voted no before he corrected himself and voted aye.

Danni deals with reality and the reality is such that if you want to get things done you have to play the game.

Yeah sure. Like every time I remind Danni this nation is fast going broke, she goes into denial. Spend spend spend. Borrow borrow borrow. It's a prescription for disaster.

"Like every time I remind Danni this nation is fast going broke, she goes into denial."

I never deny it, I usually recommend raising taxes to prevent it. Some people look at problems and think things are hopeless while others of us get busy and fix them. If Ray had been Roosevelt we'd be speaking German today. Ray would probably be happier.

cookfish: how many postscripts does one half-wit need? You and Goatman should get a damn room.

Sam - Do you have ANYTHING intelligent to add, or are you just going to hurl lame insults like little Jimmy?

The tee vee machine said the final vote was 60-39. Did you guys pray for the wrong senator to be struck dead by the old man with a beard who lives on a cloud?

I never deny it, I usually recommend raising taxes to prevent it. Some people look at problems and think things are hopeless while others of us get busy and fix them. If Ray had been Roosevelt we'd be speaking German today. Ray would probably be happier.

The federal government is over $100 trillion in arrears, $150 trillion counting all governments. There isn't enough money in the universe.

This health bill once again proves that Washington has no fiscal discipline. Keep dreaming. I'll keep buying gold.

Merry Christmas to all, God bless us EVERYONE.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink?

Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]?

Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

"Keep dreaming. I'll keep buying gold."

Betting against America has historically been a losing bet. If you are right you may have gold but you'll have to fight to keep it so buy lots of guns and ammo, stock up on canned goods and dig a deep shelter. If that is the future I don't really want to live in it.

TH 12:24: Bite Me.

Betting against America has historically been a losing bet.

Not this time.

If you are right you may have gold but you'll have to fight to keep it so buy lots of guns and ammo, stock up on canned goods and dig a deep shelter.

I don't think it will be like that, but I do see an increase in crime and riots when the welfare checks stop. My outer appearances are very modest, not the type to attract undue attention. There is more to worry at having no money.

If that is the future I don't really want to live in it.

My bother once said that me and my father. It was enough to make my father worry my brother might commit suicide. There is now way to avoid the collapse. It's your choice.

Rethugs admit you have lost!! the supreme champions known as the dems win again!!

Danni "deals" with reality...

Creates would be more accurate. No matter 3 maybe 4 years from now Danni and the rest will be shaking their heads and thinking (using the term very loosely) WTF?

"There is now way to avoid the collapse."

Then why try, right??? Why raise taxes??? Why do anything??? Defeatists like you are dangerous, do your nation a favor and keep your negativity to yourself some of us still want to save the country for our kids and grandkids. Negativity like yours accomplishes nothing but if enough weak minded people listen to people like you they could create a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think it is sort of hilarious that you even comment on the health care bill when you have already thrown in the towel, what possible difference could it make if the whole thing is going to collapse anyway??? Why would anyone buy insurance at all??? Why not just head to the mountains as a survivalist and wait for the end??? Because deep down, even you Ray, don't really believe the nonsense you preach.

"No matter 3 maybe 4 years from now Danni and the rest will be shaking their heads and thinking (using the term very loosely) WTF?"

Yeah, just like when nit wits like you told us that in a few years we'd understand the brilliant thinking involved in invading Iraq. Like we'd understand the brilliance of the Bush tax cuts. Like we'd understand Greenspan's brilliance in holding interest rates so low that the housing bubble developed. Uh-huh....riiiight.

Achtung, right wing shoppers!
We have everything you closet skinheads need for your last minute holliday shopping: Klan hoods, swatstikas, flamable crosses, hangin' ropes, torches, pitchforks and more.
Merry Christmas to all White Christians!
rightwingassholes.com

Then why try, right??? Why raise taxes??? Why do anything??? Defeatists like you are dangerous, do your nation a favor and keep your negativity to yourself some of us still want to save the country for our kids and grandkids. Negativity like yours accomplishes nothing but if enough weak minded people listen to people like you they could create a self-fulfilling prophecy

So far every idea of yours makes a bad situation worse. I'll do fine. You're the type who are screwing themselves.

Sorry Danni I didn't buy the whole Iraq horse shit either. Tax cuts - good, Greenspan - better. Before you talk about the housing bubble go to school and get a Minimum education before you open your clap trap. Housing bubble was caused by 3 greedy groups, sorry make that 4. Lenders, Realters, Appraisors, and Democrats.

Oh, you mean those of us who recognized the lunacy of Bush's economic policies long before they caused and economic crisis while you and your buddies cheered on that great Bush economy???
I think our record of recognizing good policy is a bit better than yours which has a record of being 100% wrong. If you are for something then put me down as against it and vice versa.

#8 | Posted by danni

Are you an idiot? You're using Bush policy as a defense for this pile of shit bill? He (Bush) had plenty of his own suckness going on... we at least agree there. Yet you don't care that OB just extended many of 'ol Bush's policies (ie. Patriot Act, war, etc.). But this... Heath-Care. You blindly run to it regardless of what it costs this nation - both in terms of expense and loss of liberty. These politicians lay out the benefits of new Health Care to clear their conscious while grabbing the envelope of cash under the table. Honestly, what are you getting out of it Danni?

#29 | Posted by Ray at

More people can see a doctor when they're sick, it's the end of the world as we know it!

About a week ago everyone in my house got sick except for me. I took them all to the doctor, he said it was some stomach virus that was going around and that it would all be better in a few days.

Hedid write up some scrips, I went to the drug store to get them filled. There was this old man and woman there waiting on their scrips too. While I was waiting the old man started messing with the blood pressure machine and the girl behind the counter brought up their stuff.

I couldn't hear the conversation but I could tell it wasn't good, finally the old lady turns around and says "this is going to cost 1,000 dollars." The old man says "Oh no... I bet that half assed reading I just got out of this thing is out the window now that you told me that..."

They talked for a few seconds, I heard the old man say "Well put it on one of the cards if we have one that can afford it." While they talked about what the hell they were going to do and how they had to have it to stay alive the brought our stuff out. I have this fancy little card, it came to a whopping 12 dollars.

I can see why putting an end to shit like that is against the interests of the party of fuck you, I've got mine. Would you guys please take your own advice and get the fuck out if you don't like it?

Oh, you mean those of us who recognized the lunacy of Bush's economic policies long before they caused and economic crisis while you and your buddies cheered on that great Bush economy???
I think our record of recognizing good policy is a bit better than yours which has a record of being 100% wrong. If you are for something then put me down as against it and vice versa.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2009-12-24 08:16 AM | Reply | Flag

DANNI'S ANSWER TO BUSH'S STUPID SPENDING IS SPEND THREE TIMES AS MUCH BECAUSE DANNI HAS A VERY SIMPLE BRAIN
DEMOCRATES = GOOD
REPUBLICANS = BAD

As said before, if this was such a great bill from 'Oboner, Napalm Nancy and Horrible Harry', why did they have to BRIBE their own party to vote for it... seems that it would have stood on it's own... the naive cannot seem to grasp that..!!!
Another very tragic day in American history.. a real 'terroist' attack on the Amercian citizenry freedom and economy...and, sadly, by our own citizens this time..!!! Ranks right up top of the horrors bestowed on the American citizens..
As it has evolved, it seems that the 'bottom feeders' of our society are the true supporters of this bill; ones with lack of ethics, morals or character... we have really dropped our standards in this country... Hopefully, people will become stronger in 2010 and correct this downfall..!!!

"Lenders, Realters, Appraisors, and Democrats."

What a partisan simpleton.

"So far every idea of yours makes a bad situation worse."

Right, raising taxes on the rich is always met with the same argument and it is virtually always proven wrong. You would have objected to the tax rates we had to pay down the debt after WWII but you would have been proven wrong. You will be again.

Here Danni this should keep you occupied for a few days. Now run along and read like a good girl
World's Shortest Books:
______________________________
___________
THINGS I DID TO DESERVE THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE
by Barack Obama
______________________________
______________
MY BLACK GIRLFRIENDS
by Tiger Woods
______________________________
______________

THINGS I LOVE ABOUT MY COUNTRY
by Jane Fonda & Cindy Sheehan.
Illustrated by Michael Moore
______________________________
__________

MY CHRISTIAN ACCOMPLISHMENTS &
HOW I HELPED AFTER KATRINA
by Rev Jesse Jackson & Rev Al Sharpton
______________________________
________

THINGS I LOVE ABOUT BILL
by Hillary Clinton
_________________

Sequel:
THINGS I LOVE ABOUT HILLARY
By Bill Clinton
_________________

MY LITTLE BOOK OF PERSONAL HYGIENE
by Osama Bin Laden
______________________________
___

THINGS I CANNOT AFFORD
by Bill Gates
______________________________
______

THINGS I WOULD NOT DO FOR MONEY
by Dennis Rodman
______________________________
___

THINGS WE KNOW TO BE TRUE
by Al Gore & John Kerry
______________________________
_______

AMELIA EARHART'S GUIDE TO THE PACIFIC
_______________

A COLLECTION of MOTIVATIONAL SPEECHES
by Dr. J.. Kevorkian
______________________________
____

TO ALL THE MEN WE HAVE LOVED, BEFORE ......
by Ellen de Generes & Rosie O'Donnel
__________________

GUIDE TO DATING ETIQUETTE
by Mike Tyson
______________________________
____

THE AMISH PHONE DIRECTORY
______________________________
_________

MY PLAN TO FIND THE REAL KILLERS
by O. J. Simpson
______________________________
___________

HOW TO DRINK & DRIVE SAFELY
by Ted Kennedy
_________

MY BOOK OF MORALS
by Bill Clinton with introduction
by the Rev. Jesse Jackson

******************************
*************************

AND, JUST ADDED:
Complete Knowledge of Military Strategy!
By Nancy Pelosi

I can see why putting an end to shit like that is against the interests of the party of fuck you, I've got mine. Would you guys please take your own advice and get the fuck out if you don't like it?
#38 | POSTED BY NOGOV4ME

I have no party or ideological affiliation. It's an economic fact of life that America at all levels have accumulated unsustainable levels of debt. This country is in the early stages of a major debt collapse. I don't like it, but I can deal with it.

Phil Gramm was a Democrat?
Who knew?

"Honestly, what are you getting out of it Danni?"

That her partisan, ignorant ass will be taken care of by the rest of us?????

OK now the rest of us can have a meaningful and intelligent conversation. That should keep Danni busy for weeks.

You forgot

ITALIAN WAR HEROES
by Benito Mussolini

Hey TEDLY, you have kept her busy for a year..!!!

You left out

HOW OIL WILL PAY FOR THE WAR
by Dick Cheney

HOW TAX CUTS REDUCE DEFICITS
by George Bush

NO ONE COULD EVER HAVE IMAGINED
by Condi Rice

OUR ECONOMY IS SOUND
by John McCain

THINGS I LIKE TO READ
by Sarah Palin

TALIAN WAR HEROES
by Benito Mussolini

#47 | Posted by Zatoichi

Too Funny

#44 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-12-24 09:56 AM | Reply

You mean wives of dem senators benefit from their husbands legislation or committee memberships???

HOW OIL WILL PAY FOR THE WAR
by Dick Cheney

That wasn't Cheney, it was what's-his-name.
The really sleazy guy.

I am glad the debate/ fighting is coming to an end. Not in Congress, but here. This debate has made too many enemies of former friends here; you would think WE were voting on it.

Now we get the debate of "Which bill: Senate or House?" and that I hope will be a much more calm and rational debate.

Congrats to those who supported the bill.

See Danni you do have a sense of humor! But you really should start reading, Lunch will be ready soon and there's a test prior to eating.

Depends on whether her 'meals on wheels' arrives in time...!!!

"This wasn't a late add. It was just missed in the opaque language of the original Senate bill."

There are tons of shit "missed" in the bill...like THIS little jewel on page 1432...

"Page 1,432 contains two lines that prohibit states from receiving federal health-care assistance funds if they limit attorneys' fees or impose caps on damages.

This affects states that already have substantially reduced health-care costs (and attorneys' fees) by reining in out-of-control and unwarranted lawsuit awards. These two lines in H.R. 3962 guarantee that prohibitively high medical malpractice insurance will continue to drive up health-care costs and drive doctors out of medicine.

Why did the Democrats include these costly two lines? Could it have something to do with the $237 million given to Congress by trial lawyers in 2008 with 80 percent going to Democrats? Trial lawyers are the largest special-interest congressional contributors, even larger than Big Oil -- and, as we see, they got what they paid for.

H.R. 3962 is not about health-care reform. It is about money and increasing the size of government for those who enjoy the benefits of political power."

Donald L. Davis

Evans

From the Tuesday, November 10, 2009 edition of the Augusta Chronicle

SURE I VOTED FOR HIM TWICE BUT I NEVER REALLY SUPPORTED HIM
by Righties Posting on DR

Can anyone point out what part of this legislation is reform? Or who is it supposed to reform? We know the dems lied about going after insurance companies under the guise of insurance reform. Now of course the lobbyists made sure that was removed via millions to senate dems on the take. That got us premiums going up. Now it is back to Healthcare Reform. But who are they going after? Hospitals? Clinics? School Nurses? Exactly who is going to be reformed by putting another 30 million on the Government teat?

New headline Rogers. This isn't "Reform". It should read...

"CONGRESS PASSES YET ANOTHER CORPORATE PAYOFF"

"Which bill: Senate or House?" and that I hope will be a much more calm and rational debate."

LOL...hope DOES spring eternal. However, you're either dreaming or in some kind of drug-induced stupor. You know the old saw..."It ain't over 'til it's over."

Liberals are stage-one thinkers and don't go beyond the feel good' part at the beginning. There is no point arguing an idealog liberal as it is about winning' and never about the results, so this is more for education of the readers here. The consequences of this bill UNDENIABLY will be higher taxes, higher insurance premiums, massive deficit increases, reduced availability of quality healthcare, and is obvious to any conservatively minded person.
Example 1: No pre-existing condition really means no health insurance'. So, cancel your insurance and pay the little fine, then wait until you get sick (no pre-existing condition matters), get on the plan, get the benefits, then get off the plan, viola! Multiply times millions. That is how students will do it at university, guaranteed.

#57 | Posted by danni

You'll be singing the same tune about Obama in a few short years.

Jest, ditto. this reform has never been about healthcare, it has always been about control.

another side note: with this bill the rich will eventually have there own healthcare system. they will band together and build private hospitals, hire their own DRs and nurses, etc... while the rest of us will be stuck with some form of a welfare type healthcare

Lemmings are small rodents, usually found in or near the Arctic, in tundra biomes. They are subniveal animals and together with the voles and muskrats, they make up the subfamily Democrats.

#5 | Posted by cookfish at 2009-12-24 08:05 AM | Reply | Flag: Menopausal Post of the Month

But give him time, the star of, "Transgendered and Pregnant" isn't quite used to all his new "feelings".

"That is how students will do it at university, guaranteed."

Pretty sad when students can outsmart the fools (dems)in Washington and get around this skewed legislation they ignorantly pass. All one has to do is look at the banks, and see how they have schooled DC into getting record profits during a recession. Of course they had to give millions to the lawmakers. Is there any doubt whatever entities are affected by this so called reform won't benefit in the long run? IE outsmart the hacks in DC?

#56 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Great post. Best government money can buy.

Now to all the partisan hacks...
Anyone supporting either side of this two party monstrosity should be ashamed of themselves. They are selling this country out from under us and all you dolts can do is blame the other guy. You wingnuts must love all these backdoor shenanigans, corporate payoffs, and un-kept promises. Otherwise you would have been pissed off enough to vote independent by now. Keep up the great work. It shouldn't be long before it's illegal to take a dump in this country without getting a bureaucrats permission.

"I don't think it will be like that, but I do see an increase in crime and riots when the welfare checks stop. My outer appearances are very modest, not the type to attract undue attention. There is more to worry at having no money."

Wow. Did you really just suggest that only people who receive welfare checks will riot or commit crimes? Wow, Ray. Just. Wow.

+++++

I also don't understand your point about pre-existing conditions. I think you're reading too much into it. But then, maybe you also don't agree that insurance for health is fundamentally different from homeowners' and car insurance.

+++++

"Housing bubble was caused by 3 greedy groups, sorry make that 4. Lenders, Realters, Appraisors, and Democrats."

Here we go again with bizarre partisan accusations. No Republicans helped with this in any way? Bizarre.

+++++

Some of the book titles were funny, Tedly. Do you really think that Jane Fonda, Cindy Sheehan, and Michael Moore don't love America? Do you think that of everyone who doesn't support the rah-rah jingoism of modern America? If so, that's sad. One doesn't have to agree with those shouting "patriot" loudest in order to be one.

+++++

Not having read the bill, I have little to say about the passage, except that I think it's been wrongheaded from the beginning--focusing on insurance not care itself, the system itself. But maybe some of that has been addressed. We don't have health care, you see; we have sick care.

""Page 1,432 contains two lines that prohibit states from receiving federal health-care assistance funds if they limit attorneys' fees or impose caps on damages."

I don't see where he gets that. There is something called: "INCENTIVE PAYMENTS FOR MEDICAL LIABILITY
3 REFORM" which does have some requirements but it does not say that states cannot receive federal health care funds if they limit attorney's fees or cap damages. If it does then please point out where.

1432
HR 3962 IH
1 (A) makes the medical liability system
2 more reliable through prevention of, or prompt
3 and fair resolution of, disputes;
4 (B) encourages the disclosure of health
5 care errors; and
6 (C) maintains access to affordable liability
7 insurance.
8 (4) CONTENTS OF ALTERNATIVE MEDICAL LI9
ABILITY LAW.The contents of an alternative liabil10
ity law are in accordance with this paragraph if
11 (A) the litigation alternatives contained in
12 the law consist of certificate of merit, early
13 offer, or both; and
14 (B) the law does not limit attorneys' fees
15 or impose caps on damages.
16 (b) USE OF INCENTIVE PAYMENTS.Amounts re17
ceived by a State as an incentive payment under this sec18
tion shall be used to improve health care in that State.
19 (c) TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE.The Secretary may
20 provide technical assistance to the States applying for or
21 receiving an incentive payment under this section.
22 (d) REPORTS.Beginning not later than one year
23 after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary
24 shall submit to the Congress an annual report on the
25 progress States have made in enacting and implementing

Example 2: Communism only works when there is a community. Liberals are getting their states taken out of the program in exchange for votes. However, they will get their benefits in other ways such as having their Medicare funded for free. They are keeping the best cuts of meat for themselves and leaving the community to starve. This money is not lock boxed, meaning it will end up in the general budget just as social security thereby taking care of the opted out states.

does this mean that hell has frozen over?

"another side note: with this bill the rich will eventually have there own healthcare system."

Did they do that in Canada or Europe??? Japan???
Do our elderly wealthy refuse Medicare???

This Christmas Eve morning the American people are closer to having what Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 and 6 other American Presidents since, including Richard Nixon, tried to provide for them, some consumer protection against amoral corporations when it comes to their health, their very lives.

None of these Bills are perfect, but they are like Tom Harkin said, a starter home to which we can make additions.

Merry Christmas to all!

"SURE I VOTED FOR HIM TWICE BUT I NEVER REALLY SUPPORTED HIM"

Danni, what you have to realize is that anyone with half a brain who can think rationally probably NEVER totally agrees (you say, supports) with anyone else. You jhate Bush therefore you can't agree with a single policy he supported. What about, No Child Left Behind? What about Campaign Finance Reform? You didn't like those?
Personally, I didn't really like him and didn't actually vote FOR him, I voted AGAINST his two opponents. I didn't like his policies on government spending, increasing size of government etc. but I didn't "hate" him or his opponents. I dislike most of Obama's policies because they are WAYYYY too far left for me....BUT, I don't hate him. You are a zealot of the most radical order and your ideology of ..
Democrat....GOOD!
Republican...BAD!
...makes you a joke. I bet you liked Parker Griffith before you hated him, right?

"another side note: with this bill the rich will eventually have there own healthcare system. they will band together and build private hospitals, hire their own DRs and nurses, etc..."

Don't think the scum in DC won't legislate or mandate something to shut that door. A group of doctors and patients in NY have their own plan, where clients pay into a fund and premiums and visits are way less. All without one iota of Government involvement. Of course danni found fault with that as well, and doesn't like the idea of people being smarter than the Government. Or like a good little selfish lib, feels slighted because it benefits only a small group and not her.

Now we get the debate of "Which bill: Senate or House?" and that I hope will be a much more calm and rational debate.

The Senate bill will dominate. 60-39/40 is too close to risk. I do hope they move up the schedule for coverage, though. The CBO projections are quite astoundingly good (1.3 T savings) for the second decade, though that, to me, is pretty ridiculous to count on. Even if it was half that, that's solid.

25% increase in my premiums this year, I think our health care system was heading for disaster. I'm now cautiously optimistic.

Example 3: Doctors cannot be forced to take patients in the program, yet. More and more doctors are opting out of existing government programs because of their inefficiency and decreased reimbursements. The doctors are SERIOUSLY going to drop out of this one once the $500 billion gets shed. Therefore, liberals will have to put the insurance companies out of the picture, and have the public option as the only way a doctor gets paid. This will take a while as they tweak' the bill, which is what the liberals mean when they use that term. Less doctors, more patients, less doctors seeing patients.

this bill is nothing more that the result of a republican administration totally missing the spirit and the desires of the american people.

"You are a zealot of the most radical order and your ideology of .."

I detest George Bush for several reasons...
1. Iraq War
2. Tax cuts for the rich
3. 9-11
4. The 2000 stolen election

If that makes the a radical then so be it.
If Obama did the same I'd detest him too.

"What about, No Child Left Behind? What about Campaign Finance Reform?"

No Child Left Behind is a fucking travesty. It does nothing to better children's education (except _maybe_ on a purely rote level), and might even harm children's education. It was also based on a now-discredited "system of improvement" in Texas. Googling No Child Left Behind and reading commentary and evidence from multiple perspectives might be educational. Even many who were originally proponents of the act have been dialing back on support, examining ways to improve it, etc. Emphasis on teacher accountability is not necessarily a bad thing; assessing student improvement pretty much purely through testing is a bad thing. We need multiple avenues of assessment, and we need complete education, not reading and math to the exclusion of history and the arts. (For the record, yes, the Dems in Congress need to be whipped, too. I don't blame Bush alone for NCLB. I blame the entire Congress. Just as I do for the PATRIOT Act and the War Powers Act that led to the war in Iraq.)

As for campaign finance reform, wasn't that McCain-Feingold? How does Bush get to take credit (or be given credit) for that?

"None of these Bills are perfect, but they are like Tom Harkin said, a starter home to which we can make additions."

Like more bribes and subsidies to any state whos Senator votes "aye"???

Harkin dismissed deals dubbed vote-buying by GOP senators as "small stuff" that distracted Americans from the primary focus of the overhaul bill.

Small stuff? Let's see some of what was given away in the healthcare sweepstakes:

■$100 Million to the State of Louisiana to secure Senator Mary Landrieu's (D-LA) vote.
■At least $100 Million to Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) so Nebraska won't have to pay it's share of medicare expansion that will take place.
■Vermont and Massachusetts will also receive aid in covering expansion costs.
■The "honorable" Senator from Connecticut, Chris Dodd, who received an earmark of a measly $100 Million for the construction of a University hospital. I wonder if it will have his name on it?
■Senator Nelson again, as well as, Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) were able to secure for non-profit insurers in their states an exemption of the excise tax that is included in this bill. All other similar insurers will have to pay it in the other 48 states.
■Senator Harkin himself was able to secure increased payments for hospitals in Keokuk, Grinnell and Spirit Lake since they are considered "low volume hospitals" treating a limited number of Medicare patients.
■Then Senator Bill Nelson (no relation to Ben Nelson except in habits) (D-FL) was likely the winner since he secured protection for his state's Medicare Advantage beneficiaries from cuts that will take place nationwide. In particular three heavily Democratic counties. That right there is the mother lode of kickbacks in this bill.
And this is just what has been notices thus far. It's Washington's new program, "Cash for Corruptocrats." Already attorney generals in different states are looking into the constitutionality of these kickbacks.

But hey, it's just small stuff. You know typically when somebody gives out a bribe, at least they are using there own money. Harkin doesn't mind our money being used for these bribes provided it accomplishes his agenda.

If the regulator of the Exchange, the same one who regulates Fed programs much like a state insurance regulator, actually has some legal teeth, which they say Harry Reid added to this latest version of the Bill, then there can be decent cost control with million of people getting new buying power thru the Exchange, even though I would have much liked to see a public plan to assure said competition and savings.

What about, No Child Left Behind?

Horrible system. Ask any teacher. We are no longer teaching kids, but merely preping them to pass a test. If it is not on the test, it is not taught in school any more.

What about Campaign Finance Reform?

That was McCain, not Bush.

81 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag: Sausage Making Virgin

What a great Christmas present......healthcare for those who cannot afford it and for those who would be terminated due to pre existing conditions,

AND

we get to watch the heads explode of those "nattering nabobs of negativity", who had NO PROBLEM with their neocon heroes spending TRILLIONS on KILLING< MAIMING AND DISPLACING people who did not attack the usa, and was no threat to ever do so, leaving a debt of 10 TRILLION and further enriching the global oil/war corporations, while decrying spending less than a trillion of American taxpayer money to help American taxpayers and American working poor.

The rwrs are hilarious and pathetic simultaneously.

"25% increase in my premiums this year, I think our health care system was heading for disaster. I'm now cautiously optimistic."

Those are just to cover the bribes and insure the campaign coffers. What guarantees are there your 25% increase will mean any benefits? Or reform? Seems to me this will crowd out the rest of us and our healthcare will no doubt suffer.

#68 | Posted by pragmatist

Do you really think that Jane Fonda, Cindy Sheehan, and Michael Moore don't love America?

Jane Fonda - don't care she's hot even at her current age.
Cindy Sheehan - sorry for her loss but that's one of the prices of war. Millions of young men have died on the battlefields since the beginning of time and millions more will die in the future. A sad but true fact of life. Say a prayer, never forget and get a hobby.
Michael Moore - No he just likes it when everyone pays attention to him. He doesn't like America because he too in love with himself to be bothered.

Wow. Did you really just suggest that only people who receive welfare checks will riot or commit crimes? Wow, Ray. Just. Wow
#68 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

No, not only. More broadly, it's those whose income is dependent on government. That covers 2/3 of the population.

Cindy Sheehan - sorry for her loss but that's one of the prices of war. Millions of young men have died on the battlefields since the beginning of time and millions more will die in the future. A sad but true fact of life. Say a prayer, never forget and get a hobby.

The child may volunteer to go, but the mother does not volunteer to lose their child. There is no accounting for how anyone deals with loss and there is no guide on how to do it. She felt her child was taken, not lost, and did all she could to prevent other mothers from feeling the same pain.

I don't blame any of her actions on her.

Example 4: The healthcare system has been under siege by trial lawyers. Malpractice insurance has become so expensive that some doctors won't deliver babies, but will keep the gynecology part of their practice open. There is no tort reform such as 'loser pays' language in this bill. 'Loser pays' simply means that if you sue a hospital and it costs the hospital $2 million to defend itself, and the hospital wins, then the prosecution has to reimburse the hospital $2 million. This is the primary reason for premium increases.

#84 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 10:39 AM

Still blames the GOP for the Dems holding out on the Public Option being removed, and condones dem Senators who held out for the hundreds of millions in bribe money. Also thinks Harry Reid is the best majority leader in history.

"You are a zealot of the most radical order and your ideology of ..
Democrat....GOOD!
Republican...BAD!"

What you call a zealot I call someone who doesn't hide behind phony claims of "independent, or I vote for the person not the party, or other such nonsense. I openly admit I support the Democratic agenda and support Democrats because they push the agenda I favor. That is how politics works in America, you can be above the fray and pretend not to support a party but if you are honest then you will admit that when you review your voting record that it does seem to favor one party over the other.
I just don't play the silly game of denying that I chose one and that I support it.

I detest George Bush for several reasons...
1. Iraq War; SH was going to have to delt with at some point
2. Tax cuts for the rich; and everyone else. which BTW are going to expire in 2010 and I'm very sure your Dem buddies will not extend them. so get ready to pay more
3. 9-11 come on?
4. The 2000 stolen election. at what point was Gore ever ahead; the first count? the recount? the recount of the recount? the recount of ONLY DEM selected counties?

"I don't blame any of her actions on her."

She lied and was propped up by activists dems who knew she lied and tugged on the hearts of americans because of her son.

- bribe money

Thinks that this is the first time these kind of negotiations have ever taken place and only happened under Dems...... roflmfao!!!

Sausage Virgin, lol.

"The healthcare system has been under siege by trial lawyers."

Simply not supported by the facts. Medical malpractice accounts for a very tiny portion of health care expenses. What is called "tort reform" is, in actuality, elimination or reduction of rights held since the Magna Carta which in the states where it has been enacted, such as Florida, it has not reduced health care expenses noticably.

I also don't understand your point about pre-existing conditions. I think you're reading too much into it. But then, maybe you also don't agree that insurance for health is fundamentally different from homeowners' and car insurance.
#68 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

Insurance companies wouldn't sell you homeowners insurance after your house burns down. They wouldn't sell you car insurance after you smacked into a telephone pole. Any law that forces insurance companies to ignore pre-existing conditions is guaranteed to drive them out of business. It's probably intentional.

do not look for valid facts from the party of lies, fear and hate

"The contents of an alternative liabil10
ity law are in accordance with this paragraph if
11 (A) the litigation alternatives contained in
12 the law consist of certificate of merit, early
13 offer, or both; and
14 (B) the law does not limit attorneys' fees
15 or impose caps on damages."

Read VERRRRRY slowly, Danni, "...the contents of an alternative liability law are in accordance...IF (repeat, IF)....and the law does not limit attorney's fees or impose caps on damages."

So, Danni, what it's saying is that a state limiting attorney fees or imposing caps is NOT in accordance with the law and is therefore ineligible for federal funding.

"Horrible system. Ask any teacher. We are no longer teaching kids, but merely preping them to pass a test. If it is not on the test, it is not taught in school any more."

A bit extreme, that last sentence. But in general, I agree. (In my school, that's not true. We are still teaching our curriculum, but there is pressure...)

+++++

Ray, you still sound paranoid, and I don't understand your point about dependent on government. Never mind that if things get as bad as you say, there are plenty of people whose incomes have no connection to government who will be pushed over the financial edge and could easily find their way to criminal action. Your rhetoric makes it sound as if you believe there are some special "civilization morals" in those who are "independent of government." Or the inverse.

+++++

Tedly, wow. Cindy Sheehan should just move on? It isn't possible for people to experience epiphanies for whatever reason and realize that there is a larger purpose for which they should put themselves on the line? As for Michael Moore, he's a muckraker and a manipulator, but how in the world can anyone presume to know whether he loves or hates America? Maybe he's motivated to push his agenda, and it involves a different vision of America than that his critics hold; or maybe he's just found a great way to make money. (In my opinion, it's a bit of both, but I can't know anymore than you can.)

Here is a Guide to the Coming Health Care Negotiations in conference with the Pres, House, and Senate.

The rwrs are hilarious and pathetic simultaneously.

#85 | Posted by woke at 2009-12-24 10:41 AM |

How many RW senators were bribed for their vote? Only an ignorant, senile fool would imply the GOP had anything to do with how low the dems have been to pass this shit.

#89 | Posted by kanrei

Nor do I Kanrei

"Insurance companies wouldn't sell you homeowners insurance after your house burns down. They wouldn't sell you car insurance after you smacked into a telephone pole. Any law that forces insurance companies to ignore pre-existing conditions is guaranteed to drive them out of business. It's probably intentional."

And you just illustrated my implied point quite clearly. Thanks for confirming that you see health insurance in exactly the same way you see car and homeowners insurance. I'm hoping you did that on purpose; otherwise, you missed my point and you're not as smart as I thought you were. : )

"I never deny it, I usually recommend raising taxes to prevent it. "
#21 | Posted by danni

Danni, lead by example. Your government does take additional donated taxes. Add an extra grand or two when you do your taxes. Put your money where your mouth is. Show Obama what a good civil soldier you are. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

Health reform? There is no "reform" in it.

add me to the list that say rwrs are hilarious and pathetic at the same time. 1. has hell frozen over yet? Has Sarah the fraud had her meeting with the death panel about the life or death of her genetic mutant? hilarious and pathetic

#102 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag: Desperately needs new talking point, as this one is as flimsy as his nightie.

The GOP has made exactly the same sorts of deals, as have both parties. It's the way legislation works.

And no, Obama didn't bring a magic wand to change things overnight.

Danni,

I found this....

#30 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-24 09:28 AM | Reply | Flag: Contributing all he is able to muster to add to the discussion

Merry Christmas to you and your family though and thanks for being one of the rwrs here on DR who are able to debate a topic without juvenile rants, namecalling and insults.

Do you believe insurance companies should just TAKE IN premiums and never provide the things they claim to provide when they sell the insurance? What is the point of buying insurance if, when you get sick, the company finds some symptom you reported to a Dr. 5 or 10 years ago and claims pre-existing denial?

What if it was you mom or dad or family member?

What if they LOST their job, home and ability to care for themselves due to illness and denial by a company they paid into for decades?

God bless.

A bit extreme, that last sentence.

Prag,
I am going based on the FCAT (Florida's test) where social studies, art, music, and PE have been cut to allow more time to teach the test. Some school districts have gone so far as to replace their entire curriculum with FCAT prep.

"Medical malpractice accounts for a very tiny portion of health care expenses."

Another Dannism...you think those doctors paying malpractice insurance premiums aren't passing them on to the "payers," do you? You know, Danni, the insurance companies, the taxpayers, or, in rare cases, the patients?

107

Perhaps we should add HYSTERICAL to HILARIOUS and PATHETIC?

Read VERRRRRY slowly, Danni,
#99 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Thats why I gave Danni my earlier post #42 but she just doesn't listen. I've tried. No use. Thinks she knows it all. Damn kids.

"So, Danni, what it's saying is that a state limiting attorney fees or imposing caps is NOT in accordance with the law and is therefore ineligible for federal funding."

I went to the page and read every word, I also read the preceding and the following pages.
All I could find was where it said that there were requirements to qualify for "INCENTIVE PAYMENTS FOR MEDICAL LIABILITY" but nothing in regards to other payments. What you quote is exactly the part that relates to "INCENTIVE PAYMENTS FOR MEDICAL LIABILITY". I'm not claiming that it doesn't say what Donald Davis says but it sure isn't on page 1432 of the bill. I doubt it is anywhere in the bill and that Mr. Davis knows that but thought he could make the claim and no one would bother to actually check.

"Medical malpractice accounts for a very tiny portion of health care expenses."

Judgments account for a very tiny portion, but Malpractice Insurance Premiums is a very large portion.

bribe money

Thinks that this is the first time these kind of negotiations have ever taken place and only happened under Dems...... roflmfao!!!

Sausage Virgin, lol.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 10:47 AM

Only calls this "negotiations" because it is her beloved dems. To the point of blaming repubs for these dem senators holding out. Of course when this inevitably fails, is there any doubt who Corky's brown nose will blame. Not the party who applied the stain.

Do you blame the toilet when you are constipated?

"A team at the University of Alabama looked into (tort reform) last year. Their survey of studies related to malpractice insurance, defensive medicine and consumer health insurance premiums looked at 27 states with limits on non-economic damages, including Texas. Their conclusion "Tort reforms have not led to health care cost savings for consumers" was published in the December issue of Health Sciences Review. "It's had a really small effect, or else it doesn't seem to change defensive medicine,' said Michael Morrisey, a professor of health economics and health insurance and the director of the university's Lister Hill Center for Health Policy." Landers also notes, "Families USA, a consumer advocate group in Washington, found health care premiums in Texas increased 86.8 percent from 2000 to 2007."

"Danni,

I found this...."

We're both having as much effect on Danni as a fart in a tornado. Besides, ther are too many big words in there for her. You gotta limit your points to simple ideas such as...
Democrats ("progressives")...GOOD!
Republicans (conservatives")...BAD!
She has grasped those concepts quite well.

you cant reach danni with logic so you revert to mccainish insults.... you go you use those rethug tactics

K

Capping medical malpractice awards does lower physicians premiums, but not health care costs.

#118 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag: Lithium prescription unfilled

#102 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 10:52 AM | Reply | Flag: Desperately needs new talking point, as this one is as flimsy as his nightie.

The GOP has made exactly the same sorts of deals, as have both parties. It's the way legislation works.

And no, Obama didn't bring a magic wand to change things overnight.
#108 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 10:55 AM

I was speaking of this legislation and as ususal you ignore that and proceed to "well the other side does it also" routine. Never once criticized the repubs if and when they did this and claimed it is the way legisltion works. Never once uttered the repubs do it for their rich friends. Or campaign money, Or.....? Anything but what the dems are doing.

Reminds me of Clinton saying his pardon of Rich was different than Bush and Libby. Like Jest pointed out dems good, repubs bad.

Ray, you still sound paranoid, and I don't understand your point about dependent on government. Never mind that if things get as bad as you say, there are plenty of people whose incomes have no connection to government who will be pushed over the financial edge and could easily find their way to criminal action. Your rhetoric makes it sound as if you believe there are some special "civilization morals" in those who are "independent of government." Or the inverse.
#100 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

I can't put a number on what proportion will riot and commit criminal acts. What I see is that the decades politicians have spent nurturing a dependence on government will backfire when the money runs out.

I believe in most states with a cap on damages it is set at $250,000. Well, if a surgeon cuts of the wrong foot, as has happened many times, it seems to me it should be worth a lot more than $250,000.
Also, the same doctors Repeatedly commit malpractice yet retain licenses. When the medical community weeds out the bad doctors there will be far fewer cases of malpractice. If these people were pilots who repeatedly crashed airplanes they wouldn't be allowed to fly, shouldn't doctors be held to at least the same standard???

There are conservatives in the Republican and Democrat parties. There are liberals in each as well. Politicians move in and out of the parties as a matter of convenience. The only true enemy is liberalism which seeks to undermine our Constitution. We need to keep this in mind as the framework' when debating political issues. Personal attacks and emotional bickering is how the liberal idealog defeats you. Tunnel vision and a loose perception of the bigger picture is the liberal's main weakness in the debate. However, it is more fun and entertaining to be all up in the face on occasion.

"The healthcare system has been under siege by trial lawyers."

"Simply not supported by the facts."
#96 | Posted by danni

#124 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag: Thinks "context" is an ebil concept

"I am going based on the FCAT (Florida's test) where social studies, art, music, and PE have been cut to allow more time to teach the test. Some school districts have gone so far as to replace their entire curriculum with FCAT prep."

I'm with you, Kanrei. I don't deny that it's happening, only that it's as widespread as you first stated. Some schools... The system is wrong, and we certainly agree on that! Thanks for the citation, though. : )

+++++

'I can't put a number on what proportion will riot and commit criminal acts. What I see is that the decades politicians have spent nurturing a dependence on government will backfire when the money runs out."

But you were happy to toss the broad-brush statement out there, Ray. That's all I was saying. You seem quick to point at "those people." I hope they don't come steal your gold. : )

""Section 2531, entitled "Medical Liability Alternatives," establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But] a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys' fees or imposes caps on damages."

KBM, that is exactly what I said. I never claimed it didn't prevent some states from qualifying for certain payments but that it doesn't disqualify those states from all other payments. You really need to learn how to read.

"The only true enemy is liberalism which seeks to undermine our Constitution."

Liberals wrote the Constitution and Liberals who wrote it never intended for corporations to be considered persons under the law with the same rights as citizens but CONSERVATIVES support that concept so it is CONSERVATIVES who actively seek to undermine our constitution.

"The only true enemy is liberalism which seeks to undermine our Constitution. "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes, liberalism wants to undermine the Constitution. Oh, yes. All the lefties want to strip away fundamental rights.

Christ, get a sense of history, will you? Conservatives would never have rebelled against King George III--everything's great as it is, right?

"I'm not claiming that it doesn't say what Donald Davis says but it sure isn't on page 1432 of the bill."

The "two lines" he addressed in the article are on page 1432, Danni. Those are the two lines that make states limiting attorney fees and imposing caps on damage awards ineligible for THIS, which is contained on page 1431...

"To the extent and in the
amounts made available in advance in appropriations
Acts, the Secretary shall make an incentive payment,
in an amount determined by the Secretary, to each
State that has an alternative medical liability law in compliance with this section."

OK, Danni...incentive payment...to each state...in compliance. If lawyers or damage awards limited, NOT in compliance so NO incentive award....get it, Danni?

"I doubt it is anywhere in the bill and that Mr. Davis knows that but thought he could make the claim and no one would bother to actually check."

Oh, poor Danni, I know it's difficult for you to accept and since Davis is a conservative (BAD!) you automatically dismis what he says, BUT...go back and read it all s-l-o-w-l-y. Take your time and maybe you can come to the realization Davis is absolutly correct.

I have come to realize that Danni wants medical employees to become state employees and will be happy with nothing less. She is more socialist than I ever imagined she was and is getting worse all the time. No matter how far left things go, she wants them to go further.

#118 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag: Lithium prescription unfilled

#123 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 11:12 AM

Pretty sad when someone claims to be in the field of psychiatry and jokes about someone needing lithium. Do you volunteer at mental hospitals so you can get a laugh from the patients as well? Pretty sick if you ask me.

Have any of your patients been cured? Or do you string them along and lie to them they are progressing?

danni is a 'baptized' member of the 'Rev Wright Oboner' congregation... she recites from the pamphlets fed to the worshippers... 'tired ole rhetoric'... her bible is the Oboner books...
most worshippers, like her, fall into the same category.. there is no reason to their rhetoric; just spit it out in a consistent form and that makes you a believer.. they cannot grasp intelligence from anyone who does not contribute and worship to the Oboner pilgrimage.. you either have to be Dem or you are a Repub... they cannot stand 'independents' because they cannot grasp any negative against the workings of Congress.. such 'stained glass' eyes...
she will also have cookies and milk out for Santa Clause tonight...!!!!!

"No matter how far left things go, she wants them to go further."

Except when the Feds are asked to go on the same program as the private industry. All of the sudden those requests are taboo.

But you were happy to toss the broad-brush statement out there, Ray. That's all I was saying. You seem quick to point at "those people." I hope they don't come steal your gold. : )
#130 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

I'm a Grinch.

#124 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag: Thinks "context" is an ebil concept

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 11:21 AM |

Thinks it depends on the definition of "is"....

start investing in companies that build jails and prisons.

good one..AUNTIESOCIAL...
and, the 'funeral' biz will prop up greatly under this bill...

""Page 1,432 contains two lines that prohibit states from receiving federal health-care assistance funds if they limit attorneys' fees or impose caps on damages.

This affects states that already have substantially reduced health-care costs (and attorneys' fees) by reining in out-of-control and unwarranted lawsuit awards.""

He claims it will prevent states from receiving federal health care assistance funds and that is simply not true.
Secondly, he says "This affects states that already have substantially reduced health-care costs" and that is baloney because tort reform has not substantially reduced health care costs. Study after study prove that.
Sorry, he's a right wing LIAR and you don't like it that I caught him.

not one comment here has any actual facts abou the bill. everywhere i look to find out what is actually in the bill only has a bunch of people slandering each other.

everywhere i look to find out what is actually in the bill only has a bunch of people slandering each other.

Congress had the same problem.

damn...she has already completed your reading list TEDLEY...

"I have come to realize that Danni wants medical employees to become state employees and will be happy with nothing less."

When you can find a post of mine where I ever said that let me know, meanwhile you are just another crank with nothing to say. If you have to make shit up then you have already lost the argument.

#139 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:30 AM | Reply | Flag: lol, still bashing Clinton after 10 years

Try to get a grip, Crispy Critter.

Legislation is now and always has been done this exact same way.... sorry to be the one to burst your virgin wingnut bubble.

And the Bill does provide for a black Muslim Socialist Single Payer Bogeyman under your bed at night, no cost to you.

Merry Christmas!!

(btw, you may have read here that I have degrees in psychology and counseling, which I do, but I do not practivce in that field.)

"If you have to make shit up then you have already lost the argument."

Which is why your are a perennial maiden on Drudge....

meanwhile you are just another crank with nothing to say

Stop reading my mind when I read your posts!

"your are"

you are

Let's clairify this monumental shit pile of a bill, the Democrats passed the bill NOT the Republicans.

Adios in 2010 fuckers.

We got it, Danni...

1. Democrats...("progressives")
...GOOD!
2. Republicans ("right wingers")...BAD!

You could reaaly shorten all your future posts just by posting a 1, a 2, or just the word, "both," when you want to convey your ideas to us. Thanks for keeping it simple for us, Danni.

The bill is a monstrasity.

If they change anything in the senate bill--like add the public option--the bill is dead. The senate won't pass it. Namely Lieberman.

If they keep it the same there are 30 members of congress who are against tax payer funding for abortions.

They won't vote for it. Hopefully they are better principled than the pro lifer Ben Nelson.

And if it isn't changed there are 40 liberal congress people who say they won't vote on it. I wouldn't rely on those votes as much--but some will vote no without the public option.

They need 218 votes whichever way they go and the starting number is 177 in both scenarios.

"I have come to realize that Danni wants medical employees to become state employees and will be happy with nothing less."

When you can find a post of mine where I ever said that let me know

If you said it expressly in a post, then I would not have to "realize it" as it would be crystal clear for all to see. I had to "come to realize it" by reading your posts in general and noticing the common theme, well, the OTHER common theme:

Medical workers =Evil Bastard Who Hate Humanity
Lawyers= Defenders of the Faith

Danni,

""Page 1,432 contains two lines that prohibit states from receiving federal health-care assistance funds if they limit attorneys' fees or impose caps on damages."

While both you and Davis are technically correct, he doesn't say ALL funds.

You miss the trees from the forest. The point that Davis is making is that Democrats are beholden to trial lawyers.

You have not dismissed this claim. You could ramble around the jungle about payments, but how would a medical liability reform look if it didn't cap damages? What would it do? But some states will want or need the undetermined amount of "incentive" funds. So they might drop the caps for dollars. The aftermath of this would look like vultures going after road kill.

-pro lifer Ben Nelson

What a maroon!

Man, you really have to walk lockstep with the Tight, eh?

The Sen Bill preserves current law on abortion, while the Stupek amendment tries to undermine current law.... just another effort to get around the SC, the Righty SC, which still won't give anti-Choicers their way.

(btw, you may have read here that I have degrees in psychology and counseling, which I do, but I do not practivce in that field.)

#147 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 11:37 AM |

Since you don't "practivce" and I guess that's why you feel it is OK to use the lithium lines, or imply someone has mental health issues because they don't agree with you? It that how you apply those degrees in psychology?

Who is John Gualt?

#157 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-12-24 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag: Gets whinier as the day goes on

Just admit you are wrong about the way this legislation came about being unique in any way, and then you won't look like such a crybaby.

"While both you and Davis are technically correct, he doesn't say ALL funds."

He definitely implies that any state that has tort reform will be prevented from receiving money from the federal government for health care and he also claims that tort reform has significantly reduced health care costs which it has been shown in many studies that it just isn't so. He must know that, he must also know the implied meaning of his whole article, he's just plain trying to mislead his readers. The health care reform bill has enough real problems with it that people like Davis shouldn't be making up more.

whoever is educating you is really feeding you a line of shit. Wake up to reality already!
#128 | POSTED BY KBM AT 2009-12-24 11:19 AM

I hope all of you who support this shit sandwich choke on your eggnog, and have to get rescued by NYC EMT's. Ho ho ho.
#6 | Posted by cookfish

I hope you lose your job, lose your health insurance, get cancer, wrack up 100's of thousands in medical bills, have to declare bankruptcy, lose your house and end up dying in the street-in severe pain.
merry fucking christmas.

#11 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Worth repeating.. maybe if we pray in a large enough group Santa can bring him cancer tonight.

"If you said it expressly in a post, then I would not have to "realize it" as it would be crystal clear for all to see."

I have expressly posted MANY TIMES that I want Medicare for Everyone, with premiums to be paid by working age people so that it will make Medicare solvent. I don't want anything for free but I also don't want to give away 30% of our health care dollars to insurance company leeches.
In that respect it is ironic that I would support this bill (while holding my nose) but we have to start somewhere and changes can be made later. To do nothing now would be a terrible defeat for the President at a time when America needs him to succeed.

"Worth repeating.. maybe if we pray in a large enough group Santa can bring him cancer tonight."

Be careful, as that Tea party guy found out, prayers can miss their target and hit someone you care about. Prayers are difficult to aim without a telescopic sight.

#100 | Posted by pragmatist

I truly feel for anyone that has lost a child but I don't have to agree with how they handle themselves afterwords. Nor in my post of short books for Danni to read do I really think Mrs Sheehan is unAmerican. But I'm willing to bet she has disdain for this country and the Bush administration and blames both for her loss. She's had her say, we listened, and at this point, speaking for myself, I would think it to be unhealthy to continue mourning over her loss instead of remembering his life. Spending the rest of her life pointing fingers and assigning blame will only serve to keep the wound open and prevent healing. I suspect, though I'm not an expert by any means, that this is what she wants.
As for Mr. Moore...He is as unAmerican as they come. AS your post suggest, he's in it for the money and he'll do what ever it take, not only to make money but to bring every-bodies, but his, shortcomings to bear.

Ray, you still sound paranoid, and I don't understand your point about dependent on government. Never mind that if things get as bad as you say, there are plenty of people whose incomes have no connection to government who will be pushed over the financial edge and could easily find their way to criminal action. Your rhetoric makes it sound as if you believe there are some special "civilization morals" in those who are "independent of government." Or the inverse.
#100 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST
I can't put a number on what proportion will riot and commit criminal acts. What I see is that the decades politicians have spent nurturing a dependence on government will backfire when the money runs out.

#125 | POSTED BY RAY

It only runs out when and if they say it runs out.. You forget the world economy is so integrally tied to each other that no single government will allow another large one to fail due to the fallout globally.

Money hasn't been worth anything since 1964..and is only worth something because we all agree its worth something.

"As for Mr. Moore...He is as unAmerican as they come."

Your hatred for him is no different than what you accuse others of, you just choose a different target for your hate. You don't have any way to know his motives and he made enough money off of Farenheit 911 so that he'll never need another dime.
I sincerely doubt money motivates him.

"What I see is that the decades politicians have spent nurturing a dependence on government will backfire when the money runs out."

Then I have to ask, if society is about to crumble and if money is about to be worthless then why do so many of the wealthy object to paying higher taxes??? If it could stave off the collapse of society wouldn't they be better off too???
If the money will soon be worthless then what do they have to lose????

Yet another post by Danni:
"If these people were pilots who repeatedly crashed airplanes they wouldn't be allowed to fly..."
________
Not a good comparison Danni, not to often you get second chances crashing a plane."
________
You're drinking again aren't you?

"I truly feel for anyone that has lost a child but I don't have to agree with how they handle themselves afterwords. Nor in my post of short books for Danni to read do I really think Mrs Sheehan is unAmerican. But I'm willing to bet she has disdain for this country and the Bush administration and blames both for her loss. She's had her say, we listened, and at this point, speaking for myself, I would think it to be unhealthy to continue mourning over her loss instead of remembering his life. Spending the rest of her life pointing fingers and assigning blame will only serve to keep the wound open and prevent healing. I suspect, though I'm not an expert by any means, that this is what she wants."

Right, you're not an expert. You have no idea. And you either ignored or didn't understand my question about epiphanies. I also don't see how you get to disdain for the country, unless you think any antiwar person has disdain for this country.

"As for Mr. Moore...He is as unAmerican as they come. AS your post suggest, he's in it for the money and he'll do what ever it take, not only to make money but to bring every-bodies, but his, shortcomings to bear."

Again how do you know? And lots of people right here on this list seem to think money-making is the height of what it means to be American. (The bottom-line argument.) So by that logic, Moore is the perfect American. But again, I think he's sincere in his criticisms, or his motivation. I think that many people who criticize this country or its government (like me) actually criticize because they want improvement. (Unlike some who just want presidents to fail...)

Just admit you are wrong about the way this legislation came about being unique in any way, and then you won't look like such a crybaby.

#159 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-24 11:55 AM

You ignorantly imply I accept this from the GOP. Unless of course you can link where I accepted this as how legislation should be done. From either party. Far cry from the fact you accept anything the dems do as good and anything the repubs do as bad. Figured someone with a couple of degrees could have figure that out. But then again in your world anyone who leans right has mental issues....

"Not a good comparison Danni, not to often you get second chances crashing a plane."

Tell that to the guy who had the wrong leg amputated and then had to still have the other leg amputated. Give him his $250,000 and say....oops sorry.

"You're drinking again aren't you?"

Too early. Later though we will be enjoying Chrismas Eve with family and a few drinks.

#166 | POSTED BY LEGIO
It only runs out when and if they say it runs out.. You forget the world economy is so integrally tied to each other that no single government will allow another large one to fail due to the fallout globally.

I full expect them to try to print their way out. That's only going to increase the cost of food, energy and commodities, and the rise in bankruptcies and foreclosures. The integration is a weakness that threatens to set off a chain reaction from one bankruptcy too many. Many nations are moving away from the dollar for that reason. The days of dollar hegemony are almost over.

Money hasn't been worth anything since 1964..and is only worth something because we all agree its worth something.

Fiat currencies have a long history that offers a guide to what to expect. Expect a shift from fiat currencies to commodity currencies. The dollar has had a reign of only forty years as money without gold backing. Gold and silver have thousands of years of history as money. The US cannot contain the shift any longer.

Your hatred for him is no different than what you accuse others of, you just choose a different target for your hate. You don't have any way to know his motives and he made enough money off of Farenheit 911 so that he'll never need another dime.
I sincerely doubt money motivates him.

#167 | Posted by danni

Danni not very many individuals have earned my "hate" not even Moore.
Economics 101, pay attention, I'll keep it simple.
the more you make the more money you need to make.
Besides the money Danni he NEEDS the attention, Mommy stopped breast feeding him to early.

Too early. Later though we will be enjoying Chrismas Eve with family and a few drinks.

Same here, love time with family.

One day if the factory I work at ever closes I know I will still have coverage. This is a great day for me and every American. Republicans don't deserve to be called American in my eyes!!!

"Besides the money Danni he NEEDS the attention"

More likely, IMHO.

"I full expect them to try to print their way out."

I don't doubt you are right about that but we should tax our way out like we did post WWII. Unfortunately, those with the money also own the media and any talk of increasing taxes is met with ridicule, taunts of socialist, etc.

"Early this morning, after weeks of raucous debate and exhausting negotiations, the U.S. Senate passed a historic health-care reform bill. The gravity of the rather solemn moment, however, was momentarily broken when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, the main architect of the bill's passage, accidentally voted against it."

I wonder if he was holding out for the $100 million dollar payday. This fucker is the face of the democratic party, and every fucking lib here. You all must be real proud he is in charge of the largest expansion in history.

Danni and the rest will be shaking their heads and thinking (using the term very loosely) WTF?
#31 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 09:28 AM

get a Minimum education before you open your clap trap
#36 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 09:40 AM

Danni....Now run along and read like a good girl
World's Shortest Books:#42 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 09:54 AM

Lemmings are small rodents, usually found in or near the Arctic, in tundra biomes. They are subniveal animals and together with the voles and muskrats, they make up the subfamily Democrats.
#64 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 10:18 AM

Jane Fonda
Cindy Sheehan
Michael Moore
#87 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 10:42 AM

Thinks she knows it all. Damn kids.
#115 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 10:59 AM

You're drinking again aren't you?
#169 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 12:17 PM

Besides the money Danni he NEEDS the attention, Mommy stopped breast feeding him to early.
#175 | POSTED BY TEDLY AT 2009-12-24 12:26 PM

Danni,

I see you were to focus of personal attacks for the points you made on healthcare passage. Interesting how the rwrs cannot civilly debate anything and only have ad hominem attacks and hysterical hyperbole to make their "arguments", eh? And it's always on every DR thread to show everyone how devoid of any ideas to fix the problems of taxpaying working Americans and the FAILED policies of their repug heroes. Sour grapes over and over.....

That must be what passes for thinking for the repug "party of NO" supporters, and why their party's leaders have turned out to be hysterical propagandists like rush, beck, savage, malkin, coulter, o'reilly, hannity and the like, eh?

Hysterical, hilarious and pathetic at once..

Merry Christmas to all

crispee

rub some vicks vaporub in your eyes for your whining and crying and then maybe you will get an audience for your hysterics....

I don't doubt you are right about that but we should tax our way out like we did post WWII. Unfortunately, those with the money also own the media and any talk of increasing taxes is met with ridicule, taunts of socialist, etc.
#178 | POSTED BY DANNI

That's equivalent to the medieval practice of blood letting. Government is dependent on the private economy for revenue. The more it taxes the private economy, the more it cripples its ability to produce taxable revenue. For a long time raising taxes would work. But this time the blood letting has gone too far. In 2010, you'll begin to see states and local governments go into default.

rub some vicks vaporub in your eyes for your whining and crying and then maybe you will get an audience for your hysterics....

#181 | Posted by woke at 2009-12-24 12:56 PM

Funny coming from the fucking crybaby who whines "nobody likes me". Why doesn't anyone pay attention to what I say?" "I post at newshounds because there people think I am informed"

I don't post in need of an audience. Like some lonely, obsolete fool as yourself. Eh? LOL? Think?

Danni you forgot all the other topics on DR that I attack as well. But you got to admit the books were funny. Tell me an Amish phone book isn't funny stuff. It's just most people quit while ahead. You don't though. You just keep on diggin it deeper so I just bath you in the attention you so urgently want and deserve.

So on a positive note: May you and your loved ones have a remarkably safe and merry Christmas.

From the Tedly household to all the Dr folks, enjoy the holidays, eat drink and be merry, and enjoy your new found freedoms in America's healthcare reform

who whines "nobody likes me".
#183 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-12-24 01:07 PM

That's funny. The TRUTH is that your lil buddies constantly try to point out that no one likes me here on DR, which in fact is not the case, and my response is always the same.....which is: I don't post here to make friends and gain supporters for my pov, but to post truth to the LIES and MISINFORMATION posted by rw trolls, exactly like the LIE you posted there....

eh?

It is you and your "crybaby" rw buddies who are crying after months of claiming Obama cannot get anything done or passed......now that he has repeatedly done so, it's all crying and whining from you and your buddies.......

WHAAA, healthcare for all Americans got passed......

Better go back to your PORN crispee....

Can't wait for the adult film industry to spoof a porn about Michelle, ala "Nailin Palin".
#89 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-11-26 09:56 AM

LMFAO

"That's equivalent to the medieval practice of blood letting."

That's your way of viewing it, I think the more normal way would be to think of taxes as income for the government with which the government pays its bills. We owed a larger percentage of GDP post WWII than we do now and guess what....we paid it down by taxing Americans. We did it then we can do it now.
If what you claim about the economy has even the slightest validity to it then why would you object to taxing the rich? The money will soon be worthless anyway.

We don't dislike you woke, you're just stupid is all. Not a reason to be disliked. Oh and until you're done with your 2 yro temper tantrum you should go to you room for a time out. Feel free to join us when you grow up though. Having an intelligent conversation can be so refreshing. You should try it sometime.

WHAAA, healthcare for all Americans got passed......

Better go back to your PORN crispee....

Can't wait for the adult film industry to spoof a porn about Michelle, ala "Nailin Palin".
#89 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-11-26 09:56 AM
LMFAO

#185 | Posted by woke at 2009-12-24 01:19 PM

Maybe you need someone to read to you that this bill still leaves 16 million without coverage.

who whines "nobody likes me".
#183 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-12-24 01:07 PM

You seem to forget that it was YOU who cried like a sniveling, little whiner that you get no respect around here.

Can't wait for the adult film industry to spoof a porn about Michelle, ala "Nailin Palin".
#89 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-11-26 09:56 AM
#185 | Posted by woke at 2009-12-24 01:19 PM |

Why don't you link the thread to that satirical post I wrote? Or is satire beyond your pathetic, whining, Depends wearing ass?

We don't dislike you woke, you're just stupid is all. Not a reason to be disliked. Oh and until you're done with your 2 yro temper tantrum you should go to you room for a time out. Feel free to join us when you grow up though. Having an intelligent conversation can be so refreshing. You should try it sometime.

#187 | Posted by Tedly at 2009-12-24 01:27 PM

He seems to have the same repsect at newshounds, which he was suspended from posting. Of course it had nothing to do with personality, just pure stupidity and ignorance.

I could give a crap less what a group of rw trolls think, who post BS on a liberal site and think they've won some vicarious "victory" after watching their failed repug party LOSE the last two elections...... Guess you cannot understand my last post on that pathetic LIE by crispee.

.I'll just add that to the multiple postings of yours on this thread that insult, namecall and otherwise attack posters instead of attempting civil and intelligent debate Tedly.....

Following in the footsteps of the remaining "leaders" of the failed neocon/repug party, eh?

rove, hannity, o'reilly, rush, savage, beck....etc....etc,....etc...a
d infinitum

Hilarious and Pathetic.....

"I don't want anything for free but I also don't want to give away 30% of our health care dollars to insurance company leeches."

Try 3%. if your very generous, then 5%. Truth is, insurance companies have very low, like Wal Mart low, profit margins. Don't believe me however. Look them up for yourself. You could make all insurance companies non-profit, and at at best you would reduce costs by 5%. 3%-4% would be more likely. And that would be if the companies operated as efficiently under the new guidelines as they did under the old.

"You don't have any way to know his motives and he made enough money off of Farenheit 911 so that he'll never need another dime. I sincerely doubt money motivates him."

Michael Moore is an entertainer. He tells people what they want to hear, and they pay him for it. He is absolutely no different from Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. It's his job, and he's very good at it.

#186 | POSTED BY DANNI

Total government debt and obligations ~ $150 Trillion.
GDP of which government is about half ~ $14 Trillion.
Federal revenue ~ $2 Trillion.

Just so we are clear, I'm saying your tax-the-rich schemes will only cause another drop in revenues.
Find out the hard way.

I've accepted and prepared for what is going to happen. I don't give a shit anymore.

189

Interesting how you continue spew MISINFORMATION given you by a poster who is indeed BANNED at NH, while I continue to post there.....which of course PROVES that what you say is a LIE.

eh buddyboy?

"Try 3%. if your very generous, then 5%. Truth is, insurance companies have very low, like Wal Mart low, profit margins."

Reported profit has little to do with the truth.
TAke away exorbidant executive salaries and bonuses, excessive advertising, very bloated administrative staffs mainly concerned with denying claims and you would get a clearer picture.
Fomer health care executive Wendel Potter agrees with the 30% figure.

"Total government debt and obligations ~ $150 Trillion."

Where does this figure come from???

"Michael Moore is an entertainer. He tells people what they want to hear, and they pay him for it."

He tells people the truth as he sees it. His expose on health care was very informative. Just because someone gets paid for doing something does not necessarily prove they don't also have other motivations for what they do. Surgeons get paid but do all of them only practice because of the money???

Now that it appears that a Health Care Bill actually will become the law of the land, hopefully everyone, including those who virulently opposed it, can come together as Americans and work together to make it as beneficial as possible. The argument is over. Time to pull together as one team. At this point rightwing sniping becomes not only pointless, but downright unpatriotic. Decision has been made. Let's make it work.

"Total government debt and obligations ~ $150 Trillion."
Where does this figure come from???

#197 | Posted by moder8
Now that it appears that a Health Care Bill actually will become the law of the land, hopefully everyone, including those who virulently opposed it, can come together as Americans and work together to make it as beneficial as possible. The argument is over. Time to pull together as one team. At this point rightwing sniping becomes not only pointless, but downright unpatriotic. Decision has been made. Let's make it work.
----------------
Thank god they didn't follow that philosophy when it came to salvery.

If you don't like somthing you need to work overturn it.

"Now that it appears that a Health Care Bill actually will become the law of the land, hopefully everyone, including those who virulently opposed it, can come together as Americans and work together to make it as beneficial as possible."

MODER8 I wish that could be but we both know it won't. Expect the attacks and the divisions to get worse as the 2010 election approaches. It's all about taxes, it is always all about taxes. Even though the bill is expected to reduce the deficity it will be used in the campaign to paint Democrats as big spenders by the same folks who ran up the debt under Bush, Bush, Reagan.

Wke you don't get out much do you. Sorry about that rash by the way. You should get it checked out. The bright side is you make it easier for me to appreciate where I know the retard payment part of health care goes...You

Did 90c2cab just compare a Bill that would provide healthcare to millions of uncovered Americans to slavery? Seriously. Wow. I'm not even sure how to respond if that really is the typical uber rightwing mindset.

He tells people the truth as he sees it. His expose on health care was very informative. Just because someone gets paid for doing something does not necessarily prove they don't also have other motivations for what they do. Surgeons get paid but do all of them only practice because of the money???

#196 | Posted by danni

You're kidding, right?

Moder8 pleads, "Now that it appears that a Health Care Bill actually will become the law of the land, hopefully everyone, including those who virulently opposed it, can come together as Americans and work together to make it as beneficial as possible."

None of you Democrats could bring yourselves to patriotically support our commander in chief during war, and demand that we show patriotism by supporting a Democrat commander in chief during war ...

Isn't that being an hypocrite? I mean, you infer that anyone who won't work to make this communistic effort a success is un-American ... aren't you the typical little dictator trying to force your opinion ... or what?

"The argument is over."

The "debate" was not allowed! It was dictatorially voted *NO TIME* for debate, in order for you tyrant wannabes to shove it down the throats of Americans, which majority did not want it ... or begged for time to read the bill and make it acceptable ...

Now, you stooges for communism come out and demand:

"Time to pull together as one team."

Everyone should now get-in-step with you goosestepping socialists ... or what? What will you do, if Americans still don't want to be the health slaves of Democrats?

"At this point rightwing sniping becomes not only pointless, but downright unpatriotic."

How does my disagreement with the effort to communize the US economy "unpatriotic"? Did I aid the enemy we are still fighting under Obama, by calling Obama a murderer, torturer, evil, warmonger, criminal, butcher, ad nauseam, as you faithless, scurrilous, subversive, tacit traitor Democrats did ...???

Go right to hell, you idiot, commie party stooge ...

It's all about taxes, it is always all about taxes. Even though the bill is expected to reduce the deficity it will be used in the campaign to paint Democrats as big spenders by the same folks who ran up the debt under Bush, Bush, Reagan.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Reduce the deficit? Don't make me laugh.

See. Even Tadowe is on board. If even he can get behind healthcare and now support it, I'm sure the rest of you rightwingers can.

(Pause while someone whispers in my ear.)

Ummmm... Nevermind.

#207 | POSTED BY MODER8

No thanks. I'll just stand on the side and watch it go over the cliff.

Moder8 misdirects, "See. Even Tadowe is on board. If even he can get behind healthcare and now support it, I'm sure the rest of you rightwingers can."

Mock me, stupid. That's what I say is the level of any effort to discuss you party stooges can rise to, either that or orders. So, avoid that your party thought you were being patriotic for undermining the reputation of the USA by demeaning our commander in chief as being evil and vile, a warmonger and torturer, and make me your subject to demean for not abiding by your demands, or else!

Or else, you will mock and revile them for describing your hypocrisy and reasoning why you are the hatemongers for votes that you happen to be.

I suggest you run off in shame, but I'm sure you'll come back and whine ...

Let me guess...Tadowe and Woke are conjoined twins connected mouth to ass. I'm close aren't I?, That was easy. Thank you thank you, it's a gift really.

"
Gross federal debt going to heaven.
1.bp.blogspot.com"

From that site:

"IMPORTANT WARNING: The video goes offline this coming week. Plus, at the same time, your opportunity to save $307 by joining me now during our deeply discounted Introductory period will also end.

Best wishes,

Larry"

In other words this guy doesn't really even believe his own stuff. I'm sorry but someone who makes a business of selling economic information who claims the sky is falling is a joke.
At least the born again Christians who really believe the end is near don't ask us to pay them to tell us to repent. Why??? Because they actually do believe it.
Someone charging $307 to tell me how bad things are obviously doesn't really even believe they are that bad because the money he is charging will soon be worthless according to his own comments.

"Let me guess...Tadowe and Woke are conjoined twins connected mouth to ass."

I don't know what some of you have against WOKE but he is certainly not in the same league as the one, the only....Tadowe.

"Let me guess...Tadowe and Woke are conjoined twins connected mouth to ass. I'm close aren't I?, That was easy. Thank you thank you, it's a gift really."

Not that Tadowe needs me to defend him... But to insinuate he has anything in common with Woke is laughable. Tad provides some pretty good insight, where Woke is a simpleton, who is laughed at on every forum he is stupid enough to join.

"where Woke is a simpleton, who is laughed at on every forum he is stupid enough to join."

Translation from right wing lingo:

Woke's posts make monkeys out of righties.

#212 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2009-12-24 02:25 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Reaches for any straw she can find.

Woke's posts make monkeys out of righties.

Woke makes a monkey only out of himself.

Ah you just tolerate Woke cause he's a lefty. So in this case its Wokes ass to Tads mouth.

Tedly projects, "... Tadowe and Woke are conjoined twins connected mouth to ass."

Here we go! More unreasoned abuse from the party of communist wannabes!

Woke's posts make monkeys out of righties.

Woke makes a monkey only out of himself.

#217 | Posted by goatman at 2009-12-24 02:32 PM

Which is why danni puts him in the same light as her.

"Reaches for any straw she can find."

Then you explain the contradiction Ray.
I am just tired of people like you who pretend to believe the collapse is near but who still operate as if nothing will ever really change. And it is ridiculous to count future unfunded liabilities as part of the debt. Talk about reaching for straws to support your argument. Trust me or don't, the United States will still be here long after you and I are both long gone.

"Ah you just tolerate Woke cause he's a lefty."

I just haven't ever read a post of Woke's that wasn't intelligent nor have I seen him go out of his way to attack but it seems I see him being attacked relentlessly. Perhaps I missed something, I generally avoid all flame wars, just scroll past, they bore me and I try to never participate in them though I'm sure there have been a few episodes.

"I just haven't ever read a post of Woke's that wasn't intelligent"

LOL!!

Thank you Danni.....

That has to be the funniest thing I've read in ages

Too Funny
.

Danni dismisses all argument, just like a Democrat senator, "... the United States will still be here long after you and I are both long gone."

Ergo, even if a land where dictatorial communism is being evolved, it will remain the same material portion of the planet ... that's what you mean to say. That's because, our constitution won't protect individuals anymore, since it will be at the dictation of Democrats who pretend that their efforts aren't against that law, but which will allow them to continue to undermine our economy and individual freedom and liberty for "free" medical care ...

... similar vermin pretend that Cuba has the best medical care in the world, ala another of the Democrat communists: Michael Moore who Danni respects ...

"Sum of government and private sector debt ~ $174.1 Trillion."

OMG!!!! IT grew by 24 Trillion in just an hour.

"ala another of the Democrat communists: Michael Moore who Danni respects ..."

Yeah, he's one of them there millionaire entrepreneurial communists.

I just haven't ever read a post of Woke's that wasn't intelligent...

I guess you missed the series of posts where he claimed he was close personal friends with John Glenn, John Kerry, and Max lleland and stood by them in Viet Nam.

Even if you believe that, keep in mind Glenn wasn't in Viet Nam.

I just haven't ever read a post of Woke's that wasn't intelligent

Maybe you think his refusal to acknowledge facts he doesn't like to see is an act of intelligence. Personally, I don't. Our milage varies on that one, I guess, Danni. That is one thing I respect about you, Danni. You are able to acknowledge your errors. Woke doesn't have that capability. I see that as a sign of extreme weakness.

I am just tired of people like you who pretend to believe the collapse is near but who still operate as if nothing will ever really change.

Don't lie. I don't buy gold because it's pretty.

And it is ridiculous to count future unfunded liabilities as part of the debt. Talk about reaching for straws to support your argument.

It's no straw when the feds have to start dipping into the general fund while baby boomers are near retirement age. The dipping starts next year.

Trust me or don't, the United States will still be here long after you and I are both long gone.

That's irrelevant. Of course the US will still be here after us.

Danni spins 180, "... but it seems I see him being attacked relentlessly."

Is that bad, Danni? Or, is that a case of you political stooges getting some of yours back, in kind?

I suggest you look into the dedication of this site, and realize that your pack of canines has been reviling others since this blog's inception ...

I'm here, myself, to call you liars and party zealots what I found you calling fellow Americans when I first surfed into this site dedicated to intransigent hatemongering ...

... and I will continue to reason why you partisan leftists are by far the worst example sof the tendency for humans to become slaves to party and form into gangs of dumbed down idiots, like you and your communist yearning ilk, Danni ...

Well Tadowe once again you've proved your only redeeming value is your ability to mirror the behavior of Woke and the ability to have the damnedest thing running through that feeble little mind of yours. But thats ok cause we will still let you play here as long as you keep your chin strap tight and don't lick the windows.

"I guess you missed the series of posts where he claimed he was close personal friends with John Glenn, John Kerry, and Max lleland and stood by them in Viet Nam."

I didn't see that post and I really don't want to go there now. Woke is a big boy I;m sure and can take care of himself but it does seem that he gets ganged up on.

"I'm here, myself, to call you liars and party zealots what I found you calling fellow Americans when I first surfed into this site dedicated to intransigent hatemongering ..."

Gee, and all this time I just thought you wanted to show off your vocabulary.

But thats ok cause we will still let you play here as long as you keep your chin strap tight and don't lick the windows.

#232 | Posted by Tedly at 2009-12-24 02:53 PM

Afterall I have been here a month now and know what I am talking about.lol

"That's because, our constitution won't protect individuals anymore, since it will be at the dictation of Democrats who pretend that their efforts aren't against that law, but which will allow them to continue to undermine our economy and individual freedom and liberty for "free" medical care ..."

Were you saying this kind of alarmist shit while the previous admin (yes, often helped by Dems) was whittling away at civil liberties and constitutional and states' rights? If not, you really shouldn't have said this...

OMG!!!! IT grew by 24 Trillion in just an hour.
#226 | POSTED BY DANNI

WTF? Estimates vary which is why I used the "~" symbol. If you want to argue over the significance between $150 Trillion and $174 Trillion, be my guest.

It's fascinating to watch how you and others refuse to deal with a reality in which you can't cope.

I just haven't ever read a post of Woke's that wasn't intelligent...

You think spamming bible verses and snippets from left wing (or any) web sites is intelligent?

Honestly, Danni -- you must have missd a very high percentage of his post if you've never seen one that wasn't intelligent. I'm talking 99% or more that you've missed.

Tedly says, "Well Tadowe once again you've proved your only redeeming value is your ability to mirror the behavior of Woke and the ability to have the damnedest thing running through that feeble little mind of yours."

You jerks are incapable of 'getting it'! I'm here to be your mirror image BUT to reason my efforts to describe you as the hatemongers you are!

This move to provide "free" medical care is SOCIALISM. Socialism when applied to the economy is against the American way of life, which was designed to protect against redistribution of wealth and property of the individual by government distraint ...

You Democrats are starting the process which has destroyed all the democracies of past history, and which our constitution was designed to stop!!!

You don't know about that, and you don't care, just so you can get something you think you might need without paying for it!!!

You selfish idiots will destroy the nation with your efforts to get "stuff" from government, at the expense of those who earned it ...

You deserve to be called and considered MUCH WORSE than my limited ability can provide ... you moronic vermin ...

And lilaWoke's broadbrusing? That's intelligent? IMO, stereotyping is the ultimate act of ignorance. But I guess you missed those posts of his too, Danni.

"moronic vermin"

Yeah, we know Vernon's a moron.
Got anything original you puling lunatic?

Actually I've been here or a couple years but as a lurker not a poster under the name tccd106. I don't really know to much more than the rest of you but I'm light years ahead of Tad and Woke

#239 | Posted by goatman

Woke also believes in posting his 'fav tunes from the 60's to 'prove' his points.....

The boy does have one hell of an imagination
.

Zat says, "Got anything original you puling lunatic?"

What do I need "original", Zat? It is sufficient to notice that the Democrat party is attempting to acquire power by socializing the American economy.

Of course, that move isn't "original" and since it has been the fact of socialism over-and-over in every effort that redistribution of wealth is attempted: failed government, and failed nation.

It also leads to starvation, riots and a repeat of the historical cycle to tyranny ...

The entire party is complicit in this effort which has led to the destruction of every democracy which has ever used to the vote to redistribute the wealth of a capitalist economy.

Everyone who reads what I've just said can confirm the facts I've stated for themselves. It isn't a lie and it isn't unpatriotic to revile that which has led to every nation's destruction that have tried it.

In fact, it deserves much stronger language and explanation of how vile and selfish you Democrats are to do so, in the face of history.

I'd love to coin of word which would instantly shame all you stupid jerks into reality ... but commie vermin will have to do from me ...

You f'ing Commie Vermin!

"This move to provide "free" medical care is SOCIALISM. Socialism when applied to the economy is against the American way of life, which was designed to protect against redistribution of wealth and property of the individual by government distraint ..."

Interesting take. Of course, socialism wasn't even an idea (well, under that name) at the time of the American Revolution, and the yeoman farmers were actually fighting to protect their own assets, and from a king who would take it for himself, not redistribute it to the people. And certainly, there are ways to interpret the founders' ideas as being in favor of what would later come to be called socialism--as in, helping the masses, preventing them from being ripped off by kings.

Is there something specific in the Constitution that people of your alignment can point to as being violated? Specific, please. I haven't seen it, and I don't expect to. Those who make the argument that providing healthcare access etc. seem to have as much to stand on as you naysayers do.

Tadowe's party affiliation:

Tedly brags, "Actually I've been here or a couple years but as a lurker not a poster under the name tccd106. I don't really know to much more than the rest of you but I'm light years ahead of Tad and Woke"

Well, then you can reason why this effort wasn't dictatorial and knowlingly done against the majority will of the public?

Then, you can reason why this isn't socialism of the economy, and which has led to the destruction of all democracies who have done so, as I've done to show they do?

Go ahead, reason instead of bragging about it, and explain why efforts to socialize a nation's economy is not a move to communism, genius ...

"It's fascinating to watch how you and others refuse to deal with a reality in which you can't cope."

Ray, it's Christmas Eve and perhaps a sense of humor will help all of us get through whatever comes our way in the new year....I just hope and pray it is not what you so often predict. I really do hope you have a good Christmas and just enjoy the moment because if what you predict ever really does come you will regret all the time you wasted focusing on it instead of enjoying the good times while you still could.

That was sorta backhanded, Danni : ), but I'll just take this moment to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. Well, okay, not everyone. If Christmas pisses you off, let's just say I'm wishing you warmth and happiness at this cold and oddly celebratory time of year. Yes, even to my political enemies. : )

Pragmatist asks, "... providing healthcare access etc."

Taking money for taxes from individuals by distraint was forbidden by the constitution, which stated that the federal government would apportion taxes to the states by census and then require states to send their portion to the fed, as budget expenses.

You can't argue against that, and neither could the Democrats who didn't start collecting taxes using distraint until WWII, and they shoved "Voluntary Income Tax and Withholding" down the throats of Americans, as they are doing now with their move to communism ...

Care to try?

Danni and Pragmatist shmooze, "That was sorta backhanded, Danni : )"

But, you like it when done to a political opponent, like some unconscious hypocrite would ...

I'm not a Christian, so Danni can't suborn my opinion with a false show of bon hominy they obviously eschew as normal behavior.

You cake eaters want to have your insults and make insults "bad" at the same time ... world class hypocrites ...

#246 | Posted by tadowe
Obviously you only read posts that have your name in them or you would know that I'm a conservative and very much against the Ideology of the Democratic Party, you attention whore you. Just ask Danni.
And really I love the way you interject your own words and meaningless thoughts like,
Tedly brags, Tedly projects... nice touch for some one who never got the Christmas presents he wanted or being abused by the midget clown with a dick.
You truly are a simpleton. You're a failed Psychiatrist aren't you?

So taxation is unconstitutional (link or citation to specific article, please), which we've heard before. Okay, so it's not this specific health care concern you have, but all taxation? What about money going to wars, highways, etc.? That bad, too? Or is it just money taken "by distraint" that is used for causes of which you do not approve? (Sorry, that was more snarky than I intended.) But a serious question. (And neat ignoring of my point about redistribution for personal gain vs. redistribution for the common good. Of course, that's not a constitutional argument, but a matter of historical interpretation.)

"But, you like it when done to a political opponent, like some unconscious hypocrite would ..."

Okay, Tad. Need I go to "fuck you"? I was upbraiding Danni with a smile 'cause it was kinda funny, not 'cause I hate you or something. I do find you often vitriolic and given to passing judgment on other based on disagreement, but I have never gotten personal with you. Maybe I should start.

I guess you couldn't handle my sincere warm wishes.

All right, so I will now extend my warm wishes to everyone except the miserable Tadowe. Feel better now that I'm living up to your assumptions about me?

#253 | Posted by pragmatist

You can go easy on Tad if you want. It's just the booze and drugs talking. For a sad little man with a sad little life it could be worse. He could be Woke.

Did I mention they might be conjoined twins?

#247 | POSTED BY DANNI

Thank you, Danni. I see life as a process of navigation, of looking ahead for danger and steering around if possible. If impossible, of preparing for contingencies. Being out of debt with substantial savings gives me peace of mind.

The Ant and the Grasshopper

IN a field one summer's day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart's content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.
"Why not come and chat with me," said the Grasshopper, "instead of toiling and moiling in that way?"
"I am helping to lay up food for the winter," said the Ant, "and recommend you to do the same."
"Why bother about winter?" said the Grasshopper; "we have got plenty of food at present." But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew:
"IT IS BEST TO PREPARE FOR THE DAYS OF NECESSITY."

Well Tedly is off to visit with kids and grandkids. Thank you all for the stimulating conversations of today, please don't take to much offense to my ramblings, and remember with little exception the insults I hurl are with a smile on my face and hopes that everyone gets what they want out of life.

Merry Chriistmas, be safe and healthy

Well Tedly is off to visit with kids and grandkids.

Merry Christmas,tedly. Enjoy the family!

I'm starting to feel like all is lost now! I can't believe given the track record of government entitlement programs that so many people actually think this bill is going to make things better?

Its a total sham, both parties suck but the dems have taken it to new level. The president flat out lied about "working together", "it will all be on cspan" blah blah blah... and reid bought the votes he needed. how can this shit be legal??? oh and its just great that my tax money it going to be used to kill babies...

sad, sad times... just seems like there is no stopping the downward spiral of the country. So many young people feel "entitled" to everything without putting in any work?

This is the Christmas miracle I have been wanting for a very long time

Pragmatist, if you want to understand, then read the SC decision on the 16th amendment, and what the court says ...

... otherwise there is no help for your heuristic agreement and purposeful avoidance of the reality, and whatever your party you slavishly devote yourself to ...

Why is it that the same people who give Washington a blank check to start wars have such a big problem when the government spends money to take care of the people?

This bill puts the government in the business of ensuring that health insurance is available to all Americans, and in the long run that's a massive achievement for President Obama and the Democratic Party. The private insurance system failed. Government is the only entity capable of addressing the problem.

In 20 years, this bill will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare.

"This bill puts the government in the business of ensuring that health insurance is available to all Americans In 20 years, this bill will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare."

In 20 years medicare and social security will be broke
and the country will be bankrupt... If you are 40 or under you will never see the social security money you paid in. and If you do it will be at a huge burden to your kids... but let me guess you don't give a shit about paying for any of this right? Medicare and social security are so far in the hole its a joke, so whats your plan to fix those programs plus pay for the new "entitlement program" that just passed??? let me guess more taxes??? oh yeah and by the way unemployment is at 10% you think this is going to help grow the economy???

The private insurance system failed. Government is the only entity capable of addressing the problem.

Wrong, Rcade. Government's many interventions screwed up the private system.

In 20 years, this bill will be as popular as Social Security and Medicare.

Those Pyramid Schemes have no chance of lasting 20 years.

Tad certainly has a double standard when it comes to military waste and its moral depravity.

If private health insurers can run their ventures and make money, why can't the government run a budget-neutral health insurance program?

The government can afford these programs and more -- with no trouble at all -- if it stops being the world's policeman.

"If private health insurers can run their ventures and make money, why can't the government run a budget-neutral health insurance program?
The government can afford these programs and more -- with no trouble at all -- if it stops being the world's policeman."

damn, the trust you all have in your wonderful government boggles my mind... must be those "new classes" you all were taught in grade school or something.... THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T RUN ANYTHING!!!

If private health insurers can run their ventures and make money, why can't the government run a budget-neutral health insurance program?

Because political considerations take precedent over market considerations. The market pricing system provides a critical signal to the supply and demand of goods. Without it, bureaucracies have no viable rationing system. This is what plagued the Soviet Union.

The government can afford these programs and more -- with no trouble at all -- if it stops being the world's policeman.

In an ideal world, but our illustrious Nobel Peace Prize winner decided guns-and-butter politics shall remain in effect.

yep Ray, you are 100% correct! Too bad many people in this country don't understand it or don't give a shit??? In the blink of an eye we will be just like the old Soviet Union or Mexico's wonderful 2 class system...

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!

what amazes me about you libs is you cant admit when your wrong or your s "party" is wrong? instead of just saying "this bill sucks", you have to say "oh look at what bush did"

no child left behind sucks
iraq war sucks
AND THIS BILL sucks!!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Just a note... no matter the 'differences' in our philosophies and no matter who or what we support, the important thing to remember is to be active to support something..!!! Always...to borrow a phrase from a man that I have long admired (he is now deceased, but quite well known in some circles): "If you believe in yourself, have dedication and pride and never quit, you'll be a winner. The price of victory is high, but so are the rewards." said Paul 'Bear' Bryant..
the point here is that through all the 'retorts' and 'opinions' and actually, lots of education on these blogs, I hope that everyone will take a moment on Friday to reflect about sacrifices made far beyond what most humans will endure, except our great military people...that brought us to a life.. we have so much to be grateful for, despite differences, and I sincerely hope that anyone who will take a moment to read this will enjoy a great holiday season with their loved ones, friends and family.. we sometimes sling mud here along with the good.. I, for one, sincerely never intend anyone any personal degradation as more than a 'retort' and respect most all who take the time to contribute and dearly appreciate the education that I get from all walks of life and minds.. especially those who are well-intended..
let's all see if we can take at least one day, on Friday, and offer encouragement, and save all negative 'retorts, to each other and put the 'woes of the world' aside for 24 hours to reflect and enjoy just being here, at all..!!!
Merry Christmas..to all..!!!

In the blink of an eye we will be just like the old Soviet Union or Mexico's wonderful 2 class system...
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!

Right, that's the "America First!" attitude from the Right I find so perplexing. In one breath, America's the greatest, in the next we're so incompetent or health insurance be like Mexico instead of like Sweden, Germany or Australia.

Nothing but hypocrisy, and hypocrisy excused if it serves the agenda of fear.

or* = our

By the way, why are so many Americans moving to Mexico for health care these days? Curious inaccurate stereotype.

Why is it that the same people who give Washington a blank check to start wars have such a big problem when the government spends money to take care of the people?

#261 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-24 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Blank check? Iraq War through 2009 budget is at about $750 billion. The CBO estimates place the senate version of the HC reform bill at $850 billion over 10 years, which does not include the $350 billion required to keep Medicare solvent. Given the track record of 'estimated' cost verses actual cost for federal entitlement programs, the true costs will be about $3 trillion over 10 years. That does not include the funding for medicare which in actuality will be another $1 trillion.

So where is the blank check for wars verses the blank check for entitlements?

"Blank check? Iraq War through 2009 budget is at about $750 billion."

FAIL.

It must be nice to be able to completely ignore replacement costs, increased medical care costs, and increased pension costs...which dwarf your ludicrous 'bottom line'.

Fiat currencies have a long history that offers a guide to what to expect. Expect a shift from fiat currencies to commodity currencies. The dollar has had a reign of only forty years as money without gold backing. Gold and silver have thousands of years of history as money. The US cannot contain the shift any longer.

#174 | Posted by Ray

Sorry ray.. that won't work with Gold or silver.. two commodities that have an intrinsic value separate from that of a currency. You cannot have a duel demand for a product. Gold and silver both have industrial and medical value which diminish/increase the available stock and in turn make the value fluctuate.

You would have to go with something that cannot be depleted with 10 billion souls drawing upon the product in another capacity.. paper is the most valuable transferable asset. Paper is backed by a real asset.. the combined productivity/raw materials of a nation.

"Right, that's the "America First!" attitude from the Right I find so perplexing. In one breath, America's the greatest, in the next we're so incompetent or health insurance be like Mexico instead of like Sweden, Germany or Australia.
Nothing but hypocrisy, and hypocrisy excused if it serves the agenda of fear."

Thanks, means so much coming from you!!! I really don't expect you to understand... You and your kind won't be happy till big daddy government takes care of you from cradle to grave. Tells you what to drive, what to eat, force you to buy health insurance and on and on and on...

Problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other peoples money!

The CBO estimates place the senate version of the HC reform bill at $850 billion over 10 years, which does not include the $350 billion required to keep Medicare solvent.

Those numbers are incorrect. The CBO has estimated that the Senate bill will save $100 billion dollars over the next decade, and some health care economists believe it will save considerably more than that.

"some health care economists believe it will save considerably more than that."

I'll add to that.

As one who has studied both (health care and economy), if this helps stem medical inflation, $100 billion will become chump change compared to what it will save.

"Pragmatist, if you want to understand, then read the SC decision on the 16th amendment, and what the court says ...

... otherwise there is no help for your heuristic agreement and purposeful avoidance of the reality, and whatever your party you slavishly devote yourself to ..."

Got a link? I'm happy to be educated. But again, you didn't actually answer my question, and you spend a whole fragment insulting me. This is why talking with you is beyond irritating. I don't avoid any reality, thank you very much, and I know not how you reach that conclusion. Never mind party politics--have you ever read my posts? I am probably among the five last partisan people here--though it does happen that my worldview and beliefs tend to land me in Democrat land.

"some health care economists believe it will save considerably more than that."
I'll add to that.
As one who has studied both (health care and economy), if this helps stem medical inflation, $100 billion will become chump change compared to what it will save.

#278 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I agree..especially since the ones raising hell have no problem dropping 700+ million each year on the military.

you all are idiots I swear!

Huge Government Entitlement Program = SAVINGS????

ahhhhh yeah ok, sure it must be true since someone said its so huh????

and lets say somehow this is true... at what cost dumbass???

let me guess... in your fairy tail world we completely change the healthcare system, gut medicare and raise everyones taxes and some how things become "better" for the hard working middle class family???

never have I seen so many lemmings fall off the cliff...

and please stop with the Bush argument... Bush was a dumbass, but his policies have nothing to do with what the dems are doing now...

you all are idiots I swear!
Huge Government Entitlement Program = SAVINGS????

#281 | POSTED BY CMON

You need to take a basic Economics class..

Costs are not the only side of the equation. Productivity from a healthy workforce is the other.

The entitlement plan is already in place. The problem is that there are middlemen profiting from it that account for too many dollars of our combined GDP.

How is it that so many European countries that have this so called "drain" on their economies are even solvent much less thriving after 30+ years?

Luuuucy.. you have some 'splainin' to do.
.

So, you honestly think that this bill is going to make us healthier??? WOW! keep living in your fantasy land... News flash... WE ARE NOT EUROPE!!! Compare the tax rate in these wonderful European countries to ours... Do they pay more or less then us? are they more or less prosperous or productive? Do they spend more or less on medical research and life saving drugs??? but I'm sure you are going to tell me how much better the health care is and how much shorter the wait times are huh? you love to compare our 300 million + fat, no exercise, mcdonalds eating population to lets say Canada or Sweden? same thing huh??? what they do will work perfect here huh???

as soon as we get to the point where "hard work" does not equal "more money" I'm sure you will happier then a pig in shit! I'll never understand it...

The fact that you and your kind want to turn us into a soccer watching nanny state makes me sick...
but hey what can you do, I guess you all have control now... "WE WON" huh???

while the dems piss away stimulus money and tax and spend us to bankruptcy, half my family is un-employed and can't buy a damn job!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

oh and the so called "drain" you are talking about is simply moving from the "middleman" to the govt in this bill. tell me, what happened to the tort reform??? what happened to "it will be out out in the open and on cspan??? " guessing you are ok with the full 2000 + page bill and the fact that 13 senator votes were bought? Do you think the new taxes on medical devices etc... wont be passed on to the consumer? Do you think its ok to force people to have healthcare? Do we have the resources to start locking up the millions of people who wont pay for it??

Do you think that maybe we could have started with a few obvious things that would have actually helped, maybe a 2 page bill???

I read so much here from folks that believe this bill will destroy America.
Please, let me help you feel more at ease a minute.
Recognize that the SCOTUS wont permit this kind of unfair competition to remain law.

Would SCOTUS allow 1 insurance company to take premium payments from non-participants, under penalty of law, while preventing all of that company's competition from doing the same? Of course not.

Would SCOTUS allow 1 insurance company immunity from regulation by each State's Insurance Commissioner while requiring all of that company's competition to be subjected to them? Of course not again.

The only way to resolve these issues is to either level the playing field or eliminate the playing field all together.
Who wants to be the 1st politician propose sweeping subsidization of all private insurance companies and eliminate scrutiny by each State's Insurance Commissioner in order to pass a Constitutional challenge? Would that even pass a Constitutional challenge?
The other option is to outlaw private insurance and create a monopoly system for the remaining 1 company. A perpetually corrupted Congress will be as likely to turn it's back on Big Insurance and all that money as it does with Big Oil, Big Banks and Wall Street.

Truth is, the healthcare debate is and always has been about political power, division and diversion. Congress may be corrupt and self serving but they also know bad law when they write it. To them, it really doesn't matter if it goes into effect as long as it keeps the Surfs at each others throats and corrals them all into casting ballots against the 'Bad Team'. Hell, it doesn't even go into effect for years...so as to reap the most distracted, angry mob, vote swinging political benefit out of it.

If any one doubts what I have written, feel free to set me strait. In the mean time, watch and see how soon the court challenges are filed after Obama signs this into law...watch what the predominate topic of the next several election cycle's stump speeches and political ads are about.

Do I expect a comment or constructive criticism on the above opinion?
I've never had one yet...

I read so much here from folks that believe this bill will destroy America.
Please, let me help you feel more at ease a minute.
Recognize that the SCOTUS wont permit this kind of unfair competition to remain law.

Would SCOTUS allow 1 insurance company to take premium payments from non-participants, under penalty of law, while preventing all of that company's competition from doing the same? Of course not.

Would SCOTUS allow 1 insurance company immunity from regulation by each State's Insurance Commissioner while requiring all of that company's competition to be subjected to them? Of course not again.

The only way to resolve these issues is to either level the playing field or eliminate the playing field all together.
Who wants to be the 1st politician propose sweeping subsidization of all private insurance companies and eliminate scrutiny by each State's Insurance Commissioner in order to pass a Constitutional challenge? Would that even pass a Constitutional challenge?
The other option is to outlaw private insurance and create a monopoly system for the remaining 1 company. A perpetually corrupted Congress will be as likely to turn it's back on Big Insurance and all that money as it does with Big Oil, Big Banks and Wall Street.

Truth is, the healthcare debate is and always has been about political power, division and diversion. Congress may be corrupt and self serving but they also know bad law when they write it. To them, it really doesn't matter if it goes into effect as long as it keeps the Surfs at each others throats and corrals them all into casting ballots against the 'Bad Team'. Hell, it doesn't even go into effect for years...so as to reap the most distracted, angry mob, vote swinging political benefit out of it.

If any one doubts what I have written, feel free to set me strait. In the mean time, watch and see how soon the court challenges are filed after Obama signs this into law...watch what the predominate topic of the next several election cycle's stump speeches and political ads are about.

Do I expect a comment or constructive criticism on the above opinion?
I've never had one yet...