"I do believe this is not an insurmountable issue. I think it can be worked out," said Stupak, who's talking it over with Nelson

and nelson said"hold out stup and you might get as much as i did"

Praise to Obama!
there is really nothing more to add)

Be Well.

"...mandate that individuals purchase coverage."
"It's long past time we declare health care a right and not a privilege,"

Where's the right when it's a mandate?

...both bills allow insurance companies to charge higher premiums for older customers."

Guess us older folk get fucked again.

I'm still trying to see the "America wins" in this

More people getting covered is a good thing unless you are a greedy fuck and only cares about taxes.

Just when you get recover from the Republicans, the Democrats bend you over...

Make no mistake. what they are doing is paying off the insurance/drug mafias. For the public this will be worse. And they owners of this country want it that way.

Pigs at the trough.

More people getting covered is a good thing unless you are a greedy fuck and only cares about taxes.

#4 | Posted by jackass

Guess I'm a greedy fuck then. The best part here being I'll collect my SSI, SSDI, Medicare, Medicaid, use my wife's Health Insurance to get the best care possible and all you idiot Dems get to foot the bill you so seemingly want to pay. Sorry Republicans I'm tired of playing the game. They asked for it now you ALL get it.

Yay! We now have to pay insurance companies! It's the law! Yay!

It'll now become illegal to breath in America. Unless you pay for insurance. Some "right".

just because you are unemployed is no reason that you cannot afford health insurance.

90 days in the slammer for you!

Oh Crap! we didn't think of that Auntisocial. If they can't afford insurance they can't afford attorneys to stay out of prison so we can raise taxes even more to build even more and bigger, and badder, prisons for those lazy scofflaws.

think about it, the little guy gets a chance to have insurance. what a concept

Then we'll put them on work release so's they can pay those damn taxes.

#14 | Posted by Beachbuzz

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.

America sold out to corporations again.

Listen up all retarded proponents of this bill. Making it illegal to be without insurance is NOT the same as making it available to everyone. Also, throwing blind support behind a bill when you have no idea what's in it, just because the used car salesmen on capital hill are calling it "reform" is the very definition of partisan hackary.

Try to pull your heads out of your asses long enough to witness yet another corporate bailout. This time the insurance companies get paid off. And all they had to do was write the bill. Sweet gig if you can get it. Unfortunately the taxpayers in this country can't get that gig.

Now back to your hackary, stooges of the two party corporatist system.

It's long past time we declare health care a right and not a privilege," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Too bad we aren't actually getting Health Care Reform. The "Party of NO!" has done a great job of destroying any chance of that this year. Buy stock in the HMOs and Big Pharma. They are very happy with this bill.

I had to put my wife in the hospital this year. I have FEHB Anthem coverage. Supposedly a "Cadillac" coverage plan. My out of pocket expenses may bankrupt me by next near as the HMO has done everything in it's power to make me pay out of pocket and I cannot afford a lawyer to fight them.

I had such high hopes for Congress doing the right thing by the American People. We really do deserve Health Care for all like all other major industrialized nations do for their People.

So now I am just hoping to survive the whole ordeal and manage to keep a roof over my children in the end.

So Fuck you Congress and Merry Christmas.

#4 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-23 05:52 PM | Reply | Flag: Un-ambitious under achiever.

It'll now become illegal to breath in America. Unless you pay for insurance. Some "right".

#9 | Posted by American1st at 2009-12-23 06:38 PM

I've been telling people for decades the day will come when they'll size you up and say you suck x x cubic feet of air per day and tax you accordingly. It'll follow cap and trade.

Don't worry - the dems have a backup plan.

What if (for example) it is determined that Mr.
and Mrs. Jones "can't afford" to pay for health
insurance? (Oh, my - what a terrible injustice!).

Solution - the "government" will pay for it.

Win - win. Meaning, this system will devour dollars
like nothing else we have ever seen.

The "gee whiz, everyone will have health care" mantra
is a nice, caring and sensitive sound bite, but
it will put a serious hurting on our lifestyles.

We can only hope that the damage can be reversed/mitigated.

just think if the queer senator wasnt so damn horny in the minneapolis bathroom. or if the jack ass in Va didnt insult the guy at his rally. ohh well, not the rwthugs fault.........my ass

Calm down repugs. I hear after the reform is implemented, being a Rightard will be classified as a bona fide mental illness and then you can get SSI checks and free Thorazine...

Praise be to Obama!
Be Well. -Skipper

Agreed, I am happy for the Democrats, they got what they wanted.

I hear after the reform is implemented, they will need to reform it again, and again, and again. But nothing will compare to this moment I am sure.

Good luck with the voters on that....

Congress and the senate should be held to the same standards of medical care as the rest of the serfs in this country.

Easy to vote on something when it doesn't apply to you huh?

"Let them eat cake."

"Let them eat cake."

I don't disagree with your inference, but Marie and her fellow elite had only had cake to eat for two weeks, although there was a lot of that available. As vacuous as her statement might have been, it was sincerely offered.

That's not the case with the socialist elitists that think they can now establish their utopia, here in the United States: an f'ing chicken in every f'ing pot, and they don't have to pay for it!

It's almost worth it to see you fucking libs reap what you sow.....except I'll be forced to reap it too. You can all go to hell.

What the right wing really fears is that in a few years, after the generated hysteria has gone down, that Americans will clearly see that this was the right thing to do. We are better off for it and the world has not ended. There will be less worry when your son with the diabetic child takes a chance on a startup, or your daughter loses her job, or your husband has a heart-attack and needs to take an extended leave of absence. That day will come, and then we can think back about how we almost didn't pass this law; how 100% of elected Republicans almost prevented it from happening, calling it 'socialism' or worse, making up wild accusations about Death Panels, rationing, or flight of doctors.

It's really fitting that we can add Health Care reform to the right wing's unblemished string of opposition to almost everything (except cutting taxes, unrestricted capitalism and fighting wars) including: Social Security, 40-hour work week, workplace safety, Women's Suffrage, voting rights, banking/financial regulation and Medicare.

We all know that it's not so much that they were really against it as that they just thought they could give that n**r in the white house a resounding defeat. Sorry.

Right. This is all about the color of Obama's skin. You are so intuitive. We just can't get past it. I'd rather have this country destroyed than put up with someone who has different skin than me. You figured it out all by yourself.

making up wild accusations about Death Panels, rationing, or flight of doctors

----

There will either have to be rationing to contain costs or...taxes and/or deficits out the whazoo.

Guess us older folk get fucked again.
I'm still trying to see the "America wins" in this

#3 | POSTED BY TEDLY

How so?

You already get more out of the system than you put into the system through Social Security and Medicare payouts.

America wins by having more people covered and paying into a system instead of taking and paying nothing into a system.

I'm all for public healthcare but it's going to be very difficult and painful to finance.

Guess I'm a greedy fuck then. The best part here being I'll collect my SSI, SSDI, Medicare, Medicaid, use my wife's Health Insurance to get the best care possible and all you idiot Dems get to foot the bill you so seemingly want to pay. Sorry Republicans I'm tired of playing the game. They asked for it now you ALL get it.

#7 | POSTED BY TEDLY

Spoken like a true boomer.

I'm all for public healthcare but it's going to be very difficult and painful to finance.

#31 | POSTED BY PIRATE

As opposed to a 2 trillion dollar rathole called IRAQ?

As opposed to 800 MILLION that we will piss away on the military next year?

Good lord people.

The same old red herrings.

Technology is going to make healthcare a money blackhole.

The same old red herrings.
Technology is going to make healthcare a money blackhole.

#34 | POSTED BY PIRATE

Explain how priorities are "red herring's"

A red herring is an intentional attempt to divert attention from a subject or argument.

This is isn't an attempt to do either. This actually is an attempt to broaden the discussion to include ALL relevant topics and prioritize how we are spending our collective pool of finite money. The right has singularly made this "one issue" about breaking the bank ignoring the reality that most of the costs in our annual expenditures are on things that are not necessarily for the benefit of the nation at large.

In fact I would go as far as to call YOUR statement a "Red Herring" from the greater issue of the total budget.

#30 | Posted by Legio
How so?
You already get more out of the system than you put into the system through Social Security and Medicare payouts.
America wins by having more people covered and paying into a system instead of taking and paying nothing into a system.

Well after 3yrs and 7 months I have yet to actually receive any of this benefit money. But they keep telling me "soon Ted soon". I'm still waiting for the final letter telling me that because everyone now has health care we no longer think you deserve disability. That or they're hoping I die and wont have to pay me.

#32 | Posted by Legio

That I am. A Boomer. Say it 3 times real fast and it kinda sounds like Obama

Whether public or private, healthcare costs will continue to go up.

The war in Iraq and military spending do nothing to control the increase in healthcare costs.

You have to wonder that if this 'health care' package of 'Oboner, Napalm Nancy and Horrible Harry' is so damn great....why is it they had to BRIBE members of their own party to come to their side to vote for it to get it passed???????
This is truly an American Tragedy that ranks right up there with any and every horrible disaster to our freedoms and economic system... a 'total slap in the face' to every American citizen...
A total TAX in many ways to the true WORKERS of American...it has become very evident by posts on here and the evidence of those who really support this administration and bill are nothing more than the 'bottom feeders' of our society who earn nothing on their own, but live off the people who do have ethics, morals and character...
The vote date on this bill will rank right up there among any terroist attack on American citizens...!!!

This is truly an American Tragedy that ranks right up there with any and every horrible disaster to our freedoms and economic system... a 'total slap in the face' to every American citizen...

You are so right. I don't think I've ever been so pissed at congress since this vote buying thing. If my congressman had done it, it would be an automatic vote for his opponent next election, even if he was running against satan himself.

Fuck those clowns.

I'm not getting health insurance. Fuck them, their mandate, and their punishment for noncompliance.

Bring it on Sucker Fish. I don't feed leeches.

Yes, there should be health care reform. This isn't it.

Kill the bill, and start over. This time, concentrate on the important shit, like stemming medical inflation, wellness, and an unprecedented emphasis on personal responsibility.

Yes, there should be health care reform. This isn't it.

Kill the bill, and start over. This time, concentrate on the important shit, like stemming medical inflation, wellness, and an unprecedented emphasis on personal responsibility.

Damn, Danforth -- best thing you've said all night! *grin* Good on ya'!

"Good on ya'!"

Nah...I'm against it for different reasons you are. I believe we need a public option, as a counterpoint to the unnatural spikes in health care inflation we've experienced since...the mid-80s, at least.

I also believer our "leaders" went about it the wrong way: I believe they should have shot for 75 votes...by finding the ten issues BOTH sides agree upon: tort reform, paper streamlining, wellness, etc....

Ultimately, medicine is unlike any other product in the market: we the taxpayers are on the hook for it. Currently, it's 40% of the insured, with that number slated to spike...a fact we've seen coming for a generation.

Well if the results after the President signs the bill into law are anything like the State of Mass than expect the cost of health care to go up, the cost of premiums to go up, the number of people who have insurance to go up, health care spending to go down (due to longer wait times), and longer wait times for health care.

Too bad we aren't actually getting Health Care Reform. The "Party of NO!" has done a great job of destroying any chance of that this year. Buy stock in the HMOs and Big Pharma. They are very happy with this bill.

I had to put my wife in the hospital this year. I have FEHB Anthem coverage. Supposedly a "Cadillac" coverage plan. My out of pocket expenses may bankrupt me by next near as the HMO has done everything in it's power to make me pay out of pocket and I cannot afford a lawyer to fight them.
#17 | Posted by donnerboy

I had such high hopes for Congress doing the right thing by the American People. We really do deserve Health Care for all like all other major industrialized nations do for their People.

So now I am just hoping to survive the whole ordeal and manage to keep a roof over my children in the end.

So Fuck you Congress and Merry Christmas.
------------------
I'm sorry about you problems, but they are yours, not mine, and I don't want to pay for them.

#20 | Posted by dean_buvia

Don't worry - the dems have a backup plan.

What if (for example) it is determined that Mr.
and Mrs. Jones "can't afford" to pay for health
insurance? (Oh, my - what a terrible injustice!).

Solution - the "government" will pay for it.
Win - win. Meaning, this system will devour dollars
like nothing else we have ever seen.

The "gee whiz, everyone will have health care" mantra
is a nice, caring and sensitive sound bite, but
it will put a serious hurting on our lifestyles.

We can only hope that the damage can be reversed/mitigated.
-----------------
You are so correct.

In San Fran they just outlawed burning wood in your fireplace on Christmas.

They also made the Salvation Army get rid of most of their toys, due to the fact that they didn't meet the some standard, so now many poor kids will go without toys this Christmas.

The is what is comming down the pike for all of us, I can't wait.

Thi

#27 | Posted by mad_as_hell

DR fun fact: The first one to bring race into the discussion is most likely the only racist on the thread.

I'm sorry about you problems, but they are yours, not mine, and I don't want to pay for them.

#44 | Posted by 90c2cab

yeah I bet you are.

I didn't want to pay for Iraq either. Saddam was not MY problem. Welcome to the club.

The fucked again club.

You had no problem paying for the Banks problems either I bet.