If this is anywhere near accurate then the health care reform bill is going to help many Americans...a great deal.

Great article. Can't wait to hear the rightwingers discredit it with hearsay and lies.

Can't wait to hear the rightwingers discredit it with hearsay and lies.

Why? You aren't bright enough to figure them out for yourself?

No. So tell us Goatmilk, what lies do you rightwingers intend to claim about this article's analysis.

"If this is anywhere near accurate then the health care reform bill is going to help many Americans...a great deal."
#1 | Posted by danni

I hope Obama is paying you because no one one works harder at spreading his propaganda than you.

I hope Obama is paying you because no one one works harder at spreading his propaganda than you.

#5 | Posted by KBM at 2009-12-22 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag: ACORN!

Glad to see the rightwingers are doing their cricket imitation. Maybe they finally are learning that when the Left is correct best thing to do is just shut-up about it and hope nobody notices.

I expect to see an incoherent tweet anytime now.

Pass the kool-aid please.

"Pass the kool-aid please."

Wow, what a zinger. You really shot down the claims of the article with that one.

So, are the Dems still planning to cut Medicare?

So, are the Dems still planning to cut Medicare?

#11 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Not here. -Senator Nelson

and how about old ben
he got to a mic and threw reid and the others under that bus...DAMN its getting crowded under that democrat bus, isnt it..>>

then later said he would have it taken out if the gov would ask him to...then EVEN later he came out defending it by the SAME OLD BULLSHIT we hear here..
well "THEY DID IT TOO"........

"democrats will empty the treasury if they have to, to pass health care."

charles krauthammer in YET another true statement.

"democrats will empty the treasury if they have to, to pass health care."

Another Republican moron who refuses to admit Bush already did that.

THIS IS REFORM

danforth....let me let you in on something..

450 billion deficit is not as large or as much as 1.3 trillion and growing...

Let me get this straight, some of you are actually buy into that crap?
C'mon that article wouldn't pass the intellectual standards for a grade school student.
But i love the idea that money comes from nowhere and that less can be more monetarily. I suppose that i should start refusing half my pay check and just telling vendors that i will get more for less money despite cost.

But i still have a hard time comprehending the though process, even using the numbers provided in the article, how does it jive with any sense of reality? How can the vast majority of Americans pay much less and receive the same care, seriously you think there was that much profit for the insurance companies?

Just a reminder to those who buy into this crap.
"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life"

Is this the depth of the analysis for the Left, only the direct costs? No analysis of healthcare costs as a percentage of GDP? No analysis of patient to doctor ratios? No analysis of how it will effect other demographics of the militia?

Do you propose that having a higher patient to doctor ratio than today is better healthcare?

Well at least I can't accuse the left of hiding its true intentions, buying votes with other people's dollars.

"The best and most rigorous cost analysis was recently released by the insurer WellPoint"

The lefties on this site will never believe anything that comes from Wellpoint....just wait..

They only believe certain messengers..

hey salam

also

'you cant fix stupid'

ron white.

"It's certainly true that, under the terms of the Senate bill, insurance would cost more and cover less than many of us would prefer,"

In Libspeak, this means that once again, their POS legislation will do less than stated and cost more than its proponents said. All this before the cost of the senate "bribes" are factored in.
Instead of doing it right, they chose to just do anything so that B.O. can thump his chest in the media.

EPIC FAIL by the idiots we have elected. Fuck you all.

If Healthcare Reform and this Bill are such GREAT!!! things, then why did both the House and the Senate include a clause in the proposed bill that will allow them to "Opt Out"?

Channel 3 News (WTKR) gave a presentation on Employer Health Care yesterday evening. The average employer cost for healthcare for businesses with less than 50 employees is $9,800 per employee per year. If the employer does not buy healthcare insurance for his employees then under the proposed plan he will be fined $750 per employee. Therefore if he has 45 employees the cost of healthcare insurance would be $441,000. If he doesn't buy healthcare the penalty would be $33,750. If he pays the penalty and forces the employees to get their own insurance his savings would be: $407,250.
Healthcare is a good deal for Small Business owners. Screw the employees. They can now afford to buy their own Healtcare Insurance.

I'll take a wild stab here and say that WTKR-Channe 3 (Norfolk, VA) is a Fox affiliate.

Which makes anything they say extremely biased and irrelevant

FAUX NEWS!

how can anybody get behind a bill that nobody can tell you what the hell is in it and congress has never or ever will cut medicare so how in the hell will this be payed for?

So, are the Dems still planning to cut Medicare?

#11 | POSTED BY LIVE_OR_DIE AT 2009-12-23 08:48 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

So you are in favor of spending more?

Are there any college trained economists in here? I'll start at the top and work down:
Danni? Moder8? LetUsPrey? ChickenRancher? Danforth? Twinpack?
Didn't think so. In fact it's painfully obvious that you've had no training what-so-ever in economics. My guess is Moder8 is the only one in your little group that can even balance a check book. So what do you do? You beleive all the crap thrown at you by Your administration that says this is a good bill. For crying out loud people you own President doesn't believe it. Your elected officials don't beleive it. But we need to make Obama look good for is State of the Union address and for accepting a bogus Peace prize. I hope you all enjoy your soon to be realized poverty and resulting socialist state.

WHEW!

Smell the anger.

'you cant fix stupid'

ron white.

#22 | Posted by afkabl2

The article is misleading at best. Not everyone has the same cost for typical premium (I can get health care for less here in Texas) so he has a one size fits all. Then he talks about mandates on insurance, and tax subsidies. Who pays for that, there is no money tree in Washington? Somebody has to pay for all that stuff and it will add to everyone's cost of living.

So the person in the article making 50,000 or 75,000 will all have a cost of living increase. So are they really going to save money? I don't think so, because any money they save on a premium (which might not happen) will be eaten up by the things they do everyday because they will go up in price.

This bill will add to everyone's cost of living.

Are there any college trained economists in here? I'll start at the top and work down:
Danni? Moder8? LetUsPrey? ChickenRancher? Danforth? Twinpack?
Didn't think so. In fact it's painfully obvious that you've had no training what-so-ever in economics. My guess is Moder8 is the only one in your little group that can even balance a check book. So what do you do? You beleive all the crap thrown at you by Your administration that says this is a good bill. For crying out loud people you own President doesn't believe it. Your elected officials don't beleive it. But we need to make Obama look good for is State of the Union address and for accepting a bogus Peace prize. I hope you all enjoy your soon to be realized poverty and resulting socialist state.

#29 | Posted by Tedly

"Are there any college trained economists in here? I'll start at the top and work down: Danni? Moder8? LetUsPrey? ChickenRancher? Danforth? Twinpack? Didn't think so."

Well, as it turns out, you thought wrong. But, nothing new there.

"In fact it's painfully obvious that you've had no training what-so-ever in economics."

Wrong again, skippy.

"My guess is Moder8 is the only one in your little group that can even balance a check book."

I'm sure my investment clients would be surprised to hear that, especially since -- barring disaster -- this will be the ninth year out of nine since I started I've soundly beaten the market.

"So what do you do? You beleive all the crap thrown at you by Your administration that says this is a good bill."

Can you taste the stupid when you post shit like that? I'm on record opposing the bill.

family of four earning $50,000: The Senate bill "will make people's lives significantly better."

Lets hear about the same family earning $75k per year. The story would be different.

But, let's not worry about thoes damn rich people.

" They won't need to be accountable for any current belief after changing their usernames."
#33 | POSTED BY R0B0T

And who did you used to be?

No matter what angle the analysis is approached from, far more Americans who were previously not able to have healthcare will soon receive it. This is a good thing. America should have done this twenty years ago. Also, insofar as costs are concerned, most analyses indicate the healthcare bill will save the nation lots of money over the mid to long term. there may be some losers here and there, but again, overall this is a long overdue step forward. Hopefully, patriotic Americans (even those who opposed it) will rally together to help make it as successful as possible.

#26 Actually, WTKR is a CBS affiliate. Which I assume is a reliable news network by your standards.

Your comments are just evidence of the underlying problem. There is no such thing as an unbiased press anymore. You don't trust Fox news because you sense an underlying bias in their reporting. I don't trust MSNBC because I sense a bias, and I don't trust CNN because of their false story when the assault rifle ban was about to expire. I personally believe that all news networks have their own agenda and they cater to it.

It's truly a sad state of affairs when the United States of America lacks an objective news source. I'm not old enough to remember Walter Cronkite being on the air, and maybe I romantacize that period of history since all I've seen are youtube clips of his broadcasts. But we sorely need an objective news source. Someone who will report, without putting their own spin on it, the 5W+H's of a story (Who, what, where, when, why, and how).

I don't watch much television, never have, and tend to get my news from the internet and the radio. I switch between the drudgereport and the drudge retort on the internet. I listen to terrestrial AM radio in my jeep, and a progressive talk station out of San Francisco (green something) that's broadcast on Iheartradio when I'm driving my 1950 Plymouth (it didn't come with a space to mount the radio, so I use my Iphone as a receiver). Half the time I feel like I'm listening to Al Jazeera and watching CNN, but at least I can get both sides of the story and try to form an objective opinion. It's alot of work, but an ignorant populace is an easily manipulatable one.

The thing I've realized is that people of any particular political orientation will dismiss anything that runs counter to their point of view and basically call the source a liar. Just because Glenn Beck, Keith Olbermann, Rush Limbaugh, or Randi Rhodes says something, it doesn't make it a lie. If MSNBC or FOX runs a story, it will obviously have a spin on it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true. No matter how you get your news, you need to cut away the agenda (which they all have) and get down to the facts and form an opinion based on those.

At the beginning of this thread, Danni (who from what I can tell has been a rather ardent supporter of this bill) said "If this is anywhere near accurate then the health care reform bill is going to help many Americans...a great deal." Shouldn't we have known the facts before this thing was voted on? Good or bad, nobody really seems to know what's in it, at least not among the general population. Most of us are content to just argue the party line, and that's what is wrong with this country.

John

Someone tell me, exactly who is making up the differences in these rates? The rich, again? Me? WHO EXACTLY? After all, it has to come from somewhere, doesn't it? Jesus, money from HEAVEN! Where have I heard that before?

If something is unsustainable when it starts, what makes you believe it will SUDDENLY become viable?

They collect various taxes through 2013 before ALL benefits accrue!

S-CHIP will be on the cuff in about two more years, MEDICARE can't take this hit and survive as is, MEDICAID, in 47 states will suffer (mandated state payments into the system - think STATE TAXES HERE)!

I'm buying my second home in NEBRASKA so I can let YOU pay for my MEDICAID bills for the rest of my life!

This is the largest piece of CRAP since TARP. A sure vote getter - cause everyone will be DEPENDENT on Uncle Sam for EVER!

Just ask yourself HONESTLY 'Who will be paying for this?' Now? Next year? Five years from now? How about TEN? Starting to get the picture?

So, are the Dems still planning to cut Medicare?
.....#11 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

.....the Republicans have always been against Medicare, so why do they care now ?......

.....you mean to say that they are defending a big, government run health care plan ??......

.....next thing you're going to tell us is that we have a VA medical program because our soldiers deserve the best care possible.......(like Billy Kristol said).......

Liberals will seize on any supporting propaganda no matter how hollow it may or may not be, without true debate. Global warming: The science is not done, it is still up for debate obviously. Evolution: Explains adaptation, but not cross species, still up for debate. Organisms get more complex the smaller you go, not simpler. Capitalism: Failed or successful, or still up for debate. Health care bill: Done in secret, blindly voted on, nobody can understand it. Nobody knows what will happen, or what changes will be required to make it work. Why no debate, just level one thinking? Liberals are endoctronated at university and very difficult to reason with. It is their religion.

Evolution:
......is only a debate among retarded people......

Capitalism:
.......please explain why communist China owns us.......

Health care bill: nobody can understand it.
#41 | Posted by ANNODROG

.....you and the conservatives cannot understand it because you have been inbreeding for too long up in the smokey mountains, the rest of us are just fine with it.......in fact we wanted a stronger public option and more patient rights that will be included in it........we were hoping to get halfway to where other civilized western countries are, but that will have to wait........the conservatives were against Medicare, Social Security, unemployment insurance,.....anything that does not benefit millionaires is somehow a socialist plot to them.......

you and the conservatives cannot understand it because you have been inbreeding for too long up in the smokey mountains,

Do you understand all 2000+ pages of it?

(pause)

So how're things with you and your sister/wife in your own little corner of Appalachia?

Do you understand all 2000+ pages of it?
.....#43 | Posted by goatman

.....sure.....don't you ?.......

....oh I'm sorry.....I forgot , you're a conservative......

.....why does the length of a bill inspire fear in people who can read ??......oooops sorry again, I took something for granted.......

.....I mean what is about the length of the bill that inspires fear in literate people ??.......

.....what were you hoping would left out.??.....

....the part where insurance companies can form death panels and cut people off with pre-existing conditions.......

.....or the part where the insurance companies can form death panels and cut people off after they've reached "life-time limits" on care ??.......

.....I think this bill is far from good, because I know other countries that are doing better (yes with better results also)......

.....but this bill will save thousands of lives, the irony again being that the pro-lifers are suckered into lining up against it....so that insurance company millionaires can keep getting zillions in bonuses......

Hopefully, patriotic Americans (even those who opposed it) will rally together to help make it as successful as possible.
#37 | POSTED BY MODER8

That's like asking a victim to accept that his stolen goods are no longer his property and that he should make peace with the crook who stole it from him.

Ray this is a wonderful thing for many Americans. Quit being so damn greedy.

#48 | POSTED BY JACKASS

The crook calls his victims greedy.

Ray WTF are you talking about? I'll get little benefit from this bill but I know many who will. I am happy for them.

That's like asking a victim
#47 | Posted by Ray

....this bill is good for Americans, the only victime are the greedy insurance companies and their death panels......

.....they won't be able to kill people with their "pre-existing conditions" and "life-time limits".......

.....don't defend the greedy murderers........

.they won't be able to kill people with their "pre-existing conditions" and "life-time limits".......
.....don't defend the greedy murderers........
#51 | POSTED BY SKIZZIKS

I hardly know of a government promise that hasn't turned out disastrous. If insurance companies can't refuse customers with pre-existent conditions, then all one has to do is wait until one has a condition, then buy insurance. I suspect the law is rigged to drive them out of business so the feds can completely take it over. There is no problem that government can't make worse. Their debt problems are getting unmanageable, yet the spending accelerates. You're dreaming, Skizziks.

Ray WTF are you talking about? I'll get little benefit from this bill but I know many who will. I am happy for them.
#50 | POSTED BY JACKASS

I recognize that you recognize government's right to seize whatever it wants to satisfy its political ends.

I remember the high-and-mighty promises when Medicare was debated. Now that it's close to running out of cash, the legislators expanded the Pyramid Scheme. And a Pyramid Scheme it is. Assuming it becomes law, it's another fiscal disaster waiting to happen. I wouldn't give it many years.

If insurance companies can't refuse customers with pre-existent conditions,
#52 | Posted by Ray

......they are not refused in other western countries.......

.....they do not charge them three times the going rate for drugs.....

.....Americans are have been sold out by their governments, so that they can be gouged to the limit, and beyond......

.......we are being played for suckers, and people like you are convinced that its the right thing to do.........

.....only in America are insurance company death panels allowed..........

I hardly know of a government promise that hasn't turned out disastrous.
#52 | Posted by Ray at

......sure......we could do away with government and live like they do in Somalia.......

.....because the less government a country has, the more ignorant and backward it is......

.....just look at all the countries that are ahead of us in the standards of living........

.....they all have big governments, just a lot less corrupted by special interests than ours......

I suspect the law is rigged to drive them out of business so the feds can completely take it over.
52 | Posted by Ray

.....so how come western govts with full national health plans have higher standards of living than we do ?......

.....I lived in Canada for 20 years, Hungary for 8 years, they were both light years ahead of us in healthcare......

......there were no "pre-existing conditions" no "life-time limits" every one was covered, and there were no healthcare bankruptcies (like the 1.5 million in this country)......

........we are being taken for suckers by a healthcare industry which has our legislators bought......

........one of the reasons that we are declining as a world power, is that we are allowing the impovrishment of our people, so that a few insurance execs can become multi-millionaires......

......we also have a sickly population, afraid of going to a doctor, because they can't pay the deductibles........

......we are the authors of our own decline as a nation......healthcare is one of the causes......the other significant one is our neglect of public education.......

.......we have a sickly and undereducated population, what world are we going to lead.?....

Skizziks

The medical care system which you so harshly condemn is directly related to previous government interventions - taxes, regulations and subsidies. Only in your imagination will another intervention remedy previous interventions. This is a classic case of doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results each time.

they are not refused in other western countries
That doesn't change the economics.

sure......we could do away with government and live like they do in Somalia
Or we could go back to constitutional government.

because the less government a country has, the more ignorant and backward it is.
You need to catch up on American history.

just look at all the countries that are ahead of us in the standards of living.
They are not burdened by the waste of military spending.

Our system of government has grown in power and cost beyond all rational bounds. This is the same pattern other fallen nations have followed.

so how come western govts with full national health plans have higher standards of living than we do.

By what measures?

I lived in Canada for 20 years, Hungary for 8 years, they were both light years ahead of us in healthcare

They haven't defied the laws of economics. It had to be paid for in ways you don't see. Canada, I understand, has a rationing system in order to contain expenses. They have to.

same thing over and over again, expecting different results each time.

.......improvement is not doing the same thing.....

they are not refused in other western countries
That doesn't change the economics.

.....it proves that the economics are
manageable....

sure......we could do away with government and live like they do in Somalia
Or we could go back to constitutional government.

.......no one has demonstrated that our government is unconstitutional......that includes opposing politicians.......

because the less government a country has, the more ignorant and backward it is.
You need to catch up on American history.

.......the less government we had, the more backward we were.....how far into the past do you want to reach to prove my point ?........

just look at all the countries that are ahead of us in the standards of living.
They are not burdened by the waste of military spending.

......right.....that already proves they are smarter than we are.......let's invest in our people instead of in our organs of mass destruction.........

Our system of government has grown in power and cost beyond all rational bounds. This is the same pattern other fallen nations have followed

.....I agree with this one hundred percent, but where is the bad money going, and where does the good money go ?......my answer:

Bad Money: Wars, Foreign Aid, Bad Trade Deals, Tax cuts for millionaires ( who just hoard the money offshore anyways). Lax banking and corporate laws, that allow k401 moneys of workers to be pilfered.

Good Money: Healthcare, Education, Infrastructure Spending, any money spent on Americans, which will be recycled in the economy here.

......fact is, there are better ways to run an economy, and we refuse to learn from those countries that are doing more for their own citizens.........

......and so our decline continues........

They haven't defied the laws of economics. It had to be paid for in ways you don't see. Canada, I understand, has a rationing system in order to contain expenses. They have to.
#58 | Posted by Ray

......in Canada and Hungary, you only wait for the non-urgent care, the urgent care like heart disease, cancer, injuries, are attended to with the same urgency as here, stuff like knee or hip replacements have a waiting list because they have an aging population also.....

.....you are right in that they have NOT defied the laws of economics....but healthcare is not as unaffordable as Americans are led to believe......

......Americans are being suckered into believing that insurance companies are necessary for healthcare, they are not, most countries save that cost by cutting them out, and Americans are suckered into believing that doctors must be millionaires or they wont work......in both Canada and Hungary, the doctors were well off relatively, but not multi-millionaires, the way they are here.....

....it's the same with drugs, Americans pay three times the amount Canadians and Europeans pay...why ??.....because big-pharma has bought Congress......no other reason.......

......we are suckers of the first order, cash cows for insurance and health care industries, who are in collusion with our legislators...and everytime they get someone like you to believe that their lies are real, they prolong the agony of the nation.......

I'm sorry Skizziks. I can't read your posts without getting cross-eyed. It's the worst style I've see on this website.

I'm sorry Skizziks. I can't read your posts without getting cross-eyed. It's the worst style I've see on this website.
.....#61 | Posted by Ray

......there is no arguing with a subjective effect......

......but in the end, it's the content that matters......

This isn't the final bill but probably could be close to it--we don't even know if the thing is going to be phased in--if phased in I'll tell you something---then it's one big tax scheme and here's why---the real issue may not be reform at all but a covert attempt at getting the general budget under control--in other words the program probably doesn't even start until about 2013 (after Obummer runs again)---that's the ULTIMATE CON--that's what you doofusses should be focussing on--- helloooo, anybody out there?---I'll bet this will never happen this way in our lifetimes--when are you libtards going to wake up and smell the coffee?---fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

The analysis did not mention or consider the additional tax burden placed on current and future generations. The analysis also used "costs/growth estimates" provided to the CBO by the Democrats. I'm unaware of any federal entitlement program that has come within 300% of the originally 'estimated' cost. Lets hope this one is a first, but most likely will be in the 500% range of real cost verse CBO 'estimates'.

#62 | POSTED BY SKIZZIKS

The style suggests you have no regard for your readers. I can't think of a reason why a reader should go go out of his way to edit out your ellipses to get to the content.

but most likely will be in the 500% range of real cost verse CBO 'estimates'.

#64 | Posted by midtowncowboy

And with the deficit 1.4 trillion this year and projected to be close to 2 trillion next year, why do you think the dems are in such a hurry to pass this thing--so tax increases take place as soon as possible--that's why they won't dicker much more in reconciliation.

#26 | Posted by Twinpac at 2009-12-24 06:48 AM | Reply | Flag: Demonstrates pride in retardation of self, again.

Right, WASHBOARD

And to think . . . it only took you 15 hours to put together a whole sentence.

I'll use smaller words next time. Will that help?

The Republicans in the House and Senate have come up with a new bill.

Give every American citizen, parents and children, $1,000,000 every year for life and all will no longer have to pay any Federal taxes for life.

When Jonathan Cohn was asked if his conclusion of its impact on a family of four earning $50,000, he said the bill "will make people's lives significantly better."

However, when it was repeated that Republicans were suggesting the bill, he said it was a terrible idea - just think of the costs.

Yeah, the costs.

......we also have a sickly population, afraid of going to a doctor, because they can't pay the deductibles........

......we are the authors of our own decline as a nation......healthcare is one of the causes......the other significant one is our neglect of public education.......

.......we have a sickly and undereducated population, what world are we going to lead.?....

We have a population of fat, lazy and unhealthy citizens. The best healthcare and reform won't change this fact. Now or in the near future. What will change, is now everyone is considered the same, and will equally pay through the nose for future Healthcare costs. Including all those who have abused tobacco and alcohol. Alone those currently eat up 30% of Medicare, Medicaid costs. Throw in heart disease, diabetes and whatever else the Government wants to make sure we pay to insure.

This article is a joke.

He says in the beginning of the article that insurance premiums will go up and the cost of health care will go up, but with tax subsidies people in certain income brackets will pay less. Then he goes on to use complex graphs to make his case. If they have to make complex arguments to prove to you that this bill is a benefit, then commonsense should tell you to raise a RED FLAG.
To make his point he relies on the CBO numbers being accurate, and we all know they'll not, also he's relying on tax subsidies, which can be eliminated latter by another Congress. The little benefits these people get to buy insurance will be eaten up by inflation.

Also if this bill was so good then why were so many Senators trying to get their states omitted from the legislation? If you were taught commonsense by your parents you know the answer

This bill is nothing but a big cost of living increase for every American.

I'm sure my investment clients would be surprised to hear that, especially since -- barring disaster -- this will be the ninth year out of nine since I started I've soundly beaten the market.

#34 | Posted by Danforth

Dan, since I handle my own investments, I'll bet I beat the pants off of you since the summer of 2007---since I went 80% into cash then and then started to phase back in March of this year.

"since I handle my own investments, I'll bet I beat the pants off of you since the summer of 2007"

You probably did, although I sold out a lot in November of '07 and more in January of '08. My biggest client is UP since the meltdown started, and I'm within 2.75% of my all-time high.

You liberals can have your 'Faith' in government, but let's see how you feel about this in 5 or 6 years when the reality is exposed. The future posts should be very enlightening. After all, the govt does so many things well - right?

"After all, the govt does so many things well - right?"

Doesn't the government do the military?

I'm sorry Skizziks. I can't read your posts without getting cross-eyed. It's the worst style I've see on this website.

#61 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-24 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

I appreciate SkidMark's style. He has nothing to say other than tedious, ignorant and partisan drivel. So at least the way he types makes it easy to skip over it.

He has nothing to say other than tedious, ignorant and partisan drivel. So at least the way he types makes it easy to skip over it.
...#76 | Posted by vernon

.....Merry Christmas Vern, and best of the season to you & your family......

Are there any college trained economists in here? I'll start at the top and work down:
Danni? Moder8? LetUsPrey? ChickenRancher? Danforth? Twinpack?
Didn't think so. In fact it's painfully obvious that you've had no training what-so-ever in economics. My guess is Moder8 is the only one in your little group that can even balance a check book. So what do you do? You beleive all the crap thrown at you by Your administration that says this is a good bill. For crying out loud people you own President doesn't believe it. Your elected officials don't beleive it. But we need to make Obama look good for is State of the Union address and for accepting a bogus Peace prize. I hope you all enjoy your soon to be realized poverty and resulting socialist state.
#29 | Posted by Tedly

sorry dude.. I have a masters in economics.

Just because the right says its a bad bill doesn't make it so. I think it is necessary for manufacturing to survive in the US. This will pool costs, reduce government overall payout due to a larger pool, and slow rising premiums. Those are basic economic realities. The Wall street Journal even agrees that Health care is something necessary and would be a positive for the American company and worker.

Also if this bill was so good then why were so many Senators trying to get their states omitted from the legislation? If you were taught commonsense by your parents you know the answer
This bill is nothing but a big cost of living increase for every American.
#71 | POSTED BY 90C2CAB

prove it..

#78 | Posted by Legio at 2009-12-25 04:29 PM |

You seem to forget that many on the left were against this as well. You also forget that most of this so called reform won't even begin until 2013.

The fact we are adding another 31 million on the Gov's dime, including those with pre-existing and future diseases because of unhealthy lifestyles will drive up the costs. IMO...

Sure the health care reform bill will help 30 Million Americans...one question, what about the other 300 Million that are having to pay more for the same coverage. Sounds like pure BS to me.

You seem to forget that many on the left were against this as well. You also forget that most of this so called reform won't even begin until 2013.
The fact we are adding another 31 million on the Gov's dime, including those with pre-existing and future diseases because of unhealthy lifestyles will drive up the costs. IMO...

#80 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC

I didn't forget anything. The right continually state.."many of the left" or "most americans" which are bullshit statements since the you provide no facts or numbers backing up the statements.

You still pay for the other 31 million and get stuck with the bill.. this is a way to help provide wellness and preventative as well as control costs.

You can't have it both ways..

Are you for reduced costs and preventing future issues or aren't you?

Sure the health care reform bill will help 30 Million Americans...one question, what about the other 300 Million that are having to pay more for the same coverage. Sounds like pure BS to me.

#81 | POSTED BY OULOSTURMIND

You would join the the other 30 million by 2017..

"You would join the the other 30 million by 2017.."

According to the senile leader of the senate, who claims an american dies every ten minutes because they lack insurance. Since none of the other provisions go into place until 2013...

Of course the taxes and our premiums will be going higher immediately. I can only hope the repubs don't fuck this up for 2010 and 2012.

DANFORTH: "Doesn't the government do the military?"

Yes, BUT they also do the VA health care ( I avoid it even though it costs me to do so), Post Office, Welfare, Medicare (also going broke), Social Security (also going broke) FreddieMac and Fannie Mae, etc., etc., etc., [with apologies to Yul Brynner]

I guess you believe the govt does all so well and you will not be posting in exasperation and anger in a few years when you pay more and receive less quality care, with no other option than going out of country at your own cost (I recommend Costa Rica). talk to me in 5-6 years

Of course the taxes and our premiums will be going higher immediately. I can only hope the repubs don't fuck this up for 2010 and 2012.

#84 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC

Don't worry you fucked it up for 8 years.. nothing has changed. You had an opportunity to reform and didn't.

"Don't worry you fucked it up for 8 years.. nothing has changed. You had an opportunity to reform and didn't."

The dems only took back the majority because of Bush. They have proven they are worthless via their mouth pieces Reid and Pelosi. Throw in every campaign promise broken from all three Houses and then add this bogus HC Reform. Maybe it is time to look into the odds and place a bet, before the odds go down.

I guess you believe the govt does all so well and you will not be posting in exasperation and anger in a few years when you pay more and receive less quality care, with no other option than going out of country at your own cost (I recommend Costa Rica). talk to me in 5-6 years
#85 | Posted by MSgt at 2009-12-25 09:00 PM

Far be it for me to ever speak for or defend danforth; But he is against this legislation, and is on record as wanting to scrap the entire bill and start over.