We are doomed.
The world is doomed
Globalism is taking over.
The fat lady sings
The fat lady is done singing.
It's over.

Now we will have a globalistic health empire forcing yo to buy insurance or go to jail.

You know, 2 million americans are in jail, that is 90% of all incarcerated people in the world.

we only have 5 percent popultion

tell me that isnt weird.

Satan's plan will pass on Satan's day of covetousness.
Fitting end to the last conscience free nation.
Then the end comes.

Dude--Globalism took over a long time ago. But your combination of ideas is plain bizarre.

Good morning!

If baby jesus doesn't come back to stop this, I guess it means He approves of it.

Commie that he was...

A little melodramatic there are you not Boysenberryguy?

The Rethuglicans want to go home to their mommies and money raising banquets. The Demowussies finally wore them down by staying in session relentlessly. If things get even marginally better on the health care front then the Rethuglicans are in big trouble. The only thing way they will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat is capitalizing on the contining job losses coupled with Conservative think tank bullshit. Their plan will be to promise job growth through more tax breaks for the rich. In your dreams. Hell, half the Demowussies believe that crap as well.

From Paul Krugman's "A Dangerous Dysfunction," an interesting op-ed in this morning's NYT in which he considers the role of the 60-vote threshold in the US Senate before business can really get underway (especially in light of the need for legislation dealing with financial reform, climate change, the budge deficit)in what he (rightly) describes as a "deeply polarized Senate" --

It's time to do away with the filibuster.

It's time to do away with the filibuster.

#8 | Posted by danni

No way! one day we will be the minority again. This is good news. Coverage for more people always is.

It's time to do away with the filibuster.

Why? Because it was used against your party by the Republicans to temporarily halt any progress effectively?

Typical bullshit.

"It hurts my parties ability to push through an agenda, so I don't like it until my party needs it to block the other party from pushing through their agenda."

From the Krugman column cited above:

Back in the mid-1990s two senators Tom Harkin and, believe it or not, Joe Lieberman introduced a bill to reform Senate procedures....Sixty votes would still be needed to end a filibuster at the beginning of debate, but if that vote failed, another vote could be held a couple of days later requiring only 57 senators, then another, and eventually a simple majority could end debate. Mr. Harkin says that he's considering reintroducing that proposal, and he should.

But if such legislation is itself blocked by a filibuster which it almost surely would be reformers should turn to other options. Remember, the Constitution sets up the Senate as a body with majority not supermajority rule. So the rule of 60 can be changed. A Congressional Research Service report from 2005, when a Republican majority was threatening to abolish the filibuster so it could push through Bush judicial nominees, suggests several ways this could happen for example, through a majority vote changing Senate rules on the first day of a new session.

I'm not convinced we need to abolish the filibuster, but the 60-vote threshold certainly poses serious problems; especially when there are, well, serious problems with which the Senate should deal.

Nobody should meddle lightly with long-established parliamentary procedure. But our current situation is unprecedented: America is caught between severe problems that must be addressed and a minority party determined to block action on every front. Doing nothing is not an option not unless you want the nation to sit motionless, with an effectively paralyzed government, waiting for financial, environmental and fiscal crises to strike.

#1 | Posted by boysenberryguy

What is your point? If you want to decrease the prison population maybe we should release the gangbangers into your neighborhood. At least 60% of inmates are gangmembers.

At least 60% of inmates are gangmembers.

#12 | Posted by chickenrancher

Huh??? Is there a link to support that? I have read most inmates are low level drug offenders.

A little melodramatic there are you not Boysenberryguy?

The fauxrage is strong in this one.

Huh??? Is there a link to support that? I have read most inmates are low level drug offenders

You should know better than to ask a neocon for facts.

It's time to do away with the filibuster.

Much akin to all the wing dings collective orgasm over the GNOP's threat to go "nukular" over a SCOTUS filibuster threat.

The filibuster allows a very small minority prevent the will of the vast majority. One Senator from a state with a tiny population can frustrate Senators representing hundreds of millions, it's ridiculous.
Republicans, if they control the majority, don't respect it anyway and threaten nuclear option when any Democratic filibuster is mentioned. Get rid of it once and for all.

It's time to do away with the filibuster.

Yes it is time to do away with this. By voting out the bi-polar system that currently exists. Vote in more independents and third party candidates so that no party blocks can be strong enough to achieve this.

"Much akin to all the wing dings collective orgasm over the GNOP's threat to go "nukular" over a SCOTUS filibuster threat."

So if they are willing to do that if ever backin the majority then what is the point in even having it, much less for Dems to be respecting it now. Where is our nuclear option???? Why doe Dems and Rethugs play by different sets of rules with the advantage always going to Rethugs???

Democrats never did anything like what Republicans did last week

Damn straight.

--Harry "The War is Lost!" Reid

Wow, that is why the big insurance co. stocks shot up on Friday. Those big evil insurance companys that created this health care problem are loving the Dem's plan.

How much did the filibuster cost the Taxpayers? More than the amount that Nelson fleeced out of Harry Reid? Fucking morons.

At least 60% of inmates are gangmembers.
#12 | Posted by chickenrancher

Huh??? Is there a link to support that? I have read most inmates are low level drug offenders.
#13 | Posted by jackass

Don't forget about Dodd's 100 million.

"Wow, that is why the big insurance co. stocks shot up on Friday. Those big evil insurance companys that created this health care problem are loving the Dem's plan."

Yeah, too bad the GOP couldn't block the whole thing. I mean, with their record of fighting corporate greed and putting heavy-duty regulations on trough-slurpers. LOL!

Cash-for-Clotures

I think inmates may enter the prisons as non-gang members but quickly join once there for their own safety.

Why doe Dems and Rethugs play by different sets of rules with the advantage always going to Rethugs???

I laugh at this. One day the libs are crying like bitches when Cheney tells someone to "go fuck yourself" and then another day the libs are crying like bitches when nobody from their own party WON'T tell someone else to "go fuck yourself"

It is hard being a conservative when the republicans only pretend to be conservative.

But I have to say that I think it would have to be harder to be a liberal.

"How much did the filibuster cost the Taxpayers?"

Yeah. Do you suppose it was (a) the same, (b) more, or (c) less than the GOP's Terri Schiavo photo-op?

Wow, that is why the big insurance co. stocks shot up on Friday. Those big evil insurance companys that created this health care problem are loving the Dem's plan.

the libs believed the dems would really stick it to insurance companies. All this time, the stock of Aetna never really took a dive.

Should have told them something......but nothing can replace the fire of ideology.

It is hard being a conservative when the republicans only pretend to be conservative.

Are you kidding? They don't even pretend to be conservative.

#21 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

The only positive to be had from this is to move your 401(k) and IRA contributions into healthcare. If you buy enough of their stock you may offset the increased cost of your insurance premiums. The tax increases... well you'll never get that back.

Yeah. Do you suppose it was (a) the same, (b) more, or (c) less than the GOP's Terri Schiavo photo-op?

#29 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Doc, why not let an adult respond to my post? Your childish retorts are just plain dumb.

#33 | Posted by wisgod

Translation: Wussy made a fool of himself and doesn't like getting caught. Poor witto Wussy!

Are you kidding? They don't even pretend to be conservative.

certainly not when they are in power.

when they aren't, they at least pretend

Just more "proof" that Sarvis is a lush.

Your childish retorts are just plain dumb.

#33 | Posted by wisgod

Poor witto Wussy!

classic.

You clowns really get shook up when someone rattles your playpen. What a hoot!

So how much did the Terri Schiavo photo-op cost? Any of you whiney riiightie sad sacks care to take a guess?

The only rattling I hear are the empty bottles and the marbles in your head, Professor Smirnoff.

Yeah, too bad the GOP couldn't block the whole thing.

Kind of ironic isn't it Doc? If you didn't know better, you would have sworn the GOP had written this bill. Instead they have tried to block it. Shey should except that they aren't doing it for the right reasons. If they had written it and the dems got in the way you would be cheering the dems for the same act you curse the GOP for.

and what is really funny is that you don't think everybody sees your foolish hypocrisy and blatant faux outrage.

but don't let go of that blind ideology.

the entertainment value is priceless.

What we have learned getting to this vote:

Ozzie bin Nelson may be a whore, but he's not a cheap whore.

Jowls Lieberman is a cheap whore.

Harry Reid wears Superman underwear.... all the time.

Obama is the, "invisible hand".

John McCain and the GNOP will still be calling this an "ebil gubmint" takeover even without a public option.

Americans still want a public option, by 59 percent, same as it was early this year and same as after the Summer of Teabaggery.

Wussy swings and misses...again!

So how much did the Terri Schiavo photo-op cost?

probably more than Obama's inagural ball. but who knows??

but I really don't give a shit.

it's amazing that you do.

Wussy swings and misses...again!

#43 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Hard to hit a drunk who can't stay on his feet.

The filibuster allows a very small minority prevent the will of the vast majority.

That's why this country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. The majority cannot take advantage of the minority easily.

Here's a thought.

Maybe the Democrats needs to grow some nuts. When the Republicans called the Democrat bluff when they threatened to go "nucular", the Democrats should have pushed back and forced the Republicans to do so.

Instead, as typical with the limp-wrist left, they caved and the Republicans ran wild.

Now, because your party can barely muster enough votes to pass something just about everyone in the fucking country wants to pass, you want to get rid of the filibuster.

Hard to hit a drunk who can't stay on his feet.
#45 | Posted by wisgod

Swing, miss, and wrong again, Wussy: you sure got tagged.

Harry Reid wears Superman underwear.... all the time.....

on his head.

Americans still want a public option, by 59 percent, same as it was early this year and same as after the Summer of Teabaggery.

with a majority in both houses and the white house and with 50% supporting hit....the dems still couldn't deliver it.

If I spotted you 8 strokes a side in golf, could any of you even keep up?

I seriously doubt it. Geez, we can only tilt the playing field only so much.

#42 Dorky, what poll are you looking at???? 59% want a public option????

"It's time to do away with the filibuster.
#8 | Posted by danni"

I believe that is what Republicans were saying not too long ago Danni, like when their leadership wanted to invest Social Security into what was soon be a crashing stock market.

No it is not time to get rid of the filibuster. It is time for voters to do away with the pols that do not know the meaning of the word compromise and through their actions show they would rather lock up the legislative process versus doing the business of the American people. The Dem's and their Congressional leadership in Congress struck many big compromises when the Repubs were in charge with Bush in the White House. So far the Republican's, minus two or three members, have shown a total unwillingness to make any sort of compromise.

It is tough for the Repubs to compromise with the Dems when #1 the deals are done behind closed doors #2 The Repugs ideas are not listened to and #3 The dems plans just plain suck.

"I believe that is what Republicans were saying not too long ago Danni, like when their leadership wanted to invest Social Security into what was soon be a crashing stock market."

They didn't have to because the "Gang of 14" talked the Dems out of filibustering. That's the whole point, if Rethugs will just threaten a nuclear option when Dems are in the minority then for all intents and purposes the filibuster really only exists when Dems are in the majority, and only then because the Dems are afraid to exercise their power.

"It is tough for the Repubs to compromise with the Dems when #1 the deals are done behind closed doors #2 The Repugs ideas are not listened to and #3 The dems plans just plain suck."

and #4 when the Republicans real objective is to cause the President to look like a failure. They don't give a crap about the legislation, they would be against anything this president is for.

#50 | Posted by fishmonger

One of many

"Now, because your party can barely muster enough votes to pass something just about everyone in the fucking country wants to pass, you want to get rid of the filibuster."

How about the fact that 70% of all bills are being filibustered. That was not the intended purpose of the filibuster, if the Rethugs won't use is sparingly, as it was intended, then get rid of it.

Yeah, it's pretty funny that Repubes are whining about not be included when they #1 failed to propose an alternative, #2 decided that Obama's Waterloo was more important than fixing health care for Americans, and #3 were allowed undue influence on the Bill as the gang of 8 watered it down for their insurance company masters

it's pretty funny that Repubes are whining about not be included when they #1 failed to propose an alternative,

why do that? unless you wanted them to propose something was an even bigger giveway to the insurance and big pharma lobby.

I don't think they could have done a better job of that than the dems.

Or did you mean to say that you expected the repubs to propose something that the American people wanted? I didn't think so.

Those 40 are laughing their asses off right now.

Yeah, it's pretty funny that Repubes are whining about not be included when they #1 failed to propose an alternative...
#57 | Posted by Corky

Why the need to lie, Corky? You know damn good and well Paul Ryan offered a bill. Sad, truely sad. Go grab Sarvis and fill the tub. You two could stand a bath.

-Those 40 are laughing their asses off right now.

Delusional, even for you.

On Sunday afternoon, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) appeared to propose a prayer for Robert Byrd's death so that health care reform would not pass. Dana Milbank reports at the Washington Post:

At 4 p.m. Sunday afternoon -- nine hours before the 1 a.m. vote that would effectively clinch the legislation's passage -- Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) went to the Senate floor to propose a prayer. "What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can't make the vote tonight," he said. "That's what they ought to pray."

It was difficult to escape the conclusion that Coburn was referring to the 92-year-old, wheelchair-bound Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.V.) who has been in and out of hospitals and lay at home ailing. It would not be easy for Byrd to get out of bed in the wee hours with deep snow on the ground and ice on the roads -- but without his vote, Democrats wouldn't have the 60 they needed.

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) took the floor and expressed shock. "This statement goes too far," he said. "We are becoming more coarse and divided here ... When it reaches a point where we're praying, asking people to pray, that senators wouldn't be able to answer the roll call, I think it has crossed the line." He explained that the Democrats were unable to schedule a more reasonably-timed vote because of Republican refusal to negotiate, and he called on Coburn to explain the seemingly malevolent call to prayer.

Watch: Vid at link

Republicans forced the 92-year-old Byrd to come to the Senate for a 1 A.M. vote on the Pentagon budget Friday morning. At least three Republicans had signaled their intention to vote for cloture, rendering Byrd's presence unnecessary. But GOP leaders pressured them to withhold support as a way to gain leverage over the health care legislation.

Why the need to lie, Wissy?

There was no official GOP Bill presented as an alternative, as Obama's Waterloo was more important.

Now it's more like the GNOPs Little Big Horn.

H.R. 2520; The Patients' Choice Act, dummy.

It's called "the Senate" , dummy.

How about the fact that 70% of all bills are being filibustered. That was not the intended purpose of the filibuster, if the Rethugs won't use is sparingly, as it was intended, then get rid of it.

"Now, because your party can barely muster enough votes to pass something just about everyone in the fucking country wants to pass, you want to get rid of the filibuster."

I wish I could make the letters gigantic so you could read it better.

On Sunday afternoon, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) appeared to propose a prayer for Robert Byrd's death so that health care reform would not pass. Dana Milbank reports at the Washington Post:

nevermind. I forgot you will always believe in the "theatrics" of what a hypocritcal asshole like Coburn says on the floor.

It's called "the Senate" , dummy.

#63 | Posted by Corky

Like I said, truely sad, Corkforth.

Like I said, there was no alternative proposed in the Senate, which is what we are talking about.

Now it's more like the GNOPs Little Big Horn.

how so? a huge piece of legislation has passed and it is nothing but a giveaway for insurance and big pharma and the republicans don't even have their name on it.

they managed to ge the dems to put their names on it instead and go on record as having tried to prevent it.

LOL

like I said, those 40 are laughing their asses off right now.

"Yeah, it's pretty funny that Repubes are whining about not be included when they #1 failed to propose an alternative..."

I must have missed the word Senate, dummy.

What the American people ought to pray is that somebody can't make the vote tonight," he said. "That's what they ought to pray."

I am surrrrrrreBill O will do everything he can to express his outrage over such a lack of decorum like he did with Franken tell Lieberman he could not go past his 10 minutes of b.s.

propose something was an even bigger giveway to the insurance and big pharma lobby.

They already did that with Medicare Part D.

But why stop there?

Health costs. From the outset, the White House's core claim was that reform would reduce health costs for individuals and businesses, and they're sticking to that story. "Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't read the bills," Mr. Obama said over the weekend. This is so utterly disingenuous that we doubt the President really believes it.

The best and most rigorous cost analysis was recently released by the insurer WellPoint, which mined its actuarial data in various regional markets to model the Senate bill. WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%. A small business based in Richmond with eight employees in average health will see a 23% increase. Insurance costs for a 40-year-old family with two kids living in Indianapolis will pay 106% more. And on and on.

These increases are solely the result of ObamaCareabove and far beyond the status quobecause its strict restrictions on underwriting and risk-pooling would distort insurance markets. All but a handful of states have rejected regulations like "community rating" because they encourage younger and healthier buyers to wait until they need expensive care, increasing costs for everyone. Benefits and pricing will now be determined by politics.

As for the White House's line about cutting costs by eliminating supposed "waste," even Victor Fuchs, an eminent economist generally supportive of ObamaCare, warned last week that these political theories are overly simplistic. "The oft-heard promise 'we will find out what works and what does not' scarcely does justice to the complexity of medical practice," the Stanford professor wrote.

#59 | Posted by wisgod | Flag: Sad Clown

I really do hate to see you this distraught But don't worry, Wussy, just your hair, refill your douchebag, loosen that pesky bodice, and fan your quivering chin while reminding yourself, "Yes, Wussy, *sniff* *sniff* tomarrah's anutha day."

We should ALL be seriously concerned if this bill passes:

The futile squirming, whining, bitching, bile and bitterness of rightwingers over this bill certainly has been an unexpected Xmas gift for those of us who support healthcare for all Americans. Very very entertaining And the good guys won.

#74 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-12-21 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:When bested, call the opponent a douchebag.

Nanc you don't have insurance now so you should consider this a blessing.

It keeps them on track to vote for it by Christmas Eve, not to pass it per say. I am hoping at least some of them voted to end debate so that this bill can finally be killed and we can start working on the REAL bill. A fool's hope I know, but tis the season for miracles.

Kanrei Are you afraid this will effect reimbursement rates eliminating your posh salary?

What posh salary? I make almost nothing.

Like Jackass has even read the damned thing. Boy, you lefties certainly took your stupid pills this weekend.

When bested, call the opponent a douchebag.
#77 | Posted by wisgod

That's it? You, who constantly yammer innanities on the DR complain that someone refers to your overinflated, self-drenching douchebag? Able to dish it out but goes all sulky on the receiving end? Ah, the irony! Talk about getting your ass handed to you, whiney boy.

Moder8's got a good point. I'd no idea Wussy and the other whiney riiighties would hurl themselves into Warp 9 Hissy Fit mode over this. It's like Santa Claus came early with a sackful of goodies.

Merry Christmas!

Very very entertaining And the good guys won.

yeah, those guys from insurance and big pharma won huge!!!

LOL

Moder8's got a good point.

maybe.....but it must be on another thread.

You know, 2 million americans are in jail, that is 90% of all incarcerated people in the world.

we only have 5 percent popultion

tell me that isnt weird.

#1 | Posted by boysenberryguy

It's not weird, it's facist.

And the good guys won.
#76 | POSTED BY MODER8

Have you read the bill? How could you possibly know who won?

This is GREAT!!!!

We are not waiting for the 1020 election.

Every State in the Union has a provision in their constitution to RECALL THEIR SENATORS!

Thy Will Be Done!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

"I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago," said Dr. Hendricks. "Do you know what it takes to perform a brain operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let them dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my reward. I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement of medicine, men discussed everything - except the desires of the doctors. Men considered only the 'welfare' of the patients, with no thought for those who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right, desire or choice in the matter was regarded as irrelevant selfishness; his is not to choose, they said, only 'to serve.' That a man who's willing to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrust with a job in the stockyards - never occurred to those who proposed to help the sick by making life impossible for the healthy. I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind - yet what is it that they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims. Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of a man who resents it - and still less safe, if he is the sort who doesn't."

Ayn Rand

Atlas Shrugged

Robert Byrds job is to vote for bills, if he cannot, he needs to be replaced, and rememder, it was the Democrats who decided to vote for this thing at 1AM.

Those of you who think that the majority of people support anything close to this is crazy, what have you been smoking?

Republicans have proposed alternatives but they did not grow government (amazing considering their recent track record) but took away regulations that that would allow things like competition across state lines, why don't people get behind things that will not cost taxpayers anything first? See how it goes? Thats right, they are not paying taxes anyhow.

I am so pissed right now, I see so much more of my money being taken from me, maybe I should just walk away from my responsibilities and become a moocher, oh, thats right, I can't, I am an evil white man, it's all my fault to begin with.

Fuck all of you who think it is my responsibility to take care of lazy ass sons a bitches.

The futile squirming, whining, bitching, bile and bitterness of rightwingers over this bill certainly has been an unexpected Xmas gift for those of us who support healthcare for all Americans. Very very entertaining And the good guys won.

#76 | Posted by moder8

Your "Good Guys" are going to be tarred and feathered by the other "Good Guys" when they get back to their states.

LOL

you idiot Libs think this is a good!!!

BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

I am so pissed right now, I see so much more of my money being taken from me, maybe I should just walk away from my responsibilities and become a moocher, oh, thats right, I can't, I am an evil white man, it's all my fault to begin with.

Fuck all of you who think it is my responsibility to take care of lazy ass sons a bitches.

#90 | Posted by IronRey

Did you hear the story about the teacher who failed everyone in the class?

Eddie has finally gone round the bend.

Eddie has finally gone round the bend.

#93 | Posted by pragmatist

I think it's because the country has shifted to the Right in less than a year!!!

It's great!!!

Another day to mark as 'tragic history in the USA'.. 'Oboner' on his knees praising to his soul mistress 'Napalm Nancy' and sucking up to 'Horrible Harry' for forging another terror attack on the freedom of American citizenry and further destruction the American economy.. another huge heart attack in our Nation's body of diminishing capacity..!!!

Moder8's got a good point. I'd no idea Wussy and the other whiney riiighties would hurl themselves into Warp 9 Hissy Fit mode over this. It's like Santa Claus came early with a sackful of goodies.

Merry Christmas!

#83 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

What the fuck are you on today? I called you out for being a childish pinhead and Corky for being a liar. Both proven facts, 90 proof.

What? Is this supposed to be a Dem. victory? They have a super majority in both houses of Congress, and they had to buy off their own members to pass this piece of shit, and all this just to give B. Hussein O. a political victory at the expense of a vast majority of the American People who will pay dearly for this in so many ways. Why would anyone with an IQ over 90 want to support legislation coming from this group of imbeciles.

What posh salary? I make almost nothing.

#81 | Posted by kanrei

I've heard of scams where incorrect billing codes are used to overbill the govt. The Doctor gives a cut to the person doing the billing in the office.

Thanks Eddie, we will live to fight another day, but most people just don't get it.

Why would anyone with an IQ over 90 want to support legislation coming from this group of imbeciles.
#98 | Posted by nevadastu

From the way its been explained to me, its preferable to supporting legislation from that other group of imbeciles.

From what this bill initially looked like to what it is now, The Left is claiming some huge victory? I'll bet you are still celebrating the Obama victory of getting the Olympics for Rio de Janeiro.

New World Order, baby!

This is part of a worldwide health care plan that was introduced after WWII. It's taken this long for the U.S. to catch up. We're all part of a collective now. Bush41 introduced it. The sovereignty of the United States is slipping away.

In some insidious ironic way we're becoming more and more like France. The French have managed to conquer the world.

#97 | Posted by wisgod

If that idiot Sarvis had one more neuron he'd have a synapse....

#73 | That was a joke Bill by one Senator, not an official GOP Bill, because there wasn't one.

-From what this bill initially looked like to what it is now

Ah. Baby steps. Guess what it will look like 8 years from now when the public, which still wants a public option by 59 percent, finally gets their way.

Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.

Does this mean that the final vote on Christmas will require only a majority to pass, and not 60?

#73 | That was a joke Bill by one Senator, not an official GOP Bill, because there wasn't one.

#105 | Posted by Corky

I guess they assigned a number to it by mistake. Bwahahaha. And those 7 co-authors are fictional characters. Bwahahahah!
You poor little thing.

"The filibuster allows a very small minority prevent the will of the vast majority."
#17 | Posted by danni

That pretty much sums up this congress. They rammed health care down our throats without any real reform and it still doesn't insure all the people. The vast majority of citizens are against but the Democrats say "f**k you, we are doing it anyway"!

Now it's baby steps. LOL!!! Did David Axlerod snore last night, Cork?

#73 | That was a joke Bill by one Senator, not an official GOP Bill, because there wasn't one.

#105 | Posted by Corky

LOL!!

You really aren't keeping up are you?

Do you realize that everything that the Right has tried to introduce has been "left out of the bill"?

You're not that stupid, are you Corky?

#99 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-21 12:05 PM |

Urban Legend. Insurance companies ask for all paperwork to justify the code used if there is any question like a Pulmonary doctor billing a cardiac code. I am sure it has happened before, but the system in place really stops it from happening.

-You poor little thing.

Apparently this news has caused Wissy's cheesehat to shrink, cutting the blood flow to his "brain".

The GOP, the Party, the GOP, had no Bill that it agreed on. There were some individual ideas floated, but again, defeating the Pres and the public option that Americans wanted was more important than the GOP presenting an alternative Bill.

#112 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-12-21 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag: Cornered market on stupid after first few posts on this site

Kanrei what about billing for routine tests that were not performed. Like a doc billing for a strep test even though they know the sore throat is viral. Or labs that were not performed? Happens all the time.

defeating the Pres and the public option that Americans wanted was more important than the GOP presenting an alternative Bill.

you were counting on them doing that so you could blame them.

WTF are you going to do Corky, you can't blame the GOP for "duping" or defend the dems for "being lied to" or anything?

Instead you can place the blame for not having a public option squarely on the head of the dems.

but by all means, continue with the bashing of the GOP. It is a good place to direct your criticism. you might as well blame the fucking janitor at the Capitol building while you are at it.

It only proves your complete lack of objectivity and reality.

Like a doc billing for a strep test even though they know the sore throat is viral.

Because of the current malpractice laws, doctors MUST run tests because it is no longer what you know, but what you can prove. To prove it is a viral sore throat, strep must be ruled out and the doctor must prove he looked for strep because they have been sued and lost for saying it was viral and it becoming strep and lost for not doing the strep test.

You questions show me you get most of your medical information from those who don't have much themselves. Not an insult as most of the posts here are from people with no clue of what they speak.

Let's see, 2009 closes with the WingDings having the Privilege of Owning the "Lie of The Year", a clinic on enumerable Flip-Flops and a Bitch Slap from none other than Jesus himself!

As John McCain would say: "We Gottem where we Want em"

Or perhaps as the "rights" voice in the morning puts it: "This is Huuuuudge"

Merry Christmas Indeed!

You're not that stupid, are you Corky?

#112 | Posted by Eddie

He's leading the pack today. Sarvis is stumbling behind a distant 2nd.

The standard letter we get for every patient from the insurance companies when we bill is a "please send all doctor's notes and all pertinent medical records to process billing." We get this for about 90% of the people we bill. The insurance companies know exactly what they are paying for and fight tooth and nail to not have to pay it.

You questions show me you get most of your medical information from those who don't have much themselves. Not an insult as most of the posts here are from people with no clue of what they speak.

class warfare Kanrei. nothing more. Jackass is a loser to any health insurance company because of his condition and yet he has access to health care despite his problems.

Yet he does nothing more than froth at the mouth at health providers, insurance companies, and employers who have all been gracious enough to extend their help to him.

You questions show me you get most of your medical information from those who don't have much themselves. Not an insult as most of the posts here are from people with no clue of what they speak.

#118 | Posted by kanrei

I know labs were billing for full panels even though doctors didn't request them. So I know what type of corruption can occur. I also know you live in Miami and claim you get paid dirt. One way or another you seem to be making ends meet. My guess is something underhanded and that is why you are so against reform.

I also know you live in Miami and claim you get paid dirt. One way or another you seem to be making ends meet. My guess is something underhanded and that is why you are so against reform.

Well, asshole, we are done. Calling me a criminal is pathetic and low, even for you.

One way or another you seem to be making ends meet.

Jackass must be sucking dick for $3 on street corners to make ends meet.

someone told me on a blog so that qualifies as good enough for me.

Jackass is a loser to any health insurance company because of his condition and yet he has access to health care despite his problems.

#122 | Posted by eberly

Insurance companies have deemed me uninsurable due to some mental health stays which is bs if you ask me. My physical health is fine.

most inmates are low level drug offenders.

with 3 or 4 pass convictions and probation violations and charge reduced down to get a guilty verdict.

Jackass must be sucking dick for $3 on street corners to make ends meet.

Posted by eberly

$1.89 in December with coupon.

Calling me a criminal is pathetic and low, even for you.
#124 | Posted by kanrei

You've been called far worse here, fence-monkey.

;)

How does Kanrei make ends meet- for Jackass:

No cable
No home phone, cell only
Never have lights on at home.
AC at 78; 85 when not home
Eats crap- tuna, peanut butter, and goes to parent's house twice a week.

Is single
doesn't date
doesn't buy useless crap
No credit cards

AKA- lives smart

You've been called far worse here, fence-monkey.

;)

#129 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

=D

I have been called worse by a better class of people. It is not only what is said, but who says it. I don't like talking to Jackass normally, so it isn't much to say goodbye to him.

No cable
No home phone, cell only
Never have lights on at home.
AC at 78; 85 when not home
Eats crap- tuna, peanut butter, and goes to parent's house twice a week.

Is single
doesn't date
doesn't buy useless crap
No credit cards

AKA- lives smart

#130 | Posted by kanrei

Lives awful if you ask me.

I don't believe you live like that though.

$1.89 in December with coupon.

I forgot that it must be "hard" to get men to whip out their boners when it's 12 degrees outside.

if you ask me.

#132 | Posted by jackass

No one ever has....anything....ever

LOL, Jackass is a spoiled brat who lives beyond his means, gets into creditcard debt, and then cries about it obviously if he can't believe I am happy living within my means.

"The GOP, the Party, the GOP, had no Bill that it agreed on. There were some individual ideas floated, but again, defeating the Pres and the public option that Americans wanted was more important than the GOP presenting an alternative Bill."

How is it possible that the GOP was responsible for the P/O not being in this legislation? Exactly how did the GOP influence the dems, who would not have voted yes with it in the Bill? Seeing as the dems made sure this was 100 percent their legislation and didn't need one republican vote, who would be stupid enough to even mention the GOP or blame them for any part of this doomed and untruthful Bill? Other than the foolish and sold out libs.

Actually Kanrei I owe a couple hundred dollars in CC debt. I just don't think I could be happy living like you claim you do especially in Miami. I was there on Business last winter and dropped 600 on drinks in one night in South Beach so I know that nobody can live well there if they aren't making decent money. I'd have to be pulling at least 100K to live there modestly.

Insurance companies have deemed me uninsurable due to some mental health stays which is bs if you ask me. My physical health is fine.

your physical health is not the issue, your mental health is and apparently maintaining your mental health is very expensive and risky in that it could affect your physical health.

you could get separated from your meds and attempt to kill yourself....being the libtard you are, you would probably fuck that up too and end up in the hospital for 6 weeks in ICU more $$$$$$$$$ out the window.

that is why you are uninsurable.

enough insults for now.

back later.

"Lives awful if you ask me."

Riiiiight. Better to blow $90 on vodka you can't afford, cross the border to get cheaper hookers, and then complain others don't want to pay your way.

"and dropped 600 on drinks in one night in South Beach"

Like I said....

Being angry and bitter is no way to start off Christmas week, eberly.

AKA- lives smart

You call that living?

I love it. I have been called a liar and a thief in the same thread. Go for the trifecta and scream "pervert" too.

Does this mean that the final vote on Christmas will require only a majority to pass, and not 60?

#108 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-12-21 12:28 PM

Does this mean that the final vote on Christmas will require only a majority to pass, and not 60?

#108 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

If Pelosi does not want a conference then just the House votes on the Senate bill version only.

The prior house bill would be out in the gutter. No public option and all the other stuff they had in their bill.

If Pelosi wants to conference--they can combine parts of both bills to make a new bill and both houses would have to vote on the conferenced bill.

Not sure if majority needed or I heard only 100 votes needed to pass the conferenced bill.

And if it is different--it still has to pass the senate 60-40--again.

Someone can correct me if this is not exact.

So basically it comes to Pelosi and what she wants to do--pass the Senate bill as is or have a conference and make a new bill.

You call that living?

#143 | Posted by Ron_Karate

Yes, I own, not rent. I bought in 2001 before the world changed. I got a fixed morgage, so my payments are very affordable. Between Hulu and Netflix, who needs cable? With a cellphone paid for by work, why have a home phone? I don't live "high on the hog" or anything like that, but I have a very comfortable and happy life that I enjoy to the fullest. What else really matters?

#97 | Posted by wisgod

Cry me a river, you puling whiner.

By the way, I can't recommend today's version of Rush Limbaugh's nationally given-away-for-free radio comedy show enough. Especially for those of you who've watched Wussy and the gang melting down on this thread. It's hilarious! The bozos are in full Chicken Little mode.

#144 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-12-21 01:14 PM | Flag: Pervert; Also doesn't tip well, wears too much cologne, and swears around children

Does this mean that the final vote on Christmas will require only a majority to pass, and not 60?

#108 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-12-21 12:28 PM

Yes, a "Super Majority" is only needed to break filibusters, override Veto's (I think), or to pass Constitutional Amendments. All Bills only require a simple majority to pass.

Especially for those of you who've watched Wussy and the gang melting down on this thread. It's hilarious! The bozos are in full Chicken Little mode.

#148 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Translation: chug-a-lug.

The difference between you and me, Wussy, is there's no evidence for my drinking. Your status as the personification of a festering douchebag is a different story.

Miami has the finest escorts on the planet. You aren't living until you have tried them.

#99 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-21 12:05 PM |

Urban Legend. Insurance companies ask for all paperwork to justify the code used if there is any question like a Pulmonary doctor billing a cardiac code. I am sure it has happened before, but the system in place really stops it from happening.

#113 | Posted by kanrei

Of course it's an urban legend, but it's the fault of Miss Information that fuels the evil that's going on in Washington.

On a side note, and to the credit Mr. Jackass' incredible ignorance, there is a very high fraud rate from the private organizations that manage Medicaid and Medicare health (Home Health Agencies). These are not run by doctors, but undereducated "administators" who get rich off of our money.

These organizations are regulated by government!

-You poor little thing.

Apparently this news has caused Wissy's cheesehat to shrink, cutting the blood flow to his "brain".

The GOP, the Party, the GOP, had no Bill that it agreed on. There were some individual ideas floated, but again, defeating the Pres and the public option that Americans wanted was more important than the GOP presenting an alternative Bill.

#114 | Posted by Corky

BULLSHIT!!!

This belief is getting out of hand. The few who actually believe this bullshit are on Capital Hill right now.

Americans don't want this shit!

The difference between you and me, Wussy, is there's no evidence for my drinking.
Posted by Doc_Sarvis

If you're not drunk, you should be sharing a padded cell with Jackass.

Yes, a "Super Majority" is only needed to break filibusters, override Veto's (I think), or to pass Constitutional Amendments. All Bills only require a simple majority to pass.

#150 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-12-21 01:18 PM

So I guess then the only question that remains is whether the final bill will look like the house version or the senate. I can't imagine them not getting 51 votes on what they have now.

Sure beats your situation, Wussy, reaking of peppermint schnapps, deisel oil douche, and Old Spice.

Maybe the Democrats needs to grow some nuts.

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

"Americans don't want this shit!"

Fortunately, for the rest of us, you are incorrect.

I love it. I have been called a liar and a thief in the same thread. Go for the trifecta and scream "pervert" too.

#144 | Posted by kanrei

You molest sand fleas too???

Pervert!

there is a very high fraud rate from the private organizations that manage Medicaid and Medicare health

This is true, or at least it was. There were many, many cases in the 80's of patients dying, and medicare offices still billing monthly as if they were still alive. Many doctors during that time period followed suit and there was a lot of fraud everywhere, but that ended around 1988 with reform of Medicare.

The systems, when compared however, still shows that Medicare has way more fraud than private insurances. What we need is regulation of the private insurance companies, and not just health insurance, but all insurance. It is an old west/ mafia time period for them where they can charge what they want and drop you when you need them.

Maybe the Democrats needs to grow some nuts.

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

#159 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-21 01:43 PM |

They were called "lacking balls," not stomachs =P

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

#159 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-21 01:43 PM |

They are lacking integrity though. How can you libs be silent knowing what that POS Reid did to get the 60 votes? You have done nothing but piss and moan since the day I signed in about the repubs politics when they held all three Houses. Now we know the bribes and backroom deals and all of the sudden you all clam up? You couldn't give a rat's ass what is in the bill or not? Just as long as it passes? Landreau, Dodd, Nelson can be bought and nobody says a fucking word?

Landreau, Dodd, Nelson can be bought and nobody says a fucking word?

not to mention they spent hundreds of millions buying votes for a bill the insurance companies and big pharma WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

what a new and refreshing concept. poor people and sick people will be able to get health insurance. rich folk will have to share the waiting room. wow only in america after more than 200 years

what a new and refreshing concept. poor people and sick people will be able to get health insurance.

how?

watch

"not to mention they spent hundreds of millions buying votes for a bill the insurance companies and big pharma WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!"

When this does prove to be a giveaway and taxes are raised, any doubt the libs will blame the GOP? Not to mention when the stars don't all align and people figure out it was billions more with less benefits.

When this does prove to be a giveaway and taxes are raised, any doubt the libs will blame the GOP?

for most of the libs here??? no doubts.

there might be a few who will assign blame where it belongs but they will be very few in number.

#168 | Posted by Georgeisadrunk at 2009-12-21 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag:has no fucking clue and prays someone throws him a bone

ONLY 172 posts in a thread about healthcare posted at 9am EST? SLACKERS! This should be at 750 at least by now.

#130 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-12-21 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like me, except I grow food and eat well.

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

Guts ain't balls, sir.

The Republicans manage to thwart or delay any progress the Democrats make toward their agenda and the Democrats capitulate.

The Democrats were given broad approval from the voters to mount reforms across the board. What have we gotten? A watered down health-care reform bill that reforms what? It's been, admittedly, stripped of all significant changes in order to get it past the threat of constant filibuster by Republicans.

What else? No broad change to prevent an economic crisis such as the one we're in right now. Just throw more money at the problem, hope the corporations of fucked up do the right thing.

It takes guts to do what you believe in despite public opinion. It takes balls to knowingly shit on the American people. Bush had Balls. It remains to be seen if this is guts or balls on the DNC's part.

#172...

Look at the thread. Dems break GOP filibuster? Why would the GOP want to filibuster this suicide pact by dems? All they need do is point out the scummy party leaders and bribed senators involved and wait for the actual cost numbers to be exposed. Not to mention lawsuits and challenges.

Was there ever really a filibuster technically, or was this just a vote to end debate so they can vote on before Xmas?

It remains to be seen if this is guts or balls on the DNC's part.
#174 | Posted by kanrei

We'll know by the smell of it before too long.

That thought just made me wretch a little.

Was there ever really a filibuster technically, or was this just a vote to end debate so they can vote on before Xmas?
#176 | Posted by kanrei

you got it right.

"We'll know by the smell of it before too long."

(He grabs the biggest bat in the array, steps up to the plate, flexes his shoulders and...)

;>)

;>)

#179 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

LOL. Now I'm really gonna puke.

"Was there ever really a filibuster technically, or was this just a vote to end debate so they can vote on before Xmas?"

There was never any real threat of a filibuster by the GOP. All Harry had to do was keep his troops in line and bribe a couple of Indys. Which he succeeded in doing. All the bickering and concessions were strictly dem on dems. The repubs have not had any say, or anything to do with this. It is laughable to even care what the repubs did or didn't do. There was nothing in it for them if they voted yes. Now they will benefit from having leaders like Reid and Pelosi and Obama.

WAIT....! Are Hag and Crispee suggesting a headline on the Retort is incorrect? Oh my, it is!

President Obama on Monday called the Senate vote to end debate and move toward passing a health care bill "a big victory for the American people."

Kind of like Bush's "the time for debate is over" when dealing with going to war because he knew further research would disprove his claims.

Actually the dems broke a democrat filibuster. Since the democrats have 60 votes in the senate nothing the republicans do can filibuster a bill. Just another attempt by democrats to paint the republicans as the vilian.

I have to admit the democrats are breaking records in their effort to bankrupt this country. Well November is only 11 months away.

It takes guts to do what you believe in despite public opinion. It takes balls to knowingly shit on the American people. Bush had Balls. It remains to be seen if this is guts or balls on the DNC's part.

Despite of public opinion, what you really mean is "fuck the American People, those rat bastards don't know what the fuck they need, we'll tell them, and get a little for ourselves while we're at it."

This had nothing to do with the American People or Health Care. This was nothing more than the Democrats shitting on everyone else because they can. These slimy whores are not worth the sweat on Bush's balls, or even the sweat on Bush's dog's balls. A slow roast in hell is too good for these pukes, completely ignoring the will of those they've sworn to represent. Traitors all.

WAIT....! Are Hag and Crispee suggesting a headline on the Retort is incorrect? Oh my, it is!

It's not entirely inaccurate. They broke the threat of filibuster that was guaranteed without the sixtieth vote. Saying it was a GOP filibuster was largely correct even though they'd need at least one DNC collaborator to achieve it.

Health costs. From the outset, the White House's core claim was that reform would reduce health costs for individuals and businesses, and they're sticking to that story. "Anyone who says otherwise simply hasn't read the bills," Mr. Obama said over the weekend. This is so utterly disingenuous that we doubt the President really believes it.

The best and most rigorous cost analysis was recently released by the insurer WellPoint, which mined its actuarial data in various regional markets to model the Senate bill. WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%. A small business based in Richmond with eight employees in average health will see a 23% increase. Insurance costs for a 40-year-old family with two kids living in Indianapolis will pay 106% more. And on and on.

These increases are solely the result of ObamaCareabove and far beyond the status quobecause its strict restrictions on underwriting and risk-pooling would distort insurance markets. All but a handful of states have rejected regulations like "community rating" because they encourage younger and healthier buyers to wait until they need expensive care, increasing costs for everyone. Benefits and pricing will now be determined by politics.

As for the White House's line about cutting costs by eliminating supposed "waste," even Victor Fuchs, an eminent economist generally supportive of ObamaCare, warned last week that these political theories are overly simplistic. "The oft-heard promise 'we will find out what works and what does not' scarcely does justice to the complexity of medical practice," the Stanford professor wrote.

online.wsj.com

Begs posting again.

"In the long run we can't continue to spend as if deficits don't have consequences, as if waste doesn't matter, as if the hard earned tax dollars of the American people can be treated like monopoly money, that's what we've seen time and time again, Washington has become more concerned about the next election than the next generation."

Holy cow - Haven't heard sitcom writing like this since Andy Griffith.

#184 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-12-21 03:04 PM You mean offering hundreds of millions dollars in bribes if the fourth Tuesday of April falls on a blue moon in a leap year... Or selling out to a Senator who wants other states to pick up the tab isn't bipartisan politics? But Harry says one American dies every ten minutes because the GOP didn't want healthcare reform.

"Saying it was a GOP filibuster was largely correct even though they'd need at least one DNC collaborator to achieve it."

That's why Corky blames the GOP for the dems passing this without a Public Option. Not to mention blaming Lieberman and ignoring Nelson, Landreau and Dodd holding out for hundreds of millions of dollars in order to get their vote.

"WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%. A small business based in Richmond with eight employees in average health will see a 23% increase. Insurance costs for a 40-year-old family with two kids living in Indianapolis will pay 106% more. And on and on."

Over what period of time? Two months? Two decades? Without knowing, those stats are meaningless. If it's, say, a decade, that's better for 12 of the 13 people you listed as compared to the prior decade.

"These increases are solely the result of ObamaCareabove"

Total bullshit. Medical inflation has been outpacing actual inflation for decades. Anyone who doesn't believe that it will continue without some counterpoint, especially as demand spikes with the baby boomers' retirement, has his head up his ass.

""The oft-heard promise 'we will find out what works and what does not' scarcely does justice to the complexity of medical practice," the Stanford professor wrote."

Unfortunately, that has more to do with the hard-headedness of 'Amurrrikans' than fact. We know what works and what does not: other countries spend a lower % of their GDP while insuring a larger % of their populace. Wellness works. Making it easier to exercise than drive through a fast-food joint works. Moving people from ERs to GPs works. The question is, are we willing to learn?

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) formally announced on Sunday that he would support the Senate's final version of health care reform. But in doing so he cast blame for the loss of a public option for insurance coverage partially on the president's shoulders and urged House and Senate negotiators to re-insert the government-run plan back into the legislation during conference committee.

From the Wisconsin Democrat's press office came the following statement:

I've been fighting all year for a strong public option to compete with the insurance industry and bring health care spending down. I continued that fight during recent negotiations, and I refused to sign onto a deal to drop the public option from the Senate bill. Unfortunately, the lack of support from the administration made keeping the public option in the bill an uphill struggle. Removing the public option from the Senate bill is the wrong move, and eliminates $25 billion in savings. I will be urging members of the House and Senate who draft the final bill to make sure this essential provision is included. [Ed. Note: Emphasis ours.]

But while the loss of the public option is a bitter pill to swallow, on balance, the bill still delivers meaningful reform, and the cost of inaction is simply too high. This bill significantly expands coverage and helps protect Wisconsinites from high costs and insurance company abuses, such as denying or restricting coverage based on pre-existing conditions. The bill also improves a flawed Medicare formula that denies Wisconsin fair reimbursement rates, encourages the kind of low-cost, high-value care practiced in our state, increases access to home and community-based long-term care, and reduces federal budget deficits by $132 billion over the next decade.

One of the prominent progressives in Congress, Feingold's statement gives voice to the frustration that many Democrats have felt when watching the health care debate unfold. The Obama White House, quite consciously, refused to draw a line around the public plan even as Senate Democrats practically begged for them to do so.

The decision may have been strategically astute -- positioning the president appropriately for when the public option was to meet its natural sacrifice. But it also opens the president to criticism like Feingold's and it feeds the meme of Obama's timidity.

oops, should be

And he apparently had a clue on how it would eventually have to turn out in the Senate with less than 60 progressives.

We know what works and what does not: other countries spend a lower % of their GDP while insuring a larger % of their populace. Wellness works. Making it easier to exercise than drive through a fast-food joint works. Moving people from ERs to GPs works. The question is, are we willing to learn?

they are heathier in those countries so all that illustrates is that it could work better. I agree Wellness works if utilized. Excercise is already easier than ever and I don't see where you can make it any easier...eventually fatasses are going to physically stop wanting to be a fatass.

are we willing to learn? at this point.....hell no. the apathy in this country with regard to health is horrendous.

"the apathy in this country with regard to health is horrendous"

Awwww...who cares?

Maybe the Democrats needs to grow some nuts.

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

#159 | Posted by rcade

RCade, bravery and blind stupidity are 2 different things.

Bravery would be the Democrats actually working with the Republicans to get a bill that the American people want.

Blind Stupidity is trying to "Pass a Bill! ANY Bill"

"the apathy in this country with regard to health is horrendous"

Awwww...who cares?

#195 | Posted by Danforth

FF

FF

There was never any real threat of a filibuster by the GOP.

If there was no threat of a filibuster, they could have gotten the bill through with 51 votes instead of 60. The threat was the whole reason it has taken so long. The Dems had to hold 60 votes together to close debate.

People who think this isn't an example of political courage should look at the polls. The Democrats and Obama have taken a big risk here, and it's one I expect to reward them in the future. Obama has as much guts undertaking this as Johnson did on the Civil Rights Act.

they could have gotten the bill through with 51 votes instead of 60.

The Bill has not gotten through and it only does take 51. It takes 60 to end debate.

Well, to end it prematurely. To filibuster is to hold the floor so that debate does not happen. You know this already Rcade.

The article is correct, your headline is not. The vote was to end debate and force a vote, not to stop a filibuster.

The Democrats are passing the biggest domestic bill in decades. Neither they nor President Obama is lacking in guts.

#159 | Posted by rcade

It takes more balls to be frugal and say "no, this isn't right" than to throw money that we don't have away.

Unfortunately, that has more to do with the hard-headedness of 'Amurrrikans' than fact. We know what works and what does not: other countries spend a lower % of their GDP while insuring a larger % of their populace. Wellness works. Making it easier to exercise than drive through a fast-food joint works. Moving people from ERs to GPs works. The question is, are we willing to learn?

#191 | Posted by Danforth

Bullshit!

you are going to provide a link.

RCade, bravery and blind stupidity are 2 different things.
Bravery would be the Democrats actually working with the Republicans to get a bill that the American people want.
Blind Stupidity is trying to "Pass a Bill! ANY Bill"
#196 | Posted by Eddie

First draft:

RCade, bravery and blind stupidity are 2 different things.
Bravery would be the Republicans actually working with the Democrats to get a bill that the American people want.
Blind Stupidity is trying to "Kill a Bill! ANY Bill"
#1.01| Posted by Eddie

-The vote was to end debate and force a vote, not to stop a filibuster.

A filibuster is extended debate. The vote ended debate, forestalling a filibuster.

Though it might have been rather pleasant watching Regressives read the phone book through Christmas....

Bravery would be the Democrats actually working with the Republicans to get a bill that the American people want.

That's not bravery, it's impossibility. Republicans were not remotely willing to work on a bill. They have been committed to obstruction for six months.

The Republicans don't give a crap about health insurance reform. They had years of Republican-led government to do something about it and failed to act.

The Republicans don't give a crap about health insurance reform.
#207 | Posted by rcade

What reform was accomplished with this bill? Oh, that's right. You guys put big Pharma in it's place. Bravo!

This bill significantly expands coverage and helps protect Wisconsinites from high costs and insurance company abuses, such as denying or restricting coverage based on pre-existing conditions. The bill also improves a flawed Medicare formula that denies Wisconsin fair reimbursement rates, encourages the kind of low-cost, high-value care practiced in our state, increases access to home and community-based long-term care, and reduces federal budget deficits by $132 billion over the next decade.

Russ F

"a flawed Medicare formula that denies Wisconsin fair reimbursement rates, encourages the kind of low-cost, high-value care practiced in our state,"

Huh?

What reform was accomplished with this bill?

The bill bans insurance companies from denying coverage for those with pre-existing conditions; covers 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured; requires individuals to purchase health insurance, subsidizing low-income people; and cuts the U.S. national deficit by $132 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Congressional Budet Office.

The bill bans insurance companies from denying coverage for those with pre-existing conditions; covers 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured; requires individuals to purchase health insurance, subsidizing low-income people; and cuts the U.S. national deficit by $132 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Congressional Budet Office.
#211 | Posted by rcade

Well, yeah, ugh huh, but that stuff aside, whuzzit do? Huh?

Congress is still waiting to hear final details of the Senate health care bill, but many of us have already heard what we needed to hear: There is no public option, there is no Medicare buy-in, there is no cost containment and there is no repeal of the health insurance industry's antitrust exemption. At this point, the only "public" element of the bill is the massive public subsidies the health insurance companies are set to receive, thanks to the individual mandate to purchase their product.

--Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) is the U.S. congressman from Arizona's 7th district and co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.|

Looks like you guys are slow in getting the info. You've been given new bitch marching orders, Corky. Get in line! LOL

I'm with the "real" progressives on this. Kill this hodge podged compromised piece of crap - now! Yay, progressives! LOL

Man, if you think the Dems in the House are going to do the GOPiggies' work for them and scuttle this bill now you need to open the rooms and ventilate the room.

RCade, bravery and blind stupidity are 2 different things.
Bravery would be the Republicans actually working with the Democrats to get a bill that the American people want.
Blind Stupidity is trying to "Kill a Bill! ANY Bill"
#1.01| Posted by Eddie

#205 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

They tried to get a bill that the Americans are asking for. It kept getting shot down.

Gee, let's see, Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) or Mrs Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold, the Pres and the Senate, et al..... boy, that is a tough one Cookfish!

We'll have to put in for your Heads Up! Bluebird Badge.

Congress is still waiting to hear final details of the Senate health care bill, but many of us have already heard what we needed to hear: There is no public option, there is no Medicare buy-in, there is no cost containment and there is no repeal of the health insurance industry's antitrust exemption. At this point, the only "public" element of the bill is the massive public subsidies the health insurance companies are set to receive, thanks to the individual mandate to purchase their product.

That's what attracted us to this bill in the first place! Just look at all our previous posts. LOL.

--Corc Sarvis

Man, if you think the Dems in the House are going to do the GOPiggies' work for them and scuttle this bill now you need to open the rooms and ventilate the room.

#215 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

That's right dude. The Dems are going to pass this shit if it floats or not!

2010 is just around the corner...

This is just the beginning, Cooky. There'll be a Single Payer Socialist under your bed tonight.... likely just as bored as you are.

The bill bans insurance companies from denying coverage for those with pre-existing conditions; covers 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured;

specifically how does it "cover 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured"?

"They tried to get a bill that the Americans are asking for"

The Republicans doing anything to reform the health care situation?!? Now that is some funny shit!

One of the more amusing aspects of the upcoming election period is going to be watching the Republicans attempting to reinvent themselves as Populists. I can hardly wait!

Man, if you think the Dems in the House are going to do the GOPiggies' work for them and scuttle this bill

no, they will do the GOPiggies' work for them by PASSING it.

and just like the Senate, enact a bigger bailout for the health insurance industry than AIG's. (to quote Howard Dean)

why would the republicans stand in the way of that? (except to piss off Obama)

Coming to seriously contested congressional elections near you, next year, here's how it'll play out, kiddos:

Scene: The Capitol

"Last year, every single Republican member of the United States Senate voted against ________ (fill in the health care blank). All but _____ of the Republicans in the House voted to deny YOU ____ (fill in the health care blank). Now that there's an election coming up, the same people who voted to keep you from ___ (fill in the health care blank) are trying to tell you that they attempted to do to you they did for you. Isn't it time Congress represented YOU?"

Enjoy!

"specifically how does it "cover 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured"?"

Blankets, mostly.

Including some without smallpox.

#220
That would be me. But I promise you I won't be bored... he he he.

One of the more amusing aspects of the upcoming election period is going to be watching the Republicans attempting to reinvent themselves as Populists.

it will be almost as amusing as watching dems try and run from this bill when people realize the biggest beneficiaries of it are the insurance lobby and big pharma.

personally, the most amusing thing will be watching you try and spin it away and blame it on the GOP and Rush Limbaugh.

Blankets, mostly.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "blanket" lobby who will benefit also.

The Republicans don't give a crap about health insurance reform. They had years of Republican-led government to do something about it and failed to act. - Rcade

Of course they don't. They are simply obstructionist and they loathe the President and the majority party. They ignore every "reasonable" traditional rule of Congress. They are the Enemy of the People and they should be thrown out and never given another job other than at a fast food restaurant where they will have to be watched so they don't contaminate the food.

"I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "blanket" lobby who will benefit also."

Yup. 4 for $10.

Oh...wait...you're the government?

4 for $10,000.

But I'll donate to your campaign.

"Last year, every single Republican member of the United States Senate voted against a bailout for evil health insurance/pharma companies_ (fill in the health care blank). All but _____ of the Republicans in the House voted to protect YOU _from the dems attempt to pay off the ins/pharma lobby__ (fill in the health care blank). Now that there's an election coming up, the same people who voted to keep you from going broke paying for it___ (fill in the health care blank) are trying to tell you that they attempted to do to you they did for you. Isn't it time Congress represented YOU?"

it will be almost as amusing as watching dems try and run from this bill when people realize the biggest beneficiaries of it are the insurance lobby and big pharma.
#227 | Posted by eberly

You think that's a problem? They'll point to the positive change and ask if people preferred what the GOP had on offer -- no change, nothing for the people of this country -- or what they've finally gotten. And then they'll talk about what can be done in future by electing more Democrats.

If I was running for office I'd be infinitely more comfortable taking that tack than the "Ugh=Ugh, What? Us? Nope, Nothing" pitch to which the GOPiggies harken.

But, don't worry: we'll see, soon enough.

Of course they don't. They are simply obstructionist and they loathe the President and the majority party.

I'm attacking the dems for this legislation but your point stands. I defend nothing on the part of the repubs and their motivation for being against this nothing more than their political opposition to Obama.

Well, yeah, ugh huh, but that stuff aside, whuzzit do? Huh?

#212 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Marble mouth missed the word "assumes" used by the Congressional Budet Office.

There'll be a Single Payer Socialist under your bed tonight....

Not if I sick the dog on you again, Corky. LOL

The Republicans don't give a crap about health insurance reform. They had years of Republican-led government to do something about it and failed to act.

#207 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-21 04:07 PM

I guess all Harry had to do was offer the same bribes used to get the votes from Lanreau, Nelson, and Dodd. Which you and every lib here has accepted without a whimper. Imagine if the repubs held out for the same concessions. Not to mention the millions Senate dems have taken from the lobbyists involved with this scam. Of course these same dems in charge of writing this, were the same ones who allowed banks to have the most profitable year in history under the guise of economic collapse if they didn't act.

The repubs did propose a HC reform plan when Bush was in office. Of course Kennedy and Reid made sure that went nowhere.

You think that's a problem?

certainly. Has Bush and Cheney's acceptance of support from oil and defense contractors been a problem for them?

They'll point to the positive change

when there is some then I'll concede that point. I don't see where there will be any unless more details of how the actual consumer will really benefit is revealed

and ask if people preferred what the GOP had on offer -- no change, nothing for the people of this country -- or what they've finally gotten. And then they'll talk about what can be done in future by electing more Democrats.

fair enough, but you and I know the pundits on the right will scream about the first 2 things but will be deadly silent on the 3rd.

so good luck with that.

"so good luck with that."

Against the Republicans? It doesn't take luck. Just opponents like the GOPers who've boxed themselves into an indefensible corner.

"Marble mouth missed the word "assumes" used by the Congressional Budet Office."

Just like SCHIP and the CBO estimates of that debacle. Of course the dems couldn't have cared less before they threw how many more billions into that toilet? Now they are willing to dump another trillion without any proof this will work?

specifically how does it "cover 31 million Americans who are presently uninsured"

Read the news stories -- primarily subsidies on low-income uninsured, the removal of pre-existing condition bans and the establishment of a national exchange where individuals and small businesses could buy insurance.

I guess all Harry had to do was offer the same bribes used to get the votes from Lanreau, Nelson, and Dodd. Which you and every lib here has accepted without a whimper.

I don't like the last-minute dealmaking -- and would love it if Reid could've told Nelson to fuck off -- but that's how laws get made, especially with the Senate's filibuster rule.

Read the news stories -- primarily subsidies on low-income uninsured, the removal of pre-existing condition bans and the establishment of a national exchange where individuals and small businesses could buy insurance.

I should have added "other than through the removal of pre-existing conditin bans" because I don't think that will have any real meaningful impact at all.

Unless you can show me where insurance companies are going to charge reasonable rates for those folks.

subsidies on low-income? okay, but again, let's see how it will work and who will qualify.

national exchange? again, reservations about the effectiveness but we will see.

"Just opponents like the GOPers who've boxed themselves into an indefensible corner."

The corner of not being bribed to pass a bill for the sake of their party? Or the box of selling out and accepting something that breaks every promise?

Just opponents like the GOPers who've boxed themselves into an indefensible corner.

if this legislation actually accomplishes anything (and that will take years and years to really know) then okay, but until then, all of them will have to run for relection with their opponent shoving the ins/big pharma give away in their face and they will be the ones "who've boxed themselves into an indefensible corner" for at least one election cycle.

"I don't like the last-minute dealmaking -- and would love it if Reid could've told Nelson to fuck off -- but that's how laws get made, especially with the Senate's filibuster rule."

Were Landreau and Dodd part of this filibuster threat? I love how all of the sudden blatant bribes are now considered dealmaking. How good is this legislation if Harry has to bribe his own party?

I don't like the last-minute dealmaking -- and would love it if Reid could've told Nelson to fuck off -- but that's how laws get made, especially with the Senate's filibuster rule.

thats the ticket! be all "ho-hum" about it when your party engages in it but shit your pants when the GOP does it. nobody notices the steaming hypocrisy.....really.

perhaps you should be outraged that the dems would allow the participation from and acceptance of funds from the ins/pharma industries (who are getting exactly what they want in this bill).

"Last year, every single Democrat member of the United States Senate voted for ________ (fill in the health care blank). All voted to grant YOU ____ (fill in the health care blank). Now that there's an election coming up, the same people who voted to give you (fill in the health care blank) are trying to tell you that you can't have it yet but taxes must still be paid but you can have your insurance before the President leaves office. Don't worry - it's guaranteed"

Enjoy!

#224 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Of course they don't. They are simply obstructionist and they loathe the President and the majority party.

Holy Deja Vu Batman! That is word for word what the Republicans said about the Democrats and their motivations.

Top 10 Reasons to Kill Senate Health Care Bill

--Jane Hamsher, Libby Nutjob Suddenly Trying to Make Sense

1.Forces you to pay up to 8% of your income to private insurance corporations -- whether you want to or not.

2.If you refuse to buy the insurance, you'll have to pay penalties of up to 2% of your annual income to the IRS.

3.Many will be forced to buy poor-quality insurance they can't afford to use, with $11,900 in annual out-of-pocket expenses over and above their annual premiums.

4.Massive restriction on a woman's right to choose, designed to trigger a challenge to Roe v. Wade in the Supreme Court.

5.Paid for by taxes on the middle class insurance plan you have right now through your employer, causing them to cut back benefits and increase co-pays.

6.Many of the taxes to pay for the bill start now, but most Americans won't see any benefits -- like an end to discrimination against those with preexisting conditions -- until 2014 when the program begins.

7.Allows insurance companies to charge people who are older 300% more than others.

8.Grants monopolies to drug companies that will keep generic versions of expensive biotech drugs from ever coming to market.

9.No re-importation of prescription drugs, which would save consumers $100 billion over 10 years.

10.The cost of medical care will continue to rise, and insurance premiums for a family of four will rise an average of $1,000 a year -- meaning in 10 years, your family's insurance premium will be $10,000 more annually than it is right now.

#249...

Don't forget most of the measures won't even take place for at least a few years.

Before or after the vote?

I am speechless at 251

So I guess then the only question that remains is whether the final bill will look like the house version or the senate. I can't imagine them not getting 51 votes on what they have now.

#157 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

That's why the WH is pressing Pelosi to shut the hell up and take the senate bill as is and no more conferencing.

Which is hard for the stretch lady to do with all those left wingers in the house and no public option in the senate bill.

If they change the senate bill in conference and the public option is added--it won't pass the senate even with 51 votes.

Unless you can show me where insurance companies are going to charge reasonable rates for those folks.

The requirement that everyone get health insurance expands the risk pool and will lower costs, absent other factors.

10.The cost of medical care will continue to rise, and insurance premiums for a family of four will rise an average of $1,000 a year -- meaning in 10 years, your family's insurance premium will be $10,000 more annually than it is right now.

this was the biggest reason why I was behind a public option. All of the rhetoric about the profit and innefficiency of private insurance companies isn't going to be addressed in this bill and I think, long term, without that addressed, has little chance of "reforming" anything.

thats the ticket! be all "ho-hum" about it when your party engages in it but shit your pants when the GOP does it. nobody notices the steaming hypocrisy.....really.

Straw man. I'm a realist about how Congress works, and I was a realist back when the GOP was running the place. My problem with the GOP-led Congress was the content of the legislation they passed, not the way they got it passed.

The requirement that everyone get health insurance expands the risk pool and will lower costs, absent other factors.

Like precedent, greed, history, human nature, standard operating procedure: things like that...oh, lower the "costs." That it will do, but it will not lower the rates AKA we pay the same.

My problem with the GOP-led Congress was the content of the legislation they passed, not the way they got it passed.

#257 | Posted by rcade at 2009-12-21 05:25 PM

That is true. I don't recall Rcade ever complaining about GOP tactics and he would actually sort of defend them sometimes. He hated what they used them to do.

Here's a Christmas wish. I wake up and hear the news that Harry Reid was beat to death by a mugger on Xmas eve. That would make a very merry Christmas for me.

Do you realize that some in the security business view an explicit desire for harm to come to another individual as a threat? That is something you should be mindful of (that is if you are capable of "being mindful" of anything).

Fortunately for Mr. Reid, most incompetent windbags and internet tough guys are not domestic terrorists and do not arouse suspicion unless they are reported.

The requirement that everyone get health insurance expands the risk pool and will lower costs, absent other factors.

That isn't exactly correct... the risk pool is large enough and we are attempting to have sick people enter the pool who haven't even been in it. and unless you place 10 healthy people for every sick person into the pool......

......that will NOT lower costs.

from a large pooling perspective (I'm in this business) the only way for this to work for everybody is for insurance companies to properly match premium to exposure....which means they are applying the right amount of premium to the proper exposures.

that means you have to charge enough to allow the sick people into the pool and I'm am pretty sure the insurance companies will do just that. sure, there will be some healthy people get into the pool who have been unwilling to pay premium but IMO, this will not offset the sick people.....unless of course they can't afford the premiums.

"The requirement that everyone get health insurance expands the risk pool and will lower costs, absent other factors."

Including the ten or so million who are not covered under this legislation? How are they included in the "everyone gets insurance"?

My problem with the GOP-led Congress was the content of the legislation they passed, not the way they got it passed.

the content? I am more concerned with the lack of content to address that there is no public option, there is no Medicare buy-in, there is no cost containment and there is no repeal of the health insurance industry's antitrust exemption.

This bill is is no way what informed people would have wanted.

Were Landreau and Dodd part of this filibuster threat? I love how all of the sudden blatant bribes are now considered dealmaking. How good is this legislation if Harry has to bribe his own party?

#245 | Posted by crispee_oc

I must have missed Sarvis, Corky and Rcades response. Maybe Moder8 will even stop crying long enough to chime in.

#260 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-12-21 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

From your anal(s):

I suggest the soccer community take that piece of C-street scum and let some fans from Caracas have their way with him.

Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-12-07 03:00 PM | Reply

BTW, are you one of those internet tough guys you complained about.

#264 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-12-21 05:41 PM

Those are the ones we know about. God only knows what other backroom deals Harry gave away. We do know the Repubs hands are clean and hopefully this will all play out in about 11 months and then November 2012.

Those are the ones we know about. God only knows what other backroom deals Harry gave away.
Posted by crispee_oc

The CBO took all the deals into account and we will still cut the deficit. -The mathematically challenged Liberals.

This bill is is no way what informed people would have wanted.

It could be better, but to reject the bill now would have killed the goal of universal health care for years. Even if all the bill did was eliminate pre-existing conditions and require the purchase of insurance, it would do a huge amount of good.

are you one of those internet tough guys you complained about

Apparently not, despite your best efforts to find a joke you can take out of context.

#268...

One would think the fact Howard Dean came out and told the dems to scrap the Senate Bill would prove how bad it is. Not to mention a few other key measures missing, that Obama and the dems promised would be in the final bill. Can't wait to see what Pelosi gives away to get this back to the Senate and WH by Thursday.

EDMONTON JOURNAL

reports that the coming deficit for that province alone is almost one BILLION

they also announce on december 5 something about hospitals being closed for some surgeries for two weeks normally but will now CLOSE for an additional week

AND some people have recieved free soap,toothbrushes, and razors but now will have to pay for those

IN MENTAL WARDS

here is your future if left unchecked
fuckin dupes.

Can't wait to see what Pelosi gives away to get this back to the Senate and WH by Thursday.

#269 | Posted by crispee_oc

Going to be one crowded teat.

"The CBO took all the deals into account and we will still cut the deficit. -The mathematically challenged Liberals."

Of course there have been changes and amendments added which the CBO has yet to vet. There is no doubt their assesment is smoke and mirrors, and contingent on about a hundred things having to go right. Of course when they don't...

The first person I meet from Nevada is going to be my bitch.

At least 60% of inmates are gangmembers.
#12 | Posted by chickenrancher

Huh??? Is there a link to support that? I have read most inmates are low level drug offenders.

#13 | POSTED BY JACKASS

90% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Unless you can show me where insurance companies are going to charge reasonable rates for those folks.
The requirement that everyone get health insurance expands the risk pool and will lower costs, absent other factors.

#254 | POSTED BY RCADE

Larger pool = less risk. In this case more competition does NOT result in lower premiums due to smaller risk pool.

but here is info from business shows on sat
and I DIDNT MAKE THEM UP...

SIX billion for green jobs is said to create 125,000 new jobs

estimate?? about 100k per job..

where do I sign up?

OOPS>.....SOLAR PANELS are being made OVERSEAS

as well as many new GREEN AUTOS....

OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One would think the fact Howard Dean came out and told the dems to scrap the Senate Bill would prove how bad it is.

So you're following Howard Dean's advice now? When he recommended the bill a week earlier because it had Medicare buy-in, did you think it proved how good the bill was?

Oh, well... enjoy your vacation, dipshit!

It's a permanent vacation. People should not use this site to advocate or wish for the deaths of public figures, even in jest. The Secret Service takes that stuff seriously, as do I.

"So you're following Howard Dean's advice now? When he recommended the bill a week earlier because it had Medicare buy-in, did you think it proved how good the bill was?"

I think this legislation is a pile of shit. You were the one saying it would be a setback if the Senates dems did not pass this. Dean is the one who said scrap it and start over. I couldn't give a rats ass what Dean thinks. But the fact he came out against it, speaks more about you and the dems as opposed to me and the repubs.

I couldn't give a rats ass what Dean thinks.

Then why say, "One would think the fact Howard Dean came out and told the dems to scrap the Senate Bill would prove how bad it is"? It seems to me that like the Republicans in the Senate, you're grasping for anything you can find to criticize the bill, even stuff you don't believe.

Republicans had a chance to win this fight by putting a moderate health insurance reform bill together and peeling off moderate Democrats. They didn't even try.

It's a permanent vacation.

I'm heartbroken.

People should not use this site to advocate or wish for the deaths of public figures, even in jest. The Secret Service takes that stuff seriously, as do I.

For all the heat you seem to take about dumping or not dumping comments, you have always been quick and consistent in dealing with with this sort of thing. Threats are also the only kind of comment I can ever remember flagging in a negative way, and I think everyone would agree that calling for the assassination of public figures is dumpworthy. Some stuff is definitely beyond the pale.

Just curious, have you ever gotten a call or knock at your door because of something on the retort? Hypothetically speaking, if you did, could say that you did?

rcade

how can such a fart smeller as yourself say they didnt even try. I saw more than a couple of bills and such being presented..
AND AGAIN>.with the numbers so heavily weighed one way...gop MUST SAY NO first to keep it from being shoved down our throats like it is

SIXTY ONE percent say they dont want it and dems are ignoring that...

ALSO..on cnn...state of the union yesterday morning

BLOOMBERG who is a RINO..said that he has talked to many congressmen and senators about the bill and NONE OF them know whats in it?

"Republicans had a chance to win this fight by putting a moderate health insurance reform bill together and peeling off moderate Democrats. They didn't even try."

Howard Dean is far from a republican. Not to mention Ben Nelson, Mary Ladreau and Chris Dodd. All three held out for concessions. The fact you try and mention the republicans at all shows either desperation or proves the dems wrote a shitty bill. The GOPs have nothing to do with this. They were never even asked or given any opportunity to have a voice. Of course you didn't have any comment when I mentioned what the leading dems in the Senate did when the GOP did in fact offer some sort of reform. Here it is again, since you either didn't know or have no answer.

Worst of all was the five-page memo distributed by Sen. Edward Kennedy to Democratic colleagues that ought to embarrass a man who considers himself the Senate's leading health-care expert -- a compendium of half-truths, unsupported assumptions and outright lies. Kennedy reverted to the hackneyed rhetoric of class warfare, asserting that the president's proposals will do nothing for working families, give new tax breaks to the rich, increase the number of uninsured and encourage everyone to buy less insurance coverage than they should have.

In fact, all of these are almost precisely the opposite of the truth.

The president's health plan would, in fact, put a cap on a $200 billion-a-year tax break that now goes disproportionately to those with the most generous and costly employer-provided health insurance plans. It would redirect a small portion of that break to those who have less generous coverage or those who have to buy their own insurance because their employer does not offer it. For a few million of the roughly 47 million Americans with no insurance, it may also make the difference between being able to afford basic insurance or not.

The fact that some of those who have these rich policies happen to be members of auto or postal unions doesn't change that the president's proposal would make the tax code more progressive, not less. They are the aristocrats of the working class who, like lawyers, investment bankers and journalists, earn more in tax-free benefits each year than uninsured janitors earn in taxable wages. And whatever modest tax increase they might face from the cap on tax-free health benefits, it is certainly less than the tax cuts they got from Bush that Democrats are so eager to rescind.

Almost every health economist agrees that the tax subsidy for employer-paid health insurance is not only unfair but that it also encourages people to buy too much insurance, consume too much health care and pay too much for both. Bush deserves praise for having the political courage to confront the issue.

It's time to do away with the filibuster.
#8 | Posted by danni

One day we will be the minority again.

#9 | POSTED BY JACKASS AT 2009-12-21 09:41 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

For once in my life, I agree with both of you...

It's a permanent vacation. People should not use this site to advocate or wish for the deaths of public figures, even in jest. The Secret Service takes that stuff seriously, as do I.

#278 | Posted by rcade

And the Oscar goes to.....

And the Oscar goes to.....

#285 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-12-21 07:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't get it. Are you claiming that RCADE has advocated for the deaths of public figures?

And Zombiehunter, balls are on sale at spalding.com

I don't get it. Are you claiming that RCADE has advocated for the deaths of public figures?

#286 | Posted by BetelG

No, just a great performance.

No, just a great performance.

#288 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-12-21 07:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Spell it out for me. I'm slow.

2ndcrusade will be back. He was banned once before and made it back. Look how many times Rex has made it back. With proxy servers It is pretty easy to make yourself look like somebody you are not.

Spell it out for me. I'm slow.

#289 | Posted by BetelG

P E R F O R M A N C E

And Zombiehunter, balls are on sale at spalding.com

I'm not your mother, and I'm not santa. I couldn't care less what you want for Christmas.

Maybe if you are very lucky and pray hard enough, you will wake up on the 25th and have grown a pair of your own.

Wisgod-
No. I mean, you claimed that RCADE was giving a performance regarding this matter. What did you mean by this? Did you have an example? You accused RCADE of being insincere, and so I was wondering if you have anything to back it up, or were just talking out of your ass.

And the Oscar goes to.....

Posted by wisgod

the spammer?

....the Democrats should have stuck to a tough bill and let the Repubs fillibuster.......

......that would have been a sight.....the Repubs actually working for a living.......

Re 270:

"EDMONTON JOURNAL

reports that the coming deficit for that province alone is almost one BILLION

they also announce on december 5 something about hospitals being closed for some surgeries for two weeks normally but will now CLOSE for an additional week

AND some people have recieved free soap,toothbrushes, and razors but now will have to pay for those

IN MENTAL WARDS"

Could you post the link to that? I'd like to read it but can't find it.

You accused RCADE of being insincere, and so I was wondering if you have anything to back it up, or were just talking out of your ass.

#293 | Posted by BetelG

Bev Harris was one that I had 21 days to think about.

P.S. Bani, look up the definition of spammer, pudd'in head.

Top 10 Reasons to Kill Senate Health Care Bill

1. Forces you to pay up to 8% of your income to private insurance corporations - whether you want to or not
2. If you refuse to buy the insurance, you'll have to pay penalties of up to 2% of your annual income to the IRS.
3. Many will be forced to buy poor-quality insurance they can't afford to use, with $11,900 in annual out-of-pocket expenses over and above their annual premiums
4. Massive restriction on a woman's right to choose, designed to trigger a challenge to Roe v. Wade in the Supreme Court
5. Paid for by taxes on the middle class insurance plan you have right now through your employer, causing them to cut back benefits and increase co-pays
6. Many of the taxes to pay for the bill start now, but most Americans won't see any benefits - like an end to discrimination against those with preexisting conditions - until 2014 when the program begins.
7. Allows insurance companies to charge people who are older 300% more than others
8. Grants monopolies to drug companies that will keep generic versions of expensive biotech drugs from ever coming to market.
9. No re-importation of prescription drugs, which would save consumers $100 billion over 10 years
10. The cost of medical care will continue to rise, and insurance premiums for a family of four will rise an average of $1,000 a year - meaning in 10 years, your family's insurance premium will be $10,000 more annually than it is right now.

Just curious, have you ever gotten a call or knock at your door because of something on the retort? Hypothetically speaking, if you did, could say that you did?

Aside from the Associated Press complaints, no. I have gotten requests for other sites that I publish from law enforcement and lawyers. My policy is that I will not release personal information without a court order.

You accused RCADE of being insincere, and so I was wondering if you have anything to back it up, or were just talking out of your ass.

I have no idea what Wisgod is trying to imply. I've treated threats against public figures the same in all the years I've been publishing the Retort. I take a dim view of that stuff, no matter the target. I condemn even trivial acts of violence against politicians, including the shoe thrower and the Palin tomato tosser.

Aside from the Associated Press complaints, no.

That's good. I think that happened before or right as I was joining the site but I seem to recall you came out ahead in whatever dispute it was.

#301 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-12-21 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag: Spit or Swallow

Sorry but I don't want to cyber with you, Wissy.

Sorry but I don't want to cyber with you, Wissy.

#303 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Are you gay?

Are you gay?

No... sorry to rain on your parade.

Why didn't you see if I was gay before asking if I wanted you to spit or swallow?

Rogers reveals, "The Republicans don't give a crap about health insurance reform. They had years of Republican-led government to do something about it and failed to act."

Tort reform has been a bipartisan issue, discussed over and over in both Houses, and where the graft shows itself in tabling the issue, also bipartisanly. It is interesting to note that the issue has *again* been ignored by the party with a 60 vote majority ...

Instead, as yet untold millions in graft are included in this 2000 plus document which no open debate has been allowed, and how much for those who have bought off any tort reform ... is the ACLU, et al, beneficiaries of this bill?

No organized crime organization is as efficient at laundering lobbying graft, than the politicians in-charge of government, now.

You, Rogers? You are a knowing stooge for this display of political chicanery and dictatorial efforts to control the American populace by taxing them into submission with "free" stuff from the generous party which forces them into working for the government, birth to death ...

I suspect it is a matter of 'team' sport for you, isn't it? Or, are you actually a scion of the original Yellow-Dog-Democrats, continuing their hatred of the evil Republicans forcing them to pay for workers to pick their cotton, and all; instead of the cost savings of a whip?

Whip the public into government healthcare, don't need no Republican carpetbagging debate ...

???

Tort reform has been a bipartisan issue, discussed over and over in both Houses, and where the graft shows itself in tabling the issue, also bipartisanly. It is interesting to note that the issue has *again* been ignored by the party with a 60 vote majority ...

Right. There's no money in "tort reform". It's not like anyone gets paid to lobby for tort reform....

(an aside: how stupid do you think everyone else is? Seriously)

All you've got gunning for "tort reform" is the insurance industry, big pharma, pretty much the entire Republican caucus, several billion dollars in lobbying fees, etc.

This is the best you can come up with as a known plant, comrade Tadowe?

Fuck. Off to Siberia with you!

One of the the ignorant (a Democrat, naturally) blats, "Right. There's no money in "tort reform". It's not like anyone gets paid to lobby for tort reform...."

This is healthcare reform, because according to the propaganda trying to brainwash the public, the cost of healthcare is too costly ... and the Democrats promise that allowing *everyone* to be taxed, the government can provide the healthcare previously a multi-level capitalist industry, and save money by doing so.

I'll use your aside to ask you:

"(an aside: how stupid do you think everyone else is? Seriously)"

I think you are stupid enough to believe that government can do anything at less expense. You can't name even one, now, but you apparently believe that this is an effort to reduce the cost of healthcare ...

I mean, taxes will be removed from paychecks for three (3) years before any "free" healthcare is available ... and you don't qualify, dupus!!! but you'll still be paying ...

... that stupid ...

This bill is a fricking joke.

The Dems want to "help" the uninsured - so they decide to tax them for NOT purchasing insurance?

This is a pig of a bill and it should be killed.

This is almost unprecedented.

The polling margin against vs. for is roughly 25 points. Yet, the Dems are pushing forward anyways. They will eventually pass this with a straight party-vote and the public will be pissed beyond belief. But they don't give a shit.

This bill, when implemented may very well end up being the straw that broke the camel's back.

The unmitigated gall of leftist elites who think they know what's best for everybody, despite all of the protests to the contrary, is almost too much to take.

You dildos take fascism to a new level.

The unmitigated gall of leftist elites who think they know what's best for everybody, despite all of the protests to the contrary, is almost too much to take.

We'll see the results this November as the pendulum starts it's inevitable (but sooner than expected) swing back to the right.

Slowly and painfully, much like a political kidney stone, in fact, the Health care reform bill finally breaks the GOP filibuster and passes in the Senate.

Huzzah!

Wot's good about it?

31 Million more insured folks?
Subsidises low income folks?
Projected savings to cut deficit by billions?
An end to the odious "pre-existing condition" clause?

K, wot sucks about it?

No single payer option?
No anti-trust enforcement?
Projected 178% rises in premiums?

Basically this bill is gonna prove to either be a massive boon or a bigass bane to the Democratic party's future political chances.

Like Russ "Finestkind" Feingold Spud hopes the Dems re-insert the single payer option back into the puppy but aint holding his breath on that.

Also the anti-trust thing seriously needs to be revisited.

Want to increase competition in the marketplace?

Increase the number of competitors.

It aint rocket science.

So, now we wait and see if this bill actually makes things better overall, perpetuates the current misery or makes things worse.

Be Well.

The bill didn't pass in the senate. It merely cleared the debate hurdle. And if/when it does pass in the Senate, it still needs to be reconciled with the House bill.

Maybe you should stick to Canadian politics instead of cheerleading for an American system you know nothing about.

To claim that an end to the pre-existing conditions clause is "Good" but that increased costs are "Bad" is to be a complete moron. One is causing the other. Do you not see that?

If Scott Brown can pull off the win in Massachusetts, this is going to get very interesting.

If you look at the state of Massachusetts plan which is similar, the cost of health insurance went up, the cost of health care went up, the number of people who have heath insurance went up, but the wait times also went up.

When the wait times go up, that mean less sick or expensive patients are getting to a doctor, because you are clogging the system with people who are seeing a doctor because they have a cold. This should result in lower health care spending, but not because they made the system more efficient.

So if you want to see what the results may look like just look at the state of Massachusetts.

I'm in favor of taxes and costs going up if it removes the ability of the insurance companies to deny people for pre-existing conditions. I want greedy lawyers like Joe to pay the bulk of it.

News Flash!!! Jacksass is in favor of higher taxes!!!!

News Flash!!! Jacksass is in favor of higher taxes!!!!

#318 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

Sure he is. But I doubt higher taxes will put much of a dent in his $10 buck an hour paycheck.

This little green gecko was told by the gov't that they must accept everyone into their insurance pool, including those with pre-existing conditions.

And so, the little gecko invited in the hundreds of people they wouldn't take.

Let's see. 100 people walk in. 90 have good driving records. 10 of your have so horrible a record that no one would take you because of your pre-existing conditions (driving records).

To insure all 100, let's consider the costs- especially the 10 who are real problems to the financial equation.

I expect premiums to go up to cover the 10 expensive ones. In fact, since they'll never be dropped, the cost increase won't either.

You're right, Petrous.

It would certainly be cheaper to just let old people die in the street from starvation or hypothermia.

Snoofy,

The guy on the radio told a caller his dad is very old, needs heart surgery, will cost $10k's.

So, he asked they guy, should the gov't just let his father die and not get life-saving surgery - the guy doesn't want his taxes to go up and pay for other people's medical needs?

So the caller asked whether we should take those $10k's and feed hundreds of starving people or should we pick his father over the masses?

I ask you Snoofy, what's more important - saving one life from dying or saving hundreds from starving? You can't pay for it all - so choose.

I ask you Snoofy, what's more important - saving one life from dying or saving hundreds from starving? You can't pay for it all - so choose.

I choose to keep all the money and everybody else dies.

***

If it can be fixed, and it's worth fixing, it should be done. As a rough measure, "worth fixing" means the patient is able to regain consciousness, leave the hospital, and resume some semblance of "normal life." Not worth fixing is when the patient just rots away in a hospital bed a while longer.

What would you do?

Cofactor IX* injectables for hemophiliacs cost about a million dollars a year per patient. Should they be eligible for health insurance? All it does is drive up your premiums...

*can't remember if that's the right cofactor but whatever.