If someone under his command does get pregnant then this 2 star will find a way to weasel out of his stand because of monumental unpopularity of this "order" with the the prosecutors and hard time they would have proving that it was willful and not a statistical failure of reasonable birth control.

One word....RIDICULOUS....!!!!

Is this general going to order that no one get injured or worse?? It would be wonderful if no one would but there are other reasons that leave a unit short outside of pregnancy.

He's going to court martial a soldier and put him/her in jail if their birth control doesn't work?

I think this is order is ridiculous.

One word....RIDICULOUS....!!!!

#2 | Posted by drsoul

Ya, you're right. Them pregnated ones realy can fight the enemy.

Perfectly reasonable policy in a war zone. Back in the day troops got article 15s for getting tattoos. Pretty much the same thing.
Reminds me of the notroversy over the reserves complaining they only signed up for the benefits not to go to war.
When you're in the military you give up your individuality, it's part of the deal.

Uh....Don't ask, Don't Tell needs some revising.

Don'cha think?

Y'Betcha!

Lets see how the heterosexualist morons on this site handle being discriminated against - sexually!

"Let's see how the heterosexualist morons handle being discrimated against...."

Yes. Better or worse that the homosexual morons? Only time will tell.

Has he banned Headaches?
Broken Bones?
Viral Infections?
He might as well ban Gunshot wounds-or Shrapnel wounds.

Pregnancy ban fails - general bans erections.

I'm not so sure this is a bad idea.

My ship was one of the first Combatants to have women aboard.

After 18 months of preparation and training to deploy to the Persian Gulf, we had numerous women end up pregnant and unable to deploy. This left numerous personnel gaps.

The kicker was that they bragged about planning the timing so as having never to deploy.

The kicker was that they bragged about planning the timing so as having never to deploy.

My daughter in law just found out she is pregnant. (yes, my second grandchild is in the oven!) She admits that one of the many considerations was that she didn't want to get recalled. She still has a year left on her inactive reserve obligation.

Cowards will always be shooting their toes off, or making some other excuse to avoid danger.

Indeed, pregnancy is, perennially, a good reason to disallow women into a combat arena; except as medical practioners; because the cowards will try to make themselves exempt from the duty others will have to face.

It seems the Democrat party is rife with these cowards, doesn't it?

My daughter in law just found out she is pregnant. (yes, my second grandchild is in the oven!)

So can he have his vasectomy now?

BTW, Goat, I'm sorry your daughter-in-law is one of the craven who by their display of cowardice will force someone else to face the danger they run from like bugs caught in the light ...

What wonderful news, Goat! I'm so happy for you and your family.

You're d-i-l shouldn't be too worried. I'm fairly sure being pregnant she'd likely be at the end of the list of those the military would consider recalling out of inactive reserve?

Okay, what would you like to have? Another little girl or a boy this time?

It seems the Democrat party is rife with these cowards, doesn't it?

That does not compute.DANGER DANGER Will Robinson

Goat, I'm sorry your daughter-in-law is one of the craven who by their display of cowardice will force someone else to face the danger they run from like bugs caught in the light ...

#14 | Posted by tadowe at 2009-12-20 03:00 AM

STFU

So can he have his vasectomy now?

If it's a boy he is. If it's another girl, they are going to try one more time, then a vasectomy regardless of gender.

So can he have his vasectomy now?

#13 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-12-20 02:59 AM

No. Goat probably wants at least two more grandkids after this next one. lol

oops, didn't see #18 until too late.

Myself,I had one boy,one girl,that was it for me.I was lucky.5 grandkids,I'm going to learn how to give vasectomies myself if this continues

BTW, Goat, I'm sorry your daughter-in-law is one of the craven who by their display of cowardice will force someone else to face the danger they run from like bugs caught in the light

As I said, it was one of many considerations. She's not so much afraid of going back active duty. But if she did, my son would be forced to quit his good paying job to take care of their baby. He would be very hard pressed to find another one in this economy and they really didn't want to lose the house they just bought and end up on the street.

Chris becomes hysterical like some emotional woman, "STFU"

What language for a healthcare provider, and one who otherwise espouses refined and reasonable discussion!?!

Are you actually just another hypocrite who dictates to others what they refuse to abide by themself ...?

Say ... aren't you one of the Democrats who defammed Republicans for conducting an 'evil' war ... and who now supports 'evil' war conducted by your hypocritical party?

Okay, what would you like to have? Another little girl or a boy this time?

I don't care, but honestly, I can't imagine anything more precious than little Melissa.

I have to brag how smart she is. She is only 19 mos old, but already her favorite thing is books. She doesn't like stuffed animals. She doesn't like dolls or pull toys. At her age, her vocabulary is very limited of course, but it is interesting the words she knows.

Last month when I was there, she would come up to me with a book and say, "Book". I take the book. Then she spreads her little arms and says, "Up" wanting to be picked up and placed on my lap. Then when she's settled she says, "read" and starts pawing at the pages in the book. (she still can't make those little fingers turn them. LOL) My heart melted every time.

Yeah, Goat, there are always lots of good reasons to force someone else to take your place in war ... your daughter in law is just another one of those who find a way to refuse the chance of service, they volunteered for ...

Just too bad for whoever, who can't find a good excuse not to face danger, and lucky for your family. Meanwhile, Bush is still a semi-traitor for not going to Vietnam, isn't he ...?

The Democrats, like your daughter in law, can have their cake and eat it too ...

No Taddy I don't think she is,She continually posts about fellow posters service to thier country not to mention her own families service to this country.Go to bed you old fuck

I have a 30 month old here,she reads the posts and said,Jesus Christ Grandpa Betelg and Goatman agreed for a moment there.

Then we both shit our pants

Yeah, Goat, there are always lots of good reasons to force someone else to take your place in war ...

She would have been sent off to war? I'll tell her. I don't think she knew that part. Her MOS isn't a combat one.

Bruce misdirects, "... I don't think she is,She continually posts about fellow posters service to thier country not to mention her own families service to this country.Go to bed you old fuck."

Wow! You and Chris are sure into the profanity, aren't you!?!

Chris supported this sites (yellow dogs, remember) effort to defame Bush for the war in Iraq ... go try and fool someone else. Chris' support of service members does not excuse her anti-war political efforts or the lack of effort to continue to defame the war effort, now that Democrats are conducting that effort not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Where is the daily demand to get Osama, instead of merely increasing troop levels, which was reviled when increased by the Republican administration!?!

No, the whole Democrat party prove themselves to be world-class hypocrites in the face of their 8 year attack on the war, and accusing Republicans of being fascists, warmongers, our servicemen criminals ... and which party of yellow-dogs are now *patriots* for fighting the Taliban as they avoid finding Osama bin Laden ...

He's already dead ... right Democrats ...?

I don't care, but honestly, I can't imagine anything more precious than little Melissa.

Posted by goatman at 2009-12-20 03:13 AM

Appears Melissa has stolen a certain Goat's ♥.

Apparently she's inherited your IQ and love of books too. From what you wrote above, she sure seems to be a smart little thing. And knowing you, next year you'll probably be teaching her to use a computer. lol

Goat quibbles like a Democrat, "She would have been sent off to war? I'll tell her. I don't think she knew that part. Her MOS isn't a combat one."

"Deploy", then. Does that make her any less craven?

#27 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-12-20 03:18 AM

FF

You're rolling out some good ones tonight, Bruceaz.

"Deploy", then. Does that make her any less craven?

You're right, tad. I'm going to demand my son divorce her or I'll disown 'em both.

You're rolling out some good ones tonight, Bruceaz.

Thanks,I'm here a few nights a week,Tip your waitress

Chris becomes hysterical like some emotional woman

It is "Christine" you know. Or hadn't you heard?

Yes, women can be more emotional now and then. We're hardwired that way.

And judging from a number of your posts, Tadowe, sounds like you're the same way too. LOL

I bought Melissa some books for xmas and I let her open a package of three Dr Seuss books while I was there. Of course she doesn't have the gift opening thing down yet, so I slowly pulled at the paper hoping she would understand what was going on. She never did seeem to until I pulled off enough that she saw the Dr. Seuss logo, the little Cat in the Hat. Then her little bright blue eyes lit up and she chanted, "Book! Book! Book!" and tore the rest of the paper off herself. Then she handed me one of them and did the "Book. Up. Read." thing.

Life doesn't get any better than that. Seriously.

Life doesn't get any better than that. Seriously.

No, in all honesty, it probably doesn't.

Goat gets spitefully sarcastic, "You're right, tad. I'm going to demand my son divorce her or I'll disown 'em both."

Your hyperbole is humorous and displays your justifiable angst. I would support my family, too, although I wouldn't attempt to mock the justified opinion of some casual detractor over the shame inherent in forsaking an oath to your country and service one volunteered for.

As mentioned, although they are proud of Democrats who found excuses for avoiding "deployment" during Vietnam ... they still revile any Republican who managed to so avoid that service in the same ways practiced by the Democrats who did so ...

How can you expect that your revelation about avoiding deployment by your in-law wouldn't draw realistic commentary about such efforts to discredit their oaths of service?

I guess you just had to seek some stroking from those who support such cavalier disregard for oath to country, meanwhile continuing to acquire the benefits of that non-service ...? Some Democrat or another, perhaps ...?

Tadowe,Goat served

Bruce craps pants supporting Goat, "... Goat served"

I know, and that's why I know he isn't proud of this contretemps about honor over materialism and personal safety ...

...although I wouldn't attempt to mock the justified opinion of some casual detractor ..

Sure you wouldn't. LOL

How can you expect that your revelation about avoiding deployment by your in-law wouldn't draw realistic commentary about such efforts to discredit their oaths of service?

???

I had no such expectation.

I know, and that's why I know he isn't proud of this contretemps about honor over materialism and personal safety

Actually I am quite proud of my family. As ER I said in her eponymous movie: "Do not presume to know the secrets of my heart"

Bruce craps pants supporting Goat, "... Goat served"

Well,his daughter in law is providing the next generation of troops.

Goat gets no passes from me,but you are out of line tonight,sir

Apparently she's inherited your IQ

No, I feel her IQ is much higher than mine. Both her parents are quite bright. I take no credit.

Goat says, "I had no such expectation."

I had the expectation that you would avoid responding to my patriotic commentary; as I've advised you to do any number of times.

Unfortunately, I'll have to get used to disappointment, because you can't seem to ever get objective enough to do so.

I'm sure your daughter's considerations vis a vis 'deployment' was a very minor one, and since she is apparently on inactive reserve status, anyway. However, admitting that as being one of the motives for becoming pregnant, in the first place, is your fault, and for what reason did you confess to her action, an apparently shameful effort?

... To find agreement with leftist Democrats who are here to mock the effort to stop such efforts by the military to end this effort to avoid service, to forsake their oath to nation and their Democrat commander in chief, by getting pregnant???

Why make a proud statement about such a shameful subject: avoiding 'deployment' by getting pregnant, anyway, Goat?

my patriotic commentary;

I don't want to talk politics,Let's talk about jesus

I'll have to get used to disappointment..

I am just a non-descript low level blogger, tad. No need to allow me to bring disappointment into your life.

... and for what reason did you confess to her action, an apparently shameful effort?

It was an anecdotal followup to commonsense's post. Were you not following the thread prior to my retort?

Why make a proud statement about such a shameful subject: avoiding 'deployment' by getting pregnant, anyway, Goat?

???

I never considered it a 'proud' statment, but for some reason you have chosen to declare it as such. As I said earlier: Do not presume to know the secrets of my heart. To do otherwise puts you in the ballpark with boyd and alex who arrogantly and shamelessly play that game.

Bruce maunders and states the obvious, "Well,his daughter in law is providing the next generation of troops."

Or, the next generation whose parents provide them with an object lesson in breaking your oath to country and service.

"Goat gets no passes from me,but you are out of line tonight,sir."

You are a leftist ideologue who will *NEVER* admit that I might be-in-line, even when I am. So, your effort to belittle my opinion, while avoiding discussing the facts of the matter can be dismissed as the partisan drivel it happens to be.

You idiots, right or left, can't get it through your collective head that I'm not dependent on your partisan opinion of me, personally, but will only respond reasonably to reasonable argument. Otherwise, I'll respond in the same vein and tone which was used to revile and dehumanize Republicans, during the 8 years Bush was president and commander-in-chief ... you hypocrites deserve no less ...

As for the conservatives who attempt to belittle me, personally, and not address the issue(s) raised ... what a bunch of morons you make of yourselves ... just like the yapping yellow-dogs and making excuses to save your face. What's with that? Are you as stupid as these yellow-dogs happen to be, too???

I support upholding your oath to defend our nation and support our commander in chief ... apparently their are a collective of those from both the right and left who disagree and want the 'right' to find excuses to forsake an oath of service ...

... what a shameful bunch of sociopathic cowards you make of yourselves to do so ...

Let's talk about Tiger. Heard his wife has contacted Lorena Bobbitt for advice.

So, if I understand Tadowe's post correctly, Goatman's daughter acted dishonorably to avoid deployment. Wow. I must say though, if she really did get pregnant as a means of avoiding deployment I actually agree with Tadowe for maybe the first time in my life.

Goat can't stop, "I never considered it a 'proud' statment, but for some reason you have chosen to declare it as such."

More quibbling! How about the term, "casual statement"? Is that better for your face, Goat?

"As I said earlier: Do not presume to know the secrets of my heart."

I'll presume what is apparent in forming any such presumption, Goat. You can't dictate what I will or will not reason from what you have to say.

"To do otherwise puts you in the ballpark with boyd and alex who arrogantly and shamelessly play that game."

Your in-law considered it a reason to get pregnant: avoiding deployment, and by your admission. I presume such efforts to be cowardly, and a conscious effort to forsake their oath of service.

Why don't you disagree with my presumption, instead of trying to repress my right to draw conclusions from what is presented to public view, and by using such petty, dictatorial efforts to save your face?

Really, Goat, you're way out of your league, and I advise you to avoid this effort to stop me from stating my opinion(s).

I must say though, if she really did get pregnant as a means of avoiding deployment

LOL This is great watching m'8's hypocrisy. If I remember correctly, he was one of the ones in agreement with the Lt who suddenly went CO and refused to go to Iraq. But then, that Lt didn't have a family member on the DR that m'8 despised. Your hypocrisy is duly noted, m'8

But anyway, it was one of the dozen or so reasons. So you and tad are in good company. Just so you and tad can joyously continue your little spite fest, I probably would have done the same. I would put my family's welfare ahead of my country as well. To me, family is #1 and above any and all considerations.

Goat can't stop,

I'm sorry tad. I thought you wanted me to reply. I'll stop now.

Bruce can't stop mocking, "I don't want to talk politics,Let's talk about jesus"

I don't respond to your commentary much, Bruce, because it is invariably just more stupid partisanship from another brainwashed partisan parrot.

You are a one-liner genius, and always attacking those who disagree with your socialistic party's efforts to attack any issue they can hypocritically spin around and support when they are in-charge and responsible - war in the ME, for instance.

Then, even though you have put on a patriotic facade, it cracks when some cowards find a way to avoid their service to the very commander in chief you claim to support, and you attempt to defame the military for trying to protect the service and nation from such examples of successful cowardice, which undermines moral and forces others to stand in their place.

What a pack of two-faced hypocrites you make of yourselves! Along with you unconscious rightwingers and independents who support such efforts to undermine the nation and oath to defend and support the nation and our commander in chief!

However, you need a target to help you misdirect your justifiable shame, if you feel any? Go ahead and make me your target, like the leftist neo-commies do ... go ahead, you know you'll feel all better and can forget your shame by doing so ...

Goat proves my previous 'presumption', "I'm sorry tad. I thought you wanted me to reply. I'll stop now."

Sure, sure, Goat. I really appreciate being attacked personally and having a putative conservative do so to save face ...

You'll stop for yourself, Goat, and not for my benefit, as you lyingly infer ...

You'll avoid disagreeing with my 'presumptions' because you don't disagree with them, but will rather continue to make me the subject to 'obey' ... if you do continue ...

... or do you forbid me to presume any such opinion, Goat?

Tad v. Goat?

Kinda like Godzookie v. Mothra... only funnier.

I really appreciate being attacked personally ...

I never would have figured you to be so thin skinned that you would take any of my words directed at you tonight as a personal attack. I don't see a one that could remotely construed as such and you didn't say which ones you considered an attack, so we'll chalk it up to your paranoia.

Anyway, your posts have always cracked me up and I've always enjoyed them (no sarcasm) and I'm glad you are back posting again.

Now do me right and tell me off! LOL

What is going on is that women are using pregnancy to get out of harms way. Anyone who has served in the armed forces has seen this and is and has been a problem with women in the service. They've done it to get out of shipboard duty, I'm certain they would do it to get out of a shitty duty station.

The Commander has been faced with personnel shortages going in, add the "sudden" pregnancies and your combat posture become acute.

Stupid order but I understand.

BTW, Goat, I'm sorry your daughter-in-law is one of the craven who by their display of cowardice will force someone else to face the danger they run from like bugs caught in the light ...

#14 | Posted by tadowe at 2009-12-20 03:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Retard, Goat stated she was on INACTIVE reserve.

How is she causing a problem?

Such Bans have been in place for YEARS, although they did not involve court-martails.

I've seen the ban at work, years ago.

Two idiots HAD to fuck around. These were people I knew. They got 1/10 of the crap they deserved.

The kicker was that they bragged about planning the timing so as having never to deploy.

Hey, it worked for Deferment Dick Cheney!

I thought you Republicans were fans of listening to generals! Would you be happier if pregnant, single (and they are almost all single) women were kept in combat? Even if their being, perhaps, a tad slowed down by pregnancy put another service member in greater danger? Do they even make protective combat gear to accommodate pregnant women? Listen to our troops, Republicans. Troops are supporting this measure, calling the pregnancies "self-inflicted wounds," intended to avoid military service. To those who've served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, a desk job stateside awaiting delivery of a baby is not comparable to military service. And every one of those desk jobs taken by a pregnant soldier who didn't complete her tour is a job that's not available to a soldier (male or female) who deserves a sweet spot after those multiple tours.

The military is not like working for Walmart. Being deployable is part of the deal. And it is also devastating to spouses back home, who may be abstaining sexually until their spouses return, to have these "mystery" pregnancies in a unit.

I note the only reasonable responses on this issue are people who've actually served in the military. And they are, apparently, in the minority.

(FYI: this site has some pretty raunchy, lowbrow comments for a moderated site.)

Has he banned Headaches?
Broken Bones?
Viral Infections?
He might as well ban Gunshot wounds-or Shrapnel wounds.

#8 | Posted by frankf55

Step back and see how stupid that realy sounds.

This general order is very simple, no sex in the battle field! We are at war not making families on the battle field. The soldier's who are out protecting the US and dieing everyday are not back at the base camps having sex they are following their general orders and protecting you with their lives. Now getting pregant before one deploys is another story, that is a person who does not want to live up-to her obligation. She should not have joined the armed forces or she should have better planned on how and when to have a family. I served my country for over 20 years and had 3 children while serving. I deployed twice to the war zone and i have a problem with anyone who is having babies in the war zone just to get sent back or not to deploy in the first place. Shame on them and anyone who thinks that way. Now get up off your computer and go serve your country with your life!

You are absolutly right!

Another reason the great military "social experiment" is failing. Gays and women = decreased performance of the military unit = increased cost and increased casualties.

The military is a two purpose machine: kill people and blow things up. Anything which interferes with the most efficient and productive way of completing these two purposes is counterproductive.

The political/social agenda is not logical. It costs more to have a bi-gender military. In general, there are very, very, very few woman who offer any advantages over a man in a combat environment. Why take on the added costs and problems associated with coeducational organization? So that we can prove women and men are equal?

You want to cut military costs libtards? Get rid of the women in combat units.

Fairfax6 is correct about getting pregnant in combat zones. I have heard a few stories myself about women doing just that so they can get sent back to the states. Good for unit morale for sure!

Sex is unauthorized when deployed in a combat zone in the first place, even between married couples. When a soldier get pregnant down range the mission suffers. So if this general is issuing this order for the length of deployment he is just implementing consequences for their actions.

I do believe that this would be harder to enforce if a service member became pregnant/ fathered a child prior to the deployment because he would have to prove they did so willingly for this to hold up under UCMJ.

Listen everybody...Most people take no responsibility or have any common sense...Since when does it make sense for pregnant women to be in combat or in a war zone???....Grow up goofballs ! You're not at home playing house and making babies...You're in the military fighting a war !!!...If you can't obstain from sex (super weak)...then accept the responsiblity of getting pregnant and not being able to fight in a war...stupid morons !!

This War General knows exactly what he is doing and it makes perfect sense !

The trouble with this world today is NO ONE wants to accept responsibility for their actions anymore...It's like anything goes...Like little spoiled brats that demand they get what they want...and have a right to behave badly and no one can say anything to them about it !

Women who get pregnant to get sent home do not deserve to be mothers...

Women who want to serve in the military should be treated no differently than men...What's the point then?....You want to do what men do?....Then act like a man...Stop being a sissy...War is no place for sissies...

I think the number of people giving other people crap on here is funny. If you think you're so "American" and willing to die for this war then why are you not in the military and if so why are you not voluntering to go. Being american gives you the right to have your own opinion and chose what you want to do. Congrats on the baby and you know that is a great reason not to want to go. People need to grow up and stop thinking that just because someone like me would rather die then work for the federal gov. means Im not proud to be American. I love America but my choice is not to die over a country that will never be what as "Americans" we think they should.

I believe its a good idea .Are we all animals? That we can't go with out having sex all the time . If you are married thats one thing but having with in irac with one person your not married to or even 100 people your not married to well I'm sorry my tax money dose not pay for sex parties in irac you have a job and you get paid for that job ,Not to go and scew as many people as u can.And I support the military on all accounts but not for sinning against god and belive it or not having sex and having a baby and not being married is a sin.

And I support the military on all accounts but not for sinning against god and belive it or not having sex and having a baby and not being married is a sin.

Posted by mjk at 2009-12-22 12:41 AM

Perhaps the best way to influence those you ask to kill and die for you is to join them, and offer a bible and your thoughts...

I'm sure there's a recruitment center near you, and you can certainly take your bible with you.

having sex and having a baby and not being married is a sin

And why, again, should anyone care what pisses off the boogey-monster you see in the clouds...

U.S.D.A. meat baby! Take the depo shot and you want get preg. for 5 years. You wanted the G.I. bill, life time medical, FHA home loan, ect.... Now earn it. You wanted equal rights, and now you've got 'em. LIVE WITH THEM! Now that the $hit has hit the fan you want out? Then pay us tax payers the money back that it cost to train your A$$!

I am an Independent. I have been Active Duty Navy for 19 years. In that time I have seen many Salors get out of a deployment by deliberatly injuring themselves. This is called a self-inflected medical condition and they are prosicuted under the UCMJ. This is defined as a medical condition that could otherwise be avoided. The way I see it and aparently so does this General is that there is no difference between the above stated and pregnacy. We are an ALL-VOLUNTEER force nobody is forced into service. We are ALL here to do a job so keep your pants up and/or knees together and do your damn job. If you choose not to do what you gave YOUR WORD that you would then you my friend are a WORTHLESS GUTLESS being and not worth the price of a bullet. You bring dishonor upon yourself, your family, and your country.

I believe its a good idea .Are we all animals? That we can't go with out having sex all the time . If you are married thats one thing but having with in irac with one person your not married to or even 100 people your not married to well I'm sorry my tax money dose not pay for sex parties in irac you have a job and you get paid for that job ,Not to go and scew as many people as u can.And I support the military on all accounts but not for sinning against god and belive it or not having sex and having a baby and not being married is a sin.
#73 | Posted by mjk at 2009-12-22 12:41 AM

First, yeah, we're animals - sexually reproducing animals, just like nearly all of the other beings.

You know, another dude was attempting to get me to describe "promiscuous" as wrong (and have me post it for him to ridicule) and you seem to really fit into his paradigm. Since I can't ask him, I'll ask you - how much sex is appropriate per person? Is there a limit, minimum or standard? Is the sin sex out of wedlock or just because it might result in a dishonorable discharge?

Having military people in country for months and even years isn't cruel enough, but denying them appropriate means to combat psychological issues as well as to deny them intimacy is absolutely embarrassing. There is also the added religious guilt and persecution that obviously comes from home and abroad - how much more damage should the recruits endure through outmoded concepts of sexuality? Do you imagine that most people never try anal or oral sex? Everyone does. That's not antithetical to a thinking creature, but quite a logical for one.

Consider the reasons for sex - the main one is that it relieves stress and what could be more stressful than warfare? It also strengthens bonds of friendship and even love. You are not considering what are the minimum psychological requirements for these beings whom we displace from their homes and make to fight these moronic resource wars and live like prisoners. Our soldiers are human, to ignore that is sin.

Also - the military kill people. They kill civilians who aren't armed and babies in their mothers wombs. Why do you support the military and not it's cessation from hostile involvement? Was our invasion of Iraq part of God's will?