Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, December 19, 2009

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) agreed Saturday to provide the 60th and deciding vote for sweeping health care legislation in the Senate. Nelson said he made his decision after winning fresh concessions to limit the availability of abortions in insurance sold in newly created exchanges, as well as tens of million in federal Medicaid funds for his home state. "I know this is hard for some of my colleagues to accept and I appreciate their right to disagree," he said, referring to the abortion issue. "But I would not have voted for this bill without these provisions."

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Looks like this thing moves forward now. Strap on the seat belt and helmet.

Nelson held out long enough to bring in some sizeable goodies for his state. There's an example for other legislators to follow.

It's the example Nelson followed. Works that way, both parties, all the time.

And, Oohrah, I'll add: Unfortunately.

I'm writing to my 2 dumb-fk Senators now . . .

those 2 ass-clowns have supported the health bill from the git-go without being bribed or promised anything

how f'king stupid can ya get . . . I hope it's not too late for us

"Nelson held out long enough to bring in some sizeable goodies for his state. There's an example for other legislators to follow."

Old Harry set the bar at $100 million to bribe Landreau. I am sure he got off cheap with Nelson. Seeing as there hasn't been any disasters in the last decade, on the fourth Tuesday of the seventh month, in an odd year...

Just curious if anyone knows what the Senators are approving? Something none have seen including the CBO? I think Oorah has it right about these 60 Senators voting yes for their goody bags.

For better or worse, Dems totally own this issue. The 2010 elections will be interesting.

And yes, CRISPEE, I wonder whether the senators know... really know... just what they're voting for. And about these abortion concessions Nelson supposedly won - will those cause others Dems to change their stance on the measure?

I doubt it on both counts.

MARKH....nice to see you being truthfull about it..

CRISPEE;...where have you been on this? didnt you hear the clip of landreiu BRAGGING That it wasnt 10 million but 300 million of OUR MONEY to pay for her vote......


and what HE SAID THIS MORNING about the abortion issue WAS A FUCKIN LIE as we will see in the coming months....fox business show reports that the abortion FIX that got his vote is little more than an ACCOUNTING gimmick and that tax money can still be used for killing innocent life in the womb...

10=100

Too bad he doesn't let his conscience be his guide...

It's a shame that Nelson was willing to hold health care reform hostage -- affecting the lives of millions of Americans -- without some goodies for Nebraska. But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business.

well I guess this ad was a little late..

besides...it wasnt about standing up for anything other than EXTORTING the dems into more money for him to lie about in his next election anyway...


www.newsmaxstore.com

So the big guy will get to sign it before Christmas.

ben nelson EXTORTS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS Of TAX dollars...according to washington post I believe it is...

related note...dems strike one more "STROKE" in the butt fucking of the american taxpayer


BRIGHT SIDE..


one more goddamn democrat BURIED like the dog shit they are next november......(or his next election)


Too bad he doesn't let his conscience be his guide...

#9 | Posted by nanc at 2009-12-19 11

pretty sad to think that we actually thought it was really about abortion when now we see that he is just like the rest of the liars and whores.

too bad

Nelson also inferred that the "public option" wasn't a part of the senate bill although who can believe anything these people say for public consumption---also, I want to regurgitate everytime they get in front of the cameras and before saying anything substantive they congratulate and stroke each other for what a great job they've done. A family member of mine who worked on this bill in Washington told me this morning that the original intent of the bill changed dramatically over time and now essentially has morphed into a bill that essentially is a TAX BILL>

Too bad he doesn't let his conscience be his guide...
#9 | Posted by nanc at 2009-12-19 11

pretty sad to think that we actually thought it was really about abortion when now we see that he is just like the rest of the liars and whores.
#14 | Posted by afkabl2


You guys should see what's going on in Rick's Cafe!

afk...hurts doesnt it? damn poor people dont need no insurance

HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!! About F**king time....
Remember that those who opposes this Health Care Bill were the same people that were opposed to SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AN CIVIL RIGHTS, being on the wrong side of History is a Fox-Republican, way of life......Where would your elderly Parents and Grandparents be today if those Fox-Republicans had their way, when they voted for Social Security, Medicare an Civil Rights???????? GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a scary/sad thing. In the end we will find out that Obama and the Dems were far worse for the US than Bush and the Repubs.

Once this is in place they will not be able to repeal it. This bill and all the things they add to it before we can get these clowns out of office will create incredible deficits.

In the end we will continue to run even larger deficits, raise taxes or limit coverage. Most likely a combination of all these.

What a sad day for our country.

"But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business."

I can understand the Senators holding out for their bribes, but shouldn't they at least know what they are being bribed to approve? None of the 100 Senators have seen what they are voting on. Where are the debates? Where are the reading of the amendments on the Senate floor? Where are the costs from the CBO??????

Too bad he doesn't let his conscience be his guide...

sure celisary

OOPS ...one thing you are ignorant of...WELL more than one..but this bill DOESNT HAVE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL......cbo says that 24 MILLION people still wont be covered...maybe you should actually read or watch something before you open you mouth with your verbal vomit.

I WILL AGREE with you on one thing though

GO OBAMA GO OBAMA GO OBAMA

straight to the dungheap of american presidential history right next to jimmah fuckin carter....

AH DOC post 21

so what the hell does jimmy cricket have to do with it....tell me tell me tell me

"when you wish upon a star
makes no difference who you are'

ah yes...one of the 5 most beautifull songs ever written...so what in the HELL would you know about that...LOL


"But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business.

#20 | Posted by crispee_oc

Hey, crispee critter, this isn't about healthcare reform--when are you going to get it right; nothing happens for 3-4 years except for increased taxes.

SAW

DONT BE too down about it...there are ways to repeal some of it since the dems have put some of the things off SO THEY wont have to face them in 2010 when THEY Know they are going to get thier ass kicked.......

here is OTHER sad news but PREDICATABLE under democrat TRYANNY..

consumer prices up .4&
new product prices UP 1.8%

and weeks unemployment figures UP 7,000..

November 2, 2010

and the BASTARDS wont be able to lie themsleves out of it this time...

ONE MORE democrat calling card

WALMART is being attacked by SEIU and other union THUGS and crooks

WHY??
because they want to hire people..

HEY ben nelson.....cant you figure out some way to EXTORT millions for nebraska walmarts.......

#25...

Tell me something I don't know. "Reform" is code to the dems for "pass anything" ASAP.

no insurance with a big fucking corporate payoff.

pigs at the trough.

democrats should be impeaching their congressmen.

Once this is in place they will not be able to repeal it.
#19 | Posted by sawdust

That's not the mantra some of our resident Twenty-Six Percenters chant. They believe a tide of nationwide resentment will propel the GOPiggies into control that leads to repealing heath care reform.

Probably when monkeys start flying.

CRISPEE...

keep this and refer to it the next time some whiney ass liberal here throws shit around about the republican fear machine...


blogs.abcnews.com


but what do you expect from a chicken shit lying pussey for a president..

good for you DOC

keep that head in the sand.....
tea party polls higher than either dems or repubs..in wall street journal poll


the end is near and you wont even see it coming...

"but what do you expect from a chicken shit lying pussey for a president."

This, from a "chicken shit lying pussey" about a president.

Tell me something I don't know. "Reform" is code to the dems for "pass anything" ASAP.

#28 | Posted by crispee_oc

I'll agree with that---they'll try to put lipstick on a pig and call it success-- the interesting thing though is that many Americans are no longer naive and passive-- they're finally starting to educate themselves and are starting to see through the lies and deception that have been going on for years-- hopefully, it'll make a difference in the kind of people and character that land in political offices in the future.

"AFKABL2".......Well the Asshole come out swinging about something he knows nothing about. This is how legislation is written, YOU MUST GET SOMETHING TO BUILD ON, clearly this isn't over an every American will not be covered, but you must start somewhere!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the beginning of the process not the end, small steps are necessary to reach your ultimate goal.....

NIXON......Fucking Criminal
REAGAN.....Fucking Racist
BUSH #1....Fucking Clown
BUSH #2....Fucking War Criminal

That Asshole is where the Presidential heap of History will fall not on the two living Presidents that have be awarded the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAQHAHAHAQHAQHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHA, GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA an fuck these Fox-Republicans!!!!!!!

AH BUT NOT TO WORRY

the goddamn democrat liars and whores have an answer to this problem and DOC..you just might be correct since the last election showed us just how many so called intelligent people are mere dupes of the radical leftists running the DNC.


tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com

I dont think all of those young people who are going to be FORCED TO BUY insurance or pay the penalty will be quite as gullible next time out..

keep that head in the sand.....
#32 | Posted by
afkabl2

Aye, aye, cap'n!

the end is near and you wont even see it coming...
#32 | Posted by afkabl2


Not true. I'll be able to hear you bleating.

celisary

I seemed to know that this bill DOESNT COVER eVERYone like you spit up all over yourslef about..

and that peace prize that carter won....didnt yessir IMAFAT win it for the same reason..how is that deal working out for the palestinians???

the egypt/israel deal, of course worked out...but please..........get a grip man!!!!!!

#29 | Posted by Shawn

For once I agree with you. You have to look at who will benefit from this. The poor and the broke might see some improvement in a few years. But the people who actually pay the bills, the middle class and the small business owners are going to get screwed as usual. Nothing changes.

actually you might be able to hear me screaming as we all get another butt fucking from dems...

but you know what???

If I get pussy tonight, this will just seem like a bad dream.............
hey I know its crude, but lets be real here...lol


Nelson may be a whore, but one thing you have to admit is, he ain't a cheap whore.

Let's see them move this piecemeal Bill forward now, and get it voted on and signed.

Then we can look forward to making sure the Exchange regulator has teeth, and the premium increases trend down instead of burning up 17 percent of our GDP.

Hubert Humphrey was famous for saying that you should always take a half a loaf, if that's all you can get.... and then butter it later on.


-If I get pussy tonight

The skies will part, the earth will quake, and God will be heard to say, "Didn't see that coming!".


but what do you expect from a chicken shit lying pussey for a president..

#31 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-12-19 12:05 PM

Exactly what we are seeing when people vote ambition over talent.

and HERE is what YOUR fuckin president is good at...

www.thefoxnation.com


WELL besides being buddies with people like bill ayers who told russian tv this week that america has not done ANYTHING good for the world in the past 60 years........

and for LYING His ass off and people like celisary falling for it
"I will go line by line making sure we are spending money wisely"
barak obama during campaign...

Ok, this clears the Senate and then off to a conference committee, correct? To what extent can the members of that committee tweak the final bill into something with a bit more reform?

ONE thing else REGARDLESS of the bullshit from dems ALREADY starting as per post 36 link....

DEMS WILL OWN this trash.......as george will said in his last column...the gop will be able to state correctly..."EACH incumbant is responsible for EVERYTHING in this law."

ONE THING is for certain

next fall is going to BE SOME FUN HERE ON THE Old retort........if the republic last that long anyway...

"Exactly what we are seeing when people vote ambition over talent."

But let me guess...you voted for Dubya?

#48...

But let me guess... You voted for Obama?

"But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business."
#10 | Posted by rcade

Yes, enjoy paying your share of Nebraska's medicare bills. I am sure they will enjoy you paying it for them.

WHY is this a surprise...look at the NOTED democrat ..greyson from florida..
reports are that he has called for the ARREST of a gop activist named langely in florida

WHY YOU ASK??

well I'll tell you.
she CRITIZES him on her website....

welcome to OBAMAS AMERIKA..

where we will pay the majority of ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS PER year for a world wide scam and SHAKEDOWN of the american taxpayer on TOP of this one

Looks like the good guys win again. The big O is the most clutch hitter in all of politics.

The moment Ted Kennedy would not want to lose

By Victoria Reggie Kennedy
Sunday, December 20, 2009

My late husband, Ted Kennedy, was passionate about health-care reform. It was the cause of his life. He believed that health care for all our citizens was a fundamental right, not a privilege, and that this year the stars -- and competing interests -- were finally aligned to allow our nation to move forward with fundamental reform. He believed that health-care reform was essential to the financial stability of our nation's working families and of our economy as a whole.

This Story
The moment he would not want to lose
A Be-Like-Ted Election
Still, Ted knew that accomplishing reform would be difficult. If it were easy, he told me, it would have been done a long time ago. He predicted that as the Senate got closer to a vote, compromises would be necessary, coalitions would falter and many ardent supporters of reform would want to walk away. He hoped that they wouldn't do so. He knew from experience, he told me, that this kind of opportunity to enact health-care reform wouldn't arise again for a generation.

In the early 1970s, Ted worked with the Nixon administration to find consensus on health-care reform. Those efforts broke down in part because the compromise wasn't ideologically pure enough for some constituency groups. More than 20 years passed before there was another real opportunity for reform, years during which human suffering only increased. Even with the committed leadership of then-President Bill Clinton and his wife, reform was thwarted in the 1990s. As Ted wrote in his memoir, he was deeply disappointed that the Clinton health-care bill did not come to a vote in the full Senate. He believed that senators should have gone on the record, up or down.

Ted often said that we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. He also said that it was better to get half a loaf than no loaf at all, especially with so many lives at stake. That's why, even as he never stopped fighting for comprehensive health-care reform, he also championed incremental but effective reforms such as a Patients' Bill of Rights, the Children's Health Insurance Program and COBRA continuation of health coverage.

The bill before the Senate, while imperfect, would achieve many of the goals Ted fought for during the 40 years he championed access to quality, affordable health care for all Americans. If this bill passes:

-- Insurance protections like the ones Ted fought for his entire life would become law.

-- Thirty million Americans who do not have coverage would finally be able to afford it. Ninety-four percent of Americans would be insured. Americans would finally be able to live without fear that a single illness could send them into financial ruin.


-- Insurance companies would no longer be able to deny people the coverage they need because of a preexisting illness or condition. They would not be able to drop coverage when people get sick. And there would be a limit on how much they can force Americans to pay out of their own pockets when they do get sick.

-- Small-business owners would no longer have to fear being forced to lay off workers or shut their doors because of exorbitant insurance rates. Medicare would be strengthened for the millions of seniors who count on it.

-- And by eliminating waste and inefficiency in our health-care system, this bill would bring down the deficit over time.

con't

If I get pussy tonight


The skies will part, the earth will quake, and God will be heard to say, "Didn't see that coming!".

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2009

COME ON corkmeister,.

you know good and well that no matter how far apart we may be politically that in this area we are brothers.......you know good and well that you are 'rooting' for my success in achieving my goal.
just admit it and I will give you every SWeaTY detail later.......

HASTA LAREDO ....


con't

Health care would finally be a right, and not a privilege, for the citizens of this country. While my husband believed in a robust public option as an effective way to lower costs and increase competition, he also believed in not losing sight of the forest for the trees. As long as he wasn't compromising his principles or values, he looked for a way forward.

As President Obama noted to Congress this fall, for Ted, health-care reform was not a matter of ideology or politics. It was not about left or right, Democrat or Republican. It was a passion born from the experience of his own life, the experience of our family and the experiences of the millions of Americans across this country who considered him their senator, too.

The bill before Congress will finally deliver on the urgent needs of all Americans. It would make their lives better and do so much good for this country. That, in the end, must be the test of reform. That was always the test for Ted Kennedy. He's not here to urge us not to let this chance slip through our fingers. So I humbly ask his colleagues to finish the work of his life, the work of generations, to allow the vote to go forward and to pass health-care reform now. As Ted always said, when it's finally done, the people will wonder what took so long.

www.washingtonpost.com


THANK YOU CORKY

for dragging out the corpse of the MURDERING, drunkard, lying democrat icon.......(((((mary jo))))))) is very proud of you...

#56 | Posted by afkabl2 | Flag: Spittle Cup's Slipping


Looks like the good guys win again. The big O is the most clutch hitter in all of politics.

#52 | Posted by jackass

Master let you out of the broom closet on Saturdays?


Fuck off, BL2.

I put with your inane babbling, but you can take your ignorance and hatred and shove it up your ass, bitch.


#53 & 55...

So you have no problem with the Senate pushing legislation through, without having a clue what they are approving or seeing the CBO numbers on the costs? Just as long as something is on Obama's desk by Dec. 24th, 2009?

That's a Democrat for you - READY TO BE BOUGHT COMMUNIST WANNABE!!!

That's a Democrat for you - READY TO BE BOUGHT COMMUNIST WANNABE!!!

Hell if I was offered millions I'd vote for anything.

"My late husband, Ted Kennedy, was passionate about health-care reform. It was the cause of his life. He believed that health care for all our citizens was a fundamental right, not a privilege, and that this year the stars..."

Unless of course a republican proposes Healthcare Reform. Then he goes back to being the lying, POS we had come to know....


'Bipartisan Cooperation on Health Care Is Dead on Arrival'

Worst of all was the five-page memo distributed by Sen. Edward Kennedy to Democratic colleagues that ought to embarrass a man who considers himself the Senate's leading health-care expert -- a compendium of half-truths, unsupported assumptions and outright lies. Kennedy reverted to the hackneyed rhetoric of class warfare, asserting that the president's proposals will do nothing for working families, give new tax breaks to the rich, increase the number of uninsured and encourage everyone to buy less insurance coverage than they should have.

In fact, all of these are almost precisely the opposite of the truth.

The president's health plan would, in fact, put a cap on a $200 billion-a-year tax break that now goes disproportionately to those with the most generous and costly employer-provided health insurance plans. It would redirect a small portion of that break to those who have less generous coverage or those who have to buy their own insurance because their employer does not offer it. For a few million of the roughly 47 million Americans with no insurance, it may also make the difference between being able to afford basic insurance or not.

The fact that some of those who have these rich policies happen to be members of auto or postal unions doesn't change that the president's proposal would make the tax code more progressive, not less. They are the aristocrats of the working class who, like lawyers, investment bankers and journalists, earn more in tax-free benefits each year than uninsured janitors earn in taxable wages. And whatever modest tax increase they might face from the cap on tax-free health benefits, it is certainly less than the tax cuts they got from Bush that Democrats are so eager to rescind. www.washingtonpost.com

Don't everyone get too excited--this thing has a ways to go yet--I would start to scream and holler when the reconciliation process is over and the final bill is established---I have a feeling the public option won't be in it and the bill will be so watered down on benefits and other issues that to call it reform would be a stretch---you will be able to call it a tax bill-- and then Obama and his ultimate partisans can try to sell a tax bill as "hope and change."

Thanks for revealing your personal character fault, Andy ...

Matt soothes, " ...this thing has a ways to go yet ..."

This "Thing" is an effort to socialize America and evolve our economy into dependence on government (communism the utopian ideal of socialism).

Get it? Those voting for this are COMMUNISTS in ideology; socialists yearning to establish governmental control of the economy and starting with healthcare which represents up to a quarter of our entire GNP.

Those who remain Democrats, in the face of this massive effort to become a communist nation (even though their ostrich-like attentions deny the facts), they too are communists, by proxy.

This effort by Democrats is disgusting and despicable, and just as they have been acting-out for more than 10 years; being the icons of anti-patriotism, supporting terrorists while defaming our soldiers, supporting efforts to socialize America against the will of the majority. This is exactly the same sort of effort as the NAZI party conducted in taking control of the German government ... and if you don't know that, then you are truly ignorant and stupid communist zealots ... pretending to be something called "Progressives".

This is vile, dictatorial governmental action ... and it is more than just apparent, now!

-So you have no problem with the Senate pushing legislation through, without having a clue what they are approving

If you really had a problem other than armchair expertise, you could be listening to the amendments being read in the Senate right now.

#66

Cockroaches always come out when it rains, eh?

So you have no problem with the Senate pushing legislation through, without having a clue what they are approving or seeing the CBO numbers on the costs?

It really is amazing how much they are like Bush-era Republicans, huh?

It is going to be interesting to see what kind of an abortion they made out of the bill (thanks to the greed monger lobbyists), but anything is an improvement over the ass screwing we are all already getting.

At any rate, it's fun to watch the Aflak duck babble away like a monkey trying to get his fist out of the jar because he won't let go of the nut.

If he says it will bankrupt the nation, that's good enough for me to believe the exact opposite. One thing about Aflak and his parrots is they are consistently wrong about practically everything.

Kanrei, representing the neo-communists, says, "It really is amazing how much they are like Bush-era Republicans, huh?"

Your "independent" facade is cracking dramatically, Kanrei, for you to attempt a lie, like this one.

What form of communism did the Republicans push through congress against the majority will of the American people?

It is petty, ignorant ideologues like you yellow-dogs which encourage this move to communism ... trying to shift attention onto Republicans ...

What a stooge you reveal yourself to be!

"but anything is an improvement over the ass screwing we are all already getting."

LOL, as Obama said earlier this year, you aint seen nothin yet.... be patient... change is coming...

Cockroaches always come out when it rains, eh?


#67 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-19 12:56 PM

At least 60 came out when the "bribe" lights were turned on. It is laughable for anyone to support legislation that they have yet to read, or knowing what are the benefits or costs. Sounds rather Kennedy like.

Tadowe, the statement is more of an indictment of Dems than it is of Republicans in terms of relevance (Dems are currently in power while Bush Reps are well out of power!)

Yes, enjoy paying your share of Nebraska's medicare bills. I am sure they will enjoy you paying it for them.

They're probably paying for Florida's ridiculous beach-house welfare program. States foot the bill for each other all the time in our government.

This is exactly the same sort of effort as the NAZI party conducted in taking control of the German government ...

I was wondering when some turd brain would bring that up. Who let you out of the loony ward tadowe?

Can't you come up someone who was worse racist fascist then Hitler to compare Obama too?

If he says it will bankrupt the nation, that's good enough for me to believe the exact opposite. One thing about Aflak and his parrots is they are consistently wrong about practically everything.


#69 | Posted by RingMaster

That may be true but your side isn't getting what it wanted either so I wouldn't be too ebulleint about his situation since when this bill is finalized you'll probably be in the same boat as a screwee.

What form of communism did the Republicans push through congress against the majority will of the American people?

Let's start with the bailouts and the TARP money. That's government run business I would say.

afkabl2, you are a retard? yeah?

are you legally retarded? because i don't want my hard-earned tax dollars going to benefit you.

I'm old and won't have much dictation from the neo-communist healthcare, which Democrats promise will become government healthcare, as they continue to pass bill after bill dictating that as reality ...

However, all of you dope smokers will have to quit, you know. Marijuana is illegal and won't be allowed. Neither will you be able to take any 'illegal' drug ... or even any substance they can detect in testing your blood, urine, hair and feces which they will demand you submit to that they say to stop taking; e.g., over the counter vitamins, cold medicines, remedies, etc.

I suspect, because of increasing costs and lower revenues (due to not having approx. 1/4 of GNP to tax)they will cut services and increase taxes. You know that will happen, even Democrat ostriches with their collective head in the sand ...

It will come to the point that you won't be allowed to eat unhealthy food - with government saying what is and what is not "unhealthy".

For a little security, you anti-patriotic, antip-American fools and stooges will give-up liberty and freedom ... you scum traitors to the American way of life ...

1st. its not "Health insurance for all"...as it stands (and it could have changed behind the close doors.) It is 4 years of taxes and additional regulation, eventually covering an additional 11 M...and forcing everyone else to have insurance as well as paying 4K per year for those that do not.

2nd. This is the end of America - the land of opportunity. There will be no more opportunity as everyone get what everyone else has..on the backs of those who work. This will result in nobody actully putting out effort and the demise of the US as a global power....but that is what you guys wanted in the first place isn't it?

You thought you knew what you were voting for when you put Obama in power....and you got something completely different.

If conservatives take over in 2010 and unravel this without bringing the DEMS to the table I do not want to see whining about Bipartisenship.....

Sadly some of you rejoice in this ..because you are not smart enough to see what will happen down the road.

...when this bill is finalized you'll probably be in the same boat as a screwee.

We already are. So what's new?

Well, Andy, maybe you should generalize instead of making yourself the example ...?

"forcing everyone else to have insurance as well as paying 4K per year for those that do not."

I call bullshit. Please link to proof of a forcible $4K increase per year.


What form of communism did the Republicans push through congress against the majority will of the American people?


Let's start with the bailouts and the TARP money. That's government run business I would say.

#77 | Posted by RingMaster

Six Republicans voted to release the TARP money: Alexander (TN), Gregg (NH), Kyl (AZ), Lugar (IN), Snowe (ME), Voinovich (OH).

Ringmaster says, "Let's start with the bailouts and the TARP money. That's government run business I would say."

LOL! Here is one of the ignorant, now! Bush signed it, so he is responsible, even though Democrats rammed it through ...

With idiots abounding on the left like this, it is no wonder they are duped into supporting this effort at communism, and because Democrats, their Party, are doing it!!!

One of the ostrichs, with his yellow-dog head firmly planted in the offal, and avoiding reality ...

Dan says, "I call bullshit."

Democrats are forcing a bill which will establish the foundation for governmental healthcare, and you know it!!!

So being a faithful party yellow-dog, you belittle the effort to remove 1/5 of our economy from being taxable as some sort of lie? That once the foundation is established, you neo-communists won't continue to effect control of America's healthcare industry ...?

This one effort, Dan, will show you Democrat dupes and stooges up for the dictatorial socialists you actually happen to be!

Watch ...

Ultimately, there isn't much reform here-- even though we don't have a reconciled bill it'll probably be increased taxes upfront (which will be wasted away and not go to healthcare); and down the road an increase in the numbers covered (not that many), a cut in medicare, and a considerable increase in medicaid pushed back on states already reeling under budget deficits. There probably won't be a public option.

Oh, off subject, for those global warming alarmists, Alaska is having a record snowfall for this time of the year (5 ft. 8 inches); southern France is having snow (highly unusual) and Copenhagen is getting hit with cold and snow (how ironic) for those global warming alarmists.

A NEW DEFINITION FOR "WHORE"!

NIXON......Fucking Criminal
REAGAN.....Fucking Racist
BUSH #1....Fucking Clown
BUSH #2....Fucking War Criminal

------------

NIXON......Fucking War Criminal
CARTER.....Fucking War Criminal
REAGAN.....Fucking War Criminal
BUSH #1....Fucking War Criminal
CLINTON....Fucking War Criminal
BUSH #2....Fucking War Criminal
OBAMA......Fucking War Criminal

Fixed for accuracy.

Just remember...

Any government run insurance program that competes with private insurance providers will need to operate within the same rules and restrictions as their private competition or it will most certainly be struck down in the SCOTUS as unequal competition.

This can go one of two ways.
Either the Gummit run program will need to limit it's self to only collecting premiums from it's insured participants, like it's private competition and,
will need to be subjected to regulation by each State's Insurance Commissioner, like it's private competition or,

The private insurance companies must be permitted to operate under the same rules that are set for the Gummit provider.

Is this the kind of reform you were looking for?

Bear in mind, a third option would be to outlaw the private competition entirely to avoid an unequal competition ruling.
What are the odds the bought and paid for Congress is going to do such a thing to such a valuable lobbying/corruption group?

The answer is simple. Money talks and the Insurance companies have plenty of that. Even after this legislation is passed and signed, it will never see the light of day. SCOTUS will be kicking this thing around for many, many years to come.




It looks like our pal Celisary has captured the
feelings of most Americans - once again, his post
is (as my African-American husband would say) "spot on".

Free health care to the world is a great thing:

1. It frees up many trillions of dollars that won't go to healthcare.
2. It stops greedy hospitals, insurance companies & doctors in their places.
3. It reveals an overall sense of diversity & inclusion with which Obama operates.

My condolences (not) to the reich-wingers. LOL


Be Well.



"you belittle the effort to remove 1/5 of our economy from being taxable as some sort of lie? "

No...I called out a lie regarding a specific amount of a tax increase from a bill that isn't finalized.

Comprehension not your strong suit?

is (as my African-American husband would say) "spot on".

What does him being African-American have to do with anything?

#92...

How do you or anyone else know what is in or out of this legislation dems are trying to ram through by Christmas? Not one of the Senators has had a chance to go over the Bill. Reid won't even wait for the CBO to give their numbers. Which everyone knows will be a lower number than the actual total. Look at SCHIP...

Mitch McConnel should change the first letter of his name to a "B".

"No...I called out a lie regarding a specific amount of a tax increase from a bill that isn't finalized.'

How do you know if it is a lie or the truth when you admit nothing has been finalized? Maybe you should provide the link refuting the claim.

"...which will establish the foundation for governmental healthcare, and you know it!!!"

"Governmental healthcare" already covers 40% of the insured, and seemingly, you don't know it.

"So being a faithful party yellow-dog..."

Wipe the spittle off your chin. I'm a lifelong Independent who is on record as being against this plan.

" this legislation dems are trying to ram through "

Hilarious. Any more Republican talking points you'd care to share? If it was left to the right, the only healthcare reform would be less people with insurance paying more money for fewer services. Go jam it. Merry Christmas.

"How do you know if it is a lie or the truth when you admit nothing has been finalized?"

That's why I asked FOS to link to proof. It doesn't pass the smell test. Yet he made the initial claim.

"Maybe you should provide the link refuting the claim."

FOShaffer made the claim. The burden of proof is his.

Remember? That's how it works.

#92 | Posted by skip_wellington

Don't know why you're posting what you are---you or not many others even have a clue what's in the final bill except a lot of taxes up front

The don't get it, Danforth. The rule-of-thumb appears to be, "I can slap any old shit up here I want and it's up to you to disprove it." Bassackwards, as usual.



What does him being African-American have to do with anything?

#94 | Posted by andyuhenet at 2009-12-19 01:38 PM
| Reply | Flag: divisive, racist reich-wing pig

Be Well.


I'd wondered the same thing, SKIP. I thought I'd missed an earlier post or something referencing it.

"celisary...get a grip man!!!!!!

celisary is a man? Who'd have thought?

LIEBERMAN DEMANDS PONY IN EXCHANGE FOR HEALTH CARE VOTE
www.youtube.com


I'd wondered the same thing, SKIP. I thought I'd missed an earlier post or something referencing it.

#105 | Posted by OohRah at 2009-12-19 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:


Careful, you might get flagged and called a ass-monkey hating republican.

Danforth says, "Wipe the spittle off your chin. I'm a lifelong Independent who is on record as being against this plan."

I'd like to see one post where you ever supported the Republican side of the issue(s), Dan.

I've read your 'stuff' here for years, Dan, and can't remember even one where you supported the right, in your putative 'independence'.

You might be registered as an independent voter, but you are one of the neo-socialists who yearn for communism - as those in the Democrat party have done for years: yearn to establish communism as the American economy ... taking over medicine, insurance, the banks and by promising "free" (now being called 'affordable') medical care for all ...

Go fool someone else about your 'support' ...

"I'd like to see one post where you ever supported the Republican side of the issue(s)"

Feel free to peruse my post history. While you're at it, see if you can find a single post where I've ever praised Reid or Pelosi.

"I've read your 'stuff' here for years, Dan, and can't remember even one where you supported the right"

Wake me up when they stop fucking things up. The Bush years were the worst governance of my life. It's lockstepping koolaide drinkers like you who refuse to admit that.

Oohrah I was referencing this:

It looks like our pal Celisary has captured the
feelings of most Americans - once again, his post
is (as my African-American husband would say) "spot on".


Free health care to the world is a great thing:


1. It frees up many trillions of dollars that won't go to healthcare.
2. It stops greedy hospitals, insurance companies & doctors in their places.
3. It reveals an overall sense of diversity & inclusion with which Obama operates.


My condolences (not) to the reich-wingers. LOL


Be Well.

Doc chimes in, "The don't get it, Danforth. The rule-of-thumb appears to be, "I can slap any old shit up here I want and it's up to you to disprove it." Bassackwards, as usual."

#103 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-12-19 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag: Funny

Very humorous, Doc, but a good misdirection! I've been here for years, seeing Democrats post 'any old shit' on this site and making it up to 'Dubya' to disprove!

You creeps ... you'll lie to yourselves!

"Very humorous, Doc, but a good misdirection!"

Nonsense. He was stating fact. Back on topic, FoShaffer lied, was caught, and has yet to post a link proving otherwise.

Dan says, "... peruse ..."

How about this, Dan? Name one issue you supported Republicans for, during the Bush administration ...?

That shouldn't be too difficult, and avoids any need for you to produce even one reference to a post you made ... see?

Dan!

You avoid the FACT that I presented, and where the ideologues on this site have posted lie after lie after lie about the issues, without needing to prove them ...!

So, why can't you address that FACT? Because it is detrimental to your "Independent" status?

Go ahead, Dan, show your true face and acknowledge that what you demand of the right was NOT demanded of the left ...

Easy peasy for a true independent ... this site is full of Democrat lies ... right?

"Name one issue you supported Republicans for, during the Bush administration"

Going after the Taliban following 9/11.

"You avoid the FACT that I presented, and where the ideologues on this site have posted lie after lie after lie about the issues"

That's because the topic at hand is the FACT FoShaffer posted bullshit. Deflecting to others is just that, a deflection. Have leftwingers posted bullshit? Of course. So have you. That doesn't let FoShaffer off the hook. Where's his link to the forced $4K additional amount per year in the health bill?

ANDY,
I was agreeing with you. I didn't know why the individual's race had any bearing at all. Maybe it was that "spot on" phrase... but I thought people of various races used that phrase.

No big deal either way, though I was a bit surprised by the response you got. And that's why I thought maybe I'd missed something from a prior post someplace.


It's a shame that Nelson was willing to hold health care reform hostage -- affecting the lives of millions of Americans -- without some goodies for Nebraska. But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business.

#10 | Posted by rcade
-------------
Not so fast rcade! I saw somewhere that Moveon.org is asking politicians to kill the bill since they are pissed that it doesn't include abortion and public option. Again, we'll have to see how many won't support the bill without those 2 things included in it.

Lonnie

Danforth says, "Going after the Taliban ..."

That is an American issue, Dan, not Republican.

Really, as I've mentioned before, there is no use trying to discuss anything with ideologues like you, Dan. You have cement-for-brains and nothing can get through to your understanding; unless directed by your leftist brainwashing ...

You support Democrats in 95% of everything they promote, but act-out as some sort of snake-in-the-grass by pretending to some sort of real independence of ideology ... a natural born liar, evidently ...

... however, that seems inveterate with the left - either they lie or misdirect for their hope for a socialist paradise in communism ...

Those sociopaths can be bought-off for the right price ... no honor among politicians and those dupes and stooges who support them ...

"a good misdirection!"

Expecting someone to back up what they passed along as a statement of fact with some credible information supporting the assertion is "misdirection"?

Sorry, but I'll stick with the old dictum that people are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts.

The liberals that think the government can best run our health care system are either deadbeats that look to the government with their hand out all the time or are just morons! Many are both! This administration and left wing congress are going to bankrupt this country and they are too stupid to realize it. I doubt if any of them has even a basic understanding of economics. I just hope they are the first ones standing on the street with a cup in their hand begging for pennies when this all comes crashing down!! I have some business connections in Canada and those Canadian businessmen are just astounded by what is happening in our country because it is being destroyed by pea-brained liberals!

"That is an American issue, Dan, not Republican."

Then please list the "Republican" isssues, particularly the ones you agreed with: Invading Iraq? Tax cuts for the wealthiest? Inheriting true surplus budgets and leaving record deficits as far as the eye could see? Persecuting one subset of Americans for religious right votes? Deregulating lending institutions? Please list all the Republican accomplishments recently, and maybe it'll jar my memory.

Like I said, the last administration was the worst governance of my life. I used to vote for the party of Jack Danforth. They left me.

Dan goes on with excuses, "That's because the topic at hand is the FACT FoShaffer posted bullshit."

And, because you can use it to misdirect in favor of the bill, you try to discredit the comment as a 'lie.'

This effort by Democrats IS an effort to establish governmental control of the healthcare industry PERIOD.

You know this as a fact, but attack someone who is against this effort to communize America!!!

You are blatantly obvious, Dan, and I wonder at your efforts to deny you support for this Democratic issue!?!

By replying to me as your 'drooling idiot' to revile and make excuses to ...???

I suggest you not reply, Dan, and save some face ... son ...

... son ...
#124 | Posted by tadowe | Flag: Likes To Be Thought Of As "Dad"

whether irony or karma . . . .

if the bill eventually passes, Palin would oversee it's implimentation - -

Finally! This country has been waiting for a bloated, inefficient, ineffective health care industry payoff.. I mean "health care bill" for literally weeks! Now ram it on through! It's about time!


HEALTH CARE FOR ALL!!!!!!!! About F**king time....
Remember that those who opposes this Health Care Bill were the same people that were opposed to SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AN CIVIL RIGHTS, being on the wrong side of History is a Fox-Republican, way of life......Where would your elderly Parents and Grandparents be today if those Fox-Republicans had their way, when they voted for Social Security, Medicare an Civil Rights???????? GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA, GO OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#18 | Posted by celisary
--------------------------
Hey it's celisary the racist chiming in again showing his absolute ignorance of history yet again.

A much larger percentage of Dems were against civil rights than Republicans. The final vote in the house yielded 80% Republican to 61% of Democrats voted to pass the civil rights bill of 1964. In the Senate it was 82% Republicans and 69% Democrats voted to pass the bill. The senate version voted on in the house yielded 80% Republican and 63% Democrat. Of course liberal theology says that when Lyndon B. Johnson said we've lost the south that the racist fleed to the Republican party which is false. How can anyone with a little intelligence say that when Robert Byrd, former Grandmaster for the KKK, is still in the Democrat party. I agree with Ron White, you can't fix stupid!

Lonnie

"you try to discredit the comment as a 'lie.'"

Let's see how tethered you are to reality: is it a lie?

"This effort by Democrats IS an effort to establish governmental control of the healthcare industry PERIOD."

That's ludicrous. When Republicans ran things for the prior 8 years, the "government" was insuring the same soldiers, VA members, Medicare recipients, Medicaid recipients, government employees, and Bureau of Indian Affairs folks. That's about 40% of the insured, and that number is headed up regardless, due to the baby boomer retirement years. We've known that for decades. And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?

"A much larger percentage of Dems were against civil rights than Republicans."

And those "Dems" left the Democratic party and now form what's left of the Republican's Southern Base.

Doc says, "Sorry, but I'll stick with the old dictum that people are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts."

Mine is that your party is filled to the brim with communist wannabes, and are using this effort to continue turning healthcare into the business of government. This effort, if it continues, will remove 1/4 of the American economy from the taxation roles, and force the government to tax individuals to make up the difference.

Government insurance will become MANDATORY, with jail and, or fines used as distraint against protest ...

How about discussing that, Doc, instead of misdirecting about inconsequentials that you know will be more than stated IF the government controls healthcare ...???

No, you literally cannot, not even to begin to admit that this is a move towards socializing our American capitalist system ...

That's the ISSUE now - whether you are a communist wannabe or still believe in the American systems, economy and constitutional government ...

Government healthcare is ANTI-CONSTITUTIONAL

Debate that, Doc.

I could only read so many posts from lefties saying that this is just "how things get done" these days before I had to skip the rest. We all know that if this was a Republican, guys like Starvis would be calling Ben Nelson a greedy piece of shit.

So let's call it like it is. Ben Nelson is a greedy piece of shit who cares more about blackmailing America than voting yes or no on a bill. I don't care if this is "how legislation is written" or if both sides use this tactic. Anyone who does so is garbage, and right now that includes Ben Nelson.

Dan says, "And those "Dems" left the Democratic party and now form what's left of the Republican's Southern Base."

This "fact" is a lie, Dan, and you know it!

This issue has been debated, here, and with your commentary supporting the idea that Democrat racists became Republicans, and thereby changing the party who supported laws against discrimination and racism MAGICALLY BY YOUR CLAIM into the PARTY OF RACISM!

Meanwhile, the Democrats were shoveling black Americans into ghettos and making them dependent on government as a race ...

You aren't any kind of 'independent' except for votter registration - you are a died-in-the-wool yellow-dog-Democrat, whatever name you call yourself ...

"with your commentary supporting the idea that Democrat racists became Republicans"

The Dems who were against civil rights were largely the Southern States, which are now solidly Republican. While the Congressional voters themselves didn't switch parties, the region certainly did.

A much larger percentage of Dems were against civil rights than Republicans. The final vote in the house yielded 80% Republican to 61% of Democrats voted to pass the civil rights bill of 1964. In the Senate it was 82% Republicans and 69% Democrats voted to pass the bill. The senate version voted on in the house yielded 80% Republican and 63% Democrat.


A greater percentage of both northern and southern Dems voted for the civil rights bill compared to the GOP scum that used the passage of the bill to create the southern strategy.


>Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)
The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure

)

en.wikipedia.org

JOE,
In fairness to DOC, read his post #3.

Our local paper does a weekly reader survey. A couple months ago they asked whether healthcare reform would pass. I replied, "yes," and my rationale was what we saw happen here with Nelson and earlier with Landrieu.

Pols, or most of them, can be bought. The only question remains "at what cost?"

Dan says he is against this bill, and then supports it by trying to turn this into a Republican issue. Dan, in effect, claims, "Republicans did it ...", and leading the inference that it is just *OKAY* for the Democrats to make it an excuse to socialize the healthcare industry; including *ALL* industries supporting healthcare; e.g., insurance, homeopathic medicines, herbs, over-the-counter remedies, drugs, ad nauseam.

The Armed Forces are a governmental agency and due to their imminently life threatening occupation are provided with medical care supervised by the various services. You liars try and make that into thinking that *socialized medicine* is already de facto???

Yes, that's the kind of liars you snake-in-the-grass "independents" try and promote for the neo-communist movement ...

If you aren't one of those ... get off the case of those protesting this move to communism by attacking them, dufus!

Dan makes excuses for his partisan lie, "The Dems who were against civil rights were largely the Southern States, which are now solidly Republican. While the Congressional voters themselves didn't switch parties, the region certainly did."

BS! The consequent voting record of Republicans concerning racial issues DID NOT CHANGE!

The only "change" was partisan liars promoting the idea that Republicans were magically changed into the PARTY OF RACISM, and where just moments before, it was Democrats who held that dubious title.

Now, here you are, just another partisn liar who has already been shown that this claim is a lie - repeating it like some leftist parrot!

Well, Dan, that is exactly what you are - a partisan, prevaricating parrot for leftism...

"partisan liars promoting the idea that Republicans were magically changed into the PARTY OF RACISM"

You mean like Ken Mehlmann, who admitted they were the party of racism, particularly in the South?

www.usatoday.com

This is great news for America! What a Xmas gift! The Senate, the House of Reps and President Obama should all be very, very proud.

See, Dan?

As I pointed out, Republicans have not changed in their voting record by suddenly becoming the party who resists promoting freedom and liberty for all.

Instead, it has been the Democrats who continued the discrimination by claiming that "free" housing would help ... what? What it did was establish huge ghettos in all the major cities of the nation, where blacks were watched very carefully and institutionally. They were denied freedom from unwarranted searches as proof of that effort to discriminate against blacks and predominantly by Democrat administrations and efforts to continue the racial hegemony over the black population ... now the Hispanic one being inculcated into the neo-communist movement and by that de facto discrimination of them as a 'race'.

Next, we'll have seperate Hispanic, government ghettos in all the major cities, instead of independent and free association which is actually their right as Americans ...

Indians, blacks and anyone else who they can make dependent on a socialized government, working towards a communist utopia ... the 'evil' opium smoker was *never* as dangerous to society as are the new Democrats: the Progressive Neo-Communists ...

"Republicans have not changed in their voting record by suddenly becoming the party who resists promoting freedom and liberty for all."

You're right. It seems they've been the party who resists promoting freedom and liberty for all for a long time.

Why haven't you answered the questions in Post #129?

Well at least we've got something that can be developed and improved into something satisfactory to people rather than the healthcare insurance and pharmaceutical industries. That's what it still seems to be although I must admit I've lost track of what we are actually getting.

Now it all depends on how soon the Republicans can get back in power. If that happens soon they stand a good chance of killing it for their BFFs. The GOP is still a basket case but that won't necessarily keep them from gaining power again -- see 2004. It seems more likely though that they won't until they get their act together and there's no sign of that yet. Vive La Rush and FOX, teabaggers, birthers, Sarah et al.


This is great news for America! What a Xmas gift! The Senate, the House of Reps and President Obama should all be very, very proud.

#140 | Posted by moder8

I'm not very proud of you since you don't even know what the final bill is and what the heck you're talking about--you're happy that something's been passed and you don't know what it is.

I see all the chicken littles from the right are runnin' around screeching again...their latest terror tactics about death panels and forced abortions and shit didn't work.

If 2010 doesn't go the way they plan....we'd better put all the rtards on suicide watch.


Even the ones who now CLAIM to be "Independent"!

Furthermore, you're jumping in glee that we're all going to see increase in taxes the next 3-4 years with a probable change around the edges in this bill and no benefits for about 3-4 years---are you for real?

Even the ones who now CLAIM to be "Independent"!

#145 | Posted by frankf55

I'm independent and if the ultimate bill doesn't have a "public option" I'm satisfied--this so-called "reform" won't be much of anything except a massive increase in taxes on us all. By the way, the repubs will win seats back and more then imagined in 2010--- history shows the party out of power always does well in the off year elections--they'll probably do even better because of the "fear of God" put into the citizenry by what has transpired over the last year. So, Frank, you're whistling past the graveyard---enjoy your hubris (look it up) while you can.

Dan gets petulant, "... It seems they've been the party who resists promoting freedom and liberty for all for a long time."

Another stupid lie, Dan. You can't prove your claim, as you hypocritically defammed someone else for doing, but continue to make these idiotic partisan claims, and thereby denying your putative 'independent' status ... like the petty liar your statements *prove* yourself to be.

The pettish behavior continues, "Why haven't you answered the questions in Post #129?"

Is this the "question" you demand an answer for?

"And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?"

This senseless question is not understandable ... why don't you answer it, since you've now made it obvious it was a rhetorical question?

I'm getting embarrassed for you in this obvious idiocy you insist on presenting to the public, Mr Independent ...

Tadowe's funny.

"You can't prove your claim"

WTF are you talking about? I linked to where the head of the RNC admitted it.

"This senseless question is not understandable"

Of course it is, as is the one before it. Why won't you answer them?

Another very sad day for America... another totally huge step backwards... another move toward extreme government control... another step toward the loss of freedom in the USA... another cloaked and staunch rise in taxes... another destructive move for the economy... a future destruction of real health care...!!!

Hell if I was offered millions I'd vote for anything.

No Shit. If someone offered me millions, I'd do pretty much anything they asked.

Welcome back Tadowe!


"A much larger percentage of Dems were against civil rights than Republicans."


And those "Dems" left the Democratic party and now form what's left of the Republican's Southern Base.

#130 | Posted by Danforth
----------------------
Again this myth fails common sense. Why would Dems that was against the civil rights bill leave the Dem party and join the party that overwhelmingly passed the civil rights bill with the highest percentage?

You guys and your myths. Robert Byrd is still a Democrat and he was in the KKK leadership so any point you hope to make is null and void.

Lonnie

Master let you out of the broom closet on Saturdays?

#58 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at 2009-12-19 12:36 PM


I have off on weekends. I can lay around my apt on the couch on Saturdays.

another cloaked and staunch rise in taxes...

#151 | Posted by drsoul

That's the most solid thing you can say about the ultimate bill--I've been saying this for the past 6 months---whatever the final bill this bill is a tax bill masquerading as a healthcare bill and the dem partisans are putting their rose colored glasses on trying to talk themselves and anyone who'll listen that this piece of ultimate junk is going to be reform of any significance. It won't work because thinking people other then partisans are finally moving away from ignorance/apathy to hold both parties more accountable in the future.

Danforth tries to make himself stupid, "WTF are you talking about? I linked to where the head of the RNC admitted it."

Listen, Dan: you can't generalize about what one person says! Your "proof" is no such thing! Get real for once, Dan, if that is possible. What votes have Republicans made which makes them the party of racism, as you slavishly claim!?!

There are NONE! Republicans did NOT change into racists because some racist Democrats claimed to have changed parties!!!

You're making yourself into an obvious yellow-dog, Dan ...

I can't wait until some poor rednecks who voted repub get arrested for buying moonshine instead of insurance.

en.wikipedia.org

#135 | Posted by reinheitsgebot
-----------------
So you contend there were 2 republican and 2 democrat parties back then? There was only 1 of each.

Lonnie

No Shit. If someone offered me millions, I'd do pretty much anything they asked.

#152 | Posted by goatman

Having purviewed your posts I would hope you don't mean that---just another role model that would disappoint me (ala Tigger Woods).

This "Headline" seems to have disappeared from the Front Page, and failed to appear on the Backpage.

I wonder why?

Because it shows that Democrats can be bought off by lobbying them into it ...

The Democrat party dictates and purchases support ... like the socialists always do, ala WWII's example we fought to destroy ...

Now, self-named yellow-dog-democrats support, fascistically, the effort to make America into a socialist economic system ... disgusting ... and Rogers is smart to remove the appearance than Democrats are nothing more than sociopathic bribe takers who will vote for the highest bidder ...

Graft has been the historical shame of the Democratic party ...

Danforth had to take a break to get his underwear and socks 'restarched'...

Tadowe is funny.

"You guys and your myths."

You guys and your refusal to pick up a history book. Tell us: these "Dems" that were against civil rights: are they from what are now "red" states, or what are now "blue" states?

Here is a challenge for any yellow-dog who wants to answer: What does this "question" mean? Or, if you don't want to explain, maybe one of you leftists can answer it? Dan seems unwilling to answer this obvious rhetorical question he posed. Why?

Dan asks, "And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?"

Dan's sentence is apparently understandable to him ... care to explain anyone ... Dan ...?

"Listen, Dan: you can't generalize about what one person says!"

It's not "one person"; it was the head of the RNC admitting playing racial politics to the NAACP.

"Your "proof" is no such thing!"

Too funny: a Republican leader admits it, and that's not enough proof for Tadly. Wipe the spittle off your chin, old man.

Tadowe seems to be spamming his lies again. I wonder why Tadowe didn't just stay away. I guess he found a free aol cd once again.

"Dan seems unwilling to answer this obvious rhetorical question he posed. Why?"

Because it's not a rhetorical question, dipshit. Pick up a dictionary.

Do the folks with that nasty "gubmint" care complain more about their insurance situation, or do the folks in the "free market" complain more?

Jackass says, "Tadowe seems to be spamming his lies again. I wonder why Tadowe didn't just stay away. I guess he found a free aol cd once again."

I couldn't plan these responses so well!

Here is an example of how the left treats debate ... they don't like free speech, whatsoever, the obvious petty tyrants that they are!

Dan can't seem to stop! "Because it's not a rhetorical question, dipshit. Pick up a dictionary."

See? You limit your understanding, heuristally, and use the 'dictionary' as an excuse for your self-imposed display of ignorance.

Rhetorical questions are not meant to be answered because the answer is already assumed by the 'questioner'!

Are you really this stupid, Dan? If so, I apologize for arguing with your foolishness and further embarrassing you.

If your 'question' is not 'rhetorical', then what does it mean about 'government' and 'others'? Who are these 'others' and who is it that are 'government people'?

Go ahead, give it a try ... here it is as you've modified it:

"Do the folks with that nasty "gubmint" care complain more about their insurance situation, or do the folks in the "free market" complain more?"

Love how Tad bitches about govt insurance but uses SS for his insurance. What a hypocrite.

Damn TADOWE...Danny starches up those undies and socks and you knock it right out...!!!!

"Now, self-named yellow-dog-democrats support, fascistically, the effort to make America into a socialist economic system"

For someone who thinks they are so smart that sure is a stupid sentence. Perhaps if you put a few more "isms" into your points they would express your feelings of intellectual and moral superiority better, satisfy your need to look down your nose more completely. You must be fun at parties.

Jackass proves he is one, "Love how Tad bitches about govt insurance but uses SS for his insurance. What a hypocrite."

I'm not on SS, haven't signed up for Medicare and don't use VA facilities, even though eligible for that by my service to the nation.

The institution of Social Security is an effort to support those who are no longer able to work, or have reached an age that society feels sufficient for them to support their continued existence, financially.

If it were up for a vote, now, I would support NOT instituting Social Security, but rather making available untaxed support for private investment, and to federally insure those investments, as banks are so supported; which would also add a benefit for encouraging success in the free market economy and increase tax revenues.

However, since the federally supported Social Security is a fact of life, then you can't really insult me, if I were taking advantage of that benefit ... although you leftist hatemongers will continue to lie and defame for party over reason ...

... after all, you all have the collective intelligence of a yellow dog ...

Danni joins the collective effort, "For someone who thinks they are so smart that sure is a stupid sentence."

Fortunately, Danni, I'm not dependent on your collective opinion(s) about me to support my feelings of self-worth. Otherwise, you hatemongers who try to make me the subject to revile and hate would devastate me!

Buzz off, socialist dreamer and hatemonger par excellence!

... after all, you all have the collective intelligence of a yellow dog ...


#174 | Posted by tadowe

Hay, tad. That offends me. I had a yellow lab that died a few years back. Smart, smarter than a lot of people I know. then there was that Disney movie about Ole Yeller .......Bawwwwwwwwww.......

"I would support NOT instituting Social Security, but rather making available untaxed support for private investment, and to federally insure those investments, as banks are so supported; which would also add a benefit for encouraging success in the free market economy and increase tax revenues."

How many people would that benefit besides those that can afford to invest? If you live paycheck to paycheck that is not going to help very much.

Jackass wants enlightement for his dimness, "How many people would that benefit besides those that can afford to invest? If you live paycheck to paycheck that is not going to help very much."

Whoa! Are you not paying voluntary withholding for Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid?

How do you get away with that? Or, are just just too dim for words and definitely out of your league ...?

I'm sorry, Stirs, if I've insulted any yellow dogs, existing outside the neo-communist/Democrat movement ...

Tad because If you did away with those withholdings many people still wouldn't invest it. They would pay the bills they aren't able to pay now.

This is great news for America! What a Xmas gift! The Senate, the House of Reps and President Obama should all be very, very proud.
#140 | POSTED BY MODER8

One more step down the decline of American Empire. A nation dominated by thieves cannot stand.

Tad because If you did away with those withholdings many people still wouldn't invest it. They would pay the bills they aren't able to pay now.
#180 | POSTED BY JACKASS

If Jackass was paying attention to federal finance, SS & Medicare combined are $100 Trillion in arrears. Without the printing press, the feds wouldn't be able to pay their bills.
The money won't be there for you Jackass. Ain't life a bitch.

The money won't be there for you Jackass. Ain't life a bitch.

#182 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-19 05:53 PM

I have a pension waiting for me when I retire along with an IRA.

I worry about others not so much about myself. I am lucky many others work for cheap employers that don't contribute to their retirements.

Forget about your pension. That'll be gone too. Wiped out with the banking system and the dollar. It's kind of ironic. Isn't it.

Guess I should be stocking up on Gold.

That's the funny part about your wishing I get robbed. I keep my savings where crooks can't get it. You have yours out in the open where they can take it. And they will when they need it.

Wow! Only took an hour or so to get the healine back ...

The 60th Vote story was always on the front page.

Tad - what is a healine?

The repubs can't handle that Obama is successful once again in accomplishing more than the retard Bush ever accomplished.

Rogers says, "The 60th Vote story was always on the front page."

Except during that hiatus when it left the page as a headline and re-appeard as a thread. I waited five minutes before checking again and posting ... then checked again before commenting in the Nooner ...

Ray asks, "Tad - what is a healine?"

If I said, "please", Ray, would you not address me with stupid questions ala Danforth ... aye?

...I had a yellow lab that died a few years back. Smart, smarter than a lot of people I know. then there was that Disney movie about Ole Yeller .......Bawwwwwwwwww.......

#176 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at 2009-12-19 05:34 PM


StirSumUp, I know you wrote your post in a joking manner, but I'll bet you still miss your yellow lab like crazy -- even now. I had a small black dog -- part cocker spaniel and part mutt -- who died a number of years ago but still miss that dog to this very day. You mentioned "Old Yeller." The song from the movie makes me misty-eyed every time I hear it. This song's for you.

"Old Shep" - Elvis

Tad - I asked because you have a large vocabulary and you are a good speller. I didn't see the new "headline." It wasn't meant to insult.


The repubs can't handle that Obama is successful once again in accomplishing more than the retard Bush ever accomplished.

#191 | Posted by jackass

Donkey, please inform the posters what he has accomplished.

It all boils down to this: A Democrat Senator's support is available to the highest bidder. This Democrat's belief and that of his voters is up for sale ...

He claims abortion is removed from bill?

Want to bet? Any Democrat yellow-dog want to put some money on it?

How about you, Rogers? I'll give you 2 to 1 your party will continue to try and get murder/abortion of the unborn at taxpayer's expense as part of this or future "bills' ...?

Ray says, "Tad - I asked because you have a large vocabulary and you are a good speller. I didn't see the new "headline." It wasn't meant to insult."

It is inconsequential, Ray. The Nelson thread is once again part of the frontpage, however long it wasn't ...


The repubs can't handle that Obama is successful once again in accomplishing more than the retard Bush ever accomplished.

#191 | Posted by jackass

Donkey, are we getting a single payer system or public option in this plan?

#191...not a repub here, but it all goes into defining 'accomplishment'...of which 'Oboner' really has little to show at this time..!!!

Donkey, are we getting a single payer system or public option in this plan?

#198 | Posted by matsop at 2009-12-19 06:32 PM

No we are getting system that enables those with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

Although the Democrats are well aware that the public is not in favor of this bill, or one pushed through as a political coup, they may still vote it into law and be signed by a complicit president.

They will thereby become dictators and anti-constitutional political criminals and unworthy of support by those who support our Constitution and life of liberty and freedom.

For my part, no governmental distraint will be enough for me to pay one dime in taxes to support murdering of the unborn ... got that you leftist tyrants?

You know, from whichever party, philosophy or group you tie your star unto, it is still a sad state of affairs in how we allow this administration and congress to get to even a vote on a bill....very despicable and more costly each time than the substance of the bill was ever intended to be, but the ignorant seem to always let that escape as long as the vote was won...!!!! Sounds as shallow as the so-called 'leader of the free world'...!!!


The repubs can't handle that Obama is successful once again in accomplishing more than the retard Bush ever accomplished.

#191 | Posted by jackass

Donkey, I do understand that this bill will (in all likelihood) increase taxes considerably over the next 3-4 years, cut medicare to seniors, increase medicaid and shift those costs to the states which are already under water and therfore increase fraud thus robbing the taxpayers of more of their hard earned money---also continue to support big pharma and the commercial insurers. Donkey, please enlighten me on how you can call this an accomplishment?

Jackass promises, "No we are getting system that enables those with pre-existing conditions to get coverage."

Oh? Is that the reason the government now denies me treatment for Agent Orange damage suffered under US use of chemical warfare in Vietnam ...?

Now, are they going to recognize Agent Orange poisoning as a precondition?

No ... because the government will continue to deny any medical care they choose to deny ANYONE, and not just US soldiers who suffered 'friendly fire' wounding ...

... you creeps are just so stupid it is disgusting ...


Let's see, Taxes on the middle class are going up. (I guess that is good. don't sack the rich. If everyone is going to benefit, everyone needs to kick in.)

Hopefully, there is still some provision to JAIL those who remain uninsured.

Larry will still not be covered.

Illegals will get coverage (LIAR!)

Employers will begin dropping insurance as a benefit - no reason to pay for the same thing twice.

People that have NICE insurance (i.e. the kind that pays big bucks for all of the good stuff that "the common person" doesn't get) will be taxes. I guess a further way of forcing a race to the bottom.

No FREE health care - you still have to PAY for what you get. LOL!

My insurance co stock will increase in value.

The dems have signed their retirement letter for 2010 - when the Republicans will take back congress on the simple promise to undo this mess.

The dems got to take lots of money home.

Acorn has assured himself of a place as a one term president that was worse than Carter.

Proof positive that the Dems do not think independently - as not a single one is currently out of lock step...and they cry for the head of anyone who even hesitates.

And there is still the possibility that Joe could save the nation!

No we are getting system that enables those with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

#200 | Posted by jackass

Donkey, I will grant you that is one positive in this whole bill (which in all probability is in the bill). However, the dems and Obama lost a golden chance to really reform healthcare but they're controlled once again by corporate America.

No we are getting system that enables those with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

#200 | POSTED BY JACKASS AT 2009-12-19 06:37 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Never studied business accounting.

Oops...CITIZEN...you are going to start another firestorm with ole Larry..!!!
good post

That's the funny part about your wishing I get robbed. I keep my savings where crooks can't get it. You have yours out in the open where they can take it. And they will when they need it.

#187 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-19 06:05 PM


Uh oh. Now someone might break into your place and start looking at
all the cans and bottles in your house trying to find your gold!

All those items shown in the link are mini-safes -- empty inside and they unscrew so you can put your valuables in them. They're really cool as you can't tell them apart from the real thing. I bought one at a swapmeet which had a "Vegetarian Beans" label figuring it would be one of the last cans of food a robber would want to eat/steal if he went looking through my kitchen cabinets.

And don't anyone get any ideas about ripping me off either. My "Vegetarian Beans" can is empty and now packed away. In fact once I almost threw it out myself when cleaning out the kitchen cabinets.


Oops...CITIZEN...you are going to start another firestorm with ole Larry..!!!
good post

#208 | Posted by drsoul

Where is Lar. I miss correcting his posts.


Dr. Soul,

Can't wait to see how pissed he gets when / if this is signed into law and I ask him if he has coverage. LOL! If everything he has said is true, he, like so many Americans that thought they were about to get FREE HEALTH CARE, STILL WON'T BE COVERED! To borrow a phrase..."funny that be in triplicate!"

Yep, a lot of these 'stargazers' are going to be surprised if this actually makes it into law..!!!
about 3 years from now, you will hear a lot of different stories about who voted for who... like the Bushies, you will not find 10% of the population that will admit to voting for 'Oboner'..

Trust me Chris. If somebody broke into my apartment, they wouldn't find any gold and silver. My television and computer would be at risk. Keeping cash in the bank is far more dangerous.

Those commercial cans are an interesting idea. But I would need to many of them. I think too, that if somebody picked one up, they would notice the heavy weight.

"and use the 'dictionary' as an excuse"

Yeah, like the use of "facts" -- neither seem to be your friend.

"Rhetorical questions are not meant to be answered because the answer is already assumed by the 'questioner'!"

Many questions can have answers assumed by the questioner. That doesn't make them rhetorical. A rhetorical question is one asked with no need for a response, where the question is the effect. Here, the answer is important, even if it forces you to admit people on "government" health care are happier with their insurance situation than those left to the whims of the free market.

I have off on weekends. I can lay around my apt on the couch on Saturdays.

#155 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-19 04:29 PM |


Speaks volumes!

"'Oboner'.."

Gee...let me guess...Yale?

Here, the answer is important, even if it forces you to admit people on "government" health care are happier with their insurance situation than those left to the whims of the free market.

What's to be happy about subsidizing government insurance.

I think too, that if somebody picked one up, they would notice the heavy weight.

#213 | Posted by Ray

That's too appropriate--about a week ago had some boxes of the "stuff" mailed to me via USPS. When I went to pick them up they kept mentioning to me how heavy the boxes were---probably fishing around for what was in them--I had to go to the back of the loading deck to pick them up

Trust me Chris. If somebody broke into my apartment, they wouldn't find any gold and silver.
...

213 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-19 07:05 PM

I didn't think so either, Ray. lol

But that link had some really cool little safes to store jewelry and things, huh? A can of WD-40 or 7-UP likely be the last place a burgler would look for someone's valuables.

But I would need to many of them.

Yarrg, ye may have yerself a few pieces of eight, but me chest be flowin' over with Krugerands and no wench will be takin' them away from me!

But that link had some really cool little safes to store jewelry and things, huh? A can of WD-40 or 7-UP likely be the last place a burgler would look for someone's valuables.

Hahaha sounds like something you would buy at a headshop.

But that link had some really cool little safes to store jewelry and things, huh? A can of WD-40 or 7-UP likely be the last place a burgler would look for someone's valuables.


#219 | Posted by CalifChris

That's the hard part--trying to figure out where to store the stuff--A really good fire retarding safe (ala gun safe) is expensive and heavy-- of course it would be extremely difficult for anyone to remove that from its location (especially with the added weight of the "stuff"---and if bolted to the floor

Here's why I get embarrassed for the idiot ...

Dan says, "Many questions can have answers assumed by the questioner. That doesn't make them rhetorical."

Aside: See? These fools blithely make things up as they go along! They try to save their face, after lying, by lying some more ... or making themselves into complete morons with stupid statements like the above.

Dan, lecturing like a Democrat senator before the forum, "A rhetorical question is one asked with no need for a response, where the question is the effect."

Indeed, Independent Dufus, and that's why you phrased the rhetorical question, thusly: "And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?"

I asked myself the question, although it was almost incoherent in form, only to find out that you DEMANDED an answer, even though you hadn't indicated that - making your question RHETORICAL

I'm through with you, Dan, because you are just too stupid and I'm embarrassed for your blind effort to make-up excuses for your idiocy ...




Here, the answer is important, even if it forces you to admit people on "government" health care are happier with their insurance situation than those left to the whims of the free market.

"What's to be happy about subsidizing government insurance."

Well, since government is already on the hook for about 40% of the insured, and that number is headed up anyway, any method used to stem workers' medical costs outpacing inflation at a 4-to-1 rate will reduce the expenditures in the long run.

Not that any of that matters to you, of course. We're all that snowball on the mountainside, slated to crash...a few months ago...right?

This is great news for America! What a Xmas gift! The Senate, the House of Reps and President Obama should all be very, very proud....

...that they can buy the votes they need to pass their agenda.

FTFY

Incredible that someone actually admires a government that operates in that manner.

"These fools blithely make things up as they go along! "

Tadly, hate to break it to you, but just because the answer is known by the questioner doesn't make it a rhetorical question.

"that's why you phrased the rhetorical question, thusly: "And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?""

Too funny. I put the question in an easily answered format, and you can't even seem to do that. And instead of facing the answer, and what it means, you make me the debate, and pretend the question was rhetorical.

"although it was almost incoherent in form,"

Only to you, Tadly. Only to you.

#218 | POSTED BY MATSOP

I'll tell you too that most, close to all, Americans have no idea of the worth of gold and silver. There was a video on the web of a guy, who as an experiment, went around offering to sell a one ounce Canadian gold coin for $50. Nobody would buy it.

So I'm confident that if somebody broke into my apartment, not only wouldn't they not find it, they wouldn't know what they were looking at if they saw it. It's the people who live in big expensive homes are the ones who should be concerned.

Not that any of that matters to you, of course. We're all that snowball on the mountainside, slated to crash...a few months ago...right?
#224 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Not that soon, but next year is sure to get much uglier. The feds can drag this out for many more years by creating massive amounts of money.

"next year is sure to get much uglier."

Yeah...you said that last year.

I'll tell you too that most, close to all, Americans have no idea of the worth of gold and silver. There was a video on the web of a guy, who as an experiment, went around offering to sell a one ounce Canadian gold coin for $50. Nobody would buy it.

#227 | Posted by Ray

I heard about that video---amazing but okay with me since it tells me we're not even close to the top of the PM's prices.

Yeah...you said that last year.
#229 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

And I was right. Each year is getting progressively worse. You are probably naive enough to buy the bullshit about a recovery.

next year is sure to get much uglier."


Yeah...you said that last year.

#229 | Posted by Danforth

All I know is this thing won't be solved anytime soon and we'll get periods of sedation intertwined with periods of panic. Couldn't believe it but Pelosi actually mentioned today about trying to get the budget under control--where was she when she spent money friviously in the stimulus bill--maybe they're starting to realize the tea-partiers are a stronger force then they anticipated

Millions of Americans will be able to sign up for health insurance that would have been previously denied. To me that is a good thing.

Here, Dan, one more time ... hoping for a bit of light to enter ...

The form of the question you presented was RHETORICAL. That's because it isn't a request for me to answer any question as you now demand I do to satisfy some ulterior motive for me to do so ... since it asks me to ask MYSELF what the answer might be. You assume I will arrive at the answer you infere it to be.

Now, shut up with the excuses, shmuck.

What a sad day for our country.

#19 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

you cunts are speaking from an I position only not the country.. get over it.

Jackass, you are amazingly single focused with no thought given to consequences. Even when we bring them to your intention, nothing penetrates.


Hey Jackass,

let's see some of those people that have been previously denied. Who are these "millions"? Don't forget, they may not be denied, but they STILL HAVE TO PAY for it.

It isn't like signing up to vote. This one will actually cost you. Then if the insurance companies are going to be FORCED to take care of people that were previously uninsurable, what do you think they are going to do to your premiums (assuming that 1 you have insurance and 2 you are healthy as most are)? Tell me how you think your premiums are not going to go up.

Also, please explain to Larry why he still won't have insurance.

we are getting system that enables those with pre-existing conditions to get coverage.

#200 | Posted by jackass at 2009-12-19 06:37 PM

---

Yah, in the year 2014.

Which sure as fuck doesnt help me right now since my wife was just diagnosed w/stage 3 hodgkins lymphoma. Which Blue Cross/Blue Shield has decided is a pre-existing condition since a doctor told her to "get it checked out" back in March.

Oh well, I always wanted to explore bankruptcy.

Why won't Larry have insurance? Because he doesn't have a job?

Also, please explain to Larry why he still won't have insurance.

#237 | Posted by A_Citizen

Where is Lar---must be on vacation or had a health care issue and became one of those mythical Americans that died for lack of health insurance

A_Citizen. I am ok with the fact that my Insurance will go up. I pay about 90 a month for great insurance. If it doubles I could care less.

Why won't Larry have insurance? Because he doesn't have a job?

#239 | Posted by Ray

I think Larry might be disabled and can't work.

Yah, in the year 2014.


Which sure as fuck doesnt help me right now since my wife was just diagnosed w/stage 3 hodgkins lymphoma. Which Blue Cross/Blue Shield has decided is a pre-existing condition since a doctor told her to "get it checked out" back in March.


Oh well, I always wanted to explore bankruptcy.

#238 | Posted by GIMPSTER

Sorry to hear about your wife---I guess of all the lymphomas to have Hodgkins is preferable---very treatable and curable.

1914--and that's part of the con of this bill--upfront taxes with no assurance the benefits will ever happen--classic congressional and Obumster scam--he'll hope to be re-elected in 2012 before this part of the bill ever happens.

I pay about 90 a month for great insurance. If it doubles I could care less.

Since you wouldn't care and since you are so concerned about others' lack of insurance why don't you -- starting today -- take $90 out of your pay and put it towards an insurance premium for someone else?

Or do you really not care that much and you are just full of hot air?

Gimpster says, "Oh well, I always wanted to explore bankruptcy."

Good idea, before filing for malpractice which will gain you potential millions, and which you would have to use part of to pay the debts you incur, pain and suffering.

If the physcian did not make an appointment, or follow-up, any lawyer will at least get your original coverage back, and damages. You can't use your individual example to generalize, anyway. It is especially disgusting to use your personal tradgedy for political reasons ...

... but go figure how yellow dogs think ...

You could even potentially gain a judgement which would highlight why tort reform can save billions, but which Democrats refuse to address ...!!!

Don't whine, get a Democrat malpractice lawyer!

Many of the idiots in this blog still believe that the poor don't get a doctor. Guess they have never been to the emergency room in their entire life. The place is full of illegals and poor people that is paid for by the others that DO have health insurance. And its illegal for any doctor or hospital not to help someone who needs medical care. But then again IDIOTS only reconize others faults, never their own. Todays America is filled with these types of Idiots and you cannot logically explain it to them because they are blind to everything except themselves.

"And its illegal for any doctor or hospital not to help someone who needs medical care"

They have to stablize them. They don't have to carry out continued treatment.

Some people need more than just a quick fix.


Larry - according to his posts - can't get insurance because of some pre-existing condition or he is in a high risk group. It is not for economic reasons - as he has never cited cost. If he were on disability, he would have medicaid through Kansas - which would give him insurance. He has been turned down over and over again. This is why he wants the private insurance companies destroyed - because they turned him down. Now under the new plan HE STILL GETS NO INSURANCE! (At least not until some time in the future.)

Maybe he is on his way to destroy the government and put them out of business, since they have now turned him down too. If so, good luck and I wish him much success!

Don't whine, get a Democrat malpractice lawyer!

#245 | Posted by tadowe

Better yet, John Edwards, who made millions and ripped off physicians and insurers with claims based on "junk science".


Jackass,

Where do you get insurance? Is it a non catastrophic policy? My wife, my daughter and I get insurance through her employer. It runs close to $1,000 per month...but it is good insurance!


"And its illegal for any doctor or hospital not to help someone who needs medical care"


They have to stablize them. They don't have to carry out continued treatment.


Some people need more than just a quick fix.

#247 | Posted by Lisa

Hospitals have the responsibility to treat the non-insured no differently then the insured--been in the healthcare system for years and have seen no difference in treatment--in fact healthcare providers in the hospital system don't almost ever have a clue whether someone has insurance or not.

I am single A_citizen. I could get it for almost free but I get all the upgrades like 0 deductible. I think for a family it runs 4 to 500 a month.

Or do you really not care that much and you are just full of hot air?

#244 | Posted by goatman

Goat I think that is a good Idea.

Mat:

Hospitals can not turn folks away, they have to treat them.

What about someone who comes to the hospital with soft tissue damage in their ankle? The hospital xrays it to make sure there is not a fracture and then they wrap it up, gives them crutches, send them on their way telling them they need to see a specialist. Of course, they have no insurance so they can't.

They've done their job. They stabilized them. It's not their responsibility to do the MRI, perform the surgery, etc.

This happened to a friend of mine.

I don't know where you live but in our system there is always a specialist on call in the various specialties that are responsible for anyone coming through the ERs. For the situation you're describing, after stabilizing your friend, she would be given the assigned specialist (if anything significant found on X-ray that can wait for a day or two) or if she had a family doctor (with negative x-rays) would be referred back to them for followup---then if she continues with difficulty could eventually be referred based on the circumstance.

I live in PA.

She was TOLD that they would just stablize her. She was told to find an ortho who would take her without insurance.

She can't afford to go to her family doctor.

Lisa - From Minnesota to Pennsylvania? Wasn't there another state or two in between?

Based on your comment, I assume she had a family doctor--- Since the X-ray was negative the family doctor was the next appropriate healthcare provider. Most family physicians I know if told about her financial situation would take care of her and do one of two things---if she qualified she could fall under medicaid; if she didn't would probably work out a fee she could live with and pay over time.

Ray:

Never Minnisota!! Wisconsin...which I feel like I'm living back there with all this snow today!! lol

Also MO. I thought it was the state of MO that I loved but it actually is the mountains!

I love living in the mountains!!

I think Larry might be disabled and can't work.

I have a solution for Larry. He could buy a shotgun and apply for permanent disability. He'll get all the insurance he needs.

She doesn't qualify for Medicare for whatever reason.

I just hope she finds a job soon with insurance.

Lisa wants the country to become a socialist one? I just can't believe that ... are you actually a closet communist, Lisa?

There is something wrong with your story, because one of my acquaintances just had major surgery to repair a torn ankle ligament, and which break severly damaged the muscle of his calf.

He wasn't just bound and sent home, but received complete rebuilding of the ligament, calf and the consequent rehabilitation, even though he has no insurance.

Your friend wouldn't agree to reimburse for any future treatment, I'm supposing, and which debt all of us incur, insured or not ... and that's why they wouldn't follow-up. Maybe your friend thinks they deserve free treatment for medical care, already, and their refusal is an attempt to make themselves martyrs for "The Cause"? Ask them to see a specialist and agree to pay for treatment!!!

Not suffer for "The Cause" of getting free medical care that will *never* come from government ... it will cost you your freedom and increase your taxes and make you dependent on government for a little imaginary 'security' ...

I know that the debt for his treatment will be changed, eventually, into a tax write-off, which are allowed medical care facilities for just this purpose ... a capitalist solution in place, now.

Having the government take over the insurance industry to manage healthcare costs is oxymoronic ... ask anyone who has been in the service about socialized medicine ...

There is no human concern in it ...


She doesn't qualify for Medicare for whatever reason.


I just hope she finds a job soon with insurance.

#261 | Posted by Lisa

She would only qualify for medicare if she was age 65 or over; less then age 65 she could fall under medicaid if her income level is low enough. Like I said, most physicians (I would) would treat her and not expect much reimbursement if the person was truly indigent; but as mentioned almost all with minimal income can be covered through medicaid.

Duh...that's right!! lol

She isn't that old.

Yes Tad, I am a closet communist.

Feel better now?


Duh...that's right!! lol


She isn't that old.

#264 | Posted by Lisa

I kind of thought so since I had the feeling you were of the younger type and probably would not necessarily have a lot of friends older then 65.

LOL

Younger type???

I love you Mat!!!

I'm going to be 50 next month!!

I'm going to be 50 next month!!

#267 | Posted by Lisa

Aaaaah, the big 50----does that bother you?

Not at all, Mat!

I enjoy the age I'm at.

Truthfully, my 25 birthday was the hardest!

lol

That one I had a problem with!

I have a solution for Larry. He could buy a shotgun and apply for permanent disability. He'll get all the insurance he needs.

#260 | Posted by Ray


That isn't nice. Larry and I don't get along but I don't widh for him to harm himself. He is a loyal Dem after all.

Lisa lives in Pa. I'll be in Pa for the holidays. Don't think she wants to meet me for beers though. I'll be in the Burg.

I enjoy the age I'm at.

I'm with you there, Lisa. I've never been an age where I wish I was younger. The older I get, the better life is.

Lisa mocks my concern, "Yes Tad, I am a closet communist. Feel better now?"

What a spin, Lisa! I doubt your true motive in supporting this healthcare takeover as being a communist, and you say you are, like some petulant child being contradictory ...

What a tool for party you are, Lisa! You avoid all reasoning which reveals the true motives of this effort ... and you avoid it like politics was some team sport you had to support no matter what ...

I truly feel sorry for dupes like you, Lisa, and the other putative 'independents' who are acting out as a collective or individuals who agree not to allow any argument to sway them from their political goals; as if you were a bunch of reeds bound tightly together, unbendable ...

LOL

Tad...It doesn't matter what I say, you will always spin whatever it is I post and then insult me about it. So, I just agreed with you for the sake of argument.

It didn't work anyway.

LOL

The older I get, the better life is.

#272 | Posted by goatman

You don't worry after you retire you will be all alone?

Single people die sooner they say. I am too selfish to be in a relationship I have been told.

"The older I get, the better life is."

Absolutely!!!

I don't wish to be a younger age either. Never did.

Tadowe put down the Ayn Rand novel and get a grasp of reality. Unregulated capitalism would be disastrous.

Single people die sooner they say. I am too selfish to be in a relationship I have been told.

#275 | Posted by jackass

How can that be?---I thought dems were selfless

I'm not selfless not even close. I like high taxes though.

You don't worry after you retire you will be all alone?

No, I have lots of good friends and I get along very well with everyone in my family


I'm not selfless not even close. I like high taxes though.

#279 | Posted by jackass

Please, jackass, don't say any more---you're destroying my image of a dem and confusing me---I'll never be the same again---am perspiring, breaking out in a rash, having tachycardia, and hyperventilating---the walls are caving in on me and I'm becoming insecure and assuming a fetal position.

Lisa? You said you were a communist. Did you say that as a spiteful lie, or is it the truth?

I'm sure that it was as I described - the act of a petulant child demonstrated by an adult ... for politics ...

You make yourself the fool in doing that, and as your father surrogate here (as you've said) I'm concerned over your display of immaturity, and suppose that it is all about team sports, rather than reasoned politics. What a shame for your character ...

My character is well in tact. And I like who I am Tad.

Thanks for your concern though. But you'll need to find someone else to bark at....I'm not playing your game.

For someone who thinks he is so intelligent, you sure can't detect sarcasm, Tad.

Have a good night anyway.

Hospitals have the responsibility to treat the non-insured no differently then the insured--been in the healthcare system for years and have seen no difference in treatment--in fact healthcare providers in the hospital system don't almost ever have a clue whether someone has insurance or not.

#251 | POSTED BY MATSOP

horseshit

OMG! reading these rejoicing posts of those that are giddy now that it looks like ObamaCare might pass. You can just feel all the love this wonderful piece of legislation had done for the morale of the citizens. Everyone can now look forward and reap the just goods. I give Obama and the Democrats an A+ for finally bring this country together as promised.

On a serious note, I haven't seen so much derogatory comments, name calling and slander ever in a single post. I can't imagine what life will be like after 3 more years of this crap.

People voted for "Hope and Change" and received "Hoax and Chains" and are saying they are lovin' it.

Lisa does go on, "My character is well in tact. And I like who I am Tad."

I had no comment about that, Lisa, and as you know mentioned your display of petulance in saying you were a communist, to spite my concern.

"Thanks for your concern though."

My concern is for your truthfulness, Lisa, and not a compliment, but rather a definite criticism of your effort to support this effort to force the American public into accepting universal insurance.

I imagine you think of it like enforced seat-belts, or other requirements supporting the insurance industry ... it is for the good of the public. However, this is enforced payment that is *demanded* of everyone ... eventually ...

That's tyranny, Lisa.

"But you'll need to find someone else to bark at....I'm not playing your game."

I've *never* demanded your reply, Lisa. That you lead the inference is another display of petulance ...

"For someone who thinks he is so intelligent, you sure can't detect sarcasm, Tad."

Your sarcasm is the very petulance I reference! Now, you are acting out as being stupid for spite ...

Grow up, Lisa.

"And I was right."

No, you said devastation was no further away than late fall 2009. You were wrong.

"The form of the question you presented was RHETORICAL"

Even if you post that 100 times, it still won't make it true. Rhetorical questions don't require an answer. Mine did, even if you refused to answer it. Instead, you're afraid of the truth.

" since it asks me to ask MYSELF what the answer might be. You assume I will arrive at the answer you infere it to be."

No, I'm just using it as a test to see how tethered you are to reality.

Which reminds me, you never directly answered the (non-rhetoric) first question in post #129: do you believe what FoShaffer posted -- that there's a $4K annual extra premium in the health care bill -- is true, or a lie?

horseshit

#285 | Posted by Legio

As usual, Illegitimate responds with a thought provoking irrational drivelling.

Here is my answer, Dan: I think those who are government recipients of socialized healthcare complain the most about the state of that service ... but they are trapped into it by the very nature of the limited socialized medicine that has been established; virtual slaves to government for their health concerns ...

How's that? Don't you agree?

People voted for "Hope and Change" and received "Hoax and Chains" and are saying they are lovin' it.


#286 | Posted by KBM

A definition of masochism and "we'll take whatever we can get although we don't know what the heck that is going to ultimately be except increased taxes from the beginning."

"I think those who are government recipients of socialized healthcare complain the most about the state of that service"

Thanks for the "answer". Too bad it wasn't to the question.

"virtual slaves to government for their health concerns ..."

Huh? You've stated you're not a slave to the government regarding your health insurance...why do you believe you can break free of the chains, but others can't?

"that is going to ultimately be except increased taxes from the beginning."

Two questions:

1. Do you believe Americans need to pay more in taxes, given the trillions of dollars we've borrowed?

2. Have your taxes gone up or down since "the beginning", i.e., since Obama took office?

What was your question, Dan? What answer did you expect me to answer myself, as you asked me to do?

"And ask yourself this: which group complains about their situation more: the "government" folks, or the others?"

I answered: THE GOVERNMENT FOLKS to myself, Dan, and as I just said to you!!!

However, you're so stupid, you can't even remember what rhetorical question you asked, in the first place!

What a complete fool you make of yourself, by getting personal like this.

Now, FO, you idiot ...

in fact healthcare providers in the hospital system don't almost ever have a clue whether someone has insurance or not.


#251 | POSTED BY MATSOP


horseshit

#285 | Posted by Legio

Of course, if illegitimate entered the E.R. and his clothes were old and torn, was unshaven, smelling of wine, staggering about, combative, spouting nonsensical thought processes and words such as "horseshit" the odds are the healthcare provider would probably have a hard time not profiling him. They would infer that illegitimate was either living under a viaduct and/or in the streets, or came from the barnyard or possibly was a partisan dumbocrat who was uneducated--- the healthcare provider would then infer that either he had no insurance or was on medicaid---in any event, he would treat Illegitimate the same as anyone else (wouldn't spend the time running up to the front desk to see if he was uninsured or on what type of insurance program he was on or wasn't on).

that is going to ultimately be except increased taxes from the beginning."


Two questions:


1. Do you believe Americans need to pay more in taxes, given the trillions of dollars we've borrowed?


2. Have your taxes gone up or down since "the beginning", i.e., since Obama took office?

#295 | Posted by Danforth

Answers:

1. Yes--- now the caveat---only if they're used in a responsible manner and not to necessarily increase government size more and ultimately result in greater deficits.

2. Taxes have not yet gone up since Obama took office but this bill is the beginning and he made a committment that the middle class would not see tax hikes---this is an impossibility--I can't stomach liars, scam artists, or politicians that prey on the weak minded like this guy did.

"Legitimate" taxes are ones collected according to the US Constitution, and not by distraint against individuals; which the Founders formed our Consititution to FORBID!

Agreeing to more taxation is agreeing to more tyranny from government which is politically criminal in trying to deny constitutional demands on how taxes are to be collected ...

A National sales tax WOULD be a constitutionally acceptable way to collect taxes, and could be as easily instituted as is being done now by government in collecting taxes from the business sector!

Otherwise, this country will try to spend the economy into socialism and the hope for its perfection to communism ... the anti-American creeps who are attempting to do so now ...

The petty tyrants that have infested the Democrat party need more virtual slaves to government insurance, because the present system is BROKE, BANKRUPT and as a result of mismanagement by government and their efforts to deny service to Medicare/medicaid recipients to try and defray pennies in the inflated costs they have created with their malfeasance!

They need new 'blood' to support their Ponzi healthcare! See? No, of course not! You are self-blinded ideologues who will vote for a yellow-dog before you would a fellow human being if a Republican! You idiots will pay out of your paychecks for 3 years before any government "free" healthcare is available ... and you support the 'theft' to pay for reduced Medicare/medicaid like the slavish, unthinking partisans you are for some future pie-in-the-sky promise from the liars of the left ...

Party partisanship is one of the most disgusting human practices in existence ... and Democrats are the worst of that despicable lot ...

Ah, I love the sound of right wing whining in the morning!
Obama wins! DeMint loses! Cry, babies, cry!

Ah, I love the sound of right wing whining in the morning!

#302 | Posted by igmoramus at 2009-12-20 02:25 AM | Reply | Flag: simple things for simple minds

"I had no comment about that, Lisa, and as you know mentioned your display of petulance in saying you were a communist, to spite my concern."

After being on this site for so many years, most people have realized it's best to humor you rather than try to tell you that your comments are wrong. It's a lose/lose for anyone who addresses you. THAT is why when you falsely accused me of being a closet communist, I simply agreed. You are not one for civil discussion and you always think you are correct in every single opinion you hold... as most of your posts have proven.


"My concern is for your truthfulness, Lisa, and not a compliment, but rather a definite criticism of your effort to support this effort to force the American public into accepting universal insurance."

It would be more beneficial to concern yourself with your own! You twist words and apply positions to people that they do not hold. That's not exactly a display of stellar honesty.

Look in the mirror, Tad before you sit on your throne and pass judgement on others.


"I imagine you think of it like enforced seat-belts, or other requirements supporting the insurance industry ... it is for the good of the public. However, this is enforced payment that is *demanded* of everyone ... eventually ..."

You imagine a lot of things, Tad. Mainly, that you imagine you have such importance on this site.

"I've *never* demanded your reply, Lisa. That you lead the inference is another display of petulance ... "

Who are you kidding???? You SCREAM for attention Tad. Your constant attacking people's character, your over inflated ego begs for attention by claiming people always make you the "topic" of any thread you are on after you name call and insult peoples opinion then sit on the floor pounding your fists, kicking your feet because they respond in kind.


"Grow up, Lisa."

Odd....most people here find themselves thinking you would do the same.

Petulance must be your word for the day.

It's laughable that you do not find that word applying to yourself.


Sad, sad day for our country.
Hopefully, there is still time for us as a nation.
Our country will never be the same if this actually
becomes law.

Words to live by; If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's "free"!!

Hopefully, there is still time for us as a nation.

I'm afraid not. It's become a system of plunder where each party tries to steal more than what is stolen from him. Instead of win-win by cooperation, it's lose-lose by division.

We have become the USSA.. After this Bill the Gov. will completely control us.

what are the Dems working on next?
free food? oh forgot we already have that
free housing, oh got that too
free day care, there I go again, we have that too

funny thing is none of it's free, and what's worse more and more people have figured out that it's easier to just live off of the Gov

horseshit
#285 | Posted by Legio
As usual, Illegitimate responds with a thought provoking irrational drivelling.

#291 | POSTED BY MATSOP

No moron.. only a FEW hospitals the uninsured are allowed to receive treatment. Hospitals only HAVE to stabilize the patient and move them to one that is designated to treat the uninsured and indigent. My wifes cousin was just diagnosed with Liver cancer and was uninsured and had to go to a specific hospital 30 miles away as the hospital that he went to refused him due to lack of insurance since he was in no need of emergency treatment.

Sad, sad day for our country.
Hopefully, there is still time for us as a nation.
Our country will never be the same if this actually
becomes law.
Words to live by; If you think health care is expensive now, wait till it's "free"!!

#305 | POSTED BY SEEDEEZ2

Again another retard responds out his ASS on a subject he knows nothing about. How is it the top providers of Healthcare by country do it for less and better than we do? They are so called socialized. How come the Wall Street Journal is calling health coverage not a perk but something necessary to compete on the world stage? How come they also indicate it is good to take care of the "machinery"" in order to produce goods and services?

"Taxes have not yet gone up since Obama took office"

So your line about since "the beginning" was incorrect.

And btw...taxes have gone down.

Hospitals only HAVE to stabilize the patient and move them to one that is designated to treat the uninsured and indigent. My wifes cousin was just diagnosed with Liver cancer and was uninsured and had to go to a specific hospital 30 miles away as the hospital that he went to refused him due to lack of insurance since he was in no need of emergency treatment.

#308 | Posted by Legio

If illegitimate would only read carefully and then respond instead of shooting from the hip he would realize he has once again been taught--however, it's difficult to educate those not blessed with inductive and deductive reasoning skills--if illegitimate took the time to read carefully what was posted he would see that I was referring to the E.R. in my posting---once again, for someone that learns slowly and arduously (look it up illegitimate), I'll repeat carefully that E.R.s treat anyone that darkens their doors and then refers them out for further treatment---if it is not an emergency, yes, they may then refer someone to a different hospital based on their insurance. I repeat (so you can cerebrate), they will not turn anyone away from an E.R. in need of emergency treatment if said person is at high risk. Yes, they may stabilize (that is defined as treatment) and then make a decision to refer. Illegitimate, do I have to repeat anything again so that the concept penetrates your cranium thus allowing your cerebral synapsis to function?

"What was your question, Dan? What answer did you expect me to answer myself, as you asked me to do?"

Good God, what a moron....

"I answered: THE GOVERNMENT FOLKS to myself, Dan, and as I just said to you!!!"

And a fool, too, if you believe the folks covered by the government complain more about their health insurance situation than those left to the whims of the "free market".

"However, you're so stupid, you can't even remember what rhetorical question you asked, in the first place!"

Yes...yes I can, idiot.

"What a complete fool you make of yourself, by getting personal like this."

Stop looking in the mirror.

"Now, FO, you idiot ..."

Ahhh...the true measure of getting your ass handed to you.

Now...wipe the spittle off your chin, and see if you can answer the question: Did FoShaffer lie, or not?

"We have become the USSA.. After this Bill the Gov. will completely control us."

The government currently insures 40%. Do they "control" those 40%...?

And btw...taxes have gone down.
#310 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

With those massive deficits, that's mathematically impossible. Taxes were pushed into the future making some kind of default a virtual certainty.

If illegitimate would only read carefully and then respond instead of shooting from the hip he would realize he has once again been taught--however, it's difficult to educate those not blessed with inductive and deductive reasoning skills--if illegitimate took the time to read carefully what was posted he would see that I was referring to the E.R. in my posting---once again, for someone that learns slowly and arduously (look it up illegitimate), I'll repeat carefully that E.R.s treat anyone that darkens their doors and then refers them out for further treatment---if it is not an emergency, yes, they may then refer someone to a different hospital based on their insurance. I repeat (so you can cerebrate), they will not turn anyone away from an E.R. in need of emergency treatment if said person is at high risk. Yes, they may stabilize (that is defined as treatment) and then make a decision to refer. Illegitimate, do I have to repeat anything again so that the concept penetrates your cranium thus allowing your cerebral synapsis to function?

#311 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Wow..MATSOP the inbred, self conflating intellectual has the verbosity of a freshman discovering the wonders of 19th century American literature. Stop pontificating turd. Newsflash..you do not have more education than me just because you pretend to be an intellectual denigrating my intellectual capacity. My statements regarding the practice of how hospitals actually treat the citizenry are true. European hospitals are better at treating all citizenry and I know this from spending much time in France and Sweden.

Inbred do you comprende?


"Taxes have not yet gone up since Obama took office"


So your line about since "the beginning" was incorrect.


And btw...taxes have gone down.

#310 | Posted by Danforth

Okay, Danworth, since you seem to be afflicted with the same disease as illegitimate, I'm going to very carefully and methodically respond to your post so that you might be able to inculcate the response into your mind. If you were reading my earlier posts #243 you would understand "the beginning" was in reference to the proposed healthcare bill--when the final bill emerges the following will in all probability happen in the first 3-4 years---premiums will go up for those paying premiums, those not with healthcare (and with a certain income) will in all likelihood have to purchase healthcare or pay a penalty, medicare will be cut for the seniors and some seniors will have to pay higher premiums, medicaid costs will be increased and that cost shifted to the states (now this is where it gets complicated for you Danworth--so expand your horizon); someone has to pay for those costs---duh, increased taxes. Now, (remember, open your horizons) increased premiums are a TAX (wow, Obummer wasn't going to raise taxes on the middle class---another lie--we call that lieing where I come from.) Most of the benefits of this so-called healthcare bill will come after all these taxes. Now, Danworth, do you see where I wasn't inconsistent when I said Obummer hadn't raised taxes yet. Trying to educate some of you folks is difficult but there still is hope.

And btw...taxes have gone down.

#310 | Posted by Danforth

Please, Danworth, pray tell, how have taxes gone down---now, be careful in your response.

"I'm going to very carefully and methodically respond to your post so that you might be able to inculcate the response into your mind. "
...

#316 | Posted by matsop

Who is this fucking windbag? Another Johnson?

My statements regarding the practice of how hospitals actually treat the citizenry are true. European hospitals are better at treating all citizenry and I know this from spending much time in France and Sweden.


Inbred do you comprende?


#315 | Posted by Legio

Once again, I addressed a response to what we were originally discussing (E.R.s) and did not in any way remark about or do a comparative regarding european hospitals (which is another discussion in itself).

Who is this fucking windbag? Another Johnson?

#318 | Posted by nullifidian

No nullified, it's someone that can't stand excrement thrown around by people that don't know what the heck their often talking about---I've noticed you , at times, may fall in that category.

The government currently insures 40%. Do they "control" those 40%...?
#313 | Posted by Danforth

The same way insurance companies control its members. The difference being I get to choose my insurance.

In the future under this bill, I will not e able to, my insurer charges more, my HSA/HDHP will disappear because it doesn't meet 70% avg needed.

The following will happen.....

Healthcare will be a greater precentage of GDP than it is today. It has too, you are having more people pay for it, and people will be paying more for it. So business loses money, healthcare gains, you do the math.....

Healthcare quality for the average person will be lower.
The number of doctors now needed for the new patients doesn't exist, the GOVERNMENT, put a cap on residency.

"Alan Goroll, a professor at Harvard Medical School, said that "the primary lesson of healthcare reform in Massachusetts is that you can't increase the number of insured unless you have a strong primary-care base in place to receive them. Without that foundation Massachusetts has ended up with higher costs and people going to emergency rooms when they can't find a doctor."
thehill.com

I will be paying more taxes in real dollars.
I will not only be paying more for my Healthinsurance, but the Medicare tax rate will increase, maybe not this year but it will follow... its already on thier minds.
www.medicalnewstoday.com

Oh yeah and here is the kicker, under this bill Insurance Companies will make more money, and the managment will get bigger bonuses, you know the shit you constantly complain about.......
Health Insurance companies stocks at 52 YEAR high...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ 2009/12/20/scarborough-health- insura_n_398520.html

Have a nice day...

#321 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Thanks for the knowledgeable and well thought out post---something we often lack around this place.

My wifes cousin was just diagnosed with Liver cancer and was uninsured and had to go to a specific hospital 30 miles away as the hospital that he went to refused him due to lack of insurance since he was in no need of emergency treatment.

#308 | Posted by Legio


I see, so your bitch isn't that your wife's cousin was DENIED CARE, it was that he/she had to travel a WHOLE 30 MILES to get free treatment at a hospital for the indigent and uninsured? Is that the problem we are getting ready to solve by raising everyone's taxes and fucking up our health care system? 30 FUCKING MILES?

I drive further than that to work everyday. Maybe I need some federal dollars - after all, I am a vehicle malfunction away from being without a paycheck....wait a minute..... I am a break down away from DEATH BY STARVATION! (There we go...the minor problem has now become a crisis.) MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE A VEHICLE BREAK DOWN AWAY FROM DEATH BY STARVATION! OH SHIT, Congress needs to nationalize the transportation industry NOW!

I drive further than that to work everyday. Maybe I need some federal dollars - after all, I am a vehicle malfunction away from being without a paycheck....wait a minute..... I am a break down away from DEATH BY STARVATION! (There we go...the minor problem has now become a crisis.) MILLIONS OF AMERICANS ARE A VEHICLE BREAK DOWN AWAY FROM DEATH BY STARVATION! OH SHIT, Congress needs to nationalize the transportation industry NOW!

#323 | Posted by A_Citizen

Man, do I understand your anger and frustration--this government along with wallstreet did us in and now they're about ready again to do it to the middleclass and those that work hard and don't ask for their hand to be held--- hope like heck all goes well for you and you maintain yourself through your independence.

"The same way insurance companies control its members."

You haven't answered the question: if the government currently insures, therefore "controls" 40%, how is that "control" exemplified?

"The difference being I get to choose my insurance."

Between how many? Most health companies are regional, and create virtual monopolies within that region, with less than a half-dozen choices.

"Healthcare will be a greater precentage of GDP than it is today. It has too"

No it doesn't, and if any "health reform" doesn't lower the GDP spent on health, it's a failure. The idea should be to concentrate on wellness -- prevention is MUCH cheaper than cure -- and move people from ERs to GPs. Paperwork should also be streamlined, and tort reform addressed. Other countries pay a lower % of their GDP and cover a larger % of their populace. It's time for us to learn why, and how.

"Healthcare quality for the average person will be lower."

All the more reason to concentrate on wellness and personal responsibility.

"The number of doctors now needed for the new patients doesn't exist, the GOVERNMENT, put a cap on residency."

Well, that's idiotic, isn't it?

"I will be paying more taxes in real dollars."

As you should, as we all should. Record deficits aren't good. We've been getting more than we've been paying, for too long a time.

"...the Medicare tax rate will increase, maybe not this year but it will follow... its already on thier minds."

No shit? Really?!? Health costs for the average worker have risen at four times the inflation rate over the last decade, while Medicare rates have risen...ZERO...and you really think the Medicare tax rate will increase?!? STOP THE PRESSES!!!

"Oh yeah and here is the kicker, under this bill Insurance Companies will make more money, and the managment will get bigger bonuses, you know the shit you constantly complain about......."

Try again. I'm on record against this bill for those same reasons.

"Please, Danworth, pray tell, how have taxes gone down---now, be careful in your response."

Obama lowered tax withholding rates to account for about a $400 per person reduction in income taxes.

Now, carefully respond that you were wrong when you said your taxes went up from the "beginning".

"Now, Danworth, do you see where I wasn't inconsistent when I said Obummer hadn't raised taxes yet."

No, I see where you were an idiot, since taxes have dropped.

"increased premiums are a TAX"

Well, yeah, if you get to make up your own definitions.

"With those massive deficits, that's mathematically impossible."

WTF are you talking about? We've witnessed it again and again over the last decade.

Once again, I addressed a response to what we were originally discussing (E.R.s) and did not in any way remark about or do a comparative regarding european hospitals (which is another discussion in itself).

#319 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Now "Inbred" is attempting to act as though ad hominem attacks didn't occur and that he is the final arbiter of how ALL hospitals operate in the US.

No, I think the comparative to Europe is not only relative but pertinent to the discussion of how fucked up our health care delivery operates in this country. Insurance is the end all be all and if you fall through the cracks then people are basically told fuck you.. hope you don't die.

but do keep on keepin' on..

I see, so your bitch isn't that your wife's cousin was DENIED CARE, it was that he/she had to travel a WHOLE 30 MILES to get free treatment at a hospital for the indigent and uninsured? Is that the problem we are getting ready to solve by raising everyone's taxes and fucking up our health care system? 30 FUCKING MILES?

#323 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

No.. It is that the place he is getting care can't really treat him only offer palliative care and the place that could treat him that turned him away could actually treat him..

Death by denial and obfuscation.

This wouldn't be a problem IF he could actually obtain a policy but no one.. I mean NO ONE would issue said policy because of a pre-existing condition called Hepatitis B.

Don't let FACTS cloud your ability to jump to conclusions and make incorrect assumptions.

You sir should be clubbed like a baby seal..

Man, do I understand your anger and frustration--this government along with wallstreet did us in and now they're about ready again to do it to the middleclass and those that work hard and don't ask for their hand to be held--- hope like heck all goes well for you and you maintain yourself through your independence.

#324 | POSTED BY MATSOP

You cocksuckers don't like the direction this country is heading you are more than welcome to TRY and uprise against it or you are more than welcome to take the next flight out to the Democratic nirvana of your choice..

thats what I thought.. shut up, sit down and be a good pussy.


This wouldn't be a problem IF he could actually obtain a policy but no one.. I mean NO ONE would issue said policy because of a pre-existing condition called Hepatitis B.


Legio

No shit. Well, I am going to get really drunk and drive at a high rate of speed in an ice storm on a busy freeway. Do you want to sell me auto insurance?

My house is in a valley next to a river, the dam upstream has broken and we are expecting record rain. Do you want to sell me flood insurance?

My house is on fire. Will you sell me fire insurance?

I am very depressed and contemplating suicide. Will you sell me life insurance?

Since the answer to all the above is "no", why do you think an insurance company should be forced to pay for medical care for someone who has a KNOWN CLAIM for more than someone else? Do you not understand that insurance is a bet that the insurance company makes that you will pay in more than you will take out? Why should they be forced to take a bet that you KNOW they are going to lose?


I see, so your bitch isn't that your wife's cousin was DENIED CARE, it was that he/she had to travel a WHOLE 30 MILES to get free treatment at a hospital for the indigent and uninsured? Is that the problem we are getting ready to solve by raising everyone's taxes and fucking up our health care system? 30 FUCKING MILES?



A citizen sounds like a whiney schoolgirl crying about his taxes. Get a second job if you need more money otherwise stfu.


You cocksuckers don't like the direction this country is heading you are more than welcome to TRY and uprise against it

Legio

That is what elections are for. In the alternative, you simply work within the system to minimize exposure. Talk to Danforth about how that works.

Since the answer to all the above is "no", why do you think an insurance company should be forced to pay for medical care for someone who has a KNOWN CLAIM for more than someone else? Do you not understand that insurance is a bet that the insurance company makes that you will pay in more than you will take out? Why should they be forced to take a bet that you KNOW they are going to lose?


How about the wealthy contribute so the uninsured have
a subsidy so they can be covered? I think you make enough to contribute.


Jackass,

Why do I need to get a second job to pay for someone else's health insurance. Why don't you get a second job to pay for my transportation from my house to work everyday? You want me to pay those taxes - how about a little handout to make sure I can get to work and pay them? 45 miles one way isn't too much to ask.


Jackass,

Why are you always standing at my door with your hand out? How about the poor all kick in to pay for each other? I am sure they can band together and do that.

I do pay for health care for the incarcerated. If they want to give up their freedom to become an inmate, I suppose I would be willing to cover their medical care.

Take the bus or get a moped or get a job closer simpleton. Where you work isn't life or death. Liver cancer is you dumbass. Maybe you will get sick without coverage and I'll make retarded comparisons.


If I don't work, how do I pay my bills? How do I eat. Like I said, I am a vehicle malfunction away from starvation. Hell, if I were unemployed, I could lose my HEALTH INSURANCE! There are millions of Americans like me. This is a CRISIS! Open your wallet you selfish bastard.

OR---

Tell the uininsured to....save money, get health insurance when your are healthy. You don't need satellite television and high speed Internet if you can't get the basics taken care of. Don't buy booze this week. You don't need "grill work", tattoos, body piercings, custom rims, a new stereo system, the latest video game, etc. Those things are not life and death...life without insurance is. Plan ahead.

Good grief A Citizen!

That's your opinion of people who don't have insurance?? They're all drunken tat and body pierced couch patatoes??

I suspect that's just what you would like to believe so your conscience rests easier at night for being so uncaring.

Millions are uninsurable you stupid moron. They aren't going to be able to buy insurance ever without laws changing. Why is it so hard for you to grasp? It isn't that they are wasteful with their money. The insurance companies will not take them.

Do you not understand that insurance is a bet that the insurance company makes that you will pay in more than you will take out? Why should they be forced to take a bet that you KNOW they are going to lose?

#333 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

The initial attack was that he was lazy and didn't want to drive 30 miles for treatment. You are an asshole. Period.

You are making the point that Insurance is not sufficient to cover the American public since everyone, I mean EVERYONE will have some disease, illness,accident with long term consequences or genetic issue that will disqualify them at some point.

Thanks for making the case that:

1- It is a for profit enterprise that will charge more than it takes in on the backs of the healthy.

2- It covers only 1/2 of the populace not on medicare, medicaid that is healthy leaving the unhealthy to fend for themselves or be covered by the government.

3- That is it no longer functional.

Tell the uininsured to....save money, get health insurance when your are healthy. You don't need satellite television and high speed Internet if you can't get the basics taken care of. Don't buy booze this week. You don't need "grill work", tattoos, body piercings, custom rims, a new stereo system, the latest video game, etc. Those things are not life and death...life without insurance is. Plan ahead.

#340 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

This stupid fuck is why euthanasia should be implemented. He assumes that all of us waste money and that saving 250/ month by basically cutting yourself off and living the life of a monk would make up for the fact that insurance companies won't issue you a fucking policy if you have preexisting condition..

I will pray for him to obtain a near fatal illness in which treatment will be either denied or partially paid and have his policy subsequently dropped. I will also pray that he goes bankrupt under the new laws enacted by his demigod BUSH so he can live under a bridge and go on public assistance.

This legislation is the lynch pin to imposing socialism on the country and the adminstration is using every sleazy back alley tactic to achieve their goal.
Period.

#343 | POSTED BY CRACKA_LACKA

tell us more Mr Rothschild.. You fuckers are amazing.. The whole world is a giant conspiracy to fuck up your ideal concept of a republic/democracy.

Grow up..

"With those massive deficits, that's mathematically impossible."
WTF are you talking about? We've witnessed it again and again over the last decade.
#329 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

That's precisely the problem. You better take a long look at this chart. No person. No nation can continue to pile up debts like this without hitting a limit. This health care bill is another symptom of fiscal recklessness. I can't tell precisely how and when this is going to collapse, but it's certainly gone beyond the point where it can be avoided.

market-ticker.org

#332 | Posted by Legio

Put down the paper bag and modeling glue, step outside, and get a little fresh air.

Dec
20
Health Insurance Company Stock Prices Say it All

The other day, Dylan Rattigan on MSNBC was giving Rep. Wassersman-Schulz (D-Fl) a hard time about the health care package. He disputed her contention the bill was a big win for consumers. He wanted to know why the stock prices for Big Insurers (e.g.m, Aetna, Cigna, Wellpoint, United Health) shot up if this was such a big loss for them.

www.opednews.com

"You better take a long look at this chart. No person. No nation can continue to pile up debts like this without hitting a limit."

I know that, and I've known it a long time.

However, that has nothing to do with what I said about your ludicrous statement.

BOHICA.


Legio and Jackass,

So your contention is that these people that are uninsured have had insurance all along. BULLSHIT. These are generally people that chose not to have health insurance until something went wrong then wanted someone to pay for it. It doesn't work that way.

Legio says "It is a for profit enterprise that will charge more than it takes in on the backs of the healthy."

I think you mean "more than it pays out". But Yes, the healthy pay for MORE than they use. The unhealthy pay for LESS than they use. After all, if they paid or could pay for health care at actual cost, you would not be bitching.

Legio, What I am saying is that if you started with insurance when you were young and healthy like Jackass, you would have insurance and not be "uninsurable". You simply buy the things that you need when you don't need it in hopes that you never do. If you don't buy it, you don't get to make the other customers of the insurance company pay for your medical costs.

So tell me Legio, why is driving 30 miles too much to ask when you haven't had the foresight to get insurance for the possibility that you need it.

Lisa,

On the contrary, I suspect that most of the people I just described are already on state insurance of one kind or another. They also don't "haf to pay deh mogage or put gas in deh cah". It is the rest of us that have to shoulder that burden. And I sleep just fine thinking that regardless of what they look like, they did not plan for such a problem and now are living with the consequence of that decision.

Legio and Lisa,

I think you should all talk to Jackass. He has health insruance for less than $100 per month. So I am not aksing for $250, $100 would have gotten it done....until you have that known condition. Once covered the insurance company has to honor that contract. So you get the bargain you paid for...otherwise you pay out of pocket.

#332 | Posted by Legio
Put down the paper bag and modeling glue, step outside, and get a little fresh air.

#348 | POSTED BY THE_NETHER


Leave my anesthesia out of this conversation.

You can hit the next flight to wherever too. Apparently "Amerika" isn't what is use to be so hit the road Kerouac.

So your contention is that these people that are uninsured have had insurance all along. BULLSHIT. These are generally people that chose not to have health insurance until something went wrong then wanted someone to pay for it. It doesn't work that way.


#352 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

HUH?? Go back and read again..Being denied is not the same as saying "fuck it.. I'll use indigent care."

Legio, What I am saying is that if you started with insurance when you were young and healthy like Jackass, you would have insurance and not be "uninsurable". You simply buy the things that you need when you don't need it in hopes that you never do. If you don't buy it, you don't get to make the other customers of the insurance company pay for your medical costs.
So tell me Legio, why is driving 30 miles too much to ask when you haven't had the foresight to get insurance for the possibility that you need it.

#352 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

You are a fucking stupid individual..go back and read again Copernicus..

I know that, and I've known it a long time.
However, that has nothing to do with what I said about your ludicrous statement.

#350 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

About the mathematical impossibility of accumulating debts forever?

Once covered the insurance company has to honor that contract. So you get the bargain you paid for...otherwise you pay out of pocket.
#352 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

no they don't.. speaking from experience.

"About the mathematical impossibility of accumulating debts forever?"

No, about it being mathematically impossible to lower taxes with large debts.

taxprof.typepad.com

Here is one Danforth...

And:


Senate Healthcare Bill - Tax on Employer paid insurance begins this January!
Senate Finance Committee ^ | 10-19-09 | Senate Finance Committee

From Section 6002 on page 1435:

INCLUSION OF COST OF EMPLOYER-SPONSORED HEALTH COVERAGE ON W2

The definition of taxable income is revised to include "the aggregate cost of applicable employer-sponsored coverage". . .

"The amendments made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2009."

Senate Bill ($849 billion/10 years) House Bill ($894 billion/10 years)
Individual Mandate Yes, penalty of $750 by 2016 for those don't purchase coverage. ($95 penalty in first year) Yes, penalty of 2.5% of income for those who remain uninsured
Employer Mandate Free rider provision. Employers would have to pay whichever is lower: $3,000 per every employee who receives a subsidy in the Exchange, or $750 for every employee (not just the subsidized worker). Yes, employers who don't' offer coverage would pay a fee equal to 8% of their payroll
Medicaid Expansion Up to 133% FPL. 100% federal funding for the first 3 years, then revert to Senate Finance language. Up to 150% FPL
Subsidies Between 133 400% FPL on sliding scale; spend 2%-9.8% of income on premiums Between 133 400% FPL on sliding scale; spend 2%-12% of income on premiums
Public Option National public plan, states can opt-out by 2014. Co-ops are also available. Yes, HHS secretary negotiates rates
Financing Excise tax on policies above $8,500 (individuals) and $23,000 (families), increases the payroll tax by .5% (increases to 1.95%) on individuals who earn more than $200,000 and families earning more than $250,000 a year, tax on insurers, pharmaceuticals, and medicare devices; Medicare savings 5.4% surtax on individuals earning > $500,000, couples earning more than $1 million; Medicare savings

So ...Taxes start in 2010 - coverage does not start until 2014 - and the agreegate cost of a person making 50K with the taxing of employee healthcare benefits, increases in Medicare, increases in Medical equipment taxes (which will result in few MRI and CAT SCAN Machines) and the various other taxes impact to the tune of $4K


Legio -

Being denied - as in you don't have coverage, you try to get coverage and the insurance company says no? Not hard to figure out. Either the person was not insured or their policy did not cover the thing that they need coverage for and now they cannot get coverage.

By the way...how did that person get Hep B? Are you saying that the person HAD INSURANCE....because your example said "My wifes cousin was just diagnosed with Liver cancer AND WAS UNINSURED..." What did I miss?

We can't let people just die like we have been. One way or another they need to be covered. I prefer a public option but if that isn't acceptable I say we force them upon the pvt insurance companies. Everybody's rate will go up but I don't care it is the right thing to do.


Jackass,

That is easy to say at less than $100 per month. Say that when YOU pay $1,000 per month.

No, about it being mathematically impossible to lower taxes with large debts.
#358 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

At this point it doesn't make much difference. Revenues are falling fast.

A couple of big winners in this bill, purportedly are big pharma and the insurance companies--it'll really be interesting what finally happens when they go to conference and come out with the final disaster---appears for now a lot of taxes up front and so-called benefits after Obummer tries to win election hoping that he is not held accountable for this mess--- there will be some positives but not many.

I can't tell precisely how and when this is going to collapse, but it's certainly gone beyond the point where it can be avoided.


market-ticker.org


#347 | Posted by Ray

At this point the U.S. is saddled with so much debt that it defies comprehension---it appears to me the only way out of this debt disaster is to partially-renege on the debt (like a % of some Americans that have lived lives beyond their means) and then resort to devaluation or outright inflation.


Matsop,

Invest in big pharma and certain insurance co. (I suggest AIG since s significant number of senators own stock in that company.) If you can't beat'em, you just as well make a profit from them!

By the way...how did that person get Hep B?


#360 | Posted by A_Citizen

Legio, of course, you don't have to answer, but how did that person get Hep B?

"Let me make the superstitions of a nation & I care not who makes laws or its songs."

Mark Twain was making fun of what Baron MA Rothschild (1818 - 1874) meant when he said:"Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws."

#365...
Obama has put everything on Congressional dems to pass something. Obama has played them like a fiddle and has all kinds of outs when this blows up. Both Houses will be the ones to suffer next year and hopefully 2012. I can only hope the repubs don't screw it up.

It will be a riot when Obama does sign a bill without any of his campaign or Presidential promises.

...then resort to devaluation or outright inflation.

It's coming, even as the Obamamamas merrily point to the short term benefits the Messiah's stimulus packages have provided as proof that the nation's economic problems are over.

Matsop,


Invest in big pharma and certain insurance co. (I suggest AIG since s significant number of senators own stock in that company.) If you can't beat'em, you just as well make a profit from them!

#367 | Posted by A_Citizen

Better yet I owned their preferred stock awhile back when it was 4 and subsequently, it went to about 16 and has a dividend of 7%.

Mat

They don't care. They don't care how much it costs. They don't care who it hurts. They don't care if the money isn't there. They don't care if their hated insurance companies are more empowered. They don't care if the insurance profits they once said were too high, go higher. They want it at all costs. It's a piranha feeding frenzy.

They either ignore me or they hate me every time I remind them.

Ray we want it because we know eventually everything will work out for the best.

Mark Twain was making fun of what Baron MA Rothschild (1818 - 1874) meant when he said:"Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws."

#369 | Posted by Bani

In November of 1910, after having consulted with the Rothschild banks in England, France, and Germany, Senator Nelson Aldrich boarded a private train in Hoboken, N.J. His destination was a hunting club owned by JP MOrgan. Aboard the train were six other men, 4 of them bankers, assistant secretary of the treasury, Platt Andrew, and Paul Warburg--- they were to meet secretly to form the federal reserve----MORE OF THE STORY TO FOLLOW.

Ray we want it because we know eventually everything will work out for the best.

Those are words you are going to regret.

MORE OF THE STORY TO FOLLOW.

#375 | Posted by matsop

They decided that they were to leave their last names behind and were to meet secretly on Jekyll Island. The goal was to establish a private bank that would control the national currency.The challenge was to slip the scheme to the representatives of the American people. Earlier it had been called the Aldrich Bill and received effective opposition. The planners of the revised bill titled it "The Federal Reserve Act" to mask its real nature (seems nothing ever changes in Washington). It would create a system controlled by private individuals who would control the nation's issue of money--this would be accomplished by mortgaging the government through borrowing. The plan worked. The Federal Reserve Bill was held until December 23 (2 days before Christmas) before it was presented to the House and Senate. Only those senators and congressmen who had not gone home for the holidays---those who owed favors to, or were on the payroll of, the bankers were present to sign the legislation.

As some of us know, the name "Federal Reserve Bank" was designed to deceive, and it still does. It is not federal, nor is it owned by the government. It is privately owned. It pays its own postage like any other corporation. Its employees are not civil service. Its physical property is held under private deeds and is subject to local taxation (government property is not).

No other bank can create money out of nothing, loan it out and charge interest on it. Every dollar they create represents a dollar of debt. It's the greatest Pyramid Scheme in history.

This is when the minds of the usual crowd go blank.

They either ignore me or they hate me every time I remind them.

#373 | Posted by Ray

Ray, you're fortunate; they usually shoot the messenger of bad news and truth. Throughout history, the weak are always manipulated by the powerful and there is no difference today---as this thing gets worse, you'll see more and more of that since the weak will look to the cult of the personality for an out for their problems. Like Jim Jones' followers, it is very hard for them to finally think for themselves and extricate them from narcissistic personalities that manipulate them.

By the way...how did that person get Hep B? Are you saying that the person HAD INSURANCE....because your example said "My wifes cousin was just diagnosed with Liver cancer AND WAS UNINSURED..." What did I miss?

#360 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

Why do you give a fuck? You would come up with some fucked up reason to say let him die and say "he should have..(insert pious rationale here)"

One day motherfucker, not if.. You will have your moment in the sun and then you can remember we won't/don't give a shit what happens to you.

BTW.. you can look up how hep B is transmitted and the top reasons..

www.emedicinehealth.com B Causes

his mode was from childhood transmission.

his mode was from childhood transmission.

#383 | Posted by Legio

I would assume from his mother.


I had already found that before I asked the question. I suspected that would be the answer - draw what conclusions you want.

I had already found that before I asked the question. I suspected that would be the answer - draw what conclusions you want.

#385 | Posted by A_Citizen

For the amount of time it took legio to answer that question I figured he had to go to a site to find possible etiologies of Hep B; but then again, maybe we're not being fair to him.

I had already found that before I asked the question. I suspected that would be the answer - draw what conclusions you want.

#385 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN

typically this is the only variety that fulminates into chronic and eventually cancer..it is really sad and no he isn't a deadbeat and has worked as a master welder for the last 20 years (independent contractor)

For the amount of time it took legio to answer that question I figured he had to go to a site to find possible etiologies of Hep B; but then again, maybe we're not being fair to him.

#386 | POSTED BY MATSOP

nope.. I worked as a Histologist (ASCP) for 10 years and was vaccinated for Hep b at that time. Also taught blood borne pathogen training to hospital personnel. Now I am a farmer.

Let see, two dudes in a stall, but not using the toilet, upon leaving said stall one dude bites off the nose of a third party...cocaine was not involved.

#8 | Posted by taxman

Thanks for the civilized answer---as you're probably well aware then Hep C is much more virulent and results % wise in more chronic liver cases and liver cancer.

Sorry about the #8 posting from the other site.

Sorry about the #8 posting from the other site.

Posted by matsop at 2009-12-20 09:45 PM

No excuses. Expect lumps of coal in your stockings on Christmas morning.

No excuses. Expect lumps of coal in your stockings on Christmas morning.


#391 | Posted by CalifChris

Thanks, Merry Christmas.

Merry friggin rip off to the American People.

These asshats don't even know what is in the bill!

Nelson--called the senatorial prostitute by
Overbite on MSLSD. Goes with Landreu--heck the whole lot of them.


Now they have to merge the two bills--one from the house and onefrom the senate.

Behind closed doors and no bi-partisanship will be involved.

Watch for the public option to pop up again. And the Stupek amendment to be taken out.

And that will kill the bill for the final/next vote go around.

Hoax and change...

So, they have a massive bill; and I do mean massive; that affects 1/3 of our economy and are practicing the worst sort of politics to get it passed ASAFP. With all of these ammendments flying around and the bill morphing constantly, how can our lawmakers possibly have the time to sift through it and make a responsible vote?

Answer: They can't.

This has become ALL about a political victory for the Dems. They don't give a shit that this bill is horrible based upon its core aspects. It's all about spinning a political victory and grossly expanding state power at all costs.

This is all very disenheartening.

My wife works in Accounts Payable for a health provider under the U of M health system. As a public provider they can not turn away any Medicare patients. As it is, every service they provide to Medicare patients they do so at a loss when they get paid. Currently, Medicare is delaying all sorts of payments as they are waiting to see how all of these massive changes affect their program. My wife's company is getting buried, through no fault of their own, by the federal government. I guaruntee her company is not even remotely close to the only provider going through this and you assholes cheer.

"This has become ALL about a political victory for the Dems"

funi thing is the repubs are even worst...which is about par for the course these days in America

Our rulers in DC steal our liberty and put us into economic and physical slavery to the state and they congratulate themselves for working "on behalf of the American people". What a loathsome bunch, slinking around in secrecy to pass this so-called health reform bill in the dead of night during the holidays.

It would seem that this health care plan forcing us to purchase a product and subjecting us to the scrutiny and punishment of various agencies, including the IRS, violates the 10th Amendment to the Constitution outlawing slavery. It may also violate our right to privacy, unreasonable searches and seizures and equal protection, since citizens of some states get benefits while others do not. That is because some Senators were bribed for their vote with our tax dollars and special deals for citizens of their state for which other citizen tax dollars will pay.

Those who railed against the Patriot Act are now silent even as the Messiah and his despicable minions in Congress lay the chains of tyranny at our feet, to be picked up and bound around our children.

When your representatives return to your state for the holiday's. Welcome them then shoot them.

Mark this 'vote date' as one of the most tragic days in the history of America....
One further step in the destruction of freedom and economic status...
Thank 'Oboner' for bending his knees and bowing to his mental and soul mistress 'Napalm Nancy' and 'Horrible Harry' for this latest terror attack on the USA...!!!!

It's a shame that Nelson was willing to hold health care reform hostage -- affecting the lives of millions of Americans -- without some goodies for Nebraska. But that's how legislation gets written in this country, and I'm glad the health care reform bill is back in business.

#10 | Posted by rcade

Sort of like Obama waiting so long to make a decision on Afghanistan. That indecision cost lives not just whether people had health care or not.

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