It has been proven that Barbara Olson never made that call. Now it seems there were never any hijackers in the cockpit. Why won't the government release the video of the plane hitting the Pentagon? This is Obamas ball now.

Awesome find Bob. Anything short of a new investigation is criminal. Not yet convinced? Watch Jesse tonight.

A stuck switch on the flight deck's door couldn't possibly explain it.

Minor things break on airplanes all the time.

Now the question is...

What does the cockpit voice recorder have on it?

I bet Dick Cheney shot JFK.

I bet MysteryToy killed Jack Ruby.

They bridged the connection with a car antenna

What other anomalies were there about Flight 77?

Alleged Flight 77 hijacker pilot, Hani Hanjour, was described as a horrible pilot [yet made a nearly impossible manuever in order to fulfill the official version] by his flight instructors, was the only hijacker who didn't have a passenger number or seat assignment, and was unable to rent a single-engine Cessna 172 one month before 9/11 because he had trouble controlling and landing it during a test flight. (CBS, NY Times, Washington Post, Newsday)

9/11 - Flight 77's radar stops near Ohio/Kentucky border and is the only one of the four hijacked planes that wasn't able to be tracked all the way. (Flight Explorer, Washington Post)

Flight 77 is piloted by ex-Navy fighter pilot who worked on anti-terrorism strategies in same area of Pentagon hit by his plane and a passenger on board is an ex-Navy Admiral, jet fighter pilot, and American Airlines captain who also worked at Pentagon. (Newsday, Washington Post)

Boy on Flight 77 is lectured by military father beforehand about dying who subsequently takes a 'rare day off' from working in same area of Pentagon that son's plane will later crash into. (MSNBC)

Pentagon crash happened right in the middle of the only section being renovated to bolster it against an attack which severely limited damage and loss of life. (USA Today, Army)

Wow, and they call the Birthers nuts.

Wow, and they call the Birthers nuts.

The birthers have to call someone else nuts.

Pardon me, but I think I'll remain skeptical of whatever tripe gets posted on some truther message board and attributed to "independent researchers".

because he had trouble controlling and landing it during a test flight.

He didn't have to land it.

I thought cancer killed Jack Ruby....oh, now I get it.

No you only think it was cancer.

I see no logic from the skeptics except to say those who ask questions are nuts or crazy. That makes you sheeple---you will believe anything.

Facts are--Barbara Olson never made that phone call.

Facts are there is no video that has been released of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

Facts are the black box showed no entry into the cockpit.

Facts are you people who don't question are sheep. You should never call yourself Americans---because you aren't---you are just sheep.

I might be out on a limb here but it's not too common for american terrorists to do the suicide thing. All the ones I remember they were killing or blowing up someone else and trying to survive the act themselves.

Mystery Toy

I'm watching Jesse Ventura now. What happened to the black boxes?

I don't know. I don't even know if the integrity of the device is tested periodically.

I don't even know if the integrity of the device is tested periodically.

#17 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2009-12-09 11:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

I doubt you care either. I doubt you would spend 30 seconds to find out any information on anything.

Facts are the black boxes are bright orange, made of steel or titanium, and designed to withstand any aircrash and the fire of burning fuel. Facts are there has never been a crash of an airliner where they didn't find the black box. They even found the black box of flight 800 that blew up over the ocean. The government says they didn't find any of the 4 black boxes from 911. They found slivers of flesh the size of fingernails for DNA analysis to identify victims, but none of the 4 black boxes. Does this sound reasonable to you?

He didn't have to land it.

#11 | Posted by Ron_Karate at 2009-12-09 08:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

He did have to control it.

A stuck switch on the flight deck's door couldn't possibly explain it.

#3 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2009-12-09 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

True. When there is a malfunction, such as a stuck switch, it is reported during testing. The door switch is tested every 4 seconds.

He did have to control it.

#19 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Bob,

Not trying to weigh in on the conspiracy theory here, but there is a large difference between controlling a plane on the ground (taxiing) and controlling one in the air.

When I was learning to fly a few years back, my flight instructor pointed out that actually flying the plane takes a few minutes to learn. The paperwork and radio work take much longer, and learning to land correctly can take the rest of your life.

PS. I flew in a 172 mostly, with the occasional piper twin if I was bored and wanted to buzz Pike's Peak and scare the mountain goats.

Data from the FDR on Flight 77 had shown no activity of the flight deck door for the previous 40 hours of flight...FYI

but there is a large difference between controlling a plane on the ground (taxiing) and controlling one in the air.

It's not just controlling it, though. My uncle used to take me flying when I was 10 and 11 years old. I couldn't even see over the console, but I could watch the gauges and keep the craft level and straight.

This guy somehow managed to make a hard turn, descend enough to hit the Pentagon dead on, but managed to miss plowing into the front lawn by only inches.

9-11 Truthers are called all sorts of names by people who have no real investigation on which to base their strong beliefs that 9-11 happened the way we were told it happened. I think you would have to be either stupid or biased to absolutely believe the load of huey we were fed by the 9-11 commission. I don't know what happened but I also don't believe the authorities wanted us to know what happened on 9-11 any more than they did when John Kennedy was shot.

Minor things break on airplanes all the time.

Now the question is...

What does the cockpit voice recorder have on it?

#3 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2009-12-09 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

I sat on the tarmac for five godam hours onetime because they could not decide whether to repair or replace a small part of the navigator's seat.

Aircraft have millions of parts.

What does the cockpit voice recorder have on it?

#3 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2009-12-09 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

That was obviously faked -- like the moon landings. Ask Boob

Facts are there has never been a crash of an airliner where they didn't find the black box.

----

Facts are that just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can never happen.

Facts are that just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can never happen.

#27 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is true. However, does the fact that 4 black boxes were never found in 4 crashes in one day seem a little odd to you? Does the fact that there is an eyewitness to one of the black boxes being found make it seem like there is a lie floating around someplace? If this were the only question--if this were the only "first" about 911, if this were the only unanswered question about 911, if I were the only one with doubt, I would let it pass. As it is, there are enough questions--enough anomolies--enough people with doubt that it seems there should be another investigation--an investigation that isn't behind closed doors, and is open to the public--an investigation that answers all the questions.

Data from the FDR on Flight 77 had shown no activity of the flight deck door for the previous 40 hours of flight...FYI

#22 | Posted by ASSHAT at 2009-12-10 05:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Link...FMI

That was obviously faked -- like the moon landings. Ask Boob

#26 | Posted by vernon at 2009-12-10 09:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is about 911. You have nothing of value to add to the moon landings, except no-thought nonsense. How about a link to the cockpit voice recordings and what they say, and add some value to this discussion.

Laughing at you, as always.

BB

;-)

an investigation that isn't behind closed doors, and is open to the public--an investigation that answers all the questions.

----

No investigation is going to answer all the questions nor satisfy the critics.

My biggest beef with the conspiracy theorists is they have no viable alternative to the official story.

My biggest beef with the conspiracy theorists is they have no viable alternative to the official story.

#31 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Of course there are viable alternatives. You just don't like them, and have no response for them.

Here is one. Both Isreali and American intelligence discover the plot of 911 months before the event. Larry Silverman, who has all sorts of friends in important places learns of this from either, or both intel sources. He owns the Towers and WTC 7. All of his buildings will require extensive rehabilitation in the coming years, costing millions upon millions of dollars.

The Isrealis want 911 to happen to bring the US into the middle east and take the heat off the Isrealis and to have a stronger US presence. The US wants 911 to happen so they can boost the economy, control oil resources better, and have a stronger presence in the middle east. That they were mistaken about the economy is beside the point.

Silverman, with US knowledge, has his workmen who are already painting in his buildings, change to a new primer. The new primer is liquid super thermite, which looks and acts like paint until ignoted with fire. The workmen don't even know they are painting on the thermite. Silverman allows a small group of black ops--either from the US or Isrealis--to plant some explosives in critical areas of his buildings.

911 happens--explosions go off before the planes hit in the basements. The buildings fall. The US gets its access to oil and a stronger presence in the middle east. The Isrealis get some heat taken off them and a stronger US presence for the future. Silverman collects millions upon millions from insurance.

Of course there are viable alternatives. You just don't like them, and have no response for them.

----

I said no *viable* alternatives. You cite all this lack of evidence as reason to not believe the official story yet you provide no evidence to support your alternative. All you have is speculation.

In other words, you want everybody to be hyper-critical of the official story yet believe a theory based on nothing but wild speculation from conspiracy and paranoia.

Liquid super thermite paint that gets thought up and created in no time and then unnoticed by professional workman already painting, Bob? Covert black ops planting explosives in skyscrapers?

Let you want me to think that not finding black boxes is odd?

"In other words, you want everybody to be hyper-critical of the official story yet believe a theory based on nothing but wild speculation from conspiracy and paranoia."

Polls show the majority of Americans do not believe the 9-11 Commission gave us the real story and want a more in depth, less politically biased, less biased to protect certain foreign governments (Saudi Arabia) investigation.
The only real question is why would someone not want to know the real truth??

I said no *viable* alternatives. You cite all this lack of evidence as reason to not believe the official story yet you provide no evidence to support your alternative. All you have is speculation.

#33 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

No evidence? Have you ever read anything about 911? Ever?

Here is an eyewitness account of explosions before the planes hit.

I don't believe they gave us the "real" story. I think they omitted things to hide the US government's ineptness.

There are holes in the official story. But way less holes with more real evidence than any other alternative I've heard.

No evidence?

----

Yes, Bob, no evidence. What evidence do you have that Silverman used liquid super thermite primer? Anything physical like purchase orders, shipping records, etc?

Again, Bob, your "evidence" is just the holes on the official story.

How do *know* that...

"Silverman allows a small group of black ops--either from the US or Isrealis--to plant some explosives in critical areas of his buildings."

What's the evidence of that?

What evidence do you have that Silverman used liquid super thermite primer? Anything physical like purchase orders, shipping records, etc?

#38 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag

There is evidence of thermite at the building. If not Silverman, then someone else. As to purchase orders, etc, even I could get around that if I were Silverman. What---you think he went to the thermite store and bought some with his credit card? How about if the thermite were supplied by the Isrealis? You deny there are viable alternatives, but when faced with reality, you deny deny deny. How about the 911 commission saying their report was based on government lies? I still haven't seen your links proving the government story, or any viable response to not finding the black boxes even when there was an eyewitness to one of the boxes being found. Deny deny deny.

Again, Bob, your "evidence" is just the holes on the official story.

How could there be holes in any story that was true?

How do *know* that...

"Silverman allows a small group of black ops--either from the US or Isrealis--to plant some explosives in critical areas of his buildings."

What's the evidence of that?

In the links above, there are several eyewitness accounts of explosions before the planes hit of explosions before the plane hit. There is a video of an explosion being heard after the plane hit. There are several reports of secondary explosions. The firefighters describe a controlled demolition.

I posted those links at 12:34---you rsponded at 12:35--12:39--and 12:42. You didn't even look at the links. As an American, you should have looked into 911 yourself, instead of just blindly believing whatever the government says.

#39 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

If not Silverman, then someone else.

It's YOUR theory, Bob. You said he used liquid super thermite primer and had workman switch to use that.

If you don't have any evidence, then it's nothing but speculation based on conspiracy and paranoia. That's not a viable alternative.

I heard Elvis and Jim Morrison teamed up with Jim Henson and George Lucas and blew the building up on some studio set and that's what we saw. The real buildings and planes vanished in thin air thanks to David Copperfield. I have no evidence but that has to a viable alternative cause the official story has holes in it.

In the links above, there are several eyewitness accounts of explosions before the planes hit of explosions before the plane hit. There is a video of an explosion being heard after the plane hit. There are several reports of secondary explosions. The firefighters describe a controlled demolition.

----

Reports of explosions = silverman allowing Israeli or US black ops (small group) to plant explosives.

How do you know it was black ops? How do you know it was Israeli or US? How do you know silverman knew?

See, Bob, you want me to look critically at the official story. I do find holes. Never argued differently

Yet, when I look critically at the alternative you gave me, I find bigger holes and no proof. When I ask you about them, all you do is deflect saying the official story isn't true and here are the reasons why.

The official story while having holes is more credible than your alternative.

It's YOUR theory, Bob. You said he used liquid super thermite primer and had workman switch to use that.

It is a viable alternative, which you denied existed. There is evidence of thermite. What is your explanation from the governments view?

If you don't have any evidence, then it's nothing but speculation based on conspiracy and paranoia. That's not a viable alternative.

There is evidence of thermite as shown. What is the governments explanation. I am still not seeing your links to prove your point.

I heard Elvis and Jim Morrison teamed up with Jim Henson and George Lucas and blew the building up on some studio set and that's what we saw. The real buildings and planes vanished in thin air thanks to David Copperfield. I have no evidence but that has to a viable alternative cause the official story has holes in it.

Your deflection is an insult to every American, and the families who lost loved ones on 911 who seek the truth about 911.

Here is a link to 230+ of such people, and engineers, pilots, architects, intelligence service, law enforcement, and more. Add that to the 911 Commission saying their own report was based on government lies.

Reports of explosions = silverman allowing Israeli or US black ops (small group) to plant explosives.

How do you know it was black ops? How do you know it was Israeli or US? How do you know silverman knew?

#43 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know that Silverman planted the explosives, or the US, or the Israelis. I do know the explosions occurred, and there is video evidence. I simply offerred a viable explanation, which yuou denied existed. What is your explanation for the explosions?

Anything physical like purchase orders, shipping records, etc?

For the record, the recipe for thermite is no big secret and the materials to make it can be purchased off of the internet.

the lack of purchase orders is insignificant.

It is a viable alternative, which you denied existed

----

It's not viable because you have no proof it happened.

When I say I want a viable alternative, I mean I want an alternative with evidence backing it up.

For the record, the recipe for thermite is no big secret and the materials to make it can be purchased off of the internet.

the lack of purchase orders is insignificant.

----

Right, then you did it.

What is your explanation for the explosions?

#46 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-10 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have not seen the video you reference Bob, but I can tell you that the energy stored in steel beams or concrete beams when released instantaneously under catastrophic failure can definitely appear and sound explosive. I have tested concrete cylinders and beams and steel beams. They "explode" when they fail under loading.

7000 psi concrete or 10000 psi steel - strong stuff with a lot of potential energy. Look at this link on stored energy and see the comparison of gasoline to dynamite. Jet fuel would be even higher.

#51 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2009-12-10 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag

I understand your point, however, it doesn't explain explosions before the planes hit.Check out the video links in post #36 that relate to eyewitness reports of explosions before the planes hit.

As to the explosions after the planes hit, these explosions were not accomanied by any apparent collapse of the structure, which would indicate that they were weakening the structure, not caused by pressure. It the beams were exploding because of pressure, the pressure would have continued after the support beam was gone and shown signs of collapse.

When I say I want a viable alternative, I mean I want an alternative with evidence backing it up.

#49 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag

Why would you ask for such a thing when it has been provided, and you failed to even look at it. Evidence is the 911 commission says their report was based on government lies. Evidence of thermite explosives where some should be found. Evidence that Ted Olson lied about the phone call he says he received from his wife on the day she died.

I have still not seen any links provided by you that explain anything.

Jet fuel would be even higher.

#51 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2009-12-10 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jet fuel is kerosene.

Why would you ask for such a thing when it has been provided

----

Round and round we go. You give me an alternative but yet have no proof. Your alternative was specific. I asked for proof on said specifics you gave and then you said those specifics might not have happened.

You criticize the official story because the evidence doesn't match or there's lack of proof yet you offer NO evidence to your alternative story.

Official story:
Lack of proof = not true

Alt story:
Lack of proof = true

I'll look at an alternative if it has evidence backing it. So far, none has been given with evidence.

Here's the one part I can't get past when it's alleged that the crash of Flight 77 into the Pentagon did not occur:

How could Barbara Olsen just "disappear" as she was a well-known tv commentator and recognizable to many people. Someone -- somewhere -- would have seen her by now.

Even if Olson agreed to disappear and went into hiding, how about the other passengers? Where are they?

And if Flight 77 was not hijacked as alleged, then why did the plane crash?

Or are you all saying Flight 77 never crashed into the Pentagon at all.

And again -- where is Barbara Olson?

I'm so confused.

Got to run. Back later,

Per Jesse's show last night (at the end), they stated that the terrorists were in the cockpit at take-off, which is why they won't release the black boxes from the WTC site. Seems that could also be the reason for the doors on flight 77 - no need to open the doors when in the air if the terrorists were already in the cockpit at takeoff.

Boob,

I know I have called you crazy in the past and you can rest asured that you are still nuts.

Fact is that flt. 77 was a American Airlines Boeing 757. There never has been any type of indicator that is detected by iether of the black boxes (Flight Data Recorder (FDR) or the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR)).

Prior to 9/11 there were simple basic latches on the flight deck door that could easily be forced open. Now these doors include an electric strike and a solenoid. The solenoid locks the door secure and can only be opend with a swith 3 position switch from the pilots station or from a keypad from the outside.

And guess what? Still, nothing is recorded on either the FRD or the CVR to determine if the door was open or not.

Really Boob, you should stop listening to Jessie. He is every bit as crazy as you are.

should read with a 3 position switch

You criticize the official story because the evidence doesn't match or there's lack of proof yet you offer NO evidence to your alternative story.

Official story:
Lack of proof = not true

Why don't you post your"proof"---how many times do I have to ask?

Alt story:
Lack of proof = true

The links I provided, and the eyewitness testimony are not proof to you? Why not? What do you call proof? Even the FBI doesn't pin 911 on bin Laden---where is your proof he was the one who planted the explosivers and put the thermite in the buildings?

I'll look at an alternative if it has evidence backing it. So far, none has been given with evidence.

No, you won't look at anything---proof is you haven't looked at anything.

#55 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fact is that flt. 77 was a American Airlines Boeing 757. There never has been any type of indicator that is detected by iether of the black boxes (Flight Data Recorder (FDR) or the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR)).

Link? What is your position on the black boxes that weren't found for any of the flights? What do you think happened to them? Maybe all you can do is post unsubstantiated "facts" and call people names. Seems like it so far.

Prior to 9/11 there were simple basic latches on the flight deck door that could easily be forced open. Now these doors include an electric strike and a solenoid. The solenoid locks the door secure and can only be opend with a swith 3 position switch from the pilots station or from a keypad from the outside.

Link? Why do I have to ask? First time blogging?

And guess what? Still, nothing is recorded on either the FRD or the CVR to determine if the door was open or not.

They never found the black box--how do you know? Link to the CVR data.

Really Boob, you should stop listening to Jessie. He is every bit as crazy as you are.

Really dUmMy, you should stop believing everything the government puts out. You are every bit the sheeple your posts make you out to be.

#58 | Posted by sickoflibs at 2009-12-10 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

How could Barbara Olsen just "disappear" as she was a well-known tv commentator and recognizable to many people. Someone -- somewhere -- would have seen her by now.

#56 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-10 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

No one knows what happened to Barbara Olsen---what is known is she never made those calls to Ted. He lied. WHY?

I'd rather have a car antenna than a commercial plane on a suicide mission any day. Even a rock or a club.

--The Terrorists

No one knows what happened to Barbara Olsen ---what is known is she never made those calls to Ted. He lied. WHY?

#62 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-12-10 04:43 PM

Okay, then let's suppose she didn't make those calls and Ted Olsen was lying.

Then you are at least admitting she was on Flight 77 and that her plane did actually crash into the Pentagon -- something which I believe happened.

ONE person (such as Barabara Olsen) even though a media figure and well-known, might have been able to make herself disappear should she have never taken that flight, but NOT an entire airplane full of passengers.

Maybe they're all on a mysterious island somewhat removed from space and time.

Bob,

If the official story isn't true, what happened and what solid proof (not speculation) can you provide that backs that?

BuffaloBob --

No one knows what happened to Barbara Olsen---what is known is she never made those calls to Ted. He lied. WHY?

WHY would Ted Olsen lie? Who knows.

Here's a few other possibilitie, unrelated to any conspiracy theory, as to why Ted Olsen might lie --

If Olsen's wife was on board Flight 77 on 9-11 -- but she never phoned him on her cell phone -- then it may be possible he only wanted to draw a little fame his way and just made up the entire story about her calling him on her cell phone.

OR maybe his wife did call him but she never stated all those details about the hijackers which he said she told him so he decided to embellish what was said during the phone call just to grab some attention for himself.

OR, because it was Ted Olsen's 61st birthday on 9-11, he started celebrating early and he was so drunk and couldn't rememember what the hell he heard on the phone or if she even called him at all! : )

possibilitie = possibilities

If the official story isn't true, what happened and what solid proof (not speculation) can you provide that backs that?

#66 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's why we need an investigation. How should I know what really happened? What I know is that the government story isn't true as shown by the evidence. I believe the FBI found all 4 black boxes, and is lying about it. Do I have proof? No. But I don't think it is possible for all 4 to disappear. Even if squashed flat, they would still have been found, and there is an eyewitness willing to testify that he saw one of the boxes taken away by the FBI. I'd like to put Bush on the stand and see what he has to say. Cheney too, and some FBI guys and more. I think lie detector tests are in order. What really happened--I don't know---I just know The country has been lied to by its government. The 911 Commission concurs.

.. Boy on Flight 77 is lectured by military father beforehand about dying who subsequently takes a 'rare day off' from working in same area of Pentagon that son's plane will later crash into. (MSNBC) ..
#7 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-12-09 07:30 PM

Can you provide me any information on this? It appears that he could be complicit in the murder of his own child. Certain Pentagon employees are vastly different creatures, it would appear.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 03:55 PM - excellent find!

#61 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Boob,

My guess would be that the black boxes were burned crushed and simply destroyed.

As far as my knowledge on what is recorded on the black boxes. I am an A&P Mechanic with 25 years of experience. The documentation that backs up what I am saying is called 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manuals. Believe it or not, the manuals actually explain how the airplane works. Unless maybe, the manuals were changed by the Government to help hide the truth. hhhhmmmmmmm

I actually cant post the manuals due to property rights so you are just going to have to take my word for it. I am as sure that unlike you, most people will realize that I know what I am speaking about.

One of the boxes (CVR) records all transmissions as well as conversation in the flight deck. The other black box (FDR) records all of the flight profile data of the aircraft. i.e., flight control positions, some engine data, altitude, air speed angle of attack, etc.

As I said before Boob, neither of the black boxes record the position of the flight deck door. They also don't tell how much coffee is left in the coffee pot or how many times the toilet was flushed. But please do keep going with your crazy thoughts. Maybe one day you can also get a show on T.V. just like your idol Jessie Ventura.

#72 | Posted by sickoflibs at 2009-12-10 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

When you learn how to talk to someone without namecalling, maybe I'll respond to your links. Until then, kindly fuck off. Your opinion is meaningless to me. I got as far as the black boxes getting crushed and destroyed. My response is---get a box made of titanium, paint it orange with high temperature paint, and make it disappear. Then get back to me.

Can you provide me any information on this? It appears that he could be complicit in the murder of his own child. Certain Pentagon employees are vastly different creatures, it would appear.

#71 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2009-12-10 08:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know anything about this boy. However, many parents have been known to kill their children. If this is the case here, I would check on insurance on the boys life.

Bob,

I provided you legit and real input and of course you dont want to hear that. No I cant explain everything that went on and I am sure that there was data kept out of the official report. However, you have a need to see a conspiracy in everything. It doesnt matter what material the boxes are made of. Everything can be destroyed and I would consider that fire, heat and complete destruction of those buildings falling in on themselves could do it.

The components inside of the blackboxes are not made of indestructible material. I doubt that they would have been of any use if they were found. Its nothing more than a hard drive and the older ones were actually a type of a tin tape.

Consider this. Do you have any idea how many people would have had to be involved in a cover up like what you are suggesting? Think about it, Bush could not keep shit secret, there is no way that this could have been a Govt coverup. Just to many people willing to run at the mouth these days, not to mention the ease of getting information out.

If you would actually think about things in reality, and stop looking for conspiracy, people would probably not give you so much shit. Face it, you are an easy target and you do bring it on yourself.

Everything can be destroyed and I would consider that fire, heat and complete destruction of those buildings falling in on themselves could do it.

You simply disregard any evidence you don't like. As I stated earlier. Get a box--paint it orange with heat resistant paint, burn it, neat it, do anything you like to it until it disappears---then do it 4 times, and get back to me with your story of how the people who saw you with the box are lying.

The boxes were designed to withstand more than buildiongs falling on them, and there is a witness to the FBI finding one of the boxes. As for the number of people required to keep the secret--how many people knew of the Manhatten project? Facts are, people ARE speaking out---people like you ignore them.

#75 | Posted by sickoflibs at 2009-12-10 10:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"how many people knew of the Manhatten project?"

My father-in-law, for one. But they compartmentalized the information - he didn't know what exactly he was working on until after the fact. He knew it was secret, and kept him from being cannon fodder in Europe - other than that, no.

...it was Ted Olsen's 61st birthday on 9-11....

I wasn't making a joke either. Ted Olsen was born on September 11, 1940.

But they compartmentalized the information - he didn't know what exactly he was working on until after the fact. He knew it was secret, and kept him from being cannon fodder in Europe - other than that, no.

#77 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2009-12-11 12:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

The same thing could have happened here. The painters who painted on the thermite might have thought it was just primer. They had months of preparation, and the explosives could easily have been planted by a few people.

I wasn't making a joke either. Ted Olsen was born on September 11, 1940.

#78 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-11 12:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

That doesn't excuse the lie about the phone calls from his wife on the day she died. No records from her cell phone or from the plane. No records from the office of Ted Olsen have been produced. Olsen refuses to identify the secretary that received the collect calls. Why would his wife even try to call collect to the office when she had Olsens private number and had used it to call him earlier in the day. You can't make collect calls with a cell phone or with a seat phone, and there were no seat phones on her flight. In addition Olsen said he tyold her about the other hijackings and that the planes had been flown into the Towers. Her flight had a large number of military personel on board---I doubt they would sit quietly by when only five men with boxcutters were holding them. The story of "Arabs with boxcutters" comes from Olsen, the first finger pointing, and it was a lie---on the day she died. Olsen should be put on a lie detector.

"However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?"

Global warming, Boob...the excessively high temperatures caused by global warming created condensation which shorted out the conacts so that the door indicated closed although it really wasn't.
Global warming also caused mold to attack all the paper records and film related to the incident.
Besides, it's possible that global warming in Australia has caused that independent researcher and computer programmer you quoted to become delusional. How about you? Have you been out in the sun a lot lately?

My guess would be that the black boxes were burned crushed and simply destroyed.

How convenient that is.

I don't think I've ever heard a report of a crash where the black boxes have never, ever been found in the wreckage.

Strange.

Disappearing plane debris. Disappearing black boxes.

That doesn't excuse the lie about the phone calls from his wife on the day she died. No records from her cell phone or from the plane. No records from the office of Ted Olsen have been produced. Olsen refuses to identify the secretary that received the collect calls...

#79 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

...OR, because it was Ted Olsen's 61st birthday on 9-11, he started celebrating early and he was so drunk and couldn't rememember what the hell he heard on the phone or if she even called him at all! : )

#67 | Posted by CalifChris

And I now say "uninformed" because, since your post, I've done some more research on the Barbara Olsen phone calls this morning and with regard to this one particular issue re the happenings on 9-11, I'll have to agree with you -- Ted Olsen was lying. For Barbara Olsen to have even used a phone (whether cell or airphone) on her flight would have been difficult/impossible due to the following:

1. Cell phones could not be used from airliners until 2004 as the technology did not exist;

2. To use an airphone from the plane one needs a credit card and Ted Olsen said his wife "forgot" her credit cards --highly unlikely for a woman who is a lawyer and on a business trip to "forget" to take her credit cards with her; and

3. The FBI and American Airlines have both said the Ted and Barbara Olsen conversation NEVER took place.

The biggest factor, and which has raised the most suspicion for me, was when I learned from you that the information Ted Olsen claimed was told to him by his wife in that phone call was the FIRST TIME anyone had ever brought up the "Arabs using boxcutters" scenario. THAT really got me.

I honestly thought Ted Olsen had already heard about "Arabs using boxcutters" on the other flights prior to his alleged conversation with his wife on Flight 77. I never knew that bit of info had ORIGINATED with Ted Olsen.

That one piece of the puzzle on 9-11 was extremely important as the "Arabs with boxcutters" became the basis for the explanation from the Bush Administration as to how the hijackings on 9-11 were able to take place.

(continued in #83 below)

BuffloBob -

(continued from post #82)

Besides, I will agree with you about the non-existence of the phone call due to the fact I am mostly a very "law and order" type of individual and hold our FBI in high esteem and even our FBI said there was only ONE call to Ted Olsen from his wife but that that one phone call was never connected. (See link below.)

Yes, BuffloBob, Ted Olsen should be required to take a lie detector test. But, unfortunately, both you and I know it will never happen. And, unfortunately, both you and I know why it won't.

#83 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-12-11 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would like to see Bush, Cheney, and several dozen other people taking lie detectors also. I'd like to know the REAL reason Bush sat thee for seven minutes---why he said--twice---that he saw the first plane hit the WTC when there was no video until the next day. Why the secret service agents didn't immediately take him to a safe place, since his location was well known to terrorists. His continued presence was a danger to everyone around him in case of a coordinating attack. Why he REALLY didn't want an investigation into 911.

Yes, the reason is obvious why such an investigation or lie detectors will never be applied---apathy on the part of American citizens. People like Mystery Toy, Dxlinger, Vernon, Pirate, Sick of Libs, Wisgod, and hundreds of thousands of others just like them block any investigation. There should be a huge march on Washington, but it will never happen.

It's worth saying again.... And they think birthers are nuts.

The official story while having holes is more credible than your alternative.

#44 | Posted by Pirate at 2009-12-10 01:10 PM | Reply |

My problem with your argument is this.

You expect Bob to have all the answers. And because he doesn't, you assume he must be wrong on all counts.

Taking Bob to task for unfounded theories is one thing. But the reality is your going after him for something a bit different.

Your stance has been the evidence is crap because the story sucks. And the story does in fact suck.

The more troublesome thing to me, is with so many tidbits of contradictory evidence how did they conclude this investigation?!?!

I think Jesse and Bob should kidnap Ted Olsen and waterboard him.

What about Renee May who called her mother at 9:12am from flight 77? (page 9 of 9/11 Report).

Buzz, it really doesn't matter. Cel phone towers are/were omni-directional, Barbara Olson could have borrowed another passenger's credit card, she may have memorized her credit card number. The simple fact of the matter is that Ted Olson misspoke and said she called him collect, he was obviously under duress when he said that. Hell, my dad still calls the refrigerator the ice-box even though it hasn't technically been an ice-box for sixty years.

Duress should be distress. Apologies etc.

#70 redlight
This is all I have since the link is no longer good.

9/11 - Bernard Brown Jr., a young passenger on Flight 77 that was participating in a field trip, gets a lecture from his father about dying before his flight. His father tells him "don't be afraid to die because we all are going to die someday." Bernard's father, Navy Chief Petty Officer Bernard Brown Sr., takes a "rare day off" from work that day to play golf. Bernard's dad works at the Pentagon. He works in the same wing of the Pentagon that was hit by hijacked Flight 77.

Terror's youngest victims; Unspeakable heartbreak for families of students killed on American Airlines Flight 77

"His father, a Navy chief petty officer, says he sat his son down on the morning of Sept. 11, and had a serious talk with him about dangers he might encounter on the trip.
"To be honest totally honest we talked about death," he says. "And I just told him, Don't be afraid.' Just because the events that they were going to do were pretty dangerous. Just listen to what the people tell you, and the instructions, you'll be all right. You'll be fine. He said Daddy, I'm scared,' and I said, hey, don't be scared, don't be afraid to die. Because we all are going to die someday.'"
Bernard's mom Sinata Brown went to work. Her husband Bernard took a rare day off to play golf. Had he not he would have been in his office at the Pentagon when the plane slammed in at 9:43.
Tragically, his own son's memorial is not the only one Bernard Brown expects to attend.
That's because Flight 77 the flight carrying Bernard Brown's son actually crashed into the wing of the Pentagon where he works. Few of his colleagues survived." -MSNBC (09/25/01) [Reprinted at: wildfuryx]

What about Renee May who called her mother at 9:12am from flight 77? (page 9 of 9/11 Report).

#87 | Posted by Beachbuzz at 2009-12-11 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

What about her? What's your point?

Cel phone towers are/were omni-directional, Barbara Olson could have borrowed another passenger's credit card, she may have memorized her credit card number. The simple fact of the matter is that Ted Olson misspoke and said she called him collect, he was obviously under duress when he said that. Hell, my dad still calls the refrigerator the ice-box even though it hasn't technically been an ice-box for sixty years.

#88 | Posted by Jay at 2009-12-11 06:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

He wasn't under duress. He said it later on Larry King Live too. In addition, there are no records of any call to Ted Olson. If she used her cel phone, there would be a record of the call. If she used a seatback phone, there would be a record of the call. If she borrowed somebody's credit card, there wpould be a record of the charge. If she used her own memorized card number, there would be a record of the charge. There is no record of any call to Ted Olson under any circumstances.