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An endorsement from the former DNC chairman could prove to be a big boost for reform's prospects in the Senate. A leading progressive voice and (more importantly) a respected thinker on health care matters, Dean has already played a large role in shepherding progressive support for the latest round of compromises. Sources in the Senate say Dean was the one who pushed the idea of expanding Medicare as a trade-off for watering down the public plan.

"I'm disposed towards this," he said. "It was part of my platform when I ran for president. But look at this. It makes sense. Why have two bureaucracies, including one who hasn't run this before [the Department of Health and Human Services]... when you can use Medicare?"

It wasn't just the policy of the Senate's version of health care reform that Dean liked. It was the politics. Democratic leadership is set to allow those 55 to 64-year-olds in high-risk insurance pools the option of buying Medicare coverage beginning in 2010 (three years before a proposed public option would come into existence). Which is vital for Democrats, he stressed.

"Because you have got to have people sign up for this thing in 2010 for political purposes. Otherwise we will take it on the chin in the election," said Dean. "If people are actually in insurance they can say, wait a second I'm on this insurance and haven't been brought before the death panel... Actuality is always the best antidote to propaganda."

There are aspects of the bill that Dean lamented and those which he hoped the Senate would improve. The former DNC chairman said that there need to be additional subsidies for those between the ages of 55 and 64 who want to buy into Medicare. He also worried that not enough regulatory reform will be put in place to compel serious changes in the private market. More than anything else, he was concerned that those under 55 will be left without sufficient options for insurance coverage.

"My view is that you try to convince more people as the process goes on that access should be broadened out," he said.

And then there was the question of whether even this type of reform would have the votes to pass. Dean said he did not expect Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) to back the bill even though Democrats have jettisoned the public plan. Though he did say he thought conservative members of his own party would be on board.

"I have kept very close tabs on it and have been very straightforward with some of the senators about not getting hung out to dry on this," he said. "And I don't think they will. I don't think that is their intention."

C'mon Dems, wrap this up!

There's the fucking kiss of Death...

So, for all those (101) who insisted that they should get the same kind of insurance as lawmakers get, well, here ya go.

And for those who wanted to expand the single-payer Medicare system, ditto.

The devil is in the details, of course, but if the OPM has regulatory teeth (which is debatable) and if the Medicare premiums are lower than private insurance, but satisfactory to pay doctors and hospitals, (also debatable) then this could work.

Yeah, the Doctor who got Obama and a Dem Congress elected is the kiss of death for supporting health care.

Cheesehead hat too tight?

"Yeah, the Doctor who got Obama and a Dem Congress elected is the kiss of death for supporting health care."

Succotash? No way.

You know Captain Payback, you have posted many things that are just plain wacko in the koolaid sense of things BUT this one tops them all.

That may be the most ignorant and unintentionally funny thing I have heard or seen this year.

ACORN, Biden and Van Jones included.

Yeeeeeeeee HHAAAAAAAAAWWWWW!

Yeah, the Doctor who got Obama and a Dem Congress elected is the kiss of death for supporting health care.

Cheesehead hat too tight?

#5 | Posted by Corky

Whatever they're paying you to look this stupid isn't enough.

Niceville, who is banned from this blog as I understand it, has about as much credibility as a Teabagger ..... oh wait.... he is a Teabagger, just not political.

I see you and Niceville are joined at the hip, there, Wissy..... or joined somewhere....

Whatever, Corky. Just because nobody else is paying attention to your thread is no reason to get wee wee'd up.

I see that the idea of Dems actually coming together on the health care reform that Americans want and that the country needs to halt the 7 to 20 percent annual increases is really chapping their collective asses.

This is almost as good as a black Muslim Socialist President and Hillary Fucking Clinton as Sec of State, roflmfao!!

Americans want? You need to find your TV remote.

I see that the idea of Dems actually coming together on the health care reform that Americans want and that the country needs to halt the 7 to 20 percent annual increases is really chapping their collective asses

If you think that what will get passed and signed will actually stop the annual increases I want what you are smoking.

Good grief, follow the money.

This isn't about reforming healthcare or helping the middle class, it is about looking like they are doing that all the while selling out the middle class for a few million in campaign support.

If we governed by poll, you'd be speaking German now.

#13 Cynical much?

Some are and some aren't. Some will vote for public financing of campaigns when it comes up, some won't, because some don't care for spending most of their time begging or being bribed, and some don't mind it at all.

#15, give me a reason to not be cynical.

Because it is self-defeating behavior?

Change in Washington is slow and incremental at best, and retro at worst, unless you have a good sized nuke.

And then it's just messy.

"#15, give me a reason to not be cynical."

I get cynical too. I didn't post here for about a week recently when I was feeling that way. The one reason I don't want to stay that way though is because that is exactly what the right wants us to do. That's why they pay posters to attack, attack, attack every progressive idea. If we become cynical are don't participate they win.

That's why they pay posters to attack, attack, attack every progressive idea.
Posted by danni

Who, where, when and how?

Rogers - I think that Wisgod is really "Niceville" in disguise. Please ban him so that I'm not uncomfortable. Thanks, sweetie!

--Corky

#20 | Posted by cookfish | Flag: Craves Affection, Eats and Drinks Anything, Nearly Housebroken

#20 FF!!!!

See Doc? That is funny. Of course no where near as funny as posting a dumb fucking picture as a retort, but funny none the less.

Sorry, I don't agree. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, see. And you're too shortsighted to be taken on your own word as a judge. Your real problem, Wissy, is you jump too much for anyone to believe the needle doesn't hurt.

#20 | Posted by cookfish

ban him,.,,,,, ban him,,,,

I am not comfortable

Big baby

That's OK Doc. Someday review it when your sober and let me know if you change your mind.

Revised plan for public assfucking.

What this is is a calculated attack on medicare.

step 1: forget the public option altogether by bribing ARP by allowing seniors to 'buy' in early at a rate that only the extremely rich can afford anyway, while cutting medicare across the board.

step 2: companies get to dump their private coverage.

step 3: extend the 'buy' in to everyone while eroding what is covered gradually until medicare is effectively gone.

Both parties are in on it.

Pigs at the trough.

The public should be mass impeaching their congressmen as we speak.

This is a fucking insult.

#26 | Posted by wisgod

You must look ridiculous on game day, wearing an oversized sponge cheesehead hat and sucking your thumb.

This is a fucking insult.

No.

A fucking insult is when you're banging some chick from behind and you ask her "Who's your daddy?"---only to have her look back and calmly reply, "Oh, you don't know him."

Anyone notice what mindless assholes Wisgod, Chickenrancher and Cookfish all are? They don't contribute anything. Their only mode of comment is insult. Frankly, even though the posts are dumpable per se, I think the DR would be a better site if all three were permanently exiled.

(Now I will await their snotty insulting response. LOL)

I'm sorry, cupcake.

BUT WAIT

nelson said abortion must have right 'ban' language and no govt option and any dupe should be able to see this is just a dem lie and cover for back door govt option

SO senator nelson..going to be a goddamn democrat liar like the rest of them????????????

I've got $100.00 that says Moder8 is an old maid.

Anyone notice what mindless assholes Wisgod, Chickenrancher and Cookfish all are? Their only mode of comment is insult.
#31 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-12-10 11:10 AM | Reply

Shouldn't you be playing on your daughter's facebook?
Was that you, or some other limpwrist?

And while the public option for insurance coverage seemed, essentially, dropped from the legislative language, Dean had a positive take on the Senate's alternative approach.

And they're expanding Medicare?

They're actually kind of moving in the direction I thought they should.

What a useless shmuck. What about those under 55 who can not get Health Care insurance. More people trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Unfuckingbelievable.

Larry

#20 | Posted by cookfish at 2009-12-10 10:30 AM | Reply | Flag: Still upset that banned girlfriend got caught here again.... no "pussy" again tonight

I thought Moder8 wasn't allowed to post until she cleaned her underwear?

-They're actually kind of moving in the direction I thought they should.

Same here. The watered down public option in the current Bills is less attractive now than these ideas.

The devil is in the details, of course, but if the OPM has regulatory teeth (which is debatable) and if the Medicare premiums are lower than private insurance, but satisfactory to pay doctors and hospitals, (also debatable) then this could work.

#4 | Posted by Corky

I've got $100.00 that says Moder8 is an old maid.

#34 | Posted by wisgod at

actually Ive got a hundred that says moder8 is a man but has a flap over his croutch to keep the dust out.

okay okay

so it wasnt the best attempt at humor...

read anything by corky lately??????? (snicker snicker)

-a man but has a flap over his croutch to keep the dust out.

Projection is often really funny.

Democrats.....

"Will you listen to the elderly who absorb 40 percent of medical care and not to the AARP, which you have bought by way of a promise to eliminate Medicare Advantage?

Will you listen to the doctors of America, two to one in opposition, and not to the AMA, which you have bludgeoned into submission via your threats of reimbursement cuts?

Will you stop to examine how, as Democrats, you can vote to slice $500 billion from Medicare and cut home healthcare? Former comrades-in-arms, former party-mates, do not commit party-cide by passing this bill!

Is this to be your epitaph? That you put all healthcare under government control? That your legacy is to be the waiting list to see a doctor? That the memorial to your public service is to be the denial of care at a bureaucrat's whim?

Many of you must know that you are sacrificing your careers. Can Blanche Lincoln, Byron Dorgan, Harry Reid and others really believe they will return?

Can any of you believe you will remain in the majority after you have so flouted the obvious will of your constituents?

Why does this pied piper have such power over you? His approval is sinking in every poll at a pace unprecedented for presidents. If he promises you judgeships, ambassadorships, Cabinet posts or other patronage to enliven your retirement, can you doubt that there is but a two-year term in the offing?

And think about what the deficit you are creating will do to your country. The nation you have already burdened with so much debt that you know and we all know that inflating the currency is the only way out! In your souls you must know that in five years and 10 years and 15vyears, it will be the skyrocketing cost of the system you now put in place that will animate future deficits. You must realize that the CBO estimates are a fiction created by 10 years of taxing divided by six years of spending.

What has gotten into you? Where are your senses? What happened to your instincts?

Are you all to line up and drink the Kool-Aid, march off the cliff in lockstep? Charge into the cannon?"

#44 Ultimate Whining Contest Winner

The devil is in the details, of course, but if the OPM has regulatory teeth (which is debatable) and if the Medicare premiums are lower than private insurance, but satisfactory to pay doctors and hospitals, (also debatable) then this could work.

#4 | Posted by Corky

I'll be honest, I'm a little nervous about the content of the second half regarding pay. If Medicare doesn't pay, hospitals get hurt, and not just the wealthy doctors (but also the lowly healthcare IT grunts like myself). But I praise the decision to do this reform within an already existing entity, to not create a massive new bureaucracy on an already bloated government.

By DICK MORRIS

That's all you need to know about KBM's link.
Laughable.

and yet when he was a whore for clinton,,,Morris's word was the gospel........

Morris's word only gospel only when if he's discussing podophilia.

#46 agreed

As i said.

This is bullshit non-reform.

Pay off the insurance mafia.

Offer nothing of real value.

Cut medicare.

Pigs at the trough.

#49

OK.... Ultimate Whining and Toe Sucking Contest Winner

I am tempted to post a thread showing the last 20 posts of WisGod. They are ALL snotty. They add nothing to any discussion. The guy is a leech. A parasite. Judging from his posts, the only reason he logs on to the DR is to be an asshole. (Again, now I'll await as he, and his fellow rightwingers respond by way of insult.)

Shawn gets an offensive flag from Me for post 51. KIDDING that is sooo true. They don't care about the poor only the uber rich fucks. Same shit different day. NEWSWORTHY.

Larry

#49

OK.... Ultimate Whining and Toe Sucking Contest Winner

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-10 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Shouldn't that be post number 48 instead of 49??

Moder8, remember the old glass house thing? Read your own posts before you continue to whine.

I have to agree with MODER8 on that last post.

Actually Fishpaw, you are completely wrong. Review the threads I post. I have posted several just in the past week. And regardless of whether you agree or disagree with my positions, review my posted opinions on wide variety of topics.

Me no post no steenkin' threads.
Me just piss n' moan.
~FishMaw

Nice one cock service

- "...declaring that it met the most fundamental definitions of reform."

Reform, by definition, is an improved change & a synonym of to correct. This is change; improved or corrected? NOT. Where is the tort reform? Where is the intra-state policy writing? Where are the tax breaks for individuals for buying their own policies like business get?

- "...allow consumers between the ages of 55 and 64 to buy Medicare coverage "a big step forward."

So, something that will be bankrupt in less than 10 years can be fixed by adding 19.4 million people to the system?

- "I'm not a fan of the private market, as you know."

Ah, duh?!?! Can you say commie?

- "Because you have got to have people sign up for this thing in 2010 for political purposes. Otherwise we will take it on the chin in the election,"

Well, at least a little honesty. But, this is purely to help the uninsured, right? No politics involved, right?

cock service
#60 | Posted by fishpaw

Try the Yellow Pages under "Escorts - Skanks." Good luck!

So the health care reforms for which we worked so diligently have become the Obama Corporate HMO Revenue Enhancement Act of 2009. I kinda get a sense of how slaves sold "down the river" a couple of centuries ago felt. Third party, anyone? herm

"So, something that will be bankrupt in less than 10 years can be fixed by adding 19.4 million people to the system?"

If they are paying premiums into the system then the answer is clearly yes. Bringing younger people into Medicare is really the only way to save both Medicare and the American economy. We either lower the cost of health care or our economy is going down and Medicare has proven to be the least expensive way to proved health care. The only reason most people don't realize it is because the insurance industry pays for enough media to keep spinning their bull shit.

#63 | POSTED BY HERM

Haven't you heard Herm? Third parties can't win. That's why none of these wingdings will vote for them. Not that they have bad ideas, or would govern poorly, just that they can't win. At least thats the response I got last time I brought it up.

#64 | POSTED BY DANNI
Thats funny. NPR's Planet Money and frequent guests to Bill Moyers, as well as Moyers himself don't agree with your assertion that this plan will cut costs. They must be bought and paid for eh Danni?

I have to agree with MODER8 on that last post.

#57 | Posted by danni

If you expect me to post responses the Lefts George W. Bush nonsense, sorry.

Moder8, Im going to the Deficite Ceiling thread. Let's go, hun.

"Haven't you heard Herm? Third parties can't win. That's why none of these wingdings will vote for them. Not that they have bad ideas, or would govern poorly, just that they can't win. At least thats the response I got last time I brought it up."
#65 | Posted by the_nether

That's the way its explained to me, too.

"NPR's Planet Money and frequent guests to Bill Moyers, as well as Moyers himself don't agree with your assertion that this plan will cut costs. They must be bought and paid for eh Danni?"
#65 | Posted by the_nether

Moyers is about as useful to the Democrats today as is Ralph Nader.

"Haven't you heard Herm? Third parties can't win. That's why none of these wingdings will vote for them. Not that they have bad ideas, or would govern poorly, just that they can't win. At least thats the response I got last time I brought it up."

And what part of it is not still true????
Who was our last president who ran as an independent???
How many in Congress are independent???
When an independent runs he/she pulls votes from whichever side is the closest in philosophy and generally allows the other side to win. Third pardies (such as Ralph Nader) assist those who they are most vehemently opposed to. That is just how it works, I didn't invent the system, don't blame me.

Maybe Dean should spend some time reminding Harry Reid how important this is. Seem's Harry has a busy weekend planned.

So the health care reforms for which we worked so diligently have become the Obama Corporate HMO Revenue Enhancement Act of 2009. I kinda get a sense of how slaves sold "down the river" a couple of centuries ago felt. Third party, anyone? herm

---------

Thanks himself again for not voting for either party since he was in his early 20s.

Pigs at the trough.

So the health care reforms for which we worked so diligently ....

#63 | Posted by herm at 2009-12-10 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

You worked dilligently on health care reforms? Walking unborn babies to their deaths does not count as health care reform HERM. Please continue to overstate your importance on this planet.

"Walking unborn babies"

Coming next week: Flying monkeys.

Extra-dimensional flying monkeys.

So are they still going to take the $500 Billion out to subsidize the poor? If they allow this to happen, there will be less doctors available who WILL take the MEDICARE reimbursment schedule. This lowers the availability of care to the multitude!

As an after thought, the premiums of those already in the program will, of necessity, go UP, simply because we pay 20-25% of the bill plus a co-pay. It aint going to be pretty!

Oh, what the hell, we'll be broke in ten years anyway, anyone up for learning Chinese? How about French - or - German? Indian or Pakistani?

Ignore Cidney's gross rants. He's gung-ho for fetuses, but never pushes for real people.

My third party remark, pure hyperbole, deserves to be ignored. Danni was absolutely correct - third parties help most those they hate most. My point was that Obama backers are still waiting for a crumb. herm

You are wrong herm.

The fact that not voting for coke vs. pepsi sometimes puts another bad bunch in office doesn't make voting for the lesser of 2 better.

It means that people should demand better choices.

Compromise only works when you are winning, and the populace is definitely NOT winning here.

I like Dean, but this is a fucking black box in which a document written by Insurance Companies remains hidden.

"The fact that not voting for coke vs. pepsi sometimes puts another bad bunch in office doesn't make voting for the lesser of 2 better."

What it really means is that you need to actually get involved in the party of your choice and bring it around to the views you believe in. The whole idea of a third party is silly, there is no reason to believe it would be any less or more susceptible to the influence of lobbyists than the parties we have now. If you want real change then take the money out of politics. Federally funded election campaigns with no "contributions" from anyone. That would be real change.

Civilized countries generally have more than two parties. We're stuck between one half-heartedly pulling forward and one pulling backwards as hard as it thinks people will accept. There MUST be more. herm

#64 | Posted by danni

Once again proving your stoopidity. You are either totally ignorant or cannot/refuse to read something before you comment on it.

The portion that the 55-64 yr. olds will pay will not cover the full expense of the program. (read the fuckin' bill).

"Medicare has proven to be the least expensive way to proved health care."

The only reason it is the "least expensive" is because the gov't decides what it will & will not pay for a procedure. WHICH IS PART OF THE PROBLEM. If a procedure costs $1000, but Uncle Sam only pays $500, yeah, it's "less expensive". In reality when the next person, who has private or no insurance, has the same procedure, they end up paying $1500 to make up the difference.
Because the gov't doesn't pay full price for a procedure doesn't mean it doesn't cost what it really costs!!!

How in the world can you not understand this?

THE GOV'T IS THE PROBLEM, not the private sector.

I just cannot believe you are as stoopid as you sound.

"THE GOV'T IS THE PROBLEM, not the private sector."

Yeah, I'm sure the private sector would happily insure those 65 and over for less than what Medicare costs us taxpayers. Not going to ever happen because private insurance for those over 65 would be so expensive few elderly folks would ever be able to afford it. Private insurers are only interested in insuring groups that are profitable like the younger and healthier segments of the population not those who require more health care services, that is the little secret they laugh about every day. Us foolish taxpayers allow them to profit off of our health insurance dollars for our working lives because they pay out very little in health care services during that time but when we get a little older and start requiring more care they dump us on the backs of the taxpayers. It's a win/win for insurance companies and a lose/lose for taxpayers but fortunately for the insurance companies there are millions of Americans as dumb as you.

Think about how dumb the average person is then consider that half of America is even dumber.

In your zeal to defend private insurance you forget one thing, some of us are capable of actual thought and can use simple logic to destroy your stupid arguments.

BTW, I hear Glenn Beck says we should abolish Medicare!!! I sure hope that most Americans hear about that because I think he may find most will be quite angry about him even suggesting such a thing.

Without Medicare seniors wouldn't get coverage. No pvt insurance would dare cover a 75 yr old man who is battling heart disease and takes 8 meds a day. Or basically most any other health issue seniors face.

What it really means is that you need to actually get involved in the party of your choice and bring it around to the views you believe in. The whole idea of a third party is silly, there is no reason to believe it would be any less or more susceptible to the influence of lobbyists than the parties we have now. If you want real change then take the money out of politics. Federally funded election campaigns with no "contributions" from anyone. That would be real change.

---------

Useless. The system is bought.

There is only one real way to tilt the scale back into the people favor: END THE CORPORATE PERSON.

Anything less is a waste of time.

have to agree with MODER8 on that last post.

#57 | Posted by danni at

OH
dont encourage him....lol

BTW, I hear Glenn Beck says we should abolish Medicare!!! I sure hope that most Americans hear about that because I think he may find most will be quite angry about him even suggesting such a thing.

#83 | Posted by danni at 2009-12

first question out of the bag

"I hear glenn beck says"....so did you watch that show and watch all of it or are you repeating shit you may have heard somewhere else because several of the fox people are striking back with the truth through clips and audio of what they REALLY have said

cavuto beat the SHIT out of emailers who accused him of not berating republicans and he went through almost ten examples of him beratting republicans about the bush tarp time

last night orielly FUCKED OVER the law and order asshole producer for the LIES they were spreading about him on the LOWEsT RATED NETWORK.

and beck has done the same..

so the first thing is....did you HEAR that with your own ears and in the proper context??

let me tell you what I HEARD with my 'professionally trained' ears last night on cspan

republicans were in the senate ASKING TO be able to vote on health care and 'move it along'

BUT YET they couldnt because harry reid...AFTER FEAR MONGERING FOR days about FOURTENN MILLION american lose their health care EVERY DAY..

well he says NOW THEY are taking the weekend off

seems that the PIMP landreu in lousianna is havning a fundraiser...

AND THEN MAX BAUCAS..who apparently found time to get away from his "BOUGHT PUSSY" to LIE his ass off about how much the dems have Tried SO HARD to allow the republicans to be a part of this and they just WONT get on board..

so I guess the gop should just BREAK DOWN Those CLOSED DOORS while the dems are fucking us all in the ass???????????????????????????

HOLY SHIT

I just reread my last oouple of posts..

looks like a celisary post with all of the caps and stuff

I do most humbly and sincerely apologize.......

"Paulson will meet with the House Republican Conference behind closed doors in the Capitol at 4 p.m., as an increasing number of GOP lawmakers are voicing doubts about the overall wisdom of the bailout of government sponsored enterprises and the process by which Democratic leaders are crafting the broader housing package that will be used as a vehicle for it."

#83 | Posted by danni at 2009-12

first question out of the bag

"I hear glenn beck says"....so did you watch that show and watch all of it or are you repeating shit you may have heard somewhere else because several of the fox people are striking back with the truth through clips and audio of what they REALLY have said

cavuto beat the SHIT out of emailers who accused him of not berating republicans and he went through almost ten examples of him beratting republicans about the bush tarp time

last night orielly FUCKED OVER the law and order asshole producer for the LIES they were spreading about him on the LOWEsT RATED NETWORK.

and beck has done the same..

so the first thing is....did you HEAR that with your own ears and in the proper context??

#87 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-12-11 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag

Danni is a Moron and you should only expect her to parrot what she has been told, asking her to think is like asking the Boy Wonder to not read a tele prompter

OMG! Howard Dean endorses a compromise between Union thugs on parole and Left wing nutjobs off their meds. Who would have thunk it?