Other Democrats are in a similar bind. One Senate Democrat thinks the bill is bad policy. But last month that same senator joined with all of his fellow Democrats to bring the bill to the floor. The party leadership has made it clear that anyone who votes against health care will have a difficult time passing their own bills in the future.

So the Senate death march continues. Many Democrats have grave misgivings about making the bill a top priority given the economy. But in the age of bloodthirsty partisan bloggers they dare not be fully candid. They can only hope their march doesn't lead them right over the edge of a political cliff next November.

The Chumple quote the Murdoch Street Whore and expects to be taken seriously?

What a tool!!!

The Republican party is dead at it's own hand. Suicide by circular firing squad is not a pretty sight but is sure is entertaining.

Good luck with that Moosefart and the seven dwarts Kabuki theater thing, assholes!!!

2 | Posted by axe at 2009-12-05 10:25 AM | Reply | Flag: HAVE NO FACTUAL REBUTTAL SO........

As always, good seeing that the Left has this in it's quiver.

Now back to Kos and The Ed Show!!

-Axe

they are obsessed with health reform because they want to control you and your vote

I can hear it now: if you vote Republican they will take away your Social Security and your Health Care

"If you vote Republican thay will take away your social security...."

There have been Republicans wanting that since FDR.

I believe that for the Dems it is about control. They want to be able to control prices, votes, and ultimately our lives.

You hear it already, You have to wear a seatbelt or a helmet because when you are hurt society has to pay the bill. When the gov is paying for health care, they will use the same logic to tell us what to eat, how to live etc. Too fat? Need to loose weight or pay more. Having lots of kids, need to pay more. Too much time in the sun, pay more. Blood pressure too high, pay more.

Sure they will not deny coverage but they will attempt to control behavior through taxes (charges).

We has a simple example of how this works here in MI. When they first passed the seatbelt laws. They said that they would only ticket you if they stopped you for some other violation and found that you were not wearing your seatbelt. Now they send out special patrols and conduct roadside checks (roadblocks) to check for seatbelt usage.

This is how it will go with health care if the Dems have their way.

In my mind a more reasonable approach would be to do things that reduce costs. For instance, Tort Reform, Allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, allowing people to pool their insurance, rescind the monopoly exclusion the health insurance companies currently enjoy.

All of these would be "reform" and would reduce costs. They also would not cost the government anything. In other words we would not have to raise taxes to do any of these.

"They believe the liberal base expects them to deliver and will punish them if (WHEN)they don't."

YEAH!

Except, America is a "center right country" (you said so) and every american is a "conservative" (you said so) that was "tricked" into voting for a communist marxist fascist kenyan by the media (you said so).

So in reality, if we are to take your past statements as "fact) ------- there is no such thing as a "liberal base". And if there is one, its much to small to be an election winning majority!

"As always, good seeing that the Left has this in it's quiver."

Kind of makes you 'quiver' with excitement, eh, chapel-boy?

Dems are obsessed because they know America needs it. Republicans don't give a fuck about its citizens getting coverage but the dems do. Chapel isn't a xtian just a partisan retard.

The Dems honestly believe that they'll be getting more stuff for free. Can't blame them for that. It's easier than getting a job.

Democrats aren't the only ones who care about health care reform. A lot of Republicans are hurting because they can't get insurance, are dropped by providers, or are getting hammered by rising costs.

If reform works as successfully as Social Security and Medicare, Obama will be re-elected in a rout.

So you are saying that ultimately health care will ruin furture generations as this current generation comes to an end, sort of like Social Security and Medicare.

Sounds like a plan for failure.

In my mind a more reasonable approach would be to do things that reduce costs. For instance, Tort Reform, Allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, allowing people to pool their insurance, rescind the monopoly exclusion the health insurance companies currently enjoy.

All of these would be "reform" and would reduce costs. They also would not cost the government anything. In other words we would not have to raise taxes to do any of these.

#7 | Posted by sawdust

If the right really wanted any of those things, they would have handled it 7 years ago.

Just as if they were really interested in stopping abortion and not using it as a fund raising seed, they'd have handled it as well.

"Tort Reform" is a new mantra. Most couldn't define it if they had to. But it sounds good.

#14 | Posted by TedBaxter

So, are you saying the things SAWDUST proposed are bad ideas or are you saying you oppose them because they are being suggested as an alternative by your ideological opposition?

I'm just trying to better understand your motivation.

If reform works as successfully as Social Security and Medicare, Obama will be re-elected in a rout.

#12 | Posted by rcade

It won't go into effect until 2013 !!!

You know AFTER the election!

The HC bill is all about power.

Why are Dems obsessed by healthcare? Maybe because unlike selfish rightwing assholes we genuinely care about the well being of 40+ million of our fellow citizens. (I know that type of thinking never occurs to the rightwing mindset.) The fact that rightwingers would even need to ask this question shows how self centered their worldview is.

"The HC bill is all about power." - MUR

It is about power. The more the Dem party can make people reliant on the gov't the better for them.

If my house has a leaky roof I look to repair the roof, not tear down the building. It would appear as though the Dem party wishes to rebuild the home. There are other alternatives which should be considered before such substantial change is adopted.

has no bipartisan support, doesn't seriously tackle soaring costs and will increase insurance premiums

Hope and Change we can believe in.

That explains why the majority of dems support it. They don't have any insurance premiums.

Are you saying that the ice isn't melting? Oh Sorry, wrong thread.

Miseryboy brings up a good point: Notice that all the birthers, 9/11 truthers, GW deniers and teabaggers are also the ones whining about health care reform.

Must be a conspiracy of craziness!!!

That explains why the majority of dems support it. They don't have any insurance premiums.

#20 | Posted by mysterytoy

Conversely, that explains why the majority of cons DON'T support it. They:
1.Are covered by their employers and are happy with it.
2.Have never had to access health care in a major way. Or
3.Have never personally written their health insurance premium checks.

are also the ones whining about health care reform.

#22 | Posted by axe

I'm not whinging about healthcare. I'm laughing my ass off because I know what the final bill is going to look like.

You can start planning your democratic victory party.

Notice that all the birthers, 9/11 truthers, GW deniers and teabaggers are also the

You guys all look the same too. Isn't that funny.

Hey Axe, isn't a 9/11 truther a leftie? LMAO.

Ignoramus can't even get his insults right. LOL.

I know what the final bill is going to look like.

No.

You don't.

No.

You don't.

#28 | Posted by TedBaxter

It's not climate science.

Conversely, that explains why the majority of cons DON'T support it. They:
1.Are covered by their employers and are happy with it.
2.Have never had to access health care in a major way. Or
3.Have never personally written their health insurance premium checks.

#23 | Posted by TedBaxter

You forgot

4. plans on using the free ER care in case anything ever happens to their sorry ass.

Also, there are wastes of space like Senator McFail that have never paid a penny for heath care because they have has true socialized health care their entire lives. The fuck was born a Navy brat in Panama, in a Navy hospital, had dependent coverage until he went into the Navy and then got free coverage as a Senator. All on it on our dime.

And we trust these sick fucks to tell the truth about health care?

MysteryToy might as well get used to it that eventually this country will have a universal single payer system. Don't know when, probably after same sex marriage is recognized in all fifty states. But s/he won't like that either.

MysteryToy might as well get used to it that eventually this country will have a universal single payer system. Don't know when

#31 | Posted by TedBaxter

Probably administered by Walmart.

rcade wrote,

"If reform works as successfully as Social Security and Medicare,"

You can't be serious. Have you ever figured up how much you paid into social security and then compare that to what you will get when you retire.

I figured mine up and the numbers are staggering. Working from the time I was 18 until 62 assuming I will make as much as I currently make for the next 19 years. I would have in excess of 1 million dollars if the 12.2% I pay was put in the stock market and only earned an average of 5% compounded annually over the course of my life.

By my numbers I could live off of only the interest and leave the million plus dollars to anyone I wished.

This is the problem with liberals they actually believe the horseshit they are spoon fed by their leaders.

Social Security is a ponzi scheme and illegal for anyone else to do except the government.

And of course the unfunded liabilty thing makes any liberals head blow off like the dollbots in Austin Powers flicks.

#34 | Posted by The_Chapel | Flag: Austin Powers Flicks Replace Bible, Winnie The Pooh As Poster's Major Reference Point

I think just about the easiest way for me to get a "dump" on the DR would be to express my honest opinion of TheChapel. He is one of the few people I have ever encountered on the internet about whom I have absolutely nothing good to say. (Though RexZ also fit that bill.)

Hence the presence of the soggily piquant aroma of Niceville, a.k.a. Gnubsy, the DR's very own holly roller Muffin Boy.

Can't anyone stop with the left vs. right bullshit and not be so easily manilupated?

Does the tail EVER stop wagging the dog with you zelots?

Why can't taking care of the health and wellbeing of the American people be accomplished?

Health care cannot be a profit industry and a public service at the same time!

Profit and care don't ever work together unless all you care about is profit!!

****Why Dems Are Obsessed by Health Reform****

....because we have a second-world health care system......

.....they are just trying to bring it up to first world standards......

.....some people would be quite content to let the whole country slip into third-world status......