I bet Corky has a big Paul Krugman poster hanging in his bedroom.

Naw, I like this one.

I don't give a shit what Krugman says. I don't want forced health insurance stuffed down my throat and I don't want to pay for it either. I want the government to stay the fuck out of my life.

I was just saying Corky, you are to Krugman as JeffnDenmark is to Paul Watson. Nobody else but you posts Krugman. Why don't you diversify a little.

-I want the government to stay the fuck out of my life.

Posted at the public library after ride on public transportation past public park and public university next to public fire station on public road that intersects public highway near public police station just after Post Office.

Twit.

-Nobody else but you posts Krugman

Highly nonfactual, but typical.

They won't admit that they are still Reagan worshippers.

this little weasel sounds like obama and dems did before stimulus and tarp

THE WORLD WILL FALL APART if we dont sign it TODAY.

and then he waited until the best PHOTO OPT and most of it STILL ISNT spent

so excuse us if we dismiss this EX ENRON CONSULTANT as a partisan pissant.

Zombie Reagan Fails The Ronald Reagan Republican Purity Test

Krugman's a teabagger...

Krugman fails to mention how the Dems not so long ago were against any cuts to medicare.

The dems used that against the repubs for years.

The HC bill is all about power and taking over 20% of our economy and our lives.

Screw them.

How about give us our fucking money back, bring the troops home, and make finance, insurance and real estate subordinate to manufacturing. Its so simple any banker can understand it.

Posted at the public library (CITY OR COUNTY GOVERNMENT) after ride on public transportation (CITY OR COUNTY) past public park (CITY OR COUNTY) and public university (STATE GOVERNMENT) next to public fire station (CITY OR COUNTY) on public road (COUNTY) that intersects public highway (STATE)near public police station (CITY) just after Post Office (RUN ON A CONTRACT BY FEDEX).

Twit.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2009-12-04 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag: TWIT

Obviously, because city and county governments are responsive to local needs, America must quickly turn over 18 percent of the economy to a bunch of lazy (union) federal bureaucrats -- who are exempt from the health coverage they will inflict on everyone else.

Solid argument Corky.

18% of the economy that doesn't serve half the population...sounds efficient.

Corky is right (again).

Free health care will free up trillions of dollars
that we can spend elsewhere (free is good).

Social security, medicare & medicaid are wonderful
government programs that millions depend on. They
are tried and true and best of all: They are flush with cash!

If you like social security, you will REALLY love
Obamacare. Government programs work for YOU.

Give Obama a chance - he cares and wants to help.

Be Well.

"and best of all: They are flush with cash!"

Amazing...underfund good programs, watch them fail, and use that as proof the programs were worthless all along.

#11 | POSTED BY MURPHY

The 'cuts' being discussed are only to Medicare Advantage, the GOP's answer to privatization of Medicare. Medicare Advantage has become a huge profit center for big insurance. 15-23% going for the usual 'administrative fees', where regular Medicare is closer to 2%.

The reason that the overhead on medicare is closer to 2% is that medicare just cuts checks. They do almost NO fraud checking. It was getting so bad that they eventually had to contract out to the private insurance companies to do some minimal investigations. Still, they send billions and billions of bucks a year to people who claim to be doctors and small offices in strip malls that pretend to be hospitals.

Personally, the hassle with my insurance company might often be a pain, but they do more to keep the cost down than the feds.

From CBS (A bastion of right-wingers, the bunch of them)...

Medicare, the government insurance program that provides health care to 46 million elderly and disabled Americans... Medicare fraud - estimated now to total about $60 billion a year.

If I do the math right, that is more than $1300 per person per year in FRAUD. So, if we expand that from 46 million to 300 million... that would put fraud at a little shy of $400 BILLION dollars per YEAR. And it will only grow. As the program covers more people, the ability to file false claims and the volume of claims will simply be too large for a gov't agency to handle with any precision.

If we are going to nationalize the health insurance industry, we need to just go whole-hog. Make all doctors and nurses gov't employees. Make the hospitals all part of the VA system. Force college students to become doctors and nurses via a draft. Nationalize the schools while your at it, as no one would spend hundreds of thousands of bucks to train for a job that pays 75K a year. Nationalize the drug companies, the medical devices manufacturing, the sources of medical supplies, etc.

Either we are a country that supports freedom, or we are a country that suppresses freedoms. Soon, we all may have to chose.

The reason that the overhead on medicare is closer to 2% is that medicare just cuts checks. They do almost NO fraud checking. It was getting so bad that they eventually had to contract out to the private insurance companies to do some minimal investigations.

#19 | Posted by 1libertarian at 2009-12-05 06:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

What an idiot. (makes politics easier).

Medicare is administered, state-by-state, by private insurance companies. Medicare contracts the program to Aetna, Cigna, Blue Cross, etc.

-Nobody else but you posts Krugman
Highly nonfactual, but typical.

#6 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2009-12-04 12:05 PM

True Corky, I have repeatedly posted articles by Paul Krugman, the ONLY nobel prize winning economist who had the intelligence and courage to stand up to the failures occurring economically a year or so BEFORE the neos ran our economy off a cliff with deregulation, speculation and lack of oversight.

And of course, the messenger (Krugman) was smeared then too......while they IGNORED his message.

Amazing...underfund good programs, watch them fail, and use that as proof the programs were worthless all along.

#17 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2009-12-04 11:43 PM

It's the neocon/repug way, because they HATE the US Govt:

My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.
Grover Norquist

And of course, the messenger (Krugman) was smeared then too......while they IGNORED his message.

Posted by woke at 2009-12-05 09:53 AM | Reply| Flag: DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HE DOES IT CONSTANTLY

Yep, definition of koolaid imbiber.

Soon, we all may have to chose.

#19 | POSTED BY 1LIBERTARIAN AT 2009-12-05 06:04 AM

Like last November, 2008, eh?

And of course, the messenger (Krugman) was smeared then too......while they IGNORED his message.
#21 | POSTED BY WOKE

If you think the feds can spend the economy into prosperity, you should try that at home and see how far you get. This is the same committee that recently gave the Nobel to Al Gore before Climategate broke out, and Obama before his Afghanistan buildup.

No credit, eh Ray.

Here is something for you to read:

An open letter from krugman to obama....

I'll take "or else".

They should, instead, be worried about what would happen if it doesn't pass.

What? Let me guess, they will get to keep their jobs.

Posted at the public library after ride on public transportation past public park and public university next to public fire station on public road that intersects public highway near public police station just after Post Office.

Twit.

#5 | Posted by Corky

cor, you are starting to sound like dok with his head burried where it is wet and warm.

18% of the economy that doesn't serve half the population...sounds efficient.

#15 | Posted by moneywar

WTF does that mean?

15-23% going for the usual 'administrative fees', where regular Medicare is closer to 2%.

#18 | Posted by Timex

You are a moron if you believe they administer Medicare for 2%!!!!

Pay special attention to the points krugman makes about what FDR did right and wrong in helping Americans weather the last depression.
#26 | POSTED BY WOKE

I know all the mythology surrounding Hoover and Roosevelt. Hoover tried government interference to keep wages up, thereby increasing unemployment. When Roosevelt devalued gold, he went on a massive spending spree, raised taxes, changed the law every week, created a climate of uncertainty, and waged war on businessmen. Who the hell do you think writes the history books? Use some common sense. Obama is following the same disastrous policies of Roosevelt. You can't spend your way out of a problem caused by too much spending. The worst of this depression is yet to come.

The worst of this depression is yet to come.

#32 | Posted by Ray

I hope so Ray. It warms my heart to think of you being penniless without a meal to eat. You deserve the misfortune you wish upon others. I'll find a way to survive through the tough times because I have before. You won't you have live a pampered life for far too long.

Then, tell us, what are your neocon heroes' plans to FIX the economic disasters their failed policies created???????

I have none. They're all criminals! Either party or ideology, this country is fucked. The more government tries to fix the economy, they worse they'll make it. The only question in my mind is how much damage are they willing to do before they realize they don't know what the fuck they are doing. We need less government, not more.

#33 | POSTED BY JACKASS AT 2009-12-05 12:54 PM | REPLY | FLAG: JERKOFF!

Less Govt will only lead to the weakest in our society being criminally exploited even more. Ray you are a senior citizen. Imagine yourself living on the streets without medicare. Is that what you want? Because that is what you'll get with no govt interference.

Less Govt will only lead to the weakest in our society being criminally exploited even more.

You dimwit! Your government is robbing, persecuting and killing Americans on a scale never before seen in history. They are the reason people are living on the streets. It's only a matter of time before they are totally bankrupt. If it wasn't for the printing press, they would be bankrupt. I almost felt sorry for you once. That passed when I reminded myself of how often you post like in #33. You have a job that suits perfectly your talents and abilities.

Hoover tried government interference to keep wages up, thereby increasing unemployment.

#32 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-12-05 12:50 PM

Wow, you must be reading one of those rw revisionist history books ray....

The failed ideology of the pre-New Deal Republican Party, manifested by President Hoover

James Barber explains the problem with Herbert Hoover's ideology, attitude, and approach to policy in his book, "The Presidential Character". That ideology, attitude and approach can be summed up with one short sentence: Government has little or no direct role to play in alleviating the economic problems of ordinary Americans. Barber describes how that played out in 1930, shortly after the Stock Market crash of 1929 that set off the Great Depression:

n the summer of 1930, a severe drought hit the Southwest; the Secretary of Agriculture called it the worst in our history and recommended a relief fund of $25 million. Congress preferred a bill authorizing $60 million, to which the President responded "prosperity cannot be restored by raids on the public treasury" or by "playing politics with human misery." Millions of farmers went bankrupt The President pressed forward a plan to provide loans but not direct relief, not cash to the hungry, not the dreaded "dole." The President and his Congressional allies fought off proposals to "put a man on a basis of equality with a mule" by providing food for the hungry farmers

In the fall of 1930, he appointed an Emergency Committee for employment, its work to be guided by the principle that unemployment was strictly a local responsibility. The Committee's chairman drafted a message for the President to submit to Congress calling for public works, slum clearance, low-cost housing, and rural electrification. The Committee also favored public works planning and a national employment service. The President rejected both. The chairman resigned

post continued with link.....

Hoover made absolutely clear his adamant aversion to federal government action to help ordinary Americans in his December 1930 message to Congress:

Economic depression can not be cured by legislative action or executive pronouncement. Economic wounds must be healed by the action of the producers and consumers themselves requires that every individual should sustain faith and courage; that each should maintain his self-reliance that the vast majority whose income is unimpaired should seek to assist his neighbors who may be less fortunate; that each industry should assist its own employees; that each community and each State should assume its full responsibilities

In other words, the economic health of our country is the responsibility of business, industry, ourselves, our neighbors, our communities anything but the federal government.

Woke - It's not a copout, but I'm not in the mood to argue with you. If you want to believe that Obama, by following Roosevelt's example, can restore the economy, go right ahead. Are you willing to wait three presidential terms for the economy to recover? You can't spend yourself out of a problem caused by too much spending. This is madness that can only lead to something far worse than the depression of the thirties. South American countries do this all the time.

Ray,

Your problem is that you get your talking points from Michael Steele, Glen Beck and Flush Rimjob. You really come across with the same authority on this subject as the guy down in the the park with the tin foil hat screaming at the pigeons.

Give it up. No one here can possibly take you seriously.

Axe

You don't know what the fuck your're talking about. I have no use for any of those assholes.

No one here can possibly take you seriously.

I know. You have no clue to what happens when governments go bankrupt. You and the rest of the sheep are screwed and don't know it.

Ray has been screaming about our impending doom for over 6 years and has managed to be wrong every single time. He thinks our govt will collapse like some banana republic in the third world. The truth though is that Ray is a loon who will die alone with a few gold pieces and nothing else.

#31 | Posted by Sniper

OK, Snarky McDummy

Tell us how paying so much more to 'administer' Medicare Advantage with all those $'s going to big insurance is a good thing.

And, should I add calling you a 'moron' to the end of my post like you do?

I don't give a shit what Krugman says. I don't want forced health insurance stuffed down my throat and I don't want to pay for it either. I want the government to stay the fuck out of my life.

#3 | POSTED BY WURSTER

You are a fucking moron.. It is common sense to want this to control costs.. who gives a shit about your perceived lack of "choice". you don't have "choice" now if the insurance companies deem it so..

You have a choice to MOVE , but unless you go to Zambia you more than likely will have to pay for health insurance anywhere in Europe courtesy of a public option.

Paul Krugman makes complete sense regarding this argument.

18% of the economy that doesn't serve half the population...sounds efficient.

#15 | POSTED BY MONEYWAR

but takes the profit and leaves the costs to the public..

If we are going to nationalize the health insurance industry, we need to just go whole-hog. Make all doctors and nurses gov't employees. Make the hospitals all part of the VA system. Force college students to become doctors and nurses via a draft. Nationalize the schools while your at it, as no one would spend hundreds of thousands of bucks to train for a job that pays 75K a year. Nationalize the drug companies, the medical devices manufacturing, the sources of medical supplies, etc.
Either we are a country that supports freedom, or we are a country that suppresses freedoms. Soon, we all may have to chose.

#19 | POSTED BY 1LIBERTARIAN

What a knee jerk, uninformed OPINION. In no country that offers a dual system is this the case. Germany and Australia are the Health Care options we will most likely emulate and those are highly successful.

Roosevelt devalued gold, he went on a massive spending spree, raised taxes,

-Ray

He devalued gold to increase the basis and essentially taxed the previous owners 42% when he re-established the basis at $35 (from $20) giving the treasury a boost.

Here's the truth Ray,

Only two Rethuglicans ever created jobs, Nixon and Reagan. Both relied on Keyensian Economics when their own re-election was on the line. Government spending fueled those economic rebounds. Their free market rhetoric is complete bullshit. When Capitalism takes over, everyone except a few Corporate CEOs (Medieval like Nobles) will be in the poorhouse. Eventually, when China begins to make their own brands, like Orbitz sprinklers and Harbor tools, they will drive the US Corporations out of business. Monopoly takes forever to play, but the results are always the same, one winner everyone else losers. You may be fine and never live to see this result, but its just a matter of time as long as Capitalism is th order of the day.

Government spending is the only way out of the hole we're in.

Give Obama a chance - he cares and wants to help.

Be Well.

#16 | Posted by skip_wellington at 2009-12-04 11:39 PM | Reply | Flag STUPID FUCK

hey jackass we are turning into a banana republic. how much do we owe china and who is paying for that!

Government spending is the only way out of the hole we're in.
#50 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

Government is broke, near the end of its credit limit with nothing left but the printing press. Common sense should tell you that you can't spend your way out of a problem caused by too much spending. What ever happened to common sense?

He devalued gold to increase the basis and essentially taxed the previous owners 42% when he re-established the basis at $35 (from $20) giving the treasury a boost.
#49 | POSTED BY LEGIO

In plain English, he devalued the dollar, instantly making every American 42% poorer. That gave Roosevelt the means to go on his spending spree when income receipts were in decline.

BTW the run on the banks was precipitated by rumors Roosevelt was going to devalue the dollar. Roosevelt denied it up to the day he declared a bank holiday.

how much do we owe china and who is paying for that!

#52 | Posted by bluesman3369

The 800 billion we owe China now is nothing compared to the 106 Trillion in unfunded liabilities we have obligated our kids to.

Woke - It's not a copout, but I'm not in the mood to argue with you. If you want to believe that Obama, by following Roosevelt's example, can restore the economy, go right ahead. Are you willing to wait three presidential terms for the economy to recover? You can't spend yourself out of a problem caused by too much spending. This is madness that can only lead to something far worse than the depression of the thirties. South American countries do this all the time.

#40 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-12-05 05:12 PM

No worries for me Ray. I can understand that it's much easier to merely dismiss any info that doesn't agree with your mindset.

Many rwrs who do so here on DR respond to info that doesn't agree with their mindset with personal attacks on the messenger, that you don't, speaks more highly of you than many here.

Still, I don't hear any plan coming from you or the "mindset" you have that will FIX the economic disasters created by 8 years of neocon policies.

And I have to wonder why people like yourself continue to believe the BS that neocon/repugs continue to spew about being conservatives and fear of debt.

reagan/bush41 QUADTRUPLED the national debt

bush/cheney DOUBLED it from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.

Who ya gonna believe, eh?

I can understand that it's much easier to merely dismiss any info that doesn't agree with your mindset.

I was tired last night. My sources on Hoover's actions are from books, so I can't provide web references. Here's some from my notes.

Hoover increased federal spending through the Federal Farm Board, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation and public works. In 1932 he increased both income and excise taxes to help pay for his programs. The top tax rate went to 63 percent. Private investment did not bounce back and unemployment reached 25 percent.

Hoover raised the highest tax rates from 25% to 63% in 1932.

In 1929, state taxes were about 7.2% of GNP. By 1932, they went to almost 12.5%.

Smoot-Hawley Tariff

Still, I don't hear any plan coming from you or the "mindset" you have that will FIX the economic disasters created by 8 years of neocon policies.

I've been trying to warn people that the federal government is broke, running out of credit with nothing left but the printing press. There is no solution for this. Market forces are beyond the federal government's power to hold off much longer.

I have no interest in political parties or ideologies. Common sense should tell you that you can't spend your way out of a problem caused by too much spending, whether you are a person or a nation. This is an economic crises of major proportions, much worse than the 30s when the US was a creditor nation.

I have a solution. The govt can seize the assets of people like Ray. Those with nothing will have nothing to fear. I'd love to hear the sob stories of how the govt kicked down doors and seized the ill gotten gains of some of the members here.

You have some serious mental problems, Jackass. I'm sure glad I'm not you. It must suck.

There is no solution for this.
#57 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-12-06 11:14 AM

Ah, I see, you have no solution and neither do the neocon/repugs who created this economic disaster and mountain of DEBT.

So, just naysay anyone else's solution.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Try to realize that if not for FDR's govt intervention, millions of Americans and their children would have starved to death.

Currently, many Americans, most of them who had been working before the neocon economic disaster, are losing their homes due to the economy AND enormous medical bills. Which party is trying to HELP them and which party is just saying NO as Hoover did, Ray?

Think about that for awhile.

Ray what I say makes sense if you do it by Taxes. Countries with the highest tax rates have some of the happiest citizens. I know why. It comes from not having to worry. When you have cradle to the grave entitlements you are naturally happier. Whatever happens you are secure in knowing the govt is there to back you up.

Woke,

"Which party is trying to HELP them and which party is just saying NO as Hoover did, Ray?"

Both Bush and Obama have had stimulus packages, Bush had TARP. Both parties will increase the DEBT substantially. Just because one uses euphemistic talking points about caring doesn't mean they are going about it correctly. Ray is arguing that they are going about it in the wrong manner. They are both the same beast.

But continue with your "US vs THEM" mentality, while "Rome burns", keep your blinders on, it feels good to be angry at GOPers. I don't have the doom and gloom that Ray has, I think there is a way to turn the corner because our system of government allows that. I have heard things about a debt VAT, this has some merit, tie it with a limit on spending as a percentage of GDP, and you might have something. This is where Ray and I agree, it will never happen.

"When you have cradle to the grave entitlements you are naturally happier. Whatever happens you are secure in knowing the govt is there to back you up."

If you have found nirvana, perhaps you should move there.

Ever live on a Kabutz Jackass, ever live in a truly socialized system?
I contend you have mediocrity, it may be all you want out of life, I am not knocking it, you should try it.

Woke

Please don't connect me to Republicans, conservatives or neocons. I have nothing to do with them.

Try to realize that if not for FDR's govt intervention, millions of Americans and their children would have starved to death.

That's the myth, which I'm not going to prove to you here. I could recommend some books if you express an interest.

Which party is trying to HELP them and which party is just saying NO as Hoover did, Ray?

I'm telling you that the federal government is broke, but it's not sinking in.

Deficit spending goes back to Wilson. No administration has balanced a budget since, alway relying on the Federal Reserve to pay the deficits with new money. Such a policy runs into two mathematical limits: the rising cost of maintaining debt and the the declining worth of money to zero.

Whatever happens you are secure in knowing the govt is there to back you up.

That's why I'm well stocked with gold and silver. Government bankruptcy is only a matter of time and what they do to put off the inevitable.

Govt house, Govt Job. It's all you need. I don't need much neither does anybody else.

That's why I'm well stocked with gold and silver.

#63 | Posted by Ray

Until the govt decides to take it.

I have news for you, Jackass. Govt is going to take your pension, your savings, your 401K. They'll garnish your salary for the debts you owe. They'll devalue the dollar mores, raising the cost of food and energy. You won't have much left to live on.

As for what I have in gold and silver, it's not on record. You're the one who should worry, not me. I find the irony amusing.

Andrea and Ray,

Again, which party is attempting to help working and formerly working Americans keep their homes, gain healthcare and jobs....

Feel free to compare where the money went on TARP vs the stimulus pkg.....

Then, try to again realize WHOSE policies created this ENORMOUS debt......despite all the BS about "conservative", no new taxes (read my lips), no nationbuilding, and debt reduction.

nixon/agnew/ford=8 yrs
carter=4 yrs
reagan/bush41=12 yrs
clinton and contract ON American repug congress=8 yrs
bush/cheney=8 yrs

I'm not a partisan dem and have voted for repugs, including mccain in the 2000 primary, but really, you might want to stop and take stock of what the repugs have SAID vs their ACTIONS....eh?

Ray what I say makes sense if you do it by Taxes. Countries with the highest tax rates have some of the happiest citizens. I know why. It comes from not having to worry. When you have cradle to the grave entitlements you are naturally happier. Whatever happens you are secure in knowing the govt is there to back you up.

#61 | Posted by jackass

It must truly suck to be that helpless. You want the capable to carry the incapable, the competent to be slave to the incompetent. If your fathers had just instilled a minuscule amount of work ethic and self confidence in you people you wouldn't have to look to others for the cleanliness of your rectum.

Again, Woke, for the third time - government is bankrupt! What is done is done. Enough said.

It must truly suck to be that helpless. You want the capable to carry the incapable, the competent to be slave to the incompetent. If your fathers had just instilled a minuscule amount of work ethic and self confidence in you people you wouldn't have to look to others for the cleanliness of your rectum.

The read divide in America is between the tax producers and the tax consumers. The ratio is roughly one producer to two consumers. What cannot be sustained will not be sustained.

It must truly suck to be that helpless. You want the capable to carry the incapable, the competent to be slave to the incompetent. If your fathers had just instilled a minuscule amount of work ethic and self confidence in you people you wouldn't have to look to others for the cleanliness of your rectum.

#68 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at 2009-12-06 12:23 PM |

Wrong I just want the corrupt members of our society like yourself to give something back to all the people you have ripped off over the years.

Ah, I see, you have no solution and neither do the neocon/repugs who created this economic disaster and mountain of DEBT.
So, just naysay anyone else's solution.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Try to realize that if not for FDR's govt intervention, millions of Americans and their children would have starved to death.
Currently, many Americans, most of them who had been working before the neocon economic disaster, are losing their homes due to the economy AND enormous medical bills. Which party is trying to HELP them and which party is just saying NO as Hoover did, Ray?
Think about that for awhile.

#60 | POSTED BY WOKE

It requires that the debt be soaked up.. The comparison to the Depression of the thirties shows a total lack of understanding about the dynamic that caused the Depression of the 30's. The current problem is worse and totally different. Two different circumstance.

- Stop foreign intervention- IRAQ and Afgahnistan
- nationalize healthcare to reduce overall costs
- reduce government employment
- fix infrastructure
- reduce energy usage, go low cost and environmentally friendly. this would be the best option for kick starting prosperity and breaking the energy conglomerates grip.
- renegotiate debt with debtor nations.
- reduce the amount of fiat currency circulating

Not to take Ray's side, but he is correct here.

Although Obama's attempt to help people should be lauded, you do have to place some responsibility on people that decided to take out a 500K loan on a house that they knew normally they couldn't pay back once the rate reset.

As for healthcare I believe that it is high time that we have a single payer or option that guarantee's health coverage and keeps rates reasonable. I look it at it as a machine maintenance plan. Your economic machinery must be maintained or your ability to survive as a nation is hindered.

Wrong I just want the corrupt members of our society like yourself to give something back to all the people you have ripped off over the years.

#71 | Posted by jackass

There is more opportunity in this country than any other. If you can't make it here, on your own, you can't make anywhere. Yes, I know this must make you feel rather inadequate. Even with all your degrees and education, not to mention your extensive night watchman experience, you still have to look to others for to be coddled like a baby. Yep, we corrupted you. It's our fault you suck....sorry.

Keep ripping off folks with those overpriced shacks you rent out. I am making it in spite of all the rights corruption.

If you were making it you wouldn't be demanding someone else wipe your ass.

I don't demand it for myself but all those Americans who struggle. Unlike you I give a shit about my fellow man. All you care about is yourself.

If you were making it you wouldn't be demanding someone else wipe your ass.

#75 | POSTED BY STIRSUMUP

don't worry turd.. when it reaches terminal velocity the masses will outnumber the haves and then you will see a good old fashioned revolution. Even the Romans understood that the price for stability is appeasement and opportunity for the masses.

You attitude has resulted in countless revolutions throughout history and when it happens you end up in the rubble of history with the rest owning nothing. That ain't blackmail.. thats the facts.

I don't demand it for myself but all those Americans who struggle. Unlike you I give a shit about my fellow man. All you care about is yourself.

#76 | POSTED BY JACKASS

Although I believe in helping my fellow man because I am a humanist, I also believe Americans have a unique opportunity for success unlike most of the world.

I believe it should be a level playing field for all and it just isn't so..

Stircumsup doesn't understand how to do business only that he has his and fuck everyone else if it isn't feasible to obtain the goal. karma is a bitch.

As for healthcare I believe that it is high time that we have a single payer or option that guarantee's health coverage and keeps rates reasonable. I look it at it as a machine maintenance plan. Your economic machinery must be maintained or your ability to survive as a nation is hindered.
nationalize healthcare to reduce overall costs

Healthcare was quasi-nationalized in steps following WWII. First by employer tax subsidy, then by Medicare and Medicaid taxes, the near extinction of for-profit hospitals and heavy, heavy regulations. It was the isolation of patient and doctor from the price structure which had the effect of driving up expenses.

The laws of economics will not be overturned. To fully nationalize health care will have a severe impact on quality and need some form of rationing to replace the rationing that the price system imposes. This is another disaster on top of the disaster of impending federal bankruptcy.

You attitude has resulted in countless revolutions throughout history and when it happens you end up in the rubble of history with the rest owning nothing. That ain't blackmail.. thats the facts.

I expect it will be the politicians who will have to answer for why they have no more money. In the past, kings have been known to have their heads cut off.

I believe it should be a level playing field for all and it just isn't so..

It's an impossible ideal; people are not born with equal abilities. Communism and feudalism came close, but in reality there were two classes, rich and poor. That's the direction this country is going.

#78 | Posted by Lego

I believe in helping people because it's the right thing to do. I do not believe you have a right to demand that I help someone of your choosing and to your satisfaction. No one owes you anything other than what they agree to freely. Giving is called that for a reason. If your on the receiving end you should be grateful, not demanding.

Problem is that most conservatives say they give to charity but are actually lying because we all know they are too damn greedy to give a cent to anyone else.

Problem is that most conservatives say they give to charity but are actually lying because we all know they are too damn greedy to give a cent to anyone else.

#83 | Posted by jackass

I could tell you how much my family donates but you wouldn't believe it or you'd say we did it just for the tax deduction. Either way, we give what we give because it's our choice. That's not how you guys operate.

"I could tell you how much my family donates...."

You don't need to justify the amount of your charitable contributions or the reasons why to anyone....and you shouldn't.

Those articles are lies. I also don't consider tithing charity because so little of it goes to help the poor. Most of it goes toward the maintenance of the church and the rest goes towards salaries.

Lisa please refrain from telling another blogger that he has the right to not answer for his lies.

I could tell you how much my family donates but you wouldn't believe it or you'd say we did it just for the tax deduction. Either way, we give what we give because it's our choice. That's not how you guys operate.

#84 | Posted by STIRSUMUP at 2009-12-06 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Unfortunately, not many people give like you do. You don't give enough to solve the problem, but since you do give, you would like to see the problem fixed. I can't see how you would not want the fixing of the problem shared so that the problem is handled much better than you can do on your own. The amount YOU give would not be affected at all. Simply decuct the amount the government would take from the amount you would normally give, and you are in a break even position, plus, the problem would have much more money given to solving it.

What needs to happen is that you not give your greedy church a nickel and the state can tax you wages at a higher level. This way the poor can be better served.

I donate 40% of every paycheck to the most deserving charity of all ... (government).

Bob, I don't worship complexity. I control what I can and the things I can't I leave to people I trust. I have no trust in the government what so ever. They have never given me any reason to. If you've ever read any books on raising children you'll know that if someone is behaving in a way that is unproductive or negligent giving them what they want is only enabling bad behavior.

I donate 40% of every paycheck to the most deserving charity of all ... (government).

#89 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-06 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you make a donation--you have nothing to bitch about.

Good Ray. The take that 40% and redistribute it to those that need it.

I donate 40% of every paycheck to the most deserving charity of all ... (government).

#89 | Posted by Ray

most undeserving.....

Ray, you need a better accountant.lol

Stir

I work in New York state and take a standard deduction. The upshot is that I'm collecting SS. Thank you Jackass and Buffalo Bob for your contribution.

Thank you Jackass and Buffalo Bob for your contribution.

#94 | Posted by Ray at 2009-12-06 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are very welcome---wish I could do more. Beats starving doesn't it?

The laws of economics will not be overturned. To fully nationalize health care will have a severe impact on quality and need some form of rationing to replace the rationing that the price system imposes. This is another disaster on top of the disaster of impending federal bankruptcy.

#79 | POSTED BY RAY

I do not agree with your assessment regarding this..The data from other countries does not agree with your grim prognosis.

The data from other countries does not agree with your grim prognosis.
#96 | POSTED BY LEGIO

That's like trusting foxes to count your chickens. I'll stick to what I know about economics. Markets are superior to bureaucracies at balancing demand with supply. As I noted before, current problems are directly related to increasing government intervention. More intervention will only make matters worse.

Stir

I work in New York state and take a standard deduction. The upshot is that I'm collecting SS. Thank you Jackass and Buffalo Bob for your contribution.

#94 | Posted by Ray

I'm in NC. I own the business, but I'm also an employee. It allows me to move some of my expenses over to the pre tax side and lower the overall taxable income. Also cuts the amount I have to pay into the SS. It ends up around 32%. Still, it sucks.

Ray claims to have some knowledge of economics. Okay Ray, take the bullshit you have been posting and inject the reality of MONOPOLY into the equations. At the very least the Health Insurance companies are a classic TRUST in the areas where they are not de-facto monopolies.

How about it, smart ass?

No one in their right mind aspires to live in government housing. Government cheese is widely used to describe substandard food products. No one here would want a government lawyer (public defender) if it was their ass on the line. Everyone admits that the government retirement plan (social security) is not adequate. And not a single person I know sends things that simply MUST arrive by government mail. (I won't even discuss the wonderful results of government schools.)

So why do so many wish to subject ALL of us to government health care?

No one in their right mind aspires to live in government housing. Government cheese is widely used to describe substandard food products. No one here would want a government lawyer (public defender) if it was their ass on the line. Everyone admits that the government retirement plan (social security) is not adequate. And not a single person I know sends things that simply MUST arrive by government mail. (I won't even discuss the wonderful results of government schools.)

So why do so many wish to subject ALL of us to government health care?

#100 | Posted by A_Citizen

Because....uh..um...you see...uh....

A-Cocksucker,

Get you head out of your ass and wake up to the fact that health care reform has NOTHING to do with the government running health care. It has to do with reforming the INSURANCE industry.

By the way, talk to the military if you want to see how well the government runs health care. Our military has the best health care on the planet. All run by the evil government.

tool.

The teabaggers really have nothing honest to say about health care so they resort to THE BIG LIE.

Look at every statement they make and you'll find them ALL to be exaggerations or out right falsehoods.

Why do teabaggers hate America?

Axe,

You need to get your head from your rectum. The reform that you speak of will result in government run health care.

If you adopt the premise (or the law takes the power to pay for your own health care away from the consumer) then you get what the government will pay for at the rate at which the government pays. In other words, the government is deciding what you get. The level of compensation determines how good it is.

If you want to talk about government run health care, go check out the line at the Indian clinic. Most military and Indians that I know try to get private health insurance to avoid the "government health care" you speak so highly of.

As far as using the term "teabagging"...the only people with balls in their mouth are the obamabots as they apologise for what they have done to this country. The only thing those people like about this country is the fact that it will take from those to have and give to those who are not willing to work for it. Any statement to the contrary is THE BIG LIE you speak of.

Axe,

I hate to "enlighten" you, but my Mother-in-law was in England and had to have a hysterectomy. The waiting list at the "government" hospitals was months. Their rooms were dormitory rooms (i.e. none private) and the care was atrocious. Fortunately, she got into the "private" hospital and had the surgery in short order. She also had a private room and some of the finest care money can buy.

But keep teabagging your dark master. Maybe if you are good he will write his name on your face.

I notice that you make a statement and run when it is refuted. make another statement and continue the run. I guess your position is really that bad that you can't defend a single point. When the dems have to bribe their own to vote for the damned thing it speaks volumes to me.

Let's get out the calculator. $300 Million per vote times 60 Democrats equals $18 Trillion. Sorry dudes there's not enough money left in the Treasury to pass this bill.

Even if we lower it to $100 Million per vote that is still $6 Trillion. Still not enough money in the treasury.

Sorry pals, no health care this year.

Ray claims to have some knowledge of economics. Okay Ray, take the bullshit you have been posting and inject the reality of MONOPOLY into the equations. At the very least the Health Insurance companies are a classic TRUST in the areas where they are not de-facto monopolies.
How about it, smart ass?
#99 | POSTED BY AXE

Hahaha. You fool! The insurance companies made 2% profit last year. Some monopoly. The worst monopoly is government. They have the power to make you pay whatever they charge; and they don't pay taxes. Second to government monopoly is the Federal Reserve, a private cartel of banks, protected by the government monopoly. Together, they fucked up the economy real bad. Wait till you see how they run the health care system.

Axe, how about Walter Reed just a couple of years ago. Wasn't there mold growing on the walls? Wasn't it dirty and run down?

That is the premier medical hospital in the military. Is that the type of hospital you want, because that is the type of hospital you will get under government run health care.

Now we have Ray parroting Glen Beck.

Give the nice birdy a cracker!!!!!

Some economist. Where did you get your degree, fraud? The University of Goatman?

#108 Ha!!!! Miseryboy bought his calculator from the same gumball machine Vern got his from.

Fucking teabaggers tell THE BIG LIE so much they seem to think nobody is listening.

Newbie Troll Turd,

Walter Reed hospital was a victim of Jeff Gannon's idiot girlfriend's hatred of the military. That draft-dodging pole muncher raped and pillaged the military's health care budget so he could give tax breaks to billionaires like Soros and Ellison and divert extra billions to Halliburton.

Walter Reed?

#114 and 115

See, even when you try THE BIG LIE on the Republicans, IT TURNS OUT TO BE TRUE. You can't even make up shit about them that is worse than the actual truth!!!

This is why nobody on the left tries to tell lies about the evil cocksuckers. The truth is much worse than anything our imaginations can come up with.

Axe, how about Walter Reed just a couple of years ago. Wasn't there mold growing on the walls? Wasn't it dirty and run down?
That is the premier medical hospital in the military. Is that the type of hospital you want, because that is the type of hospital you will get under government run health care.

#110 | POSTED BY RUSSELLO AT 2009-12-06 11:02 PM

Glad you brought that up. Perhaps you should do some basic research before doing so though, since the problems at Walter Reed were in the section that had been PRIVATIZED.

Kinda totally undercuts your point, eh?

Smoking Gun: Walter Reed scandal connected to Halliburton & FEMA [VIDEO]
Posted by Evan Derkacz at 1:45 PM on March 5, 2007.

A Conservative scandal

Not only is the scandalous treatment of American Troops at Walter Reed military hospital connected to Halliburton and Katrina-era FEMA (see video right) but it's also, at its core, a deeply, deeply conservative scandal.

"Privatization," or the transfer of any and all services into the hands of market morality, is a fundamental part of the conservative project.

For its past performance in the public sector, see Energy Crisis, California.

This time, under some shady circumstances, a private firm IAP was given the contract to take over a number of services at Walter Reed, despite the fact that the employees' bid was lower.

Only after IAP "protested" (according to Waxman's letter to General Weightman PDF) was the employees' bid "increased" and the contract awarded to the private firm headed by ex-Halliburton official, Al Neffgen.

This privatization precipitated an 80% drop in care workers, leading to a human scandal that the market will never ever, ever be equipped to handle. It's neither the market's, nor conservatives', business. At the heart of privatization is the belief that competing desires to make a buck will "take care of everything."

read the rest here:

Per usual the rwrs post their MISINFORMATION, then cut and run from the truth, eh?

No wonder they never adjust and continue down their path of misinformation and outright lies.

It's sad for America that these kinds of people who are so easily indoctrinated by false logic, lack of facts and misinformation are not only regurgitating those lies on blogs like these, but also voting for the politicians who thrive on these lies.