...

How do the Marines and soldiers slated to go to Afghanistan feel today, knowing that their commander-in-chief has already declared defeat?

By the time Obama finally got to Pakistan -- the refuge of evil -- he was spouting pure nonsense: "We are committed to a partnership with Pakistan that is built on a foundation of mutual interests, mutual respect and mutual trust." But our interests diverge, we don't respect each other and we certainly don't trust each other.

Sounded good, though.

Mr. President, how can you send our troops to war without backing them all the way? How could you pull the strategic rug out from under them in advance? Why did you reassure the Taliban that we've already fixed a sell-by date? What's the bloody point?

At West Point last night, President Obama's delivery was superb. But what he was delivering was a funeral oration for his promised strategy.

The writer brings up some good points.

So Obama gets it from both sides.

And a 35% approval on this issue says it all.

I am glad he is listening to the general about sending more troops but why all the dithering for 3 months to come to that conclusion?

And it took us longer to train the Iraqis than Obama's expectation in training the Afghans.

The only GTFO that will be going on in '11 will be Obama from the White House. Then Obama will be replaced by some one else who will carry on the war. We're not leaving Afghanistan. We're never leaving.

When have we ever fully withdrawn from a country were once at war with?

How long must we stay there Murphy??? Hmmmmmmmmmm how much fucking longer do You want to waste American lives Murphy??? How many must die to quench Your blood lust?? It's that simple Murphy.

Larry

Sorry, Smurphette-Didn't mean to intrude-I just didn't know this was your own masturbation thread......

Sorry, Smurphette-Didn't mean to intrude-I just didn't know this was your own masturbation thread......

#6 | Posted by frankf2.5

Intrude? Like you could. Bwhahaha.

So get back to your own, Spank55. You know, the thread where you ditherers claim millions of jobs were added by the stimulus. You toad.

The little guy is just killing time until the Mrs. is asleep so he won't get laughed out of the bedroom again.

Obama.... don't shoot til you see the whites of their eyes.....On second thought, don't shoot at all. If a hair on any of their heads is touched you'll be up on charges..... See you in 2011. That's the year before 2012.

To our troops: Risk your lives for a mission I've written off.

The last president wrote the mission off to spread democracy to another country.

To our allies: Race you to the exit ramp.

One of our greatest allies is contemplating sending, what, 500 guys? They're beating us to the exit ramp, it seems.

To the Taliban: Allah is merciful, your prayers will soon be answered.

...

To Pakistan: Renew your Taliban friendships now (and be nice to al Qaeda).

I put these two together because they're similar. We were best-fucking-buddies with the Taliban while they were harboring Al Qaeda when we needed to run an oil pipeline through the country.

To Afghan leaders: Get your stolen wealth out of the country.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The right wing critics are only asking for a bigger clusterfuck than Obama's clusterfuck. This is a loser, no matter what. Get the fuck out of there.

"Our Commander in Chief has already declared defeat...."

If the war in Afghanistan is lost, it was lost years and years ago.

"Selective outrage" doesn't describe it. There is a large faction of Republicans who are bloody-minded hypocrites. Further, they behave as if they're as dumb as rocks.

Here's one for you MURPHY---Let's bring the boys home now.

HE isn't setting them up so much as just finalizing the plans already in play.

Here is a Question for Murphy. Say You get Your wish and we are there for the next 10 Years and nothing has changed then what?? Do You want 10 Years more or do You bring them home?? How many of our Countrymen/Women must die in order to satisfy You Murphy?? That is the real question.

Larry

Here is the simple truth- when you send the military into a combat zone without a plan to victory or a definition of what that victory is, and then start another war and remove troops from there just as some sort of progress is starting to be made....you set them up to fail. That was Bush.

Obama is proving that insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

The creep-out factor in Republican political thinking only intensifies. God I hope you people run Cheney or Palin in 2012.

Eventually they'll have to create some sort of reserve to protect the remaining twenty Republicans who are breeding pairs, like they did for the Atwater Prarie Chicken.

When have we ever fully withdrawn from a country were once at war with?

#4 | Posted by wurster

Vietnam.

Pakistan -- the refuge of evil

HEY!!!

Peters' position is lunacy. He asks, "Does Obama really expect to achieve in one year what we haven't been able to do in more than eight?" What makes him think we can accomplish *anything* in Afghanistan, if he feels like we failed over the last eight? He should be arguing for a total pullout now.

What makes him think we can accomplish *anything* in Afghanistan, if he feels like we failed over the last eight?

Perhaps he thinks that by adding a large number of troops, it's possible to take larger steps toward our goals than we have in the past. I don't find that to be entirely unreasonable.

I don't see any legitimate reason to announce a troop surge and at the same time announce when you are going to leave. It's nothing but a way to score political points with people who want the war to be over. If you were going to fight someone, would you announce before you hit them - "I'm only going to do this for 25 seconds?" No, you'd fight them until you felt you had accomplished whatever your objectives were.

I don't agree with fighting a war in Afghanistan. But if you're going to do it, go all out and do it right. If you're going to announce a troop surge, say you're going to kick ass until you don't need to anymore.

Does Obama really expect to achieve in one year what we haven't been able to do in more than eight?

And what do you expect to get done in an indefinite amount of time that we couldn't get done in the past eight?

My God Murphy, do you actually think when you read this shit or do you just look for anything that disagrees with Obama?

Murphy just likes to spout off whatever bullshit comes to the top of her head. Whatever she hears on rightwing radio she takes as gospel.

only in the mind of the fringe right does having a goal in mind equatae to setting up to fail..

every successful project has clearly defined goals and deadlines. Those deadlines move as new information comes and new tasks are added.

But the plan still has the goals.

Thats why you fringies elected the bankrupter twice.

bush bankrupted two oil companies and a country because he didn't understand the items necessary for a successful plan.

but thats ok, we'll let you losers whine.

you only make yourselves look bad.

Bush set the troops up to fail. Obama is just continuing his policy. But at least he says "change" alot.

I happened to see General Vo Nguyen Giap being interviewed on TV years ago and he was asked what he thought was the biggest mistake made by the U.S. in Vietnam. He replied, "The one year tour of duty." According to him, the troops knew when they would be leaving and weren't as concerned with doing the job as they were with just passing that year. In addition, it took six months to learn the areas and to become proficient and by that time the individual was counting days to returning to "The World." Could this be deja vu all over again?

I don't see any legitimate reason to announce a troop surge and at the same time announce when you are going to leave.

For the last eight years we have been in Afghanistan without an announced exit schedule. Did that help at all? An argument can be made that it's best to give them as much advance warning as possible, so they can prepare for it.

However, I think we should start leaving now. There's nothing we will accomplish in the next two years we did not accomplish in the last eight. Escalation is folly.

Related news:

For the last eight years we have been in Afghanistan without an announced exit schedule. Did that help at all?

Clearly, per the General's latest request, we didn't have enough troops in Afghanistan. Don't you think that was a little more of a problem in terms of accomplishing our objectives than simply not having announced a date we would leave?

I think we should start leaving now.

Agreed, although I don't see expect too many liberals to hold Obama's feet to the fire for doing otherwise.

Yes, yes. Obama and Clinton and Gates and the Chairman of the Joint COS and McCrystal are setting our military up to fail.

I'm surrounded by mo-rons.

-There's nothing we will accomplish in the next two years we did not accomplish in the last eight. Escalation is folly.

I beg to differ.

The problem was completely ignored for the last 8 years, and this is the first strategy to finish a job that should have been finished several years ago instead of attacking Iraq.

That sordid history is no reason not to do the job right the second time.

Corky, most of listened to the Speech Tuesday. No need for you to regurgitate it.

Clearly, per the General's latest request, we didn't have enough troops in Afghanistan.

When does a general ever say that we have enough troops?

The problem was completely ignored for the last 8 years, and this is the first strategy to finish a job that should have been finished several years ago instead of attacking Iraq.

I don't believe that Afghanistan is a job that can be finished by a foreign army. Either the people there want to fight for their existing government or they don't. We can't fight it for them and expect the solution to last.

-most of listened to the Speech Tuesday

Really? I seriously doubt that.

-Either the people there want to fight for their existing government or they don't.

They do, and we told them from day one we would help them to do so after we kicked out the Taliban.

Of course, we never did, until now.

I saw in interview with a woman US trooper on the front lines in a combat unit in Kandahar who was happy to have help coming because she believed they could succeed in helping the people re-establish control of their city.

I agree with the basic principle of the people needing to be the ones to initiate the action, which was one reason not to go into Iraq.

But this is not Iraq, and 911 DID originate here and so will another attack unless the military there is strong enough to hold off the Taliban.

When does a general ever say that we have enough troops?

I suspect that if he asks for 40,000 and you gave it to him, he'd say we had enough. Did the generals in Iraq ask for more troops after the surge there?

The number they wanted was reportedly 80,000 with 40,000 being the lowest.

Obama choose 30,000.

War is not perfect--that's for sure.

Afghanistan is a cluster--no matter what we do.

It is bothersome Obama can't use the word victory. And he wouldn't even go into what success would look like or resemble.

He just said once we get there --we're leaving!

They want to train the afghans--they have to get rid of the gov't corruption--get rid of the opium--and kill the enemy.

If the security is won with the surge of troops--that would be huge.

----

And Larry--you blood thristy vampire! lol

We can have a base remain in Afghanistan. We have done it in Japan and Germany...

We have to kill the enemy--or they will reconstitute and the crazies will come back like a swirling drain (or toilet).

"We have to kill the enemy, or they will reconstitute...."

The problem with the enemy in Afghansitan is that they live there. It takes pennies to deploy them and keep them in the field. By conservative estimate, $500,000 per US soldier or Marine.

My hope is that sober minds have a strategy in mind with these new 30,000 troops that will create for us one of the better of a mulitiplicity of poor outcomes.

This is the Iraq model, though for the life of me I can't tell if the Surge worked there or the fighting stopped when the ethnic cleansing was successful.

My fear is that Obama has bowed to the right-wing concept of manliness at any expense. If this is so, then I could have told him a year ago that Republicans don't care who he is, or what he does, just that he isn't one of Them.

And Larry--you blood thristy vampire! lol

We can have a base remain in Afghanistan. We have done it in Japan and Germany...

We have to kill the enemy--or they will reconstitute and the crazies will come back like a swirling drain (or toilet).

#37 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-12-03 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

So Murphy is trying to turn Me on huh?? Well it's working.

Larry

It is bothersome Obama can't use the word victory. And he wouldn't even go into what success would look like or resemble.

Did Bush define success in Afghanistan once in the entire time he was leading the country during that war?

Did Bush define success in Afghanistan once in the entire time he was leading the country during that war?
#40 | Posted by rcade

I rather doubt it. But, true to form, he managed to make some incredibly stupid statements about Afghanistan. For example:

"And as a result of the United States military, Taliban no longer is in existence. And the people of Afghanistan are now free." [9/27/04]

"And the people of Afghanistan are now free..... to fall for our promises to help them rebuild their military while I go off and avenge Daddykins" [9/27/04]

Did Bush define success in Afghanistan once in the entire time he was leading the country during that war?

#40 | Posted by rcade

See #41...

Afghanistan was mainly about kicking the taliban out and killing them along with AQ and catching OBL.

Afghanistan has a gov't--weak as it is--but it's there--fraud and all!

Girls get to go to school.

People aren't hangin in the soccer field with a bullet in the head.

But NATO is there--a first --and Pakistan is fighting the good fight on their border.

Depending on what they do with the troops--we could have a reasonably secure Afghanistan.

I would love to see troops come home.

-----

It would be nice for Obama to say victory.

Soldiers should at least be sent to secure a victory--they are making the ultimate sacrifice-potentially.

And not to just turn around after 18 months if the ground situation isn't right.

Great post Murphy.

Well, except for the melodramatic BS about out troops being demoralized by Obama declaring defeat. (I must've missed that part of the speech)

Now, could you please tell us what the original neocon plan was when lilaWol/hallichainy invaded/occupied Afghanistan and then promptly ignored it for the last 6 years, allowing those who attacked us on 911 to resurge there?

After that, you can tell us what YOUR plan is. Failing that, perhaps you could tell us what the republican plan is now????

(Other than naysaying everything and anything Obama does, that is.)

good pic in todays houston chron

pic of obama at podium WITH TELEPROMPTERS Of course standing in front of a door with EXIT on the top..

here is what he REALLY promised

Shit, don't even have to read the thread, it is a laughing stock to even think Murphy posted this spouting about setting up military to fail.

My word, murphy has no thought value on the political hypocrit side.