Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Friday, November 27, 2009

Stock markets in the U.S. have opened lower Friday on worries about Dubai's debt problems, with the Dow Jones index down 211 points, or 2%, at 10,253.39. Global stock markets tumbled a day earlier on mounting anxiety over a debt default request by Dubai World, the centerpiece of the Gulf state's economy. David Buik, senior partner at BGC Partners, said: "You can't just say to the world: 'I don't want to pay my debts'. There is no income coming in from any of these properties. I think this is shocking PR."

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BY FAR the biggest story of the week; depending how it plays out, one of the biggest ever.

But since it doesn't involve Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh, and because it DOES involve arcane economics and finance issues, the libbies won't have any opinion on it until Air America resumes its regularly scheduled programming.

The dollar sinks like lead.
3.bp.blogspot.com

Gold floats like a cork.
www.321gold.com

2009 was a prelude of the shocks to come in 2010.

Dow futures down 170.

I never trade the first three trading days after options expiration. That's saved me a few times. And I took Tues and Wed off, which looks like it's saved 8-10%, come Friday morning.

Looking for the dollar to soar, and commodities and stocks to come down. Bond yields never lie, and they went negative again last week.

Either Ray or I are right. Either way, it's big trouble.

176 now. Bloomberg is reporting that European banks' exposure to just this tranche of Dubai debt is over $40 billion.

A pretty big hit in one day.

I guess building a resort around "Burka Beach" wasn't such a good idea.

Here's how the US situation stacks up.

It's one of those numbers that's so unbelievable you have to actually think about it for a while... Within the next 12 months, the U.S. Treasury will have to refinance $2 trillion in short-term debt. And that's not counting any additional deficit spending, which is estimated to be around $1.5 trillion. Put the two numbers together. Then ask yourself, how in the world can the Treasury borrow $3.5 trillion in only one year? That's an amount equal to nearly 30% of our entire GDP. And we're the world's biggest economy. Where will the money come from?
www.thedailycrux.com

Of the $9 Trillion Washington expects to borrow in the next ten years, half of it will be interest. Of course their spending projects are always too low and they rule out a possibility of a crash in the Treasury market. money.cnn.com

Obama Shatters Spending Record for First Year President: $3.52 Trillion with a $1.4 Trillion deficit. www.foxnews.com

The denizens of Washington can't even control their bowels.

Islands in the sand.

I just increased my position in pharma. It's a buying opportunity.

And just remember: every time you take a pill, you give me money.

Futures now down 305. Dollar is soaring, silver locked limit down.

Going to be a wild day, with a short trading session heading into the weekend.

Hey RIR gotta question and need some advice. If You were a Dumb Fuck regarding matters of the economy and the stock market and wanted to learn about the ins and outs of said subject matter. What books would You recommend for that Dumb fuck to learn about it. ANY idears?? Any idears at all?? Thanks in advace for the 411.

Larry

Any idears at all

keep your money in your sock

Going to be a Black Friday on Wall Street. Makes you wonder if what effect it might have on holiday shopping, if millions of shoppers see markets in the midst of a huge selloff. Already the most interesting Thanksgiving weekend since . . . well, since last year, when Citigroup got annihilated.

What books would You recommend for that Dumb fuck to learn about it. ANY idears?? Any idears at all??

Though you didn't ask me, try "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt.

RR

Whatever happens today, you can bet that the Plunge Protection Team are hard at work at their terminals.

"keep your money in your sock"

My socks are full of holes, damn it.

Just $59 billion in debt is torpedoing dubaiistan? Maybe they should ask al queda & the taliban for their money back. But I'm sure they took a financial hit when Michael jackson died.

And vern-nobody listens to you for financial advice, Mr. $30 a barrel for oil.

This is like a final cough after you've had the flu. It reminds you of how bad you've felt, but it's not a sign of further disaster. There will be selective opportunities.

European banks stand to take most of the hit. I would like to see HSBC get smacked, I dislike those guys.

Dubai is like the kid that moves out and spends way beyond it's means. Mommy and daddy (Saudi and Abu Dhabi) will be along after Hajj to clean up the mess. Dubai is a dream world run by nut-jobs. Build it and they will come and then go away again when they realize the place is a sham.


Any idears at all


keep your money in your sock

#11 | Posted by bruceaz


Buy low--Sell high!

Problem is Ray, the dollar will strengthen with this crisis...which is not good for commodities short term.

Longer term gold's a lay up!

Thank your Mr. and Mrs. American taxpayer for your generous donation.

Outrage over Citi loan to Dubai

The US public will be "outraged" by Citibank's $8 billion loan to Dubai just six weeks after the bank was bailed out, US House of Representatives domestic policy subcommittee chair-man has said. Dennis Kucinich commented on the Dubai loan and other US banking investments as a congressional panel released a report that strongly questioned Citibank's actions. The report, shown to 7DAYS, cites the Dubai loan as the largest of the "questionable transactions" by banks after the US government bailed them out. It notes that the loan to Dubai's public sector came on December 14, just six weeks after the US government gave Citibank a $25 billion bail-out.

The report quotes Win Bischoof, then chairman of Citi, as saying the bank agreed to the Dubai loan because "we continue to place the Gulf region among our globally most significant markets". The report also questions JP Morgan's $1 billion investment in India and Bank of America's $7 billion investment in China. "When the American people find that their tax dollars, which were supposed to be used to get us out of this financial crisis, are instead being used to ship jobs and investments overseas, there will be outrage," Kucinich said. The report notes the loans were not illegal and that it is not known if they were directly funded by bail-out funds. A Citibank official was quoted at the time as saying the $8 billion came from the bank's own funds and third party sources. The report was released as the committee prepares to question banking chiefs about their use of bail-out funds.

Either Ray or I are right. Either way, it's big trouble.


I think they are both wrong, but if I was to bet on it, I'd definitely bet on Ray. RiR has never been right about anything I can recall and he wears political blinders as a matter of choice. It's a poor investment strategy.

I see gold hitting maybe 1500 before it begins to fall too, but not because gold will go up on the global market, rather because the dollar is heading south at breakneck speed, as I said last month. On the global market gold may actually decline. You can bet Dubai will dump a fair share of gold if the stock market in America and the dollar continue to decline. Why compound the problem when gold is at a record high.

BTW...The Japanese Yen hit a 14 year low this morning. I cleaned up on a sell position few saw coming.

NG3 I have heard some 30 dollar forecasts, from people who know the commodity extremely well. To say it can't happen is rearview mirror driving in nature. Why don't YOU tell us why it can't occur?

Dave

I's always amazing how whenever the dollar threatens to break through some critical support level, some external event appears out of nowhere to save the buck. 74 is the next critical support level. When, and I do mean when, it breaks 72 there is nothing below but Hades.

Gold's falling today ringmaster, care to tell us why?

I have sold all gold and gold related positions into this rally. You have had 3 upside moves, a broadening top, or declining volume. Generally one of my rules is you sell that type of move. If the dollar strengthens from here it will pull back more....

or=on

I don't disagree with that assessment, and I am only referring to trading positions. LT dollar weakness is baked into the cake...

Emerging markets currencies and bonds are at a 9 year high. Time for the risk trades to come off the table...

Larry, I learned stock basics from using Google (actually I was using ask jeeves or some bullshit back then) and then I had a 5 month deployment and I filled the free time by learning about stock options and advanced strategies. Needless to say, I learned about these strategies in right near the beginning of the worst of the Dow drop in 2008 and lost a ton, but I'm glad to have learned.

You can learn about stock options from sites like investopedia and then just fucking around with a sample account. It really started clicking when I started making deals with "practice money" from optionsxpress.

Ringmaster

I suggest you give a lot of thought as to where can money find safety as the central banks keep creating money like there is no tomorrow. Hint: gold and silver have been rising against every world currency since 2001. That's just my opinion.

Andy I think option express is another highly rated site. For me I ONLY sell covered calls.....

Andyuhenet

...and then I had a 5 month deployment..

The other day I think you mentioned you were going to be deployed again in May? I sure hope you'll continue to keep in touch with us here on DR while you're away.

You sound like someone who really knows what you are talking about Dave, but I gave up trading in stocks and with gold I only invest in small amounts I can buy dirt cheap and sell as soon as I can see 100% profit. I sure wouldn't bet the farm on it like I have seen a few friends do. I do trade in the FOREX and only one currency, the yen. It's been very successful once I stopped listening to the experts about market analysis. No need for all the graphing. The FOREX can be predicted by the news and research. The graphs only tell you what happened and to calculate probabilities of what will happen. News analysis is much more predictable. I was never good at stocks, but I'm an excellent researcher so I do well with the currency exchange.

The commodity market and politics is key to Dubai's problems. They were swimming in profits when the oil market was manipulated just before Bush was on his way out. Dubai wasn't keeping it's eye on the ball. They were betting it would not end that quick. Same thing will happen with gold. It's just a matter of time.

DavetheWave --

My dear blogging nemesis, lol.

I know you're a finance guy but do you know anything about hiring realtors to sell a house? In other words, what to look for, what to sign or not sign on the contract with a realtor? What to be careful in doing when hiring a real estate agent when you're the seller.

I'm going to be selling my house soon and I've got about three different realtors nipping at my heels -- each with different selling styles. I haven't signed with anyone yet.

I know to only sign a 3 month contract (not six months), but any other suggestions as to what to put on my contract agreement before signing with one of them? I don't want to go to the expense of hiring a real estate lawyer as I don't feel I need one. It's a simple house sale. But most realtors seem to want to price low, get their commission and move on. I wanted to go for a high listing price and then come down in price if I need to -- not start low in price.

If you don't know about real estate that's okay. Just pass my post by and forget it. Thanks.

I used "Sharebuilders" online stock trading company to buy some stock. Only $9.99 per transaction to buy or sell so no fee for a stockbroker. Not a bad deal.

Chris--my advice to you would be to pick the one you feel most comfortable working with, and the one whom you feel will give you the best advice with respects to the price. It's also a good idea to pick the busiest realtor, not the one who obviously really needs the listing. But the most important aspect is the one you feel you can trust most easily.

And you're right--there's no need to hire a real estate lawyer.

Thanks, RightisRight. Appreciate your advice.

Good luck with the house and the move. Where did you decide to go again? Can't remember.

For what it's worth Chris, as you may well know, now is a terrible time to sell in California. Markets go up and markets go down. It is way down now, but if you must sell, try and sell it on your own for a while. The internet has some great resources for that. Craigs list is watched by millions of cash buyers.

What ever you do though, have a lawyer look over any contract if you are not comfortable with the legalese or if the property is developed (like a house on it) or has leans or a mortgage, even if you use a Realtor. Realtor's scruples go down in proportion to their desperation.

Pay especially good attention to any disclosure forms. I sold three pieces of property in the past ten years and did great without the 6% and invasion of privacy a Realtor will demand and probably faster then any Realtor could because the price was within reason without the 6% commission. That 6% is a down payment for some buyers.

Markets will probably trade sideways to down over the next 3- 4 weeks and then the first of the year move forward again--next week should be down--shorted the market last week since the weekly had the dow knocking the top of it's head on the upper Bollinger band---precious metals are still the place to be over the next 5 years---commodities are questionable at best although I still like the charts and they haven't broken down yet---don't think this Dubai issue will be a big deal although we'll know for sure by the first part of next week--would like to see a minor pullback because still sitting with 25% cash.

Same thing will happen with gold. It's just a matter of time.

#32 | Posted by RingMaster

I'll take that bet.


Andy I think option express is another highly rated site. For me I ONLY sell covered calls.....

#30 | Posted by DavetheWave

Don't sell covered calls any longer since I've been called out of positions of stocks that eventually took off---once I missed a move of 300% in 6 months---do very well researching stocks--figure out future trends and then invest accordingly.

I do a lot of covered call writing too; I don't have a lot of positions on right now, because I was called out on almost all of them last Friday. When I put them on again, I'll be going deep in-the-money for Dec/Jan expiry.

Probably not a bad idea---you must think we're going to be correcting for awhile---am I correct?

I don't know. We've had about five years worth of stock market gains in the past six months alone.

I think markets are so out of line with economic fundamentals that it wouldn't surprise me to go down 30% or more in a blink. But I can't really manage money that way. I just pick strong stocks with little or no debt, take the deep in-the-money's for 2.5-3.5% gains for the next two months' expirations. Take today: I have a 3% position in Hecla, which got just killed along with the rest of the gold complex. But I had written the December 5 calls against the entire position two weeks ago, and as long as HL remains over $5, I keep 7.5% on the covered write, with about a 22% downside protection. Then next month, I'll look for something else.

Clients see a lot of activity in the account, and all the gains are short-term, so taxed at regular income tax rates. But they were out of the market completely from September 08 through April 09, with a 20% ultrashort position the whole time. Then I started adding covered writes on the long side starting the last week of April. Naturally, they're very happy they missed the 40% downdraft during that time.

And I use OptionsExpress almost exclusively for my strategy screener. It's awesome. All the clients' funds are at Ameritrade.

Well, RIR, that post is really interesting. My biggest position is HECLA--- I feel this stock is just beginning its move and have owned it since it was 1 last March--- if you look at a longterm chart the volume is huge--it just broke over the 200 week moving average and closed right there---I have a gut feeling this recovery may be better then anticipated---the baltic dry index is pulling back again, however I lovr the shape of the 50 week moving average --time will tell, however, I'll add again to HECLA on a pullback---love the chart.

Why don't YOU tell us why it can't occur?

I've just been waiting for Vern's prediction to come true for about three years. Why won't it?
Because when the demand starts to drop, assuming that it does, and I doubt it will drop much more, the supply will amazingly drop as well. Much as they are beloved by you conservatives, oil companies don't work as charities. Commodity prices have to exceed production costs and that definitley ain't happening. ME oil has basically peaked, regardless of saudistan's lies, and that is the last bastion of cheap oil.

Financial Reporting System (FRS)1 ranged from about $3.87 per barrel (excluding taxes) in Central and South America to about $10.00 per barrel in Canada. The average for the U.S. was $8.35 per barrel (an increase of 18.5 percent over the $7.05 per barrel cost in 2006).

Besides the direct costs associated with removing the oil from the ground, substantial costs are incurred to explore for and develop oil fields (called "finding" costs), and these also vary substantially by region. Finding costs averaged over 2005, 2006, and 2007, ranged from about $4.77 per barrel in the Middle East to $49.54 per barrel for the U.S. offshore. While technological advances in finding and producing oil have made it possible to bring oil to the surface from more remote reservoirs at ever increasing depths, such as in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico, the total finding and lifting costs have increased sharply in recent years

www.eia.doe.gov

China and India seem poised to soak up any demand slump from the US.

Well if you feel that way about Hecla, but just want to make a little more money, you can consider selling the January 7.5 calls. At the close today they fetched $.35, or $35 per 100 shares. If it runs over $7.5, they'll get called away. But the static return based on today's close of $6.32 is 5.9%, which annualizes to 42.2%. Not a bad deal, IMO. Plus, by selling the call, you would reduce your cost basis by $.35 a share.

Thanks, we live in interesting times and I love to talk markets with other interested folks---have done my own investing for years and fortunately, have been quite successful and out-performed the experts.

that's where the money is RIR, obviously. In general I don't like options, I can make/lose enough money w/o having to leverage my positions. Most of my 'friends' who sell them should have just sold the position outright. Deep in the money obviously have no time value, but they sure do pay well don't they?????

Chris, you La Raza lover you, that's a great question. keep in mind whoever you do settle on, probably won't be the one who sells it. I'd look for someone who has a track record of success, seems hard working, offers sellers' home warranty (protects against major appliance failure in your home while listed)....and will work for 2% (a discount off of the 3%) commission.

The av MO is to over appraise your house just to get the listing, then beats you up to accept less then it's worth. That's just the way things work, and I can't really 'hold' anyone responsible for 'how the world turns'.

My sympathies, selling a house can really be a trying experience. You have to fix the place up, keep it clean always, and face making a MAJOR financial decision. if you are partnered, one of you will want to just dump it, the other wants to hold out for a reasonable value. There ARE NO EASY DECISIONS.

Remember it only takes one buyer to change everything. May they find your home...today!!!

When my ex and I sold our house in 2006...the hot water (gas) system crapped out 36 hrs before the sale closed. The warranty covered a 1,500 repair for no charge to us!


Well if you feel that way about Hecla, but just want to make a little more money, you can consider selling the January 7.5 calls. At the close today they fetched $.35, or $35 per 100 shares. If it runs over $7.5, they'll get called away. But the static return based on today's close of $6.32 is 5.9%, which annualizes to 42.2%. Not a bad deal, IMO. Plus, by selling the call, you would reduce your cost basis by $.35 a share.

#48 | Posted by rightisright

Gold tends to be seasonal and Sept-- March is the usually the strongest move. Since silver is "poor man's gold" and it moves in tandem with gold I'll often watch my charts and when they usuall peak in Feb. or March will often sell in the money leaps (january of the following year) or sept of the same year when the move starts over. The premiums are usually excellent and when silver sells off in the summer, I can buy the options back and keep my position.

i'll take ten of each, just ship them COD to...

When Black Friday comes
I'll stand down by the door
And catch the grey men when they
Dive from the fourteenth floor
When Black Friday comes
I'll collect everything I'm owed
And before my friends find out
I'll be on the road
When Black Friday falls you know it's got to be
Don't let it fall on me


Steely Dan

Summers is an industry rep who primary task is to ensure the smooth transfer of public wealth to corporate plutocrats. He even opposed the extension of unemployment benefits believing that greater hardship would push wages down even further.

From Summer's point of view, the America Rescue and Recovery Act has worked out just dandy. The unions are getting walloped, 8 million people are out of work, the labor market is in the worst shape it's been since the Great Depression, and the blood-flow of stimulus is about to get choked-off sometime in the next two quarters. Hey, it's morning in America!

But, as we noted earlier, Summers is a good economist, so maybe there is an economic reason for his opposition to more stimulus. Could it have to do with the output gap? Since Lehman Bros collapsed, the output gap (which is the difference between an economy's actual output and its potential output) has been at record lows. That means that there is not sufficient demand to take up the slack in the economy. The only way to resolve that problem (when the Fed is in a liquidity trap and consumers are slashing spending) is to get money into the hands of people who will spend it. That means more government spending, thus, more stimulus.

But there won't be another round of stimulus because Summers and his sniveling companion Geithner won't allow it. They have other plans. Oh yeah, Wall Street and the banking Goliaths will still get as much monetary stimulus as they need (under the phony moniker of "quantitative easing", liquidity swaps, or excess reserves) But as for the working slob -- zilch.

Summers' assignment is to bring the broader economy to its knees; to crush big labor by keeping unemployment high, to force state and local and governments to privatize more public assets and services, and to generate as much human misery as possible. In short, Summers is laying the groundwork for structural adjustment within the US, a policy which reflects his ongoing commitment to multinational corporations and neoliberalism. It's the shock doctrine redux. These people are monsters.

Excerpted from Mike Whitney @ Counterpunch

AS I've said for some time, Obama is just a front man for corporations, investment bankers and those that control government---I hope Ron Paul's proposed legislation to audit the federal reserve becomes reality---you think the American people are angry now, you haven't seen anything when they find what has been going on behind the scenes---I would love to see the fed neutralized and this country go back to the gold standard or some alternative that would destroy wallstreet and the banking industry's control and make it possible once again for the "working man" to make a real wage not destroyed by the unlimited creation of money and inflation (which since 1971 have enriched wallstreet and the bankers and decreased the real wages of those that work).

Dubai Default Threat Causes Stocks to Drop

And the unwinding and deleveraging of the global ponzi scheme continues with a rush to the bottom by deflation/inflation to see who can win--it's possible there may be a tie and both will win---called stagflation.

Serious deregulation and class warfare against labor began during the Reagan era. Eleven years ago Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner were part of a team that deregulated derivatives trading. Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin led the deregulatory charge and pushed Brookley Born out of the Chicago Commodities Exchange, since she was determined to protect the public interest by regulating derivatives trading.

Today two of the same people are in charge. Bernanke, Geithner and Summers are transferring public wealth to global corporations while employment stagnats and Cities, Counties and States ponder privatizing public assets. The only way out is Government spending which puts money in the hands of ordinary people. But the monsters in charge refuse to do this, as they continue to provide as much free capital to Wall Street and their banking goliaths becoming ever more "too big to fail".

The Shock Doctrine has been played out in other parts of the world and there's nowhere left to play but domestically. The only way to save this country is to fire Bernanke, Geithner and Summers and make sure similar "free market" double-speak ideologues do not replace them.

The only way to save this country is to fire Bernanke, Geithner and Summers and make sure similar "free market" double-speak ideologues do not replace them.

Nutcase suffers from word confusion. The laws against fraud and theft haven't been repealed; they were ignored. The gang of Greenspan, Bernanke, Geithner and Summers gave Wall Street a license to steal. "Deregulation" is a poor choice of words to describe said crimes; there is no free market. Deregulation in a real free market environment does not allow for criminal activity. It means to be free from government oppression.

This country needs more freedom in the marketplace and less government. Not more government and less freedom.

Believe it or not the mainstream media cast FDR as a champion of the working class but he was in the pocket of wallstreet as much as any president(if you study history on your own)---firing Obama and his minions won't make any difference if you replace them with the same ilk---the names may change but the same fraud will be perpetrated--- democracy is not rule by the people but rule by politicians---the only way to get rule back to the people and wealth morphed backed to the average man (an increase in real wages) is to structurally change how this country manufactures money. How?--you go back to the gold standard-- Why?---when you link money creation to gold and it's price you'll no longer allow the existence of the "government sachs" of this world---when Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971 you gave the green light to the fed and politicians to create money out of thin air and the great ponzi scheme that got us to where we are today accelerated----1972 was the highpoint for "real wages" in this country--you see the correlation?

free market" double-speak ideologues do not replace them.

#58 | Posted by nutcase

The irony is that we haven't had "free markets" for years---the Summers and Geithners of this world don't believe in free markets; they believe in a socialistic government system (has been present for years) where government and big business have an incestuous relationship where they control the movement of capital to investment banks, big business, etc.---it's amazing how they sell the fact that we have "free markets" to the American people and the American people suck it up without thinking for themselves and figuring out their minds are being manipulated again.

Why?---when you link money creation to gold and it's price you'll no longer allow the existence of the "government sachs" of this world

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard reports, "that the rising economic powers of Asia, the Middle East, and the commodity bloc are rejecting Western fiat currencies. China, India, and Russia have all been buying gold on a large scale over recent months."
blogs.telegraph.co.uk

Throughout written history, whoever has the gold makes the rules. The US had the gold up to 1971. Now it's all gone. The sheep are still asleep. Their awakening comes in the next decade.


Serious deregulation and class warfare against labor began during the Reagan era.

#58 | Posted by nutcase

Once again I'm going to follow with some interesting info which you won't find in some of the "mainstream" media which has propagandized this nation for years. FDR was a wallstreeter, a Gordon Gecko type of guy. He had seen how the central bank's expansion of money and credit during WWI and again in 1922-1928 had made the stock market go up and the real wages of the working man go down. His intent was to continue this policy of robbing from the less economically endowed to the wealthy. On his first day in office, he rammed a bill through the new congress to abolish the gold standard and give commercial bankers the privilege to print money. They have been printing money for the last 75 years.


Throughout written history, whoever has the gold makes the rules. The US had the gold up to 1971. Now it's all gone. The sheep are still asleep. Their awakening comes in the next decade.

#62 | Posted by Ray

They say we still have the gold and that's one of the reasons Ron Paul's bill sends a shutter down their spine---one of the things the audit would do is reveal how much gold we really have in the vaults, how much of it has been leased and to who, and what the inflation rate of our money has really been, and if and who has been involved in the manipulation of the gold price over the years.

There was a time when Spain had all the gold. Look where it got them.

The foundation to prosperity is real production. Our economic system has been hi-jacked by paper pushers. Lawyers, accountants, lobbyists and politicians have manipulated law in such a manner as to divert the profits of production to speculation and fraud. Finance, Insurance and Real Estate were 2% of US Corporate profits in the fifties and 40% today. This is wrong, but continues under current leadership.

That said, free markets are a mythical simplified model of real economic activity. Contrary to the principals of thoughtful leaders such as Jesus, and Martin Luther King, the only real principle driving our economy is jungle law. Big fish eat little fish. The concepts of Freedom and Democracy have been exploited by an Oligarchy into order to shift public opinion and government policy to their personal advantage. They serve up Bill Gates and Warren Buffet as proof while ignoring hundreds of millions of contrary examples.

Ray exhibits a better understanding of economics than most people on this site. He is correct when he states that laws have been ignored by our regulators. But that is not true of the derivatives market whose value is reported to be $600 trillion today. All laws for this market were suspended by Phil Gramm, Chris Dodd.... This suspension continues even though it led directly to the crash of Long Term Capital Management, Bear-Stearns and Lehman Bros.....and mindboggling bailouts on the backs of the working class. Government regulation is not the problem today, reversion to jungle law is the problem.

They say we still have the gold and that's one of the reasons Ron Paul's bill sends a shutter down their spine

Some very good analysts who follow the money say that Robert Rubin, when he was Clinton's Treasury Secretary, authorized gold leasing, to disguise the gold giveaway. Clinton was using the proceeds to narrow his budget deficits. He certainly did not reduce this spending.

There are rumors that the Treasury had the missing gold bars replaced with gold plated tungsten bars. Tungsten has a weight density very close to gold. The Chinese were the first to discover the fraud when they drilled some bars.

He is correct when he states that laws have been ignored by our regulators. But that is not true of the derivatives market whose value is reported to be $600 trillion today. All laws for this market were suspended by Phil Gramm, Chris Dodd.

Don't believe that for a second. Derivatives have been, and still are, a major force in holding down commodity prices and other manipulations that fatten banking profits. That's another accident waiting to happen as the economy unwinds.

Government regulation is not the problem today, reversion to jungle law is the problem.

The Federal Reserve and fractional reserve banking is a product of regulation. Its collapse is a foregone certainty. I'm sorry to say that regulations, as they have been designed, are based on the law of the jungle - to protect business interests against the general public.

Alao, interesting is that his under-secretary Summers gave a talk on Gibson's paradox--- during the gold standard era interest rates and general level of prices were correlated. Normally when long term interest rates decline the price of gold increases--however, during the clinton era under Summers, when interest rates declined gold prices also declined--the Clinton administration knew full well that they couldn't allow gold prices to rise since it would signal inflation and would hurt their ability to leverage America's future for their own political gain---VOILA, gold was suppressed by behind the scenes manipulation (most likely with the bullion banks--JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, etc.).

The foundation to prosperity is real production. Our economic system has been hi-jacked by paper pushers. Lawyers, accountants, lobbyists and politicians have manipulated law in such a manner as to divert the profits of production to speculation and fraud. Finance, Insurance and Real Estate were 2% of US Corporate profits in the fifties and 40% today. This is wrong, but continues under current leadership.


Government regulation is not the problem today, reversion to jungle law is the problem.

#65 | Posted by nutcase

Your first paragraph is the perfect reason why we should go back to the gold standard--if we had one, we wouldn't even be discussing your paragraph---it wouldn't have allowed the disaster. Also with the standard, you wouldn't need the amount of regulation we have and the people needed to make sure the regulation was enforced.

At the end of the 19th century (1866--1896) was the greatest economic expansion of any country (U.S.) in history.New inventions flowed from the minds of man and eventually mass produced resulting in the real wages of the average working man rising 90%. That era compares with the last 37 years that has shown a decrease in the real wages of the working man especially the last 9 years.---what is the difference?--the U.S. was on the gold standard at the end of the 19th century. 1972 was the high point for wages and medium income--what happened? Nixon in 1971 took the world's reserve currency off the gold standard. From the late 19th century to the early 20th century, the stock market was essentially flat-- in other words, man was rewarded through real effort and not through the machinations of money and paper creation.

"At the end of the 19th century (1866--1896) was the greatest economic expansion of any country (U.S.) in history"

It was also characterized by the highest level of protectionist tariffs in the industrial world. The "gold standard" is crackpot economics.

The "gold standard" is crackpot economics.

#70 | Posted by nullifidian

I'll remind you of that statement as our economy deteriorates under the weight of all the worthless paper you hold---you may hold your paper for the next ten years and I'll hold my gold and we'll see who comes out ahead.

It was also characterized by the highest level of protectionist tariffs in the industrial world.

#70 | Posted by nullifidian

Let's see--the electric light, the telephone, the automobile, the age of the railroads, and the beginning of crude oil---I don't think there were tariffs on these items.

It was also characterized by the highest level of protectionist tariffs in the industrial world.

#70 | Posted by nullifidian

After Abraham Lincoln and at the end of the 19th century (half a century) it is well recognized by those who know what the heck they're talking about free trade was generally the order of the day and didn't change much until European politicians began erecting trade barriers right at the end of the 19th century which eventually exploded in the hostilities leading to WWI.

Once again you're NULLIFIED.

Facts are inconvenient things for free market ideologues.

"Between the 1830s and the end of the second world war, the US had one of the highest average tariff rates on manufacturing imports in the world. Since it had an exceptionally high degree of natural protection due to the high costs of transporting goods to the US at least until the 1870s, we can say that US industries were the most protected in the world until 1945."

www.globalpolicy.org

#74 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-11-28 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag: Ignores inconvenient facts constantly

The cost of government and its intervention in the market economy were a fraction of what they are today. But of course I've been lecturing this for years to the same deaf ears.

Now that capitalism is dead, it's all downhill. I've got my money on it. You and your ilk, fucked yourselves, Nulli.

The "gold standard" is crackpot economics.
#70 | Posted by nullifidia

This is laughable. Fiat currencies ended in disaster every time they were tried - no exceptions. We've been off the gold standard almost forty years and already the rest of the world are looking for alternatives.

Gold up 400% in eight years with no top in sight. See my post #62.

The point is that we haven't had free markets in this country for years---whenever, you have government control of the printing of money and allocation of capital there is not a free and true market---some would define the misallocation of capital by government as a form of socialism. We need to get back to more of a free market if individuals desire a standard of living that we had many years ago---if they don't then that's the choice we make as a nation.

Gold up 400% in eight years with no top in sight. See my post #62.

#76 | Posted by Ray

As posted in #71; in the next 10 years I'll stack up my gold against Nully's paper.

All of the of the 1830's of course brought about the Nullification Crisis :)
en.wikipedia.org

The planet's population is too big to permit currency tied to gold bullion. There is only enough to fill one football field 1 foot deep, making it impossible for every China man and woman to have one ring.

As to Ray's last regulation point I agree. I tend to think of regulatory changes in light of the last 30 years, not 100. The Fed was instituted allegedly to contain inflation. Its complete failure to fulfill this mandate is no accident, but a predictable consequence of the class war on labor. SWAPS had no stabilizing effect, nor were they gambling. They are part of a completely secret (except the SEC has the authority to know) corrupt marketplace devoid of any and all rules. The players should have been left to collapse into bankruptcy and prison.

As to Ray's last regulation point I agree. I tend to think of regulatory changes in light of the last 30 years, not 100. The Fed was instituted allegedly to contain inflation. Its complete failure to fulfill this mandate is no accident, but a predictable consequence of the class war on labor. SWAPS had no stabilizing effect, nor were they gambling. They are part of a completely secret (except the SEC has the authority to know) corrupt marketplace devoid of any and all rules. The players should have been left to collapse into bankruptcy and prison.

#80 | Posted by nutcase

The Federal Resrve's mandate is to promote effectively the goal of maximum employment, stable prices (inflation related), and moderate long term interest rates.

SWAPS had no stabilizing effect, nor were they gambling. They are part of a completely secret (except the SEC has the authority to know) corrupt marketplace devoid of any and all rules. The players should have been left to collapse into bankruptcy and prison.


#80 | Posted by nutcase


Once again, if the Fsd didn't exist and a standard of some element (for those who don't appreciate gold, how about cow dung) was present you wouldn't have the above problem. Look at it this way; the fed and the printing of money not based on a standard is inversely proportional to the average laborer's standard of living----when the amount of printed money increases (without controls), wallstreet and investment bankers benefit and the average worker suffers; when there are controls the average worker benefits and wallstreet and investment bankers (and government) cannot do the crazy things that put the rest of us at risk.


The planet's population is too big to permit currency tied to gold bullion. There is only enough to fill one football field 1 foot deep, making it impossible for every China man and woman to have one ring.


#80 | Posted by nutcase

When you include silver (poor man's gold) and possibly platinum and palladium the game changes--with the way we're printing money if gold's premium increases too much the people of the world will morph into less expensive metals like palladium and silver. Platinum is a problem since it's more expensive then gold. We've met the enemy and it's us---it's taken years of bad policy and decisions to get us where we are and it won't just be a fortnight to extricate us from this mess.

The planet's population is too big to permit currency tied to gold bullion.

Poppycock! The price of gold is too low. That doesn't preclude other commodities from complementing gold. It all depends on what the market accepts as money.

The Fed was instituted allegedly to contain inflation.

That's how it was sold to the public. The Fed was a currency inflating machine from the beginning. Only the Fed has the authority to expand the money supply that causes inflation. Politicians saw it as a way to tax the public without them suspecting they were being taxed. They saw rising prices as a weakness of capitalism.

Ray > NYSE Rule 48 was "IN" effect at 09:10 Friday

Poppycock! The price of gold is too low.
...

#84 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-28 06:33 PM

According to who? Ludwig Von Duck?

#86 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-11-28 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Never tires of being wrong.

#85 | Posted by realplus5

I had to look up Rule 48. For sure the Dubai announcement was timed for the Thanksgiving weekend to minimize volatility. You may already know that S&P stopped publishing the P/E ratio when it hit 141. If the market survives this one, I don't think it can handle many more.


Poppycock! The price of gold is too low.
...


#84 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-28 06:33 PM


According to who? Ludwig Von Duck?

#86 | Posted by nullifidian

According to who?---answer; according to the past Mr.& Mrs. inflation, the total global asset reserves, and the global debt.

Mat

He's inferring Ludwig von Mises, the primary thinker of Austrian Theory. Nulli doesn't like their free market perspective. See mises.org

Ray spouting his Ayn Rand crap again. Ran thinks he is an economist because he keeps a few gold trinkets in a shoebox under his bed.


Mat


He's inferring Ludwig von Mises, the primary thinker of Austrian Theory. Nulli doesn't like their free market perspective. See mises.org

#91 | Posted by Ray

AAAAAAh, Fredrich's buddy, thanks for the clarification----know him well.

vMat


He's inferring Ludwig von Mises, the primary thinker of Austrian Theory. Nulli doesn't like their free market perspective. See mises.org


#91 | Posted by Ray


AAAAAAh, Fredrich's buddy, thanks for the clarification----know him well.

#93 | Posted by matsop

When some of the ignorant are depressing, I go back and read passages from the "road to Serfdom" again.

Innocent ignorance is understandable. Rationalized ignorance in the face of contrary facts is something else. When bad ideas become popularly accepted, most people will not let them go out of fear of isolation, no matter how self destructive.


When bad ideas become popularly accepted, most people will not let them go out of fear of isolation, no matter how self destructive.

#95 | Posted by Ray

I think that's referred to as "insecurity."

Ray can't refut me because he knows I speak the truth.

Only in your own mind, Jackass, only in your own mind.

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