In the video there are no voices heard with anyone laughing at her while telling her sad story.

That would very insensitive and out of bounds if people did that.

Then they (the video) pulls a Fox and show the people when they were yelling at the congress person. They are showing still photos of the crowd when they were yaking at the congress guy--not when this woman was talking.

It was not the lack of health insurance that caused this woman and her baby to die.

She waited 55 days from the first ER visit and released with a bronchi infection (??) before going back to the ER??

Don't they have Medicaid in IL?

You are allowed to take anti-biotics when pregnant.

Why did this woman not take better care of herself or her baby? Where were the parents and the in-laws during all this??

Very sad story.

Murph notice the part of the article where the organizer of the Chicago t-baggers claims the story was fabricated.

And yes Murph, the woman did die in part due to lack of health insurance. The reason she was not treated in the first place is because the hospital wanted to get her out of their doors because she didn't have insurance. They didn't take the time needed to properly diagnose her.

As for her not going back soon enough, speaking from experience I can tell you that when you are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford any unexpected expenses you put off going for health care.

And yes, Illinois has medicaid, which is a joke. To qualify for medicaid a single person's income cannot exceed $903 per month. Good luck affording an apartment in Chicago on that.

Just more America hating righties.

I thought it was a fetus. Unfortunately it is not odd the fetus now becomes an unborn "child" when the left wants to use them to push an agenda.

Notice how the Huffington post has presented a true Fair and Ballanced report on the incident. They presented BOTH side of the story, including the denial of the teabaggers.

Along comes Mangy Minge Murphy and presents only one side, just like her favorite gnus source.

I guess Nanc will be along any minute to say the dead woman should have been raped first because she was probably a peace marcher or something.

(For you newbies, Nanc has a history of celebrating the rape and murder of young women who were peace marchers.)

It was not the lack of health insurance that caused this woman and her baby to die.

Of course not smurphy.

It was not the lack of health insurance that caused this woman and her baby to die...
....Posted by MURPHY

......no.....that radical leftist baby just died to embarrass Republicans......

Nanc has a history of celebrating the rape and murder of young women who were peace marchers.)

#5 | Posted by axe

I guess you have some facts to back that statement up.

"I guess you have some facts to back that statement up.

#8 | Posted by Sniper"

Don't have time to find the post but I witnessed it first hand.

Free health care is already available to anyone, just like this women.

What did the crooked politicians from IL do with the hundreds of millions in Medicaid funds they were given?

If this story is true, it is sad. Sad that someone someone would not know that free health care is available to her. Sad that someone so ignorant and irresponsible would be pregnant.

If this women was not willing to go to the doctor while she was pregnant, how does the 'health care deform' movement solve this?

Stupid is as stupid does.

Same here SnipDoggy. On a thread about a woman marching through Italy in a wedding gown to protest for peace. Nanc was absolutely delighted about her rape and murder.

Maybe the Teabaggers can join up with Fred Phelps, sounds like they're made for each other.

"It was not the lack of health insurance that caused this woman and her baby to die...
....Posted by MURPHY"

I don't know what caused this woman and her baby to die and neither do you or these Teabag freaks.
What I want to know though, is what makes these freaks laugh about this??? Sick!

Maybe the Teabaggers can join up with Fred Phelps, sounds like they're made for each other.

#12 | Posted by briwo at 2009-11-24 10:59 AM | Reply | Flag

God Hates Tea!
That's salada hate...
Ar Ar Ar!

'I guess Nanc will be along any minute to say the dead woman should have been raped first because she was probably a peace marcher or something.'

#5 | Posted by axe

Don't say TEABAGGER it upsets Sniper.

Just more America hating righties.

#3 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-11-24 12:01 AM

Well, if the fanatics within your party, would not behave in such a way, as to deserve America's derision...

#1 | Posted by MURPHY

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

You are Very Sad, Indeed!

I thought you guys didn't care about an unborn fetus, since it isn't a human life yet. Why all the outrage? Some of you really are silly btches. Lefties of all sorts are the queens of marching and protesting, but when someone else does it, it's teabagger this and unpatriotic. Same old "free speech as long as I agree with it) mentality.

to clarify it was this story

Edited political video content with poor audio quality is not trustworthy no matter what side you are on.

Interesting, this isn't the first time Daniel Hough is cited by the HuffPost:

I thought you guys didn't care about an unborn fetus, since it isn't a human life yet. Why all the outrage? Some of you really are silly btches. Lefties of all sorts are the queens of marching and protesting, but when someone else does it, it's teabagger this and unpatriotic. Same old "free speech as long as I agree with it) mentality.

#18 | Posted by Monster at 2009-11-24 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag

I don't care. The teabagging ballsuckers are free to say what they want, make fun of a woman in grief, what have you. I'm equally free to ridicule them for their obvious hypocrisy. Try to reign in your retardation, it ruins your argument.

Edited political video content with poor audio quality is not trustworthy no matter what side you are on.

#20 | Posted by UpL8 at 2009-11-24 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag

True, I thought the same yesterday when I first saw this. If it happened as it was reported then the report could have been much more powerful and damning without the edits.

"Interesting, this isn't the first time Daniel Hough is cited by the HuffPost"

What is interesting about it?

Just interesting, that's all...

Here's the young lady's full story, guess it was too much research for the Huff...

PS, I wasn't being sarcastic, it is sad.

There wasn't anybody laughing in the video. Watch it for yourselves.

Huffington Post just lost any credibility it may have had. Just another megaphone for the lefties, who lately need all the help they can get.

"Catherina Wojtowicz, of Chicago's Mount Greenwood community, an organizer for a Tea Party splinter group, Chicago Tea Party Patriots, falsely claimed that the Houghs fabricated their story. In an e-mail, she called them operatives of President Barack Obama who "go from event to event and (cry) the same story."

Nice. Real nice.

Hang on a sec...."go from event to event and (cry) the same story."

Would you like fries with your irony?

"retardation"....well...I stand no chance in a debate with you sir. well played. perhaps later you can impress us all with you "nanny nanny boo boo" technique. should be stimulating.

Same here SnipDoggy. On a thread about a woman marching through Italy in a wedding gown to protest for peace. Nanc was absolutely delighted about her rape and murder.

It wasn't italy, it was turkey.

His mom stated that they had just moved to IN for a new start, IN has a subsidized public option:

I think the left just likes the sound of the word teabagger coming out of their mouths. Mmmmmmmmmm Tea Baggerrrrrr!!!!!

They like the way it rolls offthe tongue so smoothly.

Your right RIGHTISRIGHT, she only mentioned that people where laughing for dramatic effect. Please pull your head out, man.

Daughter-in-law?

So, where's their son in all this? I'd expect to hear about him calling for healthcare reform.

Or, is he being sued for negligence?

I would never laugh at someone in this situation, but it's not unheard of for the obama admin to use actors to push the agenda.

"Edited political video content with poor audio quality is not trustworthy no matter what side you are on."

Absolutely...

Interesting there is no actual footage or audio of said 'laughing'
.

Very sad story.

#1 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-11-23 11:07 PM

Your right RIGHTISRIGHT, she only mentioned that people where laughing for dramatic effect. Please pull your head out, man.

#34 | Posted by Fenderwa41
* * * *

Is there another video I didn't see? Where's the laughing?

Here's what I gather from the story. The woman went to the doctor, was examined, and sent home. She came back the next day, was admitted to the hospital, passed out, and died, losing her baby, after 55 days of coma.

So even though she didn't have insurance, the hospital took her in anyway, and cared for her. And while telling the story, nobody was laughing. Nobody interrupted her at all.

The reason she was not treated in the first place is because the hospital wanted to get her out of their doors because she didn't have insurance.

#2 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

Sad situation for this family; also sad is partisan opinion not based on facts---when you read an account from the family, it's pretty obvious that she was receiving medical care throughout her pregnancy. She went to clinics and the E.R. Johnny drinking his hotsauce has evidently fried his brain when he makes the comment about the "the hospital wanting to get her out of their doors because she didn't have insurance"---there is no evidence of that in the account---I've worked in many hospitals and have NEVER and I repeat NEVER seen anyone turned away or not treated because they didn't have insurance---that is total bogus and meant to distort and johnny either doesn't know what he is talking about or at best is dishonest and is attempting to mislead---when we do that sort of thing we're no better then representatives and presidents that we accuse of mis-leading and lying to us.

Very sad story. The family should not have been heckled, the idiot Democrat Rep should have been heckled for furthering the fantasy of deaths due to lack of health insurance. Another brain-dead fuck liberal bent on lying his way into the public's pocket. Shameful. Fortunately it all came from such a highly rated, non-partisan source such as the Huffington Post.

Maybe the Teabaggers can join up with Fred Phelps, sounds like they're made for each other.

Tea baggers consider Phelps too liberal. Hell, they wouldn't even hang out with the nazi skinheads because of that whole National Socialist thing...

FTA: Catherina Wojtowicz, of Chicago's Mount Greenwood community, an organizer for a Tea Party splinter group, Chicago Tea Party Patriots, falsely claimed that the Houghs fabricated their story. In an e-mail, she called them operatives of President Barack Obama who "go from event to event and (cry) the same story." [...]

Catherina (the not-so-great) Wojtowicz, like most rtards, is a factually challenged, rabid, crass, classless, lying moran.

the hospital took her in anyway, and cared for her

You may want to reexamine your definition of "cared for".

Their motto could be, "FU, I GOT MINE".
We have devolved from the Greatest Generation
to the Most Selfish Generation.

People die because they lack insurance every day in this country, SpokaneJim. It's not a fantasy at all -- it's a nightmare.

The grieving mother-in-law makes a good point in that video. Taxpayers are on the hook for the $1.5 million it cost to treat her daughter-in-law as she fell into a coma and died. Universal health care could have provided her with prenatal care that would've been vastly cheaper than what it cost to treat her after she became catastrophically ill.

I also have problems with media and blogs (huffington,etc.) that are misleading in their reporting--this is exactly why we have a degenerating society and why we're in the sad position we are today---maybe, we deserve it since there has been a structural degeneration going on since the 50s---and I'm talking about basic morals --when you sink into the cesspool of "cultural relativism" with the attitude of anything goes and there are no longer any absolutes there is only one way to go and that's down----apologize for moralizing but if we can't see that then we're brain-dead and beyond hope.

More "patriots" in action.

People die because they lack insurance every day in this country, SpokaneJim. It's not a fantasy at all -- it's a nightmare.

#46 | Posted by rcade

No, rcade, that is a completely bogus statement--I would like you to show me any well constructed study that would support that ridiculous statement---that is once again a hysterical concept by some to justify a political agenda---exactly what I've been talking about---the dishonesty rampant in our society.

Matsop you silly SOB, just talk to anybody that works around a hospital!

SoppyMat,

Live cost due to lack of insurance:

Matsop you silly SOB, just talk to anybody that works around a hospital!

#50 | Posted by Mista Kurtz

Guess what I've worked around and in hospitals for years---I'm in the healthcare industry and it always amazes me the misformation and the misinformed like yourself that is out there--you don't have a clue and should probably not blog about something you have no knowledge of.

How many people die due to lack of medicine, but have healthcare?

Is this healthcare reform bill covering all medicine costs?

The hospital I was in a few weeks ago said that people are dying, not from lack of care, but because they didn't buy their medicine.

An elderly person may choose food over medicine, and therefore buy less or take less of their medicine.

From the nurses I talked to, they don't think the bill is looking at medicine - medicine is needed on top of hospital care. It does no good to see the doctor and not go to the pharmacy.

Overall Health Status and Productivity
It has been estimated

www.acponline.org

Cost to Americans for un/under insured:

www.acponline.org

Your talking points are even denied by the staunchest Repulican in Congress.

#51 | Posted by Reagan58

The key word in that statement is ESTIMATED---once again , show me a well constructed study that supports the allegations (that has now dropped down to 18,000) that lack of insurance causes all kinds of death.

How many people die due to lack of medicine, but have healthcare?

Is this healthcare reform bill covering all medicine costs?

The hospital I was in a few weeks ago said that people are dying, not from lack of care, but because they didn't buy their medicine.

An elderly person may choose food over medicine, and therefore buy less or take less of their medicine.

From the nurses I talked to, they don't think the bill is looking at medicine - medicine is needed on top of hospital care. It does no good to see the doctor and not go to the pharmacy.

#53 | Posted by Petrous

Thank you, Petrous, that is an appropriate statement. Although, if elderly the bill (horrors-pushed by Bush and now in place for meds) has done a lot to alleviate that situation although if on a large number of expensive meds can be a problem.

Bottom line: very poor attempt at jumping over the low bar set by Michael Moore. You know - creative editing to make the film fit the headline? Piss-poor.

Move along folks. You've all (on both sides of the political fence) spouted most of your same old tired insults here.

"Although, if elderly the bill (horrors-pushed by Bush and now in place for meds) has done a lot to alleviate that situation although if on a large number of expensive meds can be a problem."

Yeah, pushed by Bush and the Republicans, including the part that prohibits Medicare from negotiating for lower drug prices like the VA does, like insurance comapnies do. Blatant give away of billions yet rarely do I hear Republicans complaining about it.

"You've all (on both sides of the political fence) spouted most of your same old tired insults here."

Including Mr. Fair with his cheap shot at Michael Moore and thus the left.

Danni - ever been treated at a VA Hospital?

The next admendment in the Health Care Bill is paying people "reasonable salaries" while they are in the hospital or visiting a doctor. It doesn't matter if they don't have a job or are on the government dole, the taxpayer needs to pay for their inconvience of going to a Hospital or Doctor. Don't they have a right to be paid?

To blame this woman and childs (fetus for the liberals) death on the nations Health Care System is another stage show brought on by the people that want to suck your wallet dry. As others have said; Where was her Husband the whole time, her in-laws if so concerned should of brought her to the hospital sooner and the Hospital did take her in. Bad things happen all the time, get used to it. Even people with good insurance can get a raw deal with Hospitals. You are responsible for your own health - so take care of yourself.

#58 No I am still here, little Danni.

And FYI it is impossible to take a cheap shot at Fatso Moore, who engorges himself at the trough he's always criticizing.

And yes Murph, the woman did die in part due to lack of health insurance. The reason she was not treated in the first place is because the hospital wanted to get her out of their doors because she didn't have insurance. They didn't take the time needed to properly diagnose her.

As for her not going back soon enough, speaking from experience I can tell you that when you are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford any unexpected expenses you put off going for health care.

And yes, Illinois has medicaid, which is a joke. To qualify for medicaid a single person's income cannot exceed $903 per month. Good luck affording an apartment in Chicago on that.

#2 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

You just said that she died from a lack of health insurance and followed it up with saying she didn't go in for treatment because of money. Sounds to me that it was a lack of money and sheer desire to get herself healthy that did the trick. If I were in a dire medical situation without health insurance I would do everything in my power to get care. It sounds to me like she didn't do enough. There is always medicare.

including the part that prohibits Medicare from negotiating for lower drug prices like the VA does, like insurance comapnies do.

#57 | Posted by danni

Absolutely correct.

There is always medicare.

#62 | Posted by everlong

For her it would have to be medicaid---when you read the family's synopsis of events she did receive care throughout her pregnancy.

No, rcade, that is a completely bogus statement--I would like you to show me any well constructed study that would support that ridiculous statement---that is once again a hysterical concept by some to justify a political agenda---exactly what I've been talking about---the dishonesty rampant in our society.

It's classy of you to call me dishonest because I disagree with you.

What do you think happens when people have preventable diseases but don't seek regular medical care because (a) they don't have insurance, and (b) the out-of-pocket costs for medical providers are exorbitantly high?

They wait until something is an emergency, at which point the chances of prevention are gone. Lack of insurance kills people every day in this country. I've read a hundred stories like this woman's.

Have you ever asked in advance what the cost of a procedure would be if you paid for it yourself instead of getting insurance to pay it? Hospitals quote one price to the public and another deeply discounted one to insurers.

The system of funding health care in this country is completely broken. Private insurers have known this for years and done absolutely jack shit to fix it.

That's why we need the government to do it.

"The system of funding health care in this country is completely broken. Private insurers have known this for years and done absolutely jack shit to fix it.

That's why we need the government to do it."

Well worth repeating!

Matsop,

Actually, what our liberal friends are trying to explain is that in IN where she was hospitalized, they have a taxpayer subsidized public option. Isn't it obvious that if there was a national public option they woul've been so much better off!

Rogers, I agree 100% the system is broken. But the Government is not going to fix it, even if you gave them unlimited funds.

Danni,

Part d does negotiate drug prices through the ins co that admin the plans, however they do not dictate prices as VA does

That's why we need the government to do it.

The mantra of the weak. I was actually disgusted when I read it.

"That's why we need the government to do it."

The mantra of the weak. I was actually disgusted when I read it.

#70 | Posted by JOE

Were you disgusted when you accepted government-subsidized student loans, Joe Galt?

I love tea, pour me another cup please.
You lefties love to make shit up and bend the facts about tea party people, well it want work...

#65----"hospitals quote one price to the public and another deeply discounted one to insurers."

RCADE

Actually, Rcade, it's the other way around----those who have no insurance and minimal income, the hospitals will attempt to have them sign up for medicaid and collect some reimbursement for the services given. If they don't fall under medicaid, they'll often let the individual walk and write the loss off. For those with no insurance that are employed and have decent assets and incomes they'll work out an amount for those services that is discounted from what is normally paid by the insurance companies for the insured. Now this is where it gets interesting---because of losses from medicare, medicaid, and the uninsured that don't pay anything, you then get "cost-shifting" to the insurance companies and the insured who pay more to make up for the losses incurred through the government system and the uninsured---Why do you think GM has been so unsuccessful? There are many reasons but one is the cost-shifting to their cadillac plans for the workers--they aren't paying for the actual costs of their workers but for covering for the government system losses and the self-insured losses--$1500.00/car--one of the reasons Toyota beats the pants off them---I don't think your current post is dishonest, just misinformed.

What a moronic comparison. The majority of my student loans were private. Either way, you don't have to oppose everything government does to oppose something that it plans to do in the future. No surprise that you're the one making such a stupid argument.

I'd never enroll in government insurance (that is, until they run private insurers out of business). That's the only accurate comparison to make here. Again, this might be beyond your brain capacity. And that's okay.

Matsop,

Actually, what our liberal friends are trying to explain is that in IN where she was hospitalized, they have a taxpayer subsidized public option. Isn't it obvious that if there was a national public option they woul've been so much better off!

#67 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

Now. that's an interesting bit of info---I didn't know that--Thanks.

Someone close to me who works in Washington and on this healthcare legislation was just hired to a prestigious position with CMS (center for medicaid and medicare services)---what she told me ought to put a little fear and trepidation into some of you. She mentioned that currently there is no way for the system to completely (or come close to)stamp out fraud and abuse within M&M since they don't have the systems and software in place to do it. And you want to give us more of the same--may God have mercy on our souls and pocketbooks.

RIGHTisRIGHT,

Why did she mention that people where Laughing??? I also didnt hear anyone breathing in the audience does that mean they weren't???? She mentioned it because she saw people laughing. She wouldnt have mentioned it if she didnt. You know it, I know it. Unless you really believe this women was just saying that for effect. If that is the case, why?

'Actually, Rcade, it's the other way around----those who have no insurance and minimal income, the hospitals will attempt to have them sign up for medicaid and collect some reimbursement for the services given. If they don't fall under medicaid, they'll often let the individual walk and write the loss off.'

#73 | Posted by matsop

Wrong again mophead! You should go watch SICKO and EDUMACATE yerself!

I had gall bladder removal and the the price quote BEFORE insurance discount was over 24,000. AFTER discount was around 6,000.

If the hospital is willing to discount the price 75% for an insurance company why can they not give that same discount to someone who walks in with no insurance?

Figure out this one and you will have solved the problem with the 'Health Care Industry.'

This is a GREAT example of WHY we need to get a public option.

Monst, Rcade, and Mats, it appears to me you are both correct and both wrong.

Mats is correct that a cost shift does occur towards insurance companies. Families USA, a healthcare reform advocacy group, did a study that determined the average insured family ends up paying over $1,000 per year extra in premiums because health care facilities try to recoup some loss if treating the uninsured from the insurance companies.

Monst and Rcade are correct that the uninsured pay more for treatment than insurance companies pay for that same treatment. Johns Hopkins did a study a few years back that showed that uninsured patients are billed on average 2.5x more than private insurance companies for the same treatment and 3x more than Medicare is billed.

"By the design of the program, the federal government is not permitted to negotiate prices of drugs with the drug companies, as federal agencies do in other programs. The Veterans Administration, which is allowed to negotiate drug prices and establish a formulary, pays 58% less for drugs, on average, than Medicare Part D.[32] For example, Medicare pays $785 for a year's supply of Lipitor (atorvastatin), while the VA pays $520. Medicare pays $1,485 for Zocor, while the VA pays $127."

Quoting SICKO? Didn't the Brother's Grimm write that one?

Part of the reason why healthcare providers charge so much more than they get paid has to do with contract negotiations. It's pretty simple, the Medicare Statistical Analysis units gather billing data from claims that come in and determine what the average billed amount is by procedure and then come up for a recommended fee schedule (see the current discussion in House on "dr fix") - the higher the avg billed amount that goes into the formulas, hopefully the more they'll get paid.

Many insurance plans across the country then use this fee schedule and add a percentage as a starting point to negotiate private contracts with providers.

So, why can't the hospital bill for the Medicare allowable?

1. This would cause a reactionary rate drop across the board
2. Medicare states that they cannot BILL an uninsured ind. less than a Medicare ind.

Simple.

Rogers, I agree 100% the system is broken. But the Government is not going to fix it, even if you gave them unlimited funds.

#68 | Posted by MrFair

If it comes down to betting on who is more likely to fix the Health Care crisis in the US and the choices are the Industry itself and the Government only a moron would bet on the Industry.

Throwing your hands in the air and saying "Can't be done" is not a solution.

Be Well.

Nobody is saying the system ain't broke, it is. Montsman is right, insurance companies negotiate rates with hospitals and other providers. I've had a number of major operations, all with costs drastically discounted once the insurance companies were involved. But that has nothing to do with whether someone with a medical emergency, or a poor family needing obstetrical care, can get health care. Everyone walking into a hospital will get the care they need. They cannot be turned away. Federal law. Feel free to walk in and read the large, easily visible signs. It is the government bills that are bogus, along with the propaganda being used to sell them. If they were serious about wanting everyone covered, it takes little more than expanding medicaid and/or medicare. But in reality those programs are constantly broke or going broke. They are woefully underfunded and medicare faces half a trillion in cuts under the new bills. How in the hell is that supposed to help, with millions of baby boomers about to retire. Utter chaos and idiocy.

If it comes down to betting on who is more likely to fix the Health Care crisis in the US and the choices are the Industry itself and the Government only a moron would bet on the Industry.

Maybe true, maybe not, but when has the government fixed anything? And does it require a trillion dollar plus fix?

Considering the government's been "fixing" the system for the better part of a century at the state and federal level, it must be damn near perfect now?

Why did she mention that people where Laughing??? I also didnt hear anyone breathing in the audience does that mean they weren't???? She mentioned it because she saw people laughing. She wouldnt have mentioned it if she didnt. You know it, I know it. Unless you really believe this women was just saying that for effect. If that is the case, why?

#77 | Posted by Fenderwa41
* * * *

She was giving a speech. Everything you do is for effect. "Go ahead and laugh" is a common figure of speech, along with "you might think I'm crazy." Just because someone says it doesn't mean she sees people in white coats trying to put her in a straitjacket.

The headline says that they were heckling a grieving mom, and so of course the resident DR libtards hop up and down, and get all excited. So I watched: no heckling, no laughing, everyone very polite and reserved. The only venom-spewing, angry douches happen to be here, on the DR, posting from the left. As usual.

Wrong again mophead! You should go watch SICKO and EDUMACATE yerself!

I had gall bladder removal and the the price quote BEFORE insurance discount was over 24,000. AFTER discount was around 6,000.

If the hospital is willing to discount the price 75% for an insurance company why can they not give that same discount to someone who walks in with no insurance?

Figure out this one and you will have solved the problem with the 'Health Care Industry.'

This is a GREAT example of WHY we need to get a public option.

#78 | Posted by Monstman

Montstman, that is not a discount--healthcare providers often do what is called "balanced billing"---they and some healthcare providers will bill for more then what is considered a "usual and customary fee" for a particular demographic area for the particular service--if the insurer is stupid enough to pay it's a bonus for then, otherwise they'll accept what is paid. Now as far as the John Hopkins study is concerned, that study is related to charges that are higher then then the insured and medicare--what that study doesn't tell you is what the uninsured actually paid ---it goes back to what I said previously--most of those folks go back to the providers to work out a fee much lower (they can point to usual and customary fees of the insured) and payment arrangements---RIGHT on both accounts. Also, it doesn't surprise me you don't know what the heck you're talking about if you get your warped info fromthis so-called SICKO (I would say they need some treatment themselves).

"that is not a discount--healthcare providers often do what is called "balanced billing""

Welcome to 1984.

Montsman is right, insurance companies negotiate rates with hospitals and other providers.

#83 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Not all insurance companies negotiate fees with hospitals and providers---probably why montsman is so confused---I wouldn't be surprised if he had a traditional "fee for service" plan. The HMOs certainly negotiate fees and then there are PHOs and I won't get into that. Montsman, if you're out there I'd love to know if you had a traditional plan and that then solves the issue--I'll politely inform you that you did not get a discount but probably paid what negotiated HMOs reimbursement was for the procedure you had. Boy, education is tough.

MOPHEAD logic there - even though it SAYS discount on the BILL from the hospital I will defer to this gentlemans EXPERT knowledge here...

right...

"that is not a discount--healthcare providers often do what is called "balanced billing""

Welcome to 1984.

#88 | Posted by Danforth

Having worked in the healthcare system for years, balanced billing used to "grind my socks" I used to have people ask me what to do when they were billed more then what their insurance companies paid----montsman would probably think along with them that they had lousy insurance--I would explain that if it was a physician billing that their physician was charging more then what other physicians were charging in that area and the problem was not their insurer but the physician (and their greed--didn't tell them that) I would tell them to write a letter to their physician saying that they had checked in the area and his fee was out of the ordinary for the area and that the insurer payment was appropriate---and if they were given another billing that they would write a letter to the county medical society concerning their concerns---they never got another bill.

MOPHEAD logic there - even though it SAYS discount on the BILL from the hospital I will defer to this gentlemans EXPERT knowledge here...

right...

#90 | Posted by Monstman

Thanks, Monstman, I would infer from your response that you did have traditional "fee for service" and you indirectly have given me a back-handed affirmation---you are indeed a gentleman.

Guess what I've worked around and in hospitals for years---

#52 | Posted by matsop at 2009-11-24 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:Panhandling from the sick sucks !

Matsop,

I believe he was referring to an IN-network hospital where the contractual discount was taken rather than the UNC balance billing an OON facility would do (reasons for which I outlined about medicare a little earlier as well as "greed"). For example, my wife's recent C-Sec billed out at $14,000 but the global fee for in-net provider was $5000 so the remaining $9000 was a "write off" (these ARE NOT tax writeoffs).

The reason a hospital cannot just give you a discount is that they are required to bill everyone at least what they bill Medicare, they are also not supposed to accept anything below medicare rates on penalty of medicare rates decreases.

This is why you can call a provider and plead "hardship" (technically it should be done in writing) and they will often give you a comparable rate to insurance, but the government does not let them voluntarily offer this rates without sacrificing medicare reimbursement levels (for those of you who have ever actually read an insurance contract, this should sound familiar)...

Matsop,

I believe he was referring to an IN-network hospital where the contractual discount was taken rather than the UNC balance billing an OON facility would do (reasons for which I outlined about medicare a little earlier as well as "greed"). For example, my wife's recent C-Sec billed out at $14,000 but the global fee for in-net provider was $5000 so the remaining $9000 was a "write off" (these ARE NOT tax writeoffs).

The reason a hospital cannot just give you a discount is that they are required to bill everyone at least what they bill Medicare, they are also not supposed to accept anything below medicare rates on penalty of medicare rates decreases.

This is why you can call a provider and plead "hardship" (technically it should be done in writing) and they will often give you a comparable rate to insurance, but the government does not let them voluntarily offer this rates without sacrificing medicare reimbursement levels (for those of you who have ever actually read an insurance contract, this should sound familiar)...

#94 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

Sheeple, thanks for a knowledgable post.

Matsop,

I believe he was referring to an IN-network hospital where the contractual discount was taken rather than the UNC balance billing an OON facility would do (reasons for which I outlined about medicare a little earlier as well as "greed"). For example, my wife's recent C-Sec billed out at $14,000 but the global fee for in-net provider was $5000 so the remaining $9000 was a "write off" (these ARE NOT tax writeoffs).

The reason a hospital cannot just give you a discount is that they are required to bill everyone at least what they bill Medicare, they are also not supposed to accept anything below medicare rates on penalty of medicare rates decreases.

This is why you can call a provider and plead "hardship" (technically it should be done in writing) and they will often give you a comparable rate to insurance, but the government does not let them voluntarily offer this rates without sacrificing medicare reimbursement levels (for those of you who have ever actually read an insurance contract, this should sound familiar)...

#94 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

Sheeple, thanks for a knowledgable post.

#95 | Posted by matsop

It would be interesting whether Monstman was in-network or out-of-network.

Guess what I've worked around and in hospitals for years---

#52 | Posted by matsop at 2009-11-24 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:Panhandling from the sick sucks !

#93 | Posted by northguy3

It is but they're usually close to the expressway viaducts (especially if they're a class I trama center.

'It would be interesting whether Monstman was in-network or out-of-network.'

#96 | Posted by matsop

It would be interesting to find ONE SUBJECT in this world that you would claim you are not EXPERT in!

That must be quite a burden being such a know it all?

The mantra of the weak. I was actually disgusted when I read it.

There's nothing weak about using the government to achieve things collectively that we could not achieve on our own.

Individualism is great, but it wasn't going to build the interstate highway system, take Europe back from the Nazis or provide a social safety net for our elderly.

It would be interesting to find ONE SUBJECT in this world that you would claim you are not EXPERT in!

That must be quite a burden being such a know it all?

#98 | Posted by Monstman

Yeah, that's what my wife says---she still loves nme though.

RCADE, finally someone exactly on point. Governments exist in order to perform those functions that individuals cannot do. I cannot build a highway. I cannot provide fire and ambulance services to myself on a continuous basis, I would find it difficult to teach my children everything they need to know in today's high speed and high tech world. But...

I think I can determine what I want for health care, and I think I can pay for it myself. Government does not need to mandate that every single person must have health insurance. Government does not need to be between me and my doctor. Government does not need to tell me what medications and medical procedures that I can or can't have. Individuals can take care of their own health needs. Therefore the government does not need to be involved.

I think I can determine what I want for health care, and I think I can pay for it myself. Government does not need to mandate that every single person must have health insurance. Government does not need to be between me and my doctor. Government does not need to tell me what medications and medical procedures that I can or can't have. Individuals can take care of their own health needs. Therefore the government does not need to be involved.

#101 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Going further, the Constutition explicitly forbades the feferal government from engaging in such activities. The limitations on federal spending are quite evident and the reason for the crafting of the 10th ammendment is clear - give the local government, and those who it represents, power (rightly or wrongly) to craft legislation that reflects the will of the local populace.

Johnny Hotsauce is the pervert and douche bag of the day.

Thanks for playing.

Who will show the evidence of their douchery by using "tea bagger" tomorrow?

Too many right wingers think anything goes.

Teabaggers are a cult. And not nice people either.

Teabaggers are a cult. And not nice people either.

#104 | Posted by Timex
* * * *

I've found that to be true also. Just look at all the homosexuals on the DR alone--very angry people. And Obama voters all.

Thanks to Sheeple for the link to this family's story.

Very sad story.

In reading the events--you know--it really appears that she had the swine flu.

I was talking with a nurse last week and she described the same symptoms and the pregnant mother died with sepsis, collapsed lungs--just like this woman.

They were able to save the baby and the mother died the next day.

Pregnant women are dying with swine flu--way over the general population.

Very sad.

Murph,

Here's an article regarding the relationship between H1N1 and pregnancy mortality.

Pretty sure lack of insurance doesn't cause H1N1 though. However, getting the vaccine would, if it were available that is...

ooops

I think I can determine what I want for health care, and I think I can pay for it myself.

It's not nearly that simple. Millions of Americans can't get health insurance because it isn't being offered to them. Every day more people fall through the cracks because insurers won't offer them coverage.

"insurers won't offer them coverage."

Anyone ever heard of a business that didn't want customers? The problem isn't that insurance companies don't want customers, it's that the customers can't get to the business. There are 1800 medical insurance companies in this country. Ever wonder why you rarely have a choice beyond one or two? The problem lies not with the insurance company but with government regulation. Companies are not allowed to market or sell to whomever they choose. State regulation and an employer-based system is what keeps health care out of the hands of most. Those that truly cannot afford insurance, under or unemployed, do get health insurance - medicaid. It's the lower middle class, those that make too much for medicaid but don't work for an employer rich enough to offer health care coverage (I was one such) that fall through the cracks.

Don't spend trillions of dollars for more welfare coverage, open the marketing gates and allow individuals to buy their own coverage. Isn't it interesting that the only areas where health insurance costs have decreased are those areas that are typically paid by individuals - dental and eye care? Insurance costs, like everything else, are market driven. But their customers are government agencies and major employers. That limits the number of customers, and regulation limits the number of providers, thus the costs go higher. So what would a reasonable person believe, therefore, that the solution should be.

I think I can determine what I want for health care, and I think I can pay for it myself. Government does not need to mandate that every single person must have health insurance. Government does not need to be between me and my doctor. Government does not need to tell me what medications and medical procedures that I can or can't have. Individuals can take care of their own health needs. Therefore the government does not need to be involved.

#101 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Bullshit..

You have no fucking clue whether or not your genetic material contains a time bomb that will give you cancer or a stroke. You don't have a fucking clue whether or not you will be bankrupt due to the cost or whether the insurance coverage will be adequate. This whole insurance gimmick is a ball and chain to the the American economy in competitiveness and for entrepreneurship. Just ask the right wing rag The Wall Street Journal.

This is EXACTLY why everyone should be covered.

Just more America hating righties.

#3 | POSTED BY NORTHGUY3 AT 2009-11-24 12:01 AM

?? Probably because righties have such perception problems.

Legio, let's just cut to the chase - you have no fucking clue about me or anyone else. Please feel free to continue to feed at the public trough, you're little better than a parasite anyway. You may be unable to care for yourself, going home to cry for mommy at the least little hurt, but there remains the rest of us that are capable for caring for ourselves and our families. America was founded by people like me, those capable of thinking and doing for themselves. If everyone was as you seem to be, humans never would have left the safety of the jungle. So go back to whatever teat you've been sucking, and let the rest of us run the world so the likes of you have something to suck from.

1st Amendment all the way...

Fred Phelps set the "moral" bar for the Republican Party. And, here's where we end up...

However, I meant the part about 1st Amendment protection...

Unfortunately it is not odd the fetus now becomes an unborn "child" when the left wants to use them to push an agenda.
#4 | POSTED BY KBM AT 2009-11-24 12:21 AM

Doesn't that road run both ways? I guess not by your house, eh?

The left wants to "push an agenda"?

Oh, you mean healthcare for those who are actually alive and breathing on their own eh? Funny how you want every fetus born, but don't give a crap what happens to them after that, isn't it.

GOP=Prolife before birth and after brain death

All else=you are on your own...eh?

And yes Murph, the woman did die in part due to lack of health insurance. The reason she was not treated in the first place is because the hospital wanted to get her out of their doors because she didn't have insurance. They didn't take the time needed to properly diagnose her.

#2 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

This is bullshit and you know it! If you don't know it, then this is a MAJOR problem in the US.

If what you are saying is true, then some hospital administrators are going to jail! You can't do that. It's against the law.

This is the bullshit thinking that we have in this country.

EVERYONE THINKS THAT HEALTHCARE IS FREE!!!!!

It's not. You have to pay for it, just like you pay your rent and just like you pay for tansportation and everything else. IT'S NOT FREE!!!

Too many right wingers think anything goes.

Teabaggers are a cult. And not nice people either.

#104 | Posted by Timex

The Huffington Post is also a cult, then. We have many cults in the country and we don't know it.

What I want to know is why do the people who write for the HuffPo and Miss Information hate America?

just like you pay for tansportation and everything else. IT'S NOT FREE!!!
#116 | POSTED BY EDDIE AT 2009-11-25 09:31 AM

How do you pay for the roads and bridges you drive on genius?

Socialism, eh?

LMFAO

just like you pay for tansportation and everything else. IT'S NOT FREE!!!
#116 | POSTED BY EDDIE AT 2009-11-25 09:31 AM

How do you pay for the roads and bridges you drive on genius?

Socialism, eh?

LMFAO

#118 | Posted by woke

What are you talking about?

So you are saying that we should be bringing the dysfunction of the state's transportation department to the Federal Government to run healthcare?

Are you serious?

Have you thought this through, or are you just going to retort with nonsensical bullshit?

Woke,

Perhaps they should check your tax returns before charging you at toll booths?

Arguing idiocy with idiocy is idiotic.

GOP="nation building" by invading/occupying/destroy a country that did not attack us to the tune of 2 TRILLION and counting is ok with them, as billions go to various global, war/oil corporations.

But just make sure no tax money ever goes back to American working poor taxpayers who need help paying for healthcare for themselves and their children.

The richest 1% (141,000 who avg $7.4 million a year) NEED that money, eh?

LOL

Woke,

Are you happy with the way and the places our govt spends money?

seriously.....not fucking with you.

Arguing idiocy with idiocy is idiotic.

#120 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD at 2009-11-25 09:53 AM | Reply

woke enjoys being idiotic.....

He's also mentally ill, just ask him about his 40 year old PTSD issues

EH wokey?
.

Rogers, I agree 100% the system is broken. But the Government is not going to fix it, even if you gave them unlimited funds.

#67 | Posted by MrFair

Government has had to step in countless times to right wrongs the private sector wouldn't right until forced to do so. Antitrust laws, labor laws, food and water safety, financial regulation, and the list goes on and on.

RightIsRight: Thanks for proving my point that right wingers are not nice people. Good job!

Eddie, I don't know a single person "thinks that healthcare is free". I don't know where you got that idea. If it was free then this woman and everyone else would always receive the best care available.

What the hospital that treated her first was the bare minimum required by law. That is why they lied to the 2nd hospital and told them that she did have insurance. They gave her proper diagnosis and admitted her. If they hadn't lied she would have probably been sent on her way with a prescription for same antibiotics.

Do you really think they did everything in their power to diagnose and treat her? Do you believe that people with no insurance get the same treatment as people with great insurance?

#124 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

Johnny,

Stop and think for a minute. The system is broken because people think that healthcare is free or it should be.

Again, the system is broken, also, for the fact that so many people are falling through the cracks. Even more now than in recent years.

The system is broken and we need to fix it.

Making your argument makes little or no sense because you are forcing an opinion based on "the lady's story". You are assuming that some private individual in some private hospital made a the right or the wrong decision. This is going to happen ALL THE TIME, and in my opinion, more often if Mr. Obama gets his way!!! Do you really think that people are going to get the best care from an organization that runs the DMV? Holy Shit! What a NIGHTMARE.

Anyway, the fact is that the system is broken and I attribute most of that to how people are ignorant about healthcare and they thnik its free.

Think about this? What kind of health insurance do most people expect from their emplorers? That's right 100% coverage with a 20-dollar co-pay. Not free, but real fucking close!

What kind of policy do people who know what they're doing usually buy. In my opinion, it's a high deductible health plan associated with a Health Savings Account. It provides enough protection without costing a whole lot. And, if you stay healthy, you keep the savings account in your retirement!!! What a concept?

Do you really think they did everything in their power to diagnose and treat her? Do you believe that people with no insurance get the same treatment as people with great insurance?

#124 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

If you go to Denver General and tell them you don't have insurance and you want to see what's available, you will talk to a social worker. Funny thing, if you are not a resident of the state, they "give" you a health card (medicaid) to use anywhere that accepts Medicaid. If you are a resident, then you fill out a bunch of forms and if you're poor enough, you get a health card.

Free? I'll say it is.

But, most of the problem is that people don't know that they qualify for this.

Would she have gotten the same care as someone with insurance? Yes. But, people are different. You're talking about private individuals who are administrators, doctors, nurses, etc.

Are you really trying to second guess them?

I thought it was a fetus. Unfortunately it is not odd the fetus now becomes an unborn "child" when the left wants to use them to push an agenda.

So what's the right's explanation for not joining in the push? It's not a child after all? Fetuses should be protected but only if you can afford health insurance?

Eddie,

HSA's and HDHP's are about the only thing the government has tried in 60 years that has lowered the cost of health CARE. Unfortunately I am sure these plans will be castrated because of the teeth that some "evil bastard" gave them in 2003.

Instead we'll go to ER with no copays (such as medicaid) which has been shown by JAHCO to double utilization over medicare recipients and quadrouple that of privately insured individuals (esp for minor ailments). It's not the uninsured that drive up ER costs, it's the Medicaid recipients. In actuality, uninsured individuals have the lowest ER utilization rates.