Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, November 23, 2009

Do you believe in the American dream -- the idea that in this country, hardworking people of every race, color and creed can get ahead on their own merits? If so, that belief may soon bar you from getting a license to teach in Minnesota public schools -- at least if you plan to get your teaching degree at the University of Minnesota's Twin Cities campus.

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This is downright chilling.

"We're open-minded and enlightened as long as you embrace our orthodoxy completely and without question."
-Leftism in action

I seriously hope some liberals on this site find this as appalling as I do - on multiple levels.

I have a hard time believing this is even real,especially given the other horseshit Katherine Kersten writes on a regular basis.

I might put more stock in Katherine Kersten's writing if she actually linked some sources, even occasionally.

The author of this article is a crackpot idiot. JeffJ should be ashamed of himself for using an article by this idiot. However it is Jeff and we all know how ignorant he is.

So far, you attacked the writer and the poster, but not the school. Business as usual.

I don't have any prior knowledge of the writer, but I will say this: the quotes she provides from the report could be considerably less sinister in context rather than blown out of proportion like she does.

It seems to me that the report is basically asking for a handful of pretty basic requests:

-That teachers understand their own cultural background and IF this affects how they view students in their class. What is wrong with this? Honestly, I see nothing wrong with being self-aware.

-That teachers have a full understanding of cultural/racial issues in the United States. For example, how can I teach Native American students if I don't understand the very recent hurts and mistrust caused by the US government through government schools wherein students were taken away from their families, made to cut their hair and give up cultural ties, etc. If I see a lack of support from Native families, personally I'd rather know the history of the situation rather than assume that Native families are "just that way."

It's this age old argument between liberals and conservatives, and frankly, although both sides can be at fault in some instances, I think the conservatives have their panties in a bunch too much over this issue of "historical revisionism." They assume that liberals hate America because liberals want to look at the whole history and not just a white-washed version. I don't look at this as white-guilt or any of the other ridiculous terms the right bandies about. Is it not good scholarship to look at an entire history rather than just one perspective on it?

Is it not good scholarship to look at an entire history rather than just one perspective on it?

Yes.

Forget "re-education". I'd be happy if teachers were educated in the first place.

***Do you believe in the American dream***

.....I believe that the American Dream is the American Dream.....now, is that enough ?......

.....but the American Dream is not the American Fact......

....the American Facts are somewhat different.....

.....now.....what is education ?.......

.....do we teach children that our society has reached the pinnacle of it's potential ?....and it arrived there through raptorous patriotism and the highest ethical conduct.......

.....or the truth.?.......

#9 | Posted by skizziks

I agree that no one is truely pure in their intention, including you.

So, just how would you fix the present system?

I would be willing to bet you are on one of the lowest rungs of you companies ladder???? If you are actually employees.

jeeezz

Company's

Employeed

Must be the CISCO

So, just how would you fix the present system?
....10 | Posted by chickenrancher

.....public education is severely underfunded and neglected in the U.S........

.....but, as with healthcare, the answer simply lies in learning from other countries that are doing it better and getting better results......

.....but we have a kind of national myopia that does not allow us to see beyond our borders, except when we want to start a war.......

......while others can rightly point to many factors contributing to our national decline (sort of like watching the Titanic sink over a thirty year period)......the first, most significant contributor is our sub-standard public education system....we are turning out dumb, uneducated, unemployable people who in turn make a dumb, uneducated, unemployable country.......

.....if we put all the effort, financial & logistic into public education that we put into the Iraq and Afghani war, we would have a better country with superior prospects.....as it is.....our major manufacturing products are high school dropouts........

.....the second leg of our decline, is the lack of first world national health care, only those bumpkins who've never traveled beyond our borders understand that only in America do over a million families a year go bankrupt due to healthcare, and only here do 40thousand plus die of lack of healthcare, only here do so many live in such misery for the enrichment of the insurance industry.....

.....there's a lot more, but I'd start with those two........

......but I'm not holding my breath........

I would be willing to bet you are on one of the lowest rungs of you companies ladder???? If you are actually employees.
.....#10 | Posted by chickenrancher

"If you are actually employees."....you really are a chickenrancher.....but whatever you are, high school graduate is not one of them.......

....as for job.....I own my own company.....marketing, publishing, real estate....

Skizz-

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm not convinced the dollar amounts spent on education need to be increased. If you compare how much we spend per student with other countries that are out-performing us (depending on what standard you use, of course, and how many students you test and at what levels), I'm pretty sure we're ahead in dollars spent per student. To be fair, I think that none of the suggestions put forth by conservatives/republicans are good, either, but there's enough depth to the problem that simply throwing money at it is not going to be the solution.

I almost shudder typing that because I do believe that many essential programs in education are underfunded, and it pains me that so many programs get cut due to lack of funding.

So the question basically is this: if our dollars spent per student is so high, but so many essential programs (like arts, music, theatre, phy ed, sports, even social studies) are cut due to underfunding, where is all the money going? If you look to teachers or teachers unions as the problem, quite frankly I think you're high (and Skizz, I know you don't do that). Certainly there are problems in some unions and with some teachers, particularly in much larger districts, but as a whole my experience has shown that teachers and teachers unions do work.

I do think teachers should get paid more. I think this attracts more talent and people who would otherwise have more financially lucrative careers. I do think tying teachers' pay to test scores is misguided and even potentially dangerous. How does a music teacher, for example, increase his or her pay when their subject isn't included on any standardized exam? This doesn't even begin to touch on the inherent problems of standardized testing in the first place. Also, it's possible that the most experienced teachers would use their seniority to procure classes with the best students in order to continue getting raises. That leaves the younger, less experienced teachers to teach the students who struggle, and frankly, in most cases they'll continue to struggle because often (not always) experience does breed competence.

Again, where is the money going? Frankly, I think there's too much administration and too much money spent on pooly conceived initiatives (No Child Left Behind, anybody?). Spend money to hire, retain, and train good, well-trained, dedicated teachers, and let them teach and make sure they have what they need to do their job to the best of their ability.

There's more to the problem than that, of course. I think part of it is cultural and cannot be fixed through the educational system. You look at countries who outperform us (again, based on standardized testing), and it does seem as though education is more highly valued in those cultures than in ours. Why that is, I'm not sure. Perhaps because America was at the top of the world, so to speak, until recently, and we've grown complacent? Other countries still have a hunger to improve? Who knows.

Also, I do believe that the US educates a wider array of its populace than other countries do. Many other Western countries get non-college-bound students into vocational training earlier. There are pros and cons to this, but ultimately it means that our schools are often preparing students for paths they won't ever go down, and this is on both sides of the coin. On the upside, it also probably means that we put out more well-rounded students, even if they underperform in key areas.

****if our dollars spent per student is so high, but so many essential programs (like arts, music, theatre, phy ed, sports, even social studies) are cut due to underfunding, where is all the money going? ***

...the reason all those programs are cut, is, because the funding is insufficient.....

.....not only do we need the money for those programs to be put back in the system, we also need more resources so that our kids can pull even with the best in the world.......

......there is a cultural problem in this country, instead of looking at taxes as an investment in our future, we have come to believe the conservative mythology, that taxes are a dirty word, like shit,fuck,or motherfucker........

......we are therefore shortchanging all manner of infrastructure investment, we are therefore declining as a nation.......

****Also, I do believe that the US educates a wider array of its populace than other countries do.****

.....another misconception......

....did you know what the biggest predictor of a life of crime is ?...it's lack of a high school certificate......yet we have one of the highest dropout rates (if not highest) in the western world.....

.....I hate to keep putting responsibility on the anti-tax people - but in America - we begrudge paying 5 thousand dollars per pupil per school year, be are happy to pay 50 thousand dollars a year to keep them in jail......

These are the graduation rates as compiled in 2008. As far as I know they have gotten worse since for the U.S.

Denmark 90
Finland 90
France 81
Germany 99
Iceland 84
Ireland 92
Italy 81
Japan 91
Korea 96
Luxembourg 69
New Zealand 75
Norway 100
Spain 66
Sweden 78
Switzerland 89
United States 75

does seem as though education is more highly valued in those cultures than in ours. Why that is, I'm not sure. 14 | Posted by dylanfan

....like I said.....it's our cultural mythology...

....we believe taxes are bad, that's why other countries have better healthcare, better primary education, better labor laws, healthier people who live longer lives.....

.....it's easier to see how cultural mythology can affect other cultures than it is to look at your own......we can see how Afghanistan's culture of ignorance keeps them backward.....but we have greater difficulty pulling back and seeing our baggage from a distance......

.....that's why I always recommend that people should travel and see how other cultures live, then they would not believe the bullshit they hear about miserable Europeans lining up for rationed food and healthcare, when many of them have higher standards of living than we do........

I'm right with you on Europe. Here's the two differences as I see it with Europe, though:

-Their tax rates are higher, but I'm pretty sure that I've seen statistics that indicate that they spend less per pupil, yet by most measures have a higher quality education. That's why I don't think the answer is "only" spend more. Although frankly, it couldn't hurt to have more money invested in education. The point is just that money alone won't solve the problem.

-My understanding of European educational systems is that they start pulling out students for vocational education much earlier. Therefore, by the time a student is 16, he or she is already either in college-prep or a vocational track, and each student is receiving a very different education, I think even with different diplomas, different schools, etc. The US, on the other hand, seems to give more or less the same education to every student. Hell, we even pride ourselves on it. NCLB was all about being the same. Graduation tests will do the same thing -- every student will learn the same material regardless of whether they want to or not. I think by the time a kid is sixteen, they should start being able to make decisions about what they want to do -- continue with a college-track education, continue with a vocational-track education, or stop going to school and enter the work force. Again, from my understanding, this matches more closely what works in countries that are generally perceived as having stronger educational systems than us.

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