Many of these companies converted to 401(k)s, which serve people better; you can change jobs and take your pension with you, instead of feeling chained to the same company forever. And your pension is not dependent upon a single company's fortunes.

Just wanted to state that fact before the usual pile-on about corporate greed.

have fun kids!

Ah Verm with the corporate apologies. If you bothered to read the article you would see that these companies did not convert to 401(k)'s but rather dumped their pensions onto the PBGC and let the taxpayers pick up the bills.

You cannot terminate an underfunded pension plan you fool.

Maybe you can link some more non-existent facts.

Nothing will come of this. The execs in question give fortunes to Democrats.

Just another way for Democratic congressmen to generate cheap headlines for themselves, and pretend to be doing something proactive. They aren't, and never will. Nothing's more amusing than watching the Chris Dodd's of the world stand up and pretend to be upset about something going on at mortgage companies or on Wall Street, and watching the libbies who don't know any better pretend that theirs is the party of the working man.

If you go to the Capital Grill in DC you will see all these Democrats having lunch with the very same CEO's they lambast in the press.

Can We Say "DOG AND PONY SHOW" Yes we can

In the case linked to United -- by far the largest of those
analyzed by the GAO -- the airline missed nearly $1 billion in
required pension contributions. At the same time, it awarded its top three executives more
than $50 million in salary, bonuses, stock and supplemental
retirement benefits, the report said.

Okay, this is wrong but in case you can't add......having the $50 million back doesn't solve the $1 billion shortfall.

And the congressman Miller who is bitching about it can either propose legislation to freeze executive compensation on these companies who do this or STFU.

While the peons fret over corporate unfairness, Washington is stealing trillions from Americans. Pathetically, there is hardly a word about it, just minds that go blank whenever the subject comes up.

Didn't Pillowtex and Polaroid just recently go into bankruptcy again?

Not sure the $350 million would've made a big dent in the $11,000 million owed to pensions but would've bought a little more good will.

"If you bothered to read the article you would see that these companies did not convert to 401(k)'s but rather dumped their pensions onto the PBGC and let the taxpayers pick up the bills."

"Help me out, the way I read it the PBGC is that it is not taxpayer funded"

Oh, they will be.

The PBGC is bankrupt.

The real problem began when the courts decided pension plans belonged to the company instead of to the workers.

That led to raiding of (what back then were thought to be) 'overfunded' pensions (remember corporate raiding?) and the ability of companies to underfund, with the promise of making it up.

Before the meltdown, 60% of pensions were in 'the Green Zone'. After, only 20% of pensions nationwide were in 'the Green Zone'.

The recession is not an accident as Geithner repeatedly asserts. Its a planned demolition designed to move cash and assets from the middle class, poor and elderly to the already rich. Its working as planned.

I have a small pension in the PBGC--not much and probably will be less when it comes time to collect.

My employer years ago went BK--put the pension--which was protected by the company and the courts into PBGC.

In the case of United Airlines the only pension fund which had money in it was the pilots pension. The company was contractually obligated to have it fully funded. When the 2000 contract was signed the multiplier was increased slighly and with that the fund was slightly under funded. All other pensions at United were not funded or massively underfunded. When they went to dump them on the PBGC the government also wanted the pilots pensions because it had a few billion dollars in it. The governement wantedthe cash out of the pilots plan and UAL wanted out from under future payouts. It is like having your house foreclosed on when you are 5 years away from having it paid off.

That led to raiding of (what back then were thought to be) 'overfunded' pensions (remember corporate raiding?) and the ability of companies to underfund, with the promise of making it up.

Which is exactly what the entity who will now issue new regulations to protect us against these evil corporations (government) does themselves.

"Its a planned demolition designed to move cash and assets from the middle class, poor and elderly to the already rich. Its working as planned."

How could that possibly be the case when the biggest losers in this recession are those folks holding non-M1 assets? Unless you were a billionaire that had his money tucked in a sock, you've probably lost your ass in this recession.

The recession is not an accident as Geithner repeatedly asserts.

are any of them? or just that "this" one was planned by the republicans.

what a loon.

You wanted your capitalism. Here is your capitalism.

Now if a Dem tries to fix it, you call them a communist, socialist, etc.

Many of these companies converted to 401(k)s, which serve people better

Do you have any sort of evidence to support this statement?

you can change jobs and take your pension with you, instead of feeling chained to the same company forever. And your pension is not dependent upon a single company's fortunes.

Well Vernon, if that's such a good thing, then let's apply it to health insurance. Health insurance would serve people better if they could change jobs and take their health insurance with them, not feel chained to the same company forever, and not be dependent upon a single company's fortunes.

Or do you only trot out "logic" like this when it suits your corporatist agenda?

The real problem began when the courts decided pension plans belonged to the company instead of to the workers.
That led to raiding of (what back then were thought to be) 'overfunded' pensions (remember corporate raiding?) and the ability of companies to underfund, with the promise of making it up.
Before the meltdown, 60% of pensions were in 'the Green Zone'. After, only 20% of pensions nationwide were in 'the Green Zone'.
#10 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-11-20 12:21 PM

Corporate payoffs influence the judicial "impartiality". I thought that when Federal pensions were raided prior to the failouts a shitstorm would ensue.

I'll bet some of that failout is funding the new monetary invention they are attempting to get international recognition/allowance for. This morning's C-Span Rethuglican appeal was all about precious metals investing.

"Self destruct in 5, 4, 3..."

If you think it sucks to have the government takeover your pension, just wait until they take over your health benefits.

Dumb fucks

If you bothered to read the article you would see that these companies did not convert to 401(k)'s but rather dumped their pensions onto the PBGC and let the taxpayers pick up the bills.

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2009-11-20 08:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you had bothered reading the ENTIRE article, instead of just selected graphs, you would have seen this one:

"Many U.S. companies have dropped traditional, defined-benefit plans in favor of less-costly 401(k) programs that put more risks onto workers."

Yes, the article highlights some companies that dumped on PBGC -- you selective outrage requires selective reading.

"In the Private Sector We Trust"
The Right

I guess this subject becomes less theoretical when you join the ranks of those between, say, 55 to 70, who lose the pension they were promised at age 22.

Many people actually appear happy that this kind of thing happens. They use it as an opportunity to warn us all that this is the kind of thing that will happen with a health care reform package is proposed that seeks to free people from dependency on unreliable corporate entities for their physical well being.

In that magical thinking way that they have they are able to overlook that the only connection that government has with it is its failure to ensure that corporations behave as though they actually cared about America rather than giving them a free hand to explore how Americans can be exploited for gain more efficiently.