Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, November 19, 2009

Some religious zealots have taken their dislike of President Barack Obama to a new level -- bumper stickers and t-shirts which urge people to pray for the president's death. The "Pray for Obama - Psalm 109:8" slogan refers to the passage "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." Psalm 109:9 makes the meaning clear: "May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."

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Very scary. The hate is definitely starting to reach a new level. I'd never pray for a leader to leave his children fatherless. Some people just don't get what it means to be a Christian... They just continue to spout their ignorance and pull verses out of historical context.

Can't be so. Christians are *never* terrorists.

"Let his days be few; and let another take his office."

How does this urge people to pray for Obama's death? Ever hear of impeachment? How about just simply not being reelected in 2012?

The only people I've ever heard wishing our President or VP to die have been liberals.

Some religious zealots

Sums it up. SOME and ZEALOTS. Not CHRISTIANS. But please go ahead and use your broad brush strokes to paint all Christians as fundies who wish for Obama's death.

#2 | Posted by 726 at 2009-11-19 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Christians" are NEVER terrorists. You got that right 726.

Many people see Obama as a threat to America...

...he's very plainly a Socialist and looking more and more like a total Marxist.

Most Americans aren't. And they are willing to defend their country against their perceived enemies; domestic or otherwise.

Just like during the Revolutionary War.

Just like during the Revolutionary War.

#5 | Posted by BENDOR at 2009-11-19 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Or the Civil War. This is two countries---conservatives and liberals should have their own country. We are not united.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. I know some you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.

I need some advice regarding some of the other specific laws stated in the Bible and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

In addition:

In the argument for Adam and Eve (not Adam and Steve) - Hello, it's a fable taken from Greek Mythology thousands of years preceding the writing of the bible. (as is The Ark/great flood). (google it if in doubt).

PS - Eve would have to had sex with her son to propagate the species. However, that was removed from the bible because it - um - doesn't go well with the rest of the story. Research and you'll see it was removed/altered.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

Nice!!!!!!

1 Timothy chapter 2:

"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent."

I forget, is this supposed to be taken literally? I guess just the parts that help bolster your perspective.

Did you know that over 30 books were removed from the bible? I wonder what values would be held if "the chosen few men" decided to allow the teachings of a woman to be included.

Millions of people's value systems could be completely different. It all hinges on ... "Naaa, I think that's enough. Let's use those books to start a fire or something."

So much for the theory that teabaggers are different from Bush haters who used signs calling for Bush's assassination.

This is two countries---

It is one country with millions of different ideals.

FTFY, bOoB

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?

I thought evryone like the smell of barbecue.

Who would've thought that electing a black man president of the United States would drive old southern white men crazy?

Didn't see that one coming. Nope, not by a long shot.

The portion of the psalm indicated in the article is oft translated in "" as the fellow that prays (David) is asking that god forgive those that wish him harm.

Taken out of context, it can be misinterpretted easily by both sides of this arguement... are these moronic zealots praying the president harm? or are these moronic zealots praying for the forgiveness of those that may be wishing the presidnet harm?

But, then again, this is Drudge, what fun would context be anyhow?

Who would've thought that electing a black man president of the United States would drive old southern white men crazy?

Not just southerners and men and old people and white people. There are people all over the country of both genders and all ages and races who don't like him.

I'm surprised you thought dislike of Obama was exclusively an old southern white man thing. You need to get out more and stop focusing on one specific demographic group.

This rates right up there with an ARYAN NATION t-shirt!

If I see one they better be big and strong enough to resist ripping because that is what will happen!

LOL! What a bunch of pants pissers. They didn't say, "Psalm 109:8-9," they said specifically, "Psalm 109:8," which even according to article says nothing about death.

There are a bunch of anti-Obama crazies out there but also a lot of pants pissers it seems.

Listen, cry baby victim types, the message says, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." That's it.

Black dude with an assault rifle all over again.

Remeber they prayed for Obama to lose the nomination.
He was Nominated!

Remember they prayed for rain at his nomination acceptance speech.
It was a beautiful day!

Remember they prayed for him to lose the election.
He won.

Have you considered the possibility that God is on Obama's side.

The "Pray for Obama - Psalm 109:8"

Praying for Obama's death?

Republican Jesus would be so proud!

Be Well.

If I see one they better be big and strong enough to resist ripping because that is what will happen!

oooooh!

The proprieters of this information are retarded of all intellegence.

Those who speak of this must also remember that God places who he desires in leadership, and he will be the one to take them out of leadership.

Deal with it, get on with your life, and try to live a little bit more like the Biblical Christ (whom these individuals probably do not even understand).

Prayerism

Psalm 109:8" slogan refers to the passage "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." Psalm 109:9 makes the meaning clear: "May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."

Not a lot of nuance there, really.

But people have a right to put whatever BS they like on a bumper sticker. And it's true that most of them likely never read vs 8 or 9, or much of Psalms anyway.

It's just more bankrupt political sloganeering, just as probably thought up by some GNOP astroturfing group as it was by anyone else. And context really isn't a major bumper sticker/ rwingnut consideration at any rate.

Ah, Lee is fishing for a fight with Christians.... OK, I'll bite.

Most of your out of context remarks refer to the Old Testament which (amongst other things) describes the Old Law. However, Christians are no longer bound to the Old Law as explained in Galatians 3. Specifically 3:25 says, "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law." So you'll have to find someone of the Jewish faith to get the details on what they do with it today.

As far as 1st Timothy goes, it is referring to religious instruction only. God does intend for men to be the spiritual leaders of the family--if you don't like it, sorry.

When people decided to assemble all of the ancient holy writings into a single book (i.e. the Bible), they had to look over all the manuscripts they could find and then decide which were inspired by God and which were not. I assume those 30 books you refer to didn't make the cut. Could you provide an unbiased link to provide more details?

A friend of mine who is a Presbyterian preacher notes that this shirt is confused theology and that it is "actually a prophecy about Judas...see Acts 1"

Rightwing domestic terrorists. This is just the Xian version of "death to infidels."

Religion is fundamentally antithesis to democracy. Religion supports rigid heirarchical control with power in the hands of the few while the other supports control in the hands of the many. Religion supports a closed system of rules, interpretted by the few, while democracy supports an evolutionary view of rules, with the wants of the majority deciding the rules. When religion gets involved in governing, the shit hits the fan. See the ME and Henry 8's era as well as the RCs in Central America and the Dobsonites. Religion seeks to joon the power elite, especally if it is a dictatorship with a fixed heirarchical and non-democratic style. The Orthodox atholic church in Russia is worming its way into Putin's thugocracy.

And context really isn't a major bumper sticker/ rwingnut consideration at any rate.

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2009-11-19 11:11 AM

That's exactly right, just another reason why this was not a prayer for death, because the verse they used would have to be viewed in a greater context than, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office," to be twisted into some sort of death threat.

This is just the type of thing I was referring to in the thread I posted a few days ago about rightwing hate. It is out of control. It is unprecedented. And rather than acknowledge it, rightwingers deny it, and claim that leftwingers do the same thing (which simply is not true in terms of degree or extent).
Rightwing hatred is currently probably a greater danger to America than Al Qaeda or any other single external threat.

And rather than acknowledge it, rightwingers deny it, and claim that leftwingers do the same thing (which simply is not true in terms of degree or extent).

m'8 -- extremists on both ends of the political spectrum are equally hateful. It's astonishing that you don't recognize that.

#26 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-11-19 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Again, according to my preacher friend, it is hard for anyone who has an understanding of the Bible to view this shirt and not look at it as praying for God to cause harm upon the President.

See the ME and Henry 8's era...

???

You are saying the democracy and religion are mutually exclusive? The founding fathers and I laugh in your face.

#26

Calling the next sentence "greater context" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

The Psalms have a wealth of prophecy - types and shadows of past events and future - a very worthy study indeed.

This party cooler verse may be used in many instances across time from when it was first penned.

But yes, it is most closely related to Judas or any other type or shadow of Judas - a person who sold Jesus out for their own benefit.

You need to get out more and stop focusing on one specific demographic group.

I was only posting about one demographic group. It gets my point across. If I wanted to post a soliloquy about the many nuanced views of the populace it would've taken too much time and space.

Are you that much of a literalist?

Glad to see the first amendment is alive and well, to bad the media couches the actions of a few into a generalization of all Christians. The vast majority don't wish for him to die, they just would like for him to exercise the duties that are required, for the position that he currently holds, with a bit more diligence and reverence.

Sorry, missed the Lee's Adam and Eve quip. In Genesis 5:4 is says, "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters." So out of necessity brothers and sisters married each other. Some people theorize that Adam and Eve's genetic code was perfect and the imperfections we see in people today were the result of environmental damage over the centuries being passed on from generation to generation. So in the very beginning siblings could procreate without fear of birth defects. It also may explain the longevity of the first people in the old testament.

"Are you that much of a literalist?

#33 | Posted by Lee_Atwater"

Well, the dude says he's proud to be "literal-minded". Might as well take him at his word.

"Some people theorize that Adam and Eve's genetic code was perfect and the imperfections we see in people today were the result of environmental damage over the centuries being passed on from generation to generation."

You mean DNA has evolved?!?

Goatman is a tool and troll. He posits stupidity with just enough crumbs of logic as to make it appear as if he is being serious. (The fact that I even waste my time pointing this out is annoying.)

Duh!! This was a fairly popular bumper sticker during Clinton's two terms, so it isn't a new thing for Obama alone.

Posts #12, #15 and #20 deal with the theological aspect of this, and especially the wide misinterpretation that many posters here have.

Epic Fail of Haters of Interpretation of Psalm 109

Psalm 109:8-9 is about David praising God for protecting his people.

wwww.dailykos.com

Goatman is a tool and troll.

So no rebuttal my point -- just name calling? Does that work in court, counselor? "You honor, the prosecution is a tool"

LOL

Fuck, I'm glad you'll never be in my legal corner.

Again, according to my preacher friend, it is hard for anyone who has an understanding of the Bible to view this shirt and not look at it as praying for God to cause harm upon the President.

#29 | Posted by taxman at 2009-11-19 11:29 AM

Well, according to MY preacher friend, this is a lot to do about nothing. The obvious play on words is there, in verse 8, about wishing Obama to be out of office. Turning that into a death threat is just playing the victim card, which is pretty much all politics is about these days.

#35 | Posted by HerkDriver at 2009-11-19 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag: thinks men and women have different number of ribs

You mean DNA has evolved?!?

#37 | Posted by Danforth

Most people equate evolving with an improvement. This is a case of worsening.

"Most people equate evolving with an improvement. This is a case of worsening."

So is that a yes or a no?

#43 | Posted by Zatoichi

The Bible doesn't say how many ribs Adam started with. So he lost one, and Eve was created to match him.

Eve probably didn't shave her legs, or trim her bush. So was the first woman French?

"So he lost one, and Eve was created to match him."

Then why would his sons have the same number as Adam?

#46 | Posted by HerkDriver at 2009-11-19 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag: failed 5th grade biology

What a moron.

And not a belly button between them.....

Then why would his sons have the same number as Adam?

Evolution.

So is that a yes or a no?

#45 | Posted by Danforth

It has changed. Hey, even creationists acknowledge that a species can change characteristics (like color, or beak size). But it is a big jump to go from there to species changing into new species. I'm not certain either way about evolution--I like listening to the arguments of both sides. For me the question is did God create species as they are now to start with or did he use evolution as a tool to accomplish His goals?

Adam and Eve are myths for idiots, idiot.

#49 | Posted by Zatoichi

Your comment assumes God cannot change the rules of physics, etc. when he needs to. The limitation of science is that is assumes the rules of the universe can never change.

"So he lost one, and Eve was created to match him."

Then why would his sons have the same number as Adam?

Posted by Danforth at 2009-11-19 11:50 AM | Reply

Because His sons had Eve's DNA therefore the Sons had 15 instead of 14.

Larry

Well, back to work. Debate with y'all later.

So much for the theory that teabaggers are different from Bush haters who used signs calling for Bush's assassination.

#8 | Posted by taxman at 2009-11-19 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Link? No one ever called for Bush to be assassinated. You lie.

Link? No one ever called for Bush to be assassinated. You lie.

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-19 11:57 AM | Reply

Sadly that's true

Link? No one ever called for Bush to be assassinated. You lie.

#57 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-19 11:57 AM

lol

Gotta love bOoB!

#59 - OH MY! No one on the left would do such a thing!:

farm4.static.flickr.com

Surely this is just a misguided youth?:

www.zombietime.com

Must be Biden supporters!

I'm relatively sure this guy didn't mean it...:

polizeros.com

Just your average TEA Partier?:

www.thepeoplescube.com

Guess it just depends upon who is saying what about whom?

Psalm 109:8:

www.historycommons.org

Larry?

Bluffalo?

ginacobb.typepad.com

"Christians" are NEVER terrorists. You got that right 726.

#4 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2009-11-19 10:37 AM

I agree.

Oh wait, I'm dead.

Dr. Tiller

One of the tea bagger Obama haters at work is whining about how a student was sent home for wearing this t shirt to school.

It was considered an inappropriate message for schooltime!

Pray for the Obama haters!

Buehler? Buehler?

www.zombietime.com

...not to worry - there are only a few million of these to go...

...not to worry - there are only a few million of these to go...

#70 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:14 PM |

Your brain cells n.a.n.c.?

Maybe 30 years ago.

Wanted dead or alive?:

newsbusters.org

During Bush's presidency, you know Monstman could be seen here whining and puling about all those calls for Bush's assasination, like he is now for Obama. No way is he a partisan hack playing the victim card like a pussy.

Got the point, N.A.N.C.

Jerry - look at the photos and tell me that no one called for the untimely demise of the former potus. Chickenshit. No, I take that back - at least chickenshit makes good fertilizer - you on the other hand would probably plague the garden with e.coli.

This is just the type of thing I was referring to in the thread I posted a few days ago about rightwing hate. It is out of control. It is unprecedented. And rather than acknowledge it, rightwingers deny it, and claim that leftwingers do the same thing (which simply is not true in terms of degree or extent).
Rightwing hatred is currently probably a greater danger to America than Al Qaeda or any other single external threat.

#27 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-19 11:25 AM | Reply |
Would prefer to live next to a member of Al Qaeda than a Christian.

Might I suggest a nice mud hut in Afganistan or Pakistan for your next move. Be sure to tell your new neighbors how afraid you are of Christians It will warm their hearts as they warm their hands with your blood.

p.s. - I've scolded at least two people in the last couple of months for making awful statements against this potus - face to face - one a 70 y/o democrat for calling him a ni**er!

No, I take that back - at least chickenshit makes good fertilizer - you on the other hand would probably plague the garden with e.coli.

#75 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:20 PM |

e.coli?

Your gynocologist complains about that very same problem with you.

The poor bastard.

No one ever called for Bush to be assassinated. You lie.

#57 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

LOL. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?


February 7, 2001: While President George W. Bush was occupied in the White House Residence, Washington, DC, Robert Pickett, standing outside the perimeter fence, discharged a number of shots from a weapon in the direction of the White House. The U.S. Park Police claimed, according to CNN correspondent Eileen O'Connor, that the type of handgun that was confiscated was of a sophisticated type and had the shooter not been shooting from an obstructed angle view, the bullets would have reached the White House. However, numerous trees and bushes separated the sidewalk, where Pickett was, from the White House. Following a stand-off of about ten minutes, the incident ended when a Secret Service officer shot Pickett, resulting in an injury which required immediate hospital surgery. Pickett was found to have emotional problems and employment grievances. Although Pickett had written letters to the President about these grievances there was lack of conclusive evidence that President Bush was a personal target. A court in July 2001 sentenced Pickett to three years imprisonment in connection with the incident.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, Bush was at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida.[21] He woke up around 6:00 AM and prepared for his morning jog.[22][23] A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent arrived at the Colony Beach Resort and claimed they had a "poolside" interview with the President. They did not have an appointment and were turned away.[24] It is possible this was an assassination attempt modeled on the one used on anti-Taliban fighter and Northern Alliance military leader Ahmed Massoud two days earlier. The previous April, Massoud addressed the European Parliament and warned of the possibility of al-Qaeda attacking in the West.[25][26] Longboat Key Fire Marshal Carroll Mooneyhan was reported to have overheard the conversation between the men and the Secret Service, but he later denied the report. The newspaper that reported this, the Longboat Observer, stands by its story.[27] Both Mooneyhan and the Observer reporter were questioned by the Secret Service, but the agency has not commented further.[27] Witnesses have recalled seeing 9/11 hijacker ringleader Mohamed Atta in the Longboat Key Holiday Inn a short distance from where Bush was staying as recently as September 7, the day Bush's Sarasota appearance was publicly announced.[27][28]

May 10, 2005: While President George W. Bush was giving a speech in the Freedom Square in Tbilisi, Georgia, Vladimir Arutyunian threw a live Soviet-made RGD-5 hand grenade towards the podium where he was standing and where Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and their two wives and officials were seated. The grenade was live and had its pin pulled, but did not explode because a red tartan handkerchief wrapped tightly around the grenade kept the firing pin from deploying quickly enough.[29] Arutyunian was arrested in July 2005, and killed an Interior Ministry agent while resisting arrest. He was convicted in January 2006, and was given a life sentence.[30][31]

This is just the type of thing I was referring to in the thread I posted a few days ago about rightwing hate. It is out of control. It is unprecedented.

I don't hate you fairy tale believing tools.

I have something to laugh at on a daily basis!

#80 - you fear the truth and are lost in your own hypocrisy.

Excepts its not a prayer for Obama to die.

If they used the next verse, then yes. But they did not.

If they used the 2 verses in combination, then yes. But they did not.

So the author is full of shit.

#79 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-19 12:26 PM
Those sound way more serious than anything Obama's had to face so far.

#80 - you fear the truth and are lost in your own hypocrisy.

#81 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:29 PM

This coming from a tool that quotes the book of fairy tales.

#80 - Can you refute anything in the photos I've posted? Do you see any difference between praying a leaders days in office are short and actually coming out and demanding someone kill them?

#84 - where in this post have I "quoted" the book of fairy tales?

Sure n.a.n.c.

Clean em up and you can call em Teabaggers.

Dipshit.

No one ever called for Bush to be assassinated.

Idiot flag.

www.zombietime.com

Until you have an argument against the photos I've posted, jerry - please feel free to continue with the ad hominem attacks - it is a leftist trademark after all...I mean when they haven't a leg to stand on.

#88 - do NOT try to confound them with facts!

Wow, Nanc is completely owning JerryTarkanian.

*points at Jerry*

LOL!!!

Liberals skipped the bumper stickers and went right to making movies about it. No coding was required.

Excepts its not a prayer for Obama to die.

If they used the next verse, then yes. But they did not.

If they used the 2 verses in combination, then yes. But they did not.

Are you fer real?

FTA: "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."

While that verse does not specifically mention death or harm to the leader in question, read on and you will see that Psalm 109 has a far more sinister message.

6 Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him;
let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.

7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.

11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.

13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.

14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

That's not a prayer, that's a curse.

Like "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest yer armpits"

Only worse.

Face it, The Christian right have tried to put a voodoo-esque curse on Obama.

Maybe some of them just want to see him impeached or voted out of office but others would be happy if he assasinated.

RW media have so demonised Obama in the simple minds of these easily manipulated sheeple that this is the level of hate that they're spewing these days.

If you don't think some of these wingnuts would commit or countenance violence against Obama and then try to justify it with misguided religious references then you aint been paying attention again.

Cling to your innocent explanation/rationale if you wanna but Spud has stared into the eyes of some of thrse muthafuckers and seen real madness there.

Fool yerself if you like.

Can't fool Spud.

Laws no.

Be Well.

/Exiting the Tort as a tater o' doom do
stage left.

Face it, The Christian right have tried to put a voodoo-esque curse on Obama.

#93 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-11-19 12:55 PM

lol, it just gets better and better!

If one is not a biblical scholar (I am not), reads the Psalm as printed in the article (I did), and is not a Christian (I am not), one can only conclude that this T Shirt/Bumper sticker indicates a desire to have President Obama die.
I would wager that the people who designed the shirt actively want the death of the President.

This is unacceptable at any level.

I look forward to the day that President Obama leaves office. I hope that this happens in the 2012 elections but hoping that he dies is reprehensible.

I don't think that President Obama and his policies are good for this country.

He is the President, elected under the laws of this country, and as such deserves my respect and loyalty until we can legally remove him from office.

There are some real scumbags in this country. Anyone who would wear that slogan or put it on a car ought to be ashamed.

Yeah, rcade - because this one is so much more palatable:

www.zombietime.com

Yeah, I'm sure RCade whined real hard about that one.

Personally, the only bumper stickers on any of our vehicles is the ranch truck - the kind your child brings home for being top reader of the quarter in school or honor roll and the like - that truck never leaves the mountain. People with bumper stickers traveling the roadways suck ALL the way around, imhb - hell, my husband won't even let me put a set of longhorn steer horns on my Charger!!!

To sum up the article and thread.

People who like to push the buttons of those who like getting their buttons pushed so they can push some back.

In fact, this sums up probably 95% of every thread on the Retort.

There are some real scumbags in this country. Anyone who would wear that slogan or put it on a car ought to be ashamed.

...and possibly kicked in the nuts. Or tits.

When bumper stickers were more of a white trash thing informing the reader that the driver had been to some low-end tourist spot, they were cool. "Hey, I've been to North of the Border too!" Now most bumper stickers are preachy. It's bad enough being stuck behind some moron who insists on driving in the passing lane while driving the same speed as the care next to him on his right. But I have to be preached at by someone who is too stupid drive in the correct lane? Five minutes behind some moron with a "Coexist" sticker doing 60 in a 65 in the left lane and I'm ready to run over someone else just to be contrary.

#102 lol!

Umm, not quite.

Wow, Nanc is completely owning JerryTarkanian.

*points at Jerry*

LOL!!!

#91 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-11-19 12:42 PM

Did you have a point?

#60 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

#64 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag: Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

#66 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag: No person ever wore this shirt

This shirt was removed from the site on the first day. www.wnd.com

#67 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag: Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

#70 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

#72 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

None of your posts linked to a major network reporting. All your posts are suspect. It against federal law to threaten the life of the POTUS. All such threats are taken seriously. All such threats are investigated. To carry such signs would have instigated instant arrest and made the news. That no arrests were made, and none of your links made the news, means your links are lies. No liberal ever threatened Bush's life--to do so would mean they aren't liberal. They may be anarchists, but certainly not liberal.

Here is the reality--here is how serious the Secret Service takes death threats against the POTUS. It makes major news outlets.

www.thesmokinggun.com

www.pennlive.com

Until you have an argument against the photos I've posted, jerry - please feel free to continue with the ad hominem attacks - it is a leftist trademark after all...I mean when they haven't a leg to stand on.

#89 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:36 PM

Jerry - look at the photos and tell me that no one called for the untimely demise of the former potus. Chickenshit. No, I take that back - at least chickenshit makes good fertilizer - you on the other hand would probably plague the garden with e.coli.

#75 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 12:20 PM

No insult there, n.a.n.c.!

Did you have a point?

#106 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-11-19 02:04 PM

besides the observation of you being a teabagging puppet, no.

Part of the problem is that it is easy to desire someone dead in the abstract. In reality though, of course we wouldn't them to actually to die. In the abstract, I wish all the asshole rightwingers would drop dead. In reality, that would be horrible.

In reality, that would be horrible.

#110 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-19 02:07 PM

Indeed it would!

We'd have nothing to laugh at. Right n.a.n.c.?

besides the observation of you being a teabagging puppet, no.

#109 | Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-11-19 02:06 PM

Then you're not very observant. HAHA, *points at Jerry* what a fucking retard!

*points at Jerry* what a fucking retard!

#112 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-11-19 02:09 PM

Only a water on the brain such as yourself would feel the need to * point at jerry*.

I know you're addressing me, Idiot.

would feel the need to * point at jerry*.

I know you're addressing me

#113 | Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-11-19 02:10 PM | Flag: Butthurt

I think it is fair to say that the Book of Psalms is as irrelevent to Obama as it is to Jesus, though Christians will deny the latter when it suits their purpose.

Photoshopped by a rightist to spread hate

#107 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-19 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Complete unwillingness to face reality

Yeah, rcade - because this one is so much more palatable:

www.zombietime.com

#97 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 01:10 PM | Reply

You're right nanc. He needs to be tried for crimes against humanity first, then "supported".

Damn little difference between KSM and Bush/Cheney.

Yeah, rcade - because this one is so much more palatable.

You've made 19 comments in this thread (more than 10 percent of the total), and none of them condemn the use of Psalms to wish for a president's death.

The only thing I can conclude from that is you don't find it tasteless and offensive to see religion perverted in that manner.

"None of your posts linked to a major network reporting."

LOL. Says the guy who routinely posts links to Youtube videos posted by quacks in order to back up his far fetched claims.

Crazy can be fun. But crazy with no integrity just sucks.

#107 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-19 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Complete unwillingness to face reality

#116 | Posted by JOE at 2009-11-19 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag Complete unwillingness to face reality

Link to a major newsource. Zombietime.com has less credibility than the Onion. Here is their home page. LOL

www.zombietime.com

You've made 19 comments in this thread (more than 10 percent of the total), and none of them condemn the use of Psalms to wish for a president's death.

Interesting. And revealing.

Flag: Complete unwillingness to face reality

#116 | Posted by JOE at 2009-11-19 02:26 PM | Reply |

yeah. Like you're a "lawyer'.

LOL. Says the guy who routinely posts links to Youtube videos posted by quacks in order to back up his far fetched claims.

Crazy can be fun. But crazy with no integrity just sucks.

#119 | Posted by Taint at 2009-11-19 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who says they are quacks? YOU? With a name that equates to TAINT, I wouldn't be calling others quacks so easily--especially when the "quacks" are NASA and NOVA!!

Zombietime.com is like professional wrestling. It has its funny moments, but for the most part it is mindless garbage that certain kinds of idiots take way too seriously.

Wow!

Words can not express the pity and saddness I feel towards those who pray for Obama to die!!

Obviously their hearts are black and devoid of love and compassion.

It appears that some "Christians" need a refresher course in what Jesus taught.

BoOb is fucking crazy. It's a different kind of crazy from Celisary's crazy. It's also different from BL2 or Eddie crazy.
I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason I'd be pleased if the 4 of them made a Heaven's Gate type pact.

Obviously their hearts are black ...

An unfortunate phrase, Lisa, I think, in the circumstances.

Ah, Autumn. The leaves are turning beautiful colours and falling gently to the ground, the days are turning colder and the nights closing in. The hypochristians are on the hoof and the idiocy they love to spread is in full bloom. Too bad they just will never realize that there was only ever one true christian, but he died 2000 years ago. That's kinda lucky for those who take his words and twist them for evil and hate however, lucky that he isn't coming back that is.

"Who says they are quacks? YOU? With a name that equates to TAINT, I wouldn't be calling others quacks so easily--especially when the "quacks" are NASA and NOVA!!"

LOL. Now you're claiming that all your links come from NASA and NOVA? You are lying and you know it.

Like I said: Crazy with no integrity just sucks.

BBob is fascinated-by-the-possibility-
of-conspiracies-and-will-
never-back-down crazy.

Celisary is completely-insanely-angry-at-
rightwingers crazy (- but then again, so am I, albeit less colorfully).

BL2 is stupid idiot crazy

Eddie is desperately-trying-to-make-
sense-but-just-not-able-to-
make-the-connection crazy

Sorry Sitdown. I don't think in those terms. People are people to me no matter what their skin looks like.

However, I do see your point and it's well taken.

Their hearts are empty...

Eddie is not that bad.

A little misguided at times but he's ok some times.

been said before but worth mentioning

Bush was hated cause he started and failed at 2 wars, tortured people, spied on his own citizens, ignored NO during a devestating natural disaster, was lax in preventing 9/11, responded to 9/11 by telling us to shop, sold our military to defense contractors, bailed out wealthy banks and wall street bankers to the tune of trillions of dollars...

Obama is hated because he wants to give health care to all US citizens and passed a stimulus package to help the economy.

None of your posts linked to a major network reporting. All your posts are suspect. It against federal law to threaten the life of the POTUS. All such threats are taken seriously. All such threats are investigated. To carry such signs would have instigated instant arrest and made the news. That no arrests were made, and none of your links made the news, means your links are lies. No liberal ever threatened Bush's life--to do so would mean they aren't liberal. They may be anarchists, but certainly not liberal.

Here is the reality--here is how serious the Secret Service takes death threats against the POTUS. It makes major news outlets.

www.thesmokinggun.com

www.pennlive.com

#107 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

shhhhh bob, the right thinks the secret service is a left wing socialist organization.

the right thinks the secret service is a left wing socialist organization

It its a secret, how would they know?

May I add to the quality of this thread that in my view the election of President Obama is one of the most interesting and intelligent things this strange country has achieved in my lifetime. I was for it for two years before it happened, and I never thought it could happen. Those who hate him - look into yourselves before you start Old Testament bullshit t-shirt crap.

from the article --

Some religious zealots have taken their dislike of President Barack Obama to a new level -- bumper stickers and t-shirts which urge people to pray for the president's death...

What a bunch of sick mother f--kers to pray for a man's death -- any man's death -- simply because they don't like his politics.

I'm starting to have some real misgivings about some of these radical zealot groups who call themselves "Christians." In reality, they are themselves Godless to wish for a person's death to further their own political agenda and not Christian in any sense of the word.

Moder8 is just a fucking retard.

You know it is simply amazing how un-Christian so many Christians are. WAKE UP!

Makes me think of things like the Crusades, Purging of the Knights Templar, Spanish Inquisition, Suppression of the Cathars, Slavery, Salem Witch trials, Christian Missionary Atrocities, Magdalene Asylums and so many other notably "Christian" events of the past couple Millenniums.

A little misguided at times but he's ok some times.

#132 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-11-19 02:58 PM | Reply

Wow, wow, wow. Eddie is a skirt. A dame. A broad.

Should be whoa whoa whoa.

"You know it is simply amazing how un-Christian so many Christians are."

Don't you know that every outrage committed by Christianity in the last 2000 years, from Inquisitions to Fred Phelps' demonstrations were actually committed by "false" Christians? "True" Christians don't do those things.

Don't you know that every outrage committed by Christianity in the last 2000 years, from Inquisitions to Fred Phelps' demonstrations were actually committed by "false" Christians? "True" Christians don't do those things.
Posted by nullifidian

Isn't that true by definition?

"Obama is hated because he wants to give health care to all US citizens and passed a stimulus package to help the economy." #133 | Posted by truthhurts

Dear Truthhurts,

I am just going to assume that you are one of those logical people that understands that you cannot get "something for nothing". With that said what do you think these items will cost you personally? You don't have to answer, just think?

"I am just going to assume that you are one of those logical people that understands that you cannot get "something for nothing".

Oh, you mean not a Republican who believes you can pass tax cuts during wars and not expect huge debts.

and none of them condemn the use of Psalms to wish for a president's death.

#118 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-19 02:30 PM

Psalms wasn't used to wish for a president's death. Psalms was used to wish him out of office. "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."

Plenty of crazy right wingers openly wishing for his death, but this in particular a lot to do about nothing.

"from Inquisitions to Fred Phelps' demonstrations"

You're equating the two? The Inquisitions were conducted by the largest Christian organization on the planet at the time. Fred Phelps is loathed by 99.999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999
9999999% of all Christians.

If the only way you can get bridge the gap from the Inquisitions to the present is to use Fred Fucking Phelps, you may want to consider that mainstream Christianity has become somewhat less harmful over the last few centuries.

"Psalms wasn't used to wish for a president's death. Psalms was used to wish him out of office. "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."

Er...sorry but no, I think they want him dead.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

#145 | Posted by danni

Dear Danni,
What ever you do don't think about my question.

GOP (sic) is Love.

Posted by #148 Danni,

Er...sorry but no, I think they want him dead.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

"utilizing the slogan "Pray for Obama - Psalm 109:8".

Dear Danni,
If they wanted him dead wouldn't they have put Psalm 109:9 on the shirt rather than 109:8?

"With that said what do you think these items will cost you personally?"

I'm not concerned about it, I have a close relative that is in the hospital, without insurance, right now and will owe $250,000+ when they leave. I wouldn't mind paying a little more tax, if in fact it ended up that way, to help others avoid that situation. How about you??? You that selfish that if a few dollars of taxes would make sure Americans have coverage you wouldn't be willing to pay it???? If so, that's just sad.

"If they wanted him dead wouldn't they have put Psalm 109:9 on the shirt rather than 109:8?"

If they didn't they wouldn't have put Psalm 109, which is titled "A Cry for Vengeance" on their shirt at all.

What don't you understand about "let his days be few"?????

Pretty clear what these "Christians" mean. Just be glad that most of us don't assume all Christians agree with them but please, defending them or trying to pretend it isn't clear what they mean....that just tells me you may not totally disagree with these sick fucks.

Dear Danni,
Since you are feeling so generous why don't you just pay all of your relatives bill rather then take money from my children to pay for your relative. Wouldn't it make more sense if you took care of your family and I took care of mine?

"Wouldn't it make more sense if you took care of your family and I took care of mine?"

No, it wouldn't make more sense because you don't know that your children will always be able to afford health insurance any more than I can know mine will. Health care for America is an investment into both your children's and my children's future.

#118 | Posted by rcade - I don't see the perversion in the verse - When a Christian recognizes a problem in government they're bound to pray all sorts of things - why are you offended? People who don't believe shouldn't be offended at all.

Frankly, I NEVER pray for his demise - I want him to live to a ripe old age in complete and utter humiliation when this entire debacle is over. But then again, I realize as a nation we get just what we deserve and we've slighted God so now we must pay the price - in the form of the government's we've chosen for decades without ever checking to see whether they had the good of THE PEOPLE in mind or their own agendas.

Danni,

Has a representative for your relative been to a state DSS/DHS office to speak with a social worker (not the Fed SS office, but state T19/Voc Rehab office)?

For people that truly could not afford insurance before hospitalization or may be able to return to work after hospitalization, voc rehab and T19 have some programs to mitigate these loses.

For people with real assets or middle class incomes, these programs will not work (obviously - that's why the HCR debates' been going on). Currently, the only thing available to them is HDHP type plans where you can get one with a $10k deductible for the same or less than most auto policies....

#120 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob - zombie is a very well-respected photo journalist - she goes where others wouldn't set foot.

Dear Danni,

"If they didn't they wouldn't have put Psalm 109,"???

But they didn't put Psalm 109 on the shirt did they?

The put Psalm 109:8 on the shirt.

Wouldn't Psalm 109:9 conveyed the message a lot clearer to the public so you and I wouldn't have to be speculating as to what their intentions were?

For the record I hope this President lives a thousand years, that way he might have a chance to actually earn that Noble Peace Prize.

Anyone who is actually wishing ill on the president is one sick slob... Remember, Biden's #2...

LOL. Now you're claiming that all your links come from NASA and NOVA? You are lying and you know it.

I never saidALL my links conme from NASA and NOVA--just the ones about the smokestack. I see why you call youself a name equal to TAINT.

e I said: Crazy with no integrity just sucks.

Says the liar with no integrity and is crazy as a loon. LOL

#129 | Posted by Taint at 2009-11-19 02:53 PM | Reply | Flag

"Obama is hated because he wants to give health care to all US citizens and passed a stimulus package to help the economy." #133 | Posted by truthhurts

Dear Truthhurts,

I am just going to assume that you are one of those logical people that understands that you cannot get "something for nothing". With that said what do you think these items will cost you personally? You don't have to answer, just think?

#144 | Posted by Dirk

hahahahahahah dear dirk

if you would like to discuss spending priorities I would be happy to.

OK lets cut the $3trillion wasted in Iraq and cut the defense budget by 75%, then we should have plenty of money for health care for all with some money left over to educate all our graduating highschoolers.

"Health care for America is an investment into both your children's and my children's future."

I appreciate all your concern for my children.

#120 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob - zombie is a very well-respected photo journalist - she goes where others wouldn't set foot.

#158 | Posted by nanc at 2009-11-19 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Her pics have been proven lies. She is respected only by those who want to believe her lies.

Link to a respected news site like I did.

"Health care for America is an investment into both your children's and my children's future."

I appreciate all your concern for my children.

#163 | Posted by Dirk

dirk doesnt understand that he pays for it anyway.

#162 | Posted by truthhurts at 2009-11-19 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well said, and well thought. Too bad Dirk thinks he is a thinker. He will never have balanced thought.

If they wanted him dead wouldn't they have put Psalm 109:9 on the shirt rather than 109:8?

So now context doesn't matter? Cafeteria Christians. Idiots. Anyone wearing a t-shirt or having a bumper sticker like this on their car deserve the same treatment as the radical/extremist Muslims.

Posted by #162 Truthhurts

"OK lets cut the $3trillion wasted in Iraq and cut the defense budget by 75%, then we should have plenty of money for health care for all with some money left over to educate all our graduating highschoolers."

Dear Truthhurts,
Why don't we just get rid of the military all together? We could rely on the good will of China and Russia to keep us safe given their track record on humanity. Then we could all just sit around the camp fire and sing Kum Ba Yah.

nah we should keep a military for its true purpose to defend our nation not to project power across the globe.

over $1TRILLION per year.

Then we could all just sit around the camp fire and sing Kum Ba Yah.

you should spend time reconsidering things, or in your case considering things.

Start with where america stands vs the world in measurables like quality of life, health, time off, freedoms, etc etc etc.

The only thing we are the best at is killing people.

Perhaps if we reconfigured our economy away from bombs we might improve our nation.

BBob is fascinated-by-the-possibility-
of-conspiracies-and-will-
never-back-down crazy.

#130 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-19 02:53 PM | Reply | Flag

I would gladly "back down" if faced with something logical. Kerosene doesn'r burn hot enough to weaken steel, especially in an oxygen starved smoky fire. Metal should not still be red hot six weeks after the event. Thinking you could get the Towers to fall into their own footprints like a controlled demolition just by taking out a few floors near the top is the logic of fools. Thinking such things like that are normal makes you the one who never backs down in the face of reality.

"The only thing we are the best at is killing people."
Posted by #170 Truthhurts

"The only thing we are the best at is killing people."
Posted by #170 Truthhurts

"The only thing we are the best at is killing people."
Posted by #170 Truthhurts

"The only thing we are the best at is killing people."
Posted by #170 Truthhurts

"The only thing we are the best at is killing people."
Posted by #170 Truthhurts

My work here is done.

dirk dirk dirk dirk

educate yourself,

PLEASE

Or maybe I could ask you to name 5 things that america does better than any other nation in the world

#172 | Posted by Dirk at 2009-11-19 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag: mindless robot

"I appreciate all your concern for my children."

Just for the record Dirk, I sincerely do care about everyone's kids, they are our future, their health is important to me.

"Why don't we just get rid of the military all together? We could rely on the good will of China and Russia to keep us safe given their track record on humanity."

I don't want to get rid of the military but if we don't quit sending all of our manufacturing jobs to China we won't be in any position to even equip our own military should a real war ever arise. It is certainly not in our national security interests to outsource manufacturing. Had we done that pre-WWII, we wouldn't have won that war.
And anyone that thinks COMMUNIST CHINA isn't a threat is indulging in wishful thinking.
Our corporations are making profits by weakening our country.
That's why I consider most of the CEOs to be traitors.

I would gladly "back down" if faced with something logical.

You mean like when I pointed out that the horizontal shadow on the cloud was most likely that way because of the orientation of the camera, but you insisted that an invisible UFO was a more logical explanation? LOL

You're version of logic differs from 99.9% of the rest of the world, bOoB.

BB - how have Zombie's photos been proven lies? When others have corroborated same?

www.photius.com

12th in HDI

www.photius.com

#1 in Arms suppliers-pssst BY FAR

www.photius.com

24th in Life Expectancy

www.allcountries.org

#1 in Prison population-psst by far

www.photius.com

Child well being in rich countries

19 out of 20

www.photius.com

Global Peace Index-96

Freedom of the press 9th place

photius.com

Soundness of banks 108www.photius.com

to name a few indices

I don't see the perversion in the verse - When a Christian recognizes a problem in government they're bound to pray all sorts of things - why are you offended?

Because it's offensive to wish for the death of the president of the United States. Any truly patriotic American would never express that hope.

pUnk bOy

The camera was oriented in the correct position. Only people with your delusions think the camera was tilted. Only people with your delusions think a vertical contrail leaves a horizontal shadow.

A UFO expert today described the unknown craft which appears to be tracking the weapon as "phenomenal".

A US report on Fox News revealed the UFO in footage of the second launch.

The video shows the Shahab-3 rocket soaring into the sky.

But after 38 seconds a nearby cloud is mysteriously torn in two by a flying object travelling at speed.

Nick Pope, a respected former UFO analyst for the Ministry of Defence, examined the remarkable footage

He hinted that whatever ripped through the cloud was not man made.

He said: "One theory is that it's a secret American drone. At any time there are prototype aircraft and drones being operated that won't be shown in public for years.

"Stealth aircraft flew for many years before their existence was acknowledged.

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

www.thesun.co.uk

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

Where's your 99%? LOL

Waiting on you.

;-)

The camera was oriented in the correct position. Only people with your delusions think the camera was tilted.

???

How do you know? I often turn my camera 90 degrees to capture a shot. All photographers do. How do you know this one wasn't? You seem awful sure.

Waiting on you

A UFO expert today described the unknown craft which appears to be tracking the weapon as "phenomenal".

That's interesting. It couldn't be seen.

OOPS! There's an invisible UFO in the room with me right now. And it's Phenomenal. LOL

But after 38 seconds a nearby cloud is mysteriously torn in two by a flying object travelling at speed.

THat was a shadow. I saw the picture.

"But the speed and acceleration seems phenomenal. I'm not convinced we've got anything capable of such manoeuvres."

People who spam have nothing else.

Thanks, bOoB.

The camera was oriented in the correct position.

How do you know?

Still waiting on you. LOL

Read more: www.thesun.co.uk
Read more: www.thesun.co.uk
Read more: www.thesun.co.uk
Read more: www.thesun.co.uk
Read more: www.thesun.co.uk

You cite The Sun for your facts? LOL Tell us what the National Enquirer says about it, too. I think it's the story right after the one about the BatBoy. LOL

Er...sorry but no, I think they want him dead.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

#148 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-19 03:45 PM

Except 9 wasn't referenced at all. Just 8. So scratch off 9, and all you have is,

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

Nothing to see here but a bunch of pansies looking for a reason to play the victim.

The camera was oriented in the correct position.

How do you know?

Still waiting on you. LOL

Except 9 wasn't referenced at all.

Do you honestly think that the asshats behind this slogan have no idea that Psalm 109:8 is followed by Psalm 109:9 -- a direct hope for the death of the person in Psalm 109:8?

Do you honestly think that the asshats behind this slogan have no idea that Psalm 109:8 is followed by Psalm 109:9 -- a direct hope for the death of the person in Psalm 109:8?

#189 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-19 05:48 PM

I think the asshats who made this slogan aren't that clever.

I also think that if they wanted the end reader to look at :9, they're boorish enough to have just made it Psalm 109:8-9.

"I also think that if they wanted the end reader to look at :9, they're boorish enough to have just made it Psalm 109:8-9."

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Just like 88, or Krazee's Kountry Korner.

It's all conjecture, whichever side of this "debate" you're on, so Riiiiiiiiiiight is as good an answer as any.

"I think the asshats who made this slogan aren't that clever."

I don't buy it. The reference was made by believers for believers who knew full well the context. If anything, it was a way to make an allusion without taking credit/responsibility for it.

"passed a stimulus package to help the economy."

With this kind of friends, who needs enemies. BS plain and simple. He passed a bill that he knew would make it worse and that is his plan with Cap and tax and HC as well.

50% of the US now gets some kind of Govt check.

Just what he wants. And it will go higher unless he is stopped. We will stop him.

I don't understand how athiests, agnostics or even your ordinary Jesus-hating individuals would take offense to something they have no belief in - isn't it all a fairy tale to them?

It's not like they're saying something believable, correct?

Much ado about nothing. As usual.

Mene, mene, tekel, upsharsin...

Enjoy it while you can!

This is just the type of thing I was referring to in the thread I posted a few days ago about rightwing hate. It is out of control. It is unprecedented. And rather than acknowledge it, rightwingers deny it, and claim that leftwingers do the same thing (which simply is not true in terms of degree or extent).
Rightwing hatred is currently probably a greater danger to America than Al Qaeda or any other single external threat.

#27 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-19 11:25 AM

I HATE crybabies. Especially wishy washy crybabies.

Your HATRED is noted. Again.

It must suck to be a rightwinger and always have to once again realize that the liberals are correct in their observations about rightwingers.

May his days be few;

That is all that really matters, it isn't difficult to decipher what it means. To deny that it is a wish for him to have a short life is simply to lie.

Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him;
let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.

7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.

11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.

13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.

14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

LISA! HELP ME OUT HERE! COULD SCRIPTURE BE SO CRUEL!!!!????

Psalm 109 is a prayer to request that evil be destroyed.

Since Jesus, we are to pray for our "enemies"...pray that they have a change of heart, praying that they have wisdom etc, etc.

We are also to go in prayer with a clean, pure heart.

If these republicans are praying for Obama's death...not only will their prayers go unanswered they risk their own souls.

May his days be few;

That is all that really matters, it isn't difficult to decipher what it means.

#198 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-19 06:49 PM

Yeah, 1 term instead of 2.

"If these republicans are praying for Obama's death...not only will their prayers go unanswered they risk their own souls."

That may be true but I think God ought to reward them with a bolt of lightning. Doesn't have to actually hit them but a good warning bolt would maybe let them know He is not amused.

:Yeah, 1 term instead of 2."

punctuation between the two parts indicates two seperate thoughts. "May his days be few" clearly means may he have a short life. My 12 year old grandson would know that, and you do too, but it isn't convenient so you pretend not to. It's called LYING. As in LIAR. As in PANTS ON FIRE!

Booj:

It is a prayer for retributive justice. Do I think the verbage is graphic and strong? Yes I do.

However, there is a legitimate righteous indignation against sin. Evil is the enemy of God, is it not?

When Jesus commanded us to pray "thy Kingdom come", the coming of God's Kingdom would mean the destruction of evil.

I find it sad that you seem to call out my name when criticizing Scripture, Booj.

What do you feel threatened about Mr. Catholic?! : )

"That may be true but I think God ought to reward them with a bolt of lightning. Doesn't have to actually hit them but a good warning bolt would maybe let them know He is not amused."

Yes maam, His patience with the Abortion Mills has me a bit peeved as well.

In His time.

#202

LOL Danni!

I'm pretty sure God will discipline them in one way or another.

"In His time"

Absolutely true!!

I love it when the Godless left all of a sudden find their faith in the Word Of God.

It is comical to see.

And remember all you unbelievers who now cling to the Bible as if it were alive and living.

God hates shrimp.

Christians would NEVER quote a verse of Crapture... err... Scripture out of context and say it means something other than it really does!

Or so I have been told...over and over and over and over and over....

My gosh Lisa. Talk about creative interpretation. When children are brought into it in such vicious terms, that's not a prayer to destroy evil. That's a prayer to glorify evil. It probably had to do with Saul.

punctuation between the two parts indicates two seperate thoughts. "May his days be few" clearly means may he have a short life. My 12 year old grandson would know that, and you do too, but it isn't convenient so you pretend not to. It's called LYING. As in LIAR. As in PANTS ON FIRE!

#203 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-19 07:05 PM

LOL

Yeah, I'm lying. Cuz I care so much for the teabaggers. haha

Like I said, It's all conjecture. I think this is a case of a bunch of rubes making a retarded joke and not thinking it through. That you consider stating an opinion "lying" shows that you really only care about playing victim like a big pussy.

God hates shrimp.
#208 | POSTED BY THE_CHAPEL

But he loves the smell of burning flesh. It's in the Bible.

I'm pretty sure God will discipline them in one way or another.

#206 | Posted by Lisa

I don't think we need to wait for a God to step in...send the Secret Service.

Remember when that poor high school student was foolish enough to type Kill Bush on Myspace?

Julia Wilson, 14, got a surprise visit from two Secret Service agents Wednesday at McClatchy High after the words "Kill Bush" appeared on MySpace.com. Her mom, Kirstie Wilson, says she should have been present when her daughter was questioned.

I am pretty sure that any reference to the demise of President Bush was thoroughly investigated. I even got in trouble here on the DR for joking about it once.

But he loves the smell of burning flesh. It's in the Bible.

#212 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-19 07:14 PM

Who doesn't? Vegetarians maybe?

David wrote the Psalms, and God said David was a man after his own heart...

So David prayed that prayer to God and if it was an evil sinful prayer the way some people try to make it, then God would have never said, David was a man after his own heart...

So David prayed that prayer to God and if it was an evil sinful prayer the way some people try to make it, then God would have never said, David was a man after his own heart...

Unless God is evil too.

Ray,

You know I love ya, but creative interpretation is your specialty! : )

God hates shrimp.

#208 | Posted by The_Chapel

God hates a lot of stuff on Earth. God appears to have an AWFUL lot of HUMAN emotions for a God.

Donner:

I am in absolute agreement...send in the Secret Service.

What a couple we would make, Lisa. ;)

Lisa,
But why then do the descendants of the evil one get dinged here?

Could it just be strong prose, but not really serious???

Quite frankly this particular Psalm reads a bit like some of the stuff I read in the Quran. Wayyy over the top.

I'm pretty sure God will discipline them in one way or another.

#206 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-11-19 07:08 PM

So....using your "logic", "god" was asleep at the wheel on 9/11.

Lemme guess.

People making the choice between leaping or getting incinerated to their deaths was your god's "plan".

And Lisa,
I don't feel threatened by you-I like dialoguing with you.

You got class.

I'll await your reply Lisa.

LOL

It was a prayer to DESTROY EVIL Ray...not an evil prayer.

See what I mean?? LOL

Of course your response is going to force me to say:

If God is creator, it is within HIS right to rid evil.

As a parent it is YOUR right (and responsibility) to discipline your children when they have done bad things.

As an employer, the employer has the RIght to fire those not performing positively for that company.

Look Ray, you are not a believer and we have agreed to disagree and not discuss this subject.

Remember!?

Gotta run for a bit.

God hates shrimp.

#208 | Posted by The_Chapel at 2009-11-19 07:10 PM

Do you think he's tried the cocktail sauce?

People making the choice between leaping or getting incinerated to their deaths was your god's "plan".

#222 | Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-11-19 07:27 PM

I'm sure God has a plan for you too, Jerry.

Ray # 216---unless God is evil too.

Ans. If you don't know then you are ignornat too.

The camera was oriented in the correct position.

How do you know?

Still waiting on you. LOL

Looks like da bOoB got caught talking out of his ass again.

Ans. If you don't know then you are ignornat too.
#228 | POSTED BY DR_FEELGOOD

Well I certainly know when you are ignorant. If there is evil, and there is, then God is not omnibenevolent.

"That you consider stating an opinion "lying" shows that you really only care about playing victim like a big pussy."

I don't see how I was playing victim, I just won't pretend not to understand a simple phrase from a psalm and I don't believe you don't understand it too. I don't believe the people using it on their T-shirts or bumper stickers don't understand it.
Sorry, really don't want to offend and I was sort of trying to be humorous but I just don't. Can't. Won't. A person would have to be incapable of reading simple English not to understand the phrase and exactly what it means.

"
So David prayed that prayer to God and if it was an evil sinful prayer the way some people try to make it, then God would have never said, David was a man after his own heart...

Unless God is evil too."

I think the object of the prayer has something to do with the "goodness" of the prayer. If David had been saying that prayer and the object was Hitler then it wouldn't be evil to pray that prayer, if he were saying it and the object were the current President of the United States then David would, indeed, be an evil POS.
God, can't be judged by us but if He were I think how He acted upon the prayer would determine if he were good or evil.

"If there is evil...God is not omnibenevolent..."

Gets you into some interesting territory, including man's ever shifting fads in regards to what constitutes evil.

God is omnipatient. Thsi accounts for some apaprent paradoxes.

What's fascinating is I've seen atheists assert there is no God because there is evil, and also assert there is no God because evil doesn't exist.

Can't see their asses for swallowing their own tails.

God, can't be judged by us but if He were I think how He acted upon the prayer would determine if he were good or evil.

Be careful, Danni. God hates socialists.

He acted upon the prayer would determine if he were good or evil.

It so happens that David's arch enemy, Saul, and his family died cruel deaths. Also, David's rise to replace King Saul had to do with his superior skills at killing Philistines.

God is omnipatient. Thsi accounts for some apaprent paradoxes.
#233 | POSTED BY ZED

Only if one accepts the absurd contradiction between evil and omnipotentcy.

What's fascinating is I've seen atheists assert there is no God because there is evil, and also assert there is no God because evil doesn't exist.

Zed is hallucinating again. Who in their right mind would say evil doesn't exist?

Why do Christians hate America?

"Who in their right mind would say evil doesn't exist....?"

A good question. All I know is a few of them post here.

This is typical of the press trying to paint Christians as hate mongering to justify there believe that "all religions are alike" and the politcally correct way that they want to treat Muslims.

It does not say Psalms 109 - it says 109:8 It is a joke - May his days in office be few. That is it..nothing more. The rest is biased conjecture for those who hate Christians. Like many of you who posted above.

"It does not say Psalms 109 - it says 109:8 It is a joke - May his days in office be few."

Yeah cuz FOSHAFFER can't understand what "May his days be few" means.

However, Christians are no longer bound to the Old Law as explained in Galatians 3.

#23 | Posted by HerkDriver

Yep, them 10 commandments are just a couple pieces of rock.

Why do Christians hate America?
.......#237 | Posted by igmoramus

.....because the Constitution keeps getting in the way of the establishment of a Talibaptist state.......

If this is true it's terribly sad. As much as I dislike Obama I would never wish harm to him or even an early exit. We already have seen what impeachment does to this country and we don't need that again. What is it with people? When Bush was in office there wasn't a day that went by that Someone from the left wasn't screaming for impeachment and now this. Sad.

Look. I haven't got the time or energy to waste thinking about or hating Obama. He's another politician, a bona fide member of the criminal class. I don't really give a shit what happens to him. If he was to suddenly die, another criminal would take his place.

I remember when Kennedy was shot. Other than being interested in the event and what followed, it had no impact on my life. It seems to me like too many people have raised the office of president to god status.

"Other than being interested in the event and what followed, it had no impact on my life."

You can't know that. I've read in many places taht he did not intend to escalate the war in Vietnam. Had we not continued that war it would have effected you because it would have effected, in some way, every American.

If he was to suddenly die, another criminal would take his place.

So what the Christians really want is Joe Biden for President? How strange of them! I don't even think I want Joe Biden for President! Or perhaps they just can't think these things (Like ZombieGods or Life after Death) through to their logical conclusions.

If he was to suddenly die, another criminal would take his place.

So what the Christians really want is Joe Biden for President? How strange of them! I don't even think I want Joe Biden for President! Or perhaps they just can't think these things (Like ZombieGods or Life after Death) through to their logical conclusions.

#246 | Posted by donnerboy
Dildoboy, he is more qualified than the HNIC you voted for.

"Other than being interested in the event and what followed, it had no impact on my life."

You can't know that. I've read in many places taht he did not intend to escalate the war in Vietnam. Had we not continued that war it would have effected you because it would have effected, in some way, every American.

#245 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-20 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag
kennedy almost started a war with the soviets because he lied and failed to back the bay of pigs, he was a shitty president...

Religion. What a Joke.

It's Followers: Pack of Morons.

Drop the Bibles and step away from the evil.

You can't know that. I've read in many places taht he did not intend to escalate the war in Vietnam. Had we not continued that war it would have effected you because it would have effected, in some way, every American.
#245 | POSTED BY DANNI

Politicians do what they say they won't do all the time.We'll never know what Kennedy would have done. Eisenhower had the sense to keep out of Vietnam. By Kennedy's time, the idea of containing communism was beginning to take root in Washington. Which is what I think was the underlying reason for helping the exhausted French.

The Vietnam War had no effect on my life. What has affected my life is that great big tax sucking machine we call government.

So what the Christians really want is Joe Biden for President? How strange of them! I don't even think I want Joe Biden for President! Or perhaps they just can't think these things (Like ZombieGods or Life after Death) through to their logical conclusions.
#246 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I wouldn't give Christians credit for thinking that far ahead.

"What has affected my life is that great big tax sucking machine we call government."

Which spent that money on wars.

#252 | POSTED BY DANNI

Money spent on wars, waste, welfare, crippling regulations and corruption. The whole fucking system is infested with termites, leaches and cockroaches.

would youy prefer psalm 109:9

May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow

"It's (religion's) followers a pack of morons.."

Thus speaks a person who identifies self with a lump of cooked dough.

Here is truth, to blanket label any professing Christians as being part and parcel of the so-called Christian right when their behavior decries the doctrine of unbelievers is at best ignorant error. One of the most basic tenets of Christianity is adhering to the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill", which most certainly includes not using prayer in order to have God to kill someone.
Now having said that under the Old Covenant God permitted the Israelites to kill others under special circumstances as punishment for certain sins, which is NO longer the case under the New Covenant.
In conclusion, if a person walks,talks & acts like a Christian it's likely they are, however no one knows the true heart of anyone so be cautious in your judgement or appraisal of a persons claims that they are in fact Christian.
Matt 7:16 We will know them by their fruit

Fundamentalism in all religions is wrong. I have no respect for anyone wishing this psalm on any other human being.

Matt 7:16 We will know them by their fruit

#256 | Posted by Hlloona

is THIS considered fruit?

Then you may indeed know me by it!

#258

In your case I thinks it's ALL food groups! : )

LOL

It's just wrong to pray for ill or death on another.

Like the left wasn't praying for Bush/Cheney to crok and they aren't even religious...

Vote him out of office.

Eisenhower had the sense to keep out of Vietnam.

Educate yourself, then you won't say stupid things.

www.fsmitha.com

By Kennedy's time, the idea of containing communism was beginning to take root in Washington. Which is what I think was the underlying reason for helping the exhausted French.

Educate yuourself, then you won't say stupid things.

www.fsmitha.com

The Vietnam War had no effect on my life. What has affected my life is that great big tax sucking machine we call government.

It had the effect of leaving you ignorant of its beginnings and history.

#250 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-20 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

pUnk bOy

...

Waiting on you.

;-)

#180 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-19 05:17 PM


Just couldn't pass that one up. LOL

not much of a obama fan but that is extremly sick thing to pray for

BuffaloBob -

Hope you come back to this thread so you can see this post.

You know what a history buff I am, including the Civil War. Also enjoy genealogy a lot.

When you told me about your great-great grandfather named "Yoder" I found this book on the internet -- a great resource of names of Ohioans in the Civil War who served with Opdycke's Tigers.

Would any (or all) of these three "Yoders" who served with Company "F" (their names are shown half way down on page 20) in this book -- 125th Ohio (3 Years Service) "Opdycke's Tigers" -- possibly be your family member(s) who served in the Civil War?

It would not be unheard of for there to be brothers, cousins, etc. all named "Yoder" who served together in the same regiment during the Civil War.

Thought this info might be of interest to you if one (or more) of them were actually related to you.

BuffaloBob

Re #264

I tried to have the link open directly on to page 20 but it went back to page 1. Just forward the pages to page 20 and you'll see the three "Yoder" names.

Unless of course it's OBL..

New blog post: Death Threat In Psalm 109:8?

obamaprayers.blogspot.com

Califchris

Thanks for that link. I hadn't seen it before. My great great grandfather was Eli Yoder--1844-1915---shown in your link as age 20.

I bought this book from amazon.com, written by Emerson Opdyke the commander of the 125th Ohio. www.amazon.com Opdyke was with the 41st OVI before founding the 125th OVI. It is his letters to his wife that explains day to day life in a way I hadn't experienced before in any history book. It details the battles, and the 125th was a very prominent collection of men. I wasn't that aware of the western theater of the Civil War before reading that book, having been mostly educated about Sherman and Grant. The Battle of Franklin was especially critical to the war effort, and I don't recall even hearing about it in school. What a battle--15 waves of confederate chargesto try to break the union lines--the fighting lasting almost till midnight---the dead were stacked 3 deep---and the 125th was crucial in the Union victory---charging into the breach and recapturing cannons the rebels had just captured and were about to turn on union forces. Had the confederates broken through, they could have rolled the whole union line, and made the war last even longer. It was as crucial as the 20th Massechussetts at Gettysburg.

When I was a kid my grandfather had a cannonball on his back porch---I never asked him about it, or talked with him about his father or grandfather, who I'm sure he knew well. A loss of communication I will always regret.

I knew of Jacob Yoder, but not Alexander. I am sure they were all related. Eli was born in Ostrander Ohio, and there are lots of Carpenters there now--it is a very small town, and not far from here. I plan to go very soon and see if I can find any pictures of Eli, and rekindle some family ties. We had a family reunion there in the fifties, but I know of no other contact.

Let his days be few; And let another take his office.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

109:6-20 The Lord Jesus may speak here as a Judge, denouncing sentence on some of his enemies, to warn others. When men reject the salvation of Christ, even their prayers are numbered among their sins. See what hurries some to shameful deaths, and brings the families and estates of others to ruin; makes them and theirs despicable and hateful, and brings poverty, shame, and misery upon their posterity: it is sin, that mischievous, destructive thing. And what will be the effect of the sentence, Go, ye cursed, upon the bodies and souls of the wicked! How

BuffaloBob

Califchris

Thanks for that link. I hadn't seen it before. My great great grandfather was Eli Yoder--1844-1915---shown in your link as age 20.

...

Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-21 11:14 PM | Reply


I'm thrilled you maybe found another ancestor with Alexander Yoder. Don't have time now to discuss it and the Battle of Franklin (of which I was familiar), but wanted to let you know I read your #268 and saved it. I had some more comments to make after reading it, but am up to my neck today in repair work on the house -- painting, pulling up carpet in order to show the wood floors, etc. -- and I'm the only one here to do all this work so don't have time now but will catch up to you in a few days to talk further about some items in your post.

Was looking around last night on Google, and did you know there is actually a Yoder Family Newsletter? You should check it out. Looks like quite an active record is kept on the Yoder family members.

(btw -- who are the "Carpenters" you mentioned? The other side of your family?)

I looked at the link you put in your post of the other book and it must be a fascinating read. In my Googling travels last night, I came across this COMPLETE ONLINE TEXT of "Opdycke Tigers, 125th O.V.I., a history of the regiment and of the campaigns and battles of the Army of the Cumberland" all available to read over the internet by the NYPL Research Libraries. You might want to check it out if you haven't seen it. Probably easier to just print it out, though, and read it.

Okay, have to run. Yuck on all this construction/repair crap in getting this house ready. I never had to do this type of work before -- cut up the rugs and underliner, pry up the tack board nailed all around the walls which held the rug down, lug it all outside. Repair the frame around the kitchen sink and reseal it. Sand, primer and paint inside and out.

I have now forgotten what nailpolish even use to be like to wear and I have cuts and callouses (and now paint) all over my hands and they're sore too -- ugh. But in a good way, having to do it all myself I sure am getting a real "hands on" education about what it takes to repair and do construction work in and around a house. And I sure have learned a lot which I've found interesting and never thought I could do on my own -- although it sure can be hard work. later. Back to grindstone.

Califchris

Before I started the search, I had no idea there were any Yoders in my family tree. Eli Yoder had a daughter named Mattie, born in 1868. Mattie grew up and married Felix Carpenter, and they had 8 children of which my grandfather was the 3rd. My mothers maiden name was Carpenter so I found the origin of that name in my family line.

I don't know how many other children Eli had, and he may have been the founder of all the Yoders in Ohio. Driving around the countryside, I see the name all over the place. Back then, there was no TV, electricity, or birth control, so I imagine Eli had as many children as possible, just like Mattie and Felix. Even my Grandfather had 10 children in his family---8 who reached adulthood.

Considering the reproductive practices of the time and the Carpenters living in such a small town such as Ostrander for over a century, the town must be full of relatives of mine. I found many of the children of Mattie and Felix in the same graveyard they rest in, so many stayed in the area. I remember one of my grandfathers brothers from that reunion so long ago. He looked just like my grandfather to me, so I wasn't impressed, and had no concept of a "great uncle". But I do remember his smile.

Still, I am very proud to be descended from Eli, and when I go to visit in Ostrander, I want to know more about his history. I haven't read your link to the 125th OVI yet, but it is definitely on my list.

I hope your renovation project is going well, and is over soon. I know a lady likes to take care of their hands, so I think you are also longing for some renovation for them.

BuffaloBob -

I wanted to get back to you on your posts but, as you know, it's been crazy around here for me getting this place ready to sell. Today was another non-stop work day but hopefully it will all be done soon.

I'll have to do this post in 2 parts as it's too long.

You wrote above --

...I hope your renovation project is going well, and is over soon. I know a lady likes to take care of their hands, so I think you are also longing for some renovation for them.
#271 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-24 12:08 AM

That was kinda cute to say. Yes, "ladies do like to take care of their hands." But for now I've given up on "renovating" my hands or anything else anymore until this move is over. And as for even being able to wear jewelry like a simple ring? Forget it. And your hands get so sore too! Tonight I'm going to just soak them in hand creme to at least soften them a little. Can't even wear nailpolish -- at least for the next couple weeks of this work 'cause it just all chips off. I'm now in full "construction worker mode" LOL

I'm so proud of myself I'm gonna brag a little. *grin* I pulled up an entire rug in one bedroom -- the tacks, pryed off the boarding around the wall edges, pulled out all the rug staples -- and did it all by myself. I cut the rug and matting up with a pocketknife and then rolled the carpet all up (had to do it in four sections to be able to haul it out to the curb). Took me two days to finish but now the room looks so much better. I didn't know there was parquet wood flooring underneath the rugs and that's a big plus when you're trying to sell so hopefully it'll be worth it. But what a job! Whew! May not seem like a big deal to other people but for me I'd never done anything like that before.

NOW -- back to more fun and interesting stuff -- your quest to find out about your family tree!

I've saved the last three posts you've written on your genealogy so I could check out the names and then, when I finally have a chance to breathe again (after I've moved), I'll look into them further for you. I find genealogy fascinating.

btw -- What is your Eli Yoder's middle initial or name? There are many Yoders with the name "Eli" it would make it easier for you to narrow down specific info if you have his middle name too.

In the meantime, though, I did a little more researching for you in my spare minutes.

In looking up Felix Carpenter and Mattie Yoder whom you mentioned in your last post, it appears others in their lineage have been trying to find out about them too. Check out this link which names Felix and Mattie Carpenter and two of their children. (Someone in the "Wheeler family" was apparently trying to get some information on them and they are the same "Felix and Mattie" you mentioned.) Be sure to click on the links within the link too.

www.wheeler-roots.org

(continued below)

BuffaloBob

(continued from post #272)

I so envy you being able to take a trip to seek out information on your different family members plus get to tour through the Amish countryside. What an interesting and fun journey.

Doesn't this Yoder Amish farm in Ohio (linked below) look nice. You should put it on your travel list of places to see when you go.

www.yodersamishhome.com

Are you by chance Amish or are your relatives Amish? There are Amish and non-Amish Yoders. I also need to read up on the Mennonites to see how the two differ.

I probably seem to just be throwing these links at you (and I am) but I don't have time to go into them further right now 'cause, as you know , it's busy for awhile for me around here -- BUT I wanted you to be able to at least take a look at them in the meantime.

Here we go --

This link below is the "Yoder Guestbook" and seems to have a ton of info plus makes mention of some on there asking about a "Yoder Reunion." I'll bet if you contacted some of these people -- at least the Ohio Yoders -- a few could provide you with names and history? (btw -- this website "Rootsweb.com" is a fairly good one for genealogy research.)

resources.rootsweb.com

Did you know you are probably descended from German roots? It looks like the name "Joder" was the German name for "Yoder." Many times a surname is changed slightly over the years -- especially if they come over from Europe.

Here is a link to one of the Yoder Newsletters on the name "Joder" (this goes waaaaaay back to the 1600s). I had meant to tell you I saw the other day that the name and/or families of "Yoder" may have mixed with, or originated from, the "Joder" clan in Germany.

www.yodernewsletter.org

I'll end with this link -- which I gave you before upthread -- which gives a lot of info. If you are truly interested in finding out about your family history, then the one thing you MUST do, is sign up for the "Yoder Newsletter."

Also, here is a link to a book which is a compilation of years of pervious "Yoder Newsletters" -- openlibrary.org

Well, this should keep you busy reading until Christmas!

Hope you and your family have a nice Thanksgiving, BuffaloBob.

Califchris

I cut the rug and matting up with a pocketknife and then rolled the carpet all up (had to do it in four sections to be able to haul it out to the curb).

That is quite a feat. I'm sure you got the same exercise as if you had gone to a gym for a day. I would make a suggeston for you in any future repai endevors--a suggestion I follow myself whenever faced with a repair task I'm not familiar with. Go to Lowes or Home depot, and ask which tools are best for the job. Pocket knives aren't really designed for cutting carpet--the handle is too narrow and could easily give you a blister--the blade wouldn't be as sharp as a razor blade, which is what would be in a boxcutter. A boxcutter has a larger handle which fits your hand much better than a pocket knife, and glides through carpet like butter. The one I have has ten blades stored in the handle--when one gets dull, you just push a button, eject it, and another pops into place. Then you can turn the dull blade around and use the other half later since that half wasn't used. You probably could have done a 12 x 15 carpet in 15 minutes. However, your accomplishment is impressive. It not only shows your determination, but also your patience.

As to Eli, unfortunately, I don't know his middle initial, or the name of his father. His death certificate only says that he comes from Pennsylvania, and that his mother's maiden name was Hite. It doesn't give a location for Eli's boyhood home, and my only option is to go through Marriage certificates in Pa. and try to match a Yoder and a Hite marriage to census records for an Eli born in 1844.

I'm not Amish, and no one in my family is Amish. Even Eli must have been a rogue in his family since fought in the Civil War. Amish people are concientious objectors, and are excused from all wars and drafts for religious reasons. In addition, he married outside of his faith, so Eli may have started out Amish, but he didn't end up that way. That he didn't speak of his father much may be an indication of a split. I said that he died in 1915, but I was mistaken--it was 1914. He died of apoplexy, which is an old fashioned way of saying a stroke, when he was 69 years old. That is a good way to go--quick and painless. He deserved an easy death

When I go to visit, I may run into some Wheelers---they may be offshoots of Felix and Mattie with a different last name than Carpenter---like me. I'll pose a riddle for you since you are into geneology. My mother was born a Carpenter--My father was born a Stanley---but my last name is neither Carpenter or Stanley--and I didn't change my last name and I wasn't adopted. How did this happen?

BuffaloBob

Have read your #274 but I like to write (longer, more serious posts) when I'm in the mood so will get back to you later on here in a day or so. Just wanted to let you know I did read your latest post and have saved it.

I first heard about this last week while watching the Rachell Maddox Show. She had on Frank Schaeffer, who, along with his father, "helped shaped the Evangelical movement in the United States." The interview was very disturbing. Schaeffer claimed:

Really, this is trolling for assassins. And this is serious business.

Its un-American. Its unpatriotic.

And it goes to show that the religious right, the Republican far right, have coalesced into a group that truly want American revolution. And if it turns out to be blood in the streets and death, so be it. This is not funny stuff anymore. They cannot be dismissed as just crazies on the fringe. It only takes one.

You know, look at "The Boston Globe" article a few weeks ago saying that the threat level faced by the Secrete Service has gone up 400 percent, higher than any other time in 52 years for any president, Democrat or Republican. These are no jokes.

And as I talk about in "Patience with God," if you trace these origins back to this paranoid, evangelical group, of which me and my father, sadly, were not only leaders, but leaders in the 70s and 80s, the foot soldiers that people like Dick Armey and others are using now to push their political agenda onto health care, are also people that have within their ranks, people, such as the person who murdered Dr. Tiller and killed three police officers in Pittsburgh because they thought Obama would take away their guns.

This bumper sticker simply says to them: "Its open season."

Schaeffer also said:

Look, this is the American version of the Taliban. The Taliban quotes the Quran and al Qaeda quotes certain verses in the Quran, in and out of context, calling for jihad and bloody war and the curse of Allah on infidels.

This is the Old Testament biblical equivalent of calling for "Holy War." Now, most Americans will just see the bumper sticker and smile and think that its facetious. Unfortunately, there are 22 million Americans or so who just call themselves super-conservative evangelicals. Of this, a small minority might be violent, but the general atmosphere here is really getting heated.

And what surprises me is that responsible if you can put it that way Republican leadership and the editors of some of these Christian magazines, et cetera, et cetera, do not stand-up in holy horror and denounce this.

You know, theyre always asking, "Where is the Islamic leadership denouncing terrorism? Why arent the moderates speaking out?" Well, I challenge the folks who I used to work with, that I talk about in my book, "Patience with God," and I would just say to them, "Where the hell are you? This is not funny anymore. And be it on your head if something happens to our president, if you are going to go around supporting and not speaking out against this stuff.

Its just not a question of whos doing it. The bigger question is:

where are the people speaking out against these things? I dont hear those voices raised in the evangelical fundamentalist community. And until I do, my opinion is, they are culpable.

www.msnbc.msn.com

I think McCain, who is not an evangelical, saw what was happening and tried to dial down the rhetoric. Sarah Palin, on the other hand, who is an evangelical, did not.

Not sure where to post this, so I guess I'll post it here. Got this in an email this week. This piece is about Muslim extremists, but it applies to extremists of all stripes.

A German's View on Islam

A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care.

I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who ystematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a war mongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs,Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

Emanuel Tanay, M.D., a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist

BuffaloBob -

I know this post will likely have to be in two parts.

Re your # 274 --

You wrote about removing the carpeting:

That is quite a feat. I'm sure you got the same exercise as if you had gone to a gym for a day. I would make a suggeston for you in any future repair endevors--a suggestion I follow myself whenever faced with a repair task I'm not familiar with. Go to Lowes or Home depot, and ask which tools are best for the job.

Pocket knives aren't really designed for cutting carpet--the handle is too narrow and could easily give you a blister--the blade wouldn't be as sharp as a razor blade, which is what would be in a boxcutter. A boxcutter has a larger handle which fits your hand much better than a pocket knife, and glides through carpet like butter. The one I have has ten blades stored in the handle--when one gets dull, you just push a button, eject it, and another pops into place. Then you can turn the dull blade around and use the other half later since that half wasn't used....


Sorry, it was my fault for using the wrong term -- I did use a boxcutter, not a pocketknife as I had written. (I had been working all day and was kind of punchy when I wrote my post.) And yes, it does cut through a rug "like butter" so that was the easy part for me. Although I didn't know you could reverse the boxcutter blade and use the other end too so THANKS as that piece of info will save me money on new blades. I just went ahead and put in a new blade and didn't reverse the old one.

The tough part for me was prying up (and away from the wall) the 1-2" wide piece of wood nailed down all around the sides of the walls to hold down the carpet. I used a tool -- don't know what it's called -- which was straight and thin, about a foot long and 2" wide made of steel which had a split at the end -- like a two-pronged fork. I would put the forked end under the wooden strip and then hammer the other end of it until the board would lift away from the wooden floor and then tear it away and then work on another section. It would lift off in maybe 2 foot long pieces at a time. Then I had to go back and pull up any nails and/or staples left behind.

You, I'm sure, likely have more strength than I do but for me carrying the rug sections outside (actually dragging them outside) -- and especially having to move some heavy furniture out of the way to be able even to cut the rug -- were the parts I had trouble with doing. Cutting the rug was the least of it.

(continued below)

BuffaloBob

(Continued from # 278)

It's okay, though, as everything is coming together. Tonight I used a sealant after cleaning and replacing all the metal framing around the kitchen sink so once these minor things that needed to be finished are done I'm finished fixing this place up. Fun way to spend Thanksgiving weekend, huh?

Okay, I'm done bitching about my stupid house repairs now. LOL

btw -- I live at Lowe's. lol We have a nice, big new store less than 2 miles from my house. I've been there about 5 or 6 times in just the last month or so.

NOW BACK TO THE YODERS --

You wrote

As to Eli, unfortunately, I don't know his middle initial, or the name of his father. His death certificate only says that he comes from Pennsylvania, and that his mother's maiden name was Hite. It doesn't give a location for Eli's boyhood home, and my only option is to go through Marriage certificates in Pa. and try to match a Yoder and a Hite marriage to census records for an Eli born in 1844.

I'm not Amish, and no one in my family is Amish. Even Eli must have been a rogue in his family since fought in the Civil War. Amish people are concientious objectors, and are excused from all wars and drafts for religious reasons. In addition, he married outside of his faith, so Eli may have started out Amish, but he didn't end up that way....


The Eli Yoder in this link below, although born in 1844, is not likely the one you are looking for as he died in 1905. However, it's interesting reading about him because he similar to the one you speak of -- a rogue, married outside his faith, etc. He moved to Kansas where settled the town of Yoder, Kansas. There were splits and fractures within the different Amish groups.

Go down about 1/4th of the page in this link below until you get to the section entitled "Places Named Yoder Series" you can read all about him.

www.yodernewsletter.org

(last part continued below)

Buffalo Bob

(continued from #279 above)

With all the links this took longer than I thought! But at least you have some links which might help.

You wrote -

I'll pose a riddle for you since you are into geneology. My mother was born a Carpenter--My father was born a Stanley---but my last name is neither Carpenter or Stanley--and I didn't change my last name and I wasn't adopted. How did this happen?

I'm not sure how that came about in genealogy terms. But, in reading one of those "Yoder Newsletters" someone wrote the following about another Yoder (I have no idea which Yoder family this was):

I am a granddaughter of Eli S. Yoder and Esther (Brenneman) Yoder. My father was Lyle E. Yoder. Just this spring we found the grave of my great grandmother Miriam Eash who died at the age of 26.,. Eli S. was raised by another family which was a common story during that time. . Miriam was married to Samuel D. Yoder. The cemetery has all but been abandoned so we were excited to find the grave." from Phyllis Yoder Litwiller of Washington IA...

My take on having a different surname is this --

There seemed to be quite a few instances of wives dying young (probably worked to death back in those days giving birth to so many children and no household appliances to help with all the chores) so the men often remarried -- sometimes 3 and 4 times.

When the widower remarried many times his new wife was a widow herself who already had children of her own. So with the new wife's children added to the children of the widower she married now all living together in one house, the place became so filled with kids a family oftentimes had to have some of the children raised by other families. I don't know, but I'm guessing if a child was sent to another family to be raised that child might take the surname of the family now raising him or her? Does that sound plausible to you?

Another website which may be of interest since you said you and your family were never Amish --
Yoder Lineage Other Than Amish

And for information as to the marriage of Eli Yoder's mother with the surname "Hite" you'll have your work cut out for you without the father's name, etc. But try this website which will help you with records.

Vital Records - Historical Society of Pennsylvania

Glad you decided to look up the Wheelers if you get the chance. Or at least try and contact them via the internet. You might end up with a wealth of info on your family's history. Genealogy can be interesting, can't it?

Take care.

probably worked to death....
no household appliances to help with all the chores

Damn Chris,what kind of shit hole have you been working on,lol

"probably worked to death....
no household appliances to help with all the chores"

Damn Chris,what kind of shit hole have you been working on,lol

#281 | Posted by bruceaz at 2009-11-26 02:58 AM

That sure wasn't my house I was talking about, Bruce. That was just a history lesson of the living conditions of some Amish women in the 1800's I was describing for BuffaloBob. lol

"probably worked to death....

Just concerned,CC.You been working on that place for quite awhile

Takes a lot longer, Bruce, when there's no one to help you -- especially with the heavier things to move and repair. But it's coming along okay. I'm doing the best I can under the circumstances.

no,you've been doing well,hang in there,just playing,best of luck.

Psalm 109:8 reads "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." If you read Psalm 109:9 it says "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow." While I did not vote for Obama and do not like his policies, he is our president
and I do not wish him any ill will.

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