So we get to see if there is a public plan, and how the CBO scored the Bill, and how it is paid for.

Should be interesting.

Maybe they've added free child labor or the rescission of anti-slavery legislation in overseas business or legalizing the rape of contractors to try to win GNOP votes, ya think?

"Maybe they've added free child labor or the rescission of anti-slavery legislation in overseas business or legalizing the rape of contractors to try to win GNOP votes, ya think?"

You know those amendments are already in there, and that the GOP still votes No.

Figures.

AP Poll: Public favors gov't health plan

This is the 14th unveiling.

The first Bill for the whole Senate.

Report is $849 billion investment over 10 years, (less than the Iraq War, and paid for), covers 96 per cent of Americans, AND has a robust public plan with a state opt out.

Let's see how it's paid for...

am I going to jail or going to be fined if I don't comply?

Signed,

The poor in American that can't afford another bill.

I already hate it, and I don't even know what's in there. If that douchebag Reid put it together, it's a turd.

News at 11.

there will be no turning back if this passes. What will the Dems want to provide next? cars, houses, utilities, day care? they already do to a certain extent

this is one big step closer to socialism and loss of freedom...............more government is NOT the answer

Little if any "REFORM" in this squealing pig of a bill. Every medical special interest group in the country is going to get their piece of the pie out of this bill. Fake therapy-Great! Deep tissue massage-Great! Hypnosis-Great! Candle therapy-great!

True reform would be too risky for the corrupt politicians. "WELL WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO PISS OFF THE GREEDY GEEZERS OR THE AMBULANCE CHASERS".

Another nail in this countries coffin. The national debt will be 15 Trillion by the time the Husseinmiester is reelected for a life term.

And... other breaking news. The feds have recomended that women under 50 don't need mamograms or self breast exams. First, people in the service should buy their own healthcare and old vets should concider suicide. WOW!!!!!!!!

"estimated to extend coverage to 94 percent"

Who the hell are the 6%?

Robust Public option with a State opt out. Sounds good to me. Should be GREAT for America. This may be shaping into a historic victory for President Obama. Hopefully the rightwingers won't overdose on hate & vitriol over the next few weeks.

Actually, hopefully they do overdose. Then we won't have listen to them anymore.

Saves lives.
Saves money.
Strengthens Medicare.

No GOPper's going to like that.

I'd say they'll be screaming "socialism" and "government takeover" but they beat me to it already.

BTW, can anyone that's screaming "government takeover" tell me what percentage of health care is now government and what percent that will be when this gets passed? You must know, you folks on the right keep screaming about it.

Now I know what Big Sis was warning us about...

...once the average American realizes his medical insurance really isn't...

...there really will be domestic terrorists everywhere.

Sure hope our elected officials are comfortable wearing bullet proof vests...

...because that's exactly what they are going to need when the wide-spread outrage boils over.

Who are those folks, Bendor? Are you one of them?

#8 WisW

So now when, God forbid, you become deathly ill and spend more than is allowed by your plan, you won't have the plug pulled.... wait, perhaps I should reconsider this whole thing....

1/7th of the GNP in the hands of the same people (The Federal Government) that just payed off the bankers with our children's future earnings? And this makes sense, because this time they won't fuck us?

Got it!

Yes, that widespread outrage at not being turned down for insurance because of a preexisting condition is going to be awesome!

Pathetic twit.

that widespread outrage at not being turned down for insurance because of a preexisting condition is going to be awesome

Nothing pisses me off like not being denied medical coverage.

And all the "domestic terrorists" that surface because they won't have to pay for the ER costs of all the poor should be really cool, too!!

Also, Medicare is stabilized by having millions of more paying customers, something even ultra Neocon David Frum said he couldn't understand why righties would want to get in the way if Dems wanted to try to solve a long term problem that none of them really want to touch.

#21 OK I laughed out loud.

Ladies and gentleman,

I present to you, your Obama voter....

#20 Corky

"Yes, that widespread outrage at not being turned down for insurance because of a preexisting condition is going to be awesome!"

"Pathetic twit."

There'll be Tea Party civil revolts aimed at this Bill diminishing the deficit by 127 billion dollars and actually paying for the Bill in the Budget, instead of putting the cost on our children, as the GOP Bushies did with 2 tax cuts for the wealthy and the entire Iraq War.

#24 Did you have something to say, Dildo? Or are you just polishing your knob?

It might help the cost if we discontinued spending one million dollars a year for every one of our troops in Afghanistan.

And consider the public backlash over saving a half trillion taxpayers dollars in cost cutting measurements.

Yeah! Teabaggers Revolt!!

The problem for rightwingers really isn't the Bill itself. Rather, it is the fact that the passage of this Bill will reflect very favorably on President Obama's leadership. That is what drives them crazy.

The problem for rightwingers really isn't the Bill itself. Rather, it is the fact that the passage of this Bill will reflect very favorably on President Obama's leadership. That is what drives them crazy.

#29 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-18 07:46 PM | Reply |

Not only, but if it actually works, and improves the lives of people in this country. Forget all about winning any office of power come election time. The GOP will be sidelined for 8 long years, and have to fight wolves uphill bothways to even have a shot at the end of the term. And this all comes at a time, when the party is terribly fractured.

The crazies are running the show, and they don't give much of a shit for all the non-crazies. Good luck on that coalition.

"
1/7th of the GNP in the hands of the same people (The Federal Government) that just payed off the bankers with our children's future earnings? And this makes sense, because this time they won't fuck us?

Got it!"

Most of the money will still flow through the same hands of the same people who have been fucking us for years so don't get to excited. This bill will just require they stop fucking us in a few of the more uncomfortable positions. And it will help us to pay them a little less for the privelege.

The government was a big part of the problem we're in and now they're going to apply the "coup de grace"--- the American people are being snowed again--- THIS IS NOT HEALTHCARE REFORM-- this is masquerading for a huge tax increase.

"THIS IS NOT HEALTHCARE REFORM"

Hasn't read bill, does not know what is in bill, knee jerk partisan reaction.

#33 | Posted by danni

And you do?????

Danni have YOU read it???? Or are you just calling the kettle black?

And you do?????

She's not the one making the claim. Matsop is, just like Bendor, Dirk, Maverick. Maybe you can answer my question in #15?

If neither or you have read it, you're not in a great position to be declaring any reaction uninformed.

Sorry, neither "of" you

And no, the answer to #15 doesn't spring to mind. Care to educate me?

Care to educate me?

No need. You proved my point.

He may unveil it, but we still don't get to look it over line by line, debate it, denounce it and try to defeat a b.s. plan meant to enslave us to the state. This Harry Reid is just another politician who has become very wealthy while in the Senate, is an enemy of the people,and destructive to our lives, our liberty, our property and our pursuit of happiness.

I think I'll buy some property in Nevada and vote there just so I can help get rid of this piece of s---! I encourage all conservatives to send money to his Republican opponents.

CBO---- $849 billion over 10 years

CBO---- $849 billion over 10 years

Paid for and a net decrease in the deficit of 127B. Unlike the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, Medicare Part D.

How is it paid for if there is a running deficit?
A deficit means we are borrowing to pay for it.

You proved my point.
#39 | Posted by YAV
------

If you say so, but the answer to that question has nothing to do with my previous posts. So whatever point you think you've proven is entirely in your own mind.

Paid for and a net decrease in the deficit of 127B.

#43 | Posted by YAV

127B--- the second 10 years.

I would doubt medicare would be cut by 400B and therefore the deficit will be even higher---there's no way that it can sustained without huge tax increases.

I will repeat, this is a scam--- taxes are upfront, the "benefits" don't happen until after 2013 after taxes have been collected for the years before. This is not healthcare reform; it's a tax plan and Danni, you'll understand that once you read it.

Most of the money will still flow through the same hands of the same people who have been fucking us for years so don't get to excited. This bill will just require they stop fucking us in a few of the more uncomfortable positions. And it will help us to pay them a little less for the privilege.

#31 | Posted by danni

Correct as usual.

But the public plan is a start to real cost control, real competition, and reforming those worst abuses is worthwhile.

What I think is the funniest part is that it used to be the libs that were considered the pants-pissers.... after hearing the wingnuts on health care reform and the 911 trial they are definitely the new champs.

If this Bill passes with a real public plan, it's worth the opt out clause. We'll likely gain Governors that way.

The DR libbies' faith in their Congressional masters is cute, isn't it? More than 1,200 pages, they don't have the first idea as to what's in it, but they just assume it's not going to cost them anything.

Everything is puppy dog tails and unicorns.

Paid for and a net decrease in the deficit of 127B. Unlike the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, Medicare Part D.

Paid for with what?

We're running deficits now. What the hell are they going to use to pay for this?

I've said it before and it's worth repeating.

I'm all for offering up affordable, fair coverage to every American citizen with the same high level of service available to everyone, no matter their income bracket. I'm all for allowing people to opt out of that system, but I don't think they should be penalized for it.

But be detailed in how you're going to pay for it.

You guys are so blinded by the light at the end of the tunnel, you can't see that the Hope Train could flatten you.

You guys are so blinded by the light at the end of the tunnel, you can't see that the Hope Train could flatten you.

Aren't you supposed to go toward the light, though? Or is that bad? I can't remember.

The DR libbies' faith in their Congressional masters is cute, isn't it?

Its no more or less surprising than DR conservatives who fawned over the gang rape of our civil liberties known as the "Patriot" act.

More than 1,200 pages, they don't have the first idea as to what's in it, but they just assume it's not going to cost them anything.

Who writes this shit? Honestly? Who writes 1200 pages of healthcare "reform"? It sure as hell is not anyone who is involved in healthcare - at least on the provider's side. That's funny, you would think that doctors would be the first people you would talk to if you wanted to reform the healthcare system in the US. Nah... that makes too much sense.

Healy: Stay away from the light!

Mary: Um, OK
(puts the Bud Lite back in the fridge)

I heard on the news on the way in this morning that Reid bumped into the podium and bruised his vagina when he stepped up to unveil the bill. Get well soon, Harry, I didn't see bruised vaginas covered in Nancy's version of the bill. Most likely because that doesn't affect her.

But the public plan is a start to real cost control, real competition, and reforming those worst abuses is worthwhile.
---------

Cost control??? How? Health care is the only market in the country where competition actually raises costs. We need to CHANGE the system. Not tack on more insurance providers, so that they all lose market share and bargaining power with hospitals and therefore have to charge more.

If you think this plan will control costs. Start listening to NPR: Planet Money, and Bill Moyers Journal. Public radio and TV have done more to steer me away from this scam than any right wing looney could ever hope to do. Because I know they're not in it for anything other than the truth. They're certainly not in it for the money.

If you're listening to Bill Moyers, you have to have serious reservations about the efficacy of this legislation. And for the most part not for any of the reasons folks on the right are complaining about.

this bill is plain and simple,
1. huge tax increase
2. wealth redistribution
3. since when has the government ever accomplished something for the amount of money it says it can, honestly?
4. Who wants the government telling you what you can and cannot have for tests (already starting with the mammograms guidelines)

Does health care need reformed? YES. why not let people buy insurance across state lines? that isn't in there. what about limits on lawsuits (although I'm not sure how that works constitutionally). Seems to me the simplest ideas are not considered or are not politically prudent if one wants to keep the money coming in.

I say get rid of them all!

Aren't you supposed to go toward the light, though? Or is that bad? I can't remember.

Bad thing.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be here to give the usual canned response for when someone asks how the government intends to pay for any one of the various new programs.

I say get rid of them all!

#58 | Posted by 48VAC

Agreed.

BTW, Case tractor fan?

Dean of Harvard Medical gives health reform an F. Here is the link

How could you tell? Its my lawnmower

DO NOT IGNORE the things that they wont tell you

"DRS FIX" will add another 200 billion to this even though these goddamn democrats dont have it in the bill scored by the gbo.

medicaid is paid by the states and there is apparently no funding in this shit for that. only govt mandates

it calls for ten years of TAXES and only 7 years of service is the way I heard it this morning. what exactly does that mean?

AND other taxes such as a 5% tax on elective cosmetic surgery......
there goes your botox treatments CORKY.....

ALSO said to be in section 6601

prohibition of false statement something or other. is this something like another PRISON term and fine for freedom of speech?

and SIXTEEN MILLION people still not covered

as well as the most frightening sight of all
a podium with reid and durbin and dodd and fuckin franken and schumer and all smiling
that tells us one thing for sure
we are all about to get fucked and fucked hard

Funny, last night ABC news had a whole thing on women cancelling cancer Sx because of these new guidelines that had to do with mammograms and not cancer treatments...

It will be interesting what benefit design the publick option will consist of (as that will be the only design available through an exchange as "approved" plans)...

Could be:
1. A medicare prototype where there are no OOP maximums (ergo secondary insurance becomes necessary)
2. A medicaid zero patient liability design that fosters overutilization and drastic cost increases
3. Typical PPO design that most of us already have that does absolutely nothing to control CARE cost
4. HSA type plans that have been shown since 2003 to reduce CARE costs, especially when coupled with an MSA with seed money that belongs to the individual....

Any guesses?

There is one aspect of all legislation that has been proposed that will save insurance costs but not care costs... The "exchange". By cutting out the ever popular insurance "agent" and "agencies", that is one administrative fee that your friendly neighborhood ins. co. will be happy to shed.

It might mean a couple hunded thousand unemployed, but fork them, I want to save that few percent on my ins. policy!

I wonder if any public option will be fully underwritten and people charged what the plans should cost, or will it be like Medicare and they will be charged only what cannot be sucked from taxpayers?

** should be tens of thousands - exchanges only affect individual and small markets for the first several years within enactment of legislation.

"It might mean a couple hunded thousand unemployed, but fork them, I want to save that few percent on my ins. policy!"

Oh, I guess they will find out what people in other industries have felt like when they lost their jobs because of outsourcing. Have to wonder how many jobs have been lost because of health care insurance costs. I know one reason I closed my business was exactly that, I needed to go work for a company that provided insurance for my kids and me. Would have loved to have kept the business but because individual policies were so expensive I couldn't afford it. This reform will help thousands, if not millions of entrepreneurs.

You optimism is commendable, Danni.

This is a great start to the 'hope and change we can believe in'. The hope is in 'I hope I can keep my job when my employer has to cut employees in order to cover the cost of this change.' If that happens I will believe.

This reform will help thousands, if not millions of entrepreneurs.

Like the other government programs have help entrepreneurs...yawn.

,i>How could you tell? Its my lawnmower

#62 | Posted by 48VAC

I've got one for parts, if you need anything.

"Like the other government programs have help entrepreneurs...yawn."

Things like courts, police, roads, post office, schools, Social Security, Small Business Administration, Farm Bureaus, etc....it would be nearly impossible to run a small business if there were no government. Making health insurance affordable to people who don't want to work for large companies that can provide it will definitely help small business.