"All the day sit and spin"

Gordon Lightfoot

I ain't got a penny for Chocolate Carter to spend.

Oops.

Wrong song.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the punk little Commie holds power?

Does the Horseshit in my Speeches

Still put Peron to Shame

And by the Way...

Did They Mention My Grades?

I'm disappointed in the lack of spin from our resident Obamaphiles.

I'm disappointed in the lack of spin from our resident Obamaphiles.

"#8 | Posted by JOE"

Didn't you enjoy Pinochet's drunken "contributions" to the thread?

It was rather nice.

I'm disappointed in the lack of spin from our resident Obamaphiles.
.......#8 | Posted by JOE

.....so Joe......

....you are complaining because.... "More than 75,000 (or ten percent) of the jobs the Obama administration has claimed were "created or saved" by the $787 billion stimulus package are doubtful or imaginary"....

.....which means that the program DELIVERED THE GOODS 90% OF THE TIME........

......that sounds pretty good to me, batting 900 on job creation......

.......I know no matter what this administration does, you will look at the short end of the stick and bitch and cry , but the numbers you're crying about actually reflect well on the administration.......

the program DELIVERED THE GOODS 90% OF THE TIME........

Where you gathered that from is a mystery. It means that 75,000 of the jobs they claimed to have created or saved was a lie.

......that sounds pretty good to me, batting 900 on job creation......
* * * *

Wow. Well, I'm sure that will come as a great relief to the 500,000 people who lost their jobs last week.

LMAO. It's funny to see you libbies try to defend this POS.

Wow. Well, I'm sure that will come as a great relief to the 500,000 people who lost their jobs last week.

LMAO. It's funny to see you libbies try to defend this POS.

#11 | Posted by rightisright

And what is your answer besides crying and throwing a tantrum like a 5 year old? Y'all are the same damn thing, whine and cry with no ideas. STFU and lock yourself in a hole.

Joe is an atty he knows lying very well.

Where you gathered that from is a mystery.
.......#10 | Posted by JOE

......your numbers Joe........

....if 10% did NOT work out....then 90% DID WORK OUT.......

Who's a five year old? You're the ones who don't mind being lied to. If Obama wants to create jobs, he can cut taxes on businesses. He can allow them to expense R&D. He can allow them to create apprenticeships for teenagers and pay them below the minimum wage, and do something about the 30% unemployment rate there. He can stop sending trillions of dollars to Wall Street, and instead keep the money in small businesses. How's that for ideas? What are yours?

But no. Greeneyed guy is fine with Goldman Sachs giving Obama more than the Chamber of Commerce gave to Republicans, and so Goldman and Citi have to be paid. Hope and change!

....if 10% did NOT work out....then 90% DID WORK OUT.......

"Work out" is such a vague and inapplicable term to this situation. If I played baseball and said we had 10 runs but we actually only had 8, that wouldn't mean that 80% of our hits "worked out" or were home runs. It would mean that I lied about 2 of my runs. And that's all it would mean. It would say nothing about the actual performance of my team (who could have been beaten 9 to 8).

16 | Posted by JOE

.......you can't be that stupid Joe........

....if I accept your numbers, and you say that 10% of the total promised jobs were NOT created, then you are also saying that 90% WERE CREATED.......

""Work out" is such a vague and inapplicable term to this situation. If I played baseball and said we had 10 runs but we actually only had 8, that wouldn't mean that 80% of our hits "worked out" or were home runs. It would mean that I lied about 2 of my runs. And that's all it would mean. It would say nothing about the actual performance of my team (who could have been beaten 9 to 8)."

But then, your 10% is fuzzy, too.

What a bizarre argument.

Oh, btw, I think the stimulus package SUCKS, and the bailouts suck more.

-you can't be that stupid Joe

Wanna bet?

He can allow them to create apprenticeships for teenagers and pay them below the minimum wage

Surprised you didn't lead with "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

RiR is cheerleading the wealth inequity gap again.

Sooprise, sooprise, sooprise!

Be Well.

If Obama wants to create jobs, he can cut taxes on businesses.
#15 | Posted by rightisright

....that only increases the deficit, does not necessarily create any jobs at all........

......Bush tried that and ran the deficit wild....

I liked about the one where jobs were saved or created in a district that doesn't exist.

......AND it ended with the biggest losses of American jobs since the Great Depression.......

Addendum to myself:

But I can't imagine what anyone could have done that would have been better. I certainly can't imagine McCain and Palin pulling off some better solution, especially given that McCain's best contribution to the discussion appeared to be "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" (and I give him credit for meaning that Americans work hard, want to succeed, and have drive and innovation).

You know what? By the time we got to this point, we were fucked anyway.

The question shouldn't be "Who lied and how much?" It should be, "What do we do now?" ("Get rid of Obama" isn't an answer, any more than "Get rid of Bush" was an answer to the "What do we do about Iraq?" question back when Mr. Bush was president.)

I've always felt the Bush administation and Republican Congress drove the country off a cliff, then, when they lost in 2008, became a bunch of backseat drivers who turned to Obama and the Dems and said, "Okay, you drive."

you say that 10% of the total promised jobs were NOT created, then you are also saying that 90% WERE CREATED

If you read the article, the numbers are closer to 20% not created.

But, yes, that means that 80% of the meaningless number the Obama administration threw out there constituted created or saved jobs. Is that a good thing? That only 1 out of the 5 jobs you touted were lies?

Skizziks is coming out in full on support for Obama's admin telling lies. That's the only conclusion I can reach from all his twisting and parsing.

......AND it ended with the biggest losses of American jobs since the Great Depression.......

#24 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-17 10:48 AM |

At a cost of how many hundreds of thousands per job created or saved? According to you the 750 thousand jobs created or saved was out of the $787 billion stimulus, even if only half that was spent... $344 billion for 750,000 jobs????? Over 400k per job and you call that a plus for this administration????

$344 billion for 750,000 jobs?????

Sad display on my part... Should be $393 billion...

He can allow them to create apprenticeships for teenagers and pay them below the minimum wage

Surprised you didn't lead with "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

RiR is cheerleading the wealth inequity gap again.

Sooprise, sooprise, sooprise!

Be Well.

#20 | Posted by dethspud
* * * *

I'd rather have a job at $5 an hour, than not have one at minimum wage. Especially if I'm 16 years old, and I'm looking to get experience.

But in your world, it's better to have 50% black teenage unemployment. Maybe you're racist--is that it? You don't mind blacks out of work because they can't travel to where the higher-paying white jobs are?

You're so stupid it's funny. Please don't go away.

I've always felt the Bush administation and Republican Congress drove the country off a cliff, then, when they lost in 2008, became a bunch of backseat drivers who turned to Obama and the Dems and said, "Okay, you drive."

#26 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
* * * *

The lost in 2006, just before the spending orgies of Bush and the Democratic Congress really hit full throttle.

No, your stupid metaphor is more like a bunch of drunk teenagers out on a binge, slamming daddy's car into a tree, then trying to blame someone else. It's no coincidence that Bush had the Democrats pass his big Wall Street bailouts. I'll bet you still vote for them, though--don't you?

Skizziks is coming out in full on support for Obama's admin telling lies. That's the only conclusion I can reach from all his twisting and parsing.
......#28 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

......I'm supporting the fact that more good, than bad was accomplished.......the overall effect was positive.......it was Joe who said that 10% of the money failed to get a return, well the obvious corrollary is that 90% did get a return.......

.....Joe now turns around and argues with his own words, "well it was'nt really 10% it was more like 20%"......big deal.....the numbers show that the program was an overall success........

......the federal stimulus, and the bailouts, are also widely credited as putting the brakes on a nationwide economic collapse....the numbers are not good, but without the bailouts and stimulus, the numbers would have been much worse.....

I'd rather have a job at $5 an hour, than not have one at minimum wage. Especially if I'm 16 years old, and I'm looking to get experience.
......#31 | Posted by rightisright

.....why don't we just adopt the Mexican minimum wage right now, some of us seem so keen on reaching their standard of living.......

more good, than bad was accomplished

People like Ski pretend to be compassionate liberals, but they're not, really. If a business wants to hire an inner-city black kid for $5 an hour, he'll tell them that they can't. Gotta keep those white suburban kids happy, don't you know?

Racists. I wonder if you took a poll of black kids in Chicago or LA--would you be willing to work for $5.50 an hour, if allowed to do so?

Still--ski and spud know best. They're better off unemployed, rather than not. Gobama! Go libbies!

The lost in 2006, just before the spending orgies of Bush and the Democratic Congress really hit full throttle.

No, your stupid metaphor is more like a bunch of drunk teenagers out on a binge, slamming daddy's car into a tree, then trying to blame someone else. It's no coincidence that Bush had the Democrats pass his big Wall Street bailouts. I'll bet you still vote for them, though--don't you?

Yes, I know Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006. They lost it even more in 2008 when they also lost the White House. I feel the country went over the cliff before 2006. It's just that the ground below kept getting closer as the years went by. Instead of the big Wall Street bailout, which I considered the lesser of two evils, what would you have had the Bush administration and the Democratic Congress do?

Instead of the big Wall Street bailout, which I considered the lesser of two evils, what would you have had the Bush administration and the Democratic Congress do?

If the McCain/Palin campaign and Republicans in Congress had had a better plan, they might not have lost in 2006 and 2008.

If the McCain/Palin campaign and Republicans in Congress had had a better plan, they might not have lost in 2006 and 2008.

#38 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2009-11-17 11:38 AM

How has that democratic plan turned out since Jan 2007? I bet you are so proud of the leaderships of Reid and Pelosi, eh?

Is there any airbag big enough to soften the blow when a car that drives over the cliff hits the ground?

Not really. If that were true, then more jobs would have been created than lost.
35 | Posted by JOE

.....not necessarily.....

....the stimulus created some jobs, and kept others from being lost......

...here in Florida, they were ready to lay off about 50 thousand police, teachers, construction workers, etc....our state used stimulus funds to prevent that loss, in the end, it did not show up as a gain of anything, but if those 50 thousand state workers would have been out of work, there would have been another spin-off loss of 100 thousand in other areas.......lower property values, more foreclosures...lots more problems than we already have.....

.....so it did not prevent ALL job losses, did not cure the recession, but it certainly LESSENED THE IMPACT and lessened the unemployment.......

but in the end, the purpose of the stimulus was to prevent our economy from collapsing....and to a degree it did that.......things are not rosy yet by a longshot.....but we have been in a steady decline since the days of the Clinton surpluses....and it will take a huge effort to turn things around......

and the Republicans could be helping, instead, committed as they are to obstructionism, they are playing games with the future of this country.

Instead of the big Wall Street bailout, which I considered the lesser of two evils, what would you have had the Bush administration and the Democratic Congress do?

#37 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
* * * *

Let them fail, and take them over. Have the FDIC break up the bankrupt banks, and give the loan portfolios away to smaller, regional banks who actually knew a thing or two about banking, and didn't know much about derivatives trading.

it certainly LESSENED THE IMPACT

Yes, it did. And lying about how much it lessened the impact is wrong. Again - This is not an issue where "jobs created" is a "good" that balances out against "jobs lied about." Lying about the results of your legislation is bad, period.

Have the FDIC break up the bankrupt banks

I have a feeling that is going to happen either through a capitilization requirement or a punative tax once a bank hits a certain threshhold. I think Congress is waiting for the dust to settle before instituting anything.

but in the end, the purpose of the stimulus was to prevent our economy from collapsing..SKINJOB

Skizz, keep posting about how the stimulus is saving the economy. Having a bad day and need the humour.

Also - OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION IS OUT AND OUT LYING TO EVERYONE. But as usual, libtards scream the company line "nothing happening here, move along, move along."

QUIT BEING PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM AND START BEING PART OF THE SOLUTION SKIZZ. The dude is LYING, LYING AND YES LYING SOME MORE. You are either too stupid or too blind to see what he is doing. I think it is the former - just a guess.

Let them fail, and take them over. Have the FDIC break up the bankrupt banks, and give the loan portfolios away to smaller, regional banks who actually knew a thing or two about banking, and didn't know much about derivatives trading.

I've heard other people, not all of them wild-eyed conservatives, say we should have let them fail. How do you think taking them over would have gone "America is becoming socialist" crowd? Seriously asking.

Fact of the matter is, Obama could have done a lot with the $800 billion stimulus. Had the bulk of it gone into things like infrastructure spending--new airports, road construction, dam projects--you would have seen an immediate impact in manufacturing, heavy tools and equipment orders, and jobs. The construction sector, which has been absolutely annihilated with the collapse of housing and commercial building, would have recovered fairly quickly. And with it, municipal tax rolls would have surged, and we would have been spending deficit money on long-term assets, instead of feel-good spending.

But no. It went to shore up teachers', fire, and police jobs, which frankly did nothing except to the benefit of the teachers themselves. That's not nothing, but it's not a long-term benefit, and will require still more stimulus in the future.

Obama was just dumb, along with an even dumber Congress. For all his billing about being so clever and intelligent, the evidence is lacking.

and the Republicans could be helping, instead, committed as they are to obstructionism, they are playing games with the future of this country.

#42 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-17 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obstructionism of economic suicidal policies is a good thing skizz. If anyone is playing games, it would be your boy hussein - and those constituents in congressional district 99 in AZ. Whoops - there is no district 99 in AZ and yet hussein claims jobs were created there by the stimulus package?

I've heard other people, not all of them wild-eyed conservatives, say we should have let them fail. How do you think taking them over would have gone "America is becoming socialist" crowd? Seriously asking.

#47 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
* * * *

I don't mean "take them over", the way we did with AIG and Citigroup. When a bank fails, the examiners from the FDIC show up, usually after close of business Friday, takes over the books, makes some phone calls to other local banks in strong positions, and shuts down the problem bank. This happens a dozen or so times a year in good times, and a few hundred times during recessions. It's only recently that "too big to fail" banks have gotten the label that they're too important to have to go through that process. And funny enough, those banks tended to be the ones that contributed most to the Obama campaign, and to the New York Congressional delegation.

RIR,

Before the bailout or the stimulus package, I wanted someone to make a coherent argument for having them and not having them, because frankly I, like most Americans I suspect, don't know enough about economics to make a rational decision that wasn't based on fear, ideology or partisanship. I tried to listen and understand the pros and cons, but there were so many conflicting opinons it was hard to know who was right and who was wrong. Still is actually. I got the impression no one had a crystal ball and there were no guarantees whatever was done. I also got the impression in the end it came down to, "Take your best shot and pray."

IT'S A TRAVESTY
A TRAVESTY OF A MOCKERY
A MOCKERY OF A SHAM OF A MOCKERY
OF A TRAVESTY OF TWO MOCKERIES AND A SHAM
YOU DAMN DIRTY APES!
~Aflakabubble

I don't mean "take them over", the way we did with AIG and Citigroup. When a bank fails, the examiners from the FDIC show up, usually after close of business Friday, takes over the books, makes some phone calls to other local banks in strong positions, and shuts down the problem bank. This happens a dozen or so times a year in good times, and a few hundred times during recessions. It's only recently that "too big to fail" banks have gotten the label that they're too important to have to go through that process. And funny enough, those banks tended to be the ones that contributed most to the Obama campaign, and to the New York Congressional delegation.

Okay, I'm trying to follow you here, but wasn't it the Bush administration that came up with the bailout plan? I have to go shortly, but I'll be back later to read your post(s).

im serious doc

call the attendent and tell them you need another pill...

gal

check out the link from my post 51 from huffington post about gaithner..

when both dems and republicans tell us that this JOKE and tax cheat was the only man in the universe that could help here...that didnt seem right at the time and now we know more, IM sure its not right.
problem is...what can WE do?

I have to go shortly, but I'll be back later to read your post(s).

Taxman, you too. And anyone else who can shed light on the pros and cons of the bailout and stimulus. Bear in mind, the information will be easier to digest if a lot of partisan insults don't get mixed in with the facts. Thanks.

check out the link from my post 51 from huffington post about gaithner..

Okay, afkabl2, will do, later.

there is no district 99 in AZ and yet hussein claims jobs were created there by the stimulus package?

#49 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

.....I'm sure the president himself phones each county and decides how much goes where.......

.....please be realistic.......

in the VERY LEAST..it shows gross incompetence from the administration of the smartest sumbitch in the universe....

but I dont think it was a mistake...

it shows gross incompetence from the administration of the smartest sumbitch in the universe....
but I dont think it was a mistake...
.......#59 | Posted by afkabl2

......sure he makes mistakes, his administration makes mistakes......

.....but I think we are better off with him, than we would have been with the alternative.....

......he has a big mess to clean up, he inherited two wars and an economy in the toilet.......

QUIT BEING PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM AND START BEING PART OF THE SOLUTION SKIZZ. The dude is LYING, LYING AND YES LYING SOME MORE. You are either too stupid or too blind to see what he is doing. I think it is the former - just a guess.
.......#46 | Posted by elcidce90

.....you will complain about him no matter what he does.......

.....you have lost the ability to judge his actions fairly......

Jizziks-Shut the fuck up with all your stupid periods already.

.....I'm sure the president himself phones each county and decides how much goes where.......

.....please be realistic.......

#58 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-17 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

There were dozens and dozens of threads blaming bush for everything under the sun on the DR when he was pres.

Sorry skizz, his watch, his problem, his LIE!

Shut the fuck up with all your stupid periods already.
#62 | Posted by JOE | Flag: Wonders Why She Left

Look,

I have been horribly disappointed with Obama on his pledges toward transparancy, unity, a new tone in Washington, bi-partisanship, and so forth.

But 75,000 lies.

No way.

Nuh uh.

Nada.

Not possible.

I guaruntee that probably 75% of these 'lies' fit BBob's definition of a 'lie'.

They are counting each bogus job claim as a lie, jeff. One lie, lots of jobs.

Goat,

The jobs' thing IS bullshit and this president has proven to be mostly bullshit. But, 75K lies in less-than-a-year?

Lies?

Outright lies???

No way.

Jeff -- I agree with you and understand. What I was pointing out is that the headline says 75k lies becuase of the 75k jobs. One lie per job IOW. That is where that faulty number came from.

Fair enough, Goat.

I didn't read the article - only responded to the headline, which is obviously misleading.

...and lefties argue that no bias exists within the MSM...

......he has a big mess to clean up, he inherited two wars and an economy in the toilet.......

#60 | Posted by skizziks at 2009

sounds like BIDEN on stewart...

AND just like on stewart...
at the first sound of "inherited'

the remote goes "CLICK"

that song has been sung enough......I mean how many times can you listen to "we are the world" before you puke.

Jeff-

I wrote the headline. It was designed to irritate liberals. It worked.

I wrote the headline. It was designed to irritate liberals. It worked.

#71 | Posted by joe

Well mark up a great victory for Joey ZoomZoom. On the blog, that is, not a courtroom. That's a looooooong ways away, if ever.

MORE LIES FROM THE POTUS

stimulus.. FROM the gov website on tracking the money

arkansas...$1,000 paid for lawnmower. site says it saved 50 jobs....

MILLIONS to school district in ILlinois. site says it saved over 400 jobs..district list full faculty and staff at a little less than 300.

and remember when OBama said

It was JOE Biden who would look after this money and "No one messes with joe"...

and of course there is a reference to the 99th district of MARYANNE ISLANDS..

uh..what?????

I'd rather have a job at $5 an hour, than not have one at minimum wage. Especially if I'm 16 years old, and I'm looking to get experience.

But in your world, it's better to have 50% black teenage unemployment. Maybe you're racist--is that it? You don't mind blacks out of work because they can't travel to where the higher-paying white jobs are?

You're so stupid it's funny. Please don't go away.

#31 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-11-17 11:12 AM

Spud and company would also rather have oriental Suzy overseas performing yum yum on tourists rather than building sneekers for Nike.

They know what utopia should feel like. You can feel it in the words they type, no matter how far detached from reality they might be.

#36 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-11-17 11:34 AM

Spud and company will never understand that a dollar in Los Angelos isn't worth near what it is in East St. Louis.

We're all going to be equal, don't ya know.

I've been reading through this thread for a little while and it came to me....where or to what Federal Agency do the jobs that the Stimulus Plan cost get reported? I mean after all, there have been a hell of a lot of jobs lost if for no other reason than people with capital to invest simply are not going to invest in someone who had as a principal theme of his candidacy that he was going to cost them money. And what about those jobs that were lost because companies decided to invest big bucks in automation so as to escape the costs associated with whatever healthcare package finally comes out. And what about those jobs cost because some individuals have decided to just bow out of the system for a while. (This is hitting the medical industry particularly hard) Their staffs job losses are squarely on the shoulders of the current administration. Where do these jobs get reported?

I've always felt the Bush administation and Republican Congress drove the country off a cliff, then, when they lost in 2008, became a bunch of backseat drivers who turned to Obama and the Dems and said, "Okay, you drive."

Then, the Obama Adminstration added a trailer hitch to the car and an ocean to drown in at the bottom.

Neither party has the solution of -cut spending to need over want.