Count em, tag em, ship em.

The only thing the census should ask is how many people live in a particular house, period end of story. Of course, that means that states wih large illegal alien populations are rewarded with more federal money and representation congress, but the way to solve that is through immigration enforcement and not messing around with the census. The only constitutional purpose of the census is to coount people in order to apportion representatives, it doesn't matter what kind of people.

Maybe if illegal aliens felt that they were not being represented they will start obeying the laws of the land in a nation founded on the rule of law and apply for legal status?

What illegals? Just a bunch of non-citizen migrants...

{FacePalm}

No, don't count them.

We don't count tourists, do we?
We don't count slaves anymore, do we?

Follow the Constitution.

Strange thing.

I haven't gotten a census form and I've been living in this house for 3 years. Weird.

#5

ROTFLMAAO! FF!

Only ultra-rightwingers care about that moutmoded and outdated god damned piece of paper created by a bunch of white slave owning elitist men.

By cracky, not only count them but go ahead and get them to vote on absentee ballot while you are at the door.

-ObamAcorn

"By cracky,"

Obama is Australian? Gee, I thought he was Kenyan. I guess they talk similar to Australia in Kenya.

I sure hope they send census forms to every corporation.

They should be counted but not used in setting congressional districts.

Follow the Constitution.

#5 | Posted by danni

What dies the constitution say about illegals?

"What dies the constitution say about illegals"

163 U. S. 228 (1896)

"
Strange thing.

I haven't gotten a census form and I've been living in this house for 3 years. Weird."

Maybe that has something to do with the census being a once every 10 years event?

The purpose of the census is to count people for the purpose of apportioning representation. Since when are non-citizens qualified for representation?

According to the article:

"The Constitution requires that the "whole number of persons" be counted."

#1 | Posted by fishpaw - nah - I believe they fall under the "catch and release" law...

"163 U. S. 228"

Really only says that illegal aliens are entitled to the same rights as all other persons within the country, cannot be imprisoned without proper criminal procedure. Doesn't say anything about whether they can be charged, only that when charged for being in the country illegally, they must be afforded the same criminal rights as citizens. Then they can be imprisoned and subjected to hard labor. [the last was my addition]

Count non-citizens, it's important to know how many are here and where, but do not count them toward any re-apportionment of legislative seats or income redistribution (i.e. school or welfare dollars).

"David Vitter wants to change the rules so that only legal citizens are included in the official count"

Yes, because in wingding land counting members of a population should include excluding members of the population (dependant on their immigration status).

But of course, in the real world, it's important to know the projected demand placed on a principality, vs. who is and who isn't technically supposed to be there.

Just more evidence that many on the "right" have absolutely no intention of ever governing on the behalf of America (because a lack of services in any particular area hurts Americans --- not just illegal's)!

isnt david vitter the guy who uses whores? and we should pay attention to him ? why?

Counting non-citizens for the purpose of representation effectively waters down the representation granted citizens. Its a weakening of our voting rights. Pretty disgusting that partisan hacks - politicians and citizens alike - would forward arguements in defense of eroding the rights of citizens. We've had enough of that over the last few decades already.

the only people who erode the rights of citizens are the courts. vitter has no problem scrwing them, but he doesnt want to count them

I am with SpokaneJim.

We need to count them. But since they are illegal, it makes no sense that they should count toward legislative seats, welfare or any other funding.

Send them home to come back legally. Send their kids home too. If you are here illegally, it makes no sense to grant your kids citizenship.

"the only people who erode the rights of citizens are the courts."

And Congress forcing citizens to purchase health insurance, regardless of age or health, with penalties for non-compliance of high fines and imprisonment, is not an erosion of rights of citizens?

no it isnt

Counting non-citizens for the purpose of representation effectively waters down the representation granted citizens. Its a weakening of our voting rights. Pretty disgusting that partisan hacks - politicians and citizens alike - would forward arguements in defense of eroding the rights of citizens. We've had enough of that over the last few decades already.

#21 | Posted by Sully at 2009-11-16 01:37 PM

legal. illegal. just make sure they get healthcare.

a nation founded on the rule of law

Our nation was founded on rule of law?

I thought it was founded by revolutionaries who fought against an King and his laws such as the Stamp Act and the Riot Act.

legal. illegal. just make sure they get healthcare.

They already have access to health care in the ER, regardless of whether or not they can pay for it.

Did you have a point?

163 U. S. 228 (1896)

Where do I find that in the constitution? Seems to me that you have refered me to some obscure law that was written in 1896.

Obviously, the purpose of the census is to count EVERYONE. We, as a nation, have an interest in knowing how many people are here, and where they are located. Infrastructure construction and maintenance relies on such basic information. From transportation needs, to education needs, to housing needs, - we need to know how many of us there are.
As for representation based on population, fact of the matter is, regardless of whether they are here legally or otherwise, they have an impact on our society and need representation. This should be common sense to any person sans partisan agenda.

"The Constitution requires that the "whole number of persons" be counted."

#16 | Posted by danni

OK count them and then send them back home. If they are marked with a chip like a dog, they can be checked to se if they came back so they can be sent home again. They can't vote so they should not be included in the congresional district count.

"The Constitution requires that the "whole number of persons" be counted."
#16 | Posted by danni

OK count them and then send them back home

Nah, the job of the Census is just to count them.

Sending them back home, i.e. enforcing immigration and borders is not the job of Census, nor should it be.

They can't vote so they should not be included in the congresional district count.

People under 18 can't vote either. Should we count them? How about convicted felons?

just wanna point out that there's a world of difference between "non-citizen" and "illegal", not that many Americans can make the distinction.

The census should be apolitical, imo. It's just a tally of the people living within the borders. The info is useful for some agencies and industries, so what?

They already have access to health care in the ER, regardless of whether or not they can pay for it.

Did you have a point?

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-11-16 02:40 PM

well, there was the news story here of the German citizen who lived six months of the year (legally) in Florida where he drove a cab to pay expenses. He got held up, shot in the head, was brought to a "hospital" where they didn't even take the lead out of his head before kicking him out in the street. Reason? They didn't understand his international health insurance policy, which would have covered premium care, and were not interested in looking into it.

So, I can only guess what kind of "care" a migrant Mexican strawberry picker might get if he goes into the ER with sawed-off thumb.

Sniper, if you keep making sense you are going to piss them off and then the name calling will begin.

They should be counted but not used in setting congressional districts.

Finally sniper says something that is common sense.

Of course they should be counted. They live here don't they? The law doesn't make then a non person, only pubbies do that.

We need to know the number of illegals for two reasons:

1.----Making sure they are NOT counted for votes in congress.

2.----Focusing INS efforts on deportation.

They must and I do mean must be counted. If for no other reason than to make sure there is enough federal monies flowing to that State so the States don't come up short on funds.

Larry

They can't vote so they should not be included in the congresional district count.

They use the roads, parks, hospitals, airwaves, utilities, etc. just like everybody else. That's why congressional districts are created in the first place. If half the people in LA (for example) aren't counted, it screws everybody there. I guess that's too complicated for for most of the crackpots that think they shouldn't be counted in a congressional district.

Wow, larry you took the words right out of cyberspace before I could post. LOL

We need to know the number of illegals for two reasons:

1.----Making sure they are NOT counted for votes in congress.

2.----Focusing INS efforts on deportation.

This is exactly why the members of the military are not allowed to be the commander in chief.

They can't see past their blinders.

Sending them back home, i.e. enforcing immigration and borders is not the job of Census, nor should it be.

#33 | Posted by snoofy

It is the job of the federal government.

While it sounds like a great idea to send 40 million people back to Mexico, it is not done for economic reasons. Why do you anti-immigrant people think Reagan wanted amnesty for the illegal aliens? So did Bush. Same reason all the following Presidents did nothing. Cheap labor and illegal-citizens don't get a guarantee of constitutional rights. Think of it like modern day slavery. They live in communal camps that are no better then slave camps. They get paid sub standard wages and work from sun up to sun down. Most can't read English very well so it's easy to get them to apply pesticides, work under crop sprayers and use dangerous ag machinery without safety considerations or paying workers comp insurance. It's a win win situation that defies the constitution. What's not to like from the viewpoint of a capitalist?

Besides, who has the money to pay for such a foolish plan anyway? We are paying for an illegal war instead.

They must and I do mean must be counted. If for no other reason than to make sure there is enough federal monies flowing to that State so the States don't come up short on funds.

Why should federal money be sent to states that harbor illegals?
Let the states who support them take care of them.
Oh yeah, California does just that to the tune of 300 million a year to fund illegals.
Obama socialism will make welfare states out of us all.

rwd

#45 | Posted by RingMaster

Anybody with common sense does not want to send 20 million illegals back to Mexico,they just want them to be above board.
Send the criminals back,there is no inherent right for anyone to come here and enjoy the freedoms legal citizens have without them coming above board.
Until then, get the fuck out.

rwd

The point is moot. They will be included. They will also discover they have been voting Democrat.

It's the ACORN way.

What about legal permanent residents? They always seem to be ignored in these debates.

They must and I do mean must be counted. If for no other reason than to make sure there is enough federal monies flowing to that State so the States don't come up short on funds.

#40 | Posted by LarryMohr

I am absolutely certain that the census was not established for the purpose of determining the amount of federal monies that needs to flow to the states.

i say no send them home

I am absolutely certain that the census was not established for the purpose of determining the amount of federal monies that needs to flow to the states.

#50 | Posted by Redman at 2009-11-16 11:27 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Anybody with common sense does not want to send 20 million illegals back to Mexico...

There is a lot more INS illegals then that. You are dreaming.

Some guy pulled a good one Sunday in the Twin Cities, MN. Funny!!!:

- Anti-Racists Steal the Show at White Supremacist "Tea Party Against Amnesty"

(Teabaggers punk'd by anti-racists who get them to cheer rant against European-American immigrants)

Or his chain gangs--Arpaio-lovers see nothing wrong with lines of poor men, many men of color, laboring in chains.

From the article
VIDEO: twincities.indymedia.org

I hate Arpaio's guts.
But the chain gangs are voulantary.County jail is boring,tent city is outside but the rest of the jails don't have windows,people want to get out and about.Also its equal opportunity,Weman have there own too,They get to dig graves for the paupers.

Anyway,little bits of disinformation ruin any good points to be made

Count em, tag em, ship em.

#1 | Posted by fishpaw

Riiiiight... Easy as shooting fish in a barrel, eh?

So often I read this outright stupidity, knowing that the author generally has not a frakkin' clue what the level of effort would be to do this.

So, enlighten us as to how you would round up and deporting somewhere on the order of 20 to 30 million people? And where do you plan on sending them all?

Awaiting your Grand Plan...

Obviously, the purpose of the census is to count EVERYONE. We, as a nation, have an interest in knowing how many people are here, and where they are located. Infrastructure construction and maintenance relies on such basic information. From transportation needs, to education needs, to housing needs, - we need to know how many of us there are.
As for representation based on population, fact of the matter is, regardless of whether they are here legally or otherwise, they have an impact on our society and need representation. This should be common sense to any person sans partisan agenda.

#31 | Posted by moder8

Don't you be presenting any rational, well thought-out arguments. I don't think that's allowed here.

OK count them and then send them back home.

#32 | Posted by Sniper

Another with a Grand Plan to solve all.

You gonna do a search of each and every dwelling across the US?

Warehouse them where when you catch them?

Feed them with what while you disposition them?

Transport them how?

Transport them to where?

While it sounds like a great idea to send 40 million people back to Mexico,

#45 | Posted by RingMaster

I kinda doubt that they are all from Mexico.

#58 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-11-17 09:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just be sure they are paying FICA taxes and FED income taxes. How many billions are not being collected?

2010 CENSUS
Population Measures Are Important for Federal Funding Allocations

#52 | Posted by LarryMohr

Instead of quoting from the 2010 GAO guidelines prepared by current administration to advance their agenda, why don't you try reading the actual law that currently applies. (Title 13, Chap. 5)

And if they can't produce Income Tax Returns, they should be exported.

From Your link Redman

(e)
(1) If
(A) in the administration of any program established by or under Federal law which provides benefits to State or local governments or to other recipients, eligibility for or the amount of such benefits would (without regard to this paragraph) be determined by taking into account data obtained in the most recent decennial census, and
(B) comparable data is obtained in a mid-decade census conducted after such decennial census,

Anybody with common sense does not want to send 20 million illegals back to Mexico,

#47 | Posted by rightwingdon

Speak for yourself ace. They all need to be sent home.

Larry - I understand where you're coming from. I just think that the census is being used for a lot of things for which it was not originally intended, which was determining representation in Congress.

what a stupid question

and what a stupid idea

well its not stupid if you are a democrat and want millions more 'automatic votes' from your slaves....and they dont give a fuck what color the skin of thier slaves is.

And I suppose that state and local governments have no need to know how many physical bodies there are in their jurisdictions in order to calculate their needs for police and fire protection, traffic control, etc. And you do know that it is not the responsibility of states or local governments to enforce the immigration laws (hint: they have no jurisdiction)

I love these wingers who say we can't pay for healthcare, but can't even begin to figure out how much money it would take to deport anywhere from 20-30 million (their numbers) people. And how would you like to pay for that Mr. Winger? "Read my lips. No new taxes."

Healthcare costs money but apparently wars and border enforcement are free!

Oh, I know...Privatize it! Surely we can make a profit for some Corporation by giving it tax dollars to do the job for us! Yeah, that's the ticket....

I dont recall reading about deporting the millions that are here.

but more raids and enforcement of laws concerning employers would do almost the same thing

NO JOBS
no reason to stay and many or most will 'deport' themsleves..

but DEMS dont want to do that and YES republicans who own or beholden to employers dont either for different reasons.

The only constitutional purpose of the census is to coount people in order to apportion representatives, it doesn't matter what kind of people.

#2 | Posted by member2586 at 2009

Yeah--but what if the non citizen population is the reason for the population going up in an area/district/state??

Why should there be another representative in the House when the non citizen people numbers went up versus the citizen numbers?

They are not permitted to vote.

If there was honesty that the census would leave these numbers out in determining the House Representatives--that would be one thing.

But honesty is not going to be the goal here in the 2010 census.

They should be counted but not used in setting congressional districts.

#11 | POSTED BY SNIPER AT 2009-11-16 01:07 PM | REPLY | FLAG Yes.

California has FIVE REPRESENTATIVES JUST FOR ILLEGALS???

call MIGRA! someone is not doing their job.

Why should there be another representative in the House when the non citizen people numbers went up versus the citizen numbers?

They are not permitted to vote.

Children are not permitted to vote. Do we count them?

How about fetuses? Do they count? And, more importantly, should they be counted?