.....the start of the conspiracy theories.......

....will till B Bob and Jeffndenmark get a hold of this.......

Congratulations skidmark. You constantly prove how brainless you are. Posting your brainless ad hominem BS within 9 minutes of posting. Are you a world-reknowned speed reader? I'm sure you made an astounding effort to objectively evaluate the claim.

Are you a world-reknowned speed reader?
....#2 | Posted by L_RContrarian

....only when compared to the present company......

I'm sure you made an astounding effort to objectively evaluate the claim.
.......#2 | Posted by L_RContrarian

.....I am a news junkie......so yes, I have read some available details.......

.....the shooting scene was mass carnage, and the first responders did not know who was who, so there was confusion as to the number of shooters, identity of shooter, number of victims, etc......

.....the confusion has now been straightened out, but the conspiracy kooks will now develop their own theories.......so go for it.......

.....and incidentally, an ad hominem attack is a response aimed at the bearer of unwelcome facts or news, I did not say anything derogatory about you, and nothing really terrible about Bob or Jeff, but I did point out that they like to engage in this sort of make-believe........

"By Jerry Mazza
Online Journal Associate Editor"

yawn.

#4 skidz-marked

the confusion has now been straightened out

Exactly which planet do you live on?

Sorry you don't like the author that doesn't suit you Danni. Boring? Try again.

Exactly which planet do you live on?
......#6 | Posted by L_RContrarian

......obviously not yours........

....say hello to everyone in the Bizarro Dimension ......thanks......

"You constantly prove how brainless you are. Posting your brainless ad hominem"
#2 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-11-13 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag: DOES NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF "AD HOMINEM" BUT REMINDS HIM OF "I'M A HOMO" SO IT PRODUCES TINGLING SENSATION.

#8 skizzoid
obviously not yours

Finally I can agree with you.

What is Van Jones saying?

Was this guy Illuminati or lizard people?

What a bunch of cowards. Too PC and fearful of what somebody else might think, no matter how much sense and how well thought out the author's opinion is. Who is going to stand out from the crowd and be a leader rather than dumb sheep?

Not you, wooly.

On Oswald, statistically you're a conspiracy theorist to believe the official story (I've heard it's around 90%). Yes, it's been 40 years, but doesn't that just proves the point? Was there that much evidence presented to sway people or were people "shamed" by others from really speaking their opinion?

In NYC, the numbers are similar on 9-11 issue.
Guaranteed, 911 won't be any different in much less than 40 years.

You've probably heard Mark Twain's quote:

In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot.

I'm sorry---I must have missed this---WHO conspired to create this shooting, and WHAT was the motivation?

Does the Hasan Case Have a Smelly Stench of Oswald and 9-11?

Short answer: No.

You're brilliant morris. A mental heavy-weight for sure.

You asked, I answered.

"Brevity is the soul of wit."

I hope all you cowards who knowingly remain silent are ready for your safety medication - - a sweeping disarmament and Domestic Terrorism Bill - - aka Patriot Act II.

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed and hence clamorous to be led to safety by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
H.L. Mencken

Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy, I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger. We'll see who wins. Sammy "The Bull" Gravano (whose testimony convicted John Gotti)

But when no risk is taken there is no freedom. It is thus that, in an industrial society, the plethora of laws made for our personal safety convert the land into a nursery, and policemen hired to protect us become selfserving busybodies. Alan Watts (1915-1973)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

Freedom is not a luxury that we can indulge in when at last we have security and prosperity and enlightenment; it is, rather, antecedent to all of these, for without it we can have neither security nor prosperity nor enlightenment.
Henry Steele Commager (1902-1998)

A personal note to the Founding Fathers: We're sorry. We blew it. You made it possible for us to live free and we blew it. We've given up nearly every personal liberty in the name of a false sense of security sold to the masses by the same type of maniacal government about which you warned us and against which you fought so bravely. We now have to ask permission to take a leak on an airline flight. We never deserved you.
Phil Murphy 7/4/02

There was some serious phuck ups by the FBI CIA and the military on Hasan.

Hasan gave so many red flags--he was a parade float.

They have taken up the pre 9/11 mentality and PC manure that lead to the murders of 14 and wounding 28 others. (I count the little one).

I see you believe that the gun control is the end result of this by Obama.

That just won't happen--not in this country.

What is the comparison between Oswald and Hasan? What conspiracy do people see here?

As the article points out, there are two angles:

-The long-time scrutiny by intelligence officials, yet the opportunity and means still produced the end result
-The single-shooter mandate when there is plenty of contradictory evidence

And none of this is even "conspiracy". It's observations of eye-witness testimonies.

"Brevity is the soul of wit."
...#20 | Posted by morris

.....so then would Contrarian's lack of brevity make him a witless soul ?.......

#25 schizo-id

You've already readily admitted to being from a different planet. The topic is way over your head. The balloon boy story is more your speed. The balloon was trying to reach toward your planet before the story came crashing back to earth, along with your hopes to returning back to Earth and reality.

I see you believe that the gun control is the end result of this by Obama.

That just won't happen--not in this country.

Murphy,

Clearly you are both very naive-- "won't happen in this country"-- and also miss what is available underneath your nose. Various forms of disarmament has be ongoing already under color of law, restriction and laws, requests for voluntary disarmament, cash reward campaigns:

Google for news:

-Knock and Talk.
-City Rewards Tips Illegal Guns (whether illegal or not, it doesn't matter to those responding to the calls)
-Police Sponsor Cash for Turning in Guns, no questions asked
-Numerous laws restricting or making much more difficult for gun ownership
-New CA law on fingerprinting for purchase of both guns and ammo

Murph, you really need to educate yourself and lose the naivety. All these listed steps don't even include the numerous pieces of legislation already in progress. One of the most well known is Eric Holder's draconian 'No Fly - No Buy'. Some have already began denying gun applications based on this.

What is wrong with this picture? Two headlines:

Blackwater Responsible for Bombings, Assassination in Pakistan (on arrival of Clinton)>

According to a report in the Urdu-language magazine Haftroza Al-Qalam, the recent killingsof Pakistani military officials represent an old method used by Blackwater in Iraq and South American countries.

The recent bomb explosions in Pakistan are of the same nature previously conducted by Blackwater in Iraq," the report quoted unidentified sources as saying.

The same people are involved in all the terror attacks, including the assassination of Benazir Bhutto and the explosions in Peshawar,'' the report added.

WashPost: Feds Propose Takeover of Subways, Light Rail>

The Obama administration will propose that the federal government take over safety regulation of the nation's subway and light-rail systems, responding to what it says is haphazard and ineffective oversight by state agencies.

Under the proposal, the U.S. Department of Transportation would do for transit what it does for airlines and Amtrak: set and enforce federal regulations to ensure that millions of passengers get to their destinations safely.

We could all basically agree there are three prevailing theories. First, left liberals and other supporters of the Obama regime argues that Major Hasan is a sincere and devout Muslim who was the victim of a tragic contradiction between his religious faith and the logic of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, both the heritage of the Bush-Cheney regime. Under this theory, Hasan must be a tormented individual who just snapped under the stress. Obama appears to embrace this theory stating "Even within the extraordinary military that we have and I think everybody understands how outstanding the young men and women in uniform are under the most severe stress there are going to be instances in which an individual cracks."

The second theory is one advocated by assorted neocons, reactionaries, Islamophobes and others who tend to be hostile toward Obama. This account maintains that Major Hasan was a homegrown, self-starting Islamic terrorist, trumpeting his devotion to jihad and suicide bombing, seeking to make contact with "Al Qaeda," and generally filled with hate for America, for freedom, and for his fellow soldiers. In this view, it is by political correctness and soft on terrorism Obama regime that prevented Major Hasan from being neutralized before he could act, and which prevents Obama and his allies from telling the truth after the fact.

These two views are at best superficial and naive. They amount to two prongs of a deliberate campaign of media hysteria and mass manipulation designed on the one hand to prod the dithering Wall Street puppet Obama who is having second thoughts about his own political survival into an early decision in favor of massive escalation of the war in Afghanistan. On the other hand, the delirium of Islamophobic hatred being ginned up against Major Hasan by the usual cast of reactionary radio ogres (Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Levin) seeks to accentuate and strengthen the racist and xenophobic elements in the militant anti-Obama opposition.

The recent government seizure of numerous US mosques and other buildings on the grounds that they are Iranian assets, also contribute to a growing mood of anti-Moslem hysteria. This atmosphere is accentuated by the reckless and irresponsible actions of some Moslem groups which happen to be foundation-funded, and must thus be considered as part of the apparatus of US domestic social control.

The media narrative which is now being consolidated a week after the shootings is full of contradictions, embarrassed silences, and absurdities.

A third and distinct approach to this case is therefore required, one which regards Major Hasan as a manipulated patsy in the context of a relatively sophisticated operation mounted by forces within the US intelligence community, using methods and assets which by now ought to have become familiar. Major Hasan can be seen as a mixture of Lee Harvey Oswald, legendary 9/11 "suicide pilot" Mohammed Atta, and Cho Seung-Hui (the alleged April 2007 Virginia Tech shooter). He also has elements of reputed Robert Kennedy assassin Sirhan Sirhan, and of John Hinckley Jr., who was involved in an attempt to kill President Reagan. He thus represents a new cocktail of patsy ingredients. Until now, Islamic terrorists had come in collectivist groups, and not alone. Major Hasan by contrast is a troubled loner in the tradition of Oswald, at the same time that he embodies the religious fanaticism of Atta, along with some of his peccadilloes. Major Hasan is that novelty, a troubled Islamic fundamentalist loner, even though this is something of a contradiction in terms. Like Cho, Major Hasan emerges from the psychiatric clinic, in his case as a practicing psychiatrist, but as a shrink with egregious symptoms of his own.
Hasan is revealed as a fanatic, a misfit, and a quasi-psychotic or psychotic mental case in his own right who could not subsist without protectors in high places of the US intelligence community.

Troops At First Thought It Was A Drill; Could Hasan Have Thought So As Well?: In investigations like this, it is generally a great mistake to fixate on the scapegoat dished up by the mass media. The more we focus on the Oswald of the day, the less we understand of what actually happened. Let us turn away from the TV pundits, and listen instead to the eyewitness testimony of the troops who were present at the shootings. Many of them are on record agreeing that the events of November 5 were initially interpreted by those on the scene as an exercise, as a drill. From ABC News we get the following testimony: Solider Keara Bono told "Good Morning America" today that she initially thought the scene of Hasan standing up, praising Allah and starting to fire was a drill. She didn't believe it was real even when she felt her own blood, she said. "Then I looked to my left and right and I saw people that were bleeding," she said. In the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel of 9 November 2009 we find: "Pfc. Amber Bahr of Random Lake [ Wisconsin ] heard someone yelling and ducked at the sound of gunfire, but she said she thought supervisors at Fort Hood were holding a drill last Thursday. She didn't know she was under live fire until she heard people screaming." This story was based on an interview given to NBC's Today show. (there are also similar accounts from other media outlets).

Based on this testimony, it seems clear that unannounced, surprise terror drills are standard operating procedure at Fort Hood and probably other military bases as well. They are frequent enough to be the first thing many soldiers, including at least one officer, thought was happening. Drills are designed to be as realistic as possible. But the acme of realism is reality real killing, which can occur through small but decisive changes in the unfolding of the drill. We may therefore be dealing here with a drill which has been taken live or flipped live, as so often happens in terror incidents.

This array of evidence allows us to pose the following question: If so many of the Army personnel on the scene thought at first that the incident was a drill, did Major Hasan also think he was attending a drill? Did he imagine that he was going to be an actor playing the assigned role of a member of the terrorist red team in a realistic exercise? In other words, was this inept, troubled and quasi-psychotic individual somehow under the impression that he was attending an officially sanctioned exercise of some routine type, until real bullets began to be fired by other more qualified shooters, thus taking the drill live? This might also help us to account for the extraordinary intensity of firing at the scene well over 100 rounds. For this working hypothesis to stand up, we would have to show that there were other gunmen firing gunmen who knew that the drill was turning into a real massacre. The additional shooters would according to the classification referred to above represent the technicians in this action the trained killers who have the ability to do the things that the patsy is accused of doing. Interestingly enough, extra gunmen are exactly what we find.

ONE SHOOTER, OR THREE?

How many shooters were there? Early reports indicated that there were at least one, and perhaps two, in addition to Major Hasan. Dow Jones newswires reported at about 5 PM Eastern Time: "A second gunman is in custody after a shooting at the Army's Fort Hood in Texas in which at least seven people were killed and 12 wounded, reports KCEN-TV of Waco. The report comes about two hours after a first suspect was captured, shortly after gunfire broke out." According to the Dow Jones report cited, shooting had occurred in two separate locations on the Fort Hood base: "The incident reportedly began at Fort Hood 's theater and then moved to the Soldier Readiness Processing Center , Killeen City Public Information Officer Hillary Shine told Fox News." According to an AP wire, these facts were also announced by an official Army spokesman at the base: "The spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Nathan Banks, says two shooters were apparently involved. There is no word yet on who they were, nor on identities of the dead. Banks says the second incident took place at a theater on the sprawling base." Many of the embarrassing reports about multiple shooters have been purged after the fact from websites, but a few have survived, as in the case of this Wisconsin radio station, where we read that the triple assassin theory had been embraced by the commander of the base: "Newsradio 620 WTMJ: Lt. General Bob Cone at Fort Hood confirms 12 dead, 31 hurt in shooting. Soldier gunman killed. 2 others in custody."[12] During the later afternoon, cable television talked of three shooters, and in the London Daily Mirror account we find: "Twelve people were killed and 31 wounded when three gunmen in uniform opened fire at the US Army's largest armoured base in Texas yesterday. One gunman was shot by civilian police and the two others held at Fort Hood ."

GEN. CONE BRINGS MAJOR HASAN BACK FROM THE DEAD AFTER 8 HOURS

It was only in the late evening that the official lone assassin version of these events was assembled in another press conference by General Cone held about eight hours after the shooting had started: " KILLEEN , Texas (KXAN/AP/MSNBC) Twelve died and another 31 were hurt in a mass shooting on Fort Hood that stunned the nation on Thursday. Accused gunman Major Malik Nidal Hasan is alive and in stable condition, Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said at a Thursday evening news conference just outside the storied military post the largest in the United States . Counter to initial reports, the 39-year-old psychiatrist who was thought to be killed by local police is hospitalized and not expected to die of multiple gunshots wounds sustained during the 1:30 p.m. attack. The local police officer who allegedly shot Hasan and injured him is in the hospital also in stable condition."

In the course of the day, we had thus gone from three shooters to only one. The separate shooting incident at the Howze theater on the post reported earlier had also been expunged in the process. Most remarkable of all was the ability of Major Hasan to come back from the dead after eight hours in which the world had been assured of his demise. Such resurrection is of course a physical impossibility for mere mortals. When individuals are alleged to have performed deeds which are physically impossible in the world as we know it, from Oswald's feats of shooting to Atta's (and Hani Hjanjour's) feats of flying, we must become suspicious that intelligence agencies are assisting the probable patsies in hidden ways. Major Hasan is said to have fired more than 100 rounds using the two pistols he is alleged to have carried. This seems like a lot of shooting for a single person surrounded by scores of trained combat veteran soldiers, even if these latter had not been carrying their usual weapons.

The categorical imperative for every patsy is to get noticed, and to call attention to himself or herself pointedly and repeatedly, by hook or by crook. They must stand out so much that they will be remembered by many ordinary people after the process of their demonization has been launched. In order to fulfill their function, patsies must leave a trail of clues and evidence which will tie themselves and the larger target group they supposedly represent to the heinous actions they will shortly be accused of having committed. Oswald handed out leaflets sympathetic to Cuba and told a television audience that he was a Marxist. He went to the USSR, and tried to go to Cuba. Atta cultivated a frightening stare, and took time to argue ostentatiously about a parking place at an airport in Maine while he allegedly thought he was on his way to death. Major Hasan seems to have some of the same strange proclivities. On the day of the shooting, Major Hasan made sure there was no doubt about his religious loyalties by donning a trademark "Islamic" white robe and skull cap to go to his local Seven-Eleven, where he was sure to be filmed by the security cameras there. This footage was then played on all the networks for the next 48 hours. This gesture recalls the Koran Atta left in his car at Boston 's Logan airport. When the FBI located Atta's rented car, they found a copy of the Koran, airline schedules, terrorist literature and videotapes, and Atta's crudely forged last will and testament in the luggage all obviously and crudely left behind to make the necessary point. Atta's will betrayed the amateurish attempt of some half-baked area specialist to sound Islamic.

At Fort Hood , Major Hasan told a colleague, Col Terry Lee, that he believed Muslims should rise up against American "aggressors." [15] Count de Borchgrave points out that Major Hasan had made at least one overtly ominous statement just before the shooting spree: As the Virginia-born major told a female neighbor in his apartment complex, "I'm going to do good work for God."[16] The neighbor would not forget that grim pledge anytime soon. Major Hasan was suspected of having authored internet postings that compared suicide bombers with soldiers who throw themselves on hand grenades to save others, although here we must be cautious, since these postings could have been made by imposters. All accounts agree that witnesses heard a shout of "Allahu Akbar" just before the firing started. Less clear is whether these words were spoken by Major Hasan. And if he did say them, was this a line from the scenario script of a drill?

YET ANOTHER DELIBERATE FBI SNAFU
Just as in the 9/11 instance, the scandalous failure to connect the dots and round up the patsies was due to the non-feasance and malfeasance of the FBI, the criminally negligent agency which, according to 9/11 commission co-chair Gov. Thomas Kean, "failed and failed and failed," but nevertheless escaped breakup after 9/11. Starting in 1996, the FBI had been aware that international terrorists were making a show of learning to fly passenger jets at U.S. flight schools, but took no action. According to a press report, the failure to inform Major Hasan's superiors was the direct and specific responsibility of the FBI: "The Pentagon said it was never notified by US intelligence agencies that they had intercepted e-mails between of the alleged Fort Hood shooter and an extremist imam until after last week's bloody assaults, raising new questions about whether the government could have helped prevent the attack. a person familiar with the matter said a Pentagon worker on the terrorism task force overseen by the Federal Bureau of Investigation was told about the intercepted e-mails several months ago. But members of the terror task forces aren't allowed to share such information with their agencies, unless they get permission from the FBI, which leads the task force. In this case, the Pentagon worker, an employee from the Defense Criminal Investigations Service,, helped make the assessment that Major Hasan wasn't a threat, and the FBI's procedures for sharing the information were never used,' said the person familiar with the matter." Those involved in this decision by FBI and the Defense Department need to be probed as possible terror moles. This is reminiscent of the FBI's Dave Frasca, who could not assemble and act on the pre-9/11intelligence he had on his desk. This was a new chapter of the story of FBI sabotage told by Colleen Rowley and documented at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in 2006. If the FBI had rounded up the 9/11 patsies, the operation could not have occurred not because the patsies were going to fly planes into buildings by themselves, but because the jailing of patsies before the fact would have made the targeting of the Moslem world impossible. In this sense, the same FBI rogue networks which made9/11 possible are still in place and still effectively sabotaging effective law enforcement.

MAJOR HASAN'S SECURITY CLEARANCE: SECRET

Major Hasan reportedly has a security clearance which allows him to receive secret information. All US Army officers are required to have at minimum a secret-level security clearance, and Major Hasan's clearance might even have been at the more stringent top secret level. All indications are that Major Hasan's clearance was never reviewed, despite his ostentatious antics. Major Hasan's aberrant behavior should at the very least have put him in line for a National Agency Check or NAC. Newsweek writes that extended NACs, which the officials indicated are more likely for would-be military officers, would include checks of local and state police records in jurisdictions where the subject lived, as well as credit-bureau and financial-record checks. In the event that some kind of "derogatory" information turns up during these checks, one of the officials said, field investigators are likely to be sent out to conduct interviews, and the procedure could also include an interview with the security-clearance applicant.' This puts Major Hasan in a very special category, subject to special rules and surveillance which are enforced by specific agencies, and not by military physicians of whatever rank. Perhaps the most direct evidence that Major Hasan was a protected patsy was the fact that he could make incendiary speeches and correspond with self-proclaimed "al Qaeda" firebrands without having his security clearance reviewed, to say nothing of lifted. "The contacting of a foreign Islamic militant who openly espouses killing of Americans is, in and of itself, is a violation of U.S. security regulations with respect to individuals with security clearances. Hasan's foreign contact should have been reported through the chain-of- command to his commander. Lt. Gen. Cone, in consultation with his G-2, Counter-Intelligence Staff Officer, Personnel Security Officer and the CID, could have immediately suspended Maj. Hasan's security clearance subject to a local AR 15-6 investigation. A minimally competent investigation would have uncovered other comments and actions that would probably have resulted in adverse command action on Maj. Hasan's security clearance and possibly led to charges being brought for conduct unbecoming an officer." But the usual rules were suspended for Majopr Hasan, indicating that he belonged to a special class of persons patsies who were being groomed for future actions and therefore had to be kept out of trouble.

Webster G. Tarpley
November 15, 2009

"All US Army officers are required to have at minimum a secret-level security clearance, and Major Hasan's clearance might even have been at the more stringent top secret level."

And since we don't know, let's jump to whatever conclusion best serves our particular talking points!

#38 dan

That's a fairly weak of a counter-argument.

'What don't we know?' No matter which security clearance it was, all of the analysis applies.

Where exactly is any jumping to conclusions?

"Where exactly is any jumping to conclusions?"

You're joking, right?

We don't fully know about Hasen, so it smells of 9/11 and Oswald?!?

That a textbook example of jumping to conclusions.

Danforth,

Sure, if you say so.
You clearly haven't read anything other than #36. Even 36 alone is answered sufficiently in #39 -- even if you choose to ignore the answer.

You might want to review the full post, the thread history before making a lame, simplified conclusion about which you clearly have not even reviewed before making.

"Even 36 alone is answered sufficiently in #39 "

WTF?

The simple claim you didn't jump to conclusions means you didn't jump to conclusions?!?

Amazing. I'll have to remember that trick.

"You might want to review the full post, the thread history before making a lame, simplified conclusion about which you clearly have not even reviewed before making."

I did. It's full of one suggestion after another followed to its completely illogical conclusion.

"might even have been"
"All indications are"
"are more likely"
"field investigators are likely to be sent out"

--all non-specific phrasing, and all turned to the worst possible interpretation.

ok danforth,

You go ahead and continue living in your delusional media controlled left or right superficial "answer".

These two views are at best superficial and naive. They amount to two prongs of a deliberate campaign of media hysteria and mass manipulation designed on the one hand to prod the dithering Wall Street puppet Obama who is having second thoughts about his own political survival into an early decision in favor of massive escalation of the war in Afghanistan. On the other hand, the delirium of Islamophobic hatred being ginned up against Major Hasan by the usual cast of reactionary radio ogres (Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Levin) seeks to accentuate and strengthen the racist and xenophobic elements in the militant anti-Obama opposition.

ff