President Obama is concerned with what all Presidents are concerned with - his legacy, even in his first year. He will not do something that he thinks will make him look like a complete moron, so I'll support whatever his decision is. It would be nice to know what the future mission will be (I'm slated to be there in 2012) and if it is something that I don't agree with it will mean I will just have to work harder to make the plan successful.

I think he will provide the 40K troops, but I don't know what to think of the stipulations of us staying will be.

The afghan government is not worth saving.

US should pull out and let's just make sure they are isolated.

Let karsai run for his life again.

"Present!"

Colin Powell To Obama On Afghanistan Troop Decision: "Take Your Time"

[In an ABC interview} former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Colin Powell revealed that he recently advised President Obama to take his time in devising his strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan....

"This is a very difficult one for him," Powell said. "And it isn't just a one-time decision. This is the decision that will have consequences for the better part of his administration. So Mr. President, don't get pushed by the left to do nothing; don't get pushed by the right to do everything. You take your time and you figure it out. You're the commander-in-chief and this is what you were elected for."

Powell said he had "advised him is to not be rushed into a decision because this one is the decision that will have consequences for years to come."

"If you decide to send more troops or that's what you feel it is necessary, make sure you have a good understanding of what those troops are going to be doing and some assurance that the additional troops will be successful," Powell says he told the president. "You can't guarantee success in a very complex theater like Afghanistan and increasingly with the Pakistan problem next door, but you have to have some sense of what these additional troops will be able to do.

Obama to War Room Generals:

"Didn't Russia invade Afghanistan? What happened with that? Can someone find out please and get back to me?"

I think the fear is that if the Taliban
once again takeover Afghanistan, then Pakistan will
be vulnerable to a Taliban takeover. The prospect
of a nuclear Pakistan in the hands of the Taliban
frightens both India and the West.

I think the fear is that if the Taliban
once again takeover Afghanistan, then Pakistan will
be vulnerable to a Taliban takeover. The prospect
of a nuclear Pakistan in the hands of the Taliban
frightens both India and the West.

Obama to War Room Generals:

"Give me an EXIT STRATEGY"....Generals: "Nobody ever asked us for one of those before"

#5 | Posted by AuntieSocial

.....just clearing up your muddle.....you're welcome......

President Obama is concerned with what all Presidents are concerned with - his legacy, even in his first year. He will not do something that he thinks will make him look like a complete moron...

It's a little late for that.

This reminds me of a story I heard about a guy working on a budget I think it was for a President who I want to say was Reagan.

The guy worked on the budget for weeks, brought it to the President and left it on his desk. The next day the President brought the guy in and asked, "Is this the best that you can do?"

The guy took the budget, went back to his desk and worked on it for a couple of more days. He brings it back to the President, leaves it on his desk, and again the next day the President asks, "Is this the best that you can do?" The guy slumbers back to his desk and for the next couple of days works on the budget some more, focusing on every last little bit of detail.

He takes the budget back to the President, sets it on the Presidents desk. The President picks it up, looks the guy in the eye and says, "Is this the best that you can do?" The guy says, "Yes Mr President, that is the very best that I can do. I went over it line for line, number for number and that is the very best that I can do."

The President says, "OK, I'll read this one then."

(I know the details aren't right, but you get the jist of it)

Does this not mirror Obama last year, and his Iraq decisions? Such as calling for the end to all training, missions, and basically security involving the Iraqi Security Forces? Obama also campaigned on the fact Bush did not have enough troops in Afghanistan. Implying the numbers needed were stuck in Iraq and gave the impression he would shift them to Afghanistan.

Since the strategies and troop levels from Dec.08 have been in place, and Obamas endorsement back in March, has he made any worthwhile decisions or adjustments? Almost eight months, multiple meetings with advisors, requests from those on the ground and so far, what? The situation is getting worse and Obama wants more time, more proposals, more excuses. Maybe he should have put more thought into his so callled security team, if he hasn't liked what they proposed.

So, someone mentioned last night that Eikenberry, McCrystal, Petraeus, and several others, all West Point Class of '73 , I think, are considered within the Army as a bit of a cabal that is often at odds with the Chiefs, and that Eikenberry, who commanded the last two years there and knows Karzai better than most, breaking ranks on Afghanistan with his pals is a sign of real trouble with the idea that Karzai can lead the country at all.

Glad to have a Pres that isn't the shoot first and worry about the troops later kind of guy.... like the last one was.

I do look forward to the Arm-Chair Generals discussion that is bound to follow.

Let's here from all the experts of fighting wars!!!

You know who you are.........

and again the next day the President asks, "Is this the best that you can do?" The guy slumbers back to his desk, next day, the President picks it up, looks the guy in the eye and says, "Is this the best that you can do?" ........#10 | Posted by Manypaths

....if this was Reagan , it could have gone on for years with his Alzheimer's.......

Many,

You'll be disappointed with me.

I personally find Obama's caution and deliberation refreshing after 7 years Of Bush flying by the seat of his pants.

Let's wait and see what happens regarding his running the show before lauding or lambasting him.

OK?

Let's wait and see what happens regarding his running the show before lauding or lambasting him.

#15 | Posted by JeffJ

After 10 months of his being in office, it seems like he is still voting 'present' on ALL issues. He has lead on NOTHING so far.

"I do look forward to the Arm-Chair Generals discussion that is bound to follow.

Let's here from all the experts of fighting wars!!!

You know who you are........."
#13 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-11-12 10:33 AM |

This isn't Iraq and the same experts here. Or Harry Reid saying the war is lost. Not yet at least. I thought he was being careful and waiting for the elections to play out?

This is another amateur hour brought to you by this administration. Hillary and company were embarrassed again recently when the State Dept asked Karsi's opponent not to denigrate the election or process when he opted out. So far this administration has alienated allies in the mid east and Europe, by being played by Iran and Russia. He gave in to a crackpot like Kim and sent over the most popular president in recent history and he ignored the Honduras situation...

Seems like his resume is playing out on foreign and military policy.

and so we now know the defintion of 'dithering'...

and Once again...obama
votes present.

IM just glad bush isnt president because if he was, this place would have about ten threads devoted to the left ripping him for not being able to make a decision..

and why should we listen to people here anyway...the retort track record on iraq is pretty dismal.

the retort track record on iraq is pretty dismal.

#18 | Posted by afkabl2

The retort is 3/4s libs and their track record on everything is dismal. They were right about Bush spending too much.

Welcome to France, the inventors of the white flag.

#16---"He has led on nothing yet."---This'll be the first real decision Obama will have to make-- you can duck a lot on the economy but in foreign affairs the buck more often then not stops in the W.H.

They were right about Bush spending too much.
......#19 | Posted by Sniper

.....we were also right on NOT supporting the Iraq war.....

no...you were wrong in declaring it unwinnable and even lost.

and here is yet another reason why we must win in afgahistan as well.

How about packing up and getting the hell out of there. This country is ruled by hundreds of warlords, there will NEVER be any real strong central rule.

The nuts in this country can maintain a very painful, low level guerilla war for the next thousand years. We would have to take contol of this country on a very brutal and massive scale, something we are not prepared to do. We would also have to close the afghan/paki border, which we are not prepared to do.

A dictator with a huge army could control this country thru massive slaughter, accompanied by ruthless use of terror and threats, which we will not do. We lost when we occupied this country.

peasceDUll

what the hell is peacedull

PEACEFULL....

This'll be the first real decision Obama will have to make--
#21 | Posted by matsop

.....he has set a date for leaving Iraq.......
.....he already added several battalions in Afghanistan.....
......he diffused the Russian missile crisis......
......he stopped the fighter jet program (cost some ridiculous amount for each plane-a give away to the defence industry)......
......he is upgrading the VA with new leadership and a mandate to provide better care.....
......he increased the defence budget but rationalized it by more intelligent spending.....

He's actually done a great deal in a short time with regards to defence. He is involved and active, unlike our last POTUS, who delegated too much, to those who knew too little.

I am a conservative and retired military officer. As Commander in Chief, President Obama can move as quickly or as slowly as he feels he needs to. He will be judged in three more years as to whether or not he made the right call or moved quickly enough. I would tend to agree with McChrystal, but then I am not the CinC--President Obama is.

That having been said, he appears to pretty indecisive about the course he wants to steer. Had he spent a bit more time on the war effort, and a bit less time campaigning in NJ and VA, I'd be more confident in his ability to lead this war effort. Where exactly does the war fall on his 1-n list of things to do....

no...you were wrong in declaring it unwinnable and even lost.
.......#23 | Posted by afkabl2

.....how would the outcome in Iraq differ between winning or losing ?.......

......when we leave, it will look the same, it will be the same........

......we took the control from the sunnis, most sunni muslims are our allies (like Saudi).....

......and handed it to the shias, who get their marching orders from Iran.....

..misconceived through lies....and ill-beggotten through Wolfowitz & Rumsfeld's failed strategy....

....the whole war was a terrible waste of people, money, and time.......

He is, true to character, waiting for a clear and obvious choice, and this situation does not present one. In this case one could argue that waiting this long has been justified so as to gather all the proper facts and inputs. But at some point, all that there is to know has ben discussed, and he must act -- either bolster the existing troops or begin an exit.

The fact that Obama is being increasingly viewed as indecisive (Afghanistan) or simply a follower of older/more experienced masters (Healthcare) on many of the issues is what makes these delays seem like one more piece in the pattern of stasis.

And the Nobel Committee did him no favors by awarding him the prize prospectively. How can he make a choice that possibly inflames the region even more than it is and still keep the trophy on his mantel in the WH? The perception that he has rushed -- or allowed others in his party to rush -- much larger and not-fully-understood initiatives that had no historical precedent, and yet is stuck on this one, may have its roots there.

No wonder his hair has turned significantly greyer in 10 months.

he appears to pretty indecisive about the course he wants to steer.....27 | Posted by fixo

.....the previous administration spent 7 years without even a hint that they had developed an exit strategy........

......so what's the big rush now ?.....Obama already added several battalions, but instead of getting better, the military situation became worse.......

Eikenberry.....who was the military head of the Afghan war, says that more troops are not the answer. McChrystal wants more troops, but he said that more troops will NOT WIN the war, that it would take diplomatic measures to ultimately solve the uprising.

Let's get it right this time.

It is a sad day for our servicemen and their families!

Obama is the "do nothing" president!

The cynic would say that his strategy involves not making a decision, which will lead to Congress de-funding the war effort due to lack of progress. Than Obama can blame Congress for the outcome which works just fine for him and frannkly for the folks who elected him. I'm sure the Taliban will crawl back into power in Afghanistan and I'm equally sure theat Al Qaeda will be up and operating and planning the much more devastating attack on the great Satan in no time at all. I'm sure they will be considerate enough to hold off until after November 4, 2012.

The perception that he has rushed - much larger and not-fully-understood initiatives that had no historical precedent,
#29 | Posted by NappyHeadedHo

......every western country in the world is forty years ahead of us in this.......

.......your opinion is like the Taliban saying that we should not educate females, it has never been done successfully anywhere in the world, and can only lead to trouble, besides which, we would need twice as many teachers, it would be so expensive that education would have to be rationed........

Did anyone see Obama's mini-teleprompter
.......#31 | Posted by KBM

......you're still fucked up that Americans elected a president that can speak English ?......

....the whole war was a terrible waste of people, money, and time.......

#28 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-11-12 11:53 AM |

yeah I guess you are right

I am sure the iraqis miss the rape rooms by the sadaam 'boys'

and the regular torture and hey those elections where sadaam won with 99% of the vote..that saves a lot of reporting work for the papers there.

HEY I Guess the suicide bombers really miss that 25K he paid the famlies for murdering women and children around the region..

WOW>.I didnt relalize just HOW GOOD iraqis had it under hussein..

thanks for the reminder

true to character, waiting for a clear and obvious choice,
and he must act -- either bolster the existing troops or begin an exit.
------------------------------
------------
The perception that he has rushed -- or allowed others in his party to rush -- #29 | Posted by ........NappyHeadedHo

......so he's either too fast or too slow ?.......

.....can't possibly be that his detractors will use whichever negative is use-able to smear him ?.......

Obama added a couple of battalions--how many folks is that? It really depends--could be between 300 to 1000 folks. So he added 2000 folks--probably less than half of those are combatant troops and frankly troop movements in and out are closely guarded numbers--so it would be a mistake to assume you that the numbers of folks in country has gone up or down. People rotate out all the time. Sending in a couple of battalions does not mean a couple of battalions are not also leaving....

I am sure the iraqis miss the rape rooms by the sadaam 'boys'
.......#35 | Posted by afkabl2

.....we killed 600,000 thousand of them, and displaced 4 million, and truncated the education of unknown millions of their children.......

.....do you honestly believe any Iraqi is grateful for what we did to them ?........

Sending in a couple of battalions does not mean a couple of battalions are not also leaving....

#37 | Posted by fixo

.....he has already added 20 thousand troops since coming into office.......

.....do you honestly believe any Iraqi is grateful for what we did to them ?........

#38 | Posted by skizziks at 2009

yes I do.

......you're still fucked up that Americans elected a president that can speak English ?......

#34 | Posted by skizziks

He has proved he caqn read English. When he speaks with out a tel-a-prompter I'm not sure what he is studdering about.

Let me make this perfectly clear.... I admire my father for running out on my white mother and me.

.....he has set a date for leaving Iraq....... Setting a date years in advance is not a decision.
.....he already added several battalions in Afghanistan..... - He has sent some new troops, but with no plan, no support, and no goal. That's a decision?
......he diffused the Russian missile crisis...... What Russian missile crisis? He simply reneged on a prior US promise. Some great decision.
......he stopped the fighter jet program (cost some ridiculous amount for each plane-a give away to the defence industry)...... Obama stopped it? Don't think so, it was killed long before he would have had to make any decision.
......he is upgrading the VA with new leadership and a mandate to provide better care..... A mandate is a decision? Wrong again.
......he increased the defence budget but rationalized it by more intelligent spending..... again, where is this actual decision? He didn't make any, simply waited for congressional action. And whether there was a "more intelligent spending" is awfully subjective.

This is certainly the first real decision that he's had to do himself, and he simply can't, after months of meetings and discussions, do anything. But why should anyone actually be surprised. He has never done anything on his own, has never had to pony up and pay the piper. The man is weak.

#33 | Posted by skizziks

Such a sophomoric debate technique saying my statements are Taliban-like. At least you didn't go the whole distance and compare me to Hitler. I admire your restraint.

Let me restate my point: Obama has allowed initiatives such as Healthcare reform and Bank bail-outs to be fast-tracked through special sessions, and without what many, even senior members of his own party, admit to be a proper amount of examination and discussion -- initiatives with such little historical precedence that they demand acquiring and understanding whole new data models for cause and effect. And yet on whether or not to sedn more troops to a particular theater -- something this country has had to analyze and decide upon dozens of times in the past -- he seems delayed, in the absence of knowing 100% of the facts, by the fear of failure.

Is it because -- unlike the other examples where he recieves a bill out of committee and someone simply puts the pen into his hand and points to the line on which he is to sign -- in this case the buck truly does stop with him and he is paralyzed by that realization? Or is he, by design, a careful and studied person, in which case why does he not apply that to the other issues when it is clearly required.

That's all I'm saying.

/ Not defneding genital mutilation.
// Too "Stalin" for you? Or not extreme enough for you to simply spew a canned retort.

thanks for the reminder
.....#35 | Posted by afkabl2

......the Iraqis never invited us......
......we attacked them on a false pretense......
......killed 600 thousand, displaced 4 million..
......we destroyed their economy......
......we removed a secular government that kept the peace between religious factions.......
......installed a shia religious leaning government that defers to IRAN and may bring in sharia law once we are gone.......
......most Iraqis say that they were BETTER OFF under Saddam than under American rule.......
......the world is full of tin pot dictators , they are not necessarily any of our business......
......we should have left Saddam alone to his own business, we do not own the world, and are not responsible for every petty dictator.......

600,000 thousand = 600,000,000 but I think we get your point. Of course it's a liberal, moveon.org fat-ass lie, but we get your intended meaning. But please, show us something real that actually backs up that figure. Perhaps you think Glen Beck raped and killed many of them, and the rest are stuck in Cheney's basement awaiting torture.

Such a sophomoric debate technique saying my statements are Taliban-like.
#43 | Posted by NappyHeadedHo

.....the comparison was to the American attitude to public health care-and the Taliban attitude to female education........

.....they are remarkably similar, remarkably backward and the comparison is valid......

Hussein kept the peace between religeous factions???I guess you believe Hitler kept the peace between the Jews and the Gentiles too.....

- he simply can't, after months of meetings and discussions, do anything.

Yes, and it only took GW 6 months to decide on ignoring Cheney and doing the surge.... and 7 years deciding to do nothing in Afghanistan.

Colin Powell has it right, the Pres should take his time and make sure it's done right.

Let me restate my point
.....43 | Posted by NappyHeadedHo

I get it:

Obama is too slow, because you say so.
Obama is too fast, because you say so.
But never falls into the "just right" category, because you say so.

...thanks for the clarification......

......we should have left Saddam alone to his own business, we do not own the world, and are not responsible for every petty dictator.......

#44 | Posted by skizziks

sure reads a lot like things I have read about america in the 1930's.

what would have happened if we had taken hitler out in 1938?
how many millions would have been saved?

IM not comparing anyone to hitler so dont go there..
but IM not sure that sadaam could have been classified as a petty dictator.

Hussein kept the peace between religeous factions???
#47 | Posted by fixo

....he only had to kill about a hundred a year to do it.....

....we killed 600,000 and still did not get it done.....

.....but the bigger question is , why is it any of our business anyways ??

Oops, I keep forgetting. It's Bush's fault. Bush is not in charge, but you make one really great point - Bush took 6 months to decide to do the surge, even while Dems were insisting that the war was already lost and that no more troops should be sent. Bush was wrong to wait, the Dems were wrong about the war. Cheney, apparently, was right. Care to admit that? So your argument is that Bush should not have waited but Obama should? What kind of crap is that. Only a liberal mind could come up with that argument.

Colin Powell has it right, the Pres should take his time and make sure it's done right.

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2009

okay...

SO why not postpone your trip to asia

why not send someone else to campaign for the fuckin olympics

how about just michelle and the girls taking in all of the concerts?

how about less golf and B ball??

take your time sure??? but look at what he is doing with a large portion of that time

and REMEMBER...bush stopped even playing golf because of the war raging.....

Which petty dictators should we be responsible for? Just the easy ones?

but IM not sure that sadaam could have been classified as a petty dictator.
......#50 | Posted by afkabl2

.......why was he our business ??.......

...does it not occur to you that if our government had a REAL interest in Iraq they could have given it to us, instead of all the lies ?......

-bush stopped even playing golf because of the war raging.....

That was really big of him.... now, watch this drive!

-Cheney, apparently, was right

No Cheeeeney was wrong all along, about everything. WMD, the surge, everything.

Which petty dictators should we be responsible for? Just the easy ones?
.......#54 | Posted by fixo

....none of them.......

.....if they don't attack us, or our treaty allies, then leave them alone......

.....we wasted 4thousand plus American lives, a trillion dollars, and what did we get out of this war ??.....nothing.......

Let's wait and see what happens regarding his running the show before lauding or lambasting him.

OK?

#15 | Posted by JeffJ

You Got It Jeff!!!!

bush stopped even playing golf because of the war raging.....
......#53 | Posted by afkabl2 at

.......and achieved what ?.......zero.......

...he probably started to feel guilty about the soldiers dying for no reason........

Since the end of the first gulf war in 1991, US and allied aircraft were monitoring the UN imposed no fly zones over Iraq. Saddam repeatedly locked up those aircraft with fire control radar and occassionally launched missiles at them. You didn't hear about that because Bill and Hilary did not want you to know. Bottom line we had every justification needed to attack Iraq--the question is what took so long--

It is a sad day for our servicemen and their families!

Obama is the "do nothing" president!

PrezBo is the 'Empty Suit' that all rational normal folks knew long before he was elected.

He lacks both the desire and determination to do what it takes to win in Afganistan.....

That being the case bring the troops home Now......All of them.
.

#61 posted by 2008ATL:

Sadly I find myself thinking you are probably correct, but hoping you are dead wrong. The last thing our troops need is an indecisive leader at the top. Despite being in power now for almost a year, he has failed to develop or articulate a war strategy, outside of blaming Bush for being there--which is not a strategy, but an excuse. For the sake of our troops, they ought to come home, for the sake of our country the President needs to grow a pair--quickly.

hey cork

thats funny.....remind me to laugh later..

come on skizz..
you cant ignore assholes like sadaam

not since 9/11..and dont even think IM linking the two...Im linking the fact that we are no longer seperated by two oceans.

ANYWAY........

perception is reality and the WORLD of our enemies are seeing him "DITHER"..........

and I dont believe a SINGLE conservative here believes he should go off 'half cocked'...but COME ON..

as we were told back in my basketball officiating days.

be prepared
MAKE THE CALL

December 1941. US at war with Japan and Germany

May 1945, war with Germany ends.

September 1945, war with Japan ends.

From 1941 to 1945 is four years of declared war.

When I think about how many US soldiers fought, the massive campaigns that were orchestrated, and the timeframe - what in the world is wrong with today's leadership?

I couldn't imagine todays leaders running WWII. During the war, leaders had to make decisions and fast - and IMO, their decisions involved larger scale operations than what we are seeing.

So, why are todays leaders incompetent compared to their predecessors?

I think I know the answer and its pretty much a bipartisan failure

they tend to worry about thier legacy and getting re-elected.

in reading
AMERicA, the last best hope...there are stories of presidents through the years who have made decisions without regard to thier legacy

best example
ABE LINCOLN.

OH YEAH

and the CUTTHROAT shit is still there but everytime they fart, its reported and on the net across the world before lunch

LINCOLN THAT WISHY WASHY FLIP FLOPPER!!

I was for slavery before I was against slavery!

"So, why are todays leaders incompetent compared to their predecessors?"

While I'm not disagreeing, the problems and the enemies were more clear cut back then. Right now, there's a civil war going on in Afghanistan, and neither of the sides are very appetizing.

For the sake of our troops, they ought to come home, for the sake of our country the President needs to grow a pair--quickly.

#62 | Posted by fixo at 2009-11-12 12:44 PM | Reply

For someone who is so obsessed with his 'Image' around the entire planet you would think he would know better.

He will surely be perceived as a vacillating weakling incapable of making the tough decisions...

Meanwhile our troops are left hanging in the wind as the situation grows worse by the day....Bring them Home
.

2008=Defeatocrat

""

Imagine that. A President who ACTUALLY wants a "clear exit strategy", unlike the last one who only SAID he wouldn't send U.S. forces into harms way without a 'clear mission and a clear exit strategy', but was lying his ass off like CHAIRBORNE does.

......you're still fucked up that Americans elected a president that can speak English ?......

#34 | Posted by skizziks

Actually, he speaks a North American dialect that might not be clearly understood in parts of rural England.

I hate to say it but I'm finally agreeing with the libs here. It's time to bring the troops home. No joke, I really mean it. Obama is a horribly weak leader. After months of talking he can't make a decision. That just leaves thousands of soldiers sitting as targets. There is no reason they need to die simply because the crappy excuse for a president is too afraid to make even a policy goal, much less a decision as to how to achieve that goal. No more deaths for a do-nothing talking head with balls of mush.

There is no reason they need to die simply because the crappy excuse for a president....

Agreed, but I don't see that as a lib position.

".....he already added several battalions in Afghanistan..... - He has sent some new troops, but with no plan, no support, and no goal. That's a decision?'

The decisions was made back in Dec. 08 as to the approved troop levels for 2009. Today we have about 60,000 in Afghanistan. Which is the figure approved last year or early this year. The same strategy Obama endorsed back in March of 2009. So I guess the question is, what has he decided to do knowing the situation has changed dramatically in the last eight months?

Osama is relying on his vast amount of military experience to overrule those of lesser experience in the room.

The new marching orders will be to organize the communities, agitate the shit out of the "oppressors", taunt them into some photo ops that the rest of the world will find distasteful, burn their side of town to the ground, bitch because it is not re-built, more pictures, and finally, the oppressors will capitulate. Soon there after, the newly "organized communities" impose policy initiatives, based on these past inequities, to insure that the opressors provide, food shelter, medical care at the opressor's expense until the end of time.

Osama is relying on his vast amount of military experience to overrule those of lesser experience in the room.
.......#77 | Posted by A_Citizen

......he is the Commander in Chief.......

.....not the Delegator in Chief........

Skiz,

I am aware of the title. But in this case, the title is WAY too big for the boy. Since the closest thing he has ever seen to military service is Bill Ayers or a militant racial group, he should listen to the people who KNOW what they are doing. I would hope that his "commandering" involves more than walking around the desk great men have set at in the past and say "what I do? What I do?"

-Since the closest thing he has ever seen to military service is Bill Ayers or a militant racial group, he should listen to the people who KNOW what they are doing

He must mean people like former Chickenhawk in Chief "Duck!" Cheney.

he should listen to the people who KNOW what they are doing.
#79 | Posted by A_Citizen

.....and the most qualified is General Eikenberry.....

.....who was in charge of the American forces in Afghanistan for two years.......

.....and is now the Ambassador to Afghanistan.....

.......and he advised "Don't send more troops, because it will not make any difference"......

the title is WAY too big for the boy.
.......#79 | Posted by A_Citizen

.......I take that to be a racist characterization.....

......he was a law professor and a senator before being elected president, what have you ever achieved before logging in to the Retort, that you would be more of a man than he is ?.....

But in this case,
......#79 | Posted by A_Citizen

......in this case he was left a giant mess by the previous administration.......

......it will take time to clean up........

......but I guarantee you, he will not be lost in the fog of idiocy for 7 years, as was the previous un-named occupant of his office ........

he should listen to the people who KNOW what they are doing.
#79 | Posted by A_Citizen

......here is what "the people who KNOW what they are doing" have to say.........

Kabul, Afghanistan - America's ambassador to Afghanistan has objected to sending more troops here while the political situation remains unsettled, in a move that highlights how the fraud marred reelection of President Hamid Karzai has not quelled calls for major governmental reform, but only magnified them.
Ambassador Karl Eikenberry has reportedly sent multiple cables back to Washington over the past week adding outlining his misgivings to a proposed surge of tens of thousands of US troops requested by the commander of NATO forces here, Gen. Stanley McChrystal. Mr. Eikenberry himself once commanded US forces in Afghanistan, adding clout to his concerns.

Skiz,

You may take the characterization however you like. It really wouldn't matter. I refuse to teabag him like the rest of the dems do, so I am racist anyway.

First, I didn't say that I was more qualified than he was. I would be listening to my advisers that are more qualified than I.

Second, his JD is printed in the same ink as mine, so don't throw that in my face and he was an absentee senator at best. George Bush who had a questionable service record in the national guard is more qualified than your boy.

Corkey,

Since you threw the former Vice president out, He was Secretary of Defense and White House Chief of Staff...not counting his career in Congress.

Your boy gave a speech.

George Bush who had a questionable service record in the national guard is more qualified than your boy.
......#85 | Posted by A_Citizen

.......just can't stop yourself from using a racist pejorative, can you ?.......

......as for GWB, he fucked up everything he touched, if was qualified to lead either war, he would have known how to end them,
.....the proof is in the doing and he failed twice (don't get me started on the economy or healthcare of George "I'll mail it in" Bush) ......

the former Vice president out, He was Secretary of Defense and White House Chief of Staff...not counting his career in Congress.
Your boy gave a speech.
.........#85 | Posted by A_Citizen

.....more than giving a speech, Obama was RIGHT.....

.....and for all his decades in government, Cheney was WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING......

.....I guess the difference is in intelligence and wisdom, Obama has both, and Cheney does not.......

I would be listening to my advisers that are more qualified than I.
......#85 | Posted by A_Citizen

.....and what about Eikenberry's advice then ?....

....or is that qualified advice not a "talking point" ?.......

"his JD is printed in the same ink as mine" Ditto. It's funny how people love to through that out there. I've known a lot of Con Law professors. It's one of those subjects that anyone can teach whatever they believe to be true. It's also interesting that Biden was also one such, but doesn't even know what the VP's Constitutional duties are, or even in which section of the Constitution the VP is referenced. Bush was always ridiculed, even after an undergrad from Yale and an MBA from Harvard, not to mention being able to pilot a supersonic fighter aircraft from the 60s. Also interesting is the fact that Obama speaks slower and with less effect than Bush without his teleprompter. Watch closely.

"Cheney was WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING"

This is where the libs fall flat. Such absolutes are simply inane and brainless Obamabot crap. Not even the do-nothing coward currently president is wrong ALL the time. He did sign an execution order for some Somali terrorists, which was fantastically carried out by our wonderful protectors in Navy Spec Ops. Now if only he would show a little spine about Afghanistan.

Now if only he would show a little spine about Afghanistan.
.....#90 | Posted by SpokaneJim

.....he's showing plenty of spine, he's taking time to do it right.......

.....instead of fucking it up quick, the way the "well qualified" Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney did.......

#89 | Posted by SpokaneJim
#85 | Posted by A_Citizen

......face it boys......the Republican administration fucked up both wars.......

......and the economy...........

.......now don't worry though, Obama is twice as smart as both Bush and Cheney put together, and he will fix it.........

.......but those two guys spent 8 years fucking the country up, it's just gonna take a little time to get things right........

"Now if only he would show a little spine about Afghanistan."

Actually, by rejecting the plans, he shows lots of spine, the kind of spine we need. A weakling would give in to the desires of Gen. McChrystal without considering the long term consequences for the country. I think wiser folks are beginning to question whether we really want to commit to a decade of war with thousands of casualties and expenses that we can't even realistically estimate.
And to make such a committment with the corrupt, virtually illigitimate government of Afghanistan just doesn't seem to be wise. Joe Biden's ideas are seeming better all the time.

Danni,

Personally, I found his slow deliberation to be rather refreshing.

Jesus.

Giving serious consideration to committing 40K+ troops in lieu of flying by the seat of his pants?

What a whimp! / sarcasm

In all seriousness, good for him.

PS - Larry will most certainly pretend I didn't post this.

"PS - Larry will most certainly pretend I didn't post this."

Just for kicks, I will too!! : )

Doing nothing is showing spine? Hardly. Letting soldiers continue to get killed while searching for a politically correct direction of travel is not brave, it's the epitome of cowardice. He can't even come up with a policy or goal, much less a battle plan. The advisers he hand-picked have given him ample advice, yet he putters around playing golf instead of facing the hard truth about being president. A leader is required. He is not. If he can't find the stones to make a military decision, bring the troops home. I'll stay away from NY and DC.

Unlike Bush, the liar, Obama's ACTUALLY wanting an 'exit strategy' for Afghanistan.

He has an exit strategy, surrender and run away like the little peacenik coward he is. He should just carry a little white flag with him every where he goes.

You're as big a moron as Chairborne

He has an exit strategy, surrender and run away
.....#98 | Posted by SpokaneJim

.....you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.......

......you say listen to the experienced generals....

......but the most experienced American general in Afghanistan, Eikenberry, says more troops won't help.......

......so which is it ?.......

"You're as big a moron as Chairborne" I'll assume you are speaking of me, and thank you. If my opinions differ from the likes of you, I must be doing something right.

"You're as big a moron as Chairborne" I'll assume you are speaking of me,
........#101 | Posted by SpokaneJim

.....I would say it's a safe assumption.......

How many times does it have to be said - Obama's own general, specifically chose by the Messiah himself, has requested a specific number of troops. Obama refuses to listen. NATO and even France (cheese-eating surrender monkeys) want additional troops and a more aggressive posture. I understand that Obama's balls probably haven't dropped yet, but he does have advisers.

-Since you threw the former Vice president out, He was Secretary of Defense and White House Chief of Staff

AND 5 time 'Nam deferment winner who had, "other priorities" at the time.

I guess he could have just run off to England and smoked lots of dope.

Or he could have hid in Alabama and snorted coke off of Victor Ashe's schlong.

Obama refuses to listen.
......#103 | Posted by SpokaneJim

......you are refusing to touch the Eikenberry recommendation.......

.......avoiding it, does not make it less real.....

Eikenberry is a strong recommendation, but for what? Do nothing? Leave? Fine, take his advice. Take the advise of his wife. Call Oprah and ask her what he should do. Bottom line is, Obama is scared limp to do anything that may cost him the vote of some ACORN member somewhere. Eikenberry may very well be right, but he wasn't put there to give combat advice, McChrystal was. Frankly, I don't give a rip about the Afganis (sp), I care about soldiers sitting around waiting for their commander in chief to come up with a thought. Horrible leadership, absolutely horrible.

Being cautious about the situation in Afghanistan is smart. The days of some general telling the White House what to do are, fortunately, on hold. We need a policy which saves the lives of American troops as well as one that tells those who want to kill us that we mean business. What we must never do is confuse "those who want to kill us" with "those who merely hate us". I don't blame a lot of people in a lot of places for "hating" America, just as they "hated" Britain in another era. They "hate" us but they also want to be like us, not to kill us in mindless symbolic gestures like Al Qaida seems to encourage. The political situation in Afghanistan is too unclear for there to be a definitive position to take. Obama knows that a "Mission Accomplished" strategy is as false as the last one, on that banner they then "removed".

Fine, take his advice.
#108 | Posted by SpokaneJim

.....he is the most qualified American and you said that Obama should listen to the most qualified general.......

.......you only seem to want Obama to listen to the McChrystal strategy.....problem with that is that there is no EXIT STRATEGY......just more of the same idiocy we have been doing for 8 years.....

......so cool down, let Obama take in everything, and he will make a good decision.......

......a better one than the previous clowns who rushed in and fucked everything up.......

Washington and Lafayette had an exit strategy. Madison had an exit strategy. Lincoln had an exit strategy. Wilson had an exit strategy. Teddy R.had an exit strategy. FDR and Truman had an exit strategy. Eisenhower had an exit strategy. Even Johnson and Nixon had exit strategies, though they didn't play out as expected. Any guesses as to what those exit strategies were? Obama doesn't even have an ongoing strategy, how the fuck is he supposed to have an exit strategy. It's a fucking war, dumbshits, the exit comes at the end of the war. Have all of you already cut your balls off and mailed them to the Taliban?

What wars have you led Jim? You seem to think you're an expert. Why is that?

the exit comes at the end of the war.
......#111 | Posted by SpokaneJim

.....and how would you know when it ended ?......

......the Taliban ARE the Afghans, they have been at war for over 30 years and are game to keep fighting against any and all foreigners.......

......this is not a conventional war, and there will not be a conventional victory to end it......

Nevermind Jim, I see you are one of those ACORN wackjobs. There is no need for you to reply to my question. I don't give a fuck what some hater like you has to say.

And Spokane still sucks. It's the Toledo of the NW.

can't vote present Obama?

I'm no expert, not at all. Can't a guy have an opinion? Are you asking the same of those that have the same opinion as you? But seriously, does it take an expert to figure out that SOMETHING needs to be done? Remember, I'm agreeing that the troops need to be brought home. Do you disagree? And if so, are you an expert? And while I'm not obliged or motivated to give details, I do in fact have far, far more military leadership experience than our current dumbshit-in-chief.

I am not questioning the CIC's actions as if I know better.

Are you?

Wow, insulting a town that a poster may or may not still live in. Now that's a strong argument. I may just have to vote Democrat next time around. I feel so ashamed. Boo hoo hooo. Therein lies the strength of all your arguments, I guess, nothing more than mindless blather.

I do in fact have far, far more military leadership experience than our current dumbshit-in-chief.

Then you should know better. So I call bullshit.

No, the last time we interacted, it involved how shitty a town Spokane is. It was brief. If you got out, Congrats!

"Are you?"

Yes. This is America. I'm allowed. Bothered?

Bothered? No.

But you don't know shit about fighting a war from a strategic perspective. Don't forget that.

On your point then - Spokane is not a shitty town. It's not a Seattle or a Denver, but it's far better than a Detroit or a New Orleans. Nothing overly special, nothing to rave about. But there's skiing near by, and only a day's drive to a dozen national parks. (maybe not a dozen, but several on both sides of the border) It's hardly a topic, however, that sheds light on one's opinions. Regardless, I've spent far more time in places like Alaska than Washington, and certainly am not a "resident" of Spokane. So insult Spokane all you want, no difference to me.

#122 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2009-11-12 05:12 PM | Reply : Shit For Brains FLAG

"But you don't know shit about fighting a war from a strategic perspective." Wrong, but you wouldn't really know, would you?

But you don't know shit about fighting a war from a strategic perspective. Don't forget that.

#123 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-11-12 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

This Manypaths is a intellectual giant. He knows more that most of us about everything.

Ok.

Ever been to that digital blackjack bar downtown? Next to some Chain Music hall? The Music Hall is nice, but it seemed so out of place.

And that blackjack bar was the only place I could find to have a drink on a Saturday night.

After all Manybaths loves to hump his baby Jesus doll.

More steak tonight. Is it uncle Venkatishramadoodoo?

I do look forward to the Arm-Chair Generals discussion that is bound to follow.

Let's here from all the experts of fighting wars!!!

You know who you are.........

#13 | Posted by Manypaths

There you go Slick.

See I don't know shit about fighting wars, and don't suggest otherwise. But I have been to Spokane.

Once this Afgan thing turned from an assault against the Taliban to a police/security action, it was doomed. The assault worked, but which corrupt government do you want in place?

Not much for drinking, but I think I know which one your speaking of. The nearby Fox Theater has been completely renovated. As for sucking, Spokane's Davenport Hotel has been listed - no I'm not kidding - by one travel magazine as one of the top 10 hotels in the world. In Spokane of all places. Go figure.

I am not questioning the CIC's actions as if I know better.

Are you?

#117 | Posted by Manypaths

Many, you spent your first 3 1/2 years on here doing exactly that. Why stop?

then you should have no problem providing links where I suggested tactical strategies for fighting a war.

Disagreeing that we go to war doesn't count. I need to see links where I suggested I know how to fight a war better than the militarty or CIC.

If you need help with search stings, I'll be glad to help. But it isn't going to do you ANY good.

The Fox, that's the one.

That weird blackjack bar had me thinking there is a meth problem in that city. Strange folks hanging out there, but maybe it was the LSD I had taken.

I'll admit, that was my one experience within the city limits and anything in the NW is better than anything East of the Mississippi.

So, was I just in a barron part of the city? The lack of nightlife where I was seemed shocking.

Nice buildings that didn't seem to have anything going on inside of them.

Just a statistical observation:

I started reading this thread from post #1 and after seeing multiple repeat threads from skizziks, decided to count the number of his/her postings in this thread. S/he is responsible for 32 out of the currently 134 messages on this thread, meaning s/he is responsible for 24% of the postings on this thread alone... wtf... In one case he chose to answer a single posting 3 times, with three different tirades. And I can only assume s/he was busy posting on other threads and blogs on here at the same time. Is s/he using Dragon? Does s/he have a team of interns typing on his behalf? Too much tea?

Now, if only he/she/they actually had something rational to say...

This Manypaths is a intellectual giant.

#127 | Posted by slicksterWilly at 2009-11-12 05:16 PM

He certainly does hide it well....
.

It wasn't just your LSD. The Fox is now respectable, but the surrounding area, after about 5:30pm, is not. There are a lot of empty buildings downtown, but some improvements. Like I said, nothing spectacular, but then again I've been to East Saint Louis, bad parts of Miami and Tampa, and some really sleazy places outside of the country. Folks harping on the poor in the US need to visit Guatemala or Honduras. And don't take the tour bus.

#135 | Posted by Manypaths

Are you saying you have never, on here, questioned George W. Bush's decisions on Iraq and Afghanistan. Or his decisions in the war on terror? Or on border security? Just wanted to get that clear. I'll take you at your word, but wanted to make sure we're not just talking about ground tactics and where to dig the foxholes, but about his role as CIC.

Yes, they had just finished fixing up the Fox when I was there. HUGE freaking place to see a show with 100 people. It must hold over 1000.

Ever get to Bend?

#135 | Posted by Manypaths

Are you saying you have never, on here, questioned George W. Bush's decisions on Iraq and Afghanistan. Or his decisions in the war on terror? Or on border security? Just wanted to get that clear. I'll take you at your word, but wanted to make sure we're not just talking about ground tactics and where to dig the foxholes, but about his role as CIC.

#142 | Posted by PublicTrough

Forget it, dude. He knows he fucked up. He won't answer. He'll just hope RCade pulls the link from the front page before he has to.

"then you should have no problem providing links where I suggested tactical strategies for fighting a war."

Already addressed. Ball's not in my court.

Have not been down to Bend, would like to, though. Are we now off topic? This conversation is much too cordial.

Admittedly, I prescribe to the "total war" concept. Don't do anything half-assed. There's a reason the US never lost a war prior to Korea, or Israel prior to their last recent debacle. A limited war may limit casualties, but it is prolonged and in the end only fails. Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq and Afghanistan are the obvious examples. In order to win in Afghanistan, the gloves have to come off, the "rules of engagement" removed, and, as the saying goes, the hammer dropped. Don't think for a second I condone the way the war was waged under Bush and Cheney. I would not have invaded Iraq, but once done it should have been a blitzkrieg, not a romp through the woods. If Obama is not willing to commit to a war, he should pull the troops out.

If Obama is not willing to commit to a war, he should pull the troops out.

Agreed but don't I think that is the case here. I think he just wants to make sure he gets it as right as he can. I admire that regardless of the person or position. This will unfold. To judge now is premature.

The fact that he seems to be putting pressure on the Afgan Gov to clean up their act is a very positive thing IMO. I remember that the folks we are fighting in Afgan are the ones who started the fight. I have no problems with the US doing everything we can to end it and end it victoriously, whatever that is going to look like.

Obama: On the mountainous border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan "the most dangerous place in the world."

"This is not simply an American problem far from it," Obama said. "It is, instead, an international security challenge of the highest order. Terrorist attacks in London and Bali were tied to al-Qaida and its allies in Pakistan, as were attacks in North Africa and the Middle East, in Islamabad and Kabul. If there is a major attack on an Asian, European, or African city, it, too, is likely to have ties to al-Qaida's leadership in Pakistan."

The president added: "The safety of people around the world is at stake."

What's the problem PrezBo.....

Remember "The safety of people around the world is at stake."

BHO is weakling who simply can't handle the 'tough' decisions.......Hell, even Hillary correctly nailed him on it last year.
.

Yeah, back to the less cordial bickering!! If Obama actually gave a rat's ass about "people around the world" maybe he would do something. But unless they are an admitted radical domestic terrorist or an ACORN member, they mean nothing to him. Their only purpose is for his use as a tool to get elected or to convince others he actually cares. He has no concern about the Afghan people, only about his Messiah image and self-importance. He wouldn't notice them if they caught on fire. As a weak-kneed little man child with his balls still firmly entrenched up his arse, Obama simply cannot make a decision beyond White House drapery.

He has no concern about the Afghan people, only about his Messiah image and self-importance.

Absolutely correct....

If he hadn't shot his mouth off with the far left talking points about the war in Afghanistan being the 'Right War' he would not be painted into a corner as he is now.

The only problem is our troops are the ones paying the Real price...
.

Obama had a stop over on Elmendorf AFB in Alaska this afternoon. They couldn't get enough volunteers to attend the [performance], so the commanders were forced to have a mandatory formation in order to fill the bleachers. He has little cred to those that really matter, the soldiers he theoretically leads. Unfortunately it is more than a theory. He in fact is their leader, but cannot lead. I'd rather take a randomly selected airman over this peon.

They couldn't get enough volunteers to attend the [performance], so the commanders were forced to have a mandatory formation in order to fill the bleachers.

Good Grief.....that's pathetic

Can't say as I blame the troops for feeling the way that they do about the empty suit.
.

They couldn't get enough volunteers to attend the [performance], so the commanders were forced to have a mandatory formation in order to fill the bleachers.

Just like the Right to make crap up and the other righties to join right in, all willing to believe. Reminds me of The latest chain e-mail smear against Barack Obama: He "blew off" troops at an Afghan base to shoot hoops for a publicity photo.

The problem I have with Obama on this is that it is being played out in public-- what's he trying to tell us ---- that it's so hard to make a decision-- it tells me either he is very indecisive or he's trying to make it appear how thoughtful he is (if it's the latter, then it's a con again and I for one am getting tired of the con) I have never seen a president in the past grandstanding like this and making major decisions in public like he is--- get your facts and then keep the decision making in private--- I'm really beginning to think this guy is a narcissist (NPD) and in that case those folks have trouble making controversial decisions since they don't want folks not to love them and think they're the greatest. That's probably why he is having trouble making this decision.

Yav, I may be an old coot and long retired, but I still have contacts in the Alaska military. This didn't come to me via the internet, but from active duty airmen and soldiers. I don't personally know a single military man or woman that approves of our coward-in-chief.

Obama just voted "Present" once again, just like he did in the Illinois Legislature and the U.S. Senate. And our troops are left twisting in the wind while he eats Kobe Beef and travels all about the world with his grande entourage. Let's face it, he just doesn't care about our people in harms way fighting this war against these terrorists here (Ft. Hood) or abroad. What a terrible mistake America made in electing this man-child.

Right and left are complaining that Obama isn't moving quickly enough.

Right wants him to escalate Afghanistan with at least 40k more troops and they want it done 9 months ago.

Left wants him to remove all troops immediately.

That he has taken the time to:

1. Check the outcome of the Afghan election.

2. Listened to many differing sources of information.

3. Not listened to those of both sides complaining about him not following their timetable.

He just might make the exact best decision that can be made from the no win senario situation he inherited.

>>>

Obama's hesitancy on war buildup sends messages
By ROBERT BURNS and BEN FELLER (AP) 2 hours ago
WASHINGTON President Barack Obama's drawn-out decision-making on Afghanistan is sending messages. To the Afghan government: Clean up your act. To the Pentagon: I'm no rubber stamp. To the American public: More troops can't be the sole answer.
Obama has been accused by some Republicans of "dithering" about whether to send more troops and deepen U.S. involvement in an increasingly unpopular war.
The slow process also has left him open to critics who recall his pronouncement in March, after developing what he called a "stronger, smarter and comprehensive" Afghan war strategy, that the situation there was "increasingly perilous." He ordered more troops to battle then, with little discernible result so far.
This time, he's making it clear he won't be rushed. Or pushed. And the way the messages he's sending play out could help determine whether the war effort is sustainable in the long run.

"I've been asking not only General McChrystal, but all of our commanders who are familiar with the situation, as well as our civilian folks on the ground, a lot of questions," Obama said when describing his war review. "I want to make sure that we have tested all the assumptions we're making before we send young men and women into harm's way."

It's also notable that while this deliberation has evolved, a president just 10 months on the job has gotten a much more direct look at the human cost of war, which has undoubtedly affected his thinking.
At Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, he greeted the remains of soldiers killed in Afghanistan.
At Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, he saw troops grievously injured in war.
At Fort Hood in Texas, he consoled the families of soldiers shot dead, allegedly by one of their own.
Even on Thursday, during his brief stop at Elmendorf, Obama was to meet privately with the family of a soldier who was killed in Afghanistan.

Before his Fort Hood trip this week, Obama said the visit "absolutely has an impact because it reminds me of the costs involved. It reminds me that these aren't abstractions."

As for the increasingly anxious American people, Obama said in late September: "I understand the public's weariness of this war, given that it comes on top of weariness about the war in Iraq."
His response: "I would expect that the public would ask some very tough questions. That's exactly what I'm doing, is asking some very tough questions."

What a terrible mistake America made in electing this man-child.

#156 | POSTED BY KISSNTELL AT 2009-11-12 09:33 PM

You know that blacks would consider that a racist thing to say don'tcha rushbo? Obviously a sneaky way to call our black potus a "boy".

A mind is a terrible thing to waste and listening to and regurgitating the fk up racist bullshit spewed by a multimillionaire drug addict is no way to go thru life. Start thinking for yourself for a change bud.

Rush Limbaugh continued to use his very heated rhetoric when criticizing President Obama. During a rant in which he Limbaugh accused senior White House adviser Valerie Jarrett of unfairly pressuring the Chamber of Commerce, the controversial radio host slammed Obama as "this little boy, this little man-child president whose primary job, if you will, in life has been leisure.

I don't personally know a single military man or woman that approves of our coward-in-chief.

#155 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM AT 2009-11-12 08:35 PM

That so?

Interesting since Obama got 44% of the military vote.

You wouldn't be bullshittin' us wouldja?

That so?

Interesting since Obama got 44% of the military vote.

Interesting that you think a vote=approval. I've cast many votes in my life for people of whom I did not approve simply because they were the lesser of the evils.

At any rate, what does 44% military vote for Obama have to do with Jim not personally knowing a military person who approves of the Messiah? I don't know any who approve of him either.

We all realize that you are personal friends with John Glenn, Max Cleland and John Kerry and have stood side by side with them, (your own admission) but not everyone has the kind of friends you do. LOL

Ok, Goatman,

Whatever you say. I'm sure you know better than everyone else that it's impossible for anyone in the military to "approve" of Obama. And everyone knows, no military people vote dem and they all hated Kerry.
I just don't know how they got 44% (08) and 41% (04). Must not have counted the votes right.

And we all know how appreciative the troops were of that plastic turkey from lilaWol, eh? And the lack of armor, equipment, and a basic plan for AFTER the invasion, not to mention the "mission accomplished" and "bring em on" schtick. And they have really, really enjoyed the 3-4 deployments into a no win senario occupation, basically as a target, some even loved it so much they were STOPLOSSED beyond their discharge dates.

Oh, and you left out Al Gore. He and i served at Bien Hoa, Long Bihn and travelled the Quan Loi Trail up to Tay Nihn near Cambodia during the same years.

I'm sure you know better than everyone else that it's impossible for anyone in the military to "approve" of Obama.

???

I never said that, liar.

And everyone knows, no military people vote dem and they all hated Kerry.

???

They do? I didn't know that.

And we all know how appreciative the troops were of that plastic turkey from lilaWol, eh? And the lack of armor, equipment, and a basic plan for AFTER the invasion, not to mention the "mission accomplished" and "bring em on" schtick. And they have really, really enjoyed the 3-4 deployments into a no win senario occupation, basically as a target, some even loved it so much they were STOPLOSSED beyond their discharge dates.

???

We do know that? I didn't. In fact, I heard just the opposite. I heard they hated those things. What news source do you use?

Oh, and you left out Al Gore. He and i served at Bien Hoa, Long Bihn and travelled the Quan Loi Trail up to Tay Nihn near Cambodia during the same years.

Al Gore never served in vietnam, liar. You can't add him to your other list of "personal friends" that you have "stood side by side" with, liar.

???

???

???

???

#162 | Posted by goat???

#162 | Posted by goat???

The dull one is on top of his game tonight!

#164 | Posted by goatman

???

LOL

Consider post 164 retracted.

Do your last word thing, null. You are too stoned to present a challenge to me tonight -- as usual. LOL

#167 | Posted by goatman

???

LOL

#166 | Posted by Alexandrite

Indeed! LOL

BTW, alex -- I'm still waiting to see that link that says my rig is not enviornmentally friendly as you implied yesterday. Or was that post just another shameless display of your obsession with me as I surmised?

I figure the latter. LOL

Goat???'s favorite 60s group...

Hey goatman...

You claim to be an 'environmentalist' but WORK ON AN OIL RIG.

The cognitive dissonance is stunning, to say the least.

"Al Gore never served in vietnam, liar."

Really, goat?

The links I've researched suggest the exact opposite.

Al Gore never served in vietnam, liar.

#162 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-12 11:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Um...Yes he did. Not only that, but he enlisted instead of being drafted.

"Liar"

The cognitive dissonance is stunning, to say the least.

In what way? Excluding power generation, my rig has a lower impact on he environment than your house. Of course without rigs like mine, you or most any environmentalist wouldn't be able to add your share of pollution to the world. What a fucking hypocrite. LOL

I guess if someone uses public transportation, electrical power, or consumes products that were transported by rail or truck, they can't be an environmentalist.

Gee, aren't many around are there? LOL

You sure miss Tadowe beating up on you everynight, don't you, alex? Has your obsession with me grown to the proportion to the one you had with Tadowe? IOW, have you created an urban dictionary entry for me yet? LOL.

The links I've researched suggest the exact opposite.

My bad. He was indeed a journalist from January to May 1971 there.

August 1969: Enlisted at the Newark, New Jersey recruiting office.
August to October 1969: 8 weeks of basic training at Fort Dix, New Jersey
Late October 1969 to December 1970: Fort Rucker, Alabama, on-the-job occupational training at the Army Flier newspaper.
January 1971 to May 1971: field reporter in Vietnam, part of the 20th Engineer Brigade, stationed primarily at Bien Hoa Air Base near Saigon.
May 24, 1971: Discharged, after granting of routine early discharge request, as part of general troop reductions.

My bad(always hated that statement)

You're full of shit, goatman.

My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days. When a hurricane knocks over my house it doesn't continue to rape the environment for weeks or even years afterward.

My home does not pollute the air to the equivalent of thousands of cars, nor does itleave metric tons of metal chips, fluids and toxins in the ocean either.

You're an idiot. An Environmentalist working on an oil rig. Sorry for repeating myself there.

Excluding power generation

Gosh, I wonder why you'd make that distinction. LOL.

Using your logic, if I turn off all the lights in my house forever, my carbon footprint goes away almost completely. Of course, I'm NOT going to do that anymore than your oil rig is going to "exclude power generation" am I?

Dishonest little "environmentalist".

My bad(always hated that statement)

Is mea culpa better?

Personally, I hate:

"Last time I checked"
"Mother's basement"
"Nazi" (unless referring to a Nazi)
"cognitive dissonance" (people who have heard and repeat that one think they are so cool)
"Apropos" (and it's almost always used incorrectly)
Anything in a non-Latin script that someone dragged over from Babelfish
"Wahmbulance"

"cognitive dissonance" (people who have heard and repeat that one think they are so cool)

Wah. Truth hurts, "environmentalist".

What's really annoying is when someone claims "projection" at every turn like some sort of armchair psychologist. Know any douchebags like that, goatman?

Goatman's response: "???"

My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days.

Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling. Care to make up anything else? This is really amusing.

There is 10x more natural seepage of oil in the GoM than the entire drilling and prodution fleet.

My home does not pollute the air to the equivalent of thousands of cars,

Neither does my rig. It brings you the oil, but it is you, alex, who chooses to turn on the ignition in your car and pollute the air. Do you enjoy being a hypocrite? Or are you just really stupid and don't get it? LOL

You're an idiot. An Environmentalist working on an oil rig.

There are no environmentalists, then. Show me one person in this country who does not benfit from petroleum products. Just one.

"I hate big oil" she says as she fires up the car to go to the anti-petroleum industry rally. LOL

BTW, I am used to your silly boyd-like game of assigning false positions to me. I know for a fact I am an environmentalist. You telling me otherwise based simply on how I make my income is the height of arrogance to say the least. But it is part of your schtick, and people like you and boyd who employ it say more about yourselves than you do me.

Any other false positions you want to assign to me tonight, alex?

Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling.

I could use your "logic" and just call you a "liar", goatman. But I know you're just an ignorant college dropout dumb ass.

Go google "oil rig burns", or "oil rig spill" or remmeber that 100+ oil rigs got trashed by hurricane katrina and spilled crap into the water.

Dishonest little "environmentalist".

Oh yeah? Well you are a dishonest poopy eater. Neener, neener, neener.

LOL

Know any douchebags like that, goatman?

No

...with a total of 146 oil spills recorded.

Do you know what MMS considers an oil spill alex? I didn't think so. One liter or more going overboard.

If it bugs you so much, why do you use petroleum products, hypocrite? If you and everyone stops using them, the drilling companies will go away. They provide you the product. You choose to pollute the envionment with it.

Hypocrite.

Stop using petroleum products, then get back with me on polluting rigs, alex. LOL

she says as she fires up the car

I'm a man, jerkoff.

There's a big difference between being forced to use certain products to survive in the modern world, and doing your best to lower your carbon footprint...

AND WORKING ON A FUCKING OIL RIG, THEN LYING ABOUT SPILLS NEVER HAPPENING. This is not trying your best, nor does it make you an environmentalist. Not even close. You do the job to get paid, then you apologize for it by lying like a fucking whore.

BTW If my car crashes on the highway, it doesn't spill 7,300 barrels of crude into the ocean, dipshit. Using resources is one thing, lying about potential damage and claiming to be an environmentalist is quite another.

How refreshing to have a President looking for an 'exit strategy' and who reads history books. Hopefully the 8 years of non-management in Afghanistan will amount to something for the sacrifices everyone who was in the 'forgotten war' made.

As a result of both storms, a total volume of 17,652 barrels (or roughly three-quarters of a million gallons) of total petroleum products, of which 13,137 barrels were crude oil and condensate, was spilled from platforms, rigs and pipelines. 4,514 barrels were refined products from platforms and rigs.

About 1/10 the amount that naturally seeps out.

I remember seeing tar balls on the beach in Galveston when I was a kid. This was before offshore drilling there. I wonder where it came from? I still see them in Corpus Christi even though there aren't any drilling platforms in that part of the GoM.

If it bugs you so much, why do you use petroleum products, hypocrite?

I don't have a choice right now, as most people don't. The very industry you work for has done everything in their power to keep the US dependent on their product. All I can do is limit the damage my actions cause, and try to find alternative methods occasionally.

You, on the other hand, go well out of your way to claiming some sort of environmentalist, when you're the first whore in line sucking off a guy with herpes, who then spreads the herpes to everyone else.

The only "green" in the goatman equation is the money he's making.

About 1/10 the amount that naturally seeps out.

Use a dictionary and find the definition of "seeps", and how it differs from "spills".

I'll give you a hint. Seep is slow and can be absorbed more easily into the environment. Spill is all at once.

You're a completely dishonest creep.

I'm a man, jerkoff.

Sorry. Your handle sounds very feminine with the diminuitive suffix "ite".

There's a big difference between being forced to use certain products...

Oh, the "But I am forced to pollute" argument. That one is one of my faves.

AND WORKING ON A FUCKING OIL RIG, THEN LYING ABOUT SPILLS NEVER HAPPENING.

Please referenced the post where I said that, liar?

dipshit

You only show your own insecurity in your argument when every reply includes childish name calling, alex. But even without it, your argument is pretty much non-existent since you suck at that oil tit then bitch about it. They call that "Hypocrisy".

And don't forget -- please produce the post where I said oil spills never happen, or be a man (LOL) ad admit you lied.

Goatman

You should read up on gemstones. Alexandrite is one of the cooler ones out there.

Seep is slow and can be absorbed more easily into the environment.

I guess that explains the tar balls on the beach.

I told you what a "spill" is to MMS, alex.

You're a completely dishonest creep.

Thank you, alex. I'm really getting you wound up, aren't I? You are so easily manipulable. LOL

The only "green" in the goatman equation is the money he's making.

Shifting between assigning false positions and name calling. Good stuff, alex. LOL

You should read up on gemstones. Alexandrite is one of the cooler ones out there.

I never heard of it. But I'm not a jewelry person. I own no gemstones except for a small diamond in a 4" Buck Knife I got as a service award when I worked for Sprint.

Hey, goatman. You said you were an enviro guy. That makes you "green" sweetheart.

since you suck at that oil tit then bitch about it.
I do what I can to limit it. More than can be said for you, working on an oil rig. Of course, I never claimed to be an environmentalist, that was you.

And it's laughable.

Sorry. Your handle sounds very feminine with the diminuitive suffix "ite".

You've been told 100 times I'm a guy, and not just by me, so quit lying. As for the origin of the name, one of the female friends picked it, since I was called a "conservative" on some websites, and a "liberal" on others. Alexandrites color changes depending on the light its exposed to, and it was her birth stone, so she suggested the handle.

I obliged.

I'm really getting you wound up, aren't I? Sorry to disappoint you, troll, but my heart rate isn't even up. In fact, I'm enjoying you making an ass of yourself.

Nice shitty apology for calling someone a liar over the gore thing, btw.

I'm done fucking you in ass for tonight. Later, goat.

I do what I can to limit it. More than can be said for you, working on an oil rig.

I'll say it again: I supply the product. You choose to burn it and pollute the world with it. If you and everyone else didn't make that choice, there would be no drilling.

Difficult concept for you to grasp, alex? LOL

You said you were an enviro guy. That makes you "green" sweetheart.

Never having heard that term, I don't know what a green sweetheart is, so I'll take your word for it.

... so quit lying.

???

What lie? It does indeed sound feminine even if you told me a million times it's not.

Red natural Alexandrite looks like amethyst. 1 Ct high quality can go for much more than diamonds.

As for the origin of the name, one of the female friends picked it, since I was called a "conservative" on some websites, and a "liberal" on others

LOL And you've chastised me in the past when I've said my co-workers call me liberal. I guess you are the only person who can be considered two different ideologies by two different people or groups, right?

Nice shitty apology for calling someone a liar over the gore thing, btw.

Speaking of lies (or apologies), I'm still waiting for you to reference the post where I said "spills never happen" as you claim.

Then get back to me about shitty apologies. LOL

LOL And you've chastised me in the past when I've said my co-workers call me liberal. I guess you are the only person who can be considered two different ideologies by two different people or groups, right?

Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:06 AM | Reply

I never attacked or trolled only one group of people, goat.

That's your one trick, pony.

spills never happen

You know exactly where it was said. You're waiting for me to quote it so you can play a semantics game because I referenced "ALL" marine life dying.

The point was so simple even you should understand it: WHen my house gets destroyed it doesn't spill oil into the ocean.

You claimed Offshore rigs never "do that" implying that they don't spill or kill marine life or catch fire and burn.

They do. My mistake was saying "ALL" in that sentence.

You're playing games and lying. Again. I'm willing to bet anyone who reads the exchange (or knows you) is aware of it.

I never attacked or trolled only one group of people, goat.

Nor I. I guess you are always sick the days I go after the evangalists, creationists, and abortionists. How conveeeeeeeenient. LOL

What lie? It does indeed sound feminine even if you told me a million times it's not.

Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:04 AM | Reply

Because no matter how many times you are told, you always conveniently "forget", but only when you're attacking me.

You NEVER refer to me as a chick when we're getting along, or agreeing on a subject.

Again, you're a lying creep and and I'm fairly certain everyone knows it.

Again, you're a lying creep and and I'm fairly certain everyone knows it.

LOL

Speaking of "lying creeps", please reference the post where I said there were no oil spills as you claimed I said?

You are too easy, alex. You set yourself up so well for me to knock back down. I love watching you get wound up.

I guess you are always sick the days I go after the evangalists, creationists, and abortionists. How conveeeeeeeenient. LOL

#207 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, but you only attack lefty POSTERS. You can say whatever you want about people outside of here, goat...but you'll be judged on ideology by who your consistent (and constant) targets are.

They are lefties. Every single poster on this board you fuck with is a left winger. So the claims of being so liberal while ALWAYS attacking liberals are gonna fall on deaf ears.
YAV explained it to you, it's be reposted several times, so don't feign ignorance on the subject.

Go troll an abortionist here ONE TIME, and you might procure a shred of credibility.

You're waiting for me to quote it so you can play a semantics game because I referenced "ALL" marine life dying.

Take out the word "all" and it's still a lie, alex.

Speaking of "lying creeps", please reference the post where I said there were no oil spills as you claimed I said?

I've already addressed it, and you know what # the original post was.

You're being dishonest again. Seems to come easy for you, college drop out.

Ah, but you only attack lefty POSTERS

I get the biggest bang for the buck from them. They are by far the most hysterical and most easily wound up.

Haven't I explained this before? LOL

Every single poster on this board you fuck with is a left winger.

???

Chapel is a leftwinger? Takeitez is a leftwinger? Who would've known? I've "attacked" both of them.

You were saying something about "lying creeps"? Time to pull the "semantics" card again in your perpetually weak effort to justify yourself. LOL

Take out the word "all" and it's still a lie, alex.

#211 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Are you telling me no oil rig has ever spilled anything? Caught fire? Slimed marine life and killed it?

Perhaps not the rig YOU'RE on, but it's a huge risk you take during every single day of hurricane season. So any "green" methods on the actual rig are cosmetic and frigging joke. It's like putting nerf padding around a nuclear warhead.

Seems to come easy for you, college drop out.

ooooh. He's getting desperate. The "college dropout" line, LOL

Tell me, alex, what does a college graduate have that I don't (other than the Scarecrow-like diploma)?

Who would've known? I've "attacked" both of them.

Who's playing semantics now?

You know exactly what I'm talking about. No way in hell do you troll righties. Ever. Maybe you disagree, but you don't follow them thread to thread like a miserable lonely fuck.

Not like you do with any left wingers.

Are you telling me no oil rig has ever spilled anything? Caught fire? Slimed marine life and killed it?

I don't recall having said that.

what does a college graduate have that I don't

Enough self respect and emotional security to not be proud of trolling and playing semantics games non-stop.

Too bad astronomy goatman is no where to be found anymore. He figured out that irritating people that made better life choices than him(ie ones he regrets not making) was more fun, and a balm for a wounded psyche, than actually adding anything relevant or enlightening to a discussion. I miss the old goatman. He seemed like a college grad. He was fun.

Troll goatman is a WOB.

ALEX: "My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days."

GOAT- "Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling."

Really?

What does the suffix -ite mean?
In: Prefixes Suffixes and Root Words [Edit categories]

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"-ite" (in the non-chemical sense) means "one connected with" or "one descended from."

This definition only applies to its use as a suffix (added to the end of a word to form a new word) not simply as a string of letters in words such as site, mite, etc.

Some examples of words that use the -ite suffix:

-Isrealite
-Jacobite
-Luddite

It is often used to refer to adherents to a particular belief or person. One might, for example, call a supporter of Hillary Clinton a "Clintonite."

Perhaps not the rig YOU'RE on, but it's a huge risk you take during every single day of hurricane season.

If it bugs you, stop using oil.

Troll goatman is a WOB.

Your name calling would be more realistic if followed by "neener, neener, neener", alex. LOL That might actually hurt my feelings then.

Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling.

So no rig in history ever spilled oil, caught on fire, or killed marine life, goatman?

You were saying?

(I think I'll play one of alex's cards here)

Semantics! Semantics! You know what I mean!

LOL

(or are you the only one allowed to play the "semantics" card, alex? )

As much fun as I am having playing cat to your mouse, I have to go fix some stuff so that you have more oil to pollute he world with and blame on me.

You just gotsa love a good hypocrite.

Later, alex. Why don't you go write an urban dictionary entry about me while I'm gone? LOL

As much fun as I am having playing cat to your mouse, I have to go fix some stuff so that you have more oil to pollute he world with and blame on me.

Translation: I got caught being dishonest, so now I must leave.

I'll ask again, liar:

"So no rig in history ever spilled oil, caught on fire, or killed marine life, goatman?

#225 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2009-11-13 01:37 AM | Reply | Flag: "

So no rig in history ever spilled oil, caught on fire, or killed marine life, goatman?

Here's that very difficult concept again, alex -- if it bugs you, don't use petroleum products, hypocrite.

"Tell me, alex, what does a college graduate have that I don't"

In most cases, college graduates don't act like high school seniors 'trolling liberals for fun' and such.

My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days.

#177 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2009-11-13 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling. Care to make up anything else? This is really amusing.

#181 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 12:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

You know exactly where it was said. You're waiting for me to quote it so you can play a semantics game because I referenced "ALL" marine life dying.

#206 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2009-11-13 01:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Take out the word "all" and it's still a lie, alex.

#211 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

You got caught. You refuse to explain how it is a lie, and refuse to admit that oil rigs have caught fire, spilled oil, and killed marine life. Instead you call me names and leave.

Here's that very difficult concept again, alex -- if it bugs you, don't use petroleum products, hypocrite.

#228 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Answer the question.

"So no rig in history ever spilled oil, caught on fire, or killed marine life, goatman?"

Because I made THAT statement and you said I LIED, even taking out the word "all."

So tell me how I lied, or just admit you misspoke and I'll drop it. That simple.

I thought so, goat.

LOTS of spills - platforms and drilling rigs alike according to your links, Alex.

In most cases, college graduates don't act like high school seniors 'trolling liberals for fun' and such.

???

There have been studies on this? Docsarvis and montecore are two of the bigger trolls here and they both claim to have college degrees.

On what do you base your claim, timex?

Instead you call me names and leave.

LOL

That's rich, alex. Count how many names you called me. And I called you a hypocrite -- which is true. You bitch about oil rigs, yet use their products.

This is one of your funnier posts tonight. LOL

"So no rig in history ever spilled oil, caught on fire, or killed marine life, goatman?"

"There have been studies on this? "

???

So tell me how I lied,

OK. When you admit you lied, I will.

Either we both lied or we both get to play the "semantics" card. I don't do different rules for different people, alex. Sorry.

You bitch about oil rigs, yet use their products.

So if you bitch about air quality, you should just hold your breath?

Good luck living in the modern world without using SOME petroleum products, goat. Your employers have gone to great lengths to make that the reality.

LOTS of spills

And yet, they amount to 1/10 what is seeped naturally -- at least in American waters which MMS is responsible for.

If it bugs you, don't use the product. If the demand goes away, so will the drilling.

I thought so, goat.

You thought so what, alex?

OK. When you admit you lied, I will.

What did I lie about? Explain it to me. I made a statement: "My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days."

You said I lied, now you refuse to tell me how this is so.

Puss.

So if you bitch about air quality, you should just hold your breath?

Not a very good idea. You would die. People can live without petroleum. Sure, you'll have to give up a lot, but your g'g'grandparents did it.

So admit that you like the electricity, the cars, the airlines, the warm house and are not willing to give them up. But don't say it then curse the very industry that makes it possible for you or say that someone is not an envrionmentalist because they work on electronic equipment that makes it possible.

We couldn't do our jobs without the helicopters who bring us to the rig. So I guess people who work for Sikorsky can't be environmentalists. WE can't do our job without satellite comms to the rig. So I guess people who support those systems can't be environmentalists. We can't do our job without computers. So I guess everyone who works for Bill Gates can't be an envrionmentalist

Amazing, if primitive, thought process you have, alex.

Your employers have gone to great lengths to make that the reality.

???

My employer drills holes in the ground. That's all they do.

My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days.

#177 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2009-11-13 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Neither does my rig, nor any other in the history of offshore drilling. Care to make up anything else? This is really amusing.

#181 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 12:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

You know exactly where it was said. You're waiting for me to quote it so you can play a semantics game because I referenced "ALL" marine life dying.

#206 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2009-11-13 01:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Take out the word "all" and it's still a lie, alex.

#211 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

I gave you an out with the "misspoke" post. We could have dropped this and forgotten about it, but frankly, I'm tired of you calling me a liar when it is obvious I did not lie in that statement. I've proven it with links, and you refuse to substantiate any of your opinions disguised as facts.

Sack up, or STFU.

You said I lied, now you refuse to tell me how this is so.

I didn't lie. YOu are getting caught up in semantics

(If I can't use that card, but you can -- just let me know we are playing by different rules, alex)

Puss

You forot the "neener, neener, neener" so you could really make me cry. LOL

Amazing, if primitive, thought process you have, alex.

#243 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 02:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, I call people liars then refuse to explain why, big coward that I am.

Oh wait, that's you.

Again: You claimed I lied.

Prove it.

Sack up, or STFU.

I'll never STFU. I have too good of a time getting under your skin.

You claimed I lied.

Prove it.

You claimed I lied.

Prove it.

Your employers have gone to great lengths to make that the reality

Prove it yourself. Look up what Pride drilling does. They drill holes. Period. They don't go to any length whatsoever to make sure people are hooked on oil. Someone tells us, "Drill us a 19,000 foot hole at lat xxx long xxx" and we do it.

Enough self respect and emotional security to not be proud of trolling and playing semantics games non-stop.

So you are not a college grad either, then alex?

Prove it yourself.

That's not the assertion in question, so don't change the subject.

You said I lied in my statement. I asked you to prove it, and you steadfastly refuse.

They don't go to any length whatsoever to make sure people are hooked on oil.

You work for the oil industry, whether you'll admit it or not, and they HAVE gone to great lengths to keep their product on our shelves, so to speak.

Now, back to the original subject, mr deflector:

You claimed I lied.

Prove it already. If you can't you should change your name to goatboy, because a man would've answered my question ages ago.

And if he couldn't answer the question, a MAN would've apologized for the false accusation.

If I'm lying in my statement: "My house doesn't spill into the ocean and kill all the marine life, then catch fire and burn for days."

Take out the word "all" and it's still a lie, alex.

#211 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Prove this.

I'll never STFU.

...
#250 | Posted by goatman

Face it folks, that's probably true, though he once promised to leave and even posted a thread about his monumental indecision.

So here we are again with the "yes you did" and "no I didn't" marathon.

Last time it was Goat and Bob.

This time it's Goat and Alex.

Goatman, you appear to be the common denominator in this waste of bandwidth.

I used to look forward to you coming back to the rig because your posts always elevated the conversations.

But now they're just redundant and superfluous drivel.

Childish behavior . . . both of you. Not at all becoming to grown men, both of whom are capable of better.

twinpac-

The guy called me a liar, now he refuses to explain how that is true.

IT IS childish for me to keep badgering him about it, but I am amazed at what a shallow gutless little stool he's been tonight. Especially when i know he's capable of so much more.

I'm really gutsick of people running around calling other posters liars and then not backing their shit up, or refusing to retract statements when proven wrong by credible links. If I wanted that kind of bullshit in my life I'd watch cable news.

I see Punk Boy has hijacked another thread and made it all about him.

"Last time it was Goat and Bob.

This time it's Goat and Alex."

Actually Goat v. Bob got bumped in favor of Goat v. Woke. Apparently Bob got sensible and decided to ignore Goat???.

Guess I spoke too soon. lol

I asked you to prove it, and you steadfastly refuse.

No -- I played the "semantics" card just like you did to get out of a lie.

Just admit you want me to play by different rules, alex. You steadfastly refuse to do so.

Face it folks, that's probably true, though he once promised to leave and even posted a thread about his monumental indecision.

Isn't it nice to be an American and reserve the right to change your mind?

" your posts always elevated the conversations. "

What? When in the fuck was that? Put down the bong!

Alexandrite

I wouldn't waste my time 'debating' him anymore. Goatman's stated goal: To bait 'thin skinned liberals' only for the sake of argument. An intentional conundrum that goes on night after night with poster after poster. Sad, really.

Goatman, you appear to be the common denominator in this waste of bandwidth.

Of course. A good puppeteer doesn't use the same marionette every time.

The guy called me a liar, now he refuses to explain how that is true.

Just s you refuse to explain why you can use the 'semantics' card to dismiss your lies, but I can't.

If you weren't a grown man it wouldn't be so pitiful to observe.

Liar is a pretty heavy word to be tossing around,Goatman.Why one could get a hernia doing that.

Sounds like you're up and around now,lol.
good for you

just like you did to get out of a lie.

Which would be..?

I'm not going to get into another 200 post fight with you, I'm just going to ask ONCE. What lie?

Answer it or don't. It's your credibility.

I see Punk Boy has hijacked another thread and made it all about him.

I guess you didn't notice that alex is half of the conversation, bOoB, and that he was the one who started it between us two. But then again, you don't even notice a shadow on a cloud, so why am I surprised that the full truth eludes you once again? LOL

Goatman's stated goal: To bait 'thin skinned liberals' only for the sake of argument. An intentional conundrum that goes on night after night with poster after poster. Sad, really.

Maybe, like bOoB, you need to scroll up and see who went after whom first, timex. Then go back yesterday and see who went after whom first (though that exchange didn't last long)

Yet you blame me and poor alex the innocent is the victim.

Yes, as you say: Sad really that you fail to see the whole picture and focus on me

If you weren't a grown man it wouldn't be so pitiful to observe.

I presume you are talking to alex since he initiated this as he did last night, right timex?

Answer it or don't. It's your credibility.

I didn't lie. You are getting caught up in semantics. I keep telling you that.

"Maybe, like bOoB, you need to scroll up and see who went after whom first, timex."

And if you do that, timex, you lose. You will have been dragged into the muck. Like Alex. For God's sakes man! Don't do it!

Liar is a pretty heavy word to be tossing around,Goatman.

And bruce jumps on the "goatman is evil, alex is an innocent babe" bandwagon. If you'll notice, bruce it is alex who has been throwing the "liar" word around the last several posts, not I. Yes I did too, but why you don't acknowldegde him doing it and only me, I have no idea.

Since you are all lefties, I can only assume party over the full truth.

I didn't lie. You are getting caught up in semantics. I keep telling you that.

#274 | Posted by goatman at 2009-11-13 03:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fine. You accused me a lying and refuse to back it up. This is the last conversation I will have with you. On any subject. Ever.

For God's sakes man! Don't do it!

Translation: "Ignore the truth! Ignore the truth!"

LOL

#166 | Posted by Alexandrite

what a bastard,lol

Nullifidian, bruceaz. Spare yourself the hour I wasted. Go elsewhere.

Goodnight.

This is the last conversation I will have with you. On any subject. Ever.

So level playing fields freak you out? you can use the semantics card, but I can't?

Well, I hope you keep your promise! I like equal rules whereas you clearly admit you do not.

Alex starts shit (scroll up if you don't believe me) and leaves crying. LOL

"This is the last conversation I will have with you. On any subject. Ever."

And the Drudge community roars with approval...

Since you are all lefties

Who says I'm a lefty,I never said I'm a lefty,prove I'm a lefty.

See how easy it is

ALEX

The word "liar" is tossed around here like peanuts at Monkey Jungle.

It means absolutely nothing except to the monkey.

So stop being the "monkey" and definitely stop taking other people opinions as the gospel.

You've both been on this site a long time. We all know who and what you are. The opinions of an anonymous poster on an irrelevant blog, by all rights, shouldn't have any affect on either one of you.

This kind of stuff gets way too personal and way too off topic.

Men?

Hardly!

Tall children is a more apt description for what you two do.

Jus' sayin'

Tall children is a more apt description for what you two do.

I acted like an ass in this thread.

If you think I'm that way all the time, you're entitled to your opinion.

"(scroll up if you don't believe me)"

"Scrolling up" is like stepping into quicksand on a thread PettyGoat is on.

ALEX

I acted like an ass in this thread.

If you think I'm that way all the time, you're entitled to your opinion.

I don't think either of you are asses. Just "tall children" when your ego takes charge of your common sense.

Like in these ridiculous arguments, for example.

Just "tall children" when your ego takes charge of your common sense.

You've just described every human being on Earth.

"I don't think either of you are asses."

Well I agree with half of that.

Sorry. I don't have access to all the classified information that many Drudge posters obviously have access to. But I will say I don't particularly trust Karzai. And frankly, simply sending more troops to support a government that will never survive on its own is a rather pointless ordeal.

And frankly, simply sending more troops to support a government that will never survive on its own is a rather pointless ordeal.

Exactly.

And frankly, simply sending more troops to support a government that will never survive on its own is a rather pointless ordeal.

Exactly.

Hmmm. Musta been the French during our revolutionary war?

The french had 40K of their troops supporting the colonies ?

SYCOPHANT

"And frankly, simply sending more troops to support a government that will never survive on its own is a rather pointless ordeal.

Interesting you should say that.

In one short synopsis you've described exactly what the deliberations in D.C. are all about.

I heartily agree.

Hats off and kudos to Sycophant.

40k or whatever......here we are....

Who says I'm a lefty,I never said I'm a lefty,prove I'm a lefty.

I just went to your user page and most of your opinions and posts lean left. Proof? at drudge.com/user/bruceaz. But even if you are not, you clearly ignore alex's charges of "liar" and focus on mine. Why is that, bruce?

See how easy it is

Indeed it was

Scrolling up" is like stepping into quicksand on a thread PettyGoat is on.

#287 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-11-13 03:36 AM | Reply | Flag: Doesn't want the truth to be known

Musta been the French during our revolutionary war?

They were just fucking with the British,Bet they didn't feel the same when Haiti got their independence a few years later.It wasn't the Haiti we know today,it was the richest colony in the west Indies.

I just went to your user page and most of your opinions and posts lean left.

I just read a few pages of my posts too,your opinion matches your imagination.

Alex called you a liar.Your al gore"liar"post really took the cake though,and alex hadn't even posted on this thread at that time.

Chasing him from another thread?Well that would make you a troll.

GOATMAN

Doesn't want the truth to be known

Don't you get it Goat.

This thread will disappear and nobody will care.

NOBODY

There's no need to belabor the point.

There wasn't in the beginning and there isn't at the end.

There's no need to belabor the point.

You are right, but sometimes it's hard to sit by and have someone call you a liar and tell you what you are and what you aren't. Regardless of what know-it-all alex thinks he knows, I am indeed an envionmentalist. I go to great pains to conserve our resources. To be told otherwise by some arrogant know-it-all invites criticism and belaborment.

Oh well, I guess everyone knows alex's schtick by now and takes what he says with a grain of salt. They don't need me to point out that he is once again assigning false positions. So you are right - what's the point in belaboring he point?

Obama is the guy who voted "Present" how many times? Does it surprize anyone that he cannot make a decision?

Cripe he has done this on healthcare as well. Leave it to someone else.

He needs to go to the Wizard and get a set of balls. Then come back and try to start actually leading our country.

I also feel that anyone who really wants to know the truth instead of drawing their own foregone conclusions will go back and see who threw the first stone -- both today and yesterday.

Who threw the first stone. Who did all the name calling. Who lied and assigned false positions and tells me what I am and am not based simply on my line of work as an ET.

Poor innocent, blameless alex. Right. Everything is the fault of the big bad goatman LOL

Sorry to belabor the point, but alex's sycophants really need to step back and look at the full picture of whom they defend

I wouldn't waste my time 'debating' him anymore. Goatman's stated goal: To bait 'thin skinned liberals' only for the sake of argument.

Agreed.

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Failtroll is FAIL.

Best thing to do with a troll when yer not ignoring them actively is to remember to never talk to them directly.

Simply talk about them with someone else.

Like Spud is doing now.

Drives 'em crazy.

Well, crazier, really.

Be Well.

GOATMAN

There's not a doubt in my mind that you do everything you can to protect the environment. Most of us who have been awake the past few years do the same. I'm also sure that oil rigs everywhere are sensitive to causing as little harm as possible.

The bone of contention in that hopeless argument was that you should quit your job if you really practiced what you preach.

That argument, on it's face, was ridiculous. Nobody is going to quit their job just to make a point on a liteweight blog.

If you felt the need to defend your position, to offset being called a liar, simply explain (not that it's really anybody's business) what you DO do in your everyday life to protect the environment.

We cannot possibly eliminate all the petroleum based products in our life . . . at least not singlehandedly . . . but there's lots most of us do to help.

I doubt if you are the exception.

It's so much easier to keep conversations civil and positive than it is to deal with negative accusations.

There's usually common ground to be found among us.

All in the interest of eliminating pollution from this blog, of course.

The rigs go to absurd extremes to protect the environment. Still, there are those who haven't a clue about this and claim that offshore drilling is destroying it.

Did you know we actually capture and treat all our rainwater? Anything that makes a sheen on the water (as little as a few drops of oil will do this) has to be reported to MMS. We even treat our sewage which is biodegradable of course. In fact, it is these extremes that have been helping to raise the price of oil.

We just spent $2.1 on monitoring systems for our 7 diesel engines to make them perform better even though they were already well within EPA specs.

Yet there are know it alls who say we are destroying the environment without even trying to understand what really goes on.

It's wearisome.

A am no more a shill for oil than I was a shill for big meds when I plied my trade in a hospital or a shill for telecom when I plied my trade for sprint. It is absolutely absurd to think that I would give up my environomental idealisms simply because I changed the industry I choose to ply my trade with. It's difficult to not comment on such absurdity.

$2.1 = $2.1million

Something else we do when drilling that I find odd: The cuttings are of course rock. Yet they bring them to the surface and tote them to the shore instead of leaving them on the seabed. There is no life on the seabed at 7,000 ft, so I don't see how rocks hurt. Yet they do it.

We are not even allowed to dump a cup of cold coffee over the side. I saw a guy get fired for flicking a cigarette butt overboard. MMS pulls surprise inspections at least every 60 days. Any rag with even a spot of oil is put into special DOT drums and taken ashore. All trash is separated into proper recyclables.

Even leaks in the riser of our drilling mud (which is basically a ground clay mixed with water) mandates pulling up riser, which at 7,000 feet takes about 36 hours (and of course 36 hours to get it back down. This of course doesn't include time to find the source of the leak) . With a day rate of $480,000, you can see how much it costs -- easily $1.5 million so that clay doesn't get into the seawater.

I laugh when I hear people like alex say how environmentally dangerous offshore drilling rigs are. They need to do a little research. Yes, you get your occaisional drunken captain who crashes his ship, but to pretend these events are the norm are absurd.

And no, I'm not shilling. (I don't need to. Everyone buys oil) I'm simply putting the facts out there for those too lazy to do the research themselves.

Must be wearisome for the left to see race in EVERYTHING that is said about Obama. Must Keep you up at night trying to track down every little thing you can find that evokes race (Woke - #157)

Many men are such man-child creatures of all races. Get over your race consciousness, Woke, and start to look at people as people, not for their ethnicity, race, gender, etc. and you will find life so much better because your rationale won't be clouded by your own racism.

I don't see Obama as a black man, I see him as my President and he is a major f--- up.

I don't see Obama as a black man, I see him as my President and he is a major f--- up.

Me too. I despise his white half as much as his black half.

I'm assuming it's now okay to proceed beyond the Hell-I-Ain't-No-Racist-Why-Do-
You-Folks-Have-To-Talk-About-
Race bilateral fluffing session and return to the topic at hand: "Obama Rejects Afghan War Options."

Just to set the record straight about Al Gore's military service and how, like mccain, cleland and kerry, the right wing chickenhawks also tried to denigrate his service, as we have seen on this very thread.....it's what rwrs do:

Yet there is no evidence that Mr. Gore sought special treatment, or that the extra notice he got anyway provided any real protection. On the contrary, as an Army journalist, Mr. Gore probably assumed more risk than he had to, choppering around South Vietnam interviewing soldiers who had just seen action.

"Anybody who knew Al Gore in Vietnam knows he could have sat on his butt and he didn't," said Michael Roche, Mr. Gore's editor on The Castle Courier, the newspaper of the Army's Engineering Command in Long Binh, near Saigon. Among 30 or 40 part-time correspondents and 3 or 4 reporters, Mr. Roche said, "I didn't have one who traveled as much as he did."

When he first ran for president, in 1988, Mr. Gore's campaign was criticized for using photos of him in his uniform, carrying a standard-issue M-16. Was he trying to create the impression that he saw combat?

"It's an accurate picture," he said, irritated. "That's what I looked like when I was doing my job. The fact is, I carried a pencil and a loaded M-16 A1 outside the base camp and I worked in areas where I had to be armed."

"I've never claimed to have been in combat," he continued. " No way I would compare what I did with people who came through the fire and did brave things. But Vietnam is a subject people hear about in funny ways. If they see a picture of you with a gun, they'll see that as an exaggeration. Well, excuse me, but that's reality.

Alan Leo/The New York Times
As an Army journalist, Al Gore traveled extensively to get stories. He is seen here interviewing soldiers near the Cambodian border.

Avoiding an Alternative to Service

Al Gore's military record is in no particular need of improvement. He was one of only about a dozen of the 1,115 Harvard graduates in the Class of '69 who went to Vietnam. And even before enlisting, he passed up a chance to serve in the National Guard -- the military option chosen by his presidential opponent, George W. Bush.

partners.nytimes.com

He gave in to a crackpot like Kim and sent over the most popular president in recent history and he ignored the Honduras situation...

Seems like his resume is playing out on foreign and military policy.

#17 | Posted by crispee_oc

Don't forget his caving in to the Russians over the missile defense system. I couldn't believe he canceled that for certain countries in Europe. And what did he get for it? Not a damn thing. Well, less respect from the Russians he got.

Here is why Obama's waiting and waiting to make a decision is bullshit. He campaigned on the fact that he thought Bush needed to send more troops and focus more on Afghanistan and that he would do so. If he felt that way then, he should have no problem sending more now. He clearly believed we needed more troops there long before he even became president. Now all he can do is waffle around. He's an indecisive pussy who is terrified of making the wrong move lest he lose even more popularity among Americans. All of this waiting is succeeding in doing is getting more soldiers killed. How would you feel to be a soldier over there with your CIC not knowing what to tell you to do?

As a soldier, you follow the chain of command and the according orders.

Only people questioning Obama's decisions are a group of neocon supporters who place politics above all else.

They should at the least, get behind our own potus the way 90% of Americans got behind bush after 911, despite that regime allowing us to be attacked on 911 on their watch.

That they don't, says it all about what their actual focus is.....politics before country.

Spokane is not a shitty town. It's not a Seattle or a Denver, but it's far better than a Detroit or a New Orleans.
.....#123 | Posted by SpokaneJim

....way to set high standards.......

President Barack Obama, facing withering criticism for a prolonged decision-making process on Afghanistan, asserted Friday he's doesn't want the next move to be seen as an "open-ended commitment."

The man's a weakling no two ways about it....
.

Only people questioning Obama's decisions are a group of neocon supporters who place politics above all else.

#315 | Posted by woke at 2009-11-13 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:SUFFERS FROM PROLONGED DUG USE

Yeah Right....

Good Gawd You're a fucking idiot
.

....way to set high standards.......

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten those of use not worthy enough to live wherever it may be you do, what would your standard be? I've been to every major metropolitan area in the country, and quite a few out of the country. Seattle is wonderful and clean, if a bit rainy and filled with brain-dead libs, and Denver is similar. I like Santa Fe, but find Albuquerque hot, dry, and boring. NYC of course is fascinating, as is Philly, but I'd saw my own head off first if I had to live in one of them. San Diego is beautiful with wonderful weather, but just up the highway LA reminds me little more than a smog filled slum. (sorry if I offend anyone, must my own perception). Miami is great, but one doesn't have to go far to get into some real shit. And I won't got to Tampa unless I'm heavily armed. (but there's a story behind that). My favorite, however, is simply home - the south-central parts of Alaska.

So please enlighten us, what cities do you think are above reproach?

Good Gawd You're a fucking idiot
#318 | POSTED BY 2008ATL AT 2009-11-13 11:23 AM

Another losing argument from "ranger" bob....eh?

LMFAO

Cleland's Body Rejects 2 Legs, One Arm

"Obama's ambassador, Karl Eikenberry, who is also a former commander in Afghanistan, twice in the last week voiced strong dissent against sending large numbers of new forces, according to an administration official. That puts him at odds with the current war commander, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who is seeking thousands more troops."

You've got to love Danni. She questioned every single move any republican has ever made, yet here she is pretending that questioning a president is bad.

How much thought did Obama give when he sent in those 20,000 troops months back? Why are these new possible troops more important than the ones he just threw at the problem last time?

Newsflash Danni, Generals ALWAYS have differing opinions. Retired Generals always think they know more than the active ones. The President hand picked McCrystal. If he thinks Eik knows more or better than McCruystal, he should have given him the job.

The 20 or so retired generals who disagreed with lilaWol/hallichainy's failed foreign policies and failed war plan (what plan?) were intelligent enough to retire BEFORE opining an opinion in the press, especially an opinion in opposition to their cic, because they understand the chain of command, unlike McChrystal. I look for him to be replaced shortly after a decision is reached on what to do about lilaWol's Afghanistan fk up.

"Newsflash Danni, Generals ALWAYS have differing opinions."

Yeah, I know, and sometimes (ALWAYS) it's a good idea to stop and figure out what the best plan really is before you have another disaster like Vietnam. Morons here criticize Obama for taking his time to get it right rather than just make a long term commitment we will all regret.

Morons here criticize Obama for taking his time to get it right rather than just make a long term commitment we will all regret.

#325 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-13 02:22 PM | Reply

Why didn't he spend any time deliberating the 20,000 troops he threw in to the fight already? You know, the reason we've seen an uptick in the casualties there.
Did he regret throwing them in there without defining their mission?

Danni,

And criticizing actual failures is not like criticizing a potus before he fails.

People who do that are placing politics BEFORE country.

Let's recall that despite being APPOINTED by his daddy's scotus cronys after losing the popular vote by HALF A MILLION American votes and the obvious election fraud perpetrated by his brother, and after screwing the pooch by allowing the usa to be attacked on his watch, 90% of Americans rallied behind these failures, until they invaded/occupied a country that didn't attack the usa and ignored the katrina victims for 5 days.

Only people questioning Obama's decisions are a group of neocon supporters who place politics above all else.-Woke

Don't give me that shit. Of course, soldiers must obey their CIC's orders, but don't try to tell me that many of them aren't questioning him and discussing the issue. You may have been a brain dead soldier, but there are many men and women in the military who talk politics, especially when it involves them.

Let's recall that despite being APPOINTED by his daddy's scotus cronys after losing the popular vote by HALF A MILLION American votes and the obvious election fraud perpetrated by his brother, and after screwing the pooch by allowing the usa to be attacked on his watch, 90% of Americans rallied behind these failures, until they invaded/occupied a country that didn't attack the usa and ignored the katrina victims for 5 days.

I'll bet you can say that one sentence in one breath can't you?

LOL

Yeah, I know, and sometimes (ALWAYS) it's a good idea to stop and figure out what the best plan really is before you have another disaster like Vietnam.-Danni

First of all, we aren't about to have another Viet nam. That's one the liberals just love to use. To your point though, don't you think he's taken long enough to make this decision? He's had several months to do so. Everything else he does he wants to rush it right through, but for some reason this is taking months. There is no reason it should take that long.

I understand it is a difficult decision but there aren't a lot of variables to have to go over on this. He's a sham of a president anyway. Just about everything he promised, especially about the wars, he's lied about.

Morons here criticize Obama for taking his time to get it right rather than just make a long term commitment we will all regret.

#325 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-13 02:22 PM | Reply

What makes you think that taking a long time to make a decision means that you will make the correct one? He could take years deciding and still fuck it up in the end. But you think just because he's taking so much time with this he's bound to be doing so because when he's done thinking he'll have the right answer. Great philosophy, too bad it's wrong.

329/328

The TRUTH really bothers those neocon supporters, who despite voting those failures into office, watching their failures for 8 years, want to somehow believe that Obama, who inherited those failures has somehow failed.

Hifknlarious, eh?

#332 | Posted by woke at 2009-11-13 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Bush derangement syndrome completely out of control today

331

I support Obama sending your sorry ass to Afghanistan to fix these failures that the neocon/repugs caused, since you most likely voted them into office, even after having 4 years to see their mistakes weren't going to fix themselves.

STAY THE COURSE, eh?

"I understand it is a difficult decision but there aren't a lot of variables to have to go over on this."

Sorry, but that is simply nonsense. There are not just many variables including judging the will of the American people but those variables are changing daily. Personally, I suspect that what is taking so long is that the President is planning for us to exit Afghanistan and wants a plan to do that which the military doesn't really want to provide because it isn't the plan they want.

Why don't you address the fact he just threw 20,000 lives at a problem he didn't understand without such careful consideration?

In your #335 you said something I can agree with. He's waiting to see what the American people want and that isn't called leading, that's called following.
He's letting this debate play out in public (with leaks) so he can see what he should do. He's an indecisive rookie that's in over his head.

Obama, unlike the last regime, seems to understand WHO he represents is the American people, not the war/oil/pharma/med corporations, eh Danni?>

WASHINGTON Morale has fallen among soldiers in Afghanistan, where troops are seeing record violence in the 8-year-old war, while those in Iraq show much improved mental health amid much lower violence, the Army said Friday.

Heck of a job there PrezBo.....Heck of a job

Just keep up the hand-wringing and leaves the troops hanging out in the wind

Absolutely Pathetic
.

There are not just many variables including judging the will of the American people but those variables are changing daily.-Danni

Then he's just like Clinton was. Clinton wouldn't take a piss unless the polls told him it was okay. I'm sorry, but that is no way to lead and is not leadership at all. Say what you want about Bush, but at least he made decisions without caring what the consequences were when it came to public opinion. It is utterly shameful that a president would rely on what the public thinks when it comes to managing a war.

Is this the same public that I see liberals calling stupid on this very board on a daily basis? For the most part I have to agree with them. The public shouldn't have any influence on war time decisions. What you are saying is this. Let's say that the public wants us out of Afghanistan and we do that. However, if we would have stayed it is entirely possible that we could have made things work out to everyone's benefit. But it's too late. The public already made the decision for the president. That is just backwards thinking. But I should expect no less from a liberal.

Too bad the chickenhawk mf's who LOVED these invasions/occupations didn't JOIN UP, so our war vets didn't have to be STOPLOSSED beyond their discharge dates and sent thru 3-4 deployments into a war zone to try to survive this EIGHT YEAR OLD WAR, eh?

Ever,
According to Danni's 322, the President knows better than everyone. Yet she then says he should defer to public opinion (as long as it is for getting out)...

I also love how public opinion matters all of a sudden. When the public votes down gay marriages they're stupid and shouldn't be counted.

Some people don't know the difference between leading and following. We elect a President to lead, not base decisions off of popular opinions. If B-rock wasn't ready to do this he should have sat the election out.

He got the 3am phone call 11 months ago, and the phone is still ringing.

Why doesn't anyone want to address the 20,000 troops he just threw in harms way, apparently without so much as a thought??

A government OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE....

with a potus who serves that constitution and the people, eh?

Too bad the tiny minority who believe the potus is supposed to be some sort of KING who listens only to his own advisors, and insures those advisors only tell him what he wants to hear, and bases his opinions on what giant global corporations want, didn't learn anything from supporting the last regime who followed that plan, eh?

If it were up to the people gays, blacks, and women would all be 2nd class citizens. It's due to leadership that 2 of the 3 aren't.

But you're a simple little retard that doesn't realize that the Leader of the Free World is expected to LEAD, not follow.

Now go take a nap you sorry, tired, crazy old codger.

I suspect that what is taking so long is that the President is planning for us to exit Afghanistan and wants a plan to do that which the military doesn't really want to provide because it isn't the plan they want.

So Obama isn't listening to his military leaders/advisors?

Gee, is that a good idea? I don't remember the left liking that the last time someone did that.

#340 | Posted by woke at 2009-11-13 03:11 PM | Reply |

Yawns....

You're just deflecting again champ

Your boy appears to be indecisive and irresolute....And it is obvious to All

EH?
.

Too bad the tiny minority who believe the potus is supposed to be some sort of KING who listens only to his own advisors, and insures those advisors only tell him what he wants to hear, and bases his opinions on what giant global corporations want, didn't learn anything from supporting the last regime who followed that plan, eh?

so in other words, Obama can't possibly make a mistake here regardless of what he does?

It doesn't matter whether he listens to his advisors or he doesn't. Either way he is fine in your eyes....

is that right?

"He got the 3am phone call 11 months ago, and the phone is still ringing."

And Hillary still has far larger balls than PrezBo....
.

"Ever,
According to Danni's 322, the President knows better than everyone. Yet she then says he should defer to public opinion (as long as it is for getting out)..."

If the public will is not going to last long enough to succeed in Afghanistan (as in Vietnam) then why ask soldiers to sacrifice their lives in a war we won't complete?? The president needs to ask us all, are we going to support an expensive, brutal war for ten more years??? I won't. I don't think most of you will. Even those who are so critical of Obama right now would be cheering for a Republican running in 2012 with the promise to get us out of Afghanistan.

Usually someone rejects plans when they already have the plan they want to use. But love to play the game of 'taking advice' and 'working with others'.

We know Obama has his plan, now he just has to wait for one of the generals to figure it out and then present it. And suddenly, the general owns the plan.

"And Hillary still has far larger balls than PrezBo...."

Personally, I want a president who has brains. If the president has testicles is irrelevant. Too bad there are morons who think they are the most important trait that a president must have. It sort of explains why the country is in such a mess following the presidency of "Bring it on" Bush.

BTW, "Bring it on" Bush had eight years to demonstrate the value of "balls." We wouldn't be there now if he had used brains instead of balls.

"We know Obama has his plan, now he just has to wait for one of the generals to figure it out and then present it. And suddenly, the general owns the plan."

We know, just ask Gen. Shinsecki.

Personally, I want a president who has brains. If the president has testicles is irrelevant. Too bad there are morons who think they are the most important trait that a president must have. It sort of explains why the country is in such a mess following the presidency of "Bring it on" Bush.

#350 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-13 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag:doesn't care for testicles

"doesn't care for testicles"

Apparently Eberly loves testicles. Who knew????

Apparently Eberly loves testicles. Who knew????

no, I like to munch carpet.

how about you?

Danni,
Those 20,000 troops Obama just threw in to Afghanistan...Why was it so easy that time? Where were the brains and careful deliberations? How about the debate amongst the generals?

Why will nobody address this?

Your boy

#345 | POSTED BY 2008ATL AT 2009-11-13 03:24 PM

My potus is man. A 48 year old MAN. A black MAN.

You would do well to remember that white men who call black man a "boy" are obvious RACISTS.

Not to mention, they certainly wouldn't have the courage, albeit idiocy, to do so to a black man's face. That you choose to do so here on the internet, what you most certainly would not do in person, shows the depth of your cowardice.

eh?

My potus is man. A 48 year old MAN. A black MAN.

Mine is an American who happens to be of mixed race.

Where the fuck do you live?

364

When Obama makes a big fkn mistake in my eyes, you will be the FIRST to hear of it okay?

Until then, why don't you get behind our potus who inherited the economic and foreign policy failures of the last 8 years?

Huh? What? Cause you put your failed neocon/repug political ideology BEFORE our country's welfare......

That's too bad.

"Why will nobody address this?"

I can't answer it because I don't have any way to know why he sent them. That was then, we had an election in Afghanistan since then which revealed how totally corrupt the Karzai regime is, perhaps that is a factor. I don't think the President would set himself up to take the criticism he is taking right now if he didn't have good reason to question the strategy McChrystal was proposing.

Is anyone surprised woke is answering post #364 in his post #359? That guy is fucking crazy.
Di di mau, round eye.

Danni,
I appreciate the candor. I just happen to think he's procrastinating this time because the winds may be a changing. I don't respect that. If he thinks getting out is the right thing to do, then he needs to get out there and say it. Lead people.
If he thinks staying is worth it, then convince the people why. Lead them.

He was elected to lead, not follow. This is the 3am phone call. Hillary was right.

Eb

You just aren't worth arguing with sonnyboy.

However, Obama would certainly pass for black, but not white in your lillywhite gated community, eh?

"He was elected to lead, not follow."

Yet he is being criticized for not following McChrystal's plan, immediately, without question. Looks like instead, he's leading by taking his time to get the plan he wants not just the one he was presented.

Obviously, the same bs will be posted at 364, as in 358, since these rw trolls all believe any lies and misinformation they are repeatedly told, over and over and then regurgitate the lies here on DR, repeatedly, ad nauseum.

Only question I have is this. Are you paid by the post or by the day?

And, if not paid, why would grown men spend day after day, pissing into the wind, as you do posting inanity on a liberal blog you don't agree with?

Unless YOU like the taste?

That must be it, eh?

Yet he is being criticized for not following McChrystal's plan, immediately, without question.
#363 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-13 04:16 PM | Reply | Fla

Immediately? He's been in office 11 months. The year and a half he spent campaigning, he claimed he knew what to do with Afghanistan.
How many months has he been deliberating this latest move?

He pretends as if every thing else needed to be rushed, but mysteriously, the one that involves people currently being fired at, doesn't. Thye can just sit over there and wait. Didn't you used to ask "How'd you like to be the last one shot?"...

Is anyone surprised woke is answering post #364 in his post #359? That guy is fucking crazy.

#361 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-11-13 04:10 PM

He's absolutely Insane

Has been ever since his days in the 'Jungle'

EH wokey?
.

Yep, that must be it, they love the taste of their own psssss....

"He's been in office for 11 months"

McChrystal delivered his statement to the press, BEFORE delivering it to Obama, in a pathetic attempt to drum up popular support for the pentagon and war/oil corps endless occupations......and just recently delivered that report to Obama.

But, keep posting.....it makes the idiocy of the last failed political ideology and it's supporter so very, very clear to anyone who reads your words.

How's that taste?

LMFAO

It's worth pointing out, however, that the leak helps the White House, not just the military, if it's decided it must follow McChrystal's advice. The left's resistance to America's commitment in Afghanistan has grown since 2008, and, given the deference President Obama has shown his generals so far, and since we're coming off several years in which Democrats painted Afghanistan as the justified war (as opposed to Iraq, the unjustified one), it wouldn't be surprising if Obama believes he needs to follow his new commander's advice, at least in the first go round. Leaking McChrystal's blunt words gives cover to anyone wishing to follow his recommendation.

Only thing that makes me "crazy" is watching the idiotic posts of those who continue to support a failed political ideology over supporting our constitution, potus and country. AND watching the posts of chickenhawk mf's who have never "served" anyone but their own pathetic selves, denigrate war veterans.

But, it doesn't cause me any problems other than a few wasted hours here on DR, eh?

And naturally 101 pretends that the situation is clear and the decision should be clear. Well, as he says, the winds may be a changing, not just here but there as well. Afghanistan is in general chaos. So people like GW Bush and presumably 101 would just go with the generals and barge in with another forty or fifty thousand troops not sure what they are there for and make it worse.

McChrystal delivered his statement to the press, BEFORE delivering it to Obama, in a pathetic attempt to drum up popular support for the pentagon and war/oil corps endless occupations......and just recently delivered that report to Obama.

#367 | Posted by woke at 2009-11-13 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag : GULLIBLE AS THE DAY IS LONG

You just aren't worth arguing with sonnyboy.

if you can't rise to the occasion that is your decision.

However, Obama would certainly pass for black, but not white in your lillywhite gated community, eh?

boy you are an angry motherfucker aren't you?

if it makes you feel any better, we probably wouldn't let you in either.

We don't discriminate on just race only. "Angry white trash is not allowed" is written just below "no darkies"

:-(

So people like GW Bush and presumably 101 would just go with the generals and barge in with another forty or fifty thousand troops not sure what they are there for and make it worse.

#370 | Posted by sitdown at 2009-11-13 04:46 PM | Reply

Or those 20,000 Obama barged in with?
STFU, novice.

McChrystal delivered his statement to the press, BEFORE delivering it to Obama, in a pathetic attempt to drum up popular support for the pentagon and war/oil corps endless occupations......and just recently delivered that report to Obama.

Okay, NOW the military is getting partisan and political. This sort of thing was beneath them from 2000 - 2008.

"Well, it's clear....they are all racist."

-Woke

But, it doesn't cause me any problems other than a few wasted hours here on DR, eh?

#369 | Posted by woke at 2009-11-13 04:45 PM | Reply |

That's what You think

All these years of getting your ass kicked has taken a toll on you

You're just Too fucking stupid to realize it

EH?
.

boy you are an angry motherfucker aren't you?
if it makes you feel any better, we probably wouldn't let you in either.
We don't discriminate on just race only. "Angry white trash is not allowed" is written just below "no darkies"
:-(
#372 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2009-11-13 04:50 PM

First, I am 60, not a boy, and old enough to be your daddy, most likely.

Secondly, thanks for ADMITTING you are a racist pos.

First, I am 60, not a boy, and old enough to be your daddy, most likely.

I know. you have repeated that enough. I never called Obama anything especially "boy".

I haven't called you "boy" either.

you are friggin senile...plain and simple.

Secondly, thanks for ADMITTING you are a racist pos.

you are just pissed....nothing more.

I tell you what, I'll take down the "darkie" sign but there is no way I can convince my neighbors to let you in.

Or those 20,000 Obama barged in with? -101

That was a "quick decisive act", 101. Now it's "barging in".

Old fart.

But, it doesn't cause me any problems other than a few wasted hours here on DR, eh?

Sadly woke they are generally wasted hours. I try to keep it to 15 minutes maybe twice a day.

"Immediately? He's been in office 11 months."

He only recieved McChrystal's plan recently. He also needed to get things changed in Iraq so that he would even have troops available to send to Afghanistan.

"He pretends as if every thing else needed to be rushed, but mysteriously, the one that involves people currently being fired at, doesn't."

Well, if he had to pick just one thing to take his time and be sure he got right, I'd choose the decision that involved people risking their lives.
Remember one thing about all the rush earlier about the economy, that was brought about by Bush and Paulson who had us all afraid the sky was falling. Obama may have been sucked into that and it may have been too quick but he also had to ask himself, "what if what they are warning us about actually happens." He really wasn't in a position to wait and see.

The left's resistance to America's commitment in Afghanistan has grown since 2008...

It is silly to say that it is just the "left" that is resisting the war.

Even worse than I thought! Obama is playing poitics with the soldiers lives. For shame, for shame.

All Wars are "Political" as well as military are they not? Are you saying that Bush did not play Politics with our soldiers lives when he didn't handle the AFPAK War properly in the first place? I could agree with that!

Or are you just trying to imply that Obama is not concerned with the lives of each and every soldier he has in the field or stationed in the Homeland? I fail to see where you can justify that. Care to share some links?

And here I thought you were immune from the "Chairborne Flu" being the original host and all.

...Are you saying that Bush PLAYED Politics...

AAAAAChooo!

Bless me!

Barack Obama 'risks Suez-like disaster' in Afghanistan, says key adviser

Leading authority on counter-insurgency fears US is heading for 'irresponsible' fudge on extra troops

A key adviser to Nato forces warned today that Barack Obama risks a Suez-style debacle in Afghanistan if he fails to deploy enough extra troops and opts instead for a messy compromise.

David Kilcullen, one of the world's leading authorities on counter-insurgency and an adviser to the British government as well as the US state department, said Obama's delay in reaching a decision over extra troops had been "messy". He said it not only worried US allies but created uncertainty the Taliban could exploit.

Speaking in an interview with the Guardian, he compared the president to someone "pontificating" over whether to send enough firefighters into a burning building to put a fire out.

Don't fret Danni. When they say he goes too fast that is of course wrong and when he hesitates that is also wrong if not worse.
They simply hate him and unlike certain people's hatred of Cheney and Bush, there is no justification for it other than that of the baser instints

A key adviser to Nato forces warned today that Barack Obama risks a Suez-style debacle....

Well those Brits sure know a Suez-style debacle when they see one, now don't they?