I swear I heard the Pope on the wild card line East of the Rockies last night...

Nanc will be crappin' herself....

I just heard something about this the other day on TV. I was surprised to learn that the Vatican did not rule out the possibility of space aliens.

If aliens exist, they may be a different life form that does not need Christ's redemption, the Vatican's chief astronomer said.

Jesuit Father Jose Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory, said Christians should consider alien life as an "extraterrestrial brother" and a part of God's creation.

"Nanc will be crappin' herself...."

Does she even admit that they are christian?

"I was surprised to learn that the Vatican did not rule out the possibility of space aliens."

Wait until they find out that they are going to hell unless they convert.

Why do people even believe this stuff?

Imaginary gods in the sky, priests telling us that they KNOW that these aliens are exempt, what a joke.

The Vatican has too much time on their hands.

"Priests telling us that they KNOW that these aliens are exempt...."

I thought they were just theorizing.

"Why do people believe this stuff...?"

When the aliens come, we might be able to ask them why they believe in this stuff. You have to at least admit the possibility they believe. Now, that will be an interesting conversation.

" I was surprised to learn that the Vatican did not rule out the possibility of space aliens."

Just preparing a fall back position.

With all of the endless billions of galaxies, stars etc out there, it is no wonder Jesus visited just once in the 3 billions years of this planets existence. He has a killer travel schedule visiting all the life forms in the universe telling them to be nice to each other!

I like the fact they didn't invite the intelligent design folks to their party.

I was hoping to get some creationists on the thread here, but alas it is not catching on.

Zed, I was attempting a bit of sarcasm.

Jesus has an itinerary? Jesus isn't big enough for this universe. Is Jesus the guy you see in paintings in the bible, or is Jesus something larger?

Your Jesus is just a icon.

If aliens exist, they may be a different life form that does not need Christ's redemption, the Vatican's chief astronomer said

Good. No sense having them start an interstellar way by trying to convert a bunch of little green men.

So basically the headline should read, "In recent weeks the Catholic church has informed news sources that they are in desperate need of parishioners as funds are running low in lieu of molestation payout which has taken place in Deleware and abroad."

"Your Jesus is just an icon...."

When He comes back, and He will come back, I imagine He'll look like a regular Joe.

But, yes---He is also something much larger.

"Nanc will be crappin' herself...."

Why? Most conservative Christians don't consider Catholics to be Christians.

I was arguing with my father about this over the weekend. I was telling him that many people don't know that American Catholics are for the most part very laid back with their religion and don't care what the Vatican says. I told him that people who identify with the left will attack Catholics losing language that fits ultra-conservative evangelicals not knowing that there is a huge difference. And he wouldn't believe me. I kept trying to explain that having been raised Catholic and living in the Northeat where there are alot of Catholics, his opinion is skewed. But he refuses to believe the ignorance that is on display here on a daily basis with regards to Catholics really exists.

E.T. phone Rome!

If I were to become religious within a Christian context becoming a Roman Catholic would be the only possible way to go. Like all religions they have their problems but one problem they DON'T have is rejecting everything that falls outside of a very narrow and ridiculous dogma defined by and for stupid people.

Big bang theory, general relativity and evolution provide the best answers to the mysteries of life so far and the Catholics see no problem accepting that God has arranged things that way. Equally why should they have a problem with a God creating aliens by whatever means he chose?

Some Christian religions insist that we are unique. That seems to unrealistically devalue what a God who can create a universe is capable of doing. Or perhaps all those stars are just lamps in the night sky -- seems unlikely.

BROCK:

I think selecting a church to attend would be better looked at by what they teach...not what thoughts they are willing to entertain.

I personally wouldn't belong to a religion with man made laws that go against Scripture, don't encourage reading of Scripture and place a mere man in such high importance behaving as if he were God Himself.

I was raised Catholic. As a kid I was questioning their teachings and traditions.

Of course it only makes sense since Jesus Hisself was an ET.

More importantly, are these space aliens having any abortions?

I was raised "Christian". As a Adult I was questioning their teachings and traditions.

LOL

I questioned at one time as an adult also, Donner.

I'm all better now! : )

LOL! Aliens are real and they come here all the time! The Church is really worried if the aliens come clean about who they are and where they came from it COULD invalidate the Catholic Church!

This is pure and simple Damage Control!! LMAO!

it is no wonder Jesus visited just once in the 3 billions years of this planets existence.

He did find time to visit Utah. His dad, on the other hand, ain't much of a traveller, preferring to spend time talking to conservative politicians and helping running backs catch touchdowns.

"I personally wouldn't belong to a religion with man made laws that go against Scripture, don't encourage reading of Scripture and place a mere man in such high importance behaving as if he were God Himself."

Lisa, pardon me but you have been saying this kind of crap for a looooong time. And quite frankly you piss me off girl.

When did the catholic church not encourage you to READ scripture? I never in all my years of private school or sunday school ever ever ever encountered such a thing.

And the Pope is leader-he's human. He doesn't behave 'as if he were God himself'. There have been good ones, bad ones, they are human.

Thats just the shit you Bapists/Pentocostalists/
lutherans/evangelicans/
prespeterians/4squares/
episcopalians/anglicans/
methodists/millerites/
congregationalists/anabapists/
shakers/
fellowshipfundamentalists/
uniterians/apostolics/
churchofgod inernationalists/reformists/
orthodox reformists/huegonots/
mennonites/
conservativegracebaptists internationalists/united zionists/beth israelists/antiochbapists have been telling yourselves to justify your existence.

"And quite frankly you piss me off girl."

Sorry about that.

"When did the catholic church not encourage you to READ scripture? I never in all my years of private school or sunday school ever ever ever encountered such a thing."

Are you kidding me?? I even asked if I could bring my Bible and was told no...we don't read from the Bible.

When I changed religions, my father in law asked " you can't do that...who is going to READ the Bible for you? "

That's all I've EVER experienced is discouragement from reading it myself. It's like I had to be told what it says and what it means.

And the reason why is because much of what they do actually goes against Scripture. Sorry if that upsets you, but truly...it does.

When my children went to a private school....not one of them had to bring theirs nor did they read it in school.

"And the Pope is leader-he's human. He doesn't behave 'as if he were God himself'. There have been good ones, bad ones, they are human."

Sweetie, even my friends who are Catholic will tell you they put GREAT emphesis on that man. I have heard some of them say "I'll only do this or that, if the Pope says it's ok to do it."

You may have had a different experience, but that doesn't mean mine isn't accurate.

"......have been telling yourselves to justify your existence."

What???

I already have my justification for my existance....lol...and it has nothing to do with the pope.

I'll tell you what Booj...why don't we just have a civil conversation about what you think I am wrong in?

I think you and I can manage that, don't you?

"I personally wouldn't belong to a religion with man made laws that go against Scripture"

Much of scripture basically is an early set of man made laws. It was written by men and edited heavily by government officials with the intent on influencing individual behavior to conform to desired norms. That's historical fact.

And when you really think about it, would a supreme being really be so foolish as to expect people today to believe in the validity of scripture? Horrible things have been done in the name of scripture for thousands of years but we're supposed to take it as the word of God? Why would God allow people to undermine the credibility of scripture constantly while expecting us to believe it? And did God love people more back in Biblical times when he apparently spoke to them directly all the time (this is before mental healthcare existed, BTW)? Why wouldn't God give us the same benefit of the doubt and speak to us directly rather than expecting us to trust institutions that have behaved reprehensibly over the years? Really makes no sense at all. "As a mere human being, you can't figure out God's ways" is not an explanation because we're talking about how God gets his word out to human beings and as a human being I understand the difference between communicating effectively and allowing your message to come across as total bull-plop.

Actually BOOJIBOY,

for the longest time, the Catholic church stated that it never changed its doctrine or theology. However it has changed much.

When the Pope speaks in his official capacity, he is supposed to be "infallable" however that is not true.

Why to priests have them call you father when the scripture says not to call anyone father, rabbi, than your spiritual father in heaven?

Also, not too long ago, one was to go to a priest or monseniour (sp) or bishop to understand the scripture. They were told they could not understand it on their own.

Why do they have to go to the priest if Christ and the scripture states, "There is no intercessor between man and God beside the one Jesus Christ."

What is the deal with the saints then? And the pope? and the priests?

I just told you.

When were you told not to read scripture????

Where do you get your misconceptions about the pope?

Sully, God might be expecting you to use the intellegence that you were given to decude that it is not the Scripture that makes people act that way, but rather people. It is their individual mis-understanding that causes them to kill for their religion, not the reliogion or God himself.

He might want you to think, overcome subjective for the objective. If you know it is not what the scripture communicated, why blame it for something that an individual did against it?

Are you not smart enough to seperate the two? Is that God's fault?

I questioned at one time as an adult also, Donner.

I'm all better now! : )

#20 | Posted by Lisa

sorry to hear about you giving up your brain to be absorbed by the "Borg". But I can see how it IS much easier to take the "blue" pill.

You think Maybe God is an Alien kid playing SimEarth?

If Eve was created from Adam's "flesh and bone" was she, in a manner of speaking, "cloned" from the DNA in Adam's blood and bone cells? A female clone would look almost exactly like the male original, and bear a greater resemblance than any sister does to her brother. Talk about self-love! Makes incest look tame by comparison! Clone yourself a marriage partner! Hey, it may become the wave of the future and it's Biblical! "Flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone," clone of my clone.

- E. T. Babinski

Lisa - I went to 12 years of Catholic school. We read the bible all the time. My first pastor (good old Father Gallagher) walked around on the school grounds reading the bible every afternoon. In high school I took bible classes where all we did was analyze the bible.

What do you mean? It is Catholic doctrine. When the Pope speaks in official capacity, he is deemed as infallable.

First the Bible said there was Limbo according the Catholics, and then they changed their mind and said Limbo does not exist?

How do they do that? Their doctrine or theology is never supposed to change. Why do they not allow protestants to take communion? Protestants allow Catholics to take communion if they claim a relationship with Christ.

"When were you told not to read scripture????"

The entire time I was Catholic...from birth into my late twenties.

"Where do you get your misconceptions about the pope?"

I'm sorry. I don't see them as misconceptions.

You personally, may not hold him in such a high fashion but many, MANY Catholics do.

And EXP has brought up some very valid questions. I have others if you care to discuss them.

Right now...my son just got home so I need to go but will be back later this evening. I'll check back.

"We read the bible all the time"

That's awesome!!!!

I will amend my comment:

SOME Catholic churchs....!

Gotta fly.

Oh and Donner?

Pfffft!!!! : )

It is their individual mis-understanding that causes them to kill for their religion, not the reliogion or God himself.

He might want you to think, overcome subjective for the objective.

Or more likely Religion itself is a form of insanity. IN most cases it is mild and does not adversely affect the host or society and sometimes it is even beneficial much like a drug that helps the user deal with the uncertainties of the world.

But, sometimes the side effects of the "God Meme" are disastrous and it goes "cancerous" and like a runaway train it will destroy anything in front of it and itself in the "name of God".

Ok..one more thing....

"Why do they not allow protestants to take communion?"

It's not just protestants...those who are divorced/married someone who is divorced aren't allowed either. At least at the Catholic church's in WI they aren't.

Ok..really gone now!

No more than people killing in the lack of a name of God. People kill for all kind of reasons, but it is not that reason that is killing.

However according to your statement, the people who kill religious people because they are not religious and think religious people are crazy, they kill because they are not religious.

Are you saying that being non religious is also a form of insanity?

Lets get the core, all humans have a form of insanity. We all fail to think past what is best for us, and what we want. Emotions, feelings, desires, false impresstions, lack of effort, all these things get in the way of religious and no religious people alike.

"Sully, God might be expecting you to use the intellegence that you were given to decude that it is not the Scripture that makes people act that way, but rather people. It is their individual mis-understanding that causes them to kill for their religion, not the reliogion or God himself."

But wouldn't God be smart enough to know that if I can figure out that these people aren't everything they are cracked up to be, I'm not going to listen to their religious message? You are conveniently leaving out the fact that God is the one allegedly relying on these people to deliver his message.

"He might want you to think, overcome subjective for the objective."

Ok and I did that and concluded that Scripture is mostly bullshit. Do you think your God is happy with that? LOL.

"If you know it is not what the scripture communicated, why blame it for something that an individual did against it?"

Scripture contradicts itself in many places so it isn't as clear cut as you are pretending.

"Are you not smart enough to seperate the two? Is that God's fault?"

So let's assume I'm an idiot. Should I got to Hell because I was born an idiot? Why wouldn't God give me the same deal he gave all those peeps back in Biblical days: Show me that he's real and tell me what to do and I'll do it. If he can waste his time setting wicked 'ole Saul straight and turning him into Paul, he can spare a few minutes for me, whose major crime is just being as stupid as he made me. Just pop in for a few minutes and say "Listen to the Bible" and I'll do it. He's everywhere at once already, how hard would that be? Why would he show only select people preferential treatment thousands of years ago and then turn his back on humanity? That isn't fair. I can think of two explanations: Scripture was created by man and not God. OR God is a jerk. I prefer to believe the former.

LOL at Sully. I tend to think more or less the same thing.

I only ask things I'd ask any superstar...

They're just looking for gods in the sky to boost their marketing scheme.

Oh and Donner?

Pfffft!!!! : )

#34 | Posted by Lisa

I love you too Lisa!

old news. really old news.

the people who kill religious people because they are not religious and think religious people are crazy, they kill because they are not religious.

Ummm EXP I don't think it actually happens the other way around as you suggest.

I am not talking serial killers or common criminals (who could also be argued and who do argue that they are insane)

Atheists do not kill for their "beliefs" and yell "There is No God like No God!" Nor do Atheists hear voices or get revelations from above or any other direction telling them to kill Christians. At least as far as I know.

Got any links about Atheists blowing themselves up or massacring Christians ? It would be interesting to see what the hell you are talking about.

Are you saying that being non religious is also a form of insanity?

No YOU are saying that.

Though I wouldn't really disagree much as there are a lot of crazy people in the world. Sometimes I think I live in a world full of lunatics and rational sane thinking is rare these days. Bit the Religious Zealots out stand above the rest with their special brand of crazy.

Bit=But

All we do know is this...According to the Roman Catholic Church...If there is extraterrestrial life...and they wont kiss the Popes Ring...they are "Going to Hell"...

At least, that's what millions of Orthodox and other believers in Christ have been told by this Pope and others

The Catholic church has been wrong before (many times)...

The ETs are here: Ephesians 2:1-2.... they like the smug liberals and atheists, jihadists too.

The ETs are here: Ephesians 2:1-2.... they like the smug liberals and atheists, jihadists too.

#46 | Posted by takitez

How did that recent anal probe go? I hear you talk to ETs all the time. I hear They recently told you Obama was going to lose the election. Guess that ET you been listening to is from a pretty dumb redneck kinda planet huh?

Yes, Obama stole the election with the help of ACORN.

"OK I did that and concluded Scripture was mostly bullshit...."

It would be interesting to see which verses passed the test of your stern intellect.

"Should I go to Hell because I was born an idiot....?"

God has compassion on you for being a simple idiot. Only surly, self-conscious idiots risk Hell.

"Obama stole the election with the help of ACORN."

But you told us repeatedly that God was going to vote.

And that God had decided McCain would be the 44th President.

Are you actually now claiming ACORN is more powerful than God???

God respects the free-will of liberals and acknowledges the rebellion of cheaters.... A generation was promised entry into Canaan, but their own rebellion disqualified them from achieving the promise...

God is all powerful, and ACORN folks are headed for hell if they do not REPENT.... so yes, ACORN may exercise temporary tainted victories, but not for long...

"It would be interesting to see which verses passed the test of your stern intellect."

Well, for me, "Love thy neighbor" passed, while Exodus 21:17...not so much.

"God is all powerful, and ACORN folks are headed for hell "

But you insisted God was going to make McCain the next President. Are you actually going to bear false witness, and deny making those claims? Why didn't God come through on his promise, but --according to you -- ACORN did?

Love thy neighbor as yourself, second only to love God with all your might. Christ summarized the entire Bible with this idea, including Exodus.

And on the second Tuesday of every month in Jehova's realm..

The Effeminate One did don his leotard and went forth...

He went forth as ordained by His Lord and did prance upon the stage with other latent participants and those who craved Men..

And he did call it "rehearsal"...

--Mao 26:19

"including Exodus."

Even 21:17, where a child who curses his parents "shall surely be put to death"?

"other latent participants and those who craved Men"

Finally...a subject on which Mao is an expert.

You're hung up in what Christ would have called trivium, Danforth. Jesus came to free you from trivia, among other things. Time to take advantage of that.

The Effeminate One
...
#56 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

The Macho Boy.

Big boots, big belt buckles, big hats, tiny dicks. And afraid to take a hike in a park without carrying semiautomatic weapons. Texans.

"You're hung up in what Christ would have called trivium, Danforth."

You're hung up on uncomfortable facts, Zed. You like to pretend the Bible is the Word of God...until, of course, one gets down to the indefensible specifics.

"Uncomfortable facts...."

God, Danforth, if you accept Jesus as such,
settled all your objections with two sentences, which I summarized above.

You don't accept Him as such. Therefore, I expect you'll keep cahsing your tail on certain things.

God has compassion on you for being a simple idiot. Only surly, self-conscious idiots risk Hell.
#50 | POSTED BY ZED

God is all powerful, and ACORN folks are headed for hell if they do not REPENT.... so yes, ACORN may exercise temporary tainted victories, but not for long...
#52 | POSTED BY TAKITEZ

It's amusing how Zed and Taki pose as two of God's talking dummies. Then the next day they'll say something to the effect that no one understands God's ways.

"You don't accept Him as such."

You're full of shit.

You're confusing being realistic with being a non-believer. You're also (seemingly) backing a blasphemer.

"Backing a blasphemer..."

Really? Whom?

But I'll stand by my position. If you wear shit-colored glasses, all you see is shit. For a majority, that is "realism".

Love thy neighbor as yourself, second only to love God with all your might. Christ summarized the entire Bible with this idea, including Exodus.
#55 | POSTED BY ZED

It sound's nice until one thinks about it, something for which Zed is incapable.

If one was to love his neighbors as himself, he wouldn't be able to survive. It's a philosophy of self-sacrifice. Since it biologically near impossible to do, Christians who take that nonsense seriously go through life full of guilt. It's nuts!

"Really? Whom?"

Sorry...I confused posts. My apologies.

Back to my prior point: You're confusing being a realist with being a non-believer. And you have no right to make a claim about another's belief.

" If you wear shit-colored glasses, all you see is shit. "

You're living proof.

"Since it is biologically near impossible to do...."

Pish-posh, proposing psychological doorstops- biological in origin, no less-for which there is no evidence.

you folks miss the example of the promised land.... humans can thwart certain plans of God.

Also God alone decides whot get to heaven and who is consigned to hell. Those who do not REPENT ultimately ends in the latter.

Repent or perish (Luke 13).

(too late for Lennon, Darwin and Sagan...)

"You're living proof...."

When to comes to snappy comebacks, Groucho Marx you're not.

"You don't accept Him as such."

Him who? Him Nguyen? Him Ho Hep?.

I don't care what you call it, DANFORTH, you've got whatever it is firmly in place and it distorts your thinking. It's realism of a damp and dirty sort, providing little insight and no advantage. If I found it laying about the house I'd take it into the yard and burn it.

Maybe you meant Him Wimoweh?

Pish-posh, proposing psychological doorstops- biological in origin, no less-for which there is no evidence.

If you love me as you love yourself, I should get half of what you earn. When can I expect the checks?

"I should get half of what you earn..."

Maybe you would, if you needed money. That's not what you need. Tell me, do you credit the concept of love?

Then you don't love me as yourself.

I love myself above all else. Because If I don't, nobody will take an interest in my well being as much as I do.

The Pope now believes in Extra-Terrestrails, flying saucers? I knew there was something weird about Catholics...LMAO Hahahahahahah.
lOONY Catholics.

"When to comes to snappy comebacks, Groucho Marx you're not."

I wasn't trying to be snappy.

(too late for Lennon, Darwin and Sagan...)

More blasphemy from a faux Christian.

Takitez it's the arrogant fool who declares who will be in heaven and who will go to hell. I betcha many folks that go to heaven that the people on earth that surely declared they would go to hell will be Holy and Truly Gobsmacked. Oh and it works visa versa too.

Larry

E.T. phone Rome!

#14 | Posted by cbob at 2009-11-12 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks! I needed that!

Jesuit Father Jose Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory, said Christians should consider alien life as an "extraterrestrial brother" and a part of God's creation.

After a brief discussion with a Papal emissary attending the event, he added, "unless they're gay, of course."

too late for Lennon, Darwin and Sagan...)

Takeitez,who says they didn't O knower of all things

Larry/Danforth.... God determines who goes where and a clear guideline has been given in the Bible...

ohhhh... extra "Terrestrials" geesh, I thought is said extra TESTICLES! Evermind.

I just love when Takitez can know who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. You do not know and neither do I. The only one that does know is G-d and He ain't saying yet. You can spew Your garbage all You want to about Hey so and so is going to hell. It's still garbage. I know I have no authority from G-d to tell who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. MANY people will be surprised who makes it in and who doesn't.

Larry

What has Ringo got to do with it

E.T. phone Rome!

#14 | Posted by cbob

Very funny flag!

FTA: Today top clergy, including Funes, openly endorse scientific ideas like the Big Bang theory as a reasonable explanation for the creation of the universe.

Making the calcified and hidebound Catholic Church more evolved than the coalition of science denying Christian fundy types.

Wow, how backwards does one hafta be to be less evolved than the RC church?

Be Well.

They have lost all credibility with me, glad I don't go to their church.

Anyone who believes in Aliens is a scam artist, I always suspected such. they make a lot of money saving people from "purgatory" when it isnt even in the Bible. Makes a lot of money though.

SPUD

Some Christian fundie will step up with a plausible explanation.

In fact, I think I've already heard it.

"God has many mansions."

Sound familiar?

"God has many mansions."

Sound familiar?

Laws yes.

That one has been brought to Spud's attention on a number of occasions.

Many mansions, many rooms.

Spud wonders wot their reaction would be if extra-terrestrial life did make first contact with Earth and it turned out to be an intergalactic version of the JWs proselytizing some crazy-assed mumbo-jumbo.

Would they all convert?

Bless me Father, for I have sinned.
I have been with a loose girl'.

The priest asks, 'Is that you, little Joey Pagano?'

'Yes, Father, it is.'

'And who was the girl you were with?'

'I can't tell you, Father. I don't want to ruin her reputation'.

"Well, Joey, I'm sure to find out her name sooner or later
so you may as well tell me now. Was it Tina Minetti?'

'I cannot say.'

'Was it Teresa Mazzarelli?'

'I'll never tell.'

'Was it Nina Capelli?'

'I'm sorry, but I cannot name her.'

'Was it Cathy Piriano?'

'My lips are sealed.'

'Was it Rosa DiAngelo, then?'

'Please, Father, I cannot tell you.'

The priest sighs in frustration.
'You're very tight lipped, and I admire that.
But you've sinned and have to atone.
You cannot be an altar boy now for 4 months.
Now you go and behave yourself.'

Joey walks back to his pew,
and his friend Franco slides over and whispers,
'What'd you get?'

'Four months vacation and five good leads.'

At least, that's what millions of Orthodox and other believers in Christ have been told by this Pope and others

#45 | Posted by Glen2Gs at 2009-11-12 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Bullshit and you know it. That is strictly a symbolic gesture handed down over a thousand years.

Fkn fundies.

I'd laugh at that joke Booj, but I'm afraid you'd get mad at me again. : )

Just don't dis a fellow christian's faith or place of worship. Roman Catholics are Christians ya know. They just have a boatload of pomp and circumstance associated with it cause of the history. And there is no denying that it has a lot of terribly screwed up stuff all through its history. But I'm such a fan of history so I remain drawn to it.

And when we dis each other like that we start sounding like the sunni and shia.

Im sorry you had such a bad experience. Things must be different in Wisconsin than in so-cal.

When we lived in Maui (years ago) we went to Saint Theresa's church in Kihei every Sunday, in fact I was an Usher for a time.

The Priest was Father Jack. He was a WWII fighter pilot who became a priest after the war.

The coolest most insightful priest I ever met. And the service was amazing. Hawaiian chior, hula interpretations of song. Amazing place. I never felt so close to my creator as when that choir sang.

This is a ridiculous conversation.

Ray is here talking about things he doesn't understand,
Danforth is here judging others of bearing false witness while he himself is doing so
all we need now is Skizz to come by and share some of his neural fantasy world where he hates the fantasy fantasy God.

No one here even takes a second to try to truly understand the other persons perspective. You may as well just crack stupid jokes and continue living blindly and stupidly. You've done it so well thus far.

Maybe God will take you for being mentally challenged and give you a pass.

Booj:

I never once suggested that Catholics are not Christians.

As far as some of the things that have happened...people seem to think that if one is a Christian, we are therefore suppose to be perfect. That is not truth. Truth is...it's because we are NOT perfect that we are Christians, needing Jesus.

That "pomp and circumstance" you mentioned that came down from history is mere tradtion, number one it doesn't make it correct and what does Scripture say about such tradition?

Booj...my fear is that some of the things the Catholic faith does are actually against what Scripture says and I don't understand how if Catholics read their Bible, they don't see these things. In fact one of them that Scripture mentions refers to it as "falling from their faith" and that to me is soul jeapordizing since if we don't follow Jesus' commands He will tell us to depart, that He did not know us.

I don't bring stuff up like this to insult one faith or another. I do so because I love my fellow man and want them to know Scripture so they do not get turned away.

Does that make sense to you now?

Hmmm. I'd be interested to know specifically what those things are (now banging altar boys would clearly fall into that catagory)

Booj:

I'm not talking about banging an alter boy.

I'm refering to the actual teachings and traditions.

I need to head out the door right now but I'll be back later tonight, if you will be here we can further this discussion. If not you can always shoot me an email and I can write you back with What I'm talking about with Scripture to back it up.

Which ever way is fine with me.

Gotta run. Have a great day!

It would be interesting to see which verses passed the test of your stern intellect.

#49 | Posted by Zed

God fails basic Physics 101

According to Genesis, chapter one, the "sun, moon and stars" were "made" (asah), and "set" (natan) in the heavens "to provide light, and for signs and seasons" after the earth was made. So, the "earth" existed before the "sun, moon and stars!"

Did our lonely planet twiddle its continents as it waited for the sun to be created, which would grab our earth with its superior gravitation and girdle our planet round its fat fiery waist; waited for the moon to be created to fuel the earth's tidal engines; waited for billions and billions of gargantuan flaming balls to be created, whose light extends in all direction to the farthest reaches of the cosmos (and which do not merely exist to "light the earth" and "for signs and seasons" on earth)?

According to the same chapter of Genesis, even vegetation and "fruit trees" were created before the "sun, moon and stars." As if God had decided, "Fifty-billion galaxies, including the sun, planets and many moons of the solar system must remain uncreated; in fact all the empty space in the cosmos must remain unfilled, until I have fashioned some orange, banana, and coconut trees on earth." Talk about an earth-centered creation account!

Other "earth-centered clues" include the way that the earth and all that lives on it took "four days" to create while the rest of the cosmos, like the "sun, moon, and the stars also," only took "one day" to create. So the Creator spent "four days" on the earth and only "one day" on the rest of the universe?

All of this leads me to doubt that the Hebrews ever viewed the earth as one among many "planets" or viewed the stars as "distant suns, or, distant `lamps' equally as `great' as the sun." The ancients simply viewed the "earth" as the "lower half" of creation, with the "upper half" being the "heavens" in which the sun, moon and stars were "made" and "set" to light the lower half. It's a flat world after all!

- E. T. Babinski

"Larry/Danforth.... God determines who goes where and a clear guideline has been given in the Bible..."

And you have absolutely no idea what happened in the last moments of their lives, so to make proclamations as to their eternal damnation is blasphemy, as the Bible clearly states.

# Speaking of the creation of man, did you know that there is only a 2% difference between the overall genetic makeup of man and chimpanzee? I can see God, on the sixth day of creation. On the last minute of the sixth day of creation. He's been goofing off all day. He still hasn't created man. Then he looks at his watch. "Oh Meeee! Wait, I've got an idea. Where'd I put those chimpanzee genes?" (God searches His pockets.)

- E. T. Babinski

# On the sixth day of creation God was walking alone through the garden of Eden and thought "What this place needs is someone to cultivate and keep it (Gen.2:15)." Then God spied some chimpanzees in a tree and thought, "Hey, what if I monkeyed around with this creature's genes? If I changed just 2% of its DNA I think I might be able to come up with a passable gardener."

In the Bible it says Adam named the animals. Did he go around saying, "You're `Fred,' and you're...hmmmmm...`Barney?'" Probably not.

On the other hand, did Adam's names resemble scientific nomenclature? Did Adam divide every living thing into its phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species. Did Adam start the branch of science known as cladistics, which studies everything it can about a living thing's anatomy and genes before fitting it into it's proper category?

No, I don't think Adam did that either.

So maybe Adam gave the animals colloquial "artsy sounding" names?

In any case, why should I be interested? We don't use Adam's "names" anymore. Besides, if I ever run into Adam or his immediate children in the next life I don't want to waste time arguing over whether a pig ^. .^

should be called a "pig," or must be called a "dooble-hizpot," because that's what "Father Adam" named it "in the beginning."

Creationists think the story points to Adam having had a "super brain," able to invent names for millions of creatures in a matter of days or hours, and remember which creature each name belonged to. Yeah, but could he do it again on a TV talk show, for us all to see, like Harry Lorraine the "memory expert" did, who memorized the names of every audience member, and then recalled them all on sight a little while later?

Then again, what's the point of God having Adam "name" all these creatures, especially ones that Adam was not likely to see or encounter again, like creatures deep in lakes, oceans, caves and burrows in the earth, or high up on mountainsides, or in the tallest branches and leaves of tree-canopied rain forests, or for that matter, having him "name" creatures so tiny that no one would even know they existed until after the microscope had been invented "six thousand years" [sic] hence?

The Hebrew tale about "Adam's naming of the animals" tells us more about ancient Hebrew ignorance of the breadth and depth of the biological world (or more about their mythic thought patterns) than about "Adam's super brain."

And what about naming all the plant species? The Bible says nothing about that. I guess even Adam's "super brain" had its limitations. Yet since Adam was given "every green plant to eat" and couldn't eat any of the animals "in the beginning," wouldn't it have been more useful for him to start off by naming all the plants rather than all the animals? Or did Adam point out food to Eve by saying, "See that `dooble-hizpot' over there? That green stuff it's munching is really good, I tried some yesterday."

Too bad good old Adam couldn't keep focused in the forefront of his "super brain" the one thing worth remembering according to the Bible fable, which was, "Do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge." But then how could a "super brain" resist the temptation to ingesting more "knowledge?" Sounds like a sting operation to me.

Needless to say, creationists take this stuff very seriously, as in the July 1995 "Impact" article #265, "Could Adam Really Name All Those Animals?" by William J. Spear, Jr., part of a series of "Vital Articles on Science/Creation" produced and distributed by the Institute for Creation Research, and mailed out to probably tens of thousands each month. Spear says that God used something similar to modern day VR (virtual reality) technology, i.e., when God "formed every beast of the field and fowl of the air out of the ground...and brought them unto Adam to see what he would name them." (Gen. 2:19-21)

I'm tempted to add a final word about this "vitally scientific" ICR article, but I can't. Some stuff just writes its own punch line.

- E. T. Babinski

Donnerboy: thats where fundamentalist interpretations break down here.

The Genesis chapter of the bible is steeped in prose. Just like any other interpretation of creation in any other faith.

It was humans first attempt to articulate an idea of how things got here. These were early farmers, who no doubt after the harvest, had time on their hands to grok such things

If you begin with the assumption that there is a creator (and of course this is purely a matter of personal faith, not science) you try to explain how it all got here.

How long would a day be to a creator? 24 hours, 3 billion years?

Fundamentalists get so bogged down in taking the prose at its literal definition. Its like taking a poem about sailing on the ocean and using it as a navigation map to get from point A to point B.

Fundies are so f'n dangerous.

One of my favorite websites::

If you begin with the assumption that there is a creator (and of course this is purely a matter of personal faith, not science) you try to explain how it all got here.

I guess my point here is that an all knowing God would know that the Earth was NOT the center of the Universe. He would know the Earth was NOT created before the Sun. He would NOT make these basic mistakes in Physics or geology. It WOULD be an easy mistake to make by some farmer trying to grok how he got here but an all knowing God "inspiring" someone to relate Creation of the Universe to the rest of the humans would KNOW. He would want the future generations of Humans to know that HE KNEW.

All scientists fail --- none can understand how life began. Evolution is a naturalistic philosophy.

Donnerboy: YES! exactly! and of all the christian faiths, only one is rising up to that occasion (as it always was) the Roman Catholic church.

Taki: Your such a fucking fundie tool. Go be a good boy now and pars some more scripture. The physical world is way beyond you to understand or know.

I don't mean to jump in the middle of Lisa's and Boojiboy's conversation but I guess I will anyway. When I was young I would occasionally go to a catholic church with a friend. I was protestant and the services were just weird to me. But, when I started hearing of what certain things they believed in like purgatory and limbo I just couldn't go for it.

I also never understood the confessions either. Jesus said no man enters Heaven but through me. He didn't say you have to go talk to one of my middle men to get rid of your sins. Confession, excuse me for saying this, is bullshit. But, that's my opinion. I just can't buy into an organization that makes stuff up that isn't even in the Bible. I'm not a practicing Christian just so you know, but those are my feelings about the catholic church.

Oh yeah! And the Pope....man, I just don't get it. This guy is so holy and yet so powerful at the same time. The whole idea of a Pope just doesn't sit well with me.

What part of no evidence can you not understand? Ah well, brainwashed ideologues will continue to believe in evolution myths.

I can sleep well knowing no scientist with naturalistic philosophy has any credible answer to life.

Everlong:

It's not just Booj and my discussion, feel free to jump in!

I agree with most of what your comment stated though.

We do need to confess...but to those we trespassed against and to God.

I find other issues more concerning. Praying to Mary, other "saints", for one. As you already mentioned Everlong...Jesus is the ONLY mediator between man and God. Praying to anyone else signifies false Gods, IMO and nowhere in Scripture does it say to pray to them. In fact "Saints" is refered to as all those who believe.

Refusing to eat meat and priests not able to marry actually is stated as falling from faith.

My Pastor sits in the pews with the rest of us. We do not look at him as a "Holy man"...he is no different than the rest of us and he'll be the first one to tell you that.

I just am concerned that people follow "tradition" more steadfastly than they do Scripture.

Taki, we have done this with you soooo many times.

A fool sleeps well. I'm sure of it.

I just am concerned that people follow "tradition" more steadfastly than they do Scripture.

That is a fair and true statement Lisa.

Just remember that it is an ancient institution and as such it takes time for it to evolve.

But curiously, since the Renaissance and into the industrial age and now into modern times the Roman Catholic church also has come to recognize the value of science and isn't afraid to embrace what science has to offer. Because the more we learn, the more awesome the Creators work becomes.

Unfortunately, in the case of a guy like Taki, because he is so locked into literal interpretations of what he reads in the Bible, he is forever lost to understanding what truly happened in those first '6 days' of the creator's work.

Thanks Boo... nice website.

All scientists fail...

In 1925, Julius Edgar Lilienfeld, an Austrian-Hungarian physicist FAILED when he invented the field-effect transistor.

Leon Theremin, an inventor from Russia FAILED when he developed a drum-based television system.

Tim Berners-Lee, an English scientist is credited with FAILING with the invention of the World Wide Web. Its development began in 1990.

What a FAILURE the Microprocessor was!

Sir Alexander Fleming, a biologist and pharmacologist from Scotland, had an EPIC FAILURE with the discovery of Penicillin.

-D

So Adam was walking through the garden feeling lonely. He looked around, the lion had a mate, the sheep had a mate. Everyone had one except him.

He said to God: "I am so lonely. Why do all the other creatures have someone, but not me?"

And God said "Adam. I have been working on just that. I will call your mate woman."

And God told Adam how wonderful his creation would be. Explained to Adam how with this new creation, Woman, would be everything Adam hoped for and Adam would never be alone. Adam was truly amazed.

But then God said. "Adam. To create woman, I need something from you and you must be prepared to make that sacrifice:

I need one of your legs."

Adam pondered this and said "Okay, but what can I get for a rib?"

"No one here even takes a second to try to truly understand the other persons perspective. You may as well just crack stupid jokes and continue living blindly and stupidly. You've done it so well thus far."

Not true, you have to do it with tact......I enjoy debating Lisa, Goat, Nanc, Murph, RisR, Zed, AK and many others...and that's teh right side of the aisle. I go at it with CC, Rev, ManyPaths, Tosser, Skizz, woke and many others on the left. It's all in the approach. The usual approach displayed by Takitz, Chapel and Chair, those usually get you no-where...... Some have better skills at getting their points across.

LM

The Pope now believes in Extra-Terrestrails, flying saucers?
#79 | Posted by Dr_Feelgood

......why not.....he's stupid enough to believe in God......

.....besides.....the odds of extratestrials existing are better than the ones for Santa Claus (or whatever your cult calls him).......

I would like to emphasize that Donner is a perfect example of the post you quoted from me LM. He does not even take thet time to understand that no all "fundementalists" take the scripture that way. He doesn't even really understand what fundementalist means, in its true meaning, not its current cultural misunderstood context.

Genesis 1 is not a decided fact. It is not clear. You have options of whether it was 24 hour days, or long periods of time. The Sun moon and stars do not have to be explained as Donner explains either. He likes to oversimplify in order to make a comical arguement from conjecture.

Also, I was specifically talking about this thread. However, overall most people go for one liner popularity points rather than seeking after a true understanding or conceptual idea of what someone else is talking about.

And now they find water on the moon. A lot of water.

What do you think that stuff that comes out of the smokestacks is made of duMMy? Tell me what you see big brain. youtube.com

da bOoB

#116

See that's my concern Booj....why are people waiting for a man made church to "evolve" when all one needs is in the unchanging, steadfast word of God that is in the Bible??

More importance is placed on the church than on Scripture.
No man made church is as ancient as the begining of Christianity. I guess my question to you is....why hasn't the church followed word for word the written commands of our Lord.

Isn't THAT more important than science? I'm not knocking science mind you, but as a Christian I can't see anything being more important than following Scriptures,.

I would feel more at peace knowing the Catholic church would go back to the basics of Christianity, get rid of all the man made pomp and circumstance and strictly follow the Bible for the sake of it's members.

Doesn't it concern you that it doesn't? You made no reference to the things I pointed out nor did you ask for Scripture to back my statements up....your focus was on the Catholic church listening to science.

I'll be back later...gotta fly. But I'm eager to hear your response.

#119 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel at 2009-11-13 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag: GETS IT!

#122 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2009-11-13 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: doesn't quite get it yet...sigh!

Genesis 1 is not a decided fact. It is not clear. You have options of whether it was 24 hour days, or long periods of time.

I believe my point is that it pretty much applies to the entire bible that it is NOT a decided fact by any means and very little actually could come from a God.

The "scriptures" as LISA loves to refer to as though they were the gushings of an ALL KNOWING God are nothing but the musings of Inspired Men. And I believe the question is...What were they "inspired" by? What IS the force that inspires men? I am sorry whatever it is the Christians don't have a lock on it...yet.

He likes to oversimplify in order to make a comical arguement from conjecture

I consider who I am talking to and try and fit the logic to their level of understanding. Sometimes I gotta go pretty low to get there. And yes I try to find the humor in that.

You got me there!

"I questioned at one time as an adult also, Donner.
I'm all better now! : )
#20 | Posted by Lisa"

sorry to hear about you giving up your brain to be absorbed by the "Borg". But I can see how it IS much easier to take the "blue" pill.
You think Maybe God is an Alien kid playing SimEarth?
If Eve was created from Adam's "flesh and bone" was she, in a manner of speaking, "cloned" from the DNA in Adam's blood and bone cells? A female clone would look almost exactly like the male original, and bear a greater resemblance than any sister does to her brother. Talk about self-love! Makes incest look tame by comparison! Clone yourself a marriage partner! Hey, it may become the wave of the future and it's Biblical! "Flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone," clone of my clone.
- E. T. Babinski
#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2009-11-12 04:01 PM

Uh, twincest, hello?:]

Goat, huh? smokestack, water on the moon?

Lisa: I guess its perspective. See, whether a true good Christian sits in a pew in an Episcopal Church, Baptist, Roman Catholic, any church, is truly immaterial. The 2 most important things are what a. what is in his heart and b. the humility of understanding how lucky you are to be alive and bearing public witness to the miracle of creation.

An analogy you could strike is with the nation of Great Britain. They have a modern government, yet they enjoy the traditions of their past via the monarchy, knighthood etc etc.

And despite being forward looking and forward thinking relative to science, we still don't have woman priests and priests cant marry.

I guess ultimately I feel a loyalty for an institution that took Western Civilization through the dark ages such that the renaissance could happen and we would end up where we are today.

We almost lost it all in the dark ages. Had it not been for the actions of the Roman Catholic church, the Franks and the Saxons, there would be no Western civilization today. And that battle is far from over.

That leads me to an allegiance to RC.

Donner:

My brain is very well intact and functioning perfectly.

Despite your insult, I still choose to converse with civilty.

You don't give God any credit for being able to do anything He chooses.You limit yourself to human thinking, not exploring the possibility that perhaps all that God does or doesn't do is beyond our capability to understand.

Why would God create things that can be scientificly proven? It would be easy to believe in something that can be proven without a doubt. If that were true there would not be faith. Without faith there would be no rightiousness.

Just as it is easy to love the lovable....more is credited to you for loving the unlovable.

Same.

You are trying to prove with science something that science can not define or explain.

God is NOT of this world, but you want worldly science to explain Him.

Not possible.

Booj:

What IS material is how some faiths place such importance on a mere person, almost to the point of idolization.

Priests are called father. Why?

Doesn't father give the impression that he ranks higher in order than another person?

What makes a priest so special that he is above others?

Please don't tell me they are not revered in that way, I know better! : )

you still haven't responded to the statements I have made regarding the tradition and practices. Is there a reason?

Your loyalty is to an institution rather than God? Did I understand that correctly??

Do I further understand that you credit the Catholic church for civilization today?

if so, please explain THAT!

I'm sorry Booj, but from your comments, it sure seems you regard the Catholic religion as the savior of the world.

That is tragic and the reason I continue to pray that people turn to the Bible rather than man for their spiritual understanding and needs.

Thanks for the discussion.

"What is the force that inspires men....?"

In regards to the Bible, God.

"Christians haven't got a lock on it (the force)..."

Indeed. Never expect to, doubt if it's possible. I guess my response is: so what?

Lisa, jumping in here. But why wouldn't God want us to gain an understanding of our physical place in the universe? In fact, why wouldn't we have a responsibility to do that? It doesn't eliminate the miracle of creation. It just means we ultimately come to understand it on the physical plane.

The advances in our understanding of the genome and how it changes over time is fascinating. And as time goes on it yields ultimately more complexity.

What IS material is how some faiths place such importance on a mere person, almost to the point of idolization.

Priests are called father. Why?

Doesn't father give the impression that he ranks higher in order than another person?

I have never met a priest who considers himself so.

What makes a priest so special that he is above others?
He isn't and doesn't claim to be. And with the revelations of recent years, there were some pretty horrid ones out there. And the church still has to answer to that.

Please don't tell me they are not revered in that way, I know better! : )

Not the good ones. I just plain old disagree with you emphatically on that one.

you still haven't responded to the statements I have made regarding the tradition and practices. Is there a reason?

Practices such as what, fasting? Not eating meat on a Friday? What?? Wine and Bread? Baptism????? I don't get you. Fasting and not eating meat on a Friday were done so we could personally acknowledge the passion. But its not a focus these days.

Your loyalty is to an institution rather than God? Did I understand that correctly??

No it is just the institution where I conduct my worship.
Do I further understand that you credit the Catholic church for civilization today?

if so, please explain THAT!
You need to read the history of the middle ages. I recommend a book for you, The Forge of Christendom by Tom Holland. It was the defense of Western Civilization during the dark ages. The light did not go out, but it was perilously close to that with the advance of the Corsairs from the Arab lands in the meditteranean, the take over of Constantinople by the Arabs and Turks and the Northlanders (Vikings) in the North sea. I can't give it all to you here Lisa, you got to do some research on your own.
I'm sorry Booj, but from your comments, it sure seems you regard the Catholic religion as the savior of the world.

Do some reading, and in this case OTHER than the bible. Research will lead to understanding, I guarantee you.

That is tragic and the reason I continue to pray that people turn to the Bible rather than man for their spiritual understanding and needs.

I turn to God for my spiritual needs Lisa, I assure you.

I didn't say He wouldn't, Booj.

However, don't you think complete knowledge in His word would be His very top priority for us??

As a Christian THAT is what we should be focusing on, don't ya think?

You had stated that it made you angry when I criticized the teachings of the Catholic church. Yet I have tried very politely, numerous times to adress those issues and each time you have blown that off.

If you aren't interested then you need to just tell me.

But in the future when your religion is being called on the carpet, you shouldn't be angry at someone who was willing to explain why and back their responses up with Scripture.

LOL

You look for what God requires of us as Christians in books other than the Bible???

Booj...you said it yourself....your loyalty is to a man made church.

Have a good evening.

You limit yourself to human thinking, not exploring the possibility that perhaps all that God does or doesn't do is beyond our capability to understand.

Yes! we limit our description of God to our human experience. Which is exactly why I KNOW that early Christians only have a glimmer of a clue of what a GOD is really all about.

God is NOT of this world, but you want worldly science to explain Him.

Almost! You really are coming along nicely LISA!

IF there is a God He is definitely NOT of this world. Maybe not even of this Universe! [which takes us nicely back to our topic!!] You see to be able to "create" the Universe from "nothing" and then to change the laws of Physics inside that Universe he would necessarily have to be from OUTSIDE that Universe. An Dimensional Alien as it were.

And personally, I don't think that I like this particular Alien very much as powerful as He may be. I am QUITE certain
I do not believe in an "afterlife" but regardless I do NOT wish to spend ETERNITY with this particular Dimensional ALIEN after what I have see and read about Him.

Do I have the free will to choose or not? If NOT then what does it matter? If I do then I chose not to be a "believer" I do not believe what I do not believe! So I do not chose HEAVEN and I do not chose HELL. I think I will take DUST to DUST or some other "option" or maybe just float throughout the Universe for eternity (it is a VERY big place) when I am done here.

And I gotta tell you LISA. I think that HE is quite the Fucker to let things happen like when HE LET 250,000 humans die in Indonesia (I can give you a litany of other "Acts of God" that are just horrible...from the HUMAN perspective anyway). If there is a God then he is obviously Fucking with us. If he si a God then HE is a God an WE are just Humans. I for one do not appreciate the way He has treated us as a species/science experiment (SIM_EARTH V2.0)!

So, you see, If God so powerful that HE set the Universe in motion and refuses to step in and stop these kinds of Events what makes you think he would stop, say, an Asteroid from obliterating all of mankind in an instant or any other horrible disaster that was "programmed" in from day one? The Asteroid Event may have been set into motion from the "beginning" just like the Tsunami Event was. A loving God would know this and adjust or tweak the knobs accordingly. Do you understand yet?

Personally I cannot "believe" in a God who does such things to his "children". It really doesn't have anything to do with proving God or disproving God with science. Science helps me as a Human understand the Universe as it IS. These things that I am learning via science about the Universe should be elementary to God.

That is why the logic of the Bible is so laughable to me.

According to your belief There was once a Tree of Life and a Tree of Knowledge. Right? WE Humans ate from the tree of Knowledge. With that Knowledge WE are figuring out what a God would or should have known about the Universe HE created. The God of the Bible is getting harder and harder to hide in the "gaps" of science.

And YOUR God would not let us eat from the Tree of Life. WTF is that about anyway? Why would a all knowing and loving God reduce our lifespans to less than 70 years in a Universe that with time scales as big is it is? Even your Bible says we used to live to 900 years and with science (dang them failing scientists!) someone born today may live to be 1000 years old.

anyway luv you Lisa...take the red pill... we need you to wake up before the Asteroid (or whatever Event is coming next) hits us.

-D

sorry! my grammar was horrible but I gotta get now... great subject though...I will peek in later... keep on looking up!

"Personally I cannot believe in a God that does such things to his children...."

I understand people when they say this. One of the most interesting verses in the entire Bible is the shortest: "Jesus wept".

Jesus wept because his friend Lazarus died. What's fascinating is that he cried knowing Lazarus would shortly live again.

Christ wept because He was a man. Men understand tragedies. Men rarely if ever understand that all traqedies are resolved. Christ raised Lazarus because He was also God. Only the tragedy really died, not the man.

"What is the force that inspires men....?"

In regards to the Bible, God.

"Christians haven't got a lock on it (the force)..."

Indeed. Never expect to, doubt if it's possible. I guess my response is: so what?

#132 | Posted by Zed

Hmm I thought Jesus was the Way and the Truth and the Light and that NO MAN cometh unto the Father but by Him.

So now you are saying that Jesus is NOT the only way to get to the "Force" i.e. the Truth or God? Whew! Now maybe I will get to see God after all when I die (He apparently don't show up until after you die anymore). Otherwise, I wasn't going to bother Him. Seemed kinda dumb making Jesus the "keymaster" anyway. That Guy never seems to be around when you need Him. Though I hear He hangs out in Prison a lot. A lot of people seem to "find" Him there.

The Bible is so full of contradictions! Can't Hope to keep up with it.

"So you are now saying that Jesus is not the only way to get to the force..."

What I did say was we don't have a "lock" on the force. I took you to mean control or understanding. If that's how you meant it, then I stand by it.

"Can't hope to keep up with it..."

I, for one, haven't given up hope for you.

Lisa darling, I'm not going to quote scripture here, I asked you to tell me what it was in terms of ceremony, and I even suggested a few items and you don't respond.

I discuss history and you claim that creates some allegiance to a church rather than God. Very disingenuous of you.

I told you I flat out disagree with your description of a priest and his role.

Sorry. I just don't think that we are connecting. But I will continue to object to your inflammatory remarks about the great old church.

If you have time away from parsing scripture, read my book.

Or not.

I love you too Domner! Never think I don't!!

Are you a parent Donner? Do you discipline your children? What is the purpose of discipline? What happens to children when they are not disciplined?

You don't like God because He has allowed horrible things to happen.

I can't explain why God allowed certain things to happen. He does have a purpose.

We all die, Donner. Some die of illness, some of horric circumstances, so from accidents, some from natural causes. Again....I dong understand God's purpose for everything but I will tell you this...I am a firm believer that lessons are to be learned from bad experiences as well as something good always evolves out of them. Sometimes it's later rather than sooner, but that always holds true.

Some of turn towards God when faced with hardships so they help us become closer to him.

We find out what we truly love during hardships. Many people take each other for granted until something bad happens. They are too focused on the material things of life but when tragedy hits they realize just how unimportant material objects are in comparison to people.

Our faith gets tested and strengthened. Or, people find faith for the first time.

We develop strength, determination, character and courage when faced with trials.those things are like a muscle, they only increase and get stronger when used.and we would not use them if we were never to face horrible things.

We should be using our experiences to help others.

Our compassion grows. We tend to rekindle brotherly love when terrible things happen.

Those are just a few.

God has a purpose for every season under Heaven!!

I can tell you by my own experiences that what I first believed to be something horrible happening in my life....it always benefited me in the long run.

And I want to ask you, how do you know that those people who were killed by terrible circumstances did not accept God/Jesus at the last minute are not sitting in glory with God as we speak?? If they are, I am happy for them. You probably would disagree.

I believe that the end of the world is not going to happen until Jesus comes again. And no one knows the hour not even the Son.

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and suddenly knew they were naked. They were ashamed and hid from God because of their newfound knowledge.

They knew what bad things suddenly were didn't they?

Along with good comes the bad.

And Donner...there isn't a wordly aspect that can define or explain God...He is not of this world.

It is called Faith.

Have it or don't.

I do.

Hey Lees!

Me too!!!!

Booj:

Ceremony, huh? Ok...

Do you pray for the dead? Have "masses" for those who have passed?

Why?

Do you not believe Jesus that we will be judged by our deeds?

Those people have passed on. They can not produce anymore fruit....good or bad.

You either believe Jesus or you don't. Those who don't, pray in vain for those who have died since their fate is already sealed.

Why do you go to confession and confess your sins to a priest?

Don't you believe Jesus when He stated NO ONE gets to the Father except through the son? Do you believe the priest is a higher authority than Jesus?

Of not, then why the ceremony of confession??

What does Communion mean to the Catholic church? Does it represent the Last Supper before Jesus sacrificed himself to atone for our sins so we will be forgiven?

Then why does the Catholic church deny people the act of forgiveness? Why was my mother not allowed to receive communion, forgiveness because she married my father who was a divorced man? Does the Catholic church believe they are in a higher authority than Jesus, and are able to sit in Judgment ignoring Jesus when He stated that a man may put aside his wife if she commits adultery...deciding for themselves that they would decide what sins were forgivable again disregarding Scripture?

Oh but wait!!! My mothers sins would be completely forgiven if she would give them 1000 dollars to get an annulment!!! She would make everything right!!

I'll just start with those.

The biblical God is by definition---an alien.

Jesus was not God.

Jesus was by no definition the son of God anymore than any other human male was the son of God.

The bible says that God had many sons, and that they had intercourse with human women and produced offspring.

Genesis
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

"Jesus was not God..."

The mere fact He said He was is inconsequential.

"Jesus was not God..."
The mere fact He said He was is inconsequential.
#149 | POSTED BY ZED

He had a god complex.

"He had a God complex...."

So did his Daddy, rumor has it.

So did his Daddy, rumor has it.
#151 | POSTED BY ZED

Fact has it, his Daddy was created.

Jesus was not God.

Jesus was by no definition the son of God anymore than any other human male was the son of God.

The bible says that God had many sons, and that they had intercourse with human women and produced offspring.

#148 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-14 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag: NEEDS TO BE ON THE SHROOM THREAD

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior."
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - "To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ"

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins."

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, "I and My Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?" The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Acts 4:12 - "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 22:13 - "I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."... 22:16 - "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches."

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Hebrews 2:17,18 - "Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted."
Hebrews 4:15,16 - "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."
1 Peter 2:24 - "who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed."

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends."
Romans 5:8 - "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

But hey, those don't count.

-BB the Shroom Vendor

But hey, those don't count.

Why would they?

The Chapel

The biblical God is by definition---an alien.

Any life form not native to Earth, is an alien. The biblical god fits that criteria.

Jesus was not God

If Jesus was God---why did he ask Why his father had forsaken him? Why would he sweat blood before the crucifixion? Human only sweat blood under the most dire circumstances, and if Jesus was God--why should he worry about anything? Who was Jesus praying to--himself?

Jesus was by no definition the son of God anymore than any other human male was the son of God.

Did Jesus have Gods DNA? No DNA, no son. Do you know what the word "son" means?

The bible says that God had many sons, and that they had intercourse with human women and produced offspring.

Genesis
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

You prove yourself incapable of intelligent debate--picking and choosing what you want from the bible, and babbling incoherenty numerous verses that have nothing to do with the points being made. Your name calling is typical of Christians when faced with logic. Your disease is shared by the majority of humans on this planet, ensuring our early extinction. Maybe god made the Earth for dinosaurs, since they managed to hang on for 140 million years. We won't even make 1 million years---thanks to people like you--and the Muslims---and the Jews---and all who can't face life without a make believe entity.

"Jesus was not God..."

The mere fact He said He was is inconsequential.

#149 | Posted by Zed at 2009-11-14 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

I must have missed that part--where does Jesus say he is God? You realize that changing what the bible says is instant Hell don't you? So show where Jesus says he is God, or admit your lie.