For someone who is supposedly working for pacifist solutions to the Zionist agenda Hussein Hajj Hassan doesn't appear to know how to pick his battles.

Hezbollah is offended by everything, who gives a damn what the women and children killers of Hezbollah think. The sooner these uncivilized barbarians martyr themselves the better off the rest of the world will be, good riddance...

They can go fuck themselves. What a bunch of thin skinned morons.

They're offended by the fact that a Jewish teenager lived long enough to write a book in the first place.

Hezbollah's Al-Manar television channel ran a report slamming the book for focusing on the persecution of Jews.

*facepalm*

Yeah, it's funneh how when yer trapped in an attic with yer family fearing fer yer life every waking moment cos of Nazi persecution how one tends to dwell on that kinda thing.

Maybe if she had a chance to write a sequel it woulda concentrated on other aspects of her life but as it turns out?

Not so much.

This is seriously a *head-desk* moment here.

They should not ban it, no one should support censorship. They should just classify it as a work of fiction so kids don't get confused.

I flagged that, Nazi, you piece of shit.

Note to self: Real Story is now known as Goodlittlenazi.

I flagged that, Nazi, you piece of shit.

Piece of shit? That moron has staked out claim to the whole turd.

I have always wondered why we Americans were forced to read the 'Story' of a poor little Jewish girl who the Germans treated so badly.

Then I realized it was all made up by the Zionists and they are still getting away with it today.

Force Feed that shit into the minds of American school kids so they can all pity the poor jews.

Those Zionists are ruthless fucking bastards, but they are fucking smart.

They got their Country didn't they?

"Cui Bono" folks.

They should not ban it, no one should support censorship. They should just classify it as a work of fiction so kids don't get confused.

#6 | Posted by goodlittlenazi

You guys still have 924 years of your 1,000 year Reich left. Any big plans?

stupid on the part of hezbollah

sends the wrong message to the world.

especially since they are wrong.

The sooner these uncivilized barbarians martyr themselves the better off the rest of the world will be, good riddance...

Harsh way of talking about Reagan's business partners, dude.

But I'm confused. Didn't the righties tell us Israel took care of hezbollah in 2006 or 7? i distinctly remember Condi in her cheerleader outfit chanting "clusterbomb that kid, clusterbomb that kid".

People are condeming Lebanon for not allowing its enemies propaganda be taught to their school kids?

WTF is up with that?

Maybe we should force US kids to read and understand the Koran and accept it as truth.

Would be about the same fucking thing.

How about this:

"Take your Zionist shit and shove it up your own asses Zionists."

"stupid on the part of hezbollah

sends the wrong message to the world."

hmmmm.

Could there be a pattern here Kliff?

And what are we supposed to do if we GET the message?

Like them?

Agree with them?

Trust them?

The question that needs to be asked is what is Anne Franks diary doing in ANY schools

What is the purpose?

Cui Bono?

Start answering that and you'll need a V-8.

Isnt this the liberal idiot that gets all hot at others and calls them racist? I see everyone else is just ignoring the idiot comments I guess that what libtards do when they dont agree with another libtard

How about this:

"Take your Zionist shit and shove it up your own asses Zionists."

#14 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-11-10 04:01 PM | Reply

Sorry forgot to paste this before the last post!

Zion isn't a race you fucking idiot.

why don't they just stick to teaching the children that their life's ambition should be to kill the jews and blow up their self's and as many people as they can.

Why do American kids read that propagnada?

What is the purpose of reading something a 13 year old wrote?

Again, start answering these questions and you just might begin to see the light.

WTF is propagnada ? Illiterate nazi swine.

Propaganda is the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

You didn't know that?

Why do American kids read that propagnada?

What is the purpose of reading something a 13 year old wrote?

(why can't anyone face those questions enough to answer them?)

And the BIG quesetion when it comes to the holocaust.

Cui bono?

No one dares to touch that one.

ManyPaths-

We read it so we don't repeat history's mistakes.

Does that make sense?

Good, now STFU

"what is Anne Franks diary doing in ANY schools"

Usually those studying it are roughly the same age as Anne. It benefits the students, who are easily transported into that world, and can identify with another teenager wanting to make a difference.

Also, what Danforth said.

We do need to teach history in school. It is important that we learn from others' mistakes because we will never live long enough to make them all ourselves.

Does that make sense?

Nope. I think you read it to feel sorry for the poor Jewish people that would never do anything to hurt anyone yet is always treated so badly by everyone else.

Makes a lot more sense then reading what a 13 year old girl wrote about her family in crawl space.

If I want to read about history in order to not repeat it I would not look to the words of a 13 year old that had no idea why she was were she was.

But everyone feels real sorry for her in the end huh?

They gotcha! And now they want to program their enemies children with the same sappy story? At least another country isn't falling for the Zionists' propaganda. You sure as hell have.

What difference did Anne Frank make?

What call to action to it send to American children?

Pity the Jews. That's the message it sends and the Zionists have been playing that card for a long fucking time.

Come on!!!! Answer the BIG question...........

ManyPaths-

You are right. The Nazis were the true heroes, and the European Jews got what they deserved. That's all we need to teach our children, right?

Great!

Also, go fuck yourself, you vile piece of dog shit!

Also, question for you about denying history and the occurence of the holocaust.

Cui bono?

If you have to make stuff up to defend your argument, then you lose man.

"You are right. The Nazis were the true heroes"

You see, I never said ANYTHING even REMOTELY close to that, but you feel the need to make stuff up in order to feel better about your position.

It's l ike lying. When you have to lie, you lose.

Can you see how that hurts your argument or at the very least proves you are not able to argue the point in the first place?

I would appreciate it if you made an attempt to be accurate when addressing my words. Thanks.

Cui bono?

#32 | Posted by Shapful

Sorry, I asked first and I now understand your inability to answer it.

Thanks anyway.

No problem, dickhead. Go have a circle-jerk with your skinhead buddies!

#35 | Posted by Shapful

Further proof of your inability to argue your point. You continue to make stuff up that isn't true in order to feel better about yourself. Can't you see that you might just have a problem that needs medical attention?

What do you get when you cross a Nazi and a Zionist?

The State of Israel.

Get it?

OK, beer 30. Cui Bono? My taste buds.

would i rather have my kid read The Diary of Anne Frank or heather has two fucking mommies?

"I would not look to the words of a 13 year old that had no idea why she was were she was."

You've just defeated your own premise. She didn't know, but you, somehow do?!? Tell us, then...why was she where she was?

ManyPaths-

Do you think that children in school in Lebanon should learn about the events of 9/11?

Wouldn't they feel bad for the Americans who lost their lives? Would they learn that America exaggerated the number of deaths resulting from 9/11 to garner world sympathy?

Just curious what you think. No names, no profanity, just the topic at hand.

Thanks.

Oh, and I have a good follow-up!

Assuming you went to school in this country, did you learn about the plight of the Native Americans?

Or was it all just Pilgrims + Indians Thanksgiving stories?

Oh, and I get your joke. Jews are the real Nazis, and Zionists are people like George Bush and Dick Cheney.

"What difference did Anne Frank make?

What call to action to it send to American children?

Pity the Jews. That's the message it sends and the Zionists have been playing that card for a long fucking time.

Come on!!!! Answer the BIG question..........."

It has extreme relevance for exactly that reason dumbfuck.

It begs the question how callous the state of Israel can be given when dealing with palestinians given its heritage of persecution-dont you think lil skinhead????

BushCo had UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan Murray, fired in 2004, for revealing that the CIA was using the country to rape children with broken bottles and boil people alive unless the parents confessed to being members of alQaida. Cheney was determined to prove the effectiveness of going to the dark side, no matter who had to be tortured or sacrificed.

The history of man is horrible, just like the Bible.

#44 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-11-10 08:27 PM

Link please

why don't they just stick to teaching the children that their life's ambition should be to kill the jews and blow up their self's and as many people as they can.
#20 | Posted by semtex111 at 2009-11-10 05:24 PM

30% of the businesses that IDF destroyed in Beirut were Christian. The Israeli primarily destroyed banks, schools, dairies and continued to fire at civilians escaping on their own designated routes. They even killed Red Crescent workers, journalists and killed American civilians when they needlessly fired rockets at the United Nations building (which, btw, doesn't even have minarets). Lebanon used to be called The Riviera of the Middle East and had a flourishing economy with internationally recognized tourism. The Zionists and the US coalition, not the Arab nations are warring in the Middle East, so let's be clear whom is programmed for destruction.

On top of all of that Israel used biological and chemical weapons and continue to deny using them. They also have a nuclear arsenal which they continue to deny exists. The Mossad were caught on 9/11 red-handed with bombs and video of both planes hitting the towers - foreknowledge and the weapons. They even admit on Israeli television Mossad were part of operations during the attack on American soil, so whatever boxcutter nightmares keep you awake are entirely fictitious. Israeli Jewish Zionists CELEBRATED American DEATHS, joyfully dancing on camera while New York City burned. The enemy are Zionists, fundamentalists and neo-conservatives.

Ann Frank diary banned in Lebanon while Hezbollah News (Al-Alam) is banned in the USA and Israel. Why should anything be banned or censored? Countries and interests use propaganda and the only way to untangle it is to see all sides. Now Israeli interests want to buy out Al Jazeera.

I flagged that, Nazi, you piece of shit.

#7 | POSTED BY GRUMPY_TOO AT 2009-11-10 01:02 PM

What are you all hot under the collar about? The Diary is a work of fiction, not the first one either regarding the holocaust. I suggest you look into the court case for the true author - Meyer Levin wrote the story for Otto Frank (Anne's father). After he was cheated out of royalties, he sued Otto Frank and Frank settled out of court. Why would Otto Frank agree to pay Meyer Levin royalties on a diary his daughter wrote? This is not even a debate, the book is a work of fiction and all I did was call it what it is - I don't want anyone to censor it. Much like Elie Wiesel says, "Some stories are true that never happened". By the way, in case you never studied Anne Frank, she died of typhus after being transfered between many 'death camps' where the common narrative is they instantly killed all of those incapable of working (like someone suffering from typhus or Elie Wiesel's foot infection that required surgery and a long recuperation that he had in Auschwitz) after a quick selection process by Joseph Melange and then thrown into a gas chamber by John Demanuck whom both seemed to be working at all the camps all at the same time according to the eyewitness survivors. Further, shockingly, her corpse was not made into a lampshade, a nazi shrunken head, or even jewish fat soap after her death. The wonders never cease.

What is the purpose of reading something a 13 year old wrote?

#21 | Posted by Manypaths

Because it's more intelligible than the entire collected writings of the Muslim world?

"What is the purpose of reading something a 13 year old wrote?"

We should be used to it since half the posters here act about that age and yet we read THAT!

#48. You remind me of someone who used to post here on anything involving Nazis. A lot

And anyway, as a true and eloquent diary of suffering at the hands of fascists, it was worth wayyyyy morrre than fiction, as her astute father recognized, he was no idiot. so he pushed for royalties. Why is that such a mystery to you littlehitlerbuttbuddy?

I
believe it was just a few years ago Volkswagon paid reparations to descendants of those who worked as slaves for the Nazis. Annes father wanted the same for what they took from him

here is one boojiboy,

here'sanother boojiboy,

The lawsuit in question if you read it involved publishing rights. Not authorship fuckface. And the 'common narrative' as you describe it has her dying of disease before the liberation. Always as I read it

You little buttbuddynazi are by far the biggest tool I have ever seen post.

Thank you nutcase. I will read and judge for myself.

#46: I also read somwhere, or wait heard from someone somewhere that every missing child on the back of milk cartons were the result of Mossad selling them for harems to Arab sheiks!

No. Its true!

Crap. Fuckin neonazis

Bain of true christians everywhere

Anne Frank gave us an inside, blinding light in the eyes, look of what life was like living with the threat of death on a daily basis.

Hezbu-Allah means "party of god". Need we say more?

To the NEO nazis who decry her diary; you call yourselves NEO because your fuckin 3rd reich died. You're the new guys, remember? 'Cause the old guys failed. Their cause was fuck'd from the beginning.

Just thought I'd remind you.

Here is a night time story for aaaall of you little Nazi's and Moslem Jihadists to cozy up to. Historical fact BTW

Wayyyy baaaaccckk in the year 1009, Caliph al-Hakim, presiding over Egypt and the holy land, saw fit to completely demolish the Christian Church of the Holy Sepluchre. This church was built upon the spot thought to be the tomb of Jesus Christ.

Throughout Western Europe among Christians there was outrage. But nowhere was that outrage more fervent than in Frankland (France duh). For there in the town of Limoges, the jewish were brought forth from their homes and drieven away or executed.

And the Nazis and Jihadists lived happily ever after.

Night night little jew haters. Stay cozy!

BtW. The church was rebuilt beginning in 1033 and no one really wanted to talk about all those pesky jews throughout Europe went through as a result of the spineless Caliphate.
It would all be so much the better they thought, if we all stay quiet and cover up what just happened.

God is great!

And my little Nazis. History is chock full of stories like this. Open your eyes to the real truth.

You've been royally, hysterically fucking duped.

The real God is Love

And truth will empower you and set you free.

And anyway, as a true and eloquent diary of suffering at the hands of fascists, it was worth wayyyyy morrre than fiction, as her astute father recognized, he was no idiot. so he pushed for royalties. Why is that such a mystery to you littlehitlerbuttbuddy?

Are you an idiot and a liar or just an idiot? Otto Frank WAS THE DEFENDANT in the lawsuit. He was being sued by Levin because Levin wrote the diary and wanted royalties. Levin is not a publisher, he is an author and playwright. Otto Frank screwed him out of royalties on this work of FICTION and was sued as a result. Frank settled out of court to avoid widespread knowledge that the book was fiction and written by Levin - no school would force anyone to read/buy a fiction book by Levin, it needed the Anne Frank angle to make money. Of course I assume that you know this and were just lying - then again, I don't want to presume too much, you may just be an idiot....

Meyer Levin wrote the story for Otto Frank

O Rly?

Meyer Levin (October 7, 1905 July 9, 1981)

Levin was one of the first American journalists to become aware of the existence of Anne Frank's diary, and he was also one of the first people to recognize the literary and dramatic potential of this document. He wrote to and met Otto Frank, the father of Anne Frank. Levin became convinced that he had a strong interest in the text, and he later became obsessed when Frances Goodrich and Albert Hackett successfully adapted the diary into a hit play while the play Meyer Levin had written was rejected. His 30 years battle to have his play performed and the legal battles that resulted are covered in An Obsession with Anne Frank: Meyer Levin and the Diary by Lawrence Graver, The Stolen Legacy of Anne Frank: Meyer Levin, Lillian Hellman and the Staging of the Diary, by Ralph Melnick, as well as in the French-language book by Levin's wife, Tereska Torres, "Les maisons hantees de Meyer Levin", published by Editions Phebus (Paris).

Just wanted to point out that I am a long time lurker (at least a year), and a political independent, and:

DETHSPUD is by far the most interesting poster on this board.

DETHSPUD is by far the most interesting poster on this board.

#66 | Posted by Shapful at 2009-11-11 08:42 AM | Reply | Flag: flirting

I completely agree Shapful!!

And welcome to our little family!

#68 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-11-11 08:55 AM | Reply | Flag: flirting

#69

Can't someone just be nice around here without it being interpreted to mean more??

I know niceness is an oddity here but geesh!!

Oh, Good Morning Lisa.

"Can't someone just be nice around here without it being interpreted to mean more??

I know niceness is an oddity here but geesh!!"

I'm just teasing, Lisa, you flirt.

And here's the reason I lurked for so long before I stopped shaking enough to become a member....

Good morning 101!! : )

LOL

I know you were.

Just wanted to point out that I am a long time lurker (at least a year), and a political independent, and:

DETHSPUD is by far the most interesting poster on this board.

w00t!

Woo Hoo!

Hear that everybody?

Somebody thinks Spud is interesting!

Thank you fer them kind werds and welcome aboard the slow motion train wreck in progress that is our beluffed Tort.

the reason I lurked for so long before I stopped shaking enough to become a member...

Airhead?

"And here's the reason I lurked for so long before I stopped shaking enough to become a member...."

You mean that you were nicer than this before you started posting here and had to wait until you toughened up a bit?

That idea is giving me a toothache.

"He's as predictable as gravity and once you get over his shock jock mentality and realise that he has absolutely nothing of substance to offer beyond his continual attempts to out-crass the other feces hurling primates around here then he becomes not so much intimidating as pathetic."

Wow, I don't know what I ever did to you to deserve that one.

Because of the lawsuit in a German court, the German state forensic bureau, the Bundes Kriminal Amt [BKA] forensically examined the manuscript, which at that point in time consisted of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose pages bound in a fourth notebook, with special forensic equipment.

The results of tests, performed at the BKA laboratories, showed that "significant" portions of the work, especially the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded those sections must have been added subsequently.

In the end, BKA clearly determined that none of the diary handwriting matched known examples of Anne's handwriting. The German magazine, Der Spiegel, published an account of this report alleging that (a) some editing postdated 1951; (b) an earlier expert had held that all the writing in the journal was by the same hand; and thus (c) the entire diary was a postwar fake.

The BKA information, at the urgent request of the Jewish community, was redacted at the time but later inadvertently released to researchers in the United States.

Read above, the diary is a work of fiction.

Read above, the diary is a work of fiction.
#79 | Posted by goodlittlenazi

I don't think that "goodlittlenazi" is the best username if you are going to make arguments like that.

Kinda undermines your point.

"The diary is a work of fiction...

No opinion in regards to whether this diary is fiction. Anne Frank, where she ended up, and how she died, aren't.

Wow, I don't know what I ever did to you to deserve that one.

Dude, talking about 101 Airhead there.

Not you.

Re-read, including Lisa's post that Spud cited.

You'll figure it out.

Be Well.

"Not you."

Understood. Took your tone to be similar to that of RM above and responded defensively.

I stand corrected.

No opinion in regards to whether this diary is fiction. Anne Frank, where she ended up, and how she died, aren't.

Well, when children are forced to read the book and accept the content as fact in pursuit of a Zionist agenda I think you are obligated to have an opinion.

"In pursuit of a Zionist agenda..."

But you have no agenda at all, do you, snookums?

"Zionist agenda...."

There were two sorts of German concentration camps, can you name them? If you can't, then maybe Anne Frank still has something to teach you.

For bonus points, how deep was the mass of worms beneath the yet-to-be-disposed-of bodies at Buchenwald? How was the depth measured and by whom?

I noticed the shot was directed at Chairborne as well. Deservedly so.

I actually don't mind Chair. He wears his true colors (or at least his shtick) out in the open. It's sort of cute. He's almost like a GoodLittleNazi character, but with depth and multiple dimensions.

For bonus points, how deep was the mass of worms beneath the yet-to-be-disposed-of bodies at Buchenwal

When people die from typhus and supplies are scarce to feed the local population much less provide medicine, etc, I would expect that there would be a pile of bodies. Was the pile bigger than that of the British concentration camps during the Boer War? After all, they were the ones that came up with the concentration camp concept so I would assume that they are the benchmark. Would they have been bigger than the piles that would have been created in the US concentration camps for the Japanese had the Americans lost the war and the West Coast local population was starving with bombed out infrastructure? Was Shermans treatment of the local population better than the Germans during the civil war? Was the death rate higher than Andersonsille prison during the civil war where you had typhus outbreaks? Or were the piles deeper than the 250K German civilians that burned to death in the Dresden fire bombing? We should all know by now that the Brits were the first in WWII to bomb civilians populations and the 'London Blitz' was the German response. All the things that the uniformed hold up to show 'unprecedented German cruelty' were quite common practices. Once one looks at the facts around the holocaust, Anne Frank, conduct before, during, and after the war, you get a different view of history. Of course, one has to be willing to be intellectually honest and perform some hard research work and those posters on here have neither the intellectual capacity or willingness to get informed.

"I would expect there to be a pile of bodies...."

Would you expect that pile to be in a facility run by the SS?

"Was the pile bigger than the concentration camps run by the British during the Boer war...?"

No clue. Are you conceding the Germans had concentration camps? Would you now like to discuss their number?

"Deeper than the 250K German civilians burned to death at Dresden....?"

Both the Brits and the Germans subscribed prior to the war to the doctrine of breaking civilian populations through mass bombings.

If Hitler had the means to deal with London as was done to Dresden he would have. He wasn't a nice man.

Ernst Romer and Edgar Geiss

Who?

A third German lawsuit involving Otto Frank (as a joint plaintiff) ran from 1976 to 1993. It all began when Ernst Romer handed out pamphlets after theatre productions of "The Diary of Anne Frank" with the headline Bestseller A Lie. The Public Prosecution Service decided to prosecute Romer, and later also his sympathiser Edgar Geiss, who handed out the same pamphlets in the courtroom. The two cases were tried together. Romer was sentenced to a fine of 1,500 Deutschmarks (about 750) and appeal. The appeal case dragged on for so long mainly because an investigation was first carried out by the Federal Criminal Police Office, and it was then decided to wait for the German translation of The Diary of Anne Frank (the Critical Edition). This appeared in 1988, and could be used as evidence. Romer decided not to proceed with his appeal, because of his advanced age, so that only Geiss remained. One of his appeals was successful: the distribution of libel in pamphlets carries the comparatively short time limit for prosecution of six months, so the case was dropped because this statutory limitation had expired.

"Once one looks at the facts around the holocaust, Anne Frank, conduct before, during, and after the war, you get a different view of history"

Only if you're reading the posts at Stormfront.

Actualy newspapers from the times depict a minority population seeing restriction after restriction: prohibitions against travel, schooling, fraternization, business, bikes, and ultimately, liberty itself.

You can attempt to exculpate German (or other) behavior until the cows come home, citing historical context.

WWII was a horror. If it's full story could be told, we'd understand it wasn't as bad as Frank's diary alleged. It was much, much worse.

Would you expect that pile to be in a facility run by the SS?

Yes, I would. No food, no medicine, infrastructure destroyed equals dead people. Why is that difficult to understand?

No clue. Are you conceding the Germans had concentration camps? Would you now like to discuss their number?

Yes, they had concentration camps - as did the Americans, Brits, Russians, etc. After the war all 'freed' countries in Europe set up concentration camps for ethnic germans as well. A concentration camp does not have to entail death, disease, etc and do not have to include gas chambers. Yes, people died. We have a Red Cross estimate of ~360K across all german camps. I believe the Red Cross.

"Yes I would...."

You miss the point, and that's interesting. The SS moved no dead bodies into camps. The point is the dead were living people when they got there.

I know pretty much exactly the point in time when issues of food, medicine, and infrastructure began to bite the Germans.

But the Germans began building concentration camps ten years prior to that. This is what you call "historical context". Pay attention.

I nominate "GoodLittleNazi" as the DR handle that most accurately describes a poster.

Actualy newspapers from the times depict a minority population seeing restriction after restriction: prohibitions against travel, schooling, fraternization, business, bikes, and ultimately, liberty itself.

Wow, sounds like Gaza today or the US South until very recent times, or women in any Arab country in the world. There is nothing unique here. The story doesn't differ until propaganda enters the story. There were a grand total of 360K jews in pre-war germany and hitler was actively working to have them resettled elsewhere, as was always his policy. Why did he take these measures? Well, if you read the accounts of pre-National Socialist Germany you will see his reasoning. He did not believe that jews were loyal germans because they refused to become part of german society (rightly or wrongly). I would say that he was right as this was when the zionist movement was in full swing and the world jewish congress has declared war on Germany.

"A concnetration camp...Does not have to include gas chambers...."

Indeed, some were specialized and quite small. Begs the question whether you think some did have such chambers.

Begs the question whether you think there were dedicated death camps in Germany. Begs the question whether you'll argue against contemprary SS organizational structure and say that there weren't.

Was Anne Frank's Diary cleaned up in an editorial process before being published?
No doubt.
Does that make the Diary a work of Fiction?

Otto Frank insists that the notes were from his daughter. Handwriting analysts state that all the papers were written by the same hand. Hence, Otto Frank is a liar as proven by BKA analysis. Levin is a the author of many 'historic novels' and sued Otto Frank over royalties and won. Despite all of these FACTS, you think the book was written by Anne Frank. I really don't even know why I am responding to you are you are the liberal 'this is how it feels to me' personified vs. dealing in actual facts.

GOODLITTLENAZI--

I'm hip to the irony of arguing about something like this with someone like you on this sort of holiday.

I'd say I'm sorry to confuse you with facts and logic, but I know you learned how to dispose of both years ago.

Nothing good came from the Third Reich and Hitler. If you'd state that clearly I could leave this discussion feeling a little less depressed.

But the Germans began building concentration camps ten years prior to that. This is what you call "historical context".

You miss the point. Prior to the war, the 'evil concentration camps' held political prisoners and criminals. I suggest that you read the history of one such camp - Dachau - and actually learn the death rate when their was adequate food and medicine. Why were political prisons rounded up - maybe had something to do with the jews leading the communist revolutions such as in Russia and Hitler despising communism. However, the were never moved here and killed in gas chambers. That narrative is now only written about in a handful of camps in Poland after the Germans began to lose the war - despite eyewitnesses claiming to see gassings as pretty much every camp - the experts at the USHM, etc acknowledge that there were no gassings outside of Poland. This isn't even debated any longer despite the 'eye-witnesses'. This tale died along with nazi shrunken heads, human soap, and human skin lampshades.

Nothing good came from the Third Reich and Hitler

I dunno. Ever see Hitler's "art"?

(small joke for a very sad subject. Very small)

This tale died along with nazi shrunken heads, human soap, and human skin lampshades.

#104 | Posted by goodlittlenazi at 2009-11-11 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

The bellybutton lampshade thing is true. (why am I arguing with a pretend nazi on veterans day?)

However, the were never moved here and killed in gas chambers.

Yeah, I'm sure all the missing Jews rode a comet to new Israel on Mars. Holocaust deniers are special folk. I'd say you should be marched into a chamber yourself, by why waste the zyklon-b? Shits expensive.

Begs the question whether you think there were dedicated death camps in Germany. Begs the question whether you'll argue against contemprary SS organizational structure and say that there weren't.

Please tell me which camp in Germany was a 'death camp'. Please provide proof of a single gassing that occurred in Germany. If you can, you probably want to alert the US Holocaust Museum and Yad Vashem as they say that there weren't any in Germany. But then again, you seem to have 'facts' so let's here them.

There were a grand total of 360K jews in pre-war germany and hitler was actively working to have them resettled elsewhere, as was always his policy

I really hope your handle, and your arguments, are some kind of reversal to make holocaust deniers look like the fools they are.

Being serious about this means someone FAILED YOU in your childhood.

"Please tell me which camp in Germany was a death camp...."

Trick question. Please tell me you think there was ever such a camp anywhere?

Please tell me which camp in Germany was a 'death camp'.

Auschwitz.

The camp commandant, Rudolf Hss, testified at the Nuremberg Trials that up to 3 million people had died at Auschwitz. The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum has revised this figure to 1.1 million,[2][3] about 90% of whom were Jews from almost every country in Europe.[4] Most victims were killed in Auschwitz II's gas chambers using Zyklon B; other deaths were caused by systematic starvation, forced labor, lack of disease control, individual executions, and purported "medical experiments".

At Birkenau, the Nazis used a cyanide gas produced from Zyklon B pellets, which were manufactured by two companies who had acquired licensing rights to the patent held by IG Farben. The two companies were Tesch & Stabenow, of Hamburg, who supplied two tons of the crystals each month, and Degesch, of Dessau, who produced three-quarters of a ton. The bills of lading were produced at Nuremberg

So what was the gas for, nazi? If no jews were gassed?

"Hitler was actively trying to have them (Jews) resettled elsewhere..."

Well, it crossed his mind to send them to Madagascar. Of course, what possessions they couldn't carry with them there he would get to keep. Please don't attempt to tell me Hitler wasn't a thief on grandest scale.

Yeah, I'm sure all the missing Jews rode a comet to new Israel on Mars. Holocaust deniers are special folk. I'd say you should be marched into a chamber yourself, by why waste the zyklon-b? Shits expensive.

Which missing jews are you referring to? The ones that disappeared and then reappeared in New York, Miami, South America, and Israel? Or are you referring to the jews that fled to and still live in Russia today? The FACT is that at no time were there 6M jews in territory controlled by Germany during the course of the war. Kind of an inconvenient truth for the orthodox exterminationists to explain. And you are correct, zyclon-b is expensive, as was coke for burning bodies, as was operating a rail system to bring bodies to gas chambers, as was diesel fuel which was in extremely short supply, yet the nazi's wasted all of those resources when a bullet to the head in the ghetto would have been more efficient. Given the nazi's were losing the war, do you think they they really wasted all of those resources not actually fighting the war? I know that you think the nazis were evil, but were they also stupid? Albert Speer, who controlled all resources in the Reich didn't know death camps existed, how was this possible when so many resources were dedicated to this task?

"A grand total of 360K jews were in pre-war Germany..."

And how many Jews were there in pre-war Poland? Or pre-war Hungary? Why did Benito Mussolini, MUSSOLINI for Christ's sake, exclaim that the world needed to know what Hitler was doing with the Jews?

So what was the gas for, nazi? If no jews were gassed?

zyclon-b was used for delousing as lice carried typhus. The Germans has delousing facilities at all camps, concentration and otherwise, for delousing clothes and bedding. Please learn the history of zyclon-b before making such stupid statements in the future. Next, you are going to show a gas station receipt and claim that proves the Germans must have used the fuel to asphyxiate jews with it. Like I said earlier, you are not disagreeing with me on gassings in germany, you are disagreeing with Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Museum.

They used most of the "detainees" from the death camps as slave labor,nazi.

That's how they could afford to kill the rest, that weren't useful to the cause.

Given the nazi's were losing the war, do you think they they really wasted all of those resources not actually fighting the war?

I know that you think the nazis were evil, but were they also stupid?

You don't?

"Albert Speer, who controlled all resources in the Reich, didn't know death camps existed...."

That would be the same Speer who confessed to using slave labor and was sentenced for that?

LITTLENAZI is perhaps the most disingenuous little squib I've encountered for a while. Speer didn't control the camps, HIMMLER did.

zyclon-b was used for delousing as lice carried typhus. The Germans has delousing facilities at all camps, concentration and otherwise, for delousing clothes and bedding.

yeah, I guess all the people at the nuremberg trials just lied about what they were doing, huh? You are sick and stupid. This conversation is over.

"Please learn the history of Zyklon-B...."

I think it would be great if you contacted the Imperial War Museum in London and told them their Zyklon-B exhibit is in error.

The camp commandant, Rudolf Hss, testified at the Nuremberg Trials that up to 3 million people had died at Auschwitz.

To correct some errors in Wikipedia - you can do some independent research and find the same - Hoess originally claimed to have gassed 10M jews in Auschwitz before his final 'confession' which states 3M. He 'confessed' to this in a handwritten document, which he chose to write in English although he never learned the language and could not even speak it. He wrote this confession while being beaten daily and the threat that his family would be turned over to the soviets. If you would actually read the confession, rather than wikipedia's recap, you would learn how utterly laughable it is when it comes to his statement and what we know to be true from basic physics. Today, Auschwitz claims to have had a little of 1M deaths IN TOTAL. Yet, you point to a 'confession' for 3 times that many and you don't see anything wrong with that. I hope you never sit on a jury because critical thinking is not your strong suit.

I haven't read the entire thread, but it seems from the bottom posts that Nazi's arguments are the same trivial academic points that are really quite meaningless.

So what if it wasn't actually 6 million jews. Would 3 million be ok? How about 1 million? 500,00? What's the magic number of acceptable genocide victims? What about the millions of other undesirables? Should we worry about the exact number of them too? Is the magic numbers for genocide different for gays or mentally retarded people than it is for jews?

"How about one million (dead Jews)...?"

I think this is NAZIS' point entirely. There were only that many dead, and that makes everything OK.

the same trivial academic points I've heard elsewhere that are really quite meaningless.

whoops.

The brand of Zyklon-B used by the Nazis contained substances which gave the pellets a blue appearance and left blue stains inside gas chambers which can still be seen today in chambers that were left intact.
And I've seen those blue stains...So FUCK YOU.

Yes, thank you for bring that up - the blue staining is called 'Prussian Blue'. As a matter of fact, if you ever actually visited Auschwitz, there is an outbuilding that was used for delousing (nobody claims it is a gas chamber, not even the guides at Auschwitz) and the Prussian Blue permeated the bricks and the blue residue can be seen on the outside of the building. Now, given that there is an intact 'gas chamber' that is shown in Auschwitz that does not have any blue staining or 3 'destroyed' gas chambers (they are not completely destroyed as you will see, roof is intact, walls still supporting the structure, etc) and there is no staining there either. In fact, chemical analysis performed for the Ernst Zundel trial in Canada proved this to be the case. So, your own evidence shows your story not to be true - but thanks for trying.

He wrote this confession while being beaten daily and the threat that his family would be turned over to the soviets.

interesting. but why the agenda to inflate the stats? Like it has been said....1 million is just as appalling as 3 million despite that it is lower.

why the lies?

"The blue staining is called Prussian blue..."

Quite right. "Prussian Blue" is also the name of a music group beloved by contemporary nazis.

"As a parting gift...."

Oh, you shouldn't have! Pardon me while I get some tissue to clean it up.

So what if it wasn't actually 6 million jews. Would 3 million be ok? How about 1 million? 500,00? What's the magic number of acceptable genocide victims? What about the millions of other undesirables? Should we worry about the exact number of them too? Is the magic numbers for genocide different for gays or mentally retarded people than it is for jews?

And here it is, a confession on your part that you really can't argue the data so it becomes an argument based on 'feelings' vs. facts. How about we get real data so we know if it is 1 or 10 or 100 or 1000 before we start coining it a genocide. So, you tell me, how many people does it take to have a genocide?

"A confession on your part that you can't really argue the data...."

What a piece of work you are, son. The reams of data you've skipped over just in this thread is something of an accompishment. You've been beaten a half-dozen times. Only hate keeps you on your feet.

interesting. but why the agenda to inflate the stats? Like it has been said....1 million is just as appalling as 3 million despite that it is lower.
why the lies?

#125 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Interesting question. One might argue he picked an unreasonably high number to show that the whole confession was BS, basically, intentionally discrediting himself. It also might have something to do with the Soviets claiming that the number of deaths was in the 10M range and his 'confession' just happened to align with that - of free will I am sure.

However, that is immaterial. The point is that the confession is tainted and utterly worthless as a result. As far as physical proof goes for the holocaust, you are left with:

1.) Forced confessions by Nazi's
2.) Eye-witnesses that contradict each other

There is no blue staining on the walls of the 'gas chambers', there is no soil disruption where the bodies were said to be buried, there is not a single communication between Nazi officials talking about the holocaust despite them believing that communication was 100% secure due to the enigma machine. So, we are left with the same exact things used in the prosecution of the Salem Witch Trials.

What a piece of work you are, son. The reams of data you've skipped over just in this thread is something of an accompishment. You've been beaten a half-dozen times. Only hate keeps you on your feet.

Which reams of data? The Hoese confession summary on Wikipedia? Read the original dumbass, it is in English after all.

And here it is, a confession on your part that you really can't argue the data so it becomes an argument based on 'feelings' vs. facts.

It's no such thing. It's an acknowledgment that we'll never truly know the EXACT number and that arguing over the EXACT number is an irrelevant academic question given what we do know.

How about we get real data so we know if it is 1 or 10 or 100 or 1000 before we start coining it a genocide.

How are we going to get "real data?" Do you have a flux capacitor in your sock drawer? Or do you mean data you agree with because it shows those jew bastards are liars?

Historians have been poring over existing documentation for decades now and have come to varying estimates (yes, estimates are all we're going to really have) as to the full extent of the killing. However, we don't have to know the full extent as even conservative estimates are so horrific.

So, you tell me, how many people does it take to have a genocide?

Nice dodge.

Genocide isn't about numbers, it's about intent.

"Despite believing that communication was 100% secure thanks to the enigma machine...."

1) Enigma was for that sort of communication.

2) The Germans never though Enigma was 100% secure, given they changed the rotors in it at least once.

You don't even realize when you are in the deep end of the pool.

There is no blue staining on the walls of the 'gas chambers',

Liar.

"What reams of data....?"

We'll start small---What organization was in charge of the camps, and what person was in charge of that organization?

WHUPS---Enigma WASN'T for that sort of communication.

Tell me, Mr. Nazis, do really think no German documentation of what occured in the camps has ever been discovered?

However, we don't have to know the full extent as even conservative estimates are so horrific.

Conservative numbers based on what exactly? I have destroyed all of the attempts on this board to provide any sort of physical evidence. Really, if the number is 6M, would it this difficult to find some kind of physical evidence? Here is an idea, we use ground penetrating radar to see the size of the burial pits. Based on the amount of ash in the pits, we can estimate how many people that amounts to given we know how much ash is produced by a cremation. Oh, that's right, researchers tried that and could not find any burial pits. Or, we could dig and see how many teeth (teeth would survive cremation) we can find - we know how many teeth are in a full set so once again easy math. Damn, can't do that without the burials pits. Well, we can just ask the eye-witnesses that dumped the ashes into the pits. Oops, tried that too and the pits are not where the said they were.

I'd like to point out you're doing it again. Who ran the camps, Mr. Nazis?

"Researchers tried and could find no burial pits..."

Contemporary photos (German) of mass burials, often of the freshly executed, are commonly available.

There is no blue staining on the walls of the 'gas chambers',
Liar

From your link at scrapbook:

#137 | Posted by goodlittlenazi

You seem to be quite good at stacking a debate to your favor.

Why the obsession with the burial pits when, as Zed points out, there are tons of photographs available of bodies lying in heaps? Could it be because unless you focus on what you consider a debunked claim you have nothing? That's what I'm betting.

You never answered my question above-what is the magic number of jews that it's OK to kill? Is that number different than the magic number for gypsies, gays, retards ect?

The window was too high to reach. Hard to break it while you're suffocating anyway, isn't it?

You're a monster. Do you realize this?

"You might argue the Jews were the dumbest persons on the planet and decided not to break the window..."

I'm sure none of them would be shot for doing that.

I'm confused...WHY? were those Jews in that camp such that they required delousing? All of them were communists?

but it is too high up on the wall to be useful for observing the people inside.

So, what...the jews are supposed to be Michael Jordan and jump that high to the window, THEN break it while being gassed? This, after being starved and shuffled across the country in a train, and while frightened out of their minds.

It's amazing how badly you've been beaten in this thread, and how you don't even notice it.

WHUPS---Enigma WASN'T for that sort of communication.
Tell me, Mr. Nazis, do really think no German documentation of what occured in the camps has ever been discovered?

Enigma was not used to transmit data that they wanted to stay 100% secure? How did they use it then - to transmit sports scores?

Given that you feel there are reams of data from Nazi's confirming the holocaust, can you please link to one? Raul Hilberg probably should be altered as well. Hilberg is one of the authorities on the official story and he wrote:

But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures. They [these measures] were taken step by step, one step at a time. Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus -- mind reading by a far-flung bureaucracy.

Quoted in: George De Wan, "The Holocaust in Perspective," Newsday (Long Island, New York), Feb. 23, 1983, p. II/3. Also quoted in the Summer 1985 Journal, pp. 170-171.

So, if you know of documents that the man that literally wrote the book on the holocaust didn't, you might be on to something groundbreaking here.

Why the obsession with the burial pits when, as Zed points out, there are tons of photographs available of bodies lying in heaps? Could it be because unless you focus on what you consider a debunked claim you have nothing? That's what I'm betting.

The nazi's executed some as partisan fighters, which is legal under the law at the time. The remainder of the bodies shown are typically typhus victims. If you look at the actual photos from the camp liberations, you will see some people are thin and some people are normal. The people that are think are suffering from typhus - see some non-WWII pictures of typhus victims and that will make it clear for you. This is also the reason for cremations. Burying a typhus victim will contaminate the ground water.

So, what...the jews are supposed to be Michael Jordan and jump that high to the window, THEN break it while being gassed?

Once again, from your own link:
"The gas chambers were built of ceramic brick, covered with a ferro-concrete roof, and provided with a cement floor. The installation comprised three chambers: a large one (10 m x 5.5 m x 2 m) and two smaller ones (4.80 m x 3.60 x 2 m)

Now, maybe the metric system is throwing you off, but that gives a ceiling height of 6'9". Given the window starts slightly down from the ceiling and extends - what 1 foot, 18 inches maybe? - I would not think it would require Michael Jordan. The only people that would not break out the window is if the nazis were gassing the 7 dwarves. Unless you think jews are all under 4' in height, your argument is again, soundly defeated.

It's amazing how badly you've been beaten in this thread, and how you don't even notice it.

Only in your own mind. I have beaten every challenge you have brought thus far and you think you are winning?

The only people that would not break out the window is if the nazis were gassing...

I want to see how much glass breaking you can do while being hit with Zyklon-B. After being brought to the camp packed in a train like a sardine. After being scared witless and starved.

I really want to see how well you'd do, GI JOE.

"The remainder of the bodies are typically typhus victims...."

Get that from the Wayback Machine, Mr. Peabody?

Am interested to discover there is a data base of 1.2 million photos of mass graves and burials during WWII.

I know the answer to this, but how many photos of contemporary German origin and description would a nazi have to see before accepting them as evidence?

"I have beaten every challenge...."

You are truly stupid.

This is ridiculous. A number for genocide? Let's say 10,000 deaths is a genocide. Especially when they are targeted for something like race or religion.

So, if we believe your figure of 360,000 deaths, then the Nazis committed genocide 36-fold.

If you believe the more commonly accepted figures in the millions, then its closer to 300-600 fold.

I'm just curious, little Nazi, why is 36-fold genocide acceptable? Because it was committed against those horrible Jews, who dared oppose Hitler's politics? Was it because the Jews controlled much of the banking in Germany, and WWI resulted in hyper-inflation? Was it because some lying scumbag piece-of-shit Nazi made a false confession about how many people he actually murdered? Is it because genocide has occured at other points in history?

What makes this genocide acceptable to you? Or are you just evil?

"So if you know of documents...?"

Wansee Conference ring a bell? Not all participants destroyed their notes.

The nazi's executed some as partisan fighters, which is legal under the law at the time. The remainder of the bodies shown are typically typhus victims. If you look at the actual photos from the camp liberations, you will see some people are thin and some people are normal. The people that are think are suffering from typhus - see some non-WWII pictures of typhus victims and that will make it clear for you. This is also the reason for cremations. Burying a typhus victim will contaminate the ground water.

Words don't exist to describe the utter stupidity of this individual.

Fine, running with the above statement for the sake of argument-Are the nazis not culpable for creating the conditions for millions to die of typhus? Is the negligence of not helping those millions of typhus victims a crime as well?

your argument is again, soundly defeated.

Not at all. You just make conveniently simplistic arguments and run with them while ignoring any and all objections or counterpoints, then declare victory.

Hmmmmmm that sound familiar. Jeff is that you?

I have beaten every challenge you have brought thus far and you think you are winning?

You haven't even risen to them.

Only in a small pathetic mind would pictures from camps be written off as simply typhus victims and therefore, everything is not as bad as it seems. Really, the Nazis are just misunderstood.

So GLN's arguments can be summed up in just a few sentences:

Hitler only wanted to "resettle" the Jews.
Once the Jews were placed in the camps, the Nazis had no more responsibility for them.
The fact that Jews got typhus, and starved, while the guards didn't is just an amazing coincidence.
Publishers are the actual writers of diaries.

I have to say, this is one of the most interesting threads I have ever read here. I have heard of holocaust deniers but haven't witnessed a debate nor seen the argument posted by GLN.

I never knew what deniers were basing their position on until now.

You have to wonder (like all conspiracy theories) about the unanswered questions posed by GLN.

You just make conveniently simplistic arguments and run with them while ignoring any and all objections or counterpoints, then declare victory.

Hmmmmmm that sound familiar. Jeff is that you?

I prefer to relate this behavior to buffalobob personally.

This guy is like Real Story reincarnated.

But honestly, I think Real Story debated at a level WAYYYYYYYYY above this kid.

Antisemitism is a puzzling thing. It is at the root of Good Little Hitler buttbuddy and manypaths deranged postings here.

I want to see how much glass breaking you can do while being hit with Zyklon-B. After being brought to the camp packed in a train like a sardine. After being scared witless and starved.

According to the "eye-witnesses", it took 30 minutes to kill someone with zyclon-b. This is not technically correct, but let's ignore that for a moment. In that 30 minutes, the people inside knowing that poison gas is being sublimated from zyclon-b pellets could simply accept their fate and take a deep breath, or they could break the shoulder level window to let in air and let out the poison gas saving themselves. In your narrative, in the thousands of gassings, no one tried to break the window. Okay, I see where your cognitive skills are at....Just as a test of your intellectual honesty, are you going to admit that you made an ass of yourself with your michael jordan comment? I see you moved on the 'packed too tight' argument, but I would counter by saying another means of escape was by using the door, which did not have a lock on it.

One of the big surprizes from the New Jersey roundup of Mayors and Rabbis was that the Israeli Army harvests human organs from Palestinian youth. Targeting trouble makers in the street, they shoot them in the knees, haul them off in an ambulance and return stitched up corpses to the parents. In New Jersey they were pocketing up to $60,000 per organ.

Having been given their own country as Arab penance for German crimes agsint their humanity we now must watch Israel repeat man's sordid history. If mankind cannot learn and change after the lessons of WWII there is no hope for this planet. Israel has a special responsibility to treat their enemies in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

"You have to wonder (like all conspiracy theories) about the unanswered questions posed by GLN."

Like the bullshit claim someone else wrote the diaries? A simple Google search proves his "unanswered question" a total red herring.

little but buddy.

no matter how I try with my bare hands, I could not break the window I am sitting next to in my office building.

I know you are trying like hell to portray your nazi heroes as bumbling incompetents to support your theories, but they were not. The glass pane was thick enough that without a tool of some sort, there is no way they could break the window.

Now you'll probably say that out of those 360,000 (your heavily researched number) zionist bastards, one would be clever and sneaky enough to bring in a rock shoved up their anus and shit it out while being gassed and break the window and they would all run off to freedom and therefore those fine nazi warriors never could have done it.

Wansee Conference ring a bell? Not all participants destroyed their notes.

Just so we are all on the same page here, the Wansee Conference upon which the Final Solution was decided - was not attended by a single high ranking nazi official. You can check this as the attendees were listed in the document. Further, there at at a minumum of 20 points on the minutes which would point to the documents being a poor attempt at forgery. This goes from the poor usage of German in the document (terminology and grammar that a native speaker would not use - such as a decimal point rather than a coma when discussing %'s) to the use of the latin 'ss' as opposed to the runic 'ss' that was used on all official business. Further, the minutes mentions people current positions as job functions that were eliminated as far back as the Wiemar Republic. If that is not enough, all the know 'copies' despite claims to be duplicates, all contain unique irregularites proving that they are anyting but. Lastly, and I am just summarizing as their are many, many more examples, the delivery dates posted on the minutes and invitational letters state that delivery (from a sender in Berlin to recipients within Berlin) took over a month. Seems highly strange that the German postal system was so inefficient much less that this supposedly 'extremely important', 'secret' meeting did not use a courrier. But, if those issues don't bother you, it is much easier to just smile and accept the 'official' story.

I have to say, this is one of the most interesting threads I have ever read here. I have heard of holocaust deniers but haven't witnessed a debate nor seen the argument posted by GLN.

Eberly - I challenge you to read the evidence, even if just from the official exterminationsim viewpoint with a critical eye and view towards physical evidence and not have doubts arise.

GLN, we have the luxury of the past 70 years or so to examine all of this.

Why the conspiracy? why cover up all of these facts? Sympathy for the jews?

So, I take it that GLN is the same lame Holocaust denier that Rcade ended up finally booting not so long ago? Just here using a different name?

Like the bullshit claim someone else wrote the diaries? A simple Google search proves his "unanswered question" a total red herring.

#159 | Posted by Danforth

Okay, so you disagree with the German archives and their forensic experts - fair enough. The archives verified that all letter and entries (3600 in all) were written by the same hand. Why would Levin had to 'help' Otton Frank with anything if all of the documents were straight from Anne? Why would a historical novelist (whose books before Anne Frank all had similar holocaust narratives) be employed by Otto Frank and sue him for royalties if the diary came straight from Anne? Why would Otto Frank settle out of court? What other things in life do you take in an unquestioning blind faith way?

He shouldn't be booted.

This is interesting anyway. I don't know why I am drawn to such stuff. I love these threads.....I really don't know why though.

Eberly: Ever slow down on the freeway to look at a car wreck??

GLN, we have the luxury of the past 70 years or so to examine all of this.

Why the conspiracy? why cover up all of these facts? Sympathy for the jews?

I would have to put forth the following:
1.) Allies committed war crimes (Hiroshima, Dresden, etc) so the best defense is a good offense showing how awful the nazis were
2.) Soviets framing the nazis to cover up their own crimes - this is the case with Katyn Forrest Killins of 10K+ Poles that the Russians blamed on the Germans until admitting the truth in 1989
3.) Allies wanted end Facism/Nazism. The Germans were committed to the Nazi's so they needed to find something so horrible that it would make them turn their backs on them forever as record shows the Germans economically, etc benefited greatly under National Socialism.
4.) War reparations - this is one the biggest reasons why it is still around today. Not only the 100's of billions paid by German, but the roughly $2T (in present value dollars) given by the US, etc.

In my opinion, I believe the higher ups in the Allies thought the truth would come out eventually so they never really supported the story - Churchhill, Eisenhower, etc did not have 1 word regarding the holocaust in either of their biographies despite it seemingly being the single biggest justification for WWII. I think they would be surprised the life the holocaust industry has taken on and the influence of mass media. For the last 50 years, people tend to get most of their information spoon fed to them from movies, TV, etc so the story had a lot more staying power than they ever could have imagined.

On the other hand, I was not there so I don't know the truth one way or the other. I do know for a fact that a lot of 'evidence' is fake/physically impossible/contradictory but I know that have seen but a small part of the real history. I know that the jews were persecuted and unfairly imprisoned. I do know that many died while in the camps - and those deaths are unforgiveable as the people were confined solely on the basis of religion, sexual orientation, etc which is absolutely wrong. I am not saying that the nazi were good people, all I am saying is that I would like to know what really happened. What if someone said that Charlie Manson killed JFK. I could say, yep, Charlie is crazy so he probably did it and it doesn't really matter because he is already evil and in jail anyway, 1 or 10 murders does not matter, he is a murder. Or, I could say, I don't know if he did it or not but I would like to research to see exactly what happened out of respect for the dead and in puruit of the truth.

Its always good to see holes shot in generally accepted cultural truths. For this reason I appreciate the GoodLittleNazi's input, even though I never read the book and do not think for a minute that GLNs facts change my or anyone's understanding of WWII. It does not lessin the plight of Jews or Russians during WWII or Palestianians today. It just forces one to place Otton into the common category of people who lie for money and power. He's dead, so its all water under the bridge.

"and sue him for royalties"

It wasn't over the diary. It was because a different version of the stage play was used instead of his.

"What other things in life do you take in an unquestioning blind faith way?"

Too funny, coming from such an obvious Stormfront fan. You either deliberately or ignorantly lied about why Otto Frank was sued. Why?

"Anne Frank's diary has become one of the deniers' most popular targets," wrote Deborah Lipstadt (left) in her 1993 book Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory. "For more than 30 years, they have tried to prove that it was written after the war. It would seem to be a dubious allocation of the deniers' energies that they try to prove that a small book by a young girl full of musings about her life, relationship with her parents, emerging sexuality and movie stars was not really written by her. But they have chosen their target purposefully."

Their reason, according to Lipstadt: "The diary's popularity and impact, particularly on the young, make discrediting it as important a goal for the deniers as their attack on the gas chambers."

The deniers' usual thrust is to assert that the diary was actually written after World War II by American author Meyer Levin, who reviewed the a original edition for The New York Times in 1952 but later became embroiled in a bitter lawsuit against Otto Frank. Levin, who had hoped to write the script for the Broadway production, alleged that Frank had permitted plagiarism of his (Levin's) work by the playwrights actually chosen.

The suit was settled out of court, but Levin's allegations formed the basis for such screeds as a 1967 American Mercury magazine article titled, "Was Anne Frank's Diary a Hoax?" The British historian David Irving, not a Holocaust denier but a redoubtable Holocaust diminisher, repeated the charge in 1975 that an American court had "proved" a New York scriptwriter had produced the diary "in collaboration with the girl's father."

After Otto Frank's death in 1980, the original diary pages were given to the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation. As Lipstadt summed it up, "The conclusions of the forensic experts were unequivocal: The diaries were written by one person during the period in question. The emendations were of a limited nature and varied from a single letter to three words. They did not in any way alter the meaning of the text when compared to the earlier version." And the writing was in the same hand that had penned the cards and letters Anne sent to classmates in previous years.

"And the writing was in the same hand that had penned the cards and letters Anne sent to classmates in previous years."

Gee...so much for the Meyer Levin bullshit.

Unless, of course, Meyer was sending cards & letters to Anne's friends before he knew she existed.

Nutcase. I know its a bit disingenuous, but the CIA did not do the torturing. They accepted the 'intellegence' as it were, obtained from the torturing.

"Giving evidence on Thursday, Mr Murray spoke of cooperation among national intelligence services when dealing with terrorism suspects detained in countries like Uzbekistan, where he was the British ambassador from 2002 to 2004. He said he had hard evidence that the Uzbek intelligence services often torture detainees. He said the CIA and the British intelligence service MI6 did not participate in such interrogations, but they shared the information obtained from them.

"I saw evidence of scores of cases of torture in Uzbekistan: people boiled to death, photos of serious injuries, mutilation of genitals, rape of individuals in front of their relatives... until they would sign a confession," Mr Murray said. When he tried to share his concern with the UK Foreign Office by sending several letters and faxes, he was finally told that "Jack Straw discussed the issue with the head of the MI6 and reached the conclusion that we should continue to receive intelligence material obtained from confessions under torture and that this would not contravene the UN Convention against Torture ", since the UK government did not torture people directly. He said Foreign Office legal advisor Michael Wood replied in a letter that the UN Convention against torture only forbids information obtained under torture "to be invoked as evidence in any proceedings".

"In this way, the British formal position can be maintained when they say 'we do not condone, use or instigate torture,'" Mr Murray added. He said he had continued to protest, which led to him being forced to leave the civil service. Mr Murray said these events left a " lack of credibility of the intelligence material obtained, intended to paint the false picture that Uzbekistan opposition people were linked to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden "."

"It just forces one to place (Otto) into the common category of people who lie for money and power."
~Nutcase

What a pile of shit. All it does is force people to look at Nutcase as a nutcase.

Eberly: Ever slow down on the freeway to look at a car wreck??

I try very hard to avoid doing that. Rubbernecks are the reason for traffic pileups more than the wreck itself.

But it is tempting......

Jesus Christ, Manypaths, I always knew you were an asshole but I never really realized that you were a Jew hating Nazi as well. What a pathetic human being you are.

"Just so we are all on the same page here"

- That will never happen hitlerbuttbuddy.

Technically the CIA never does anything. In order to maintain plausible deniability, they use surrogates. But they did fly those tortured suspects into Uzbekistan and waited with baited breath for the results. Same thing in Egypt, except those Ambassadors aren't talking.

Oh, come on dan,

A place in History for "The Diary of Anne Frank" is assured regardless how many editors got their hands on it. You misunderstand me completely.

ummmmm. That is not what your article said. It was in specific reference to Uzbekistanians, not folks flown into Uzbekistan.

. . . lack of credibility of the intelligence material obtained, intended to paint the false picture that Uzbekistan opposition people were linked to Al Qaeda and Bin Laden "."

but wasn't the "original" diary written with a ball point pen? that is a device that didn't exist at the time of the alleged incidents.

is the diary a hoax along the lines of weisenthal's "night"?

not a holocaust denier here, but just when can we start to separate the propaganda from the truth from evetrns that happened 50+ years ago?

Go to the link I provided post 171. Or just read my post.

The propaganda comes from the deniers. Some nutjob will say something like: I heard it was written with a ball point pen! And then really gullible antisemites start jacking themselves off.

LITTLE NAZIS-

Reinhard Heydrich, Heydrich the Butcher, "Himmler's Evil Genius", sometimes put forward as a successor to Hitler, attended Wansee.Not only a high-ranking Nazi, but easily one of the worst.

You are indeed a strange fellow. I'd personally want a bell around your neck, to be warned of your approach.

"The Wansee Conference, in which the Final Solution was decided..."

After all this crap you concede there was such a thing. What a rube.

"I know that people died in the camps and those deaths are unforgiveable..."

Pardon me when I point out that, given the content and tenor of your arguments to date, you're full of shit with this remark.

"regardless how many editors got their hands on it. You misunderstand me completely."

The forensic experts said all the entries were written with the same hand, that hand had also written cards and letters to Anne's friends before the diary, and any alterations were between one and three letters, suggesting spelling corrections at best. If you're suggesting "editors" got to it, I'm not misunderstanding you at all.

Islamists are no different than Hezbollah, they are already in the process of eliminating America's constitution, and other freedoms
from within the U.S., and the U.S.'s now Muslim led government, under O'Loudmouth, Himself an admitted Muslim...

Islamists are no different than Hezbollah, they are already in the process of eliminating America's constitution, and other freedoms
from within the U.S., and the U.S.'s now Muslim led government, under O'Loudmouth, Himself an admitted Muslim...

Posted by Dr_Feelgood at 2009-11-11 11:03 PM | Reply Eats paint chips

zyclon-b was used for delousing as lice carried typhus.

zOMFG!

Li'l Nazi Asswipe is actually trying to argue that all those "delousing chambers" were actually delousing chambers?!

Wot next?

Work *WILL* set you free?

This debate was first put in play by the Nazi's themselves when, at the end of the war, they dynamited the vast majority of the extermination chambers (effectively standard delousing chambers modified for mass murder) and left the other delousing chambers intact.

There were two types of gas chambers in Auschwitz: those used for delousing clothes ("delousing gas chambers") and those used for killing people on a massive scale ("extermination gas chambers"). The delousing gas chambers were a standard feature, and were left intact by the SS (the extermination gas chambers were dynamited in an effort to conceal criminal traces).

Holocaust denial asserts that because more Hydrocyanic compounds were found in the delousing chambers in Auschwitz than in the ruins of the extermination gas chambers, mass murder using the gas could not have taken took place within, because the reverse would be true.

Oh my, where to start....

I suspose I should not be surprise that MANYPATHS likes to dance pretty close to holocaust denial.

And REDLIGHTROBOT gives a whole heap of stupidity with his 'Mossad / 911' crap and related crap.

TO REDLIGHTROBOT: I want you to know that I PERSONALLY took part in the killing of a number the scum bags you like so much over in the sandbox. I sadly cannot claim to be a trigger puller, but I damn well knew that my work contributed DIRECTLY to the VIOLENT DEATHS of the sorts the you like. Have a nice day.

CONCENTRATION CAMPS

A few folks have mentioned Concentration camps, and the true historic fact that many countries have used them.

NOTE FOR IDIOTS: Not all concentration camps are created equal. YES, THAT MEANS WHAT IS HORRID FOR NAZIS IS "NOT" AS HORRID FOR OTHERS.

NOTE FOR IDIOTS: The Nazis don't condemned for concentration camps. THEY GET CONDEMNED FOR WHAT THEY DID IN THEM.

The first 'modern' Concentration camps I'm aware of were used by the British in the Boar Wars. I've read mixed reports about them, but two things shine seem obvious: They were NOT even SLIGHTLY "death camps", but they were no picnic either.

Commie Concentration Camps (Re-education) have a distinct tendency to be death camps.

But westerns ones, not so much. Heck, while a whole host of property crimes and restriction of freedom crimes were inflicted on Japanese Americans, the inmates of the American camps were as healthy, or healthier, than the populations around them.

It's probably best not to call others "idiots" and reference "stupidity" when writing a screed that could have been penned by a 6 year old.

I suspose I should not be surprise that MANYPATHS likes to dance pretty close to holocaust denial.

I don't doubt the holocaust and I don't doubt the Nazi bastards that participated in it. It's clear that people in here are jumping to false conclusions about me and what I have said.

One thing, I use the word Zionist for a reason. It's your fault if you confuse that with Jew. Don't blame me for your confusion.

Secondly, why don't you answer the questions instead of letting your inability to answer them effectively cloud what I have ben saying.

I don't like Zionists. You think I hate Jews.

I don't like Zioists. You think I am a Nazi lover.

You have no idea how stupid you look from where I am sitting. It is clear that this discussion is over your head as you simply don't get it.

MANYPATHS SAID:

"
I have always wondered why we Americans were forced to read the 'Story' of a poor little Jewish girl who the Germans treated so badly.

Then I realized it was all made up by the Zionists and they are still getting away with it today.

Force Feed that shit into the minds of American school kids so they can all pity the poor jews.

Those Zionists are ruthless fucking bastards, but they are fucking smart.

They got their Country didn't they?

"Cui Bono" folks.
"

AGAIN:

"Then I realized it was all made up by the Zionists and they are still getting away with it today."

If that is not 'dancing with holocaust denial', then it IS holocaust denial, because it sure as heck is nothing less then flirting with holocaust denial.

When I was first typing, I started to type that you denied the holocaust. But I did not, because your comment was not outright denial. But to claim it did not dance REALLY CLOSE to denial is absurd.

Manypaths wins the tool of the month award on the DR. Check out how accusatory he gets when white people bitch about a brother punching a lady in the face.

Fucking tool

No idiot, I am implying that the Zionists had a hand in it. But you are not able to grasp that concept. Do you know anything about the Nazis and the Zionists?

Cui Bono? (I see you continue to ignore that)

MANYPATHS

If you don't flirt with holocaust denial, but want to base zonists, try the following:

"Yes, Jews were victimized by the nazis in a manner unique in the modern age for its combination of focus and severity.

Yes, Anne Frank, an innocent child, was murdered in a horrid death camp. Her murderers killed her, an innocent child, with focused and delibate intent, as much as if they'd put a gun to her head, looked her over for a few minutes, asked her how old she was, and THEN pulled the trigger. They did this for no other reason than her religion.

Yes, Anne Frank's story is one story of OVER 10 million, 6 million of them jewish.

But NONE of that justifies militant Zionism in any way shape or form. If anything, militant zionism, by its mere existance, takes big smell shit on the memory of Anne Frank"

You did not say the above MANYPATHS. You just said it was all made up. You, AT MINIMUM, flirt with holocaust denial. (or spoke clumisly, which I've done from time to time, but less than some of you might claim. Case in point: I said you "danced" with holocaust denial. I did not say you practiced outright denial. I stand by my statement.)

base zonist = bash zonists**

She wasn't murdered.

They call the holocaust the "Final Solution". Who do you think coined that phrase and when?

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained "we must, above all, make it an international political issue. Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome "final solution of the Jewish question." In his "Diaries", page 19, Herzl stated "Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies."

You see, Hitler and the Nazis killing millions of Jew for the sake of being Jews just doesn't make a lot of sense. Can we agree that no matter how horrible it was, how evil Hitler was, it just doesn't make fucking sense. What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain???? There HAD to be more behind it. There just had to be in order for it all to make sense.

Enter the Zionists......

"She wasn't murdered."

You're right.

A defenseless baby or elderly person who dies after being starved and denied basic medical care isn't "murdered" either...technically.

Where did the Air Force guy go? I though we were just starting to clear up some confusion.

MANYPATHS said:

"
Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained "we must, above all, make it an international political issue. Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome "final solution of the Jewish question." In his "Diaries", page 19, Herzl stated "Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies."

You see, Hitler and the Nazis killing millions of Jew for the sake of being Jews just doesn't make a lot of sense. Can we agree that no matter how horrible it was, how evil Hitler was, it just doesn't make fucking sense. What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain???? There HAD to be more behind it. There just had to be in order for it all to make sense.

Enter the Zionists......
"

I stand corrected....... MANYPATHS is WORSE than a holocaust denier. He thinks its was the Elders of Zion that did it.

Care to talk it through or are you going to just be a denier?

What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain????

Don't let your emotions get the best of you there buddy. If you are uncomfortable having a discussion about this that's fine. But why would it make you uncomfortable?

How about you try changing my mind. There are many people, and many Jews, that think the same way I do.

Why? Because it makes sense out of the whole horrible thing. But you are afraid to even look at it.

Why?

He thinks its was the Elders of Zion that did it.

Cui bono?

"What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain?"

A deflection of blame away from domestic problems, like high unemployment and high inflation. They were still smarting from WW1. The Caen Museum in Normandy explains it all. You literally follow the spiral downward.

No I don't Dan. I look at the stated goals of the Zionist movement, their collaborations with the Nazis and the end result of the holocaust.

And I'm not the only one. Many Jews feel the same way.

***"You see, Hitler and the Nazis killing millions of Jew for the sake of being Jews just doesn't make a lot of sense."***

They didn't kill them just "for the sake of killing Jews." As Danforth said, they were scapegoats for all that was wrong with Germany. It was all made out to be their fault. Stab in the back theory, infultration of the government by communist Jews...

So there was never any collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists? Is that what you are trying to claim?

I understand how uncomforatble it is to look at this like this. It's uncomfortable by design. You can't even question it at the scene of the crime or you go to jail. Hmmmmmmmmmm? Why would that be?

And for many Americans born after the fact, what was the first thing they learned about this horrible event?

Poor little Anne Frank. And they never questioned a thing after.

MANYPATHS

You are a coward, and vicious idiot who smiles and speaks platitudes while you paint over the blood of murdered children.

Holocaust making SENSE for Germany???

No.

The holocaust fitting nicely in the historic context of european anti-semitism, yes, it does do that.

Anti semistism in europe has a long and, SADLY FOR YOU, well documented history. Pogroms (an old word specific for wide spread anti-jewish violence) are an ancient tradition in parts of europe (and some parts of middle east). SENSE??? No. But they happened. Hitler was raised as euro-white trash in one of the most bigottd cities on the planet at that time, and he tapped into an ANCIENT festering sore in his pursuit of power. But unlike many politicans who have done similar things, HE BELIEVED, heart and rotten soul.

Thank God Ike ordered that things be documented. He said he KNEW one day people like you would come along.

You are not "just asking questions" MANYPATHS. You are being complicient in trying to white wash the murder of Anne Frank and MILLIONS like her.

That you spread your contaminated 'logic' further by using on other subjects just makes you more of a dirt bag. I've personally TAKEN PART in killing the violent murdering thugs that follow your logic, and continue to do so today, if from a sadly distant and removed position. I can't claim to be a trigger puller, but I did my bit in the sandbox.

See, I told you it was uncomfortable. Just look at yourself.

You are being complicient in trying to white wash the murder of Anne Frank and MILLIONS like her.

I say you are. I am the one here willing to look at all the perpetrators of those crimes. You are the one sticking your head in the sand and refuse to look at the logical possibilities.

I say you're the fucking coward.

"No I don't Dan. I look at the stated goals of the Zionist movement, their collaborations with the Nazis and the end result of the holocaust. And I'm not the only one. Many Jews feel the same way."

Allow me to introduce you to some friends of mine with tattooed numbers on their arms. I'm sure they'd be interested in hearing your cockamamie theory of collaboration.

btw...you take no offense at being spit on, do you?

I'm not saying it didn't happen Dan. I am saying those Zionist bastards made it happen for a reason.

It accomplished their main goal didn't it? You can't deny that.

"How far this unbelievable Zionist conspiracy has captured the Jewish masses, and how impossible it is for any different thought to penetrate their minds, even to the point of mere evaluation, can be seen in the vehemence of the reaction to any reproach. With blinded eyes and closed ears, any voice raised in protest and accusation is immediately suppressed and deafened by the thousandfold cry: "Traitor," "Enemy of the Jewish People."

- by Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann

Boy, the Rabbi sure hit the nail on the head didn't he. Called you all out to a T.

"It accomplished their main goal didn't it?"

Yeah...if their main goal was near-extermination.

About a year ago, I did a stage production of AND THEN THEY CAME FOR ME, a story of two friends of Anne's, mentioned in her diary, who both survived. One day, we did the performance for Holocaust survivors and their families and the support personnel from the local area. It was, without a doubt, the most intense theatrical experience of my life. We all felt very strange, telling these people's stories to them. Every horror we described, they had lived through, and then some. The ugliness of the lines came out in full color once we realized these folks had heard all this hatred before, and it had been purposely aimed at them. Afterward, we had an amazing Talkback, where survivor after survivor told harrowing tales, including one woman who leaped off the truck as it was headed to the chambers. "I decided", she proclaimed, in her still-thick accent, "they were not going to kill me. Only Gott was going to kill me!"

The concept the Jews' "main goal" was Israel is moronic.

"the Rabbi sure hit the nail on the head didn't he."

BFD. I'm sure I can find blacks who minimize lynchings and slavery, Muslims who believe their religion is murderous, and self-admitted homosexuals who deride gays.

The concept the Jews' "main goal" was Israel is moronic.

I have already asked that people not confuse Zionists and Jews. Could you please try to understand that they are not the same and I have been very clear in distinguising between the 2.

Please do not try to change what I am saying.

Do you know the level of hate that Orthodox Jews have towards the Zionist movement?

Do you think I am just making this shit up? Look into it.

"Do you think I am just making this shit up? "

Of course.

You actually asked what Hitler and the Nazis "had to gain". Only an agenda-driven ignoramus would need that question answered.

I said it didn't make enough sense Dan and it doesn't. It does make sense when you throw in the established collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists though.

"Do you think I am just making this shit up? "

Of course.

That just shows your ignorance on the subject. You make the Zionists proud.

I've personally TAKEN PART in killing the violent murdering thugs that follow your logic, and continue to do so today, if from a sadly distant and removed position. I can't claim to be a trigger puller, but I did my bit in the sandbox.

I understand what you're saying here, but I can't help but notice a sad irony in your statements.

murdering thugs that follow your logic

"That just shows your ignorance on the subject."

This, from the guy who doesn't think Hitler or the Nazis had anything to gain.

You make the stupid proud.

***"Do you know the level of hate that Orthodox Jews have towards the Zionist movement?"

The Orthodox Jews don't agree with the Zionist because they feel like Zionist put country ahead of religion. That in and of itself does not bolster your arguement

"It does make sense when you throw in the established collaboration between the Nazis and the Zionists though."***

Maybe it's buried somewhere in the thread, if so just refer me to that post #, but could you provide some evidence supporting this claim? I would be interested to see where this goes.

Come on Dan. You're no loon. You can make an argument without twisting my words. I never said what you claim.

Why did Adolph Eichmann visit Palestine as a guest of the Zionists in the 30's?

The holocaust was A LOT bigger than Hitler was a bad guy. You should look into it. The trail is shocking.

JPW

Its the difference between a evil sub-human thug carefully placing a loaded gun to to the head of a small child who has committed no crime, carefully looking at the innocent child, and then pulling the trigger......

....and an airman in a B-17 over and industrial center, dropping several tons of bombs that will kill whatever they hit, child or soldier, if they are near the target area, (and that assumes aim is good...).

The later man is the ONLY way to stop the former man. If you don't support the later man, you support the former man, even if you say you support niether. Deliberate/waffling inaction is CHOICE to let the former man do as he pleases.

"You can make an argument without twisting my words."

Your exact words were "What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain???" You're a moron.

"The holocaust was A LOT bigger than Hitler was a bad guy. You should look into it."

I have looked into it, several times. Including lengthy eyewitness accounts.

You're a good little accepter Dan.

"To attain its practical objectives, Zionism hopes it will be able to collaborate with a government that is fundamentally hostile to the Jews".

Since you have looked into it, which Zionist leader said that?

Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo. Hitler himself personally supported Zionism. During the 1930's, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized "Kibbutz" training camps over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of "Israel".

I know you want to think I am just making this stuff up but sadly I am not.

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

A Zionist leader admitting he would sacrafice half of the worlds Jews in exchange for a Jewish State in Palestine. Again, I am not making this stuff up.

f you don't support the later man, you support the former man, even if you say you support niether. Deliberate/waffling inaction is CHOICE to let the former man do as he pleases.

Absolutely not. Oversimplifying a situation in order to claim the righteous high ground should tell you something.

I never said the latter man should remain inactive, just that the gleeful killing (indiscriminate or otherwise) of any individual blurs the line between the righteous and evil.

You see, Hitler and the Nazis killing millions of Jew for the sake of being Jews just doesn't make a lot of sense. Can we agree that no matter how horrible it was, how evil Hitler was, it just doesn't make fucking sense. What did Hitler, the Nazis or Germany have to gain???? There HAD to be more behind it. There just had to be in order for it all to make sense.

Enter the Zionists......

#200 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-11-12 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag

The Zionists wanted a homeland-yes. That is historical fact. The process of creating that homeland actually began in Venice in the 1880's at a meeting of high level Jewish folks from all points of Europe who had been banished, moved around and generally fucked with for the past 2000 years.

They wanted a homeland.

And they weren't stupid. So they started buying land in the local area of what is now Israel.

Side note, when WWI broke out, Jewish Germans volunteered their services to the Kaiser. They wanted to fight for the homeland. But they were rejected by the Kaiser.

But now you imply that Zionists made some sort of a deal with the Nazi's to kill off a few million of their brethren in order to garner international sympathy?

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your brain??

"If I knew it was possible to save all the children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution. For we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

What's wrong with you eyes?

Those Zionists are ruthless fucking bastards, but they are fucking smart.

They got their Country didn't they?

"Cui Bono" folks.

#10 | Posted by Manypaths

Yes they are smart. See, common ground is something we can find.

Absent the holocaust and Balfour, would the international community have tolerated the invasion and occupation of the holy land? I wonder some times.

And then it freaks me out and I stop thinking about it.

Most people do Hag. I should. But that would mean I have to lose the desire to make sense out of the World and World events.

A saying I tell my soon to be Bride, "You think too much" works great on myself if I listen to it.

I guess that keeps me from having crusades against anyhting. Do I care about the Holocuast? Not really, aside from I hope it never happens again. Do I care about gays getting married. Not at all but I can't make any sense in not allowing them too. Do I care if women can have abortions? Not really, but I can't make sense of another person contorlling their birth canal. Yeah, I think too much, but at the end of the day, if there's a Sierra Nevada in the fridge and a hit in the pipe, it's a good day.

Ok, I just started typing and that's what came out. Not going to read it before posting. It is what it is.

then why do you hate them?

Hate who? The Zionists? I hate them for the same reason I hate Nazis. I think they killed a lot of innocent people.

JPW

I'll agree that glee mixed with violence, and even hatred mixed with violence, can poison virtuous intent.

I'm not saying it DOES poison. I'm saying it CAN poison it.

In fact, the only way to avoid poisoning virtuous intent is continued self examination. PEACEFUL virtuous intent is especially suseptable to such poisoning, due to the assumption that peace is always virtuous.

I'll freely admit that if I was a better man, I'd have less venom in my heart when thinking of turds like those who murdered Anne Frank.

But for those who argue that hate makes one unfit to practice violence for society to make that argument, they need to explain how the evil will be stopped cold.

Short of a rough man practicing direct violence, those who suggest peace have NO method of dealing with monsters. This in and of itself is unfortunate. But "some" who suggest peaceful methods then go on to suggest that there are no monsters, and in doing so, become evil themselves for making the CHOICE (self deluded or otherwise) to allow evil a free hand.

I won't call hatred of evil a good thing. But its a hell of a lot better than deluded peaceful inaction in the face of evil.

One example of my ideal fighting man is Warrent Officer Hugh Thompson Jr. Keep in mind that his REGULAR duty, that he had no argument with, was putting direct machinegun fire on hostiles, and directing indirect fire onto the same hostiles.

"You're a good little accepter Dan."

And you're a moron, MP. I've actually interviewed survivors. You?

"They got their Country didn't they?"

And that proves they wanted a Holocaust?!?

"we must take into account not only the lives of these children but also the history of the people of Israel."

Exactly. There was no guarantee Jews would be safe anywhere but a Jewish homeland. The Netherlands was supposed to be safe; the Nazis decided otherwise.

And you're a moron, MP. I've actually interviewed survivors. You?

Then why are you so ignorant to events leading up to it?

I am sure that most survivors believe the same shit you do. Others however do not. Some feel that the Zionists let their loved ones die on purpose. That purpose was to create a Jewish State. They didn't want to go to Palestine. They were forced too.

You should read up on it a little more. Some facinating stuff on the relationship between the Nazis and Zionists. Why are you in such denial of this relationship? Or are you simply afraid to even look?

#241 | POSTED BY USAF242

Dehumanizing individuals to make it easier to kill, regardless of what they've done is the issue I'm addressing. The soldiers who put a gun to civilians heads and pulled the trigger do deserve to die, however, remember they are still people.

Anyways, this is all sort of hollow coming from someone who has never had to kill another person.

Good luck man, stay safe for the rest of your time in.

"Then why are you so ignorant to events leading up to it?"

WTF are you talking about? You had no idea what Hitler and the Nazis had to gain. And no clue about the rampant unemployment, high inflation, or hurt nationalistic pride. You're probably completely unaware of the series of successive steps taken by the Nazis to categorically deny human rights to Jews, as well as the reasons Jews wouldn't have felt completely safe in England. You even went so far as to suggest Zionists brought on the Holocaust on purpose, so they could get expelled and thereby require a homeland. M-O-R-O-N.

"You should read up on it a little more."

Thanks, but I try to avoid websites like Stormfront.

And in the future, realize it's bad form to call someone ignorant after you've been woefully exposed as clueless.

Thanks, but I try to avoid websites like Stormfront.

Never heard of it. There you go just making shit up again. If you don't want to look into it than fine. But for you to try to claim that the Zionists and the Nazis weren't collaborating in the 30's then you don't know jack shit about the situation.

I don't accept the Zionist version of what happened, because I have explored the alternatives. You do because you haven't.

So we will have to agree to disagree.

"for you to claim I am some White Power skinhead tells me that you are so fucking clueless to what I have been saying."

You've been saying that Zionists willfully brought on the Holocaust. You're the fucking clueless asshole. You didn't even know why the Jews were being persecuted in the first place, and pretended Hitler and the Nazis had nothing to gain.

"And how in the hell did you know what Stormfront was?"

The same way I know what Westboro Baptist Church is, without having to be a bigot.

"Only a Zionist Pig or a Skin Head would know that"

Obviously, knowledge scares you. Like I said, you're a moron: you not only believe knowledge of something makes you one of them, you're completely ignorant of the events leading up to the Jewish persecution before WWII. Wallow in your stupidity, for all I care.

This thread illustrates that some people really attach themselves to a belief system and any viewpoint that differs from it is met with a lot of hostility and anger.

I'm not placing myself above such attributes as I'm sure I have gotten angry myself.

As far as this thread goes.....I see some interesting points on both sides. I never put any thought into the accepted truths about the holocausts and the questionable circumstances surrounding it.

Oh, and I forgot, Manypaths really pulled his skirt up on this thread.

JPW

Dehumanizing people is wrong. 100% agreed.

But some DO IT TO THEMSELVES, and it is still wrong, but to not respect the choice they made is WORSE.

I've never dehumanized a person in my life. But I damn well will respect the choice of a murdering bastard who makes a choice to do it to himself.

(Yes, I understand that some people believe that recognizing that someone has dehumanized THEMSELVES is dehumanization by the person recognizing what has happens. I disagree. Strongly.)

Its all about Free Will.

What did Hitler have to gain by killing Jews? He hated Jews, loathed them. What he gained was personal satisfaction.

What he gained was personal satisfaction.

That and the unification of the people of Germany into his "New Order" cult of slavery and death.

By the end of the war, they were killing even blue-eyed blondes who were deemed to be Untermenschen for infractions, real or purported, against one or another of the princelings who drew power from association with Der Fuehrer.