"The Treasury Department will pump $15 billion more into Fannie Mae"

Big deal this is all found money Nancy plans to spend 1.2 trillion on healthcare but our taxes will not go up one dime first she plans to borrow all the money from China while the Dollar still has some value left and then pay them back with worthless dollars. Aha ha ha lol stupid chinks...

"The Treasury Department will pump $15 billion more into Fannie Mae"

In a related story the treasury department plans to add more shifts to keep up with all the money printing, and some of the workers have the nerve to want to be paid in euro's...

BARNEY FRANK has declared Fannie mae will make a profit of 100 Billion dollars next year to make up for this minor short fall. The rest of what Barney had to say was unintelligible as the microphone became covered in spit...

It's free money though. Bawney and Barack said so.

The congressional learning curve has flatlined....

It ain't over till its over. Yogi Bear.

Gee, I wonder why they announce this gad news on a Sunday night??

...just a pre-view of the next bubble/taxation in housing-healthcare-energy. For the rest of us: pay-baby-pay and get used to it! Speak Chinese yet?

It is always much more fun to be part of the team that creates a problem than it is to be part of the team that has to clean up the mess. Most of the same whiners who worry now about printing money said not one word when Bush was President, while Republicans passed tax cuts during wars for the first time in history of the country. I think perhaps in fairness to the country we should assess a special tax on red states since they voted for the team who destroyed the economy they should get to pay more for the recovery. Unfoprtunately we won't be able to do that since most of those folks are too poor to pay any tax at all but still like to whine as if they do.

It is always much more fun to be part of the team that creates a problem than it is to be part of the team that has to clean up the mess. Most of the same whiners who worry now about printing money said not one word when Bush was President, while Republicans passed tax cuts during wars for the first time in history of the country. I think perhaps in fairness to the country we should assess a special tax on red states since they voted for the team who destroyed the economy they should get to pay more for the recovery. Unfoprtunately we won't be able to do that since most of those folks are too poor to pay any tax at all but still like to whine as if they do.

I think in fairness, you should actually address what the thread is about for once in your life instead of knocking down your typical strawman to avoid the reality that the Obama administration is doing everything they can to reward the behavior of banks that put us in this mess at the expense of the next 3 generations.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-09 10:44 AM | Flag: Retarded Deflection

This is just great. I don't here anyone on the left saying these people need to work for a dollar a year. How about Congress. They had a little something to do with this. How about they have to work for a dollar a year.

"I think in fairness, you should actually address what the thread is about for once in your life instead of knocking down your typical strawman to avoid the reality that the Obama administration is doing everything they can to reward the behavior of banks that put us in this mess at the expense of the next 3 generations."

I think, IN FAIRNESS, we should perhaps consider WHY THE HELL FANNIE MAE NEEDS BAILING OUT.

When I go to my doctor when I'm sick, amazingly, I don't blame him for my illness. But hey, that's just me.

Buy a $100k house with 2.5% down. $2,500. Get a tax cut of $8,000. You can buy a nice house and make $5,500 on the deal without selling it. Is that insane, or what? What the fuck is wrong with our ass-holes in congress?

"How about Congress. They had a little something to do with this. How about they have to work for a dollar a year."

Yeah, only millionaires should be able to serve in Congress. If you aren't rich enough to survive on $1 a year then you can't help govern. Government by the rich, for the rich. Great idea!

I think, IN FAIRNESS, we should perhaps consider WHY THE HELL FANNIE MAE NEEDS BAILING OUT.

When I go to my doctor when I'm sick, amazingly, I don't blame him for my illness. But hey, that's just me.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-09 11:14 AM

The least you can do is explain why you think Fannie Mae needs this extra $15 billion, why it's good for the country, why it couldn't be better spent elsewhere, so on and so forth.

Then your deflection might have some merit.

I think, IN FAIRNESS, we should perhaps consider WHY THE HELL FANNIE MAE NEEDS BAILING OUT.

Here you go...read all about it, right here:

"The least you can do is explain why you think Fannie Mae needs this extra $15 billion, why it's good for the country, why it couldn't be better spent elsewhere, so on and so forth."

Fannie Mae makes home ownership possible for millions, building homes creates jobs for millions.
Before I give any more reasons for investing another 15 Billion in Fannie Mae perhaps you could defend the hundreds of billions wasted in Iraq, or the billions wasted on the Medicare Drug Bill.
How many billions were spent unnecessarily on the military??? Hey, let's build some more F-22s

Fannie Mae gets another $15 billion. Great news. More people able to get a loan to buy my house.

Yippee.

Fannie Mae makes home ownership possible for millions, building homes creates jobs for millions.

Who are completely unfit for homeownership!

You have learned absolutely nothing from the entire housing bubble collapse.

A Dave Ramsey course should be a requirement for applying for a loan using taxpayers income.

think, IN FAIRNESS, we should perhaps consider WHY THE HELL FANNIE MAE NEEDS BAILING OUT.

That is a great Idea, every person in congress that called someone a racist for saying that it was a bad idea to force institutions to give a loan to everyone in the name of "afforadable housing". lets look up all of them and blame them.

Fannie Mae makes home ownership possible for millions, building homes creates jobs for millions.
Before I give any more reasons for investing another 15 Billion in Fannie Mae perhaps you could defend the hundreds of billions wasted in Iraq, or the billions wasted on the Medicare Drug Bill.
How many billions were spent unnecessarily on the military??? Hey, let's build some more F-22s

#18 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-09 11:24 AM

Alright, moving on to the thread topic, is this $15 billion really going to cause Fannie Mae to increase their lending, enabling millions to buy new homes, and in turn create jobs for "millions" in new home building? I'd be interested in seeing the math behind that.

Iraqi makes a good point. Are we just trying to fuel another bubble so that Obama can look good come '12? Wasn't that what Bush / Greenspan did in '04?

"You have learned absolutely nothing from the entire housing bubble collapse."

Excuse me but I was the one who was warning you about the housing bubble a couple years before it burst. Fannie Mae got hurt because of that bubble so I guess your answer then is to just never try to revive the housing industry, accept that no one will be able to purchase homes and just plain give up on the nation. Great plan.
There is no plan to create another housing bubble and prices are not rising so one isn't forming.

"That is a great Idea, every person in congress that called someone a racist for saying that it was a bad idea to force institutions to give a loan to everyone in the name of "afforadable housing". lets look up all of them and blame them."

STill beating the dead horse that Barnie Frank somehow created the housing crisis....even though that talking point was debunked by many different people long ago.

#25 | Posted by danni
Not just Barney but a lot more. Everyone pushing for affordable houseing, subsidised by the govt. Dems, repubs, and many more. If Fannie and Freddie were not buying up every loan in site, the lenders could not have made the loans and dumped them off. Bad policy = Bad results. Once again, Govt, trying to fix a problem it created. Not by fixing the udnerlying cause, but by throwing money at it.

STill beating the dead horse that Barnie Frank somehow created the housing crisis....

exactly. you should follow danni's lead and beat an older and deader horse like Ronald Reagan.

"Everyone pushing for affordable houseing, subsidised by the govt. Dems, repubs, and many more."

That was a small part of the housing crisis and it never would have been a problem if the bubble hadn't been inflated by the use of variable interest rate mortgages. Those mortgages were what killed the economy not Fannie and Freddie. Millions of responisble buyers only got hurt because of the tremendous decrease in value of the homes they had bought.

"STill beating the dead horse that Barnie Frank somehow created the housing crisis....even though that talking point was debunked by many different people long ago."
#25 | Posted by danni

Danni, you forgot to complete your sentence:

".even though that talking point was debunked by many different people long ago including myself."

That was a small part of the housing crisis and it never would have been a problem if the bubble hadn't been inflated by the use of variable interest rate mortgages. Those mortgages were what killed the economy not Fannie and Freddie.

lack

of

underwriting.

nevermind

Government by the rich, for the rich. Great idea!

#15 | Posted by danni

Seems to be working for the dems. They are rich and they help wall street gamblers.

dan, here is how the housing bubble came into being. It was people buying houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have. When they realized that the monthly payment was killing them they walked away because they didn't have any of their money in the deal. They bought a house for $250k and it was only worth $100K. They had paid nothing on the principle when they threw it in.

"It was people buying houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have."

It was bankers, who should have known better, offering them mortgages based on the assumption that housing values would continue to rise which was also the basis for the entire Bush economy.
It is understandable that individuals might have believed the real estate professionals, bankers, mortgage brokers, etc. that there was no danger of the bubble bursting, it is not understandable that supposedly professional money managers at banks and mortgage companies believed it.
I argued with several of the real estate people back when I was getting ready to buy my condo, virtually all of them were completely convinced that housing values were a solid investment.

Buy a $100k house with 2.5% down. $2,500. Get a tax cut of $8,000. You can buy a nice house and make $5,500 on the deal without selling it. Is that insane, or what? What the fuck is wrong with our ass-holes in congress?

#14 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-11-09 11:15 AM | Reply |

The smart thing to do would be continue to disagree with the notion of stimulus.

But that went way over your head huh?

Fannie Mae got hurt because of that bubble so I guess your answer then is to just never try to revive the housing industry, accept that no one will be able to purchase homes and just plain give up on the nation. Great plan.

So since health care is taken care of, now everyone deserves a house? Guess what? If your FICO sucks, you don't deserve a house. If you don't have 10-20 percent to put down, you don't deserve a house.

I DO have an answer to revive the housing industry...stop propping up the old way of doing things with 8k in free money to encourage people to buy homes they can't afford. Instead, let the market collapse, let the dust settle at where the prices SHOULD be, and guess what? People will start buying homes, inventory will come down. This will turn that 5 percent saved in the old model to 15 percent in the new model, and these people can legitimately buy these homes.

I know you hate my plan, because it doesn't involve the government sinking their fangs in for every last drop of blood...but it will work. Of course, everyone will lose a ton of money in fake equity that they never had in the first place, but it is certainly better than the alternative.

There is no plan to create another housing bubble and prices are not rising so one isn't forming.

You know why? Because there is amount of meddling that the government can do which will encourage people to go against their own best interests. Prices will fall no matter how much money DC tries to throw at the problem. The market will fix itself, in spite of what the government does, not because of it.

Besides, everyone knows the new bubble is health care...

Not just Barney but a lot more. Everyone pushing for affordable houseing, subsidised by the govt. Dems, repubs, and many more. If Fannie and Freddie were not buying up every loan in site, the lenders could not have made the loans and dumped them off. Bad policy = Bad results. Once again, Govt, trying to fix a problem it created. Not by fixing the udnerlying cause, but by throwing money at it.

#26 | Posted by freechoice at 2009-11-09 12:10 PM | Reply |

Has it not occured to you that you'd probably be against the "fix"? I mean think to yourself what that would look like, and whether or not you'd agree.

"everyone knows the new bubble is health care..."

Are you suggesting costs are currently overblown, and are headed downward?

Seriously?!?

I know you hate my plan, because it doesn't involve the government sinking their fangs in for every last drop of blood...but it will work. Of course, everyone will lose a ton of money in fake equity that they never had in the first place, but it is certainly better than the alternative.

Fact is, you have no idea that is true. And theres some evidence your flat out wrong.

It was bankers, who should have known better, offering them mortgages based on the assumption that housing values would continue to rise which was also the basis for the entire Bush economy.

They did know better. They knew that all they had to do, no matter how bad things got, was to cry wolf and the government would come running to their rescue...which is exactly what happened.

I argued with several of the real estate people back when I was getting ready to buy my condo, virtually all of them were completely convinced that housing values were a solid investment.

They had stars in their eyes, and wallets full of cash...why would they tell you anything different?

The smart thing to do would be continue to disagree with the notion of stimulus.

But that went way over your head huh?

#34 | Posted by KnightHawk

You tell me how more houses going into forclosure is stimulating the economy. Can you do some thinking for yourself for a change?

Fact is, you have no idea that is true. And theres some evidence your flat out wrong.

Lemme guess...from "most economists" who have been wrong every step of the way so far, who are beholden to the will of the Federal Reserve?

Though I love new evidence to interpret. Let's see it.

When those 8k checks stop coming, housing would collapse. That is why they are not only extending the 8k offer, they are expanding it to existing homeowners. That's why they wanted to use that money as a front toward closing costs. Every trick in the book at the taxpayer's expense is being used to maintain the status quo.

Are you suggesting costs are currently overblown, and are headed downward?

Seriously?!?

No, that is not what I'm suggesting at all.

"that is not what I'm suggesting at all."

Okay....

So what do you mean by "...the new bubble is health care..."

So what do you mean by "...the new bubble is health care..."

Not quite the right phrasing...I should have said as we creep closer to the passage of the health care bill, we can see that the new bubble will be health care.

"the new bubble will be health care."

I'm still not clear; define bubble.

banker cocksuckers = too big to fail

lose your house? = FUCK YOU!

"Besides, everyone knows the new bubble is health care..."

Very nice but completely meaningless talking point.

In truth there is another bubble right now and I hate to be the one to break the news to you....it's another stock market bubble.

In truth there is another bubble right now and I hate to be the one to break the news to you....it's another stock market bubble.

#48 | Posted by danni

Are you saying the little o recovery is a sham? We are in for another couple years of shit?

I thought all thoes economists that give BJs to the feds said we are comming out of the depression. You mean I can't believe them?

dan, sometimes I think there is hope for you and this is one of thoes moments.

"Are you saying the little o recovery is a sham?"

No, that's not what I would say. I'd say they are doing what they can to stimulate the economy but they are contending with capital gains taxes which encourage gambling in the stock market.

No, that's not what I would say. I'd say they are doing what they can to stimulate the economy but they are contending with capital gains taxes which encourage gambling in the stock market.

#50 | Posted by danni

What?

I knew you would blow it when I gave you an 'atta girl'.

Stock prices are up now because; Productivity is up after many of the companies got rid of their 'dead wood' but.... there still isn't money in Joe Sixpac's hands to buy the goods produced because he still doesn't have a job.

"Stock prices are up now because; Productivity is up"

Um...no.

Try again.

Oh well. Obamadollars are cheap and getting cheaper every day

Stock prices are up because stock market prices are up.

productivity in 3rd quarter up 9.5%

From this thread I glean that the biggest justification for this extra $15 bil is Iraq and the Medicare drug bill.

Fannie Mae makes home ownership possible for millions, building homes creates jobs for millions.
* * * *

When property values are going up, that's true. But when they go down, the people most apt to default on a mortgage are the very ones Fannie is on the hook for. And for these people, it'll be years before they're able to buy another home, courtesy of the damage to their credit report.

If you can't afford a down payment sizable enough to cushion you as a buyer in the event of even a 5% housing correction, is the government really doing you a favor by ponying up the difference? Do you really believe that?

I think, IN FAIRNESS, we should perhaps consider WHY THE HELL FANNIE MAE NEEDS BAILING OUT.

When I go to my doctor when I'm sick, amazingly, I don't blame him for my illness. But hey, that's just me.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2009-11-09 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hey Danni, you ever watch this video?

No, that's not what I would say. I'd say they are doing what they can to stimulate the economy but they are contending with capital gains taxes which encourage gambling in the stock market.

#50 | Posted by danni
* * * *

Wow. Maybe you should look up what your capital gains taxes are if you are speculating in the stock market, and your holding period is 364 days or less.

Come to think of it, don't bother.

danni you prove you know next to nothing on a daily basis.

Please read matt Tiabbi's article on fannie and freddie. He's a very left wing righter for rolling stone. MAYBE you'll gain a grain of intelligence!

Davethewave: Wow. Interesting article. I like how it connects the dots between the bubbles with GS being the common thread.

Cant wait for that Capntrade to kick in!!!

#50----"contending with capital gains taxes which encourage gambling in the stock market." -------Danni, best give it up tonight; your getting your head handed to you. By the way, capital gains taxes have minimal if any effect on why this market is up--- some real reasons would be that: 1. it's pointing to a better recovery then anybody is imagining. 2. many of the companies have had earnings better then expected due to cost cutting and productivity gains 3. capital seeking greater returns and therefore greater risks because of easy money policies and the "dollar carry trade." 4. money managers that missed the rally putting money to work so as to not appear that they missed the rally. Hope this helps. By the way it's not Reagan's fault.

See Danni would not read it, nor would she comment. Some people are obsessed with hatred and hate for facts to get in the way of their lunacy.

"See Danni would not read it, nor would she comment. Some people are obsessed with hatred and hate for facts to get in the way of their lunacy."

First of all I think you're wrong. Danni has never ignored anything, she fights for her beliefs.

However, your comment rings true for 90% of the people on this site. Take a good look around. Hatred for those who's beliefs differ is in full force here.

People post links that grossly misrepresent a situation, headlines are extremely misleading or just flat out wrong, the level of conversation has slipped from bad to the lowest depths of contempt.

The hatred displayed here for your fellow Americans has gotten so bad, half the time I won't engage in serious discussions anymore because the lack of respect, the lies that are told, the conversations that have degenerated into nothing more than the most horrible name calling....have completely turned me off.

Whatever happened to civil debate? Respect for others? Decency?

So don't just state that it's Danni (which is your opinion) because it goes well beyond her even if you were correct!

"Please read matt Tiabbi's article on fannie and freddie."

I read that article a while back but the subject is Goldman Sachs. Fannie and Freddie are mentioned but are not, by any means, the subject of the article. Did you actually read it??? Do you actually have a clue???

"He's a very left wing righter for rolling stone. MAYBE you'll gain a grain of intelligence!"

When someone is trying to insult my intelligence they need to try and write intelligently.

In a similar vein, it's fair to ask whether or not government-guaranteed student loans really do anyone a favor. Is it really helpful to graduate kids with $80,000 in student loan debt?

The student loan debt is a function of the rising cost of obtaining a college/university education. At public institutions that is, at least in part, attributable to legislatures that have opted out of the promise of public education in favor of smaller state contributions to the kitty.

While I'm not keen on the $80,000 figure, I'm unwilling to see a young person prevented from seeking an education just so the fry cook jobs can be filled at Burger King.

Ah. The fallacy of the false choice. "If you don't go to college, you'll be a fry cook." As if shoveling $30,000 a year to learn English Lit is a good investment in your future instead.

"Stock prices are up now because; Productivity is up"

Um...no.

Try again.

#52 | Posted by Danforth

Why don't you tell me the secret.

Productivity is up so proffits are up. Why do you buy a stock? Because the company is loosing its ass?

Maybe you like dan's answer, "Stock prices are up because stock market prices are up." She is a deep thinker like you.

As if shoveling $30,000 a year to learn English Lit is a good investment in your future instead.

#69 | Posted by rightisright

Then you can be a fry cook that can read and still make minimum wage. Oh please send me some of them obama dollars. He is going to give me free health care and buy the gas for my car too.

"She is a deep thinker like you."

You just didn't get it Sniper. You rarely do.

Sniper,

My guess is that the stock market is up because lending rate is at sub-0%, the high unemployment rate announced last week, will only extends this rate. This also compounds the dollars slide, which again has the effect of asset inflation. From what I am reading, watch for a correction in asset inflation when the Fed changes lending rates to curb CPI inflation.

You just didn't get it Sniper. You rarely do.

Posted by danni

right sniper, you should take lessons on the stock market and how it works from danni.

...someone who probably doesn't own a pot nor a window.

Fannie Mae makes home ownership possible for millions, building homes creates jobs for millions...

Yet an article today says Government Relief Program are reaching only 1-5 homeowners. 50 billion allocated and as with any Gov program that iusn't working, throw more money into it. What is laughable, is these programs are only temporary and after five months, then what happens? Fannie can't help them because their guidelines don't allow for the two to three month mortgage lates, or if they have a forclosure filed against them. Smoke and mirrors and more billions thrown away by this incompetent Congress and WH.

WASHINGTON After a slow start, the Obama administration's mortgage relief program has reached one in five eligible homeowners, a government report says.

More than 650,000 borrowers, or 20 percent of those eligible, have signed up for trials lasting up to five months, the Treasury Department said Tuesday. The modifications reduce monthly payments to more affordable levels.

"...someone who probably doesn't own a pot nor a window."

Got lots of pots and quite a few windows too. So, since you are so much smarter than me Eberly, tell us what the rise in stock values is really based on. This ought to be good.....I'll be waiting for your brilliant thoughts on the subject....

tell us what the rise in stock values is really based on.

the rise yesterday or over the course of the last 80 years?

you see, it isn't a simple concept. I wasn't the one inserting my own bullshit ideology into what I believe the stock market is really doing. It doesn't work that way.

"The hatred displayed here for your fellow Americans has gotten so bad, half the time I won't engage in serious discussions anymore because the lack of respect, the lies that are told, the conversations that have degenerated into nothing more than the most horrible name calling....have completely turned me off." - Lisa

Couldn't agree more, I come here to read a few posters, but I have noticed even they are getting mean spirited. The level of informative conversation is low, noise is high.

"you see, it isn't a simple concept. I wasn't the one inserting my own bullshit ideology"

Where did I inject ideology in regards to stock market increases, basicly I was saying that the stock market prices have gone up for no real rational reason other than just the collective belief, for the moment, that prices will keep rising. It could just as easily start falling tomorrow and that would be based on exactly the same thing, which is really pretty much nothing.

That would hardly qualify as my trying to inject my ideology because it actually doesn't. The truth is, I think the stock market is just a bubble which will pop again, I think most investors think the same thing, they all hope they will anticipate it and get out at the right time.

" basicly I was saying that the stock market prices have gone up for no real rational reason other than just the collective belief, for the moment, that prices will keep rising. It could just as easily start falling tomorrow and that would be based on exactly the same thing, which is really pretty much nothing." - Danni

"Is this a current context thinking, or your long term view that stock markets are bubbles?"

Current view, long term it could be different if the economy actually improved and business started really making lots of money.

tell us what the rise in stock values is really based on.

#76 | Posted by danni

I did dan. My answer had more words than your's did.

Companies got rid of a lot of dead wood, productivity went up so profits went up. Profits rising is what causes the price of a stock to go up. It ain't real complicated.

OOps that was the wrong article. matt did a great job of ripping fannie and freddie last year. I can't find the article, but I'll keep looking... They were gov run companies stuffed with connected people who got gov handout jobs...similar to diamond parachutes.

though he did not directly attack barney ( I DO)he described how BOTH parties fucked them over royally.

If you remember barney said they needed to raise capital, which they did under his encouragement. so as AA rated quasi gov run agencies, they raised 20 billion dollars from investors...who lost EVERYTHING when they were declared bankrupt. In my book that was fraud and Malfeasance. If they were subject to the securities laws regular companies are subject to...they'd be in jail now....

PS Made enron look like 2-bit thieves....