UGH

Why do people put up a thread that expects you to join just so you can read the article?

Are you Sarah Palin or something? Who doesn't have a login for the New York Freaking Times?

I'm surprised we don't have a generic one, drudge/retort or something like that. Somebody that isn't me should address this vital issue.

UGH

Why do people put up a thread that expects you to join just so you can read the article?

#1 | Posted by Lisa

striking a "deal" with the news organizations most often linked would to seem to serve the "readers"

Lisa, come on, you can join the NYT so you can read their articles. It's free and easy to do.

#5 - Truly. It takes about 30 seconds and you get no junk mail. There are certain media I just can't live without, including the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post and a few others.

Besides, Lisa, you're signed up for the DR.

South Africans should fear for life after Mandela, hell, they should fear for their lives right now. RSA is quickly descending into Zimbabwe like levels of civil society. Crime is complete out of control and government corruption and the 'black empowerment' movement has discourage the best and brightest from owning assets for the good of all people. Like all populist movements, corruption came immediately after they took control. The 'black empowerment' movement, for those that don't know, basically requires former white owned business and all new businesses to have a portion of their ownership be black South Africans. As this investor group did not have much/any money following the change in government, the white owned businesses were forced to give this ownership interest for nothing. This has been going on for years now and the people receiving ownership are connected to the ANC and are wealthy and corrupt. If you want to see what the country will look like in 10 years, look at Zimbabwe today. When they had white rule, the economy was growing and they had the best health care in Africa. Now, anyone with an IQ over 80 is leaving and the country has unprecedented inflation.

also the question: Who will bind us?"

Should read, 'who will blind us?'

"Who doesn't have a login for the New York Freaking Times?"

Most people don't have a login to the NYT's site.

Requiring that people supply you personal information so they can read articles is antiquated.

If you want to see what the country will look like in 10 years, look at Zimbabwe today. When they had white rule, the economy was growing and they had the best health care in Africa. Now, anyone with an IQ over 80 is leaving and the country has unprecedented inflation.

You admit it's possible for black people to have an IQ over 80?

Bad little Nazi! Bad!

Of course black people have IQ's over 80. However, as a whole, the scientific evidence supports that average IQ in black Africa is about 10-15 points lower than the average IQ of a citizen in the US. I know, I know, IQ is a racist measure of intelligence...like math, science, etc.

IQ is a racist measure of intelligence...like math, science, etc.

It's not racist, but it is an incomplete test and subject to extraneous influences.

How can a scientist ever hope to quantify something that is exceedingly difficult to even define?

#7 - GooLilNaz, you have been paying attention to Africa for a long time? Africa seems to occupy about the same degree of importance in the general awareness as Antarctica does. America has very little to do with Africa and there is nothing, absolutely nothing that could happen over there to make Americans interested in it, imho. America is entering another period of isolationism. Our only growth oriented point of contact with the outside world is going to be in matters regarding technology. We are in a decline culturally and therefore have only negatives to export in that sphere. We certainly cannot provide an example of togetherness.

GooLilNaz, you have been paying attention to Africa for a long time?

Yes, I work with the continent all the time.

Africa seems to occupy about the same degree of importance in the general awareness as Antarctica does. America has very little to do with Africa

This I have to disagree with. The US has had 2 if not more disasterous policies with the region that very much contributed to the current state of affairs.

1.) Food subsidies and IMF involvement. The first thing the IMF does is discourage any kind of farming activities as a prerequisite for loans. So, farming support collapses when the government pulls support. Then, the US dumps in 'free' food which ensures that no local farming can develop and given these countries are devoid of service industries or a manufacturing base, ensures that there will be massive unemployment an poverty. The policies directly create a dis-incentive to work just like the liberal policies that the US has instituted within our own country. Once a country become dependent on handouts, government corruption becomes the only business and the country enters a death spiral.

2.) The US forced white rule to end, much like when we kicked out Saddam and let the people burn, pillage and generally run wild in Iraq. The people were not ready to govern themselves and they still are not ready. Everytime the US forces regime change, it ends in period of transition much worse than if the country would have entered under their own free will. I submit the USSR, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, South Africa, Zimbabwe and any other country in South America that we forced regime change on as prime examples.

We are in a decline culturally and therefore have only negatives to export in that sphere. We certainly cannot provide an example of togetherness.

We are actually entering the exact opposite. The pendulum of open border liberalism has swung too far and you are going to backlash and rise of nationalist parties. Look at Hungary, the UK, Czech Republic, Austria, etc for examples of the nationalist parties gaining strength. Frankly, the world has tried the liberal experiment since WWII and the system is a failure.

the world has tried the liberal experiment since WWII and the system is a failure.

Are you saying your points 1 and 2, the IMF and imperialism, are the "liberal experiment?" Installing the Shah for example was the work of liberals?

Are you saying your points 1 and 2, the IMF and imperialism, are the "liberal experiment?"

Yes. Agricultural subsidies and 'African Relief' dumping other products into the countries is the work of Liberals. They think they are doing good by giving food, clothing, etc to poor of the world - I honestly believe they do not know the damage that it causes. I would put sex tourism in Southeast Asia in the same boat as we generous Americans try to help them develop a tourism industry without seeing the harm sex tourism does to family life in places like Thailand. The Shah was not liberalism, but more my criticism of the US trying to force regime change. The liberals of this world (read communists) caused unsurpassed death and destruction and has proven to be a total failure.

Congrats, Nazi, for piecing together possibly the most unbelievably fucking stupid post of the day.

Congrats, Nazi, for piecing together possibly the most unbelievably fucking stupid post of the day.

Wow, I guess I am 100% wrong. Dumping products into poor countries destroying their ability to develop domestic economies is a great idea! Oh, and communists brought nothing but joy and happiness to the world. The 60M dead Chinese under Mao are not his fault and were not due to his policies. The 10M+ dead Ukrainians from the Homodor forced starvation at the hands of the communists was not the fault of uncle Joe Stalin. FDR (unabashed liberal) did the right thing letting Stalin keep Eastern Europe for 40 years. Yep, I am certainly wrong. Liberal policies have been a blessing upon mankind.

Naz, what is the matter with you? You equate liberalism with communism. Don't you have a dictionary? Then when ZH calls you stupid you pretend to consider what he said, but continue in the most warped wrongheadedness I've ever seen. It is like all different concepts go into the vortex of your mind and are pulped all together in the Mixmaster of your fixed ideas, coming out in a brown homogenous pulp. Really. And you are supposedly being ironic by calling yourself a Nazi, but at the same time you belie the possible irony by projecting some kind of white exaltationism. You seem to have a lot of information at your disposal. Why don't you study what liberalism actually is and see if you can synthesize your thinking into something that is not anti-human.

Dumping products into poor countries destroying their ability to develop domestic economies is a great idea!

Some think it's a great idea, but those people are not liberals. The IMF and the World Bank are not liberal institutions, they are tools of Western corporate governance.

You sound like somebody who read liberal books like 1984 and The Trial and concluded liberals favor a police state. You missed the point.

I might agree that when it comes to OxFam you have a point, but then I would have to pretend that Africa had no problems until say 1945, when in fact Africa's problems are the culmination of Western imperialism and colonialism going back centuries.

Liberalism in Africa today is the Gates Foundation trying to mitigate AIDS and malaria. I can see why you think we should just let them all rot and die, but that won't work, economically speaking.

You equate liberalism with communism.

Communism is the extreme form of Liberalism, don't try to fool yourself. Enforcing open borders and pretending that everyone is equal are tenants of both systems and that is pure foolishness. Let me tell you a story about my Polish friend growing up under communism. You see, his mother was a doctor and his father was a university professor (both trained prior to WW2). In order to make sure everyone was equal, they made it nearly impossible for him to attend university, he had to be in the top 1% of his class because his parents were educated and they can't allow a single family to have that much education or everyone wouldn't be equal. However, if you were a poor, rural peasant you were basically assured a spot.

What was the result of that system? Financial ruin and economic collapse. These are the same exact Liberal policies at work in the US - affirmative action ring a bell? Zimbabwe and RSA stealing land and businesses from white people ring a bell? All these Liberal policies lead to is miserable failure. You need to accept a basic premise - not everyone is created equal and when you focus your efforts to ensure 'equality of outcome' vs. 'equality of opportunity' the only end result you achieve is failure.

Now as to the Gates Foundation, yes, that is a good case. However, I would consider that charity - not liberalism. Liberalism is not the only system which attempts to help the downtrodden. Fascism, Monarchy, Conservative governments, etc all attempt to help people - I think the posters above truly do not understand what liberalism really is. At its core, Liberalism is trying to make everyone equal - that is communism, not charity, etc.

Some think it's a great idea, but those people are not liberals. The IMF and the World Bank are not liberal institutions, they are tools of Western corporate governance.

NO SHIT.

I'm sure you have read 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' by John Perkins. If not, do so.

But ultimately, can it be used as a force for good?????

At its core, Liberalism is trying to make everyone equal

No it isn't. Maybe you're thinking of Globalization or something, but certainly not liberalism.

Just what qualified Mandela to become president of South Africa....just because he was in prison for so many years? Is it like a consolation prize?