:: Caution ::
:: Epic Fail Ahead ::
:: Seek Alternate Route ::

And 40 principled and independently minded deems that value their jobs will do that by standing with the republicans to vote against this 2000 page monstrosity that no one has seen, no one has read, but all of the obamateabaggers will bleat about how it will save us all.

Ever wonder why they don't want honest debate on the issue? Ever wonder why Congress continues to exempt itself from the health care that they want to impose upon us?

It will never pass the Senate and those Dems who vote for it will be putting their jobs on the line for nothing.

This bill will pass. There's no way it would've hit the floor if Pelosi didn't have the votes.

There's no way it would've hit the floor if Pelosi didn't have the votes.

I agree, just have to wonder what it cost her in all that bribe, extortion, vote buying.

There is no debate, just a parade of Republican assholes bringing up their grandchildren, great-grandchildren and some even pretend to cry because "veterans deserve the right to choose!" It's pathetic, on both C-SPAN1 and C-SPAN2, but it isn't "debate".

They continually prove how much Republicans need to be removed from office ASAP.

With a big loud THUD.

What else did you expect from 2000 pages of pure BS from the libs.

Why do Liberals hate America?

This bill will pass. There's no way it would've hit the floor if Pelosi didn't have the votes.

You're most likely correct on that one

Getting a bill through the Senate is a totally different matter though...
.

"Why do Liberals hate America?"

Cause liberals believe in freedom and justice for all, and not just the teabaggers?

Even if all this bill did was make it impossible for Americans to become uninsurable, it would save millions of lives and be as popular over time as Social Security and Medicare. It seems like incredibly bad politics, to me, for Republicans to stand in opposition to that.

Why do teabaggers lie all the time?

Don't they have a shithouse to tap their toes in?

Getting a bill through the Senate is a totally different matter though...

True, but Reid's not stupid either. He's got the votes too, or else we don't get here.

Hate to point this out...It wasn't the Republicans behind closed doors with Obama's balls in their mouth all morning long. The real teabaggers were in there on their knees with something jammed down their throat.

Don't they have a shithouse to tap their toes in?

#11 | Posted by Mista Kurtz

What a bigoted, homophobic thing of you to say.

Teabaggers?...

ohhh wait you are making an incredibly hack gay joke...i get it.
I guess homophobic jokes fly when you are a lefty?

Even if all this bill did was make it impossible for Americans to become uninsurable, it would save millions of lives and be as popular over time as Social Security and Medicare. It seems like incredibly bad politics, to me, for Republicans to stand in opposition to that.

With a nation careening towards bankruptcy, it's going to be interesting to see how that turns out. They're all Ponzi Schemes.
If JPW and Zombiehunter were smart, they would be preparing for another line of work. There is no doubt the feds will have to resort to rationing and price controls.

"WAHH WAHH WE ARE GETTING OWNED IDEOLOGICALLY SO LET'S TRY AND TURN THEIR OWN SENSIBILITIES BACK AROUND ON THEM AFTER EVERY HARMLESS GAY REMARK THEY MAKE WAHH WAHH"

Bitches.

Kreator,

That is called pointing out hypocrisy. Don't worry, lots of your side of the aisle fall into this category.

As to the issue of harmless, based on the shit your people spew forth, I didn't think there was any such thing as a "harmless" bigoted remark. Don't forget, them gay folks just got federally protected status.

what did nancy have to promise illegals to get the Hispanic caucus vote? does obama know or care what the hell is in this 2000 page time bomb?

"what did nancy have to promise illegals to get the Hispanic caucus vote? does obama know or care what the hell is in this 2000 page time bomb?" - SEM

A job working on her estate?

^.^

"There's no way it would've hit the floor if Pelosi didn't have the votes."

Great! Then Pelosi can be ran out of office like anyone else who votes for this monstrosity. Good way for the Democrats to have ZERO members in the House by 2012.

JEB

force every poor American, legal and illegal hispanic to pay a fine and fill our jails for not having shitty coverage. Great Idea!

What else did you expect from 2000 pages of pure BS from the libs.

Why do Liberals hate America?

#7 | Posted by The_Chapel at 2009-11-07 04:02 PM

Niceville, stop being such a godamned pussy and quit with the new moniker.
We all know it's you, nobody could duplicate your brand of delusional thinking.

Apparently a permanent ban means only like a year or so and then you can sneak back in.

Grow a fucking sack.

This will bite the Dems in the ass... There are cheaper ways to do what they want to do.

This will not provide insurance for everyone.

It will raise taxes and in the end deficits.

It will be interesting to see if Joe Wilson was right and illegals will recieve benefits. Time will tell.

Does this mean that if illegals ARE covered that Obama bin lying will apologise to the Joe Wilson from South Carolina...preferably publicly - maybe at a nationally televised press conference from the Oval Office?

",Sir. I am...uh....sorry....that I ...uh...doubted....that you.....uhm....uh...were...uhm
.;..telling the truth. Uhm...You were....uh....right....I am....a liar. But, however....in my....uhm...uh...defense.....t
he nation...uhm...uh...knew ....what I....uh...was....uhm...when you......uhm...elected me. ungh ungh ungh!

I wonder how all the rightwing idiots who have posted on this thread will be talking come next week once the bill passes the House, and Pelosi is basking in her victory? Any chance they might be gracious for a change? Nahhh.

Also, A-Citizen in post #2 captures the stupidity and hypocrisy of rightwingers in a nutshell. He claims that by voting to save their jobs, those Dems who vote against their bill are doing it out of conscience. Hey idiot, if they are voting to save their jobs, then by definition they are not voting out of conscience.

Why do conservatives hate their fellow Americans?? Why do they want to keep the status quo instead of making sure all Americans are insured. Why are conservatives so fucking greedy???????????????????????!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

With a nation careening towards bankruptcy, it's going to be interesting to see how that turns out. They're all Ponzi Schemes.

If we can afford an elective war in the Middle East for six years (and counting), maybe we can afford to bring universal health care to our own citizens -- something that may be cheaper in the long run than the existing mess.

Lord knows, if President Bush had decided that we needed to start a third war and borrow $1 trillion to finance it, the Republicans and a lot of Democrats would have been right on board.

Moder8,

If Pelogosi wins, how I feel is not going to matter. The dems that are voting against this are voting that way because their constituents (read THE PEOPLE) will throw their ass out of office if they vote with the dems. But I guess you would prefer they vote party over country right?

Larry,

We want to make sure that the dems don't wreck the health care system. Consider what a great job the government has done with the stimulus plan. Consider what a great job the government has done distributing the H1N1 vaccine. Yeah, I want to depend on those dumb asses for my medical care.

The other problem is, if we have a "separate but equal" system like England..where those that have private pay insurance get top quality care and those that don't get what the government pays for, it won't be long and you will be bitching again because someone has something you don't have. I suggest you read the story about the dog that looks into the water and sees another dog with a bone. If you can't see the connection, read it again...slower.

#27...'HATE' is such a juvenile word and a way of hiding behind insecurities.. I am neither conservative nor liberal, but very much in the middle... disagreement, to intelligent people is not the same as hate..the word most diversionists love to hide behind.. it is not about the objective, but this path is wrong, wrong, wrong.. it has too many negative elements and some just outrageously punitive because of an ill hidden attempt to destroy an industry (ever thought about the immediate rise in unemployment and financial corruption if congress wins and destroys the insurance industry???) and to be in control of American choices.. there are many other and more economically ways to correct this system...not the vigilante method..!!! and, it does not take your HATE accusations, just some minimal brain power, which obviously a lot of you lack... don't you just HATE it..????

#28 | Posted by Ray

Aflac!

I reserve the balance of my time to weep tears of joy if this bill passes.

a math ? if i have 28 workers and it's mandated that i provide health coverage if i have over 25 workers what do you think is going to happen to worker 26,27 and 28 ?

if i have 25 workers will it be cost effective to hire #26 ?

Dr. Soul,

You have to forgive Larry. He has a personal stake in this one. He is one of the people standing in line demanding that his fellow citizens pay for his health care. He is not one bit ashamed to stick his hand into your pocket or mine to take our money to do it either.

I wish he had to look each person in the eye that gets fired from their current jobs because the company can't afford to keep them and tell them that he need that money so he could have health care. My greed doesn't hurt anyone...his selfishness does!

No Rogers. This country cannot afford the military either, much less the war in the ME.

With SS and Medicare unfunded liabilities somewhere from $80 trillion to over $100 trillion, it's insane to compound the liabilities. You should by now how Ponzi Schemes end. If you don't, you will - the hard way.

if you can't beat 'em, join em. Fuck it. I will sell mandatory insurance policies. Supply. Demand. Let that horseshit pass. No one will be able to read 2000 pages and only Christ and Pelosi know what other feces are packed in that bill. God Help Us, and in U.S.

A_Citizen is sounds like a complete asshole. Don't fuck up my care is what he is saying. Too fucking bad if millions of Americans can't get any coverage. I got mine fuck you if you didn't get yours is the republican motto.

He is one of the people standing in line demanding that his fellow citizens pay for his health care. He is not one bit ashamed to stick his hand into your pocket or mine to take our money to do it either.

The federal government's money is his money too, A Citizen. Your rhetoric singling him out as selfish is ridiculous. I can't imagine you'd call your grandmother a thief for collecting Social Security and Medicare benefits.

I wish he had to look each person in the eye that gets fired from their current jobs because the company can't afford to keep them and tell them that he need that money so he could have health care.

How many people over the last five years have lost their jobs, lost their health coverage and been unable to get a replacement because of "pre-existing conditions" or other excuses the insurers use to exclude millions of people? Do they matter to you?

Larry,

Are you going to be mad if AIG gets some sweet contract to provide insurance for the government? Does it puzzle you at all that their stock has continued to increase this week? Could it be that people like John Kerry, Pelogosi, Boxer and about 20 other congressmen are a large block of their stockholders? So if you get yours, that is ok.

Larry, I am exactly that A_Citizen. I am not a dumb ass, a henchman, a stooge, or a bank. I believe that everyone needs to work for what they get. I believe in freedom and the rule of law. I also believe in rugged individualism. Therefore, I believe in working to overcome adversity, not throwing a pity party and waiting on the welfare train to come around so someone else can pick up the slack.

Jackass,

By your logic, I guess the motto of the democrat party is please, for the love of God, someone go work for yours so we can take it from you. Our motto only works if someone else does.

The sober fact is the Right wants this bill to fail as a means to establish Obama's impotence, having pushed propaganda for months that such failure necessarily means the end of his presidency.

Wrong A_Citizen the motto is to help those who need it. Helping others won't kill you. You just don't want to help others. I would just assume it's due to greed.

"I also believe in rugged individualism..."

Me, too. Absolutely. But experience teaches it's much easier to be an individualist when backed up by your community. Otherwise you are just one more lonely serf.

You fucking obviously have no clues to what You espouse A)Citrizen I have thought so for quite some time now. You obvuiously didn't read what I typed to You or You can't comprehend it or anything for that matter. I Tried going to Private insurance route they turned Me down so now it is upo to the Government to step in and do their Job. I am sorry that You do not understand this A_Citizen. Someday You will grasp this however probably when You are in some Nursing Home and Relying upon what You claim to be against now. It never fails.

Larry

RCADE,

I only single Larry out in that way because he has already singled himself out on that issue. On most issues, Larry is well thought out and tends to me motivated by a deep sense of what he believes is right. On health care it is because HE has been turned down by insurance carriers. (He has MANY posts to that affect.)

RCADE, the last line of logic is lame. Both my wife and I have pre-existing conditions. If someone gets a job with benefits, the health insurance for that job is REQUIRED to take them. Additionally, when someone loses their job, they have the option of paying for the benefits out of their own pocket for a period of one year. If they get insurance within 90 days of their insurance lapsing, every insurance company I have spoken with covers the person. (Yes, I have been shopping, as I am considering having my wife stay home instead of working.) If someone CHOOSES not to continue to pay for that insurance, that is their decision. I sincerely doubt that that number is in the "millions". The only people who believe the number to be that large are dems...and they shovel that shit to justify what they are trying to do to the rest of us.

So the libbies think they have the votes in a majority Democratic chamber to raise taxes, and dramatically increase the size and role of government.

What a surprise! What courage!

I guess the motto of the democrat party is please, for the love of God, someone go work for yours so we can take it from you.

No, it's that there are some things we must do together because we cannot do them alone, and government is often the best way to do them. Interstate Highway System, Social Security, Medicare, taking Europe back from the Nazis, taking Asia back from the Japanese, and on and on. Rugged individualism is great, but heaven help any rugged individual who is self-employed and trying to get health insurance for his or her family.

Whaty a sad pathetic righty. Just because You have Yours then fuck everyone else. Typical attitudinal problem with many a conservative and yes some Liberals as well. Typical bullshit.

Larry

How many people over the last five years have lost their jobs, lost their health coverage and been unable to get a replacement because of "pre-existing conditions" or other excuses the insurers use to exclude millions of people? Do they matter to you?

The question should be, is the cure worse than the disease? Ever since government began screwing around with the health care industry, it's deteriorated this badly. To give them total control will only exacerbate the deterioration.

This country should be renamed USSA, the Union of Socialist States of America. Where everybody has a job and everybody has free medical care - just like the USSR.

Jackass,

I love to help others. I probably give away $10,000 in free legal work per year to those who need it. But I do it at a time and place of MY choosing, not at the point of a government gun.

There is a huge difference between the two.

Why is it the Righties always claim to give moneies and always know the dollar amount given. It sure doesn't sound like You actually give out of the goodness of Your heart because if You had given it out of the goodness of Your heart I wouldn't know about it because it would have been just between the giver and the givee. It never fails. NEVER FAILS.

Larry

The difference is that one cause you support the other you don't. I just hope the choice is taken out of your hands.

Rugged individualism is great, but heaven help any rugged individual who is self-employed and trying to get health insurance for his or her family.

RCADE,

You should read my post. I am one of those people. It wasn't that bad of a deal.

So are you changing your position to be that there are MILLIONS of self employed people trying to get insurance for their families? I thought you were concerned about MILLIONS of people that had lost their jobs and could not get insurance. Once you set the goal posts, you have to leave them there.

I guess the motto of the democrat party is please, for the love of God, someone go work for yours so we can take it from you.

No, it's that there are some things we must do together because we cannot do them alone, and government is often the best way to do them. Interstate Highway System, Social Security, Medicare, taking Europe back from the Nazis, taking Asia back from the Japanese, and on and on. Rugged individualism is great, but heaven help any rugged individual who is self-employed and trying to get health insurance for his or her family.

On most issues, Larry is well thought out and tends to me motivated by a deep sense of what he believes is right. On health care it is because HE has been turned down by insurance carriers. (He has MANY posts to that affect.)

So what? He tried to get private insurance under the existing system, they told him to fuck off, so he's turned to his government to get coverage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with favoring a government program that will benefit you personally along with millions of other people like you.

Both my wife and I have pre-existing conditions. If someone gets a job with benefits, the health insurance for that job is REQUIRED to take them. Additionally, when someone loses their job, they have the option of paying for the benefits out of their own pocket for a period of one year.

And after that, what? Your choices are terrible when that year runs out.

If you find a job and either you or your spouse has expensive health care needs, many businesses will find their premiums jacked up to the hilt. It's a way to pressure employers to cut costs by cutting those expensive employees.

The current system had its chance, and it failed. Private insurers only want to insure young healthy people.

So are you changing your position to be that there are MILLIONS of self employed people trying to get insurance for their families? I thought you were concerned about MILLIONS of people that had lost their jobs and could not get insurance. Once you set the goal posts, you have to leave them there.

I'm not changing my position at all. I am in favor of any system that kills pre-existing conditions and enables all Americans to be assured of health insurance coverage, either through private companies or government run care. It will be less expensive in the long run than what we have at present.

The current system is killing entrepreneurship in this country. If we had a guarantee of universal health care, how many Americans could leave jobs they hate and start their own companies? It would fuel an entrepreneurial boom that would rival the birth of Silicon Valley.

RCADE,

Rugged individualism is great, but heaven help any rugged individual who is self-employed and trying to get health insurance for his or her family.

That part of the bill is great but what about the part that says you must have coverage that conforms to the government standard? I have an insurance plan through work that is good for my needs but what happens when the government says that it is not an approved plan? My company has to match the approved plan. What happens if the approved plan sucks for someone who has to take 30k a year in perscription meds? Am I just screwed?

The bottom line is I might support this plan if I knew what it was, as it stands now I have no idea what will happen to my insurance over the next 2 years and I have no idea if I will be able to afford everything I need.

It seems like I am the kind of guy this bill is suposed to help and yet I could very well be screwed by it. I just don't know and frankly neither do you Larry or Pelosi for that matter.

How can we support a law that will define the kind of insurance we have without knowing what that definition is.

I love to help others. I probably give away $10,000 in free legal work per year to those who need it. But I do it at a time and place of MY choosing, not at the point of a government gun.

There is a huge difference between the two.

#52 | Posted by A_Citizen

You can up that if this pos bill passes. They are going to send people to jail for not getting their 15k policy.

RCADE,

"There's absolutely nothing wrong with favoring a government program that will benefit you personally along with millions of other people like you."

So you have no problem with me favoring war if I own defense contractor stocks? What about favoring high oil prices and oil subsidies if I own oil stocks. (There are millions of us in those boats.) Do you still support your own logic?

"And after that, what? Your choices are terrible when that year runs out."

OK, so that justifies fucking up the system for those who can afford it? Because others are faced with "bad choices"? What do you think those employers are going to do if they have to pay for insurance for employees (over a certain number)? I am a fan of "Contract labor" and "temp services". will that raise or lower the standard of living. Are you prepared to see (force) the workforce to shift like that? As I said earlier, what are you going to do if we end up with a dual system like England...where one group gets immediate quality health care because they have private insurance and the other groups gets "brand X" provided by the government? How is your H1N1 vaccine coming? Still rationing here!

Larry,

Would a public plan for only those that have pre-existing conditions satisfy you? Why such a massive restructuring of the health insurance industry simply to address pre-existing condition issues?

I love to help others. I probably give away $10,000 in free legal work per year to those who need it. But I do it at a time and place of MY choosing, not at the point of a government gun.
...
#52 | Posted by A_Citizen

Sounds like a typical rtard prick. Give something to charity to cover up your insatiable greed and then vote yourself an even larger tax cut promised by Reagan, Bush, etc.

Ah, the same arguments, pretty much, that we've been seeing here on DR for MONTHS.

Btw, is the bill available to read or not? I read critics on here saying it wasn't? If that's true, how do any of you know if the bill is a POS or not? Seriously.

Would a public plan for only those that have pre-existing conditions satisfy you? Why such a massive restructuring of the health insurance industry simply to address pre-existing condition issues?

Posted by SomeGuy2 at 2009-11-07 06:21 PM | Reply

NO it would not satisfy me. Private insurance companies have fucked over too many people for My liking. I hope this Government Option bankrupts many of them because they deserve it. They deserve to go into the shitter of history for shitting upon their policy holders. How many times has a privatye insurance company kept a person on up until He or She gets real sick then they find any escuse to eliminate them from their rolls. They loved them when they were paying in but not now when it is time to collect. No I want the whole thing overhalled and a vast majority of private insurers trashed. That's what I hope ultimately happens.

Larry

"Entrepreneurial boom"

Very possibly.

#58

Tao, folks in your position are what makes single payer the only reasonable option. When you know your medical costs are fixed, what you are asking for is subsidy, not insurance. Insurance is for when one side gambles that you won't need coverage and the other side gambles you will. That doesn't/cant happen when somebody has a pre existing condition that requires ongoing medication and care.
Trying to provide for people like you or larry within the existing "insurance" system just doesn't make sense. In the long run its got to be universal single payer, everbody in, nobody out. Its the only way to cover everyone. Anything less is piecemeal tinkering that only punts the problem downfieldx for an eledction cycle or two. And that's only if public option is even close to successful. Otherwise it may kill reform for another generation.

So there are 177 Repubs who are going to vote no.

There are 49 blue dogs or folks who are dems in districts who voted for McCain.

That total is 226--and there may be more or less blue dogs as I heard there are 80 blue dogs in the congress as well.

Pelosi's number is 218 for this to pass?

If blue dogs are going to walk the plank for this bill--good riddance and good bye in 2010.

This thing won't pass the Senate--they don't even have 50 votes let alone 60.

So the congress people who vote for this will be left out to dry--Obama has no coat tails to get someone re-elected (no coat really) just ask Corzine.

Larry,

Don't forget, as your revenge plays itself out...more and more people will find themselves without insurance - benefits that they have PAID for over time, not to mention those people that will lose their jobs. You want all of that for your own revenge and you say I am a bad citizen or I am greedy?

Hag,

I agree if they were to present a bill expanding medicare to all or with a defined public option I would be on the bandwagon yelling for reform but thats not what they are doing.

They are selling up a pig in a poke. At this point the only thing left is to pray that this turns out to be a pig and not a bunch of rats.

Don't forget, as your revenge plays itself out...more and more people will find themselves without insurance - benefits that they have PAID for over time, not to mention those people that will lose their jobs. You want all of that for your own revenge and you say I am a bad citizen or I am greedy?

Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-07 06:30 PM | Reply

That's not my problem not My fault.. That is the insurance companies problem/fault. I am sorry that You just do not get it A_Citizen.

So you have no problem with me favoring war if I own defense contractor stocks? What about favoring high oil prices and oil subsidies if I own oil stocks. (There are millions of us in those boats.) Do you still support your own logic?

I do. Your examples are weak. No one who owns oil stocks would be under any illusions that millions of people would benefit from oil subsidies.

Wanting universal health coverage for yourself does not make you selfish. I'm sure Larry, like me, would be glad to buy private insurance if it was available, affordable and would never drop us.

Wanting universal health coverage for yourself does not make you selfish. I'm sure Larry, like me, would be glad to buy private insurance if it was available, affordable and would never drop us.

Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 06:33 PM | Reply

Yes Sir. But Private Insurance companies don't want Me so what do You do??

Larry

Republicans here prove day after day they have no redeeming qualities. They are basically subhuman creatures.

Are folks watching this dog and pony show on c-span??

TaoWarrior: I don't know whether this bill is the best bill. I would have supported *any* bill that eliminated pre-existing conditions and made universal health care attainable. I would have supported a Republican bill that made catastrophic care universal and made people pay for everything else out of pocket.

All I want is health coverage I can count on forever.

What I know today is that the Democrats have put forward a solution and spent the political capital necessary to get it passed.

The Republicans spent eight years under Bush doing nothing about this. Even though he was the most big-spending president they've ever had, they couldn't make health insurance reform a priority. The only health care they gave a crap about was Terri Schiavo's.

So here we are, and I find myself reaching for the Democratic bill for a simple reason: Americans are drowning in medical debt. The Democrats are the party that's extending a life preserver.

Are folks watching this dog and pony show on c-span?

I'm listening to it. Excruciating. Just vote already dammit.

When discussing what will happen when Larry gets his revenge on the insurance companies, Larry is happy to say:

That's not my problem not My fault.. That is the insurance companies problem/fault. I am sorry that You just do not get it A_Citizen.

But is critical of me when discussing my willingness to pay for his health insurance and the plight of the uninsured in general if I say anything that remotely sounds like:

That's not my problem not My fault.. That is the UNINSURED PERSON'S problem/fault. I am sorry that You just do not get it LARRY.

Prag,

Btw, is the bill available to read or not? I read critics on here saying it wasn't? If that's true, how do any of you know if the bill is a POS or not? Seriously.

Is this bill online yet? How do we know it offers a "life preserver"? What if it does result in rationing that, but for this bill, prevents some folks from obtaining "life preserving" medical attention? Would it still be a "life preserver" to them?

So here we are, and I find myself reaching for the Democratic bill for a simple reason: Americans are drowning in medical debt. The Democrats are the party that's extending a life preserver.

A life preserver made of lead. Who Pays???

It boggles my mind how proponents of big government fool themselves into thinking good intentions displace unintended consequences.

Why is it My fault because of bad behaviors of insurance companies?? They are the sad greedy fucks who shat upon their policyholders. NOT I. I had absolutely nothing to do with their attitudinal problems.

Larry

It boggles my mind how proponents of big government fool themselves into thinking good intentions displace unintended consequences.

Medicare is big government. Social Security is big government. The interstate highway system is big government. The military is big government. And on and on.

As history teaches, big governments decline and fall. What I see here is the kind of mass delusion that marks the late stages of big government. They all go broke.

Larry,

Why is it My fault because of bad behaviors / choices of people who currently find themselves uninsured?? They are the sad greedy fucks who shat upon their responsibilities to provide for themselves. NOT I. I had absolutely nothing to do with their problems.

Maybe after arguing with yourself you will be shocked back into that thoughtful, reasonable person I know and love.

Regarding the healthcare issue, to revive an old phrase used back in the welfare debate, "mend it. Don't end it."

There's no argument from anyone, left or right, that the present set up is 100% fine.

Then it becomes a 'what is the best course of action' to:
1. identify the most pressing problems
2. devise a plan to remedy those problems

Here are your options:

-government health care, inefficient as hell and will lead to more and more debt.
-continue to be raped by the private system.

Take your pick!

Why is it My fault because of bad behaviors / choices of people who currently find themselves uninsured?

You think the uninsured all got that way because of choices they made? Sheesh.

Here are your options:
-government health care, inefficient as hell and will lead to more and more debt.
-continue to be raped by the private system.
Take your pick!

Option 3: To be gang raped by a public system.

I'm old enough to remember when government regulations were minimal and health care was affordable.

The bad thinking here is to blame a private system crippled by excessive regulation and subsidies on a non-existent private system with no regulations. No institution can screw up a market economy better than government. They can't even do a simple thing like control their spending.

Health care reform will prove in the end, to be as big of a boon to the middle class as Social Security and Medicare.

Did You see vthat desperate Republican use His i believe grandbaby in opposing health care reform bwhahahahaha so long Republicans bwhahahaha It must suck for the blockers of progress. Such a disgrace.

Larry

Why is it My fault because of bad behaviors / choices of people who currently find themselves uninsured?? They are the sad greedy fucks who shat upon their responsibilities to provide for themselves. NOT I. I had absolutely nothing to do with their problems.

Maybe after arguing with yourself you will be shocked back into that thoughtful, reasonable person I know and love.

#83 | Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-07 07:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Your tripe belongs on a recycled piece of TP. I have said this 3 times now and You fail to grasp the understanding necessary to get it. I have tried to go the Private route. They told Me Fuck You and that was that. It's now time for the federal government to step in and do their jobs. I am sorry that You are having such a hard time of grasping this information.

Larry

The memo went out for every Republican to use the phrases "government takeover of our health care" and "Speaker Pelosi's bill."

Larry: Is it true that you are so selfish you drive on interstate highways?

Larry: Is it true that you are so selfish you drive on interstate highways?

Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 07:29 PM | Reply

Yes and sometimes I pull over and piss on them too just for good measure.

Larry

PS I'll take the dump if You want.

Rcade.

I don't recall saying "all". If you want to do some sort of testing and exclude EVERYONE that made a choice that resulted in their being uninsured, I may support that option. I will tell you that it would be limited to people with genetic conditions, people who were "born that way", or developed medical problems through no fault of their own. I am not paying for AIDS patients, gangland shootings, prenatal services, abortions, treatment for illnesses related to obesity, smoking, drug use, etc. I am also not paying for anyone that chose to take the extra money in their pay check rather than pay for the insurance "because they are healthy now". I am not paying for illegal aliens or anyone that tests positive for the presence of drugs.

Wonder how many of those alleged "millions" are left in the waiting room.

Larry

You may have no good options. To keep costs down, health care will have to be rationed. I can assure you, if some bureaucrat in the central office decides you are too expensive, you will be cut off. That's how socialized medicine works everywhere else.

I hear a lot of 'government suckers' here... how about working a little harder to pay your own way rather than trying to mooch off of us who do work hard for what we have...and, why the hell should I support you??? sounds like you could make a living with that fast working mouth of yours if nothing else.. I am neither a Repub or Dem, and you have no credibility to criticize those who do work for a living.. #84 is in the ballpark with his intelligent and objective remarks... I, for one, do not believe in creating a larger welfare state for people like 'Jackass (appropriately named)' and 'Loafing' Larry...

Larry,

So in your view it is the Federal Government's job to fuck over anyone that says "fuck you" to you? (Remember you want them all bankrupted because they deserve it.) It apparently doesn't matter if it fucks over the rest of us at the same time.

I got your bitch every time you have said it. So, unless you are saying that you would be opposed to the bill if this problem had not occurred, that doesn't change the fact that your self interest does not translate to a national need.

You may have no good options. To keep costs down, health care will have to be rationed. I can assure you, if some bureaucrat in the central office decides you are too expensive, you will be cut off. That's how socialized medicine works everywhere else.

Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 07:33 PM | Reply

Oh Myyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I may get cut off?? Hell I ain'ty covered now so it would be a step up for Me to be cut off. Especially when You aren't attached to anything.

Larry

You may have no good options. To keep costs down, health care will have to be rationed. I can assure you, if some bureaucrat in the central office decides you are too expensive, you will be cut off. That's how socialized medicine works everywhere else.

Speaking as someone who has lived in several countries with socialize health care, I can unequivically state: Bullshit!

I've lived in the UK, Canada, Ireland and Australia. I've seen a LOT of stories get told by the fear-mongering "government's comin the getcha!" crowd and not a single one jibes with what I know to be the case.

Yes, there are times where one has to wait for elective things, but even that is rare.

To be honest, the economy in this country probably won't last a whole hell of a lot longer unless a universal healthcare plan is implemented.

I will tell you that it would be limited to people with genetic conditions, people who were "born that way", or developed medical problems through no fault of their own. I am not paying for AIDS patients, gangland shootings, prenatal services, abortions, treatment for illnesses related to obesity, smoking, drug use, etc. I am also not paying for anyone that chose to take the extra money in their pay check rather than pay for the insurance "because they are healthy now". I am not paying for illegal aliens or anyone that tests positive for the presence of drugs.

You have a promising career ahead of you as a health insurance claims processor.

"Now find 223(b)(5)(B) in the document."

Thanks. What a pain in the ass. : ) Can you boil down the cross-reference for me? (I trust Tao 'cause he doesn't generally take a partisan stand...) What does it mean?

+++++

Back to the online question--so it is online. Was the argument that it wasn't online 72 hours before? Before what? Before debate began? When did it appear online?

+++++

"I am not paying for AIDS patients,"

Do all people with AIDS suffer from it because of unsafe sex? Is unsafe sex with someone of the opposite sex different for you from unsafe sex with someone of the same sex?

"gangland shootings,"

That's their fault too? THeir choice?

"prenatal services,"

WHAT?! Why not? Our insurance covers prenatal services. Prenatal services aren't important? Never mind the giving a shit about other humans. How about practical effect? A healthy pregnant woman is a healthy mother who generally gives birth to a healthy baby, saving us lots of money...

" abortions,"

No matter what?

"treatment for illnesses related to obesity,"

What about people whose obesity is not related to their choices? And please define obesity.

"smoking, drug use, "

Okay. I can go with those two.

"etc. I am also not paying for anyone that chose to take the extra money in their pay check rather than pay for the insurance "because they are healthy now"."

Huh? Did the idea that everyone needs to be insured not make it into this bill? Last I heard, the president was against people choosing to slide because they "didn't need" insurance. And I can tell you that if I had been able to afford insurance in my 20s, I would have taken it. My job didn't pay for it, and I couldn't pay out of pocket. But I lived in NYC (coulda been hit by a bus anytime, coulda been attacked, coulda gotten some horrible respiratory disease...) and would have been happy to have insurance.

" I am not paying for illegal aliens or anyone that tests positive for the presence of drugs."

Define drugs. What about smokers? What about caffeine consumers? What about people who have high cholesterol or blood pressure for genetic reasons? (Are you a doctor? I'm not.) Illegal aliens? Are they covered in this bill?

Laundry lists are fun, but I'd love some definition. With over 1,000 pages, maybe you could take more than a sentence...
*sigh*

I am not paying for boob jobs, except for white women in their 40s who reside in North Florida, and then only for augmentation and not reduction.

I'm glad to see Rcade has a sense of humor.

Someone needs to turn that post into an Afkabl2 version....

Option 3: To be gang raped by a public system.

I'm old enough to remember when government regulations were minimal and health care was affordable.

The bad thinking here is to blame a private system crippled by excessive regulation and subsidies on a non-existent private system with no regulations. No institution can screw up a market economy better than government. They can't even do a simple thing like control their spending.

#87 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 07:22 PM

Yeah, what the hell happened? I've heard that up until 1975, the majority of people didn't need insurance for basic things. Only emergencies.

WTF?

What made a basic check-up so expensive all of a sudden? These are the questions that we should be asking ourselves. Maybe it has something to do with the shift away from production jobs into service, including medical, based jobs. I can tell you right now that ANY position in the health industry will make you a fucking killing. I see people making 6 figures a year programming basic medical billing applications. These same applications for non-medical purposes cost about half the price as their medical counterparts.

Ptragmatist,

I was responding to RCADE's statement about people who are in an "uninsurable condition" because of their own choices, not as to what I think should be covered.

If you are not insured and get pregnant, I shouldn't have to pay for it. If you are uninsured and get pregnant and want an abortion, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

As to AIDS, there are three ways to get AIDS. Sex, needles, blood transfusion. The third is statistically not heard of. The other two are choices and i don't care about the sexual preference of the person if that is what you were fishing for.

"Drugs" how about "illegal drugs or drugs for which you don't have a prescription but one is required."

If you are not insured and get pregnant, I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Drawing the line there denies quality prenatal care to pregnant women and we get more children with disabilities and educational problems that dog them throughout their lives. Penny wise, pound foolish.

So what is so difficult about the idea that you should get insurance BEFORE getting pregnant?

'A_CITIZEN'....these dregs just seem to never take any responsibility.... no self-esteem, no ambition, no pride...just bitter ones who want someone else to pay their way...
I do believe that children should have basic care at the minimum...denied quality prenatal does not predict disabilities, etc.. I also believe the elderly who have paid into systems all their life and cannot earn a wage should be taken care of for life.. the in-between, unless you have a birth total disability or a war time total disability that prevents ANY kind of contribution, get your ass out there and work like the rest of us, even if it takes 3-4 jobs... BE RESPONSIBLE...

#106...why should I have to pay for someone who is totally irresponsible and is not accountable for their actions???

"I was responding to RCADE's statement about people who are in an "uninsurable condition" because of their own choices, not as to what I think should be covered."

Okay, thanks. I'm not sure whether that's hair-splitting, but you responded calmly, so I'll take the same tack. : )

"If you are not insured and get pregnant, I shouldn't have to pay for it. "

Hm. I'd have to think about that one. Of course, I'm inclined toward single-payer or something like, so I guess I don't agree. But assuming we don't have that, and we won't for at least a couple of decades, I bet, well, shit. I might have to go along with it, given my "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em" attitude. But then, on the purely economic scale, it's still cheaper to help the pregnant than to not. Medical treatments catch up to all of us sooner than later, economically speaking, right? Or do we not agree on that, either? That rises in costs affect everyone? That insurance companies raise rates when medical costs go up, no matter the reason?

"If you are uninsured and get pregnant and want an abortion, I shouldn't have to pay for it. "

Different discussion. Has the abortion hot button. Hard to even go there. Is abortion covered in this bill? For reasons other than health of the mother? Is it covered in a majority of existing insurance plans? For reasons other than health of the mother?

And btw, you said "I shouldn't have to..." Which means you are talking about what you think should be covered. Or what you're willing to accept, perhaps, as coverable. If it's coming out of your taxes, that is.

"As to AIDS, there are three ways to get AIDS. Sex, needles, blood transfusion. The third is statistically not heard of. The other two are choices and i don't care about the sexual preference of the person if that is what you were fishing for."

Didn't mean to fish. It was a straight question. So to speak. 'Cause if you held to different standards, my answer would be different. And you left out birth. Should a baby born to a drug-addicted mother suffer because he/she was born to a drug-addicted mother. Whether there are 1 of these a year or 10,000 is irrelevant. You said "AIDS patients," as in all.

""Drugs" how about "illegal drugs or drugs for which you don't have a prescription but one is required.""

Fair enough. As long as you include cigarette smokers as well as pot smokers. Which I think you did. (Of all the pot smokers I know, well, let's just say I know more cigarette smokers with health issues than I do pot smokers. But I don't think that was your point.)

Prag,

I will get into it in a bit the Hurricanes are trying to win their 3rd game of the season (now I know how cubs fans feel) so I would rather watch that than get into health care.

^.^

I love how people are putting their trust into a government that can't run some of its own basic systems right ... much less running 1/6th of the nation's economy.

If Larry thinks that the big bad government is gonna take a hand in his own personal revenge story, fine. Just wait until someone else somewhere gets pissed because of HIM. I doubt Larry will be pleased when the big stompy shoe is on the other foot.

I don't buy doing government policy based on the agenda of one person, or a small group, for that matter.

JEB

What made a basic check-up so expensive all of a sudden?

When a third party is responsible for the bill (employer or government), neither patient or doctor have an interest in controlling costs.
When Medicare and Medicaid became law, government needed to regulate prices to contain costs.
The insurance companies have to abide by government price controls.

ANY position in the health industry will make you a fucking killing.

The highly regulated insurance company profits are no more than 2%.

Nothing fucks up a country more than mass ignorance and delusion.

So what is so difficult about the idea that you should get insurance BEFORE getting pregnant?

Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-07 08:04 PM | Reply

They turned Me flat down before I got Pregnant the last time. What am I to do now ???

Larry

Pragmatist,

You will find I very seldom froth at the mouth when I am here.

With regard to regular pregnancy, there is already a system in EVERY state to handle low income mothers. I have a friend that took advantage of it. His kid didn't cost him a dime. Mine cost about $10,000. I have insurance, but don't qualify for the "state plan" that pays for it all. I do understand your point regarding the merit of taking care of the unborn from a moral and cost beneficial standpoint.

Abortion - I don't know if it is in the bill or not. If so, word around the campfire is at least 40 dems will vote against it. There was supposed to be a vote on that issue this afternoon, but I haven't heard the results.

I will also concede your argument with regards to children born with AIDS. I place them into the "Born with it" category and they get a pass. THEIR decision did not contribute to their condition. (See my original post.)

"And btw, you said "I shouldn't have to..." Which means you are talking about what you think should be covered. Or what you're willing to accept, perhaps, as coverable. If it's coming out of your taxes, that is. "

The public option / single pay system / government funded IS MY MONEY. If it is being TAKEN FROM ME, I want it to go to causes I believe in and support, not vote buying and not some program that will wreck our current system.

The highly regulated insurance company profits are no more than 2%.

Nothing fucks up a country more than mass ignorance and delusion.

#113 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag Talking out of his ass

Classy move by Republican Mike Pence, calling the other side "Democrat colleagues" instead of "Democratic colleagues."

The public option / single pay system / government funded IS MY MONEY. If it is being TAKEN FROM ME, I want it to go to causes I believe in and support, not vote buying and not some program that will wreck our current system.

#115 | Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-07 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

You think everyone wants their the money to go to the military--the space program--foreign aid? Quit whining you little punk.

^.^

"You think everyone wants their the money to go to the military--the space program--foreign aid?"

Well, move to a country that doesn't have any of those ... a third world country with nothing in the way of pride or self-respect...

"Quit whining you little punk."

You first.

JEB

#116 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB AT 2009-11-07 08:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Delusional asshole.

^.^

You forgot something...

#116 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB AT 2009-11-07 08:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG: IGNORANT Delusional asshole.

JEB

#120 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag Still talking out of his ass

Post a link or STFU.

Simple isn't it.

The highly regulated insurance company profits are no more than 2%.

Nothing fucks up a country more than mass ignorance and delusion.

#113 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 08:19 PM

Really Ray??? My cousin is a simple recruiter for IT medial jobs. He just landed a project that is giving him a $700,000 commission. Did the cost of operating a recruiting company increase all of a sudden? No, we just all of a sudden put huge demands in heathcare technology, without even looking at what it should actually cost. I'm not just talking about the insurance companies here. There are many other dependant companies within the medical industry that help to increase overall costs. All I see is another fucking bubble developing here, especially with the government's endless supply of monopoly money.

Sorry that's a 10% commission off a $700,000 sale. But still, this is a single sale to one hospital.

#122 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

Since you claim to be the one with the facts, that doesn't stop you from posting an article or two about insurance company profits.

I can't be bothered with you. I never could. You're creepy.

I can't be bothered with you. I never could. You're creepy.

#125 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag

You made the claim alligator mouth back it up or STFU.

You're stupid, always have been.

Simple isn't it

All I see is another fucking bubble developing here, especially with the government's endless supply of monopoly money.
#123 | POSTED BY CHYESS

My point precisely. Massive government subsidized waste goes with the system. Just look at the banking system.

My point precisely. Massive government subsidized waste goes with the system. Just look at the banking system.

#127 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-07 09:00 PM

I totally agree with you on this. Just like Bush thought everyone should own a house.... Obama thinks everyone should have healthcare.

"Quit whining you little punk."

You first.

JEB

#119 | Posted by lunahq7 at 2009-11-07 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag: Misses the point like most dumbass conservatives

I wasn't whining about anything. I support all the programs I mentioned---however, many people do not support those programs The POINT was that A_Citizen wanted to be able to determine where his money was spent. The clue was when he said:

The public option / single pay system / government funded IS MY MONEY. If it is being TAKEN FROM ME, I want it to go to causes I believe in and support

How about you move to a country full of dumbasses, so you feel at home.

I can't be bothered with you. I never could. You're creepy.

#125 | Posted by Ray

Translation: has no answer to Bob's question.

Obama thinks everyone should have healthcare.

#128 | Posted by Chyess at 2009-11-07 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama isn't alone. 59% of the public support him on this---the other 41% can keep the insurance they have. Every industrialized nation on the planet feels the same way. You neanderthals can do whatever you like.

^.^

"He just landed a project that is giving him a $700,000 commission. Did the cost of operating a recruiting company increase all of a sudden?"

Hmm, it sounds like he just became a member of the RICH ... you know, that group of people who don't pay their "fair share' of the taxes in this country, and therefore, must be raped by the government for every dime they can get to pay for programs for those who don't pay any taxes at all, ie: the poor.

Ask your cousin how it feels once the government has to raise taxes to pay for this boondoggle of a healthcare bill.

JEB

^.^

"You neanderthals can do whatever you like."

No, actually, that's the point. Those who disagree with Obummer and his healthcare scheme will be forced to buy into anyway, or deal with hefty penalties and prison time.

"Doing as we like" would be excellent, as we would then be free to choose what healthcare provider we want, a "cadillac plan", or none at all if we wanted...

Go Neanderthals!

JEB

Prag,

What I was refering to was this:

(3) ENHANCED PLAN.An enhanced plan shall
13 offer, in addition to the level of benefits under the
14 basic plan, a lower level of cost-sharing as provided
15 under title II consistent with section 223(b)(5)(A).

Yet no where is there a section 223(b)(5) in fact there are many references to section 223(b)(5). You will also note no where in the bill do they document what kind of coverage a public option will provide. That is all to be sorted out later. Funny 1990 pages and they can't tell us anywhere in there what the coverage they propse is? I am sorry but I just can not see supporting passing this. It says a whole lot but if you look over it there is really nothing said.

Of course since you are a conservative, you hate democracy, and favor kingships with a Bushite as King.

#131 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-11-07 09:10 PM

Wow, Bob. Yes I hate democracy because I question why certain costs in the healthcare industry seem exorbitant, and maybe we should fix this problem before moving on to a universal system.

I would love to see everyone with AFFORDABLE healthcare, like we once had in this country. And if you would have actually read my last post, I blamed Bush for the housing bubble.

Good job. Keep it up.

Go Neanderthals!

Cantor's speaking now. Way to root him on.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making "immoral" and "obscene" returns while "the bodies pile up."

But in pillorying insurers over profits, the critics are on shaky ground. Ledgers tell a different reality.

Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That's anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.

Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.

Insurers are an expedient target for leaders who want a government-run plan in the marketplace. Such a public option would force private insurers to trim profits and restrain premiums to compete, the argument goes. This would "keep insurance companies honest," says President Barack Obama.

^.^

One possible reform would be in a reform of the tort system, so that healthcare providers don't have to:

a): Be afraid of providing care for fear of malpractice suits, and

b): Charge such high prices for everything from heart surgery to aspirin, to Bacitracin ointment, which cost about $10 for a toothpaste-sized tube back in 1995 or so .... gawd I'd hate to think what it would cost now...

Yeah, I agree with Chyess, we should work on fixing the system that exists now, not building an entire new system for the incompetant bureaucraps in DC to manage ... which they've proven time and again, THEY CAN'T!

JEB

JEB

Ray, the insurance companies keep the same same profit margin. But costs are always going up. This is the real problem. Insurance prices are driven up by complimentary services - new drugs we don't need, new computer tech we don't need, government regs that increase costs,.... I could go on. And as more people are driven out of the private market, they end up going to the hospital at the last second before they die and the bill ends up going to the state.

And when the state is paying for things - we like to charge them more, because we know that they'll pay.

And this is how we ended up where we are today.

Rethuglicans would have rammed this through with little or no discussion in a couple of weeks, if they wanted it. But it mot so much that they stand against allthese chanes, they just don't want the Deomwussies to accomplish anything.

Rethuglicans originated Cap & Trade. Its intended as another giveaway to Wall Street. The only reason they resist it today is they don't want the Demowussies to pass anything.

^.^

Actually, the reason the REPUBLICANS (not Rethugs) don't want healthcare to pass, is not only would you have incompetants running the thing, but the expense would simply be passed down the line as more debt to be bought by China, who we all know luvs us with all their great big huge cuddly care-bear hearts ... NOT!

And REPUBLICANS (not Rethugs), don't want cap n trade because not only would it put more strains on our economy, but the biggest polluters on the planet, India and China, won't agree to be put under the same restrictions, and if I were leading either of those countries I WOULDN'T EITHER!

So yeah, the issue is a bit more than "they don't want the Demowussies to pass anything", although I agree with your assessment of the Liberalista Dems as Demowussies, because if they really wanted these things, they would say TO HELL with the Republicans and pass the damn bills, after all, they do have a majority in both the House and Senate, and they have the Obummer Messiah in the White House. What, pray tell, are they waiting for?

JEB

Boehner is pretty good.

They are almost done and then the vote--I think??

Ultimately what this comes down to is corporatist lobbies that work with the government to make back-door deals the push up prices.

It's one giant circle jerk.

And both the Dems and Rethugs know this.

How much are they cutting medicare?

Rather than all the crapp the Dems are trying to push there are plenty of things that will reduce costs.

Tort Reform has been mentioned. It will help.
Eliminate the Monopoly power the insurance companies have.
Allow companies to sell across state lines.
Create tax credits for people who obtain coverage.

One of the few areas in medicine where prices are coming down is cosmetic surgery. Why? Because insurance companies do not cover this, people are paying with their own money so prices are being driven down.

One aproach would be to reduce coverage to only include catastophic coverage. This would force the costs down on other procedure. Auto insurance works much the same way. Insurance does not cover oil changes or new tires.

Another idea would be to work on supply and demand. Take some of the money and create more medical schools. Allowing for more doctors, nurses, etc.

There are many things they can do that do not involve trillions of dollars and taking over our freedoms.

Huge majority doesn't want Democrats' health care bill

With House Democrats racing to pass their 2,000-plus page health care reform bill this weekend, a new CNN/Opinion Research poll shows that an overwhelming majority of those surveyed -- 72 percent -- want Congress either to make major changes, start over from scratch, or simply stop working on health care legislation. Just 26 percent want Congress to pass the current health care proposal as is, or with minor changes.

Voting on c-span on the No Abortion funding is on now.

Stupak Amendment calls for no funding for abortions in the HC bill.

Then they are going to vote for the Republican Substitute.

Appears they will vote for the main bill after that.

If this Stupak does not pass--watch for blue dog dems to Not vote for the main bill.

#146 | Posted by sawdust

Forget about Catastrophic policies--they won't exist under the HC bill if passed.

"Tort Reform has been mentioned. It will help.
Eliminate the Monopoly power the insurance companies have.
Allow companies to sell across state lines.
Create tax credits for people who obtain coverage."

You are missing the fact that these "solutions" wouldn't advance the dems interests in increasing the government's role in heath care.

As I have said elsewhere, this is all about control. This will greatly limit our freedoms.

#146--- Sawdust--- What're you nuts? Common sense out of Washington?

Well said sawdust. All of those would be great starting points.

"One approach would be to reduce coverage to only include catastrophic coverage. This would force the costs down on other procedure. Auto insurance works much the same way. Insurance does not cover oil changes or new tires."

Like I mentioned earlier, this is exactly how the healthcare industry once operated. What the hell happened?

And you know what too, what is the problem with a public option that is only funded with it's member's fees? It's at least worth a shot. It wouldn't be overly concerned with making a profit - this would have to be heavily audited of course - which would greatly increase competition in the private insurance market, not to mention the HUGE pool of customers that they could spread the risk over. If anything maybe it would only cover emergencies.

If the public option can't fund itself, we give it up.

We just need to stop and think about the problems, instead of throwing more money at it. Because all that does is causes more incentives to increase costs.

Looks like the Stupak amendment passed by a total of around 238-192-1.

240-194 and 1 present by Shadegg of AZ (R)..

Now the Repub substitute bill..

They should've called the Republican bill the Health Care Placebo Act of 2009.

So we can call the Dem version Death Taxes and Go To Jail Bill??

lol

Looks like the Stupak amendment passed by a total of around 238-192-1.

#154 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 10:18 PM |

I'm not a fan, but abortions aren't really a high priced procedure.

NO Repub bill

176 to 258 (?)

Looks like the Democrats got that Louisiana Republican to vote "yes" on their health care bill.

In one year, when he's the only Republican re-elected to the House, he'll have that vote to thank for it. ;-).

They should've called the Republican bill the Health Care Placebo Act of 2009.

#156 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 10:22 PM

Well... there is some evidence that Placebos work just as well as the real thing....

So we can call the Dem version Death Taxes and Go To Jail Bill?

Catchy, but I prefer the Bend Over and Cough Act of 2009.

lol

How about Bend Over And Puke Act?

Or Bend Over And Your Are In Jail Now Act?

They should've called the Republican bill the Health Care Placebo Act of 2009.

#156 | Posted by rcade

They should call the Democrat bill the Fuck Up Health Care And Put Another Nail In The Coffin Of Traditional American Values Act of 2009.

I like mine better for the Dem bill..

Death Taxes and Go To Jail Bill

There is a song in there somewhere..

What is the joke about the prostate exam? You know you are in trouble, when you notice the Dr has both hands on your shoulders...

Well, it looks like the Dems are going hands free on this one...

They should call the Democrat bill the Fuck Up Health Care And Put Another Nail In The Coffin Of Traditional American Values Act of 2009.

Oh, yeah? They should call the Republican bill the Hey Scotch Your Mom Left Her Negligee At My House Act of 2009!

Mamas don't let the congress vote for the health care bill.

It'll only give us death and taxes and send us to jail.

lol

Oh, yeah? They should call the Republican bill the Hey Scotch Your Mom Left Her Negligee At My House Act of 2009!

#167 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag: OMGLOLROTFLFWTFBBQ!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
1111

Ouch.

OMFG HAHAHAHAHAHAHA RCADE OH My heavens hahahahahahahahaha Post number 167 Tears hahahahahaha

Those who oppose progressive thinking will find themselves on the dung heap of history. Just like the ones who opposed Medicare Social Security Desegregation etc etc etc etc etc .

Larry

Can RCADE give himself a dump?

:)

j/k it was funny but glad it's not my mom. I would worry about you. :P

If this passes the House--look out, because it won't make it thru the Senate.

Hear the rightwingers cry.

Hear the horrible conservatives wanting to deny coverage for the poor.

Hear the Republicans swearing to prevent care for those they seem unworthy of it.

I don't understand.

The Democrats own the House, Senate, and White House.

If the bill can't be passed, why are the comments aimed at the Right, the Conservatives, or the Republicans?

Why complain about these three groups when the party interfering with the bill is themselves, their own ranks?

It reminds me of every vote that goes along party lines. Someone is wrong.

But, when there problems with a bill, sponsored by the party and their own party prevents passage - it ain't the OTHER party that is the problem.

It's the bill. There are problems with the bill. It's not acceptable and that's obvious and its both parties' members.

In the end, both parties suck. It ain't their healthcare program.

2010 - just once will people please rid us of these two parties members and get some other parties in there. Is there no one to break this horrible monopoly.

Can RCADE give himself a dump?

I nearly banned myself once. I needed a little "me" time.

Now Obama gets out there and lies..

Forget about telling the people about the 15k policy forcing people to buy and if they don't you get to go to jail!!!

:: Caution ::
:: Epic Fail Ahead ::
:: Seek Alternate Route ::

Yeah, that was pretty much the resoning behind this push for health care reform.

This *is* the alternate route that takes Americans off the road to ruin and back on the path to health.

Allowing the health care near-monopoly to continue to constrict and squeeze profit out of the system through denial of coverage and/or claims and price gouging the market simply was no longer a viable option.

This will pass easily in the House.

This will pass with no small effort in the Senate.

But it will pass.

Over the long term the rethugs who obstructed this bill through fear mongering will be seen to have shot themselves in the foot.

So sayeth Spud.

Spud has spake.

Be Well.

Death Taxes and Go To Jail Bill.
All from the halls of capitol hill.
When You die Your taxes you must pay
While Your family bows down to Pray.
If You lack insurance they will make You get
Or a jailcell will be where You'll sit.
Times of the essence times not on Your side.
As Americans face a new and changing tide.
Where people are people once again.
Like when people rejoiced at where life began.
America has turned a corner has turned a new leaf.
Let us hope it doesn't end with a lot of grief.

Larry

Predicting that the house will pass the bill with 228 votes in favor.

That is per the Congressional Quarterly.

Obama is nothing but a fucking piece of shit

Oh, yeah? They should call the Republican bill the Hey Scotch Your Mom Left Her Negligee At My House Act of 2009!

#167 | Posted by rcade

I trust you found her satisfactory Wittle Wogers

That poem was for You Murphy. I know it ain't worth much but I can't write a song and surely can't sing it. I sound like a wailing gnashing A/C motor with a bad bearing. but there it is.

Larry

I nearly banned myself once. I needed a little "me" time.

#175 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 10:51 PM

For awhile I kinda hoped I'd get banned for two weeks so I'd get some things done I'd been putting off and wouldn't be tempted to spend time any time on DR.

Guess I needed to be meaner? I'm in the company of such pros on here when it comes to zingers and throwing out "will get you banned" remarks that anything I say still just makes me sound like a wuss.

I'll practice harder. : )

Hook 'Em, Horns! Go 'Frogs!

All hail Speaker Nancy!

(hahahahaha!)

lunahq7,

If that were true they wouldn't have let Shrub double the national debt from $5.5 to $11 trillion. They were not just silent, but fully supportive of completely wasteful spending, massive giveaways to the rich, and even bought elder votes with a drug program that let drug companies name their own price. $800 in the USA buys the same insulin as $250 in England or $3 in Africa.

Rethuglicans put party before country, speak in remarkable unison on hairbrained bullshit talking points, and possess a disproportionate control of think tanks and media for propaganda purposes. Without these weapons they would not garner more than 25% of the votes with any consistency.

218 yeah!

218!

THANK G-D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is the vote on C-SPAN? I hadn't been watching. Maybe I'll go in now and turn it on.

Like what the Dems did for John Dingle, letting him hsndle the gavel like he did in '65.

Larry

I've been watching run your mouth about not being able to be insured.I want to clear up some questions as to why you can't get insurance.

In Kansas, a small group employer is defined as any company with 2-50 employees. Small group health insurance is guaranteed issue in the state of Kansas....Once determined eligible to join the plan(waiting period), issuance of health insurance coverage is guaranteed and may not be denied or altered in any way due to your health status.

Are you disabled?

If you can't get insurance any other way then KHIA is an alternative.

Eligibility

* You must be a resident of Kansas and also meet the guidelines outlined in one of the following eligibility categories
* Medically Condition Eligibility Category: a) you must have received a notice of declination of health insurance coverage by two health insurance carriers, or b) you were accepted for health insurance

So what is it Larry?Why can't you get insurance?

rwd

Obama is nothing but a fucking piece of shit

One Repub voted for it? Must be a mistake.

1 "Yea" Republican vote. Given Boeher's earlier statement, that makes this bipartisan.

Let the whining begin!

220 to 215--passing with one repub voting yes and 39 dems voting no.

Joseph Gough from LA (R) voted yes.

Trying to find the votes for the dems who voted no.

One Repub voted for it? Must be a mistake.

Word is it's the guy from Louisiana.

I couldn't remember his name. Thanks Murphy.

Joseph Gow (sp?)--he was the one who took Jefferson's seat I think?

It just passed 220-215. Whoopee.

:: Caution ::
:: Epic Fail Ahead ::
:: Seek Alternate Route ::

#1 | Posted by PublicTrough

LAOOOOSAER!

Yep, he took Jefferson's seat. That much I remembered!

Since You asked even though it's really none of Your business RWDon I will tell You.

First off I weigh more than the alotted amount.
I have heart problems (Enlarged Heart High Blood Pressure and I am a type 2 diabetic.
I also have severe ulcer problems(That one is totally My fault)

Larry

Really good Larry.

The Reps buried the country in debt
The Dems told us not to fret
With each passing of another bill
We discover another way to kill
Our lives, Our fortunes, Our Sacred Honor
For which all was given for each other
Our brother is in need we all agreed
But how to fix this awesome bleed
That has shed too much of our people's blood
And yet the cost will come upon us like a flood
So buried in our own partisanships
We have forgotten the quill that dips
The ink that could bring all to their knees
With taxes, charges, and many fees
The welfare of many is a noble cause
Blind abandonment of sense, they falls
For the easy fix instead of duty
To see the ugly, but prefer the beauty
Of another stab at our enemy's side
Is really to ourselves, and hence the tide
Changes from party to party each election year
And to this, I say, I truly fear
That we all will suffer for the negligence of some
Because we just can't kick out all the bums
And there we will lay, upon a bed grass
Unemployed, starving, and kissing their ass.

For Larry

Why does Pelosi look drunk?

Wahoo!

Yep, it's a bipartisan Bill, baby.

There's no place for Sen Dems to hide now.

Joseph Cao (R-LA) voted yes..

E . ' ' / . F Teabagger tears fuel me

Why does Pelosi look drunk?

#206 | Posted by dxlingr

she has reason to celebrate... i gonna have a few myself!

Thanks for the information RWDon I will check into that Monday morning. I sincerely appreciate it.

Larry

Petrous I Love Yours better. Kudos Sir.

Larry

Yep, it's a bipartisan Bill, baby.

There's no place for Sen Dems to hide now.

#208 | Posted by Corky

Rethugs wanted it this way baby...remember...this was to be Obamas Waterloo...it was not about Health Care Reform it was about Stopping Health Care Reform at all costs...

It took a long time, but we finally have a Democratic-led Congress and a Democratic White House with the cajones to pass major legislation and make a real difference in this country.

Wahoo! I'm going to go tip something over.

"Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage"

~ Michelle Bachman, Glenn Beck, Joe Wilson, et al.

Wahoo! I'm going to go tip something over.

#215 | Posted by rcade

Cheers Rcade! Me so happy! Headin to the Pub for a Secret meeting with the local Atheists to plan our Revolution!

Since You asked even though it's really none of Your business RWDon I will tell You.

First off I weigh more than the alotted amount.
I have heart problems (Enlarged Heart High Blood Pressure and I am a type 2 diabetic.
I also have severe ulcer problems(That one is totally My fault)

#203 | Posted by LarryMohr

Actually it is my business since you constantly complain about not being able to receive insurance.
It is a perfectly acceptable question to ask.
I just showed you that you are able to receive insurance so your constant harping is either disingenuous if not an outright lie.
All your problems are self inflicted but you continue to behave as if you are a victim.
Don't you see where i'm going with this Larry?

rwd

-I'm going to go tip something over

Ah, let her go to bed!

Pelosi put together a deal over abortion between mods and libs, where the libs gave a little, and that put them over 218, barely.

Good job by the much caricatured Speaker.

Outhouse tipping is fun RCADE too bad You don't live close to hayseed Country. It's even funner if someones in it.

Larry

So RWDon is now trying to be a dick. I should have known He was upto some shit.

Larry

I still appreciate the help with that insurance program though RWDon. Thanks in all sincerity.

'Gator Tipping is more dangerous than Cow Tipping.... those rascals are quick!

When do we march on Washington, and hold everyone of those mother fuckers who voted for this obamanation accountable for high treason against the mass majority of Americans, these fuckers don't tell us what they want, we tell them.
Our Constitution gives us the right to bring these clowns to their knees, and all that backed this heinous crime against the American people.

Ha! NYT, LA Times, WaPo, pretty much any online paper has the headline already - everyone but Matt Drudge. Aww.

#221 | Posted by LarryMohr

Larry I don't really give a shit about you.A simple google search was all I needed to prove you to be a lying tool.

rwd

To the barricades, komrades! Let's preserve this great victory for the proletariat and move forward!

Close vote!

The votes by person still not posted any where?

Awesome, now how about we pass a bill to audit the federal reserve?

What's that?

You're not going to do that?

....

Sweet!

Can we now read the bill?

I want to see how many millions my congressman got to save polywogs as half of my co workers have been laided off.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-- wait --

It passed, you say? What does that mean, really? Lets see some real change now, dammit!

Our secret program to have schoolchildren sing the praises of the president paid off!

To the barricades, komrades!

Palin just Tweeted, "Hit the mattresses, T'baggers!"

God, if I believed all the the buckets full of fearmongering horseshit and extreme convolutions of facts that the GNOP was sellin' I'd be scared, too.

I notice the media can't be bothered with this on a Sat nite.

Larry I don't really give a shit about you.A simple google search was all I needed to prove you to be a lying tool.

rwd

Posted by rightwingdon at 2009-11-07 11:30 PM | Reply

You're full of shit. I wished I had saved all of My rejection letters I'd send them to You. Of course You wouldn't read them anyways. Sighhhhhhhhhhh oh well No sweat off of My balls that's for sure.

Larry

Why does Pelosi look drunk?

#206 | Posted by dxlingr at 2009-11-07 11:16 PM

She looks like she always does to me, maybe the dentures are loose.

She's a member of congress. They are not used to working on weekends.

-Our secret program to have schoolchildren sing the praises of the president paid off!

Wait 'till they find out that H1 vaccine contains a Single Payer bacteria.

Yeah and if you don't buy their kind of insurance policy--that will cost a family 15k a year--you get fined 250k and go to jail!

Wahoo!!!!

Larry I don't really give a shit about you.

Then why are you climbing up his ass -- free colon screening?

Hail to the Chief!! Hail to President Obama. He is closing in on the greatest Legislative victory of the past half century. Amazing! What a wonderful event for the American people! I am very proud to be an American at this moment. Finally our government is taking action on behalf of all Americans, not just the wealthy and the privledged.

-free colon screening?

He has his own clinic.

Wait to see if the Senate passes it--unlikely. Not with a public option.

WHere are all the rightwing assholes who just earlier today were proclaiming the bill would never pass the House? LOL. What a WONDERFUL day.

You're full of shit. I wished I had saved all of My rejection letters I'd send them to You. Of course You wouldn't read them anyways. Sighhhhhhhhhhh oh well No sweat off of My balls that's for sure.

Larry

#235 | Posted by LarryMohr

If you spent a little more time helping yourself then you wouldn't be in the position you are right now,begging for government relief.
I do believe I speak for A_Citizen when I say that.

rwd

Larry, try to get a job with the government if you can. I can tell you that per month, my insurance runs around $750. I only end up paying $50 a month. They didn't do any sort of medical check with me, but maybe it's because I'm under 30.

Even seeing "out-of-network" specialists is covered fairly well.

Good luck to you. I'm sure passing this bill will only increase benefits to state employees.

Then why are you climbing up his ass -- free colon screening?

Posted by rcade at 2009-11-07 11:42 PM | Reply

I think I'd much rather have a free colon screening by one of Buffalo Bob's car antennas Thank You very much.

Larry

Ha! NYT, LA Times, WaPo, pretty much any online paper has the headline already - everyone but Matt Drudge. Aww.

#225 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2009-11-07 11:30 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

As of this posting, the above remains accurate.

If you spent a little more time helping yourself then you wouldn't be in the position you are right now,begging for government relief.
I do believe I speak for A_Citizen when I say that.

rwd

#245 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2009-11-07 11:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Hey Smooochies. Thanks for the impromtu colon screening. Did I pass or fail?? Any Polyps??

Larry

Passed?

w00t!

"Government In Action" as opposed to "Government Inaction"?

Makes a nice change does that.

'Bout bloody time too.

Be Well.

/Curious to hear the rationales of not only the 39 Dems who voted against the Bill but also the sole Republican who broke ranks to vote for it.

Victory for America. And, less importantly, also a victory for the Democratic leadership in Washington D.C. Rightwingers will be bitching andwhining about this for some time to come. Wow. Just wonderful.

It is a wonderful night in America, Moder8. Good for America!

/Curious to hear the rationales of not only the 39 Dems who voted against the Bill but also the sole Republican who broke ranks to vote for it.

#251 | Posted by dethspud at 2009-11-07 11:55 PM

You can always follow the money.

"Then why are you climbing up his ass -- free colon screening?"

The American Cancer Society just joined the AARP and the AMA and the Nurses Assoc and Consumer groups in endorsing this Bill tonight.

Spud feels like celebrating.

Did Jacqui Se Mao expire due to alcohol poisoning, or what?

I'd have expected a rabid tirade by now...

...unless he and his trusty rifle are now on their way to D.C. to "neutralize" a few "targets"...

"Did Jacqui Se Mao expire due to alcohol poisoning, or what?"

Probably is on suicide watch...hopefully. :)

I want to see all the last minute pork they doled out to get this massive 5 vote victory.

Are you people that stupid?

Did you say, "bubbly"?

Ever notice that when Republicans spend trillions of dollars it seems to always be for wars and killing people. But when a bill comes along that will help tens of millions of ordinary Americans, these self same Republicans are dead-set against it. Suddenly they begin screaming about fiscal responsibility. Funny how that works, huh. (Fucking bloodthirsty hypocrites.)

Are you people that stupid?

#260 | Posted by Mato at 2009-11-08 12:04 AM

No, I fear it's much worse. People are just now totally apathetic.

No, actually, that's the point. Those who disagree with Obummer and his healthcare scheme will be forced to buy into anyway, or deal with hefty penalties and prison time.

You can keep the healthcare plan you have now. The bill would not force you to change a thing.

Yep, they spent 100's of billions on tax cuts for the wealthy and a preemptive war, none of it paid for when this Bill is.

Forgive them Founding Fathers for they know not the incalculable ignominies they are about to wrought upon your noble legacy of limited government

"People are just now totally apathetic"

=Forgive them Founding Fathers for they know not the incalculable ignominies they are about to wrought upon your noble legacy of limited government

Said about Social Sec, Medicare, and this Bill.... the GNOP, wrong for 40 years.

No, I fear it's much worse. People are just now totally apathetic.

#263 | Posted by Chyess at 2009-11-08 12:06 AM

I hope your wrong because this is outrageous.

All the libs here will be back wondering "what happened?"

Dems that tow the party line + Repubs of the last two decades...
Three dishwashers and five servers lose their jobs on Tuesday. Their children thank you.

Pelosi: Buy a $15,000 policy or go to jail;
Failure to comply, 5 years in prison...

I never actually thought libs were this stupid.

Shame on me.

"People are just now totally apathetic"

Ugh. Who cares?

"Forgive them Founding Fathers for they know not the incalculable ignominies they are about to wrought upon your noble legacy of limited government"

Said about Social Sec, Medicare, and this Bill.... the GNOP, wrong for 40 years.
#268 | POSTED BY CORKY

And from all my people that got health coverage before I could afford to give it to myself. FUCK YOU!

Yay America!!!! It's about time Americans looked out for Americans.

Yes I know what the word apathetic means. I don't really give a shit what the government does at this point. Either way, a private or public system are both going to have their problems. In the end all I can really be sure of is that someone, somewhere is exploiting the system. Which is why I said people most likely aren't just stupid about all the pork that probably got passed with this - they just simply don't care. They are suffering and they want a quick solution. And there is nothing that will ever change that.

Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way?

"And from all my people that got health coverage before I could afford to give it to myself. FUCK YOU!"

You got me. What does this mean Chez?

There is no debate, just a parade of Republican assholes bringing up their grandchildren, great-grandchildren and some even pretend to cry because "veterans deserve the right to choose!" It's pathetic, on both C-SPAN1 and C-SPAN2, but it isn't "debate".

They continually prove how much Republicans need to be removed from office ASAP.

#6 | Posted by redlightrobot

these guys are a bunch of fucking scumbags. I watch cspan and want to throttle them for the complete assholishness that they exhibit.

Our secret program to have schoolchildren sing the praises of the president paid off!

Now if we can just get all those secret re-education camps build in time fer the Big Republican Roundup (tm) Obama's secret muslim socialist plan could very well werk!

But, Shhhhh ...not so loud.

Some of them can read, you know.

Not well or anything...

Just saying.

Be Well.

/Yes, enjoying meself immensely
//How could ya tell? :-D

the complete assholishness that they exhibit.

Smug righteousness mixed with outright jerkishness.

It's an "Assholier Than Thou" vibe they give off.

Be Well.

Dr. Soul,

You have to forgive Larry. He has a personal stake in this one. He is one of the people standing in line demanding that his fellow citizens pay for his health care. He is not one bit ashamed to stick his hand into your pocket or mine to take our money to do it either.

I wish he had to look each person in the eye that gets fired from their current jobs because the company can't afford to keep them and tell them that he need that money so he could have health care. My greed doesn't hurt anyone...his selfishness does!

#36 | Posted by A_Citizen

hey retard.. this bill doesn't pass you won't be able to afford health insurance either. FACT

A_CITIZEN'....these dregs just seem to never take any responsibility.... no self-esteem, no ambition, no pride...just bitter ones who want someone else to pay their way...
I do believe that children should have basic care at the minimum...denied quality prenatal does not predict disabilities, etc.. I also believe the elderly who have paid into systems all their life and cannot earn a wage should be taken care of for life.. the in-between, unless you have a birth total disability or a war time total disability that prevents ANY kind of contribution, get your ass out there and work like the rest of us, even if it takes 3-4 jobs... BE RESPONSIBLE...

#108 | Posted by drsoul

idiot..most of us are self employed and pay more in taxes into the system than you ever will.There needs to be a system in place that I can pay in to that will keep my premiums reasonable and provide quality health care. I do not abuse health care even if it is cheap. I do want an assurance to be able to provide for my family that if an unfortunate accident or illness happens my family won't be living under a bridge due to health care bills that can't be paid. As for all you c-suckers that keep calling us self employed people that help provide you ungrateful fucks with FOOD ( I am a farmer)lazy..I laugh . You fat fucks couldn't make it ONE DAY on my farm.

The public option / single pay system / government funded IS MY MONEY. If it is being TAKEN FROM ME, I want it to go to causes I believe in and support, not vote buying and not some program that will wreck our current system.

#115 | Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-07 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

wrong.. It is not YOUR money it the property of the US GOVERNMENT. The only reason why it can be used to buy things is because collectively we say it is worth something and the rest of the world goes along agreeing. The system in place allows you to work productively so you can collect paper that you can give to other persons that also provide services.

That means, from all the people that I employ, who have money provided to them for health coverage even though I can't swing it for myself, FUCK YOU! Real people will be out of jobs now, not your stupid, anti-corporate, theoretical people; real fucking people. I work 14 hour days to take care of my employees. Now there will be less of them, providing the cunts in the Senate pass this bullshit. So send me your address, I'll send you a 40 year old, half retarded, dishwasher and her prolific family to live off of your dime while I continue to pay cash for my doctor visits and eat one meal a day at the restaurant because I'd like to be able to retire at some point.

now that it passed, can people actually read it?

Legio,
I call bullshit! You don't farm a god damn thing, unless it's gov subsidized corn or soy. In which case, you are a bigger health problem than Ronald McDonald himself.

Forgive them Founding Fathers for they know not the incalculable ignominies they are about to wrought upon your noble legacy of limited government

Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch at 2009-11-08 12:10 AM | Reply

It will be OKAY GAS really. I mean if we as a Nation can't take care of our lessers then how can we expect to declare that we are a Grand nation?? A Nation A State A City A Community A Neighborhood A Family is only as strong as how it takes care of it's weakest citizenry. That is the whole truth of the matter. Those who retard progress are relegated to the dung heap of Human History. That is the way it's always been. It is the way it ever shall be.

Larry

I'd like to be able to retire at some point.

#285 | Posted by ChezWegro

Why don't you emigrate? We don't need you greedy assholes and parasites that don't want to pay your dues to the club in which you're a member.

#266 | POSTED BY GIMME_A_SCOTCH AT 2009-11-08 12:10 AM | REPLY | FLAG: GIVEN EXPLICIT REJECTIONS BY CCHRIS, LISA, ETC., BUSY TROLLING ON OTHER BOARDS, IN SEARCH OF HIS ONLINE BRIDE

I suppose all the Teabaggers are quite preoccupied, crying into their pillows.

"That means, from all the people that I employ, who have money provided to them for health coverage even though I can't swing it for myself, FUCK YOU! Real people will be out of jobs now, not your stupid, anti-corporate, theoretical people; real fucking people. I work 14 hour days to take care of my employees. Now there will be less of them, providing the cunts in the Senate pass this bullshit. So send me your address, I'll send you a 40 year old, half retarded, dishwasher and her prolific family to live off of your dime while I continue to pay cash for my doctor visits and eat one meal a day at the restaurant because I'd like to be able to retire at some point."

It's hard to agree with you without saying Too Bad For You. I mean, I read that you're saying we shouldn't pay as individuals for the things that benefit us all. It is ironic that you are so upset by the prospect of universal healthcare because you can't afford to buy health insurance now.

Feels like 'Morning In America'. On to the Senate and the WH!

#291 | Posted by Zarathustra

Tea Party attendees are ill informed and not too bright, as this video aptly proves:

Why don't you emigrate? We don't need you greedy assholes and parasites that don't want to pay your dues to the club in which you're a member.
#289 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

That's precisely the point. It won't be long before there will be no one left to pay for this disaster.

Welcome to the USSA - United Socialist States of America.

I'm beginning to see the Darwinian aspect to this, how nations die from within. I never knew until recent years that I would have to live through it.

Didn't the House pass Cap N Trade? This health care bill has a long way to go before it becomes law. I know this is a mjor step, but the Cap N Trade bill is dead in the water.

Don't count your chickens before their hatched.

We are almost there. Too bad for you greedy pos republicans.

#297 | POSTED BY JACKASS AT 2009-11-08 07:16 AM | REPLY | FLAG: The Mind of a Thief

When a nation steals from itself, it's only a matter of time before there is no one left to steal from.

This bill doesn't mean a thing in the final analysis-- it'll ultimately not see the light of day--- it just gives cover to certain members of congress as it relates to their constituency. I'll tell you one thing, this really isn't about healthcare reform so much as it is about it being a TAX bill just as cap and trade was (which is dead). The money will be collected upfront and will be used for general funds instead of healthcare. You'll see taxes like you've never seen over the next 3 years and most of them will be through bills that purport to be for issues other then taxes. The middle class will be taxed much more even though "he who speaks with forked tongue" promised that it wouldn't happen.

Ray helping those in need isn't stealing you buffoon. Ray care to explain why you are still forced to work at 68??? Your financial judgement must suck. At 68 I'll be collecting a pension living on the beach.

It's all in the phrasing, JACK. I agree with RAY.

Stealing implies an illegal activity. The government just passes tax legislation, thus making confiscation of wealth perfectly legal.

Taking this concept to the Nth degree, would we all be better off simply working for the government and having it provide for us?

If not, why? And if not, where should the line be drawn - and by whom?

#297---Jackass, I notice your moniker is quite relevant as it relates to your often rambling and inane enigmatic expulsions of supercilious odiferousness

Ray helping those in need isn't stealing you buffoon. Ray care to explain why you are still forced to work at 68??? Your financial judgement must suck. At 68 I'll be collecting a pension living on the beach.
#300 | POSTED BY JACKASS

Why I still work: high taxes and a bad divorce.

I am fully in support of volunteer charity. Stolen goods are not charity; they are plundered booty, distributed according to the self interests of the plunderer.

There won't be any pensions by the time you are old enough to collect. Trust me. I know that for a fact. No nation ever got wealthy by stealing from itself.

#300----"Ray helping those in need"--- the irony is that this administration and congress (if they have their way) will actually create more of "those in need" with the unintended consequences of their policies. Those that pay the taxes will dwindle and the level of poverty along with those in the struggling category will only increase.

IS MY MONEY.

God how I love it when bullshit like this gets bandied about.

I'll tell you one thing, this really isn't about healthcare reform so much as it is about it being a TAX bill just as cap and trade was (which is dead).

Yes. The feds are getting close to a funding deficit on SS and Medicare, and need a new source of revenue to keep their Ponzi Schemes going. It's about power. They don't give a rat's ass about "helping the needy."

Those that pay the taxes will dwindle and the level of poverty along with those in the struggling category will only increase.
#304 | POSTED BY MATSOP

"Why do Liberals hate America?"

"Cause liberals believe in freedom and justice for all, and not just the teabaggers?"

Liberals have always been picked on and beaten down. They see themself as the 125 lb weakling and they are grouping together to DESTROY the greatest nation (of modern times) on this earth. They hate people that take care of themselves,think for themselves and don't believe BIG GOVERNMENT is the answer to all problems. They want everyone to be as angry as them.

Another Saturday Night Special....and Pelosi is anti-gun...talk about hypocrisy.

Time to stock up on Army field medicine manuals so we can take care of a few things ourselves..

With SS and Medicare unfunded liabilities somewhere from $80 trillion to over $100 trillion, it's insane to compound the liabilities. You should by now how Ponzi Schemes end. If you don't, you will - the hard way.

#37 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-11-07 05:38 PM

How is it that repugs do everything in their power to bankrupt the US govt and it's programs.....then claim the govt and it's programs don't work, etc?

>>>
Over the last 25 years, Congress has "borrowed" (stolen) $2.2 Trillion from the Social Security Trust Fund. Not one penny has ever been repaid. This year (2008), Congress will "borrow" an additional $90 Billion from the Social Security Trust Fund - that is $171,000 every minute of every day.

President Bush has stated that "All that's left in the Social Security Trust is a cabinet full of IOU's" (June 3, 2005, The New York Times).

A Washington Post Poll, February 10, 2005, found that 90% of the American people know that a reason "the Social Security program faces financial difficulties" is that "Money in the Social Security Trust Fund is being spent on programs other than Social Security."

in his book, The Looting of Social Security, (2004, Carroll and Graf Publishers), Allan Smith, PH. D., explains why the IOU's in the Social Security Trust Fund are worthless. Simply put NO money has EVER been placed in the Social Security Trust Fund. Therefore, there is No money that can be withdrawn - it is simply an accounting gimmick.

It is time for Congress to pass Legislation to stop the "borrowing" (stealing) from the Social Security Trust Fund.

Why don't you emigrate? We don't need you greedy assholes and parasites that don't want to pay your dues to the club in which you're a member.

#289 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Now I see the light! I should have never expected to be able to retire, that makes me a greedy asshole and parasite. Or is it that I give people jobs that makes me the bad guy? How many people do you employ nulli?

One nice thing about it. The Republicans will probably have the numbers required to repeal this horrific act and override the veto after 2010.

I am especially fond of the pay for insurance of go to jail option. It is the one good part of the bill. The people that don't pay federal income tax anyway will finally have to pay for SOMETHING . Anyone want to bet that they are exempted again? What about the illegals? Does someone owe Joe Wilson an apology?

Good luck with that! Fortunately, I doubt they have the votes in the Senate to get anywhere.

#306---"Yes. The feds are"---BINGO!

How many people do you employ nulli?

It's funny to see the words 'nulli' and 'employ' in the same sentence -- in any context. The only person dull employs is the local drug dealer.

"The Republicans will probably have the numbers required to repeal this horrific act and override the veto after 2010."

Now that's funny!

Also hidden in the bill is a return to income tax bracket creep-- when all those naive youngsters that voted for the Obummer figure this one out (if they have the capacity to) they'll probably realize they didn't expect that kind of change-- everyone else was supposed to pay their dues but me?

#312 | Posted by A_Citizen

It takes a 2/3 majority of the voting members of both houses of Congress to override a presidential veto. That means, most likely, something on the order of 289-290 votes in the House and 67 in the Senate. I leave it to you to explain how you get the numbers that allow for what you're envisioning to actually occur.

This "healthcare bill" is subterfuge for a general fund huge TAX BILL-- it's a masquerade for increasing taxes--- it's funny that "DOC" and like ilk think it's a healthcare bill --- pretty soon when they realize it isn't they'll all say they knew it wasn't and then carte blanche support it because they love and believe in higher taxes---what a naive bunch of posters.

#317--- "It takes a 2/3 majority"--- after 2012 a presidential veto shouldn't be an issue.

This is straight up socialism. The federal gov't will be writing IOU's....just like Nancy's state does.

This "healthcare bill" is subterfuge for a general fund huge TAX BILL-- it's a masquerade for increasing taxes--- it's funny that "DOC" and like ilk think it's a healthcare bill --- pretty soon when they realize it isn't they'll all say they knew it wasn't and then carte blanche support it because they love and believe in higher taxes---what a naive bunch of posters.

Yes. They harbor a fantasy that government is a benevolent institution when all history shows it to be the polar opposite.

I wouldn't need health insurance if these idiots in Washington didn't make me sick."

Time to rent a cheap room in a slum in the district of one of the congressmen who voted for this, just long enough so I can change my voter registration and be able to vote against them next year.

Doc,

The entire House is up every two years. But that shouldn't trouble you...after all this bill was HUGELY popular. I am sure that as the details of what is in the 2000 page disaster leak out it will only become more popular. remember 39 dems voted with the Republicans because the bill was so popular.

the Senate may be more of a trick, only 1/3 of them are up for election. I suppose it will depend on how many of this third are Dems.

The Republicans are doing a great job of branding this bill and marrying Pelogosi and her dark master to this bill. The Republicans can run a single issue campaign..."I promise to stop this bill and save our health care system." They will be able to run against Pelogosi and Obama bin lying nationwide.

They need to play the statement regarding this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again.

Yes. They harbor a fantasy that government is a benevolent institution when all history shows it to be the polar opposite.

----------

Don't drive on the roads, call the fire department, or bathe then imbecile.

This is straight up socialism. The federal gov't will be writing IOU's....just like Nancy's state does.

#320 | POSTED BY ACLUSUX AT 2009-11-08 09:05 AM |

Yeah, let's return to the neoconservative ideology when reagan/bush41 QUADTRUPLED the national debt and lilaWol/hallichainy left a debt of over 10 trillion on Jan 20, 2009

And btw, what do you have against the US Constitution and Bill of Rights?

"the Senate may be more of a trick, only 1/3 of them are up for election. I suppose it will depend on how many of this third are Dems."

wrong.. It is not YOUR money it the property of the US GOVERNMENT.

Lego,

The only way you are a farmer saying something like that is if you are farming in Russia! I have never met a farmer that thinks the fruit of their labor belongs to the government. (I am one myself - on a part time basis.) Do you also think that the land you farm on is the property of the government? After all, when you die, it will be taxed to the point that it will have to be sold. But don't bitch. It is really the PEOPLE's LAND...we are just letting you work on it for a while.

Incidentally, is there a farm exemption in this bill? Are you going to have to provide insurance to all of your family that works on the farm with you? That will cut into those profits a bit. Don't worry about that though....those aren't your profits anyway.

"They need to play the statement regarding this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again."

Oh, right, the Fear Card.
What? Again?
That'll work.
Like an exploding cigar.
Do it.
Please.

this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again.

#324 | POSTED BY A_CITIZEN AT 2009-11-08 09:39 AM

A greater threat than allowing 911 to occur?

A greater threat than borrowing BILLIONS from Saudi Arabia, Japan, Taiwan, and Commie China to give tax breaks to the richest 1% and wage unnecessary invasions/occupations.

A greater threat than the 10 trillion debt neocon policies left us with in Jan 09?

Think on this: This bill will be returning some tax money to actual American working people who are in dire need of help thanks to the failed repug policies, as opposed to windfall tax breaks for those who don't need it and no bids to war/oil profiteering corps who care little about Americans....

this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again.

Right... and I'm sure your cock is two feet long too.

this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again.

Right... and I'm sure your cock is two feet long too.

#325 | POSTED BY SHAWN AT 2009-11-08 09:41 AM | REPLY | FLAG: Mentally Retarded

Right... and I'm sure your cock is two feet long too.
#331 | POSTED BY ZOMBIEHUNTER

Only a cocksucker would know that.

"They harbor a fantasy that government is a benevolent institution when all history shows it to be the polar opposite."

I wonder how many trillions of dollars of capitalist commerce the government generated by building the interstate highway system. Got any idea, "libertarian"?

Only a cocksucker would know that.

Oh man, you really got me. Pat yourself on the back. Maybe learn how to argue intelligently while you're at it.

They need to play the statement regarding this bill being a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack over and over again.
#324 | Posted by A_Citizen

Holy shit! I just chipped a tooth on my bagel and splashed latte all over my laptop. This is grrrrrrrrreat! Here's the rough script:

SCREEN IMAGE: Young mother and baby, visting with physician.

VOICE OVER: Imogene Coca and her baby Jethro were able to have Jethro's hairlip fixed, his cerebal palsy cured, and his teeny weeny little baby heart mended, in spite of Congressman Bad Ol' Republican voting to deny the little tyke and his mom what they needed. Here's how our elected representative, Congressman Bad Ol' Republican, described the bill he voted against, the one that saved Jethro's mom and gave Jethro a chance at achieving the American Dream...

IMAGE OF CONGRESSMAN BAD OL' REPUBLICAN FILLS SCREEN: "...a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack..."

SCREEN IMAGE: A passenger jet flies across a sky superimposed over the face of Osama Bin Laden and into a WTC tower, explodes, fiery jet fuel cascading through the air, streaming through the shattered building.

IMAGE OF CONGRESSMAN BAD OL' REPUBLICAN FILLS SCREEN: "...a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack..."

CUT TO: Another plane filies across the Bin Laden sky into the WTC south tower with similar results

IMAGE OF CONGRESSMAN BAD OL' REPUBLICAN FILLS SCREEN: "...a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack..."

CUT TO: Image of Lil' Jethro, gurgling in his mom's arms.

VOICE OVER: Really, Congressman Bad Ol' Republican?

IMAGE OF CONGRESSMAN BAD OL' REPUBLICAN FILLS SCREEN: "...a greater threat to our national well-being than any terrorist attack..."

VOICE OVER: Don't you think it's about time you got your priorities straight, Congressman?

Yeah! Over and over and over and over and over again! Hey, when I get my toof fixed and my computer repaired, is there anything you'd like? A box of ceegars? A bike?
~Rahm

Woke,

"A greater threat than allowing 911 to occur?" I accept that is true if you accept that Obama bin lying allowed the attack at Ft. Hood to occur.

"A greater threat than borrowing BILLIONS from Saudi Arabia, Japan, Taiwan, and Commie China to give tax breaks to the richest 1% and wage unnecessary invasions/occupations." First, cutting taxes has empirically increased tax revenue and benefited us all. If the lowest 50% pay ZERO income tax, and the richest 1% pay the VAST MAJORITY of the income tax. When you cut taxes, who do you think gets the tax cut? As to the bleating about the "unnecessary war", we fundamentally disagree about that. The only reason I would not have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan would have been because I eliminated the threat located there with nuclear force. Invasion was more humanitarian.

"A greater threat than the 10 trillion debt neocon policies left us with in Jan 09?" Noecon...neocon....Wow. At least now I know how deep your intellectual thimble is. So the NEOCOM solution is to continue to run up the debt maybe by seeing if you can double it in the next four years. Are you doing that because you think that you are entitled to $10 trillion dollars also? Are we going to be better off if you continue spending? If you believe that is true, I would advise you not to pursue a career as a credit counsellor.

Doc,

I was actually thinking of images of the MILLIONS of people that are going to DIE when they don't get health care. (We can borrow those images from the dem archive.) We then show the cemetery as we discuss how the dem bill will fuck up our health care system. Fade to image of Osama Bin Laden "He only killed 2,000 Americans. Morph image to Obama Bin Lying: "He will kill millions" Replay millions of faces from Dem archives.

Forth, he can't argue, so he either cuts and pastes, or resorts to ad hominems. His inability to argue ...

Posted by Ray

FLAG: Mentally Retarded

#333 | Posted by Ray

Only a cocksucker would know that.

#334 | Posted by Ray

I wonder how many trillions of dollars of capitalist commerce the government generated by building the interstate highway system. Got any idea, "libertarian"?
#335 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Every time I write about government going off the deep end, brainless assholes like this bring up roads, police and fire when I haven't argued for the abolition of government.

If only government would limit itself to what it is suited for, I wouldn't be complaiing. But no! It has to fuck up the market economy by taking over sectors better suited for the market. Now it's killed the capital markets, spreading poverty in its wake.

A greater threat than the 10 trillion debt neocon policies left us with in Jan 09?

53 Trillion. And Counting.

Why do you suddenly care about deficits? Democrats said that Cheney said that Reagan proved; Deficits don't matter.

All I want is a simple, straight-forward explanation of how Government intends to pay for it.

I was actually thinking of images of the MILLIONS of people that are going to DIE when they don't get health care. (We can borrow those images from the dem archive.) We then show the cemetery as we discuss how the dem bill will fuck up our health care system. Fade to image of Osama Bin Laden "He only killed 2,000 Americans. Morph image to Obama Bin Lying: "He will kill millions" Replay millions of faces from Dem archives.
#339 | Posted by A_Citizen

If I were a churchgoer I'd light up several boxes of candles and chant prayers round-the-clock that anyone would be so tone deaf that they'd actually do something so stunningly Rovian in its blatant disregard of the truth and so Three Stoogian in its attempt at seriousness.

Oh man, you really got me. Pat yourself on the back. Maybe learn how to argue intelligently while you're at it.
#336 | POSTED BY ZOMBIEHUNTER

I expect the same from you when we argue about disease and disease prevention. But I won't get it.

All you have to do is click on my name and you'll get a page full of intelligent argument on this thread. No point in repeating myself.

Every time I write about government going off the deep end, brainless assholes like this bring up roads, police and fire when I haven't argued for the abolition of government.

Well that's because being a libertarian is the exact same thing as being an anarchist.

Look, it says it right here in the dictionary.

libertarian (lĭb'ər-tr'ē-ən)
n. 1.One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.

2.One who believes in free will.

an⋅ar⋅chist  /ˈnərkɪst/
Pronunciation [an-er-kist]
noun 1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom.

I mean, seriously. You're college educated. Those are totally the same thing, man. Moder8 is right. Liberatarians are Anarchists!

All you have to do is click on my name and you'll get a page full of intelligent argument on this thread. No point in repeating myself.

#344 | POSTED BY RAY AT 2009-11-08 10:19 AM

All your stupidity and failures are well documented.

All your stupidity and failures are well documented.

How are you able to post and work the deep fryer at the same time?

#340 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2009-11-08 10:13 AM | REPLY | FLAG: Ignores everything I wrote on this thread.

I knew he was obsessed with me. But to the point where he saves stuff I wrote days ago? That's sick.

All your stupidity and failures are well documented.
#346 | POSTED BY JACKASS

Name one? Make my day!

"libertarian (lĭb'ər-tr'ē-ən)
n. 1.One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state."

That's a definition for American style "libertarianism" only, i.e., rightwing libertarianism.

The original libertarians were, and still are in the rest of the world, left-wingers, anti-state AND anti-capitalist. American "libertarians" are really propertarians.

Doc,

You contend that the advertisement is not true?

There are three contentions:

1. Obama bin lying and Pelogosi support this bill
2. Millions of people are going to die if they don't get health care (or so the dems say)
3. If the bill fucks up our system, the health care will not work, causing the same problem faced in 2. only much worse since the fucked up system will not work for anyone.

There is no disregard for the truth there. unless #2 is wrong. I have thought that it was false for some time, but if that is false there is ABSOLUTELY no justification for the bill.

As to your light hearted take on the matter....I guarantee that you would be howling from the roof tops if some add like this were aired.

"Why I still work: high taxes and a bad divorce."

Failed marriage and the fact you can't afford taxes. I have lived in a more heavily taxed state most of my life and I don't whine all day like you.

Nulli,

Come up from the basement, your mom needs to use her laptop.

I knew he was obsessed with me. But to the point where he saves stuff I wrote days ago? That's sick.

#348 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-08 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag: Moron doesn't realize you can click on his name to see his post history

I mean, seriously. You're college educated. Those are totally the same thing, man. Moder8 is right. Liberatarians are Anarchists!
#345 | POSTED BY AXIOM

Since when does minimum government equal no government? By your's and Moder8's logic, Thomas Jefferson was an anarchist and the Constitution is an anarchist manifesto. I'm not sure the both of you made it through grade school.

#354 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Moron. It was on the second page, written two days ago. You had to remember what you were looking for.

#355 | Posted by Ray

If you weren't such a humorless fuck with a mind as imaginative as a calculator, you would've comprehended that Axiom was being sarcastic.

Failed marriage and the fact you can't afford taxes. I have lived in a more heavily taxed state most of my life and I don't whine all day like you.
#352 | POSTED BY JACKASS

You're more of a fool than me.

It's not true I can't afford taxes. It's what's left after taxes. So I will happily accept my monthly SS checks until the money runs out.

A

No sense in arguing with a sick mind, eh? That Obama derangement syndrome must be severe.

Did lilaWol/hallichainy CAUSE the 911 attacks? No, they just funded and supported the fk who heads the org that took responsibility for it and ignored all the warnings from every US intell/law enforcement agency for 8 months.

Did lilaWol cause katrina? No, he just ignored it for 5 days and had appointed a horse trader/repug crony to head FEMA

Pretending that our own potus is the enemy, as they did with Clinton and Carter, seems to be a way of life for repugs, while ignoring the actual incompetence of their own heroes.

#357 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

If the same post came from you, it wouldn't have been sarcastic or meant to humor.

"libertarian (lĭb'ər-tr'ē-ən)
n. 1.One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state."

That's a definition for American style "libertarianism" only, i.e., rightwing libertarianism.

The original libertarians were, and still are in the rest of the world, left-wingers, anti-state AND anti-capitalist. American "libertarians" are really propertarians.

True libertarians lend a valuable voice to our political discourse. Most self-described libertarians are fundamentalists or ultraconservative moonbats. The libertarian party has devolved into a sideshow, unfortunately.

"True libertarians lend a valuable voice to our political discourse. Most self-described libertarians are fundamentalists or ultraconservative moonbats."

"True libertarians"

Whatever that means. The U.S. Libertarian party represents "true American libertarianism", i.e., ultraconservatism moonbatism.

It would be nice to have a "true libertarian" party, i.e., a leftwing anarchist party.

Woke,

"Did lilaWol/hallichainy CAUSE the 911 attacks? No, they just funded and supported the fk who heads the org that took responsibility for it and ignored all the warnings from every US intell/law enforcement agency for 8 months."

Did little Black O CAUSE a fellow muslim to attack American Soldiers on American Soil? No, he just knew about it for six months and did nothing about it.

Did lilaWol cause katrina? No, he just ignored it for 5 days and had appointed a horse trader/repug crony to head FEMA

Did Little Black O drop what he was doing and go to Ft. Hood to visit the Injured and console the survivors? No. He was busy being teabagged in Washington by Pelogosi and the other Dems. Don't worry....The greatest president in the 21st century has ALREADY BEEN to Ft. Hood to take care of that problem. You know, he didn't even need a photo op like your boy needed at Dover. True class. Can't get that in duh hood!

(Note, you are not the only one who can smear a politician's name. Wanna keep playing. Your boy is like herpes..you felt good when you were getting him and he turns out to be the gift that keeps on giving....LOL. Worst president ever! Highest unemployment in 20 years and the stimulus has only just begun! Wait until that massive hiring that takes place if this disastrous bill becomes law.

Legio,
I call bullshit! You don't farm a god damn thing, unless it's gov subsidized corn or soy. In which case, you are a bigger health problem than Ronald McDonald himself.

#287 | Posted by ChezWegro

Its called organic beef cattle asshole..I also do lumber and organic chickens as well as turkeys and raw honey.

Welcome to the USSA - United Socialist States of America.

I'm beginning to see the Darwinian aspect to this, how nations die from within. I never knew until recent years that I would have to live through it.

#295 | Posted by Ray

absolute horseshit..Sweden is calling you Ray. Oh wait they are Socialist too with a much higher standard of living.

If that's the truth I apologize. You're fighting the good fight. I'm still suspect of anyone claiming to be a farmer while supporting government intrusion. Considering what USDA regulation has done to small/family farmers, all the farmers I know want nothing to do with gov healthcare.

Hell,
My wife has her own "Victory Garden" going...raising organic this and that.

Though not all "organic" stuff is good...after all, poison ivy is all organic and natural....though sumac does make a nice lemonade...

absolute horseshit..Sweden is calling you Ray. Oh wait they are Socialist too with a much higher standard of living.
#365 | POSTED BY LEGIO

You need to study the history of fallen empires.

Socialism is a system of wealth confiscation. Capitalism is a system of wealth creation. I don't know much about the economics of Sweden, but I assure, their economics has to favor capitalism on balance. At minimum, I'm fairly sure Sweden is an oil producing nation.

This is going to be a very pyrrhic victory. To say that a lot of political capital was spent is a mild understatement. The benefits will be negligible as well, because the Senate will not pass a bill like this. Give it some time-this too shall pass...

let's hope it too won't pass....

Like thieves in the night once again....

Considering what USDA regulation has done to small/family farmers, all the farmers I know want nothing to do with gov healthcare.

#366 | Posted by ChezWegro at 2009-11-08 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag

You mean the USDA insisting on the quality of food that is put on the tables of American children and families, or the free money for not growing anything? I would say the only farmers you know are either cretins, or figments of your imagination. Farmers need health insurance also, and if they are independant farmers---the government health care system will either lower their cost of health care, or allow them to continue with the plan they have in place. What are your "farmers" complaining about?

#368 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-08 11:59 AM | Reply | Flag: Insists on talking out his ass

There is nothing socialistic about the government health care system. It won't have any effect on the plan you have in place. That alone kills your "socialist" charge.

Fact of the matter is that this bill, albeit with slight changes, will also pass the Senate. And then be signed into law by President Obama. Changing healthcare in America forever. For the benefit of the poor and the marginalized.
For those of you who don't like it, leave. I'm sure you will be happier in places that don't have such "socialist" policies, such as Saudi Arabia and Rwanda.

Hey mod,

How about we do this a different way. If you can't pay your way to live here, move on. You could live like a king in some Latin American Countries. I would be pleased to spend tax dollars on such a national improvement. Then close the borders and return to the mantra of Ellis Island. Gotta be disease free and have a trade or no admittance!

There, I have saved money, cut unemployment, increased the tax base, and decreased the drain on public programs. Now that is progress you can believe in!

Bob, I'm clearly talking about all of the cheese farmers on the moon.
Seriously, you of all people using words like "figments of your imagination"? The USDA has helped to destroy sustainable farming practices to benefit mono-culture and feedlot style megafarms, making our food considerably less safe. 1000 cow hamburgers and E. Coli spinach anyone?

Bob, I'm clearly talking about all of the cheese farmers on the moon.

You think there are cheese farmers on the moon? Got a link?

Seriously, you of all people using words like "figments of your imagination"?

You talk about cheese farmers on the moon and question me talking about "figments of imagination"?

The USDA has helped to destroy sustainable farming practices to benefit mono-culture and feedlot style megafarms, making our food considerably less safe. 1000 cow hamburgers and E. Coli spinach anyone?

Yes, the news is full of E.Coli being spread across the nation--ooops--no, it isn't. How long have you been out of the asylum?

#375 | Posted by ChezWegro at 2009-11-08 12:54 PM | Reply | Flag

Fact of the matter is that this bill, albeit with slight changes, will also pass the Senate.

I Highly Doubt it.....

And if it does the 2010 mid terms will be a absolute total beat down for the Dems.
.

There is nothing socialistic about the government health care system. It won't have any effect on the plan you have in place. That alone kills your "socialist" charge.
#372 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

You're as stupid as I've long known you to be. Any form is interference in market activities has the effect of socialization. It has no basis in the Constitution, as if you cared.

The long term plan is to regulate the insurance companies out of business. Then there will be one game in town: full socialized medicine.

In case you missed it, my post at #137 proves that YOU are the asshole! Heath insurance profits were 2% last year.

#373 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-11-08 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

#374 | Posted by A_Citizen at 2009-11-08 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

No need for anyone to move to another country. Just split this country along the lines of the Civil War, and everyone is happy. Conservatives have the South(Including Texas!!! OOOOOHHH), and Liberals the North. The South never really was part of America anyway. The South never embraced the American concepts of freedom, or liberty and justice for all--they have held America back from becoming the nation the founders envisioned.

Of course there are cheese farmers on the moon, WTF do you think your "smokestacks" are for? Jesus, you're both crazy and retarded!

A

The difference between YOU and I, repugs and dems?

After 911, 90% of Americans rallied behind lilaWol/hallichainy, even though their incompetence allowed the attack to occur.

Until they invaded occupied a country that didn't attack us and ignored the victims of katrina for 5 days, we stayed behind them.

Yet, you and the repugs continually are calling for Obama to fail, for the usa to be attacked again, and not supporting a potus who inherited these failures, during a time of war and economic crisis.

As during Clinton, who was in office barely a month when WTC93 attack occurred, we can count on the party over country repugs to continue smearing and bashing our own potus for the world and our enemies to see...../

When fascism comes to the US, it will be carrying a bible and wrapped in a flag.

Sinclair Lewis

2008

How did your predictions turn out in 06 and 08?

nuff said, eh?

You're as stupid as I've long known you to be.

Coming from such a little mind, I consider that a compliment.

Any form is interference in market activities has the effect of socialization. It has no basis in the Constitution, as if you cared.

You mean like anti-trust laws? You don't know what socialism means, as anyone can tell who has read any of your posts. Congress makes the laws---that's in the Constitution.

The long term plan is to regulate the insurance companies out of business.

If only that were true--insurance companies do nothing to better the health care of their clients. They are parasites on the American economy and bloat health care costs.

Then there will be one game in town: full socialized medicine.

You mean like very other industrialised nation on the planet? The nations that laugh at us for our antiquated means of dispersing health care to our citizens? I would welcome such a change. Work for the two country concept if you disagree.

In case you missed it, my post at #137 proves that YOU are the asshole! Heath insurance profits were 2% last year.

Woke,

not supporting a potus....during a time of war and economic crisis.

Where have you been for the last eight years. Your talking points are so old they have mold on them. These talking points were recited daily, not only by anonymous posters, but the MSM and you have the temerity to tell me I need to support your boy?

I see you continue to dodge the inaction of your boy with regards to Ft. Hood, so I must conclude you have only reached the intellectual level of regurgitation, as opposed to assimilation or synthesis, so there is no need to address the things I have already mentioned.

Sinclair was wrong....he was carrying a Koran...when not hoisting Lincoln's Bible.

my fella 'merikans.......we's skrewed!!

this pile of toilet paper (used) will go thru hairys gang like stuff thru a goose.....why read something you don't give a damn about.....

never forget,
politicians are scum
politicians are scum
politicians are scum

kwestions?????? didn't think so....

Of course there are cheese farmers on the moon, WTF do you think your "smokestacks" are for? Jesus, you're both crazy and retarded!

As for the "smokestack" there is only one so far, not plural---but, I have said many times it is simply called a smokestack because that is what it looks like--what would YOU call it?

Classic Butthead Bob.

The public option / single pay system / government funded IS MY MONEY. If it is being TAKEN FROM ME, I want it to go to causes I believe in and support
How about you move to a country full of dumbasses, so you feel at home.
#129 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

verses

The South never really was part of America anyway. The South never embraced the American concepts of freedom, or liberty and justice for all--they have held America back from becoming the nation the founders envisioned.
#379 | POSTED BY BUFFALO_BOB

On one hand, he believes in liberty and justice according to what the Founders envisioned (implies the Constitution). On the other hand, he believes everyone should be forced to pay for insurance, including himself - which totally violates the Constitution.

The dumber they are, the more they make an ass out of themselves. Then he has the nerve to call me an asshole. I look forward to the day when he moves and changes his handle to Birmingham Bob. But we will always know him affectionately as Butthead Bob.

On one hand, he believes in liberty and justice according to what the Founders envisioned (implies the Constitution). On the other hand, he believes everyone should be forced to pay for insurance, including himself - which totally violates the Constitution.

I don't believe everyone should be forced to pay for insurance, anymore than I believe everyone should be forced to pay for military protection from foreign inavaders. Facts are, not everyone will be forced to pay for insurance--those who have a plan they like now can keep it. Many of those plans are paid for by the employer. Many are paid for by the government. If people are too poor to pay, the government will subsidize them. The way it is now, those people would go to the emergency room, and boost the cost of insurance for all.

The dumber they are, the more they make an ass out of themselves.

You prove that with every post.

Then he has the nerve to call me an asshole.

I never called you an asshole little mind---I said you constantly talk out your ass. Again, you prove you just can't read and reason efficiently.

I look forward to the day when he moves and changes his handle to Birmingham Bob.

Again, you prove your failure at reading comprehension. Birmingham would be for conservatives--a part of the anti American South. Your home.

But we will always know him affectionately as Butthead Bob.

What "we" are you talking about little mind? Got a mouse in your pocket?

#387 | Posted by Ray at 2009-11-08 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag Talking out his ass as usual

"How did they explain the smudge suddenly got on the still picture? How did they explain the smudge changing shape on the still picture? How did they explain the smudge fading from the still picture? How did they explain the smudge suddenly disappearing from the still picture? How did they explain the smudge doing all this from a still picture in 1/6th second?"

The smudge isn't on the still, moron. It could be anything, a gnat, lint moved by the A/C kicking on, a stray pube, anything but a structure on the moon.

"If not for the USDA, the problem would be in the thousands, if not millions."

If not for the USDA, we wouldn't have feedlots with hundreds of thousands of cows ankle deep in their own shit, or acid-resistant E. Coli from feeding those cows impossibly cheap corn, or slaughter houses that can contaminate a half million pounds of meat at once(even with all of the chlorine, ammonia, and irradiation) then turn around and sell it as pre-cooked burgers.

Keep huffing that paint, Johnny.

I looked at that video very carefully, and even had it professionally enhanced. I can positively conclude that the smudge BBob refers to is positively, definitely, a smudge.

You're not getting out of this one, no matter how much you insult.

Facts are, not everyone will be forced to pay for insurance--those who have a plan they like now can keep it. Many of those plans are paid for by the employer. Many are paid for by the government. If people are too poor to pay, the government will subsidize them. The way it is now, those people would go to the emergency room, and boost the cost of insurance for all.

You have to be as dumb as nails to believe private insurance operates independent of regulation and price controls. At 2% operating profits, they're already at the edge of bankruptcy. Then they'll be another government bailout ala General Motors. It'll look private, but owned by the feds.

Rays problem is the same as most americans: he thinks that corporations aren't government.

He is wrong.

They enjoy government powers(reich to privacy, power to bribe the courts, etc) so we already have socialism without public input.

Rays problem is the same as most americans: he thinks that corporations aren't government.

Hey Shawn. Your problem is you're making up shit. I've long condemned the incestuous relationship between government and big business. You seem not to have noticed that I write from a free market perspective. In a real free market, consumers are sovereign. Not government, not business.

"You have to be as dumb as nails to believe private insurance operates independent of regulation and price controls. At 2% operating profits, they're already at the edge of bankruptcy.
#391 | Posted by Ray"

That's hilarious, Ray. Companies on the edge of bankruptcy don't pay their ceo's $24M/year. Or, if they do, bankruptcy is right where they belong.

That's hilarious, Ray. Companies on the edge of bankruptcy don't pay their ceo's $24M/year. Or, if they do, bankruptcy is right where they belong.

I'm not defending overpaid CEOs, so tell me. Of what percentage of that 2% are CEO's getting? In what form are they being paid? Who decides what they should be paid?

Massive Reshift in Power in 2010: The days of automatic re-election of the criminal mouthpieces are over.

(on the bubble):
House: 219 dems, 1 repub
Senate: TBD

Cross-reference voter names on upcoming major legislation (climate treaty; slew of gun ban legislation; no buy-no fly to anti-war dissenters; domestic terrorism [slew of bills similar to GB where Americans are assumed criminals until proven innocent];cybersecurity; AFTA treaty;etc)

The question now is how does it shift? It would be a tragedy to simply shift to Repubs. Their "alternative HC plan" is nearly as bad. By then America should be ready to throw out the fake 2 party system and accept a third party. This third party candidates had better wake up because most are same as the 2 parties.

In one year, when he's the only Republican re-elected to the House, he'll have that vote to thank for it. ;-).

LULZ!

O man - made my sides hurt.

Thanks Rcade!

Just in case anyone else lives in this hellhole (AKA ARIZONA) as well and cares:

Ann Kirkpatrick voted AYE
Ed Pastor voted AYE
Trent Franks voted NAY

>)

Why do we have to have this wonderful thread hijacked by Buffalo Bob with His fuckled up smudges???? What does some stupid photo have to do with this Historic Health Care Bill?? None whaqtsoever Buffalo Bob. It's bullshit when You first brought it up and now it's just plum bullshit now. Why can't You take Your garbage somewhere else???? I am tired of looking at it quite frankly.

Larry

Why do we have to have this wonderful thread hijacked by Buffalo Bob with His fuckled up smudges???? What does some stupid photo have to do with this Historic Health Care Bill?? None whaqtsoever Buffalo Bob. It's bullshit when You first brought it up and now it's just plum bullshit now. Why can't You take Your garbage somewhere else???? I am tired of looking at it quite frankly.

Larry

#401 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-11-08 06:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Fumduck

Again, fumbduck, I keep telling you, I not the one who keeps bringing the subject up. Morons with little minds who can't defend their points bring it up as a personal attack. Why not blame the person who brings the subjet up, or the people who perpetuate the subject after I respond once? That would be people like you. The only answer?---you are a fumbduck.

Ann Kirkpatrick voted AYE
Ed Pastor voted AYE
Trent Franks voted NAY